Tibet en de Spelen
Ghingis Khan
Jacques Rogge, voorzitter van het IOC, krijgt het stilaan op zijn heupen en
heeft verklaard dat het nu maar eens gedaan moet zijn met de wereldwijde
protesten tegen China. Wat dat betreft, werd hij in Noord-Korea op zijn
wenken bediend: geen spoor van protest bij de doortocht van de Olympische
fakkel. Maar Noord-Korea is dan ook geen democratie, maar een communistische
dictatuur die nauwe banden heeft met Peking.
Intussen lekte uit dat het Internationaal Olympisch Comité ernstig rekening
houdt met zware ongeregeldheden en vele doden als de fakkel straks door
Tibet trekt en naar de top van de Mount Everest wordt gebracht. Maar een
verzoek aan Peking om het parcours van de fakkeltocht te wijzigen, komt er
niet. Als dat maar goed afloopt. Komt het straks tot een bloedbad, dan
kleeft er bloed aan de Olympische ringen en mag Jacques Rogge dat mee op
zijn conto schrijven.
In Tibet zelf werden de eerste opgepakte demonstranten al veroordeeld. 17
verdachten kregen straffen van 3 jaar tot levenslang. En dat nadat velen
zich na een Chinees ultimatum vrijwillig hadden gemeld bij de politie. De
zware straffen geven aan dat Peking schoon schip wil maken. Dat voorspelt
weinig goeds. Als de Olympische Spelen straks gedaan zijn en de aandacht
voor Tibet wegebt, zal de Chinese ijzeren vuist keihard toeslaan. "De
Olympische Spelen zullen voor een kentering zorgen in China", blijft Jacques
Rogge bij hoog en bij laag volhouden. Zou hij dat zelf geloven?
--
Ghingis Khan
http://www.lotuschild.org
http://www.khadag.org
http://www.snowleopard.org
Fikkie
Wat een onzin.
Mensen die OS en haar gedachtegoed zo misbruiken vind ik
verachterlijk.
En als de Tibetanen daadwerkelijk de vlam aanvallen dan verdienen ze
niet beter als de kogel.
Hypocrisie noem ik dit ja.
Rudyard Kipling
"Ghingis Khan" <ghingi...@mail.co.kr> schreef in bericht
news:0216f2ac$0$16357$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> Tibet en de Spelen
Voor alle eenvoudige zielen die de onzin van de Dalai Lama aanhangers zonder
meer geloven of die denken dat ze in Beijing per definitie ongelijk hebben:
Eerst dit lezen:
http://www.chinesecitypros.org/2008/04/13/give-china-a-break/
en dan met je mond vol tanden staan...
Via de belgische media ga je dit niet vernemen, die zetten hun China-bashing
onverminderd verder.
Links vindt dat China een paradijs is voor kapitalististen waar arbeiders
uitgebuit worden.
Rechts vindt dat China nog steeds een communistische dictatuur is.
De waarheid, ach, wie maalt daar nu om ?
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Geng Zhou on 13 Apr 2008 09:15 pm
Please Give China a Break - Uncovering the Complex Truth behind Popular
Myths about China and Tibet
Please Give China a Break
- Uncovering the Complex Truth behind Popular Myths about China and Tibet
Author: Yipei Liu
Issues around China and Tibet have taken centre stage in some recent
political debate. While different people may hold different views have
different interpretations, reduction of the complex
ethno-socio-economic-political dynamic behind the development of the recent
turmoil into simplistic terms like “Chinese suppression” does not do
justice to reality. Popular myths often contribute to the distortion of
public views. This is particularly true when it comes to issues that are
distant from daily public life. The purpose of this document is to provide
its readers with some much overlooked, yet well documented, “arguments from
the other side” that are rarely broadcasted on the supposedly objective and
impartial media in the Western world. While some reader may not be entirely
convinced by the evidence and arguments provided in this document, by
demonstration the mere existence of such evidence and arguments, we hope to
convey the fact that the issues around Tibet – and China in general – are,
at least, not as “black-and-white” as commonly assumed. At this point in
time, please put the emotions aside and give China a break. After all, even
if the Chinese government did not deserve a perfect Olympics, the Chinese
people - who worked so hard to raise their country from its post-revolution
ruins to the current state of prosperity - unarguably do.
‘Your will is like the gathering of clouds,
your call like thunder;
From these comes timely rain
to nourish selfless the earth!’[1]
From a Hymn by the 14th Dalai Lama to Mao Tse-tung in 1954, three years
after “the Chinese invasion”
Ancient history
Myth 1: Tibet has never been politically subordinate to China. The
relationship between the Tibetan protector, the Dalai Lama, and the Chinese
ruler was a priest-patron one.
Truth: Well documented historical records suggest otherwise:
1 During the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368 AD), several state bureaus and
offices were set up in Beijing for the purpose of administering Tibetan
affairs. The most prominent ones were
a) Zongzhi Yuan (总制院): Later renamed Xuanzhengyuan (宣政院), which
dealt with Tibetan and Buddhist affairs
b) Three subordinate offices under Zongzhi Yuan called Xuanzhengshi Si
(宣慰使司), in charge of military and civil administrations of Tibetan areas
Some might, however, argue that during the Yuan period, China and Tibet were
two separate countries unified under the Mongol Empire. The collapse of the
Mongol, therefore, would mark the end of the China-Tibet unity. However….
