Re: RCMP Taser 82 year old man
Dave Smith
> "ronin" (ro...@ree.com) writes:
> > Either ban Tasers or stop hiring such weak pussies for cops!!
>
> (K): Are they really "weak pussies" or bullies that should never have been
> allowed to be cops?
>
Tell us Karen, since the police can do nothing right in your eyes, do you want
big strong bullies who can intimidate people with their size. strength and gruff
manner, the sort of guys who can swing a fist with the best of them, or would
you prefer some pint sized milquetoast who wouldn't be able to fight his or her
way out of a wet paper bag? Do you want police officers to physically engage
combative people and end up spending the rest of their shift in the hospital or
going off on compensation?
For crissakes, the police are called in to handle situations where most people
are afraid. Then when they act all the armchair experts second guess them with
hindsight.
> More and more incidents are being reported - or shown on TV as a result of
> all the camera cellphones out there - police using brutality in their
> arrests or control of persons. I think the taser issue has to go MUCH
> deeper than just when and where tasers are allowed - if ever. I think
> it's time to review our police forces and their tactics and actions.
In addition to the questionable incidents, there are those in which violent
subjects were taken down successfully with a taser in situations where they might
otherwise have been shot.
General Public:.. Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4824AE97...@sympatico.ca...
> Karen Gordon wrote:
>
> > "ronin" (ro...@ree.com) writes:
> > > Either ban Tasers or stop hiring such weak pussies for cops!!
> >
> > (K): Are they really "weak pussies" or bullies that should never have
been
> > allowed to be cops?
> >
>
> Tell us Karen, since the police can do nothing right in your eyes, do you
want
> big strong bullies who can intimidate people with their size. strength and
gruff
> manner,
Listen you little prick and police state fuck-up, the cops are out of
control and it time to shut down the RCMP, as who needs these scum anyhow...
The RCMP are just another terrorist group they should be tortured at all
costsd
"Terror Threats" Scare RCMP Senior Cop
The Ottawa Citizen | Assistant Commissioner Mike McDonell said the cases are
"spread right across the country" and each is comparable in scale to Canada'
s biggest alleged jihadist conspiracy, in other words a "terror threat"
created by the government.
...........................
"Terror Threats" Scare RCMP Senior Cop
Ian MacLeod
The Ottawa Citizen
May 8, 2008
Editor's Note: The "jihadist" fertilizer bomb mentioned below was
orchestrated by two government informers, one paid an astounding $4 million.
(See Government Moles in 'Terror' Bomb Plot Provided Bomb, Set up Training
Camp, Toronto Star, September 26, 2007.)
The RCMP is investigating seven suspected terrorist plots so disturbing they
"keep me awake at night," the senior Mountie for national security disclosed
yesterday.
Assistant Commissioner Mike McDonell said the cases are "spread right across
the country" and each is comparable in scale to Canada's biggest alleged
jihadist conspiracy, which resulted in the arrests of 18 Toronto-area people
in a suspected plot to bomb federal buildings in 2006.
The seven cases are among an unprecedented 848 national security cases, most
related to terrorism, currently under investigation, Assistant Commissioner
McDonell told an Ottawa conference on critical infrastructure protection.
"What we're onto scares us," he said in a later interview, without
elaborating. "What we're not onto really scares us."
Since Sept. 11, 2001, the RCMP's national security criminal investigation
section's caseload has grown 780 per cent, with the $40-million-a-year
section "borrowing people from here, there and everywhere, there's just that
much work out there," he said. "It's a no-risk environment. Our people are
running at the limit."
His comments are the most detailed and candid yet from police on the threat
confronting Canada.
"What we're facing is a violent Islamist born-again social movement,"
comprised mostly of young, second- or third-generation immigrants with a
secular background, he told the Conference Board of Canada gathering of
security, industry and government experts.
With no direct links to the al-Qaeda terror network, they are rarely in
organized terror cells, but rather members of amorphous cliques and clusters
of lower middle-class or lower-class men, average age 20, who feel
discriminated against and excluded from society.
"I look at them as terrorist wannabes," said Assistant Commissioner
McDonell. "Being a wannabe does not make them any less dangerous; in fact, I
would argue it makes them more dangerous. Not ideologically motivated, they
are emotionally motivated, motivated by images: rapes, murders, arrests
creating moral outrage.
"This all adds up to making them extremely difficult to identify and their
behaviours difficult to predict. And in my experience, the realization that
they have been identified and that we're onto them, only emboldens and
legitimizes them. That doesn't slow them down."
The huge caseload is partly the result of an evolution in counter-terrorism
law enforcement since 9/11, he said: "We know more now, we're getting better
at identifying more, our investigators are getting better."
The RCMP's improving relationship with the Canadian Security Intelligence
Service is partly responsible, too, he said.
"It's like a marriage where we're working our way through stuff, but we're
going forward. So we're in (investigating potential terrorism) much earlier
and collecting evidence and working towards disruption."
Assistant Commissioner McDonell used his speech to fire back at many in the
media and others who criticized the RCMP's work on the "Toronto 18" case
after four more suspects had charges against them stayed recently, leaving
one youth and 10 adults to be tried out of the original 18 suspects.
Given the nature of terrorism and especially suicide terrorists, it's
essential that police act before a strike is committed, he said. As the
Toronto case and others have shown, that can be a risky prosecution strategy
if insufficient evidence has been gathered at the time of arrest.
Dave Smith
>
> > Tell us Karen, since the police can do nothing right in your eyes, do you
> want
> > big strong bullies who can intimidate people with their size. strength and
> gruff
> > manner,
>
> Listen you little prick and police state fuck-up, the cops are out of
> control and it time to shut down the RCMP, as who needs these scum anyhow...
I wasn't the one who called the police about a delusional patient with a knife.
What should they have done?
Paul Morgan
wrote:
>> "Tom P" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote
>>> On the news tonight there was a report of 3 RCMP police officers who
>>> Tasered an 82 year old man as he lied in his hospital bed. He recently had
>>> heart surgery and was hooked up to oxygen.
>>>
>>> He was Tasered 3 times and the reasons the RCMP gave for using the Taser
>>> was that the old man was holding a pocket knife and wouldn't let go. It
>>> was reported that the man sometimes is dilusional.
>>>
>>> It's time to put a moratorium on the use of Tasers until the inquiry on
>>> Taser use in British Columbia is finished. It's becoming very obvious that
>>> Tasers are being used in situations where there use is not warranted. What
>>> danger did this man pose from his hospital bed?
>
>"ronin" (ro...@ree.com) writes:
>> Either ban Tasers or stop hiring such weak pussies for cops!!
>
>(K): Are they really "weak pussies" or bullies that should never have been
>allowed to be cops?
>
>More and more incidents are being reported - or shown on TV as a result of
>all the camera cellphones out there - police using brutality in their
>arrests or control of persons. I think
Something new you are trying?
Robert McKenzie
"The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" <The General Public:..
Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca> wrote in message
news:Ku2Vj.1275$Yp.110@edtnps92...
>
> "Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4824AE97...@sympatico.ca...
>> Karen Gordon wrote:
>>
>> > "ronin" (ro...@ree.com) writes:
>> > > Either ban Tasers or stop hiring such weak pussies for cops!!
>> >
>> > (K): Are they really "weak pussies" or bullies that should never have
> been
>> > allowed to be cops?
>> >
>>
>> Tell us Karen, since the police can do nothing right in your eyes, do you
> want
>> big strong bullies who can intimidate people with their size. strength
>> and
> gruff
>> manner,
>
> Listen you little prick and police state fuck-up, the cops are out of
> control and it time to shut down the RCMP, as who needs these scum
> anyhow...
>
> The RCMP are just another terrorist group they should be tortured at all
> costsd
and what would the RCMP be replaced with?
Let's try something since it has been YOU that state (above) that they
should be tortured, why not let
us test a few torture methods on you Mark, so you can tell us which ones
work and which ones of those
that do work should be used.
You're a real asshole, Mark.
Get help while you're still coherent, bud.
catchme
> Karen Gordon wrote:
>
>> "ronin" (ro...@ree.com) writes:
>>> Either ban Tasers or stop hiring such weak pussies for cops!!
>> (K): Are they really "weak pussies" or bullies that should never have been
>> allowed to be cops?
>>
>
> Tell us Karen, since the police can do nothing right in your eyes, do you want
> big strong bullies who can intimidate people with their size. strength and gruff
> manner, the sort of guys who can swing a fist with the best of them, or would
> you prefer some pint sized milquetoast who wouldn't be able to fight his or her
> way out of a wet paper bag? Do you want police officers to physically engage
> combative people and end up spending the rest of their shift in the hospital or
> going off on compensation?
>
> For crissakes, the police are called in to handle situations where most people
> are afraid. Then when they act all the armchair experts second guess them with
> hindsight.
>
>
the police are in the position of authority precisely because they carry
the responsibility to both protect AND serve the public.
Understandably sometimes the stress overwhelms an officer and colours
their perspective, but nonetheless their uniform represents the publics'
TRUST.
An officer is supposedly trained not just to react in a certain way to a
situation, but to determine the BEST RESPONSE to it.
If the current police training removes their ability to think and act
decisively for the benefit of everyone's interests, then its time to
rewrite the book.
Seriously, since when did we the public give the police the right to act
like brown shirt gestapos?
General Public:.. Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep
The guy was in his bed at the time and had heart surgery, and you fucking
police stte idiots can't seem to grasp that here you have an 82 year old
man, then you have three RCMP officers in his hospital room and they could
have easily handled him without the use of a
Taser. What the fuck is wrong with you people. "They could have gone in
there and taken an old man without any trouble. Are you telling myself that
three cops are just a bunch of puss ass whimps.....It about time the public
start using force on the RCMP as they seem to be more delusional then anyone
else in this country......see below why
General Public:.. Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep
"Semper Libèr® ." <.nopolicestates????!?~Hj...@freedom4all.org> wrote in
message news:464Vj.1291$Yp.94@edtnps92...
