Thank you each for volunteering to be judges for this first
BeagleBoard software design contest. I'd like to give away a Rev C
prototype during the first full week in January, so we must act
quickly. The first prototypes are being tested out by Steve this week
and the USB EHCI port is working. It will still be March by the time
the boards are available to purchase, so I believe this will be a
special treat for whoever wins.
As we discussed on the IRC channel[1], I have created a wiki page to
collect our thoughts[2].
I believe our first steps are:
* All the judges are to review the rules, reply to this e-mail with
comments, and edit the rules for language where appropriate.
* All the judges are to add qualifying (required) and rating (desired)
criteria to the wishlist. Let's try to finish that by Saturday so
that we can begin to work on selecting the criteria. This is a place
for raw ideas.
I expect the #1 question from the overall community will be "when will
the contest be defined?" Let's work quickly to give the participants
as much time as possible to work on their projects.
Let's get the rules and criteria down first, then we can work on
logistics. Certainly creating entries at http://beagleboard.org/
project makes sense to me. We can possibly use the wiki, however, to
make it clear who has actually entered the contest. Hopefully write
protection isn't required and it will be enough to simply track who
made any changes.
Thanks for the participation from each of you!
Regards,
Jason
[1] http://www.beagleboard.org/irclogs/index.php?
date=2008-12-18#T18:40:58
[2] http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard/contest
>
> > As an alternative to the SD image, I think we should also allow for an
> > alternative entry format with tarballs + JFFS2 images + instructions
> > for
> > flashing into NAND. This would allow for entries that would use the
> > SD slot
> > as removeable media. The flip side is any image that fails to flash
> > with the
> > provided instructions would be a disqualification. ;)
>
> I'd like for the instructions to be something that someone with a
> Windows or Mac OS X host could follow, but I could be in the minority
> in this group on this thinking. Perhaps we should put both 'dd'
> options and instruction-based options in the wishlist and vote on each?
Either way. I just think it would be nice to be able to use the internal flash
in a project. The instructions should something along the lines of - copy
files onto flash card. Invoke U-boot incantations to flash it onto NAND. This
should be largely OS agnostic. The instructions would be the magic numbers
used for the nand write.
>
> > Addition item suggested for the desireable (I can add it if there
> > are no
> > objections) -
> > A working USB TV tuner. The one I know that works with Linux is the
> > original
> > Hauppauge HVR950. Only problem with this tuner (and possibly other
> > tuner) is
> > the OSI open source rule might be violated as this requires a
> > firmware file
> > that needs to be downloaded. The other complication here is this
> > unit is ATSC
> > which makes it North America-centeric.
>
> Put it on the wishlist and we'll approve/disapprove each of the items
> on the wishlist.
Updated wiki wishlist.
....snip....
>
> > As an alternative to the SD image, I think we should also allow for an
> > alternative entry format with tarballs + JFFS2 images + instructions
> > for
> > flashing into NAND. This would allow for entries that would use the
> > SD slot
> > as removeable media. The flip side is any image that fails to flash
> > with the
> > provided instructions would be a disqualification. ;)
>
> I'd like for the instructions to be something that someone with a
> Windows or Mac OS X host could follow, but I could be in the minority
> in this group on this thinking. Perhaps we should put both 'dd'
> options and instruction-based options in the wishlist and vote on each?
Either way. I just think it would be nice to be able to use the internal flash
in a project. The instructions should something along the lines of - copy
files onto flash card. Invoke U-boot incantations to flash it onto NAND. This
should be largely OS agnostic. The instructions would be the magic numbers
used for the nand write.
>
> > Addition item suggested for the desireable (I can add it if there
> > are no
> > objections) -
> > A working USB TV tuner. The one I know that works with Linux is the
> > original
> > Hauppauge HVR950. Only problem with this tuner (and possibly other
> > tuner) is
> > the OSI open source rule might be violated as this requires a
> > firmware file
> > that needs to be downloaded. The other complication here is this
> > unit is ATSC
> > which makes it North America-centeric.
>
> Put it on the wishlist and we'll approve/disapprove each of the items
> on the wishlist.
Updated wiki wishlist.
....snip....
> Koen, Steve, Dirk, Robert, Hunyue, and Mans,
>
> Thank you each for volunteering to be judges for this first
> BeagleBoard software design contest. I'd like to give away a Rev C
> prototype during the first full week in January, so we must act
> quickly. The first prototypes are being tested out by Steve this week
> and the USB EHCI port is working. It will still be March by the time
> the boards are available to purchase, so I believe this will be a
> special treat for whoever wins.
