[HW] 12V Power -> Smoke on TPS2141

[HectorOron]

Hi !

I just got my brand new beagle,
1) I took my router power supply (12V) and plug it in, i see LEDS on
2) I made a serial cable
3) Plug the board to a 5V power supply
4) Watch the smoke coming out TPS2141

I have ordered some samples from TI to replace TPS2141, i also have
check in the schematics that 5V line is attached to TWL4030 VBUS
signal (USB) I hope did not get the thing broken.

First, i guess i have no warranty for such incident. Am i right?
Second, it would be useful for next revision of the board if you can
add a protection on Voltage Input, it won't increase much our budget,
i wouldn't mind to pay an extra buck and have not broken the board.

Kind Regards

[Gerald Coley]

So, as to protection, exactly how much voltage should it tolerate? 110VAC, 220VAC, 24VDC, etc. Can you provide a limit that you think will be acceptable? Any changes won't be made before the next revision which is after the next 7000 boards. The other question is the cost. We have worked to keep the cost down and anything we add will add cost. We have shipped 5000 boards and this is only the second instance of someone plugging in 12V to the board. It is hard to justify the added cost based on two people.

 

If the board can  be repaired it will be repaired free of charge. Just request an RMA.

 

Gerald

[Hector Oron]

Hi Gerald,

2009/3/17 Gerald Coley <ger...@beagleboard.org>:

> So, as to protection, exactly how much voltage should it tolerate? 110VAC,
> 220VAC, 24VDC, etc. Can you provide a limit that you think will be
> acceptable?

At least in my country common voltages of power supplies for consumer
electronics, with the size of the input power connector on the
beagleboard, are up to 12Vdc. So my wish is that beagleboard can be
protected up to twice that voltage, so 24Vdc would be my first
approximation.

> If the board can  be repaired it will be repaired free of charge. Just
> request an RMA.

I took off the TPS2141 device, so they won't take the board. :-/
I'll need to expend twice the money I already expend having to order
another board.

Thanks for taking this into account.

Kind Regards,
--
Héctor Orón

[Gerald Coley]

You should have gone the RMA route before taking the part off and been honest up front with what you had done. I would have had them send you a replacement board where the total cost to you would have only been time.

 

Gerald

[Frans Meulenbroeks]

Thinking of it:
some protection or tolerance would be nice as people need to provide
their own power brick and not all bricks are equally good so there is
always a chance that even with a brick labeled 5v there will be e.g.
5.2 v on the output. (and frankly speaking I just grabbed a 5v brick I
had lying around without really measuring the voltage)
I can also imagine publishing a small circuit that people can build
themselves to add protection, to deal e.g. with voltage fluctuations.

The other easily made error is using a brick with + and - reversed
(although maybe having + as center is the common scenario, not sure
about that).

Frans

[Arne Caspari]

I would not expect a devel board to be very tolerant about voltage but I would appreciate the beagle to be tolerant to an unregulated PSU if that would not add to much to the cost.


 /Arne

[Gerald Coley]

I will take all your inputs into consideration for the next version after the next version. We have already spun the board again for REV C3 for some minor fixes and 5000 boards are on order. So it will be a while before this issue can be addressed.

 

Gerald.

[John (USP)]

Oops, I think you messed up by mentioning a REV C3, as the obvious questions will be, what problems does the REV C3 board fix, and are the boards released March 31^st, REV C2 or REV C3? If they are REV C2, when will you release the REV C3 boards?

 

Regards,

 

<br

[Gerald Coley]

We added ground to the mounting holes and made them plated through. So, for those who are waiting for that feature, those will start shipping in late May or early June.

 

Gerald

[Hector Oron]

Hi Gerald,

> You should have gone the RMA route before taking the part off and been
> honest up front with what you had done. I would have had them send you a
> replacement board where the total cost to you would have only been time.

I did went through RMA, but after taking the part off. I have even be
honest to them telling that I took off the part, that is why I was
telling you, that a replacement was not posible. But, likely you are
proposing a deal, it would be OK if I get one board and you send me
two? I'll give my board back to SAT so they can fixe it or do what
ever they think. I still have hope processor is fine as I can heard
the burst audio tone and LED on.

Anycase, taking into account my voltage protection proposal it's been
more that what I expected, so /me nods you. Additionally i would
propose you to do a challenge among beagle community and see who is
the hacker that provides the most inexpensive efficient voltage
protection design for beagle board, which I would be glad to
contribute.

Kind regards,
Héctor Orón

--
Héctor Orón

[Gerald Coley]

I control the RMA team. I would have had them send you a replacement. I will not send you two boards. If you return the board as is, I will have them send you a replacement board upon receipt of the board you have.