>
> With delusions like this, they will eventually wear off... so the question
> becomes was he immediately threatening to anyone, or did the cops just
want
> to hurry for their next coffee and donut.
It not about threats to the cops, it about their commands and doing what
they command to do, that's all it's about..... as it doesn't matter if you
speak English or not as the airport issue showed, no problem, just be a lazy
fucking piece of shit cop and use a taser as these kook cops are a death
cult machine now...
General Public:.. Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep
> "Semper Libèr® ." wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > He was lying DOWN!! Oh for crying out loud. So how were the cops
threatened?
> > Did they think he was spider man, and was going to use his shooting web
to
> > paralyse them?
> >
> > > It was bad policeing..period. And no matter how robotic you want to
be,
> > > repeating your inaccurate view of it doesn't change that fact.
> >
> > They probably could have subdued him with a pitcher of water.... One
officer
> > distracts him with the water, while the other grabs his wrist and takes
his
> > knife.
>
> Heaven forbid the guy might have dropped the knife when told to do so. He
> didn't. The police did not initiate the confrontation. They were called in
ti
> deal with it because no one in the hospital wanted to deal with a
delusional man
> armed with a knife. The police don't have to risk being slashed with a
knife
> and more than the nurses do.
Tell us Dave, why are you so frightened by the fact that the public should
armed to protect themselves from police that are getting way to violent...
which is why you won't answer that, as too many cops are becoming terrorist
thugs...You are a hypocrite, and stupid ass.
People should be tasering the cops...
Robert McKenzie
"The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" <The General Public:..
Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca> wrote in message
Go ahead and do it Mark. You're all talk and no action, bud.
If anyone is a hypocrite in this newsgroup, it has to be you Mark.
and why should the public be armed to protect themselves?? It's a U.S.
mentality and that so-called 'right to bear arms'
is not without restrictions, Mark. It's not something that Canada needs.
If you want to go around being Mr. Big Shot with a gun in your hip, move to
the States.
Tom P
> Karen Gordon wrote:
>
>
>>"ronin" (ro...@ree.com) writes:
>>
>>>Either ban Tasers or stop hiring such weak pussies for cops!!
>>
>>(K): Are they really "weak pussies" or bullies that should never have been
>>allowed to be cops?
>>
>
>
> Tell us Karen, since the police can do nothing right in your eyes, do you want
> big strong bullies who can intimidate people with their size. strength and gruff
> manner, the sort of guys who can swing a fist with the best of them, or would
> you prefer some pint sized milquetoast who wouldn't be able to fight his or her
> way out of a wet paper bag? Do you want police officers to physically engage
> combative people and end up spending the rest of their shift in the hospital or
> going off on compensation?
>
> For crissakes, the police are called in to handle situations where most people
> are afraid. Then when they act all the armchair experts second guess them with
> hindsight.
>
With your attitude you would make a perfect cop!
If the suspect can't speak English... Taser him. You'll have a license
to kill so it can be justified.
A dillusional old man in a hospital bed with a pocket knife... No
problem, just Taser him so that you can get back to your beat.
This is totally unacceptable. The RCMP are totally unaccountable to the
public. And I thought they were supposed to be protecting the public.
John Harding
It is tough to change though, because there was a time when we were taught
that the RCMP were exceptional and amazing icons of Canada's policing system.
Not like the dreadful and tough Sûreté du Québec or the corrupt federal
police we hear of from third world countries like Mexico.
Now, to many of us, the very idea that our very own Mounties, a Canadian icon
to the world, are riddled with incompetence and corruption (not that they're
all like that), is still a tough one to behold.
It has to do with more than their leadership. The fact that those officers
were murdered in Alberta a few years back represented a failing in how they
are trained to do their jobs, the same failure in training was evident when
that Polish man was tasered and then died. Though I doubt that the Taser
killed him, the incompetent conduct of the RCMP officers was integral to it.
Dave Smith
>
> The guy was in his bed at the time and had heart surgery, and you fucking
> police stte idiots can't seem to grasp that here you have an 82 year old
> man, then you have three RCMP officers in his hospital room and they could
> have easily handled him without the use of a
And fucking idiots like you can't understand a simple sentence without being
late to make incorrect assumptions. The man was not lying there recovering from
heart surgery. He had had it some time before. He was described by reporters as
frail looking, but he didn't look or sound that frail in the video interview. He
is a retired prison guard, so likely knows how to fight and how to use a
knife. He was an armed with a knife and delusional. The taser was used to
subdue and disarm him and they did it without causing any serious or lasting
harm to him and none of the police or nursing staff were hurt.
>
> Taser. What the fuck is wrong with you people. "They could have gone in
> there and taken an old man without any trouble.
No one in their right mind tries to take a knife away from a delusional person.
> Are you telling myself that
> three cops are just a bunch of puss ass whimps...
After all the discussions here about use of force and when it is appropriate,
you may have clued into the fact that officers are able to and expected to use
deadly force against a person wielding a knife. Aside from the man being in a
hospital bed being a mitigating circumstance, they now have a tool that is
considered to be a safe and effective alternative to deadly force.
Do not loose touch with the reality of the situation. The man was delusional and
had a knife. the police were called in by the medical staff. He had to be
disarmed. No one is expected to be slashed disarming another person. The taser
was used. The man got a nasty shock and dropped the knife. He was not injured.
He has two little holes and a bit of bruising where the darts hit him.
Dave Smith
>
>
> Go ahead and do it Mark. You're all talk and no action, bud.
>
> If anyone is a hypocrite in this newsgroup, it has to be you Mark.
>
> and why should the public be armed to protect themselves?? It's a U.S.
> mentality and that so-called 'right to bear arms'
> is not without restrictions, Mark. It's not something that Canada needs.
>
And most of them are too dense to realize that having 3-4 times as many firearms
homicides does little to support the idea that all those make them safer.
John Harding
Living in an urban area? Privately owned side arms are different.
Rifles? I see no problem. Rifles are not used in crimes by and large.
John Harding
change.
Alan Baker
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" wrote:
>
> >
> > The guy was in his bed at the time and had heart surgery, and you fucking
> > police stte idiots can't seem to grasp that here you have an 82 year old
> > man, then you have three RCMP officers in his hospital room and they could
> > have easily handled him without the use of a
>
> And fucking idiots like you can't understand a simple sentence without being
> late to make incorrect assumptions. The man was not lying there recovering
> from
> heart surgery. He had had it some time before. He was described by reporters
> as
> frail looking, but he didn't look or sound that frail in the video interview.
> He
> is a retired prison guard, so likely knows how to fight and how to use a
> knife. He was an armed with a knife and delusional. The taser was used to
> subdue and disarm him and they did it without causing any serious or lasting
> harm to him and none of the police or nursing staff were hurt.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Taser. What the fuck is wrong with you people. "They could have gone in
> > there and taken an old man without any trouble.
>
> No one in their right mind tries to take a knife away from a delusional
> person.
!. A pocket knife.
2. An *82* year old man.
3. I did.
>
> > Are you telling myself that
> > three cops are just a bunch of puss ass whimps...
>
> After all the discussions here about use of force and when it is appropriate,
> you may have clued into the fact that officers are able to and expected to
> use
> deadly force against a person wielding a knife. Aside from the man being in a
> hospital bed being a mitigating circumstance, they now have a tool that is
> considered to be a safe and effective alternative to deadly force.
>
> Do not loose touch with the reality of the situation. The man was delusional
> and
> had a knife. the police were called in by the medical staff. He had to be
> disarmed. No one is expected to be slashed disarming another person. The
> taser
> was used. The man got a nasty shock and dropped the knife. He was not
> injured.
> He has two little holes and a bit of bruising where the darts hit him.
The man was *82* and could have been left alone to calm down.
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Tom P
disgusted with this as the public is. But this does start at the top.
When stupid actions like this are defended by the RCMP brass, it sends a
message to the members that no matter what they do, their ass is covered.
Like any organization, if they are allowed to investigate themselves,
you get a mentality of circling the wagons and do damage control. It's
the same with the medical profession. They protect their own.
The underlying problem is accountability. Just like young offenders, if
their is no punishment, there is no change in attitude.
General Public:.. Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep
> Robert McKenzie wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Go ahead and do it Mark. You're all talk and no action, bud.
Nope, I'm armed and ready to fight your terrorist group.....also your
beloved foreign american troops when they start in our cities, in which I
will get there weapons too using gorilla warfare and tactic's to acquire
them...
> >
> > If anyone is a hypocrite in this newsgroup, it has to be you Mark.
Nope , you police state cowardly shits, think your going to tell me how to
live my live, think again asshole, BC will put up the greatest fight your
terrorist group will ever see, Because people here are not going to let
there freedoms and rights be removed by you fucking kooks and your american
friends who are taking over Canada. Your Canadian political leaders are
treasonous scum and they will get there soon enough!
> >
> > and why should the public be armed to protect themselves?? It's a U.S.
> > mentality and that so-called 'right to bear arms'
> > is not without restrictions, Mark. It's not something that Canada needs.
Wake up you fucking idiot, this is an act of war on the public....as the
rule of law mean's notthing to you kooks
> And most of them are too dense to realize that having 3-4 times as many
firearms
> homicides does little to support the idea that all those make them safer.
You are a nutcase! If you want a police state mentality, keep it back east
asshole
General Public:.. Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep
> The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" wrote:
>
> >
> > The guy was in his bed at the time and had heart surgery, and you
fucking
> > police stte idiots can't seem to grasp that here you have an 82 year old
> > man, then you have three RCMP officers in his hospital room and they
could
> > have easily handled him without the use of a
>
> And fucking idiots like you can't understand a simple sentence without
being
> late to make incorrect assumptions.