>
> As we discussed on the IRC channel[1], I have created a wiki page to
> collect our thoughts[2].
>
> I believe our first steps are:
> * All the judges are to review the rules, reply to this e-mail with
> comments, and edit the rules for language where appropriate.
> * All the judges are to add qualifying (required) and rating (desired)
> criteria to the wishlist. Let's try to finish that by Saturday so
> that we can begin to work on selecting the criteria. This is a place
> for raw ideas.
>
> I expect the #1 question from the overall community will be "when will
> the contest be defined?" Let's work quickly to give the participants
> as much time as possible to work on their projects.
I will be away from the Internet for most of the weekend. I'll catch
up with email as soon as I can.
> Let's get the rules and criteria down first, then we can work on
> logistics. Certainly creating entries at http://beagleboard.org/
> project makes sense to me. We can possibly use the wiki, however, to
> make it clear who has actually entered the contest. Hopefully write
> protection isn't required and it will be enough to simply track who
> made any changes.
What we have on the wiki right now can be broken down in three
categories:
1. Absolute requirements for validity of a submission.
2. Factors by which submissions will be judged.
3. Random project ideas.
The first two need to be made crystal-clear for obvious reasons, and
the second is particularly sketchy at the moment.
Some ideas to get contestants started is naturally good, but never
underestimate people's creativity.
Thinking about rating criteria, the most important to me in a context
like this are the "wow" factor and the overall quality of the
submission. Exactly what it does is less important in my view. I
would also like an emphasis on projects that allow the Beagle to
shine, not merely also-can type things.
--
Måns Rullgård
ma...@mansr.com
Instead of having a specific point system, the judges should merely
try to inform the contestants as well as possible via the wiki page[1]
of what things they'd like to see. Each judge will provide 10 votes
and the contestant with the most votes will win. For any tie-breaker
votes, judges will only get 1 vote. I'll appreciate your help in
updating the page to reflect answers to the questions asked to you
about the contest.
All, please post your entries on the wiki[1] and record the projects
on the BealgeBoard.org project page[2]. If you have any questions,
please reply to this e-mail.
Regards,
Jason
[1] http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard/contest
[2] http://beagleboard.org/project
>
> Mans, Steve, Dirk, Koen, Hunyue, Robert,
>
> Any thoughts on how/when to conclude this round? Then, perhaps we can
> have a project-of-the-month in the future?
Let's evaluate the current submissions after the weekend and decide on
a timeframe based on the outcome of the evaluations. Does that sound
good?
regards,
Koen
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>
I'm happy with that. I'll be looking for some sort of feedback from
each of the judges some time on Monday. I should be on IRC in the US
morning time.
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 3:18 AM, Hunyue Yau <ybe...@rehut.com> wrote:
> Appologies in advance if I sound a bit negative. I do not mean to discourage.
>
> The RT project looks interesting but it seems very ambitious. Would like to
> see more details. Stats on number of bugs found and the types of bugs would
> make more interesting to me.
>
I was not aware the project should be running already, in order to
enter the contest? If so, then please disregard mine.
I'm not sure if it's ambitious, at least it is a risky project
timewise; The real kernel work is already done by the -rt people and
previous releases have been tested in the community on ARM platforms,
no reason to see big problem except for yet hidden locking bugs in the
omap specific drivers. Maybe the kernel work is zero (!) in this
project, or very hard (tracking down proper use of locking can be
tempting.)
On another platform I only found and fixed one kernel bug so far:
http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/7/5/96
The project is mainly about creating a user land demonstration for
hard real-time, but I'm always eager to dive into the kernel code if I
can analyse where it breaks, and fix where I have the knowledge. The
aim would be 2.6.28, because that's where the -rt kernel is going
next. So it also depends on the omap kernel stuff being with 2.6.28.
Regards,
--
Leon
>
> Hello,
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 3:18 AM, Hunyue Yau <ybe...@rehut.com> wrote:
>> Appologies in advance if I sound a bit negative. I do not mean to
>> discourage.
>>
>> The RT project looks interesting but it seems very ambitious. Would
>> like to
>> see more details. Stats on number of bugs found and the types of
>> bugs would
>> make more interesting to me.
>>
> I was not aware the project should be running already, in order to
> enter the contest? If so, then please disregard mine.
I think it is not necessary for the project to be running in order to
enter, but it will
weigh heavily in the selection of a winning project. :)
>
>
> I'm not sure if it's ambitious, at least it is a risky project
> timewise; The real kernel work is already done by the -rt people and
> previous releases have been tested in the community on ARM platforms,
> no reason to see big problem except for yet hidden locking bugs in the
> omap specific drivers. Maybe the kernel work is zero (!) in this
> project, or very hard (tracking down proper use of locking can be
> tempting.)