2 When the Ming Dynasty replaced Yuan in China, the basic intuition
for the handling of Tibetan affairs remained unchanged. It is, however, true
that Ming’s control over Tibet was much weaker than that of Yuan.
3 Qing, or the Manchu empire, replaced Ming in the 17th century. In
the 57th year of the Qianlong period (1792), after Qing troops put down the
Gurkha incursion into Tibet, a set of regulations called Regulations for
Resolving Tibetan (Matters) (西藏善后章程) were promulgated. These
regulations established the equal rank of the amban with the Dalai Lama and
the Panchen Lama, and his direct authority to control political military,
religious, financial communications, and transport matters[2].
Society
Myth 2: Prior to the communist takeover, Tibet was a “society dedicated to
peace and harmony” where the people “enjoyed freedom and content”[3].
Truth: Tibet before the 1950s was a backward feudalist society where secular
landlords and theocratic lamas controlled majority of, if not all, the
arable land. Serfs which constituted a major part of Tibetan population
prior to the communist takeover lived miserable lives and often suffered
inhuman treatment from their overlords[4].
1 The overlords had no responsibility for the serf’s maintenance and
no direct interest in his or her survival
2 As in a slave system, serfs were bound to their masters,
guaranteeing a fixed permanent workforce that could neither organise nor
strike not freely depart
3 “Pretty serf girls were usually taken by the owners as house
servants and used as they wished”[5]
4 The serfs were taxed upon getting married, taxed for the birth of
each child and for every death in the family. They were taxed for planting a
tree in their yard and for keeping animals. They were taxed for religious
festivals and for public dancing and drumming, for being sent to prison and
upon being released. Those who could not find work were taxed for being
unemployed, and if they travelled to another village in search for work,
they paid a passage tax
5 When serfs could not pay, the monasteries lend them money at 20-50%
interest. Debtors who could not meet their obligations risked being cast
into slavery (apparently life could be worse than it already is!)
6 Punishments inflicted upon thieves and runaway or resistant serfs
include
a) Eye gouging
b) Pulling out of tongues
c) Hamstringing
d) Amputation
7 Why do people put up with such life? Because of religion. The poor
and afflicted were taught that they had brought their troubles upon
themselves because of their wicked ways in previous lives. Hence they had to
accept the misery of their present existence as a karmic atonement and in
anticipation that their lot would improve in their next life
More recent history
Myth 3: The 1959 riot was Tibetan people’s uprising against communist
oppression
Truth: the 1959 riot was a military rebellion staged by Tibetan aristocrats.
Part of the agreement between the PRC government and the Tibetan local
government at the time was to maintain the privileges of the overlords and
lamas, and only to implement reforms (abolishing of serfdom, redistribution
of land etc) gradually. Having observed reforms that had been carried out in
parts of the outer-Tibet – part of Tibet that has not been Dalai Lama’s
jurisdiction since early 18 century when Emperor Yongzheng of Qing Dynasty
incorporated parts of the Tibetan Plateau into adjacent Chinese provinces
such as Qinghai and Sichuan (a purely administrative move with no military
atrocity) – where land, parts of it, were distributed to the serfs, the
aristocracy in Tibet started to worry about the possible loss of their
privileges. With the encouragement and support of the United States (many of
the leaders of the gorilla fighting force were secretly trained by the CIA
prior to the riot[6]), the aristocrats organised a series of riots in
various parts of Tibet, started in 1956 and culminating in 1959. According
to a Western commentator “Many lamas and lay members of the elite and much
of the Tibetan army joined the uprising, but the main the populace did not,
assuring its failure”[7]
Myth 4: Chinese government committed genocide in Tibet. More than 1.2
million Tibetans died as a result of Chinese occupation
Truth: Historical population statistics suggest otherwise.
Tibetan population in 1953 were 1.274 million. The figure grew to 2.196
million in 1990[8]. If the exile government’s claim were true, the
population growth without Chinese occupation would have had been 2.7%.
Putting this figure into context, Tibetan population between 1953 and 1990
would have had been way higher than that of India (2.2%) – a country with
more habitable environment - and of Former Soviet Russia (1.0%) – a country
where 5-Child mothers are considered as heroines. It is important to note
the following facts
1 The economic and social situations in Tibet in the 50s and 60s
reflect the overall condition in China as a whole.
2 Periods of economic and social crisis were the result of
well-intentioned, but poorly designed - and even-more-poorly implemented -
policies
3 Demolishing of monasteries did not occur at the beginning of the
communist takeover. It occurred mainly during the cultural revolution – a
period of collective madness during which cultural institutions of all kinds
were destroyed by the uneducated and ill-encouraged masses, and not
something even remotely close to genocide
4 Family planning policy – more popularly, and incorrectly, known as
one-child policy – does not apply as strictly to ethnic minority regions.
People in these regions are encouraged to have only one child (for economic
reasons), but are allowed to have two. Having more than two children, while
still allowed, is generally not encouraged. This however, is due largely to
economic rather than political considerations. Mao Zedong, the much hated
Chinese dictator, in fact opposed the idea of family planning for his entire
life. The scholar who proposed the idea, Ma Yingchu, was jailed for
promoting “reactionary thoughts”.
Myth 5: The 14th Dalai Lama is a noble saint, the practice of whom closely
represents the authentic doctrine of Buddhism
Truth: It is ironic that the image of Dalai Lama has ascended in the past 50
years from the figurehead of a corrupt and exploitive regime to something
close to a saint.