No kook, it stupid fucks like you who see everything is frightening, even
old men with a little tiny pen knifes who out numbered three to one...What
it going to be next, children with skate boards are a danger to the RCMP and
they need ten police officers to get the skate board as the child may be
dangerous so they all taser the kid...give your stupidity a rest will a you!
Robert LaCasse
<The General Public:.. Lobotomized
|>
|>"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
|>news:4824AE97...@sympatico.ca...
|>> Karen Gordon wrote:
|>>
|>> > "ronin" (ro...@ree.com) writes:
|>> > > Either ban Tasers or stop hiring such weak pussies for cops!!
|>> >
|>> > (K): Are they really "weak pussies" or bullies that should never have
|>been
|>> > allowed to be cops?
|>> >
|>>
|>> Tell us Karen, since the police can do nothing right in your eyes, do you
|>want
|>> big strong bullies who can intimidate people with their size. strength and
|>gruff
|>> manner,
|>
|>Listen you little prick and police state fuck-up, the cops are out of
|>control and it time to shut down the RCMP, as who needs these scum anyhow...
|>
|>The RCMP are just another terrorist group they should be tortured at all
|>costsd
|>
Good enough, it's always been common knowledge amongst Humans, that
the RCMP do Hire registered psychopathic TrogloDykes to do their Dirty work
for them, such subjects can be found in the Cleu/Nwest/Fips/BATFE/IGTF/Jtf
to mention a small percentage of registered groups that are semi open to
public scrutiny.....
|>"Terror Threats" Scare RCMP Senior Cop
|>
Did somebody fart on his uniform????
|>The Ottawa Citizen | Assistant Commissioner Mike McDonell said the cases are
|>"spread right across the country" and each is comparable in scale to Canada'
|>s biggest alleged jihadist conspiracy, in other words a "terror threat"
|>created by the government.
|>...........................
Putting a Jihad in Canada is just like dropping you in Iraq, all by
yourself........so what do you think would happen.....nothing, nothing but
confusion...... right,.....look a the YVR Tasered Guy from Warsaw....he was
an example to what a terrorist can do all alone or in small groups....
But these Security Guys are convinced that even on terrorist is a
threat to their group of 21,000 union members, and their consideration to us
is not a big part of their interests....except for some efforts which a re
highly publicized to emphasize the level of propaganda they need to keep
collecting funds from us....
General Public:.. Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep
"John Harding" <johnhar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.228ef2b5a...@news.individual.net...
Tom P <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> With your attitude you would make a perfect cop!
>
>
>Trust me. I know a lot of cops and they're not stupid like him.
So what, most I know are fucking retarded, and a danger to the public with
the stupid shit they say about dealing with citizen's, that they know are
totally illegal to do things there way rather by the rule of law. It's this
retarded mentality they have of "Them VS.. Citizen's"......the thing they
forget is they are just citizen's themselves and no different then anyone
else because they are only civil servants' and are beholden to the public,
as citizen's themselves. They are no more special then you or I.....
>It is tough to change though, because there was a time when we were taught
>that the RCMP were exceptional and amazing icons of Canada's policing
system.
>Not like the dreadful and tough Sûreté du Québec or the corrupt federal
>police we hear of from third world countries like Mexico.
The RCMP are an out dated police force of no use any more.....Get rid of
them and shut them down, it's the only way...
Robert LaCasse
|>> Listen you little prick and police state fuck-up, the cops are out of
|>> control and it time to shut down the RCMP, as who needs these scum
|>> anyhow...
|>>
|>> The RCMP are just another terrorist group they should be tortured at all
|>> costsd
|>
|>and what would the RCMP be replaced with?
|>
CCW/CCP/ATC/RTKBA/Etc., it's a real easy explanation that needed no
thought to remember....
When the hell have the RCMP defended anybody but themselves for
their cause....all you do is get to pay for their "police services"...
General Public:.. Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep
"Robert LaCasse" <Heisei_...@Bob.info> wrote in message
news:oepb241l5ja0iplv8...@4ax.com...
Well they do have to justify the billions of dollars they got off the people
and yet not one terrorist group yet in Canada..oh well, the RCMP do keep on
trying, even if they have to create terrorists themselves to commit act of
terrorism......to win public support and the money they get!
catchme
> The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" wrote:
>
>
> No one in their right mind tries to take a knife away from a delusional person.
>
>
i get it- so if your alzheimer- inflicted grandma who walks down the
street forgetting she has a knife in her hand (likely she was paring
apples, and just remembered that she needed some brown sugar for the
cobbler).....she should EXPECT to get tasered?
there is an ever widening gap between what the PUBLIC expect of their
police, and what the police actually DO- and therefore a gap bewtewen
the Charter and Justice.
This will eventually lead to a point where the people will get together
in mass civil protest- but the RCMP have already prepared a statement
that they are ready for such "terrorism".
Zeig Heil, assholes!
catchme
unfortunately, even a good samaritan armed with a cell phone or camera,
is subject to threats by police today.
They will offer ONCE to confiscate your recording device, before placing
you "in custody" (essentially, arrested without charge) to sit in a
drunk tank for a minimum of 3 hours for "disturbing the peace".
Robert LaCasse
|>the police are in the position of authority precisely because they carry
|>the responsibility to both protect AND serve the public.
What they do is carry a "gun", and there is no clause in their
effect that says they have to "protect AND serve the public"....it's not
even a Hippocratic oath anymore...
|>Understandably sometimes the stress overwhelms an officer and colours
|>their perspective, but nonetheless their uniform represents the publics'
|>TRUST.
The public Trusts a uniform.....right they think you are what you
wear, that must be their new hat philosophy to wear on Halloween...
|>An officer is supposedly trained not just to react in a certain way to a
|>situation, but to determine the BEST RESPONSE to it.
|>If the current police training removes their ability to think and act
|>decisively for the benefit of everyone's interests, then its time to
|>rewrite the book.
Most of the physical trainning is an exercise to baton and taser you
as they take turns to batter you on the Field Trips they are exercised
in...if you don't go down, they shoot you....
|>Seriously, since when did we the public give the police the right to act
|>like brown shirt gestapos?
The public don't tell the RCMP/Police what to, try it sometime, you'll be
drinking through a straw for a long time....
They have RCMP brown shirt dress codes, ever since they patched an
association with Adolph Hitler in 1920 were they wore the Tit Hat, and he
wore the Black Austrian Cap.....I had/have a picture of that from way back
when Hitler had a full mini handlebar mustache....
General Public:.. Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep
"catchme" <som...@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:M2mVj.130545$Cj7.70114@pd7urf2no...
> The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep wrote:
>
> >
> > No kook, it stupid fucks like you who see everything is frightening,
even
> > old men with a little tiny pen knifes who out numbered three to
one...What
> > it going to be next, children with skate boards are a danger to the RCMP
and
> > they need ten police officers to get the skate board as the child may be
> > dangerous so they all taser the kid...give your stupidity a rest will a
you!
> >
> >
> unfortunately, even a good samaritan armed with a cell phone or camera,
> is subject to threats by police today.
Now that I've seen first hand and even though the cop was mistaken he still
treated the person as a criminal even though he wasn't....
> They will offer ONCE to confiscate your recording device, before placing
> you "in custody" (essentially, arrested without charge) to sit in a
> drunk tank for a minimum of 3 hours for "disturbing the peace".
Just think how many cops drink and drive, "A" - A lot!
General Public:.. Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep
"Robert LaCasse" <falun...@beijing.info> wrote in message
news:aeqb24djs6ljtr3fd...@4ax.com...
Our community is looking at a new type of community police force, that works
with the people, not like the system in place now where the police think
they are above the law.
General Public:.. Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep
> Dave Smith wrote:
> > The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > No one in their right mind tries to take a knife away from a delusional
person.
> >
> >
>
> i get it- so if your alzheimer- inflicted grandma who walks down the
> street forgetting she has a knife in her hand (likely she was paring
> apples, and just remembered that she needed some brown sugar for the
> cobbler).....she should EXPECT to get tasered?
Dam, Dave would taser the old woman in seconds.....
Paul Morgan
wrote:
>> He has two little holes and a bit of bruising where the darts hit him.
>
>The man was *82* and could have been left alone to calm down.
And could have cut his own wrist.
SaPeIsMa
"Robert LaCasse" <The_Smo...@MJ12.info> wrote in message
news:tpqb24h6r4qlb2njk...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 10 May 2008 00:53:00 GMT, catchme <som...@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
> |>the police are in the position of authority precisely because they carry
> |>the responsibility to both protect AND serve the public.
>
> What they do is carry a "gun", and there is no clause in their
> effect that says they have to "protect AND serve the public"....it's not
> even a Hippocratic oath anymore...
>
LOL
Then you have better do a bit of research on what it REALLY means
In the US, there is CLEAR judicial case law that basically states, that
UNLESS the police have a previous relationship with you, such as agreeing to
protect you, they have NO DUTY to protect anyone
See USSC - Castle Rock v Gonzales
http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2004/2004_04_278/
See also USSC - Deshaney v. Winnebago
See also USSC - Warren v. District of Columbia
> |>Understandably sometimes the stress overwhelms an officer and colours
> |>their perspective, but nonetheless their uniform represents the publics'
> |>TRUST.
>
> The public Trusts a uniform.....
This is only true for those who don't know better
Dave Smith
Sure he could have. That would have meant refusing treatment for the problem that
was causing his delsuional behaviour. The police should not have been called at
all. But hold on a sec.... the medical staff could not deal with him because he was
delusional and armed with a knife. The police came, ordered him to drop it, he did
not, so they tasered him, disarmed him and he was treated for the problem for which
he had been taken to hospital.
Dave Smith
Not a problem for the same people who come to assist the medical staff. Then
they could blame the nurses/doctors and/or police for not doing something to
disarm the guy. It's a no win situation for the police when it comes to
assholes like that. No matter what the police do they are wrong.