 

Gerald

[liuez]

m30326334m624...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: [beagleboard] The recent status of USB HOST and OTG?
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Hi, There,

It has been reported that the USB bugs(HOST & EHCI) have been fixed up in Version C2 of beagleboard?
I wonder if there introduced some kind of new chips or just the improvement of TPS65930 driver?

Thanks for the reply

Liu Enn

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[Hector Oron]

2009/3/18 Gerald Coley <ger...@beagleboard.org>:

> I control the RMA team. I would have had them send you a replacement. I will
> not send you two boards. If you return the board as is, I will have them
> send you a replacement board upon receipt of the board you have.

Thanks Gerald, that's very kind. I'll send you my board to get a
replacement and i'll get another board from digikey too.

--
Héctor Orón

[Gerald Coley]

Wait to order the second board for a week or so. We are shipping out Rev C2 boards the end of the week to D/K. I don't exactly know when they will make them available, but at least you know that they have them in stock whne you order them.

 

Gerald 

[Gerald Coley]

The TPS65930 is not used on the EHCI port. The TWL4030 is used on the OTG port. The EHCI port uses the SMSC USB3322..

 

Gerald

 

2009/3/17 liuez <li...@embedinfo.com>

[Måns Rullgård]

Hector Oron <hecto...@gmail.com> writes:

> Anycase, taking into account my voltage protection proposal it's been
> more that what I expected, so /me nods you. Additionally i would
> propose you to do a challenge among beagle community and see who is
> the hacker that provides the most inexpensive efficient voltage
> protection design for beagle board, which I would be glad to
> contribute.

Here's my idea: http://thrashbarg.mansr.com/~mru/beagle_overvoltage.jpg

--
Måns Rullgård
ma...@mansr.com

[Gerald Coley]

Do have a datasheet and a cost?

 

Gerald

2009/3/17 Måns Rullgård <ma...@mansr.com>

[davidcb]

Someone would still manage to fry the Beagleboard.

David.

On Mar 17, 9:58 pm, Måns Rullgård <m...@mansr.com> wrote:

> m...@mansr.com

[Måns Rullgård]

davidcb <n2...@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Mar 17, 9:58 pm, Måns Rullgård <m...@mansr.com> wrote:
>> Hector Oron <hector.o...@gmail.com> writes:
>> > Anycase, taking into account my voltage protection proposal it's been
>> > more that what I expected, so /me nods you. Additionally i would
>> > propose you to do a challenge among beagle community and see who is
>> > the hacker that provides the most inexpensive efficient voltage
>> > protection design for beagle board, which I would be glad to
>> > contribute.
>>
>> Here's my idea:http://thrashbarg.mansr.com/~mru/beagle_overvoltage.jpg
>

> Someone would still manage to fry the Beagleboard.

Yes, you're right: http://thrashbarg.mansr.com/~mru/beagle_fried.jpg

--
Måns Rullgård
ma...@mansr.com

[David Batzle]

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, Måns Rullgård <ma...@mansr.com> wrote:

> From: Måns Rullgård <ma...@mansr.com>
> Subject: [beagleboard] Re: [HW] 12V Power -> Smoke on TPS2141

Yeah, I knew that was coming. hehehe
So now we know how the BGAs get soldered.

David.

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, Gerald Coley wrote:

> I will take all your inputs into consideration for the next version
> after the next version. We have already spun the board again for REV
> C3 for some minor fixes and 5000 boards are on order. So it will be
> a while before this issue can be addressed.

what does the above mean in terms of when C2 will be available from
digikey after it's done? immediately? a bit of a backlog? thanks.

rday

[Gerald Coley]

DigiKey will have 200 boards Monday and it takes a day to get them into the system. It is up to DK to determine when they are ready to ship them and what they do with current inventory of B7 boards.

 

Gerald

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009, Gerald Coley wrote:

> DigiKey will have 200 boards Monday and it takes a day to get them
> into the system. It is up to DK to determine when they are ready to
> ship them and what they do with current inventory of B7 boards.

from my just-completed conversation with DK, they have 111 remaining
B7 boards, which they claim they have to sell before they start to
sell the C2s. and they claim that have 3200 C2s coming in. make of
all that what you will.

rday

[Gerald Coley]

That does not surprise me.

 

Gerald

[Leon Woestenberg]

Hello,

Confirmed, this approach works. Tested with 100 kV.

Back tot the original question: would replacing the TPS2141 help in most cases*?

Regards
--
Leon

*intentionally not a pun

[Gerald Coley]

The TPS2141 is there for the USB. It is a slow turn on USB switch to make sure you do not trip the USB power source in the PC by turning on slowly. It is described in the System reference Manual. 

 

One solution to this issue is to add another regulator in front of the DC input to handle 8V to 24V, meaning a 5V supply will no longer work. The additional cost will be around $1 per board and there will be an additional cost penalty to pay for the larger voltage power source of 8V to 24V.