1 The 14th Dalai Lama has very strong tie with his family members –
behaviour that is not strongly encouraged in Buddhism since practicing
Buddhists are supposed to devote their lives to the Buddhist religion and
the enlightenment of the suffering masses. More importantly, the family
members of Dalai Lama, one time or another, served some very important role
in his government-in-exile[9].
a) One elder brother, Gyalo Thondop, served as Chairman of the Kashag,
the minister of security, and the Prime Minister of the government-in-exile.
He also headed the CIA backed Tibetan contra movement in the 1960s
b) A sister-in-law served as head of the government-in-exile’s
planning council and its Department of Health
c) A younger sister served as health and education minister and her
husband served as head of the government-in-exile’s department of
Information and International Relations
d) The list goes on
2 Dalai Lama consumes meat, which is in strong odds with Buddhist
doctrine. He claims that he does so on a doctor’s advice following a liver
complication from hepatitis. No scientific evidence, however, suggests that
meat consumption is good for damaged liver
3 Most importantly, The 14th Dalai Lama did little to actually
improve the lives of Tibetan people. As will be explained in length in the
coming section, rather than fostering mutual understanding and peace, the
Dalai Lama have been contributed significantly to the destablisation of
Tibetan society through spreading hatred and nationalistic ideology. Here’s
a story
There was an old man, who tells his supporters that his country was invaded
by an alien force. His people were killed; culture ruined; tradition lost;
and religion threatened. His supporters got angry. Some of them got so angry
they started protesting around the world. A small group of the extremely
argy ones decided to wage attacks on the alien “invaders”, and set their
houses on fire…. This man was Sheikh Ahmed Yasin. We call him, and his
angry supporters, terrorists. We condemn what they do and refute what they
say. Yasin was eventually assassinated by targeted Israeli missile strike in
2004
The same story goes for another old man. Yet we call him a holy man, and his
angry believer freedom fighter…
The Recent Turmoil
Myth 6: The recent uprising in Tibet was the result of accumulating
resentment against Chinese suppression
Truth: Such statement grossly understates the complexity of the
socio-political reality in Tibet.
Different groups of Tibetans have very different feelings towards Han
Chinese and the Chinese government
1 Buddhist monks: Before the Communist takeover in 1950, monks /
lamas constitutes the privileged class in Tibetan society, owning massive
areas of land and a large number of serfs, who, as we discussed before, were
treated practically like slaves. The land reform that took place in the
1950s and, more extensively, the 1960s (after the failed military rebellion
in 1959) distributed much of the land that was previously owned by the
monasteries to the poor serfs and peasant, causing the economic and social
power of the monasteries, as well as the wealth of the monks, to shrink.
Later in the 1960, during the Cultural Revolution, former peasants and serfs
are encouraged to condemn their former “exploitive masters”. Under popular
pressure, some were even forced to involve in productive activities –
something unthinkable to the monks when Tibet was under Dalai Lama’s
feudalist rule. It is therefore fair to say that the resentment among
Tibetan lamas against the so-called oppressive Chinese rule has more to do
with the loss of economic and political privileges than the loss of
religious freedom. Religious activities are monitored closely in Tibet for
the close tie between religion and politics - and in turn social stability,
as is clear from the recent turmoil – rather than for the suppression of
religion itself.
2 Ordinary Tibetans: The dynamics in play among ordinary Tibetans is
very different from those among Buddhist monks. In the early years of the
Communist rule, most ordinary Tibetan liked and supported the Chinese
government (see Celder and Celder, The Timely Rain). Even as of today, some
older generation Tibetans feel grateful for the Communist government and
hang Mao’s portray spontaneously in their living rooms. The resentment
among ordinary Tibetans against the Han Chinese is a more recent phenomenon,
and is most visible amongst the younger generation Tibetans who had no
experience of the brutal lamaist rule and are dissatisfied with their
economic situation, the making of which is a complex one.
After the “Opening and Reform” in 1979, the Chinese government invested
heavily in the development of Tibet. Wealthy provinces and cities – such as
Guangdong, Jiangsu, Zhejiang and Shanghai - are encouraged to provide
financial aid to found infrastructural projects. Given the special political
sensitivity of the area – created partly by the continuous campaigning of
the Dalai Lama’s government-in-exile and the deep-rooted resentment among
the Tibetan monks – the central government also implemented social welfare
programs in Tibet that are nowhere seen in other parts of China (Tibet is
the only province-level administrative region that receive central
government subsidy of over 100% local government expenditure: total
subsidies between 2002 and 2007 amount to over US$12bn. Although still low
compared to Western standard, Tibetans farmers and herdsmen enjoy the
highest medical coverage among Chinese; and their children are eligible for
free education up to senior high school level – a rarity in China after the
free market economic reform - with food and accommodation provided).
Welfare subsidies, however, do not create wealth on its own for the local
Tibetans. To some extent, they in fact dampened the incentive among ordinary
Tibetans to seek employment or explore new business opportunities created by
economic reform and development. At the same time, business-savvy Hans (the
ethnic group that constitutes over 90% of China’s population) and Huis
(Chinese Muslims) – either spontaneous migrant in search for new
wealth-generating opportunities which are increasingly rare in the inner
heart land or descendants of the construction workers, who helped develop
the basic infrastructures in Tibet – was quick to settle in to the new
market place and became the wealthier class in Tibet. As have been witnessed
in so many other places around the world, economically dominant ethnic
minorities are rarely loved and welcomed: British in Zimbabwe, Ibos in
Nigeria, Lebanese in West Africa, Jews in Russia, Croats in Yugoslavia,
Chinese in Indonesia and Whites in Bolivia, to name but a few. In most, if
not all, of these cases, ethnic hatred fuelled by market-created economic
inequality erupted into brutal violence, which not only led to the killing
and abuse of the market-dominant minorities, but also left deep chronic
wound on local economic and social establishments (See Amy Chua, The World
on Fire for detail). The recent Tibetan riot is little more than another
example of such kind of ethnic conflict outburst. Rather than the violation
of human rights, relative poverty and the dissatisfaction with minority
dominance of local economy are the major causes of resentment among ordinary
Tibetans. This would explain why, along side the Han Chinese, Hui (Muslim)
minorities, who dominates Lhasa’s meat trade, are also targeted and
attacked.