Robert McKenzie
"The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" <The General Public:..
Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca> wrote in message
news:wpmVj.1487$Yp.352@edtnps92...
Even that "community police force" will have to operate within the Police
Act, and any federal statuatory acts that
affect policing.
There's already community crime watches in many places, this isn't new,
unless Mark wants to ride herd with his
$5.00 tin sherriff badge and Daisy cap gun.
Bob
<The General Public:.. Lobotomized
|>> When the hell have the RCMP defended anybody but themselves for
|>> their cause....all you do is get to pay for their "police services"...
|>
|>Our community is looking at a new type of community police force, that works
|>with the people, not like the system in place now where the police think
|>they are above the law.
The Japs, Brits, and many Europeans disarmed the police itself,
except for the ERTeam or Para/Military that have to be called on through a
lot of channels to get to the bad action......
To allow everyone to be armed like the
USA is not a bad idea, since no one really knows who is carrying and who
isn't....
--
Triad Productions-Fantalla居EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
WWWeb>> http://boblacasse.150m. com
Bob
Right,........93 Billion dollars disclosed, with the bulk still in
floating investments....
John Harding
> On Sat, 10 May 2008 19:09:16 GMT, "The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep"
> <The General Public:.. Lobotomized
> Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca> wrote:
>
> |>> When the hell have the RCMP defended anybody but themselves for
> |>> their cause....all you do is get to pay for their "police services"...
> |>
> |>Our community is looking at a new type of community police force, that works
> |>with the people, not like the system in place now where the police think
> |>they are above the law.
>
> The Japs, Brits, and many Europeans disarmed the police itself,
> except for the ERTeam or Para/Military that have to be called on through a
> lot of channels to get to the bad action......
>
> To allow everyone to be armed like the
> USA is not a bad idea, since no one really knows who is carrying and who
> isn't....
> --
>
their existence is transparent.
They're the same places that have capital punishment, and surprisingly if I
murdered someone, the death penalty would be the last thing on my mind.
Thank goodness that I'm not a homicidal maniac like "Jerry Buck" Inman of
Greenville SC.
http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
AID=/20080508/NEWS01/80508007/1001
Nope
"The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" <The General Public:..
message news:2QlVj.1476$: >
: >Trust me. I know a lot of cops and they're not stupid like him.
:
: So what, most I know are fucking retarded, and a danger to the public
with
: the stupid shit they say about dealing with citizen's, that they know
are
: totally illegal to do things there way rather by the rule of law. It's
this
: retarded mentality they have of "Them VS.. Citizen's"......the thing
they
: forget is they are just citizen's themselves and no different then
anyone
: else because they are only civil servants' and are beholden to the
public,
: as citizen's themselves. They are no more special then you or I.....
:
: >It is tough to change though, because there was a time when we were
taught
: >that the RCMP were exceptional and amazing icons of Canada's policing
: system.
: >Not like the dreadful and tough Sûreté du Québec or the corrupt
federal
: >police we hear of from third world countries like Mexico.
:
: The RCMP are an out dated police force of no use any more.....Get rid
of
: them and shut them down, it's the only way...
:
I know many cops and most of them are indeed control freaks, that's why
they're doing what they love to do, or get a way with. They love to
exert their force onto others at any possible opportunity. Only a few
have the decency and sensibility to know what is morally right, wrong,
ethical, fair, and reasonable. Whenever shit hits the fan, they always
say, "they went by the book:" The RCMP for example, is so desperate in
keeping and hiring police officers, they're overlooking inpropriaties
more than ever. I am still amazed that they allowed that female cop who
killed two guys rushing to a suicidal call in Burnaby. We will have to
see what happens, if she indeed will get convicted and if she will
remain a peace officer. If not, which is rare, she'll likely become a
transit cop and taser those who don't pay $2.50 for riding transit.
We can kiss the idea of a regionalized police force good bye. It ain't
going to happen. Canada has an image to uphold, the world RCMP image.
As far as the world is concerned, these taser situations are isolated
incidences. They will often believe what nuts like 'Dave Smith' have to
say because in their mind, nobody in law enforcement in a non third
world country would be so brutal and inhumane. Therefore, they dismiss
what the rest of us, who have cognitive thinking ability may have say
when we speak against the mighty RCMP and those who are in positions of
authority.
Semper Libèr® .
> Robert McKenzie wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Go ahead and do it Mark. You're all talk and no action, bud.
> >
> >
> > mentality and that so-called 'right to bear arms'
> > is not without restrictions, Mark. It's not something that Canada needs.
> >
>
firearms
> homicides does little to support the idea that all those make them safer.
So you want the police disarmed to make them safer?
Dave, you sound delusional.....
John Harding
> We can kiss the idea of a regionalized police force good bye. It ain't
> going to happen. Canada has an image to uphold, the world RCMP image.
> As far as the world is concerned, these taser situations are isolated
> incidences. They will often believe what nuts like 'Dave Smith' have to
> say because in their mind, nobody in law enforcement in a non third
> world country would be so brutal and inhumane. Therefore, they dismiss
> what the rest of us, who have cognitive thinking ability may have say
> when we speak against the mighty RCMP and those who are in positions of
> authority.
>
>
Living in Toronto? I see the Fed cops at the airport.
It's time that BC and Alberta got with the program like Quebec and Ontario.
Get your own provincial police force that reports to your Provincial
Government, not Ottawa.
Sure, there's been a few issues with the QPP and the OPP, but it's better
than having the RCMP like you have.
Semper Libèr® .
"Robert McKenzie" <rob...@makz.org> wrote in message
news:Ou7Vj.1742$KB3.390@edtnps91...
>
> "The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" <The General Public:..
> Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca> wrote in message
> >> "Semper Libèr® ." wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > He was lying DOWN!! Oh for crying out loud. So how were the cops
> > threatened?
> >> > Did they think he was spider man, and was going to use his shooting
web
> > to
> >> > paralyse them?
> >> >
> >> > > It was bad policeing..period. And no matter how robotic you want to
> > be,
> >> > > repeating your inaccurate view of it doesn't change that fact.
> >> >
> >> > They probably could have subdued him with a pitcher of water.... One
> > officer
> >> > distracts him with the water, while the other grabs his wrist and
takes
> > his
> >> > knife.
> >>
> >> Heaven forbid the guy might have dropped the knife when told to do so.
He
> >> didn't. The police did not initiate the confrontation. They were called
> >> in
> > ti
> >> deal with it because no one in the hospital wanted to deal with a
> > delusional man
> >> armed with a knife. The police don't have to risk being slashed with a
> > knife
> >> and more than the nurses do.
> >
> > Tell us Dave, why are you so frightened by the fact that the public
should
> > armed to protect themselves from police that are getting way to
violent...
> > which is why you won't answer that, as too many cops are becoming
> > terrorist
> > thugs...You are a hypocrite, and stupid ass.
> >
> > People should be tasering the cops...
>
> Go ahead and do it Mark. You're all talk and no action, bud.
What kind of action have you done? Besides bend over that is...
Semper Libèr® .
> John Harding <johnhar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > Robert McKenzie wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Go ahead and do it Mark. You're all talk and no action, bud.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > and why should the public be armed to protect themselves?? It's a
U.S.
> > > > mentality and that so-called 'right to bear arms'
> > > > is not without restrictions, Mark. It's not something that Canada
needs.
> > > >
> > >
> > > And most of them are too dense to realize that having 3-4 times as
many firearms
> > > homicides does little to support the idea that all those make them
safer.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Living in an urban area? Privately owned side arms are different.
> >
> > Rifles? I see no problem. Rifles are not used in crimes by and
large.
> >
> Canada's law against pistols has existed since 1933. There has not been
a
> change.
Canadians right to bare arms has existed since the 13th century as an
extention of the commonwealth. Supreme laws as these can not be modified by
statutes of legislatures... So those laws only apply to police, military and
those who consent to waving their rights..
"Here is a law which is above the King and Parliament, and which even He and
They must not and may not legally break. And in the event they or anyone
else were to try to abrogate it, such attempt at abrogation shall have no
force nor effect [1297] and can be safely ignored with no legal ill effect.
In addition, in the event of successful attempts at abrogation of such
liberties, customs, or rights, the King has commanded and do hereby compel
any and all subjects to swear oath to join the barons to assail the
properties and persons and families of those (saving the King, Queen and the
royal children) who had successfully completed such abrogation, including
but not limited to that of the individual Members of Parliament who had
voted in favour of any such successful attempts at abrogation [1215]. This
reaffirmation of a supreme law and its expression in a general charter is
the great work of Magna Carta; and this alone justifies the respect in which
men have held it."
--Quote by Sir Winston Churchill, 1956
Semper Libèr® .
"Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:alangbaker-9FA76B.10434110052008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
> In article <4825A9E7...@sympatico.ca>,
> Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The guy was in his bed at the time and had heart surgery, and you
fucking
> > > police stte idiots can't seem to grasp that here you have an 82 year
old
> > > man, then you have three RCMP officers in his hospital room and they
could
> > > have easily handled him without the use of a
> >
> > And fucking idiots like you can't understand a simple sentence without
being
recovering
> > from
> > heart surgery. He had had it some time before. He was described by
reporters
> > as
> > frail looking, but he didn't look or sound that frail in the video
interview.
> > He
> > is a retired prison guard, so likely knows how to fight and how to use a
> > knife. He was an armed with a knife and delusional. The taser was used
to
> > subdue and disarm him and they did it without causing any serious or
lasting
> > harm to him and none of the police or nursing staff were hurt.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Taser. What the fuck is wrong with you people. "They could have gone
in
> > > there and taken an old man without any trouble.
> >
> > No one in their right mind tries to take a knife away from a delusional
> > person.
>
> !. A pocket knife.