>
> On another platform I only found and fixed one kernel bug so far:
> http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/7/5/96
>
> The project is mainly about creating a user land demonstration for
> hard real-time, but I'm always eager to dive into the kernel code if I
> can analyse where it breaks, and fix where I have the knowledge. The
> aim would be 2.6.28, because that's where the -rt kernel is going
> next. So it also depends on the omap kernel stuff being with 2.6.28.
>
> Regards,
> --
> Leon
Thanks for the entry. I expect we will judge the existing entries in
upcoming contests, so keeping your entry up-to-date will be helpful.
> I'm happy with that. I'll be looking for some sort of feedback from
> each of the judges some time on Monday. I should be on IRC in the US
> morning time.
Okay, fine.
Robert
Updated feedback -
Of all the entries these are the ones that, IMO, have enough progress,
info for this month:
QEMU (based on replies from the previous mail)
BeagleRC
Beagle Bot
Android
The other remaining one doesn't appear to have a lot of progress.
The Linux RT one is on the border. From the reply, it appears
it hasn't gone very far. (Context for this comment: I have worked
on a similar effort before and there are some classes of bugs
expected.). Look forward to seeing updates. Given that this is a
somewhat large project, I think the most reasonable way to evaluate
it is on the kinds of bugs fixed as that would reflect the testing
done on it and the overall progress.
From the 4 listed above:
I would rank them as -
1. BeagleRC
2. Beagle Bot
3. QEMU
4. Android
The Beagle bot and the BeagleRC projects are close. I would like to see
some more progress on the WebCam on the Beagle Bot. [See notes below.]
Both of these projects have a web page that could be taken as a demo
of the current state of things. I think this is what seperates them
from the others.
QEMU is nice and in the longer run might be great but it is a bit early
to tell. If it gets far enough along and the emulation is accurate enough,
it could be a nice test platform for some of the drivers (MUSB is the one
I am most interested in.)
The Beagle Android project as entered is not impressive because -
1. The is not much presented. Android itself is mature enough that there
are things to show. With a working keyboard, screen shots of things would
have been nice. Or at least a webpage text write up. I realize there is
limited time.
2. It does not distinguish itself from other "ports". I have done
work with the first preview of Android on another OMAP3 board and right now
it seems what is there is less then what was shown a many months ago. (Again,
this is from what is presented not what you may have.)
No offense intended with any of these comments.
Side notes not directly related to the contest -
It seems there are many people having problems with the gspca webcam driver.
Would there be an objection to or interest in me trying to gather these
reports to see if there is a pattern. My interest in this is simple; I have
tried 3 gspca cameras and they range from working to totally not enumerating.
If there is interest and no objections, I will send out a seperate mail.
>
>> I'm happy with that. I'll be looking for some sort of feedback from
>> each of the judges some time on Monday. I should be on IRC in the US
>> morning time.
>>
>
> Updated feedback -
> Of all the entries these are the ones that, IMO, have enough progress,
> info for this month:
> QEMU (based on replies from the previous mail)
> BeagleRC
> Beagle Bot
> Android
Since last week another project got added:
http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard/James
> The other remaining one doesn't appear to have a lot of progress.
>
> The Linux RT one is on the border. From the reply, it appears
> it hasn't gone very far. (Context for this comment: I have worked
> on a similar effort before and there are some classes of bugs
> expected.). Look forward to seeing updates. Given that this is a
> somewhat large project, I think the most reasonable way to evaluate
> it is on the kinds of bugs fixed as that would reflect the testing
> done on it and the overall progress.
>
> From the 4 listed above:
> I would rank them as -
> 1. BeagleRC
> 2. Beagle Bot
> 3. QEMU
> 4. Android
My ranking would be:
1) James
2) beaglebot
3) beaglerc
regards,
Koen
Minor clarification. I did see the readme. By webpage text write up, I
am referring to something with more content.
>
> 2. It does not distinguish itself from other "ports". I have done
> work with the first preview of Android on another OMAP3 board and right now
> it seems what is there is less then what was shown a many months ago. (Again,
> this is from what is presented not what you may have.)
>
> No offense intended with any of these comments.
--
Hunyue Yau
http://www.hy-research.com/
My list is:
1) beaglebot
2) beaglerc
3) qemu
Beaglebot takes first for the best overall combination of "wow
factor", quality/quantity of submission documentation, and actual
development progress.