Despite being a preacher of peace, love, and compassion, the words and deeds
of the 14th Dalai Lama intensifies the hatred felt among Tibetans from both
groups. The provocative terms used in his speeches and statements such as
“gross violation of human rights”, “cultural genocide”, and “second
class citizens” – none of which, as discussed above, is true – helped
radical members of the ordinary Tibetans group to rationalise their sense of
dissatisfaction beyond simple economic reasons. At the same time, his
continuous campaigning around the world, which has received growing support
from Western communities, has provided Tibetan monks with the illusive hope
of a returning Lamaist state, and encouraged them to reject the reality of a
modern world where the power of religion would inevitably subside.
In summary, the growing resentment among Tibetans against Chinese and the
Chinese government is a result of the interplay among three
cross-reinforcing factors: grievances for the loss of past privileges,
dissatisfaction with minority dominance of local economy, and provocative
actions taken by the government-in-exile. While some may disagree with this
interpretation, the simplistic reduction of the complex dynamics that is
shaping today’s Tibetan society into a two-word phrase – “Chinese
suppression” – would not do full justice to the entangled reality. And for
supposedly knowledgeable and informed parties to subscribe to such
simplification, one could not help but wonder whether it is a mere sign of
ignorance or in fact something more sinister.
Myth 7: Chinese government’s reluctance to engage in “meaningful
dialogue” with the Dalai Lama is the key obstacle in reaching a
constructive solution to the Tibet issue
Since the 1970, dialogue between the Communist government and the Tibetan
government-in-exile took place in a number of occasions. While the Dalai
Lama has altered his tone from “full independence” to “real autonomy”,
the actual demands, claims and standpoints remained largely unchanged. These
include
1 Tibet is historically and culturally an independent country, and
was never a part of China before 1950 (The Chinese government suspects that
this may lay the backdrop for complete independence in the future)
2 The Chinese government must remove all military presence in
Tibetan. The political status of Tibet should be submitted to an
international conference for multilateral discussion.
3 The power to conduct diplomatic affairs is to be vested in the
autonomous government of Tibet
4 The boundary between autonomous Tibet and the Chinese heartland is
to be redefined. The new administrative region of Tibet – i.e. Greater
Tibet - would include all Tibetan-dominated areas in China. (This
effectively would remark the Tibetan border that has been in place for some
400 years. 1/5 of Xinjiang province, 2/3 of Gansu Province, 2/3 of Sichuan
Province, 1/2 Yunan Province, and the entire Qinghai Province would become
parts of the new Tibet, making it a state of over 2.4m square kilometres in
area, covering a quarter of China’s total land span)
5 Removal of non-Tibetan residence from Greater Tibet (As discussed
above, Greater Tibet would encompass large areas of land in neighbouring
provinces, all of which have had mixed ethnic presence for centuries)
Should the Chinese government agree to all these terms – something the
Tibetan government-in-exile has refused to compromise for years despite the
shift in their official rhetoric – China would lose its sovereignty over
not only Tibet, but also a large area of land on bordering and adjacent to
the Tibetan Plateau. More worryingly, implementing item 5 on the list would
not only incur massive resettlement costs, but also lead to severe ethnical
conflict similar to what India and Pakistan experienced after their
separation in 1947, if not reminiscent to the disastrous impasse between
Israel and Palestine. No responsible government in the world would agree to
such unreasonable terms. And the unwillingness of the Tibetan
government-in-exile to make material compromise, therefore, is the real
obstacle to making constructive progress in resolving the Tibet issue – an
issue that would not have reached to its current state had the Tibetan
government-in-exile been less provocative in the pursuing of its political
goals.