>
> 2. An *82* year old man.
>
> 3. I did.
OR you can just wait till their episode is finished. Its not unlike dealing
with someone high on hallucinogens.... unless they are an immediate threat,
the only thing you need is patience... which most of the Neanderthals in the
police today don't have.
Semper Libèr® .
"Paul Morgan" <he...@home.ca> wrote in message
news:440c241hg4bru12lc...@4ax.com...
Oh know! A man with cut wrists in a hospital! Whatever would they do?? Maybe
they should give him a lobotomy to prevent any other possible things he
might do?
Care to list any other things he MIGHT have done? Make a game of it maybe?
STFU!
: Paul Morgan wrote:
:
::: Not a problem for the same people who come to assist the medical
: staff. Then they could blame the nurses/doctors and/or police for not
: doing something to disarm the guy. It's a no win situation for the
: police when it comes to assholes like that. No matter what the police
: do they are wrong.
Yeah, that's because the police ARE WRONG asshole. You must've been
your dad's semen when back in the day cops actually communicated with
people, tried to calm them down, and treated them with respect and
dignity. Cops back then had to think on their toes, not to expect
their laptop or computer to do their thinking for them. They weren't so
gung ho to hurt someone or leave as quickly as possible so they can go
to the donut shop. They had common sense. Back then, it was a different
time and a different place. Nowadays, cops are lazy with no morals or a
sense what is right or wrong. Only what they've been told is right or
wrong, and what they can get away with. They have no social or
communication skills. They're bullies and thugs. If they're allowed to
shoot to kill they would, if they're told they can get away with it. I
know they enjoy watching how someone reacts when they're giving someone
a hard time, squirming, mishandled, or even shot. That's so evident
especially when they taser someone. Does anyone remember the Monty
Python Episode where they had this East Indian as a remote control?
They guy watching the tv enjoyed the EI getting zapped so he kept on
hitting the remote frequently so he could see the EI's physical
reaction. Cops these days are no different.
Semper Libèr® .
>
> "The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" <The General Public:..
> Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca> wrote in message
> >> Karen Gordon wrote:
> >>
> >> > "ronin" (ro...@ree.com) writes:
> >> > > Either ban Tasers or stop hiring such weak pussies for cops!!
> >> >
> >> > (K): Are they really "weak pussies" or bullies that should never have
> > been
> >> > allowed to be cops?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Tell us Karen, since the police can do nothing right in your eyes, do
you
> > want
> >> big strong bullies who can intimidate people with their size. strength
> >> and
> > gruff
> >> manner,
> >
> > Listen you little prick and police state fuck-up, the cops are out of
> > control and it time to shut down the RCMP, as who needs these scum
> > anyhow...
> >
> > The RCMP are just another terrorist group they should be tortured at all
> > costsd
>
What's the problem Rob? Worried you might have to memorize some more letters
of the alphabet?
We've already listed alternatives.... you should try paying more attention.
Just how much skill do you think someone needs to be a brutish thug anyway?
Police work is not brain surgery... If you have people skills, you are most
of the way home.
Nope
Nope
: "Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in message
: :
: OR you can just wait till their episode is finished. Its not unlike
: dealing with someone high on hallucinogens.... unless they are an
: immediate threat, the only thing you need is patience... which most
: of the Neanderthals in the police today don't have.
+ 1. Most cops these days are inpatient fucks!! If you're too slow to
respond to their COMMANDS like a dog, you'll be tasered. They love to
see you jump, don't they?
Semper Libèr® .
First of all, look up the word "community".... . and a Act is simily a
written guideline or mandate, which any group of people can form.
Robert, i know your government buddies told you that their Acts were given
to them by "assended masters" in beam ships... but in reality they were
written by ordinary men. Sorry to rock your world.
Alan Baker
Paul Morgan <he...@home.ca> wrote:
Wow. He could have cut his wrist...
...in a hospital. That would have been *so* dangerous.
But, wait..
...the officers could have *observed* him to make sure that nothing like
that happened.
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Alan Baker
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
I hate to tell you this, but the fact that someone is ordered to do
something by the police and then doesn't do it, doesn't give the police
leave to commit assault.
Semper Libèr® .
"Bob" <rk...@armageddon.info> wrote in message
news:5gcc249dsu2s2qadl...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 10 May 2008 19:09:16 GMT, "The General Public:... Lobotomized
Sheep"
> <The General Public:.. Lobotomized
> Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca> wrote:
>
> |>> When the hell have the RCMP defended anybody but themselves for
> |>> their cause....all you do is get to pay for their "police services"...
> |>
> |>Our community is looking at a new type of community police force, that
works
> |>with the people, not like the system in place now where the police think
> |>they are above the law.
>
> The Japs, Brits, and many Europeans disarmed the police itself,
> except for the ERTeam or Para/Military that have to be called on through a
> lot of channels to get to the bad action......
>
> To allow everyone to be armed like the
> USA is not a bad idea, since no one really knows who is carrying and who
> isn't....
Exactly.... Everyone can benefit from conceal carry. States that have
inhibited that right have some of the highest crime rates... like DC for
example. Vermont has no restriction on conceal carry, and you can compare
their gun death rate below...
..... deaths per 100k
District of Columbia ..33.45
Vermont ....0.58
notwithstanding all that, it happens to be a fundamental right. Infringement
of a right is an assault.
Robert McKenzie
"Semper Libèr® ." <.nopolicestates????!?~Hj...@freedom4all.org> wrote in
message news:RksVj.1934$KB3.1386@edtnps91...
Within limitations of the law. But not going any further than that with you
since you're obviously not
a lawyer and don't have a law degree. Go to Doug Christie, a Victoria lawyer
and he'll explain things
that you can and can't do.
>
> Robert, i know your government buddies told you that their Acts were given
> to them by "assended masters" in beam ships... but in reality they were
> written by ordinary men. Sorry to rock your world.
Sorry to rock yours. But those statuatory laws are there for a reason.
Explain your actions to the judge committed against one if you end up doing
so.
You can set up Community Watch which is good, but you'll have to turn over
anyone you've held with citizens arrest
to the police otherwise you'll have serious legal trouble comin.
Might even be good for you to get out there and do something decent rather
than farting in your chair and writing big
about your so-called legal expertise. A late night cruise around the
neighbourhood checking in with the local constabulary
from time to time in an organized community crime watch is what you might
need. And keep your sock puppet Mark at
home since community crime watch is no place for amateur vigilantes and
those who think they can take the law into their
own hands.
Sign up with the Esquimalt, Metchosin Saanich or Victoria Police Community
Watch this week.
Toss your so-called me first and I know the law crap into the garbage where
it belong first though. Actually learn how
to do community crime watch right, and not go off on your own ideas.
Nope
:
: I hate to tell you this, but the fact that someone is ordered to do
: something by the police and then doesn't do it, doesn't give the
: police leave to commit assault.
The way the RCMP is interpretting their manual, says it is. The same is
true in the USA. I saw an episode of COPS where some old drunk guy ran
out of his truck into the bushes and he just stood there. A trooper
threatened him that if he didn't move out of the bushes and follow his
instructions, he would be tasered.
Nope
:
: ...in a hospital. That would have been *so* dangerous.
:
: But, wait..
:
:
: ...the officers could have *observed* him to make sure that nothing
: like that happened.
Not quite. Your remark shows rationale thinking. Those 3 cops were not
rational, rather they were impulsive. The fact that the RCMP dispatch
brough 3 THREE members to the scene shows that they HAD to take drastic
action to justify their presence and this decision. The old man was a
major threat to everyone, you see, and had to be subdued even though he
was lying on the hospital bed.
Paul Morgan
wrote:
>In article <440c241hg4bru12lc...@4ax.com>,
> Paul Morgan <he...@home.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 17:43:41 GMT, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >> He has two little holes and a bit of bruising where the darts hit him.
>> >
>> >The man was *82* and could have been left alone to calm down.
>>
>>
>> And could have cut his own wrist.
>
>Wow. He could have cut his wrist...
>
>
>...in a hospital. That would have been *so* dangerous.
So cutting your wrist in a hospital isn't dangerous? You go and do it.
>
>But, wait..
>
>
>...the officers could have *observed* him to make sure that nothing like
>that happened.
Make up your mind, first you say he could have been left alone, now
the officers are to stay and observe.
Paul Morgan
Apart from the spelling mistakes (S).
Perhaps the hospital staff could have done their job and ensured the
patient didn't have anything dangerous to himself or others before
letting the whole thing degrade to the point where the police had to
be called in.
catchme
>
> I hate to tell you this, but the fact that someone is ordered to do
> something by the police and then doesn't do it, doesn't give the police
> leave to commit assault.
>
beautiful!
Dave Smith
>
> .
> OR you can just wait till their episode is finished. Its not unlike dealing
> with someone high on hallucinogens.... unless they are an immediate threat,
> the only thing you need is patience... which most of the Neanderthals in the
> police today don't have.
If you had read any of the news reports you would know that he was delusional
because his brain was starving for oxygen. If they had waited he probably would
have got worse. perhaps even have died. They could not afford to wait.
Dave Smith
>
> > not, so they tasered him, disarmed him and he was treated for the problem for
> > which
> > he had been taken to hospital.
>
> I hate to tell you this, but the fact that someone is ordered to do
> something by the police and then doesn't do it, doesn't give the police
> leave to commit assault.
Yes yes, and I hate to tell you that the old man was the one who committing an
assault. He was using his pocket knife in a manner that was threatening enough
that the hospital called the police.
Dave Smith
> Not quite. Your remark shows rationale thinking. Those 3 cops were not
> rational, rather they were impulsive. The fact that the RCMP dispatch
> brough 3 THREE members to the scene shows that they HAD to take drastic
> action to justify their presence and this decision. The old man was a
> major threat to everyone, you see, and had to be subdued even though he
> was lying on the hospital bed.