Steve
> My ranking would be:
>
> 1) James
> 2) beaglebot
> 3) beaglerc
My would be
1. beaglebot
2. qemu3
3. USB Support in U-boot
about 3. i am quite unsure. Lets see.
Bye - Robert
1. BeagleBot
This has plenty of "wow", and it is well-documented. Videos show
the project is progressing well.
2. USB Support in U-boot
This could be useful when a serial port is not available, or simply
to reduce the amount of cables.
3. qemu-omap3
A good emulator can be very useful for low-level driver debugging,
so qemu support for omap3 would be welcome. The project seems to
be making progress even though a lot of work remains.
--
Måns Rullgård
ma...@mansr.com
>
> Jason Kridner <jkri...@beagleboard.org> writes:
>
>> On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:47 AM, Koen Kooi wrote:
>>>
>>> Op 2 jan 2009, om 18:42 heeft Jason Kridner het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mans, Steve, Dirk, Koen, Hunyue, Robert,
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts on how/when to conclude this round? Then, perhaps we
>>>> can
>>>> have a project-of-the-month in the future?
>>>
>>> Let's evaluate the current submissions after the weekend and decide
>>> on a timeframe based on the outcome of the evaluations. Does that
>>> sound good?
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Koen
>>
>> I'm happy with that. I'll be looking for some sort of feedback from
>> each of the judges some time on Monday. I should be on IRC in the US
>> morning time.
My feedback:
* qemu-omap3: Lots of interesting progress. Not complete, but already
useful.
Entry is complete. (1)
* openGPS: Not ready yet. Interesting project. Might be good entry
next month.
* BeagleConf: Not ready yet. Interesting project. Might be good
entry next month.
* BealgeRC: Needs a project entry. Somewhat simple compared to
BeagleBot,
but I still like this entry a lot as it is easier to reproduce.
* LinuxRT: Not ready yet. Interesting project. Might be good entry
next month.
* USB support in U-boot: Heard this is close, but haven't seen it.
Needs to be
updated quickly for consideration this month. Otherwise will be
considered
next month. (4)
* James: Demo page was interesting, but project still seems to be in a
very
early phase and not packaged up in a way consumable easy for Beagle
users
yet. I think it shows a lot of promise and could be a good entry
next month.
* BeagleBot: I like this one a lot. It is difficult to reproduce, but
the videos and
documentation are very good. (2)
* Beagledroid: May not be the best Android out there, but I believe
this is a
very strong entry. (3)
I believe Dirk is the only one to not have given some feedback yet on
the
entries. Hopefully the contestants have seen this feedback such that
they
can improve their entry in a way they see fit and to notify us all of
those
changes here on this list.
How long do we need to give for final project updates? Thursday night,
Friday morning, midnight UTC?
How long do we need to give for voting? Sunday night, Monday morning,
midnight UTC?
Then I can get an address and ship a board on Monday?
> How long do we need to give for final project updates? Thursday night,
> Friday morning, midnight UTC?
Friday afternoon. So all developers have a free weekend.
> How long do we need to give for voting? Sunday night, Monday morning,
> midnight UTC?
Monday morning so all judges can use they free weekend ;-)
> Then I can get an address and ship a board on Monday?
Sounds good.
Robert
> It seems there are many people having problems with the gspca webcam driver.
> Would there be an objection to or interest in me trying to gather these
> reports to see if there is a pattern. My interest in this is simple; I have
> tried 3 gspca cameras and they range from working to totally not enumerating.
> If there is interest and no objections, I will send out a seperate mail.
Definitely no objections from me as I'm very eager to get webcam working.
I just tried with 2.6.28-r1 kernel from OE with no success. Three cameras,
three failures. All of them enumerate perfectly but VIDIOCSYNC v4l1 ioctl
won't work with any of them. v4l1 to v4l2 transition layer is enabled at my
kernel config. I have not had any success with v4l2 applications, either.
Sometimes playing with camera also seems to kill my USB WLAN stixk (zd1211)
functionality resulting in usb i/o errors to the console.
> Hunyue Yau
> http://www.hy-research.com/
--
Antti Seppänen | PGP public key:
antti (á) hervanta.com | http://www.hervanta.com/~antti
OH3HMI
GSM +358-40-7540919
And now my my €.02
1a) QEMU
1b) BeagleBot
3) LinuxRT
4) U-Boot USB
QEMU and Bot are both at #1, but QEMU would be easier to demonstrate.
Dirk
Btw.: Anybody likes to add OpenOCD support? I added it as example but
had to remove it as I can't do it myself. I would rank it at #1, so if
you like to win, add it ;)
Agree.
Dirk