Myth 8: The Dalai Lama and his government-in-exile would make Tibet a better
place for the Tibetans
Truth: The following facts suggest otherwise
1 The Dalai Lama was an ignorant ruler who overlooked the pain from
which his people was suffering prior to the Communist takeover
2 He supported a military riot organised by the aristocrats in fear
of losing their exploitive rights
3 His government-in-exile shows all signs of incompetence and
dysfunction
a) Nepotism
b) Lack of transparency in every possible aspect
c) Using lies and ambiguity (with regard to the true situation in
Tibet) to justify its legitimacy
And he and his government have no proven track record of proper
statesmanship
4 Rather than raising the living standard of the Tibetan people, the
expressed priority of his government is to “preserve Tibetan culture and
heritage” under a “democratic” framework. This is almost stereotypical
ethno-nationalism in disguise – something proven to be disruptive to
economic and social development (the latter are the things the Tibetans
really need – which the Communist government has been trying very hard to
deliver – although they do not necessarily realise, and may never realise
until they actually lose them. But as history shows, rather than rational
rethinking and self-reassessment, when democracy fails, people start
pointing fingers and seeking scapegoats – behaviours that are not very
constructive to say the least)
Conclusion
1 Despite all the myths and enigma around Tibetan Buddhism and the
man himself, the 14th Dalai Lama – as the head of a government and an
advocator of a certain political view - is above all a politician, and
should be treated in the same way as any other politician. Statements like
“more than a million people died” and “99% of the population is very very
unhappy” would not be accepted without rigorous verification had it come
from any other politician. Same standard of scrutiny should be applied to
the 14th Dalai Lama and his government-in-exile
2 The Chinese government is not evil, despite its authoritarian
nature. Like many other national governments in the developing world, it is
inexperienced and incompetent due largely to the country’s relative
primitiveness of its social development. It is not in the Chinese government’s interest to violate human rights, and it would be naïve, if not
discriminative, to think that a government would harm its people just
because it is Communist. Cases of severe violation of human rights, such as
torture and harassment of prisoners, occur in China due primarily to
corruption at local level administration and imperfections in the
institutional infrastructure for the enforcement of law. They share more
similarity with Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, than with Nazi Germany or
Stalinist USSR
3 China is a great country with extremely friendly people and a
highly embracive culture. Since “the opening and reform” in 1979, China
has not only lifted hundred millions of people out of poverty, but also
contributed enormously to the global economy by providing a low cost
manufacturing base. The prevalent anti-China sentiment is an unfortunate
result of the continuous interplay among socio-ideological stigma against
Communist states, selective bias of Western media towards negative coverage,
and provocation of ignorant / ill-intentioned politicians in pursuit of
public support (the famous Brad Pitt film based on a story with dubious
historic accounts written by a former Nazi officer also helped). Solving
China’s problems – include but not limited to the Tibet issue - requires
constructive solutions based on good understanding of local reality, rather
than simple-minded campaigns founded around ill-conceived judgement.
Ultimately, what this world needs is cooperation fostered by dialogue; not
confrontation reinforced by prejudice.
4 Finally, China is a DEVELOPING COUNTRY with developing country’s
problems. These problems are not unique to China, but are magnified and
complicated by the country’s enormous size and population. While the
Chinese government might be excessively cautious about stability, China is
not an Orwellian Big-Brother-type state. To get a real sense of people’s
life in China (or Tibet) today, there is no substitute to visiting the
country and seeing for oneself. Welcome to China!
For comments, questions and discussion, please e-mail
givechi...@chinesecitypros.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] Gelder and Gelder, The Timely Rain: Travel in new Tibet
[2] E. Sperling, The Tibet China conflict: History and Polemics
[3] Dalai La ma quoted in Donald Lopez Jr., Prisoners of Shangri-la: Tibetan
Buddhism and the West
[4] M. Parenti, Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth
[5] L. Strong, Tibetan Interviews
[6] K. Conboy and J. Morrson, The CIA’s Secrete Ware in Tibet
[7] H. Deane, The Cold Was in Tibet
[8] J. Banister, China’s Changing Population; Beijing Review, Population of
China’s Ethnic Nationalities
[9] M. Backman, Behind Dalai Lama’s Holy Cloak
Fikkie
> "Ghingis Khan" <ghingis_k...@mail.co.kr> schreef in berichtnews:0216f2ac$0$16357$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> jurisdiction since early 18 century when Emperor Yongzheng of Qing Dynasty
> incorporated parts of the Tibetan Plateau into adjacent Chinese provinces
> such as Qinghai and Sichuan (a purely administrative move with no military
> aristocracy in Tibet started to worry about the possible loss of their
> privileges. With the encouragement and support of the United States (many of
> the leaders of the gorilla fighting force were secretly trained by the CIA
> prior to the riot[6]), the aristocrats organised a series of riots in
> various parts of Tibet, started in 1956 and culminating in 1959. According
> to a Western commentator "Many lamas and lay members of the elite and much
> of the Tibetan army joined the uprising, but the main the populace did not,
> assuring its failure"[7]
>
> Myth 4: Chinese government committed genocide in Tibet. More than 1.2
> million Tibetans died as a result of Chinese occupation
> Truth: Historical population statistics suggest otherwise.
> Tibetan population in 1953 were 1.274 million. The figure grew to 2.196
> million in 1990[8]. If the exile government's claim were true, the
> population growth without Chinese occupation would have had been 2.7%.
> Putting this figure into context, Tibetan population between 1953 and 1990
> more habitable environment - and of Former Soviet Russia (1.0%) - a country
> where 5-Child mothers are considered as heroines. It is important to note
> the following facts
>
> 1 The economic and social situations in Tibet in the 50s and 60s
> reflect the overall condition in China as a whole.
>
> 2 Periods of economic and social crisis were the result of
> well-intentioned, but poorly designed - and even-more-poorly implemented -
> policies
>
> 3 Demolishing of monasteries did not occur at the beginning of the
> period of collective madness during which cultural institutions of all kinds
> were destroyed by the uneducated and ill-encouraged masses, and not
> something even remotely close to genocide
>
> one-child policy - does not apply as strictly to ethnic minority regions.
> People in these regions are encouraged to have only one child (for economic
> reasons), but are allowed to have two. Having more than two children, while
> still allowed, is generally not encouraged. This however, is due largely to
> economic rather than political considerations. Mao Zedong, the much hated
> Chinese dictator, in fact opposed the idea of family planning for his entire
> life. The scholar who proposed the idea, Ma Yingchu, was jailed for
> promoting "reactionary thoughts".