They were quick an efficient in disarming the man so that he no longer posed
a threat to himself and the medical staff. His delusional condition was
caused a lack of oxygen to the brain, a situation that needed to be
addressed before there was more brain damage and possible death. Waiting
would only have made things worse.
Maybe the next time there are there to deal with someone whose delusionan
knife wielding behaviour they should just stand back until the patient dies.
Problem solved.
Alan Baker
Paul Morgan <he...@home.ca> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 01:53:57 GMT, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <440c241hg4bru12lc...@4ax.com>,
> > Paul Morgan <he...@home.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 10 May 2008 17:43:41 GMT, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >> He has two little holes and a bit of bruising where the darts hit him.
> >> >
> >> >The man was *82* and could have been left alone to calm down.
> >>
> >>
> >> And could have cut his own wrist.
> >
> >Wow. He could have cut his wrist...
> >
> >
> >...in a hospital. That would have been *so* dangerous.
>
> So cutting your wrist in a hospital isn't dangerous? You go and do it.
>
> >
> >But, wait..
> >
> >
> >...the officers could have *observed* him to make sure that nothing like
> >that happened.
>
>
> Make up your mind, first you say he could have been left alone, now
> the officers are to stay and observe.
Yes. "left alone" in the sense of "not tasered".
Alan Baker
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
That is *not* an assault.
Alan Baker
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Why don't you quote one of these reports, because I read one of them and
that wasn't mentioned.
Dave Smith
>
> >
> > Make up your mind, first you say he could have been left alone, now
> > the officers are to stay and observe.
>
> Yes. "left alone" in the sense of "not tasered".
But the man was delusional as a result of oxygen deprivation, a problem that can
cause brain damage or even death. He could not be treated because he was delusional
and had a knife. The hospital called the police. If they did not act quickly, the
man might have died.
Alan Baker
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
I'm sorry, you haven't shown that that claim has any truth in it
whatsoever.
Dave Smith
>
> >
> > Yes yes, and I hate to tell you that the old man was the one who committing
> > an
> > assault. He was using his pocket knife in a manner that was threatening
> > enough
> > that the hospital called the police.
>
> That is *not* an assault.
You might want to check the law on that. Look at section 265 (1) of the Criminal
Code of Canada.
265. (1) A person commits an assault when
(a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that
other person, directly or indirectly;
(b) he attempts or threatens, by an act or a gesture, to apply force to another
person, if he has, or causes that other person to believe on reasonable grounds
that he has, present ability to effect his purpose; or
(c) while openly wearing or carrying a weapon or an imitation thereof, he accosts
or impedes another person or begs.
Technically, the old guy was threatening the medical staff. That is assault. He
may be old and delusional, but the fact remains that he was threatening enough to
them that they called the police. Sure, they could have rushed him and wrestled the
knife away from the old man, but that may have injured him and one of the cops
could have been slashed.
The taser did not kill him. It did not even injure him. The only lasting effect
was a set of small holes and a bit of bruising, and that despite his frail
condition. He was disarmed and got the medical treatment he needed.
Dave Smith
Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <4826D77B...@sympatico.ca>,
> Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > "Semper Libèr® ." wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > .
> > > OR you can just wait till their episode is finished. Its not unlike dealing
> > > with someone high on hallucinogens.... unless they are an immediate threat,
> > > the only thing you need is patience... which most of the Neanderthals in
> > > the
> > > police today don't have.
> >
> > If you had read any of the news reports you would know that he was delusional
> > because his brain was starving for oxygen. If they had waited he probably
> > would
> > have got worse. perhaps even have died. They could not afford to wait.
>
> Why don't you quote one of these reports, because I read one of them and
> that wasn't mentioned.
One of the articles I linked said "Lasser told CBC News that he sometimes becomes
delusional when he can't breathe properly."
In case you were unaware, the main reason that we breathe is to get oxygen.
Delusional behaviour is one of many symptoms than can arise when the brain is
starved of oxygen. Feel free to check it out.
Dave Smith
>
> >
> > But the man was delusional as a result of oxygen deprivation, a problem that
> > can
> > cause brain damage or even death. He could not be treated because he was
> > delusional
> > and had a knife. The hospital called the police. If they did not act quickly,
> > the
> > man might have died.
>
> I'm sorry, you haven't shown that that claim has any truth in it
> whatsoever.
Which claim is that?
Do you not believe that he had a knife?
Do you not believe that he was delusional?
Do you not believe that was the reason the police were called?
Do you not believe he had a breathing problem?
Do you not believe that he said that he sometimes becomes delusional when he has
trouble breathing?
Alan Baker
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
>
> >
> > >
> > > Yes yes, and I hate to tell you that the old man was the one who
> > > committing
> > > an
> > > assault. He was using his pocket knife in a manner that was threatening
> > > enough
> > > that the hospital called the police.
> >
> > That is *not* an assault.
>
> You might want to check the law on that. Look at section 265 (1) of the
> Criminal
> Code of Canada.
>
> 265. (1) A person commits an assault when
>
> (a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to
> that
> other person, directly or indirectly;
>
> (b) he attempts or threatens, by an act or a gesture, to apply force to
> another
> person, if he has, or causes that other person to believe on reasonable
> grounds
> that he has, present ability to effect his purpose; or
And you have presented no evidence that he so attempted or threatened,
nor have you presented any evidence that he had (or could cause anyone
to believe) the ability to carry out such a threat if it had been made.
>
> (c) while openly wearing or carrying a weapon or an imitation thereof, he
> accosts
> or impedes another person or begs.
>
>
> Technically, the old guy was threatening the medical staff. That is assault.
> He
> may be old and delusional, but the fact remains that he was threatening
> enough to
> them that they called the police. Sure, they could have rushed him and
> wrestled the
> knife away from the old man, but that may have injured him and one of the
> cops
> could have been slashed.
You've yet to show any evidence of that.
For all you know, he had his pocket knife out to cut his IV line.
As I already mentioned, I've actually disarmed an elderly man in the
emergency department of a hospital who was armed with a pocket knife,
and I wasn't armed with anything.
>
> The taser did not kill him. It did not even injure him. The only lasting
> effect
> was a set of small holes and a bit of bruising, and that despite his frail
> condition. He was disarmed and got the medical treatment he needed.
Of course it injured him. You admit as much.
Alan Baker
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
All that's as may be, but you don't know that that was the case. And
lack of oxygen will cause him to become unconscious long before it
causes any permanent damage, thereby letting him be disarmed and then
treated.
Alan Baker
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
That:
1. He as suffering from oxygen deprivation.
2. Such deprivation would have caused brain damage or death while in a
hospital where -- if it existed at all, it would have caused him to
become unconscious and thus have been disarmable without incident.
Dave Smith
>
> > > That is *not* an assault.
> >
> > You might want to check the law on that. Look at section 265 (1) of the
> > Criminal
> > Code of Canada.
> >
> > 265. (1) A person commits an assault when
> >
> > (a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to
> > that
> > other person, directly or indirectly;
> >
> > (b) he attempts or threatens, by an act or a gesture, to apply force to
> > another
> > person, if he has, or causes that other person to believe on reasonable
> > grounds
> > that he has, present ability to effect his purpose; or
>
> And you have presented no evidence that he so attempted or threatened,
> nor have you presented any evidence that he had (or could cause anyone
> to believe) the ability to carry out such a threat if it had been made.
Are you just acting thick or are you really that stupid. The police were not just
hanging around the hospital looking for some old fart to assault. As the linked
article said : "RCMP said nurses called police after Lasser became delirious and
pulled a knife out of his pocket."
>
>
> You've yet to show any evidence of that.
>
> For all you know, he had his pocket knife out to cut his IV line.
>
> As I already mentioned, I've actually disarmed an elderly man in the
> emergency department of a hospital who was armed with a pocket knife,
> and I wasn't armed with anything.
Maybe that is what the nurses should have done. In this case they did not. They
called the police.
> >
> > The taser did not kill him. It did not even injure him. The only lasting
> > effect
> > was a set of small holes and a bit of bruising, and that despite his frail
> > condition. He was disarmed and got the medical treatment he needed.
>
> Of course it injured him. You admit as much.
Two little pin pricks and tiny bruises?
Alan Baker
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Yup. And in my case, a nurse did just the same.
Only the man wasn't threatening anyone.
>
> >
> >
> > You've yet to show any evidence of that.
> >
> > For all you know, he had his pocket knife out to cut his IV line.
> >
> > As I already mentioned, I've actually disarmed an elderly man in the
> > emergency department of a hospital who was armed with a pocket knife,
> > and I wasn't armed with anything.
>
> Maybe that is what the nurses should have done. In this case they did not.
> They
> called the police.
Which doesn't prove there was any threatening.
>
> > >
> > > The taser did not kill him. It did not even injure him. The only lasting
> > > effect
> > > was a set of small holes and a bit of bruising, and that despite his
> > > frail
> > > condition. He was disarmed and got the medical treatment he needed.
> >
> > Of course it injured him. You admit as much.
>
> Two little pin pricks and tiny bruises?
Yup.
Injury.
Semper Libèr® .
"Robert LaCasse" <The_Smo...@MJ12.info> wrote in message
news:tpqb24h6r4qlb2njk...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 10 May 2008 00:53:00 GMT, catchme <som...@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
> |>the police are in the position of authority precisely because they carry
> |>the responsibility to both protect AND serve the public.
>
> What they do is carry a "gun", and there is no clause in their
> effect that says they have to "protect AND serve the public"....it's not
> even a Hippocratic oath anymore...
>
> |>Understandably sometimes the stress overwhelms an officer and colours
> |>their perspective, but nonetheless their uniform represents the publics'
> |>TRUST.
>
> The public Trusts a uniform.....right they think you are what you
> wear, that must be their new hat philosophy to wear on Halloween...