 

I will look at his, as I have already stated, for the next version, that is many many many months away. In the mean time, everyone will need to read the manual, read the 5VDC printed on the board, and pay attention to what they plug into the board, something that only 2-3 people out of 5000 have had a hard time doing.

 

Gerald

[Thanh Tran]

It's not that hard actually.  My bench has couple of plugs: 5v, 12v, 48v for the devices I work on. They all have the same type of plugs. All these plugs would fit the socket on beagle board with no problem. I never plug the 48v  into any 12v or 5v EVM, but I did accidentally plug a 12v into 5v board, and I was sure I got the right connection and was wondering why it stopped working.  :p.

[Vladimir Pantelic]

Thanh Tran wrote:
> It's not that hard actually. My bench has couple of plugs: 5v, 12v, 48v

that's when you start putting little labels on them, stating the voltage.

[Koen Kooi]

Op 20 mrt 2009, om 09:22 heeft Vladimir Pantelic het volgende
geschreven:

I have HUGE FAT labels on them since little labels don't work for me :)

regards,

Koen

[Frans Meulenbroeks]

> >> Here's my idea:http://thrashbarg.mansr.com/~mru/beagle_overvoltage.jpg
>
> Confirmed, this approach works. Tested with 100 kV.

Somehow I doubt that you really tested this with 100 kV :-)

Actually I think the EMI will fry the board if there is a 100kV hit
near it.
But if you want to sponsor a board we might be able to convince the
high voltage lab at TUE to do this test.
I'll be more than happy to attend that experiment :-)

Frans

[Gerald Coley]

I agree that it is possible. All I am saying is that you will need to pay attention. If we came up with a special connector and power supply to make this impossible, it would be more expensive. We have shipped over 5000 boards and to my knowledge, only 3 have been returned for this reason fro repair.  We could ship power supplies with the boards for an extra $5 to $6, but that would not prevent you from using your own power supply. So, while not impossible and is indeed very easy to do, it is not that prevalent of an event.

 

I guess I should put a statement in the SRM that if the board is exposed to high voltage the warranty is voided and we will not repaitr it as we do today. In fact, I like that idea. I think I will make the change. We are looking at putting  a big label on the connector to help people pay attention as well.

 

Gerald

[Gerald Coley]

We will make it as big as possible.

 

Gerald

[Thanh Tran]

I put some big tape on the power cord to mark the voltage. But I was worried the ESD guy could come get me as they don't want any paper or plastic within 12" ... Can we just power the beagle board through the USB port alone? Can Beagle still act as USB host in that case? We can also replace the power connector with smaller one? --- On Fri, 3/20/09, Gerald Coley <ger...@beagleboard.org> wrote:

From: Gerald Coley <ger...@beagleboard.org> Subject: [beagleboard] Re: [HW] 12V Power -> Smoke on TPS2141 To: beagl...@googlegroups.com

[Gerald Coley]

If you use the OTG as the USB host it must provide power. It cannot get power from the same port that it needs to source power. You could get a USB to DC cable and power the Beagle from a HUB and then use the OTG to connect back into another hub port to fulfill the host function into the hub.

 

The power connector will stay the same size because it is the most economical one I could find.. If we did that, everyone would scream that we changed it and it won't work with the supply the already bought for their first Beagle! 

 

Gerald

[Vladimir Pantelic]

Thanh Tran wrote:
> I put some big tape on the power cord to mark the voltage. But I was
> worried the ESD guy could come get me as they don't want any paper or
> plastic within 12" ...

err, what?

[Alessandro Corrêa Mendes]

Not yet found the device drivers for beagleboard, anyone know somewhere
that might seek?

I have a USB->Ehetnet device. The model is USB-400 and use Angstrom Linux.

tks

Alessandro

[Frantisek Dufka]

Gerald Coley wrote:
> In the mean time, everyone will need to
> read the manual, read the 5VDC printed on the board, and pay attention
> to what they plug into the board, something that only 2-3 people out of
> 5000 have had a hard time doing.

BTW, today I noticed blurbs about beagleboard at
http://beagleboard.org/hardware

"Expansion capability and power options to satisfy your imagination:
...
Power via typical USB chargers for cell phones from your laptop, from an
automobile adapter, from batteries, or even from a solar backpack"

This really does not give a hint about need of well regulated 5V PSU.
Those mobile phone chargers have in reality anything but 5V even when
labeled as such. One example is Nokia AC-4E labeled 5V but giving 6V or
more. You can even buy 5V to 6V usb convereters since some (Nokia)
phones do not charge with 5V alone.

Frantisek

[Gerald Coley]

No new chips, we just moved to another port on the OMAP3. This is
described in the System Reference Manual.

The EHCI is not part of the PMIC. We do not use the TPS65930, but the
TPS65950 and it is for the OTG port. The EHCI port uses the USB3326 from
SMSC.

Gerald