>
>
> meer lezen >>
Ach, VRT teletekst staat weer vol met anti-China propaganda.
De tandprotheses made in China zouden giftig zijn ...
En dan volgende :
PLEEGT CHINA ELEKTRONISCHE SPIONAGE?
---------------------------------------
De Belgische Staatsveiligheid heeft
ontdekt dat er aanvallen zijn geweest
op belangrijke computers in ons land.
Volgens justitieminister Jo Vandeurzen
(CD&V) leidt het spoor naar China.
De daders zouden e-mailberichten sturen
met onzichtbare software, waarmee
gegevens uit het computersysteem van de
geadresseerde opgehaald worden.
Volgens Vandeurzen zijn er geen harde
bewijzen, maar is dat ook moeilijk te
controleren. Eerder hebben Duitsland en
Nederland dergelijke aanvallen van de
Chinezen ook al vastgesteld.
Het Comité I is met een onderzoek
gestart.
Dus er is geen enkel bewijs en toch hebben de Chinezen het gedaan. En
pas op he, na VanVelthoven(u weet wel de man van plak geen plakkertje
met uw paswoord op uw pc in de strijd tegen hackers) hebben we nu een
nieuwe computer specialist, Jo Vandeurzen, die zelfs weet dat de
Chinezen 'onzichtbare software' gebruiken...
Nadat men eerder de hele Westerse wereld deed geloven dat de Russen
zulk een dingen doen is het nu de beurt aan de Chinezen ...(Ja Hugo ik
weet het :-) )
Ze mogen hier gerust weten dat de Chinezen mijn gegevens probleemloos
mogen komen halen.
Qua Westerse mogendheden vind ik dat stukken gevaarlijker en die doen
het sowieso, en die houden alle gegevens bij.
Zelfs als je 5 minuten naar de wc bent geweest terwijl je ah surfen
was.
Het is zielig om zien hoe de Westerse wereld zich gedraagt. Nog
zieliger om vaststellen is dat de Westerse bevoking blijkbaar ruim dom
geoeg is om het allemaal te slikken.
Gunter Schelfhout
[Leer eens knippen]
> Ach, VRT teletekst staat weer vol met anti-China propaganda.
>
> De tandprotheses made in China zouden giftig zijn ...
>
> En dan volgende :
> PLEEGT CHINA ELEKTRONISCHE SPIONAGE?
> ---------------------------------------
> De Belgische Staatsveiligheid heeft
> ontdekt dat er aanvallen zijn geweest
> op belangrijke computers in ons land.
> Volgens justitieminister Jo Vandeurzen
> (CD&V) leidt het spoor naar China.
>
> De daders zouden e-mailberichten sturen
> met onzichtbare software, waarmee
> gegevens uit het computersysteem van de
> geadresseerde opgehaald worden.
>
> Volgens Vandeurzen zijn er geen harde
> bewijzen, maar is dat ook moeilijk te
> controleren. Eerder hebben Duitsland en
> Nederland dergelijke aanvallen van de
> Chinezen ook al vastgesteld.
>
> Het Comité I is met een onderzoek
> gestart.
>
>
>
> Dus er is geen enkel bewijs en toch hebben de Chinezen het gedaan.
Men kan de herkomst van de pakketjes nagaan en die komen wellicht uit China,
maar dit is op zich geen bewijs.
Dus niets mis met bovenstaand artikel.
> En
> pas op he, na VanVelthoven(u weet wel de man van plak geen plakkertje
> met uw paswoord op uw pc in de strijd tegen hackers)
Sla er eender welk security-boek op na en er staat dat een break-in in de
IT-infrastructuur van een organisatie veelal een inside job is.
Als eerste tip wordt dan ook gegeven om een sterk paswoord te gebruiken én
het niet op te schrijven.
Je moest eens weten hoeveel paswoorden er opgeschreven worden en zelfs
doorgegeven worden binnen een organisatie.
> hebben we nu een
> nieuwe computer specialist, Jo Vandeurzen, die zelfs weet dat de
> Chinezen 'onzichtbare software' gebruiken...
Hij had ook de term 'embedded' kunnen gebruiken, maar dan wist de helft van
Vlaanderen en 95% van de VB'ers niet waarover het ging.
[knip]
Rudyard Kipling
"Gunter Schelfhout" <no....@please.com.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:OgDSj.3619$815...@newsfe16.ams2...
> .... maar dan wist de helft van
> Vlaanderen en 95% van de VB'ers niet waarover het ging.
>
Na je prachtige, rustige en objectieve reactie over de kleurvakbonden in de
draad "Re: 1 mei : ook van ons" dacht ik dat je een beetje genezen was van
je schuimbekkerij.
Maar met dit bericht herval je weer in je oude gewoonten.
Heb je weer bij Belgicus geslapen ?
Of heb je met Dirk Claes gesproken ?
--
RK
Fikkie
Onzin Gunther.
Hackers komen via de draad.
Wat jij allemaal vertelt heeft niks maar dan ook niks met hacken te
maken.
>
> > hebben we nu een
> > nieuwe computer specialist, Jo Vandeurzen, die zelfs weet dat de
> > Chinezen 'onzichtbare software' gebruiken...
>
> Hij had ook de term 'embedded' kunnen gebruiken, maar dan wist de helft van
> Vlaanderen en 95% van de VB'ers niet waarover het ging.
>
> [knip]
Net alsof hij ook maar enig idee heeft wat ie zelf zegde ...