>
> |>An officer is supposedly trained not just to react in a certain way to a
> |>situation, but to determine the BEST RESPONSE to it.
> |>If the current police training removes their ability to think and act
> |>decisively for the benefit of everyone's interests, then its time to
> |>rewrite the book.
>
> Most of the physical trainning is an exercise to baton and taser you
> as they take turns to batter you on the Field Trips they are exercised
> in...if you don't go down, they shoot you....
>
> |>Seriously, since when did we the public give the police the right to act
> |>like brown shirt gestapos?
>
> The public don't tell the RCMP/Police what to, try it sometime, you'll be
> drinking through a straw for a long time....
That pretty much defines the fact they no longer have legitimate authority.
The Great Charter gives us a command to assail all enemies of our
constitution.
All government authority comes from the people, otherwise they are an
adversary.... Which is why 'the people' will always have the right to bear
arms, due to the fact that government can overstep its boundry, and the
right of the people to revolt or otherwise preserve and defend their rights
is ABSOLUTE.
Its amazing how much of this reality has been leeched out of the public
consciousness due to government propaganda and social programing...
> They have RCMP brown shirt dress codes, ever since they patched an
> association with Adolph Hitler in 1920 were they wore the Tit Hat, and he
> wore the Black Austrian Cap.....I had/have a picture of that from way back
> when Hitler had a full mini handlebar mustache....
The RCMP also started out with a heavy masonic influence, while the Nazis
were part of the skull and bones Russell Trust group, which was a
clandestine masonic order that evolved from the Opium trade.. they put the
skull and bones on their uniform. Our RCMP are one of the main controlers of
much of the drug trade in this country as well.
Check out the masonic symbols on these early RCMP patches.
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/images/Copy%20of%20patch3.jpg
Have a look at this W5 report on how the RCMP worked with meth dealers and
various other criminals to get passports for entry into Canada...
Its in three parts.... This story has since been purged from their original
archives. I hope everyone grasps the significance of this story.... Some may
need to watch it several times for it to really sink in, and to see how high
the corruption goes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ7K9eCkETQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky2btuBEyjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F1MouuutHE
Semper Libèr® .
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4824BF2B...@sympatico.ca...
> "The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" wrote:
>
> >
> > > Tell us Karen, since the police can do nothing right in your eyes, do
you
> > want
> > > big strong bullies who can intimidate people with their size. strength
and
> > gruff
> > > manner,
> >
> > Listen you little prick and police state fuck-up, the cops are out of
> > control and it time to shut down the RCMP, as who needs these scum
anyhow...
>
knife.
> What should they have done?
Why should anyone answer this, when you won't tell us what a member of the
public is supposed to do to defend themselves?
You have little hesitation to go out of your way to explain why the police
should be able to discharge all manner of weapons on the unarmed or
delusional elderly patience in hospital... but you refuse to explain what
any law abiding citizen of the public is supposed to do if they are openly
attacked or confronted. You are a total hypocrite.... a toadie for the
oppressive and unlawful conduct of the police.
The police better start examining who the hell they work for... what rule of
law means... and who they want as their supporters... and they will NOT get
that until they support AND DEFEND OUR RIGHT to carry and use reasonable
force to lawfully defend ourselves.
That is the way it is.... The people are finally waking up to their rightful
place in this structure. So the police better get with the program, or they
will feel the sting of an enraged public soon enough.
catchme
something in that post does not add up....
this man would be gasping for breath, and likely having a stroke or
other seizure.
tasering this person in such a state, well its lucky that they DIDNT
kill him, too!
how many more of such incidences are needed?
i have a better idea- have police use defibrillators instead, and man
the o.r.s
if cops want to play with electrodes, they can put them to good use.
failing that, they can stick the taser ends up their sphincters.
catchme
> Alan Baker wrote:
>
>
> Yes yes, and I hate to tell you that the old man was the one who committing an
> assault. He was using his pocket knife in a manner that was threatening enough
> that the hospital called the police.
>
>
please, a man who you claim to be oxygen starved, is now committing assault?
straw-man.....
Robert McKenzie
"Semper Libèr® ." <.nopolicestates????!?~Hj...@freedom4all.org> wrote in
message news:XgsVj.1931$KB3.1206@edtnps91...
>
> "Robert McKenzie" <rob...@makz.org> wrote in message
> news:2f6Vj.1324$Yp.759@edtnps92...
>>
>> "The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" <The General Public:..
>> Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca> wrote in
>> message
>> news:Ku2Vj.1275$Yp.110@edtnps92...>> > news:4824AE97...@sympatico.ca...
>> >> Karen Gordon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "ronin" (ro...@ree.com) writes:
>> >> > > Either ban Tasers or stop hiring such weak pussies for cops!!
>> >> >
>> >> > (K): Are they really "weak pussies" or bullies that should never
>> >> > have
>> > been
>> >> > allowed to be cops?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Tell us Karen, since the police can do nothing right in your eyes, do
> you
>> > want
>> >> big strong bullies who can intimidate people with their size. strength
>> >> and
>> > gruff
>> >> manner,
>> >
>> > Listen you little prick and police state fuck-up, the cops are out of
>> > control and it time to shut down the RCMP, as who needs these scum
>> > anyhow...
>> >
>> > all
>> > costsd
>>
>> and what would the RCMP be replaced with?
>
> What's the problem Rob? Worried you might have to memorize some more
> letters
> of the alphabet?
What exactly is your problem? Worried that there might be another police
force you don't like?
>
> We've already listed alternatives.... you should try paying more
> attention.
> Just how much skill do you think someone needs to be a brutish thug
> anyway?
> Police work is not brain surgery... If you have people skills, you are
> most
> of the way home.
There isn't much skill i being a brutish thug. Do yourself a favour and look
in the mirror in your house. You'll see an example
of an incredibily stupid person who thinks law and order in his own mind and
would be a perfect candidate for a crossing
guard. Do that and then maybe you can move up to street patrol, that is if
the Saanich police will even talk to you.
>
>
catchme
and tasering a man who by your account of losing oxygen to his brain- he
would be suffering a stroke, maybe even mild seizures...?
absolutely he would be hyperventilating.
is this a good candidate for shock treatment?
all he needed im sure, is a calm steady voice to reassure him, to remind
him to breathe.
Robert McKenzie
Not exactly, since much of the authority of the Great Charter was abandoned
in the late 1800's by a British
Act of Parliament, and left it with the basic fundamentals.
>
> All government authority comes from the people, otherwise they are an
> adversary.... Which is why 'the people' will always have the right to bear
> arms, due to the fact that government can overstep its boundry, and the
> right of the people to revolt or otherwise preserve and defend their
> rights
> is ABSOLUTE.
That power comes from democratically elected represenatives, not the people
directly.
and sorry the right to bear arms does not exist in Canada as it does in the
United States.
There's no Canadian Constitutional provision for the rights to bear arms.
>
> Its amazing how much of this reality has been leeched out of the public
> consciousness due to government propaganda and social programing...
Its amazing how much you still don't get.
But keep trying. Your interpretations of Canadian statutory law and its
applications are comical.
You should try for First Year Law at UVic.
Semper Libèr® .
> Nope wrote:
>
> > Not quite. Your remark shows rationale thinking. Those 3 cops were not
> > rational, rather they were impulsive. The fact that the RCMP dispatch
> > brough 3 THREE members to the scene shows that they HAD to take drastic
> > action to justify their presence and this decision. The old man was a
> > major threat to everyone, you see, and had to be subdued even though he
> > was lying on the hospital bed.
>
> They were quick an efficient in disarming the man so that he no longer
posed
> a threat to himself and the medical staff.
I notice you keep throwing the 'threat to himself' stuff in there... even
though we have no evidence to support that.
The Nazis were 'quick and efficient' at their job too.... Problem is, the
police are not supposed to rush to judgement when it comes to using force,
as they took an oath to preserve and keep the peace, and protect all with a
minimum of force. There is nothing about a speedy and efficient use of force
in their mandate to the public...
Do you support members of the public who make 'quick and efficient'
judgements about using weapons to defend themselves? Or is this just a
privilege you extend to government servants?
catchme
> Alan Baker wrote:
>
>>> Yes yes, and I hate to tell you that the old man was the one who committing
>>> an
>>> assault. He was using his pocket knife in a manner that was threatening
>>> enough
>>> that the hospital called the police.
>> That is *not* an assault.
>
> You might want to check the law on that. Look at section 265 (1) of the Criminal
> Code of Canada.
>
> 265. (1) A person commits an assault when
>
> (a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that
> other person, directly or indirectly;
>
intent is the key here- since he was 'delusional', and also since he was
panicked for lack of air, you cannot argue that his intent was to injure.
this man was quite simply, panicked.
im curious to know how it came about that what with so many medical
staff, none could recognise that he was in need of serious attention (if
indeed his brain was starved of oxygen).
he would have been gasping and his pupils quite expanded, his movements
would be arratic- possibly he would also have been having a stroke.
to further his panic, no medical staff would come to his assistance, but
instead stand around him.
how he came about getting a knife, he nonetheless appeared to think that
displaying it would get the help he needed.
perhaps the police should have arrested the medical staff charged for
his care?
catchme
that would erase your case for assault, which requires intent.
Semper Libèr® .
"Paul Morgan" <he...@home.ca> wrote in message
news:2hhd24l88ehui88js...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 01:53:57 GMT, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <440c241hg4bru12lc...@4ax.com>,
> > Paul Morgan <he...@home.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 10 May 2008 17:43:41 GMT, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >> He has two little holes and a bit of bruising where the darts hit
him.
> >> >
> >> >The man was *82* and could have been left alone to calm down.
> >>
> >>
> >> And could have cut his own wrist.
> >
> >Wow. He could have cut his wrist...
> >
> >
> >...in a hospital. That would have been *so* dangerous.