Ghingis Khan
"Fikkie" <pascal...@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:d77f596c-4598-403c...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Onzichtbare sofware......kan mij iemand die onzichtbare
bits en bytes eens wijzen ?
Embedded heeft niks te zien met zichtbaar of onzichtbaar.
Fikkie
> "Fikkie" <pascal.bey...@gmail.com> schreef in berichtnews:d77f596c-4598-403c...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
pff, daar wou ik niet op ingaan.
Ik weet met wat voor uitleggen hij dan komt en dat je dan als dommerik
wordt afgedaan als je niet meegaat in zen verzinsels.
Gunter Schelfhout
[knip]
>
> Onzichtbare sofware......kan mij iemand die onzichtbare
> bits en bytes eens wijzen ?
>
> Embedded heeft niks te zien met zichtbaar of onzichtbaar.
>
Ik heb het niet over embedded software, maar letterlijk als in ingebed,
ingesloten, maw niet op het eerste zicht te onderscheiden van andere
content.
Ghingis Khan
"Gunter Schelfhout" <no....@please.com.invalid> schreef in bericht
Gewoon add-onneke of virusje trojantje of "embedded" software.
Hoe onderschied jij bits en bytes ? Waar kan je die dan zien ?
In een assembler/disassembler ? In C++ ? Visual xxx
etc etc ?
Ik zou nog de "nibbles" vergeten ..................
Gunter Schelfhout
[knip]
>> > En
>> > pas op he, na VanVelthoven(u weet wel de man van plak geen plakkertje
>> > met uw paswoord op uw pc in de strijd tegen hackers)
>>
>> Sla er eender welk security-boek op na en er staat dat een break-in in de
>> IT-infrastructuur van een organisatie veelal een inside job is.
>> Als eerste tip wordt dan ook gegeven om een sterk paswoord te gebruiken
>> én het niet op te schrijven.
>> Je moest eens weten hoeveel paswoorden er opgeschreven worden en zelfs
>> doorgegeven worden binnen een organisatie.
>
> Onzin Gunther.
> Hackers komen via de draad.
Nope. De meeste gevallen van het ontfutselen van informatie gebeurt door
insiders en van buitenaf via social engeneering waarbij gebruikers zonder
het zelf te weten code activeren (via emails, spyware, url-redirection,
exploits in browsers en plugins, enz)
> Wat jij allemaal vertelt heeft niks maar dan ook niks met hacken te
> maken.
Klopt. Hackers zijn gewoon enthousiaste programmeurs en hebben niets te
maken met het inbreken in infrastructuren van derden.
Je mag je villa nog zo goed beveiligen met de duurste snufjes, maar als je
de deur op slot doet en de sleutel onder de mat steekt...
Alles begint bij een goed paswoord en er is dus niets verkeerds aan wat
Vanveldhoven vertelde.
Hij had natuurlijk ook kunnen zeggen dat je beter geen windows gebruikt
natuurlijk.
[knip]
Ghingis Khan
"Gunter Schelfhout" <no....@please.com.invalid> schreef in bericht
Paswoorden....de droom van elke hacker.
Fikkie
Ja, ik weet het Gunther.
In een .jpg ed.
Echter is dat verre van onzichtbaar. Enfin, voor VanDeurzen is allicht
niks zichtbaar behalve het uitzicht op een onverwijlde splitsing
zonder er een prijs voor te betalen.
Maar de aap komt al uit de mouw. Het is een drogreden om een nieuwe
inlichtingendienst op te richten die alle maar dan ook alle internet
verkeer gaat screenen.
Tja, De Russen en de Chinezen kunnen er eens een puntje aan zuigen als
het daar op aankomt.
Lang leve het regime!(ik pas me reeds aan met het oog op de toekomst)
Fikkie
Wat vertel jij nu toch weer allemaal?
Ghingis, had em gotverdomme eens dicht gehouden!
Fikkie
> "Gunter Schelfhout" <no.m...@please.com.invalid> schreef in berichtnews:K3ISj.3640$815....@newsfe16.ams2...
Jamaar pas op he Ghing, die hackers sturen dan hun mechanische
killerbees met super ogen op u af om dat paswoord op uw briefke te
komen lezen he.
Gunter Schelfhout
[knip]
>> Je mag je villa nog zo goed beveiligen met de duurste snufjes, maar als
>> je de deur op slot doet en de sleutel onder de mat steekt...
>> Alles begint bij een goed paswoord en er is dus niets verkeerds aan wat
>> Vanveldhoven vertelde.
>> Hij had natuurlijk ook kunnen zeggen dat je beter geen windows gebruikt
>> natuurlijk.
>>
>> [knip]
>
> Wat vertel jij nu toch weer allemaal?
Vanalles. En met wat ga je niet akkoord?
Hoeveel op deze ng hebben bv hetzelfde paswoord voor zijn windows-account en
zijn pop3-account?
Telkens zij hun mail nakijken, sturen ze hun paswoord in plain text (tenzij
via encryptie) door over het internet.
En bij hoeveel van diezelfde gebruikers is die account tevens de
admin-account?
Gunter Schelfhout
[knip]
>
> Ja, ik weet het Gunther.
> In een .jpg ed.
Iets onschuldigs als een link/url is vaak genoeg.
> Echter is dat verre van onzichtbaar. Enfin, voor VanDeurzen is allicht
> niks zichtbaar behalve het uitzicht op een onverwijlde splitsing
> zonder er een prijs voor te betalen.