>
> So cutting your wrist in a hospital isn't dangerous? You go and do it.
What evidence is there that he was definately going to do that?
Oh, and just for your information, it is not really "dangerous" because it
would take several hours to bleed to death by cutting your wrist. So
presumably the hospital would know how to treat such an injury in that
amount of time. While otoh, we know that tasers can kill people...
especially those with a heart condition. Heck, we all know that now... its
been in the news repeatedly... So how stupid are these cops?
catchme
--
To the States or any one of them, or any city of the States,
Resist much, obey little,
Once unquestioning obedience, once fully enslaved,
Once fully enslaved, no nation, state, city of this earth,
ever after-ward resumes its liberty.
-Walt Whitman, 1860
Semper Libèr® .
"Nope" <no...@none.com> wrote in message
news:mRsVj.131143$Cj7.76485@pd7urf2no...
> Alan Baker wrote:
> :
> : I hate to tell you this, but the fact that someone is ordered to do
> : something by the police and then doesn't do it, doesn't give the
> : police leave to commit assault.
>
> true in the USA. I saw an episode of COPS where some old drunk guy ran
> out of his truck into the bushes and he just stood there. A trooper
> threatened him that if he didn't move out of the bushes and follow his
> instructions, he would be tasered.
That's the real motivation for tasering this old man. The police didn't care
about his welfare, they tasered him because he didn't bow down to their
authority. The 'concern for his safety' is the pretext they use to shield
their real motivation. Usually the public buys it.
Meanwhile the police are stepping up their oppression of the publics use of
lawful force, or right to carry for a lawful purpose. While they demand
bigger guns and armour, and a 'free use of force' card for themselves. This
is a dangerous development. The only good news is that the public is
becoming aware of the fact that the police are more of an impediment to the
peace and our liberty than an asset.
Dave Smith
>
> >
> > You might want to check the law on that. Look at section 265 (1) of the Criminal
> > Code of Canada.
> >
> > 265. (1) A person commits an assault when
> >
> > (a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that
> > other person, directly or indirectly;
> >
>
> intent is the key here- since he was 'delusional', and also since he was
> panicked for lack of air, you cannot argue that his intent was to injure.
> this man was quite simply, panicked.
I never argued that there was a sane intent to kill or maim. He was delirious.
> im curious to know how it came about that what with so many medical
> staff, none could recognise that he was in need of serious attention (if
> indeed his brain was starved of oxygen).
I don't think there is any reason to suggest that they didn't realize what the problem
was, only that they feared enough for their safety that they called police. Apparently
they were not willing to try to work on the guy or to try to disarm him, so they called
the police.
Dave Smith
>
> >>>> OR you can just wait till their episode is finished. Its not unlike dealing
> >>>> with someone high on hallucinogens.... unless they are an immediate threat,
> >>>> the only thing you need is patience... which most of the Neanderthals in
> >>>> the
> >>>> police today don't have.
> >>> If you had read any of the news reports you would know that he was delusional
> >>> because his brain was starving for oxygen. If they had waited he probably
> >>> would
> >>> have got worse. perhaps even have died. They could not afford to wait.
> >> Why don't you quote one of these reports, because I read one of them and
> >> that wasn't mentioned.
> >
> > One of the articles I linked said "Lasser told CBC News that he sometimes becomes
> > delusional when he can't breathe properly."
> >
> > In case you were unaware, the main reason that we breathe is to get oxygen.
> > Delusional behaviour is one of many symptoms than can arise when the brain is
> > starved of oxygen. Feel free to check it out.
> >
> >
>
> that would erase your case for assault, which requires intent.
No. It is still assault. We are not talking about laying charges, because he obviously
did not have intent to make it a criminal matter.
Dave Smith
>
> >
>
> something in that post does not add up....
> this man would be gasping for breath, and likely having a stroke or
> other seizure.
> tasering this person in such a state, well its lucky that they DIDNT
> kill him, too!
Christ! He should be thanking his lucky stars that they used it and disarmed him so
that he could get the medical help he needed before he suffered more brain damage. As
it turned out, he suffered only a few seconds of serious pain and ended up with a
couple of tiny puncture wounds and a bit of bruising. He could have died. This is a
case where a taser saved his life.
Semper Libèr® .
> Alan Baker wrote:
>
> >
> > > not, so they tasered him, disarmed him and he was treated for the
problem for
> > > which
> > > he had been taken to hospital.
> >
> > I hate to tell you this, but the fact that someone is ordered to do
> > something by the police and then doesn't do it, doesn't give the police
> > leave to commit assault.
>
committing an
> assault. He was using his pocket knife in a manner that was threatening
enough
> that the hospital called the police.
Just out of curiosity: Did it even once occur to you that he might have had
a lawful right to use his knife to defend himself?
I can post for you HUNDREDS of cases of patience (particularly elderly ones)
who have been assaulted in hospitals and care facilities... It is so easy to
cover up this kind of abuse by simply telling everyone that the person is
"delusional" and "paranoid"....
Dave Smith
>
> >
> > They were quick an efficient in disarming the man so that he no longer
> posed
> > a threat to himself and the medical staff.
>
> I notice you keep throwing the 'threat to himself' stuff in there... even
> though we have no evidence to support that.
Who knows what a delirious person with a knife will do. While he may not have
slashed himself, brandishing the knife in that state prevented him from
receiving life saving procedures.
Semper Libèr® .
> "Semper Libèr® ." wrote:
>
> >
> > .
dealing
> > with someone high on hallucinogens.... unless they are an immediate
threat,
> > the only thing you need is patience... which most of the Neanderthals in
the
> > police today don't have.
>
> If you had read any of the news reports you would know that he was
delusional
> because his brain was starving for oxygen.
Oh Pleeease.... oxygen starvation causes yawning, then unconsciouness, not
paranoid delusions....
If this is from the news, there may be more to this story, but not in
support of the police assault.
> If they had waited he probably would
> have got worse. perhaps even have died. They could not afford to wait.
So this barely conscious, oxygen starved man was a threat that needed to be
subdued... Man I love how this story gets better and better the more light
we shed on it.
Alan Baker
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Since you claim he was suffering from oxygen deprivation, he would
shortly have gone unconscious and he could have then been disarmed
without trouble and before suffering brain damage.
Alan Baker
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
You have no evidence that he suffered any brain damage nor that he was
going to suffer any.
Semper Libèr® .
> >>
> >> "The General Public:... Lobotomized Sheep" <The General Public:..
> >> Lobotomized Sheep....@..999.2012..WBCHNC.News.ukuscan.ca> wrote in
> >> message
> >> >
> >> > "Robert LaCasse" <falun...@beijing.info> wrote in message
> >> > news:aeqb24djs6ljtr3fd...@4ax.com...
> >> >> On Sat, 10 May 2008 00:45:50 GMT, "Robert McKenzie"
<rob...@makz.org>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> |>> Listen you little prick and police state fuck-up, the cops are
out
> > of
> >> >> |>> control and it time to shut down the RCMP, as who needs these
scum
> >> >> |>> anyhow...
> >> >> |>>
> >> >> |>> The RCMP are just another terrorist group they should be
tortured
> > at
> >> > all
> >> >> |>> costsd
> >> >> |>
> >> >> |>and what would the RCMP be replaced with?
> >> >> |>
> >> >>
> >> >> thought to remember....
> >> >>
> >> >> When the hell have the RCMP defended anybody but themselves for
> >> >> their cause....all you do is get to pay for their "police
services"...
> >> >
> >> > Our community is looking at a new type of community police force,
that
> >> > works
> >> > with the people, not like the system in place now where the police
> >> > think
> >> > they are above the law.
> >>
> >> Even that "community police force" will have to operate within the
Police
> >> Act, and any federal statuatory acts that
> >> affect policing.
> >
> > First of all, look up the word "community".... . and a Act is simily a
> > written guideline or mandate, which any group of people can form.
>
> Within limitations of the law.
and the law comes from where, Robert.... beam ships?? or people like you and
me?
How many times have i gone over this with you now?
Do you remember what you need to do first to form a law?
> > Robert, i know your government buddies told you that their Acts were
given
> > to them by "assended masters" in beam ships... but in reality they were
> > written by ordinary men. Sorry to rock your world.
>
> Sorry to rock yours. But those statuatory laws are there for a reason.
statutory laws????? You confuse yourself damn easy. Statutes are legislative
regulations.... which is why they are changed and modified all the time,
because they are membership rules. Law doesn't change, but for its
reapplication to new situtations. We've had the LAW long before Canada ever
existed.
Dave Smith
>
>
> Just out of curiosity: Did it even once occur to you that he might have had
> a lawful right to use his knife to defend himself?
The Criminal Code of Canada makes provision for self defense.What would you
suggest that he was defending himself from? He was very delirious. He brandished
a knife and the people trying to treat him felt threatened enough that they
called the police.
>
> I can post for you HUNDREDS of cases of patience (particularly elderly ones)
> who have been assaulted in hospitals and care facilities... It is so easy to
> cover up this kind of abuse by simply telling everyone that the person is
> "delusional" and "paranoid"....
Yeah, right. , and you are well on your way there.
Dave Smith
> > If you had read any of the news reports you would know that he was
> delusional
> > because his brain was starving for oxygen.
>
> Oh Pleeease.... oxygen starvation causes yawning, then unconsciouness, not
> paranoid delusions....
>
> If this is from the news, there may be more to this story, but not in
> support of the police assault.
This is from the interview with the subject of the tasering. He said that he
gets delsuional when he has trouble breathing....getting oxygen.
>
> > If they had waited he probably would
> > have got worse. perhaps even have died. They could not afford to wait.
>
> So this barely conscious, oxygen starved man was a threat that needed to be
> subdued... Man I love how this story gets better and better the more light
> we shed on it.
He was enough of a threat that the nurses called the police.