>
> Maar de aap komt al uit de mouw. Het is een drogreden om een nieuwe
> inlichtingendienst op te richten die alle maar dan ook alle internet
> verkeer gaat screenen.
Je had toch geen problemen dat de Chinezen op uw pc'ke kwamen meekijken?
Waarom nu wel?
Gunter Schelfhout
[knip]
>
> In een assembler/disassembler ? In C++ ? Visual xxx
> etc etc ?
Grand bazaar, bougie, garde-boue, ...
Kijk GK, ik ken Frans.
Fikkie
> Fikkie wrote:
>
> [knip]
>
>
>
> > Ja, ik weet het Gunther.
> > In een .jpg ed.
>
> Iets onschuldigs als een link/url is vaak genoeg.
Wat bazel je nu toch?
Dan moet men klikken op die url. En wanneer men daar op klikt spreken
we over websites of internet en niet over e-mail.
>
> > Echter is dat verre van onzichtbaar. Enfin, voor VanDeurzen is allicht
> > niks zichtbaar behalve het uitzicht op een onverwijlde splitsing
> > zonder er een prijs voor te betalen.
>
> > Maar de aap komt al uit de mouw. Het is een drogreden om een nieuwe
> > inlichtingendienst op te richten die alle maar dan ook alle internet
> > verkeer gaat screenen.
>
> Je had toch geen problemen dat de Chinezen op uw pc'ke kwamen meekijken?
> Waarom nu wel?
Wat stamel je nu weer.
Ik heb het over Belgie dat een nieuwe inlichtingendienst opzet.
Jij hebt blijkbaar de praatjes van die tsjeef op de VRT zo maar
geslikt.
Wat hij zei(voor RK) :
Dat de Chinezen speciale administraties hebben die opgeleid worden om
in te breken op Europese/Westerse computers.
Dat zei dus een tsjeef (letterlijk), indien gewenst snor ik het media
fragment op.
Fikkie
> Fikkie wrote:
>
> [knip]
>
> >> Je mag je villa nog zo goed beveiligen met de duurste snufjes, maar als
> >> je de deur op slot doet en de sleutel onder de mat steekt...
> >> Alles begint bij een goed paswoord en er is dus niets verkeerds aan wat
> >> Vanveldhoven vertelde.
> >> Hij had natuurlijk ook kunnen zeggen dat je beter geen windows gebruikt
> >> natuurlijk.
>
> >> [knip]
>
> > Wat vertel jij nu toch weer allemaal?
>
> Vanalles. En met wat ga je niet akkoord?
Met wat ik niet akkoord ga?
Met zowat alle onzin die je net verkondigt heb.
> Hoeveel op deze ng hebben bv hetzelfde paswoord voor zijn windows-account en
> zijn pop3-account?
> Telkens zij hun mail nakijken, sturen ze hun paswoord in plain text (tenzij
> via encryptie) door over het internet.
> En bij hoeveel van diezelfde gebruikers is die account tevens de
> admin-account?
Ja en dan jom oetlul.
Wat heeft dat godverdomme te maken met met je paswoord op een breifje
schrijven en dat op je pc plakken?
3dubbele randdebiel van kust men koten.
Altijd hetzelfde gezaag en gezever dat op niks slaagt met u.
Ik zou haast overwegen om te gaan ploinken.
Vlaming!
Gunter Schelfhout
[knip]
>>
>> > Wat vertel jij nu toch weer allemaal?
>>
>> Vanalles. En met wat ga je niet akkoord?
>
> Met wat ik niet akkoord ga?
> Met zowat alle onzin die je net verkondigt heb.
Omdat....
Allez, SEO'ke, laat eens iets zien van uw netwerk-en computerkennis.
>
>> Hoeveel op deze ng hebben bv hetzelfde paswoord voor zijn windows-account
>> en zijn pop3-account?
>> Telkens zij hun mail nakijken, sturen ze hun paswoord in plain text
>> (tenzij via encryptie) door over het internet.
>> En bij hoeveel van diezelfde gebruikers is die account tevens de
>> admin-account?
>
>
> Ja en dan jom oetlul.
Oei, jij ook? :-p
[knip]
Ghingis Khan
--------------------------------
En dit hier is niets natuurlijk.
Het is er, gebruikt het
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy
Ghingis Khan
"Gunter Schelfhout" <no....@please.com.invalid> schreef in bericht
en van http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy nog nooit gehoord hé
Het is er gebruikt het.
Gunter Schelfhout
>
> "Gunter Schelfhout" <no....@please.com.invalid> schreef in bericht
> news:iAISj.3647$815...@newsfe16.ams2...
>> Ghingis Khan wrote:
>>
>> [knip]
>>
>>>
>>> In een assembler/disassembler ? In C++ ? Visual xxx
>>> etc etc ?
>>
>> Grand bazaar, bougie, garde-boue, ...
>> Kijk GK, ik ken Frans.
>
> en van http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy nog nooit gehoord
> hé Het is er gebruikt het.
>
Telkens als je uw mail checked bij uw provider en de provider ondersteund
geen encryptie voor pop3 (de verbinding), dan stuur je uw paswoord in plain
text over het net. Daar verandert PGP/GPG niets aan.
Ghingis Khan
"Gunter Schelfhout" <no....@please.com.invalid> schreef in bericht
Laat ze maar doen zolang ze de boodschap maar niet kunnen lezen.
Btw een firewall bestaat ook niet....niets binnen, niets buiten
zonder toestemming.