We, the ICC, no longer recognize the government of Canada!
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
To: Canadian Citizens
"Declaration of Independence"
Independent Citizens of Canada
ICC
We, the ICC, no longer recognize the government of Canada!
It is unconstitutional.
It is inaccessible
It is incompetent.
It is corrupt.
It is guilty of torture and terrorism against it's own people.
When the government no longer listens to Canadians and does not provide a
means of
access to it's representatives, we no longer listen to it.
We will no longer vote.
We will no longer pay taxes. ( We will shelter them instead)
The Canadian government has for over 25 years, systematically deprived
Canadian parents and Children of their Constitutional Rights and Freedoms as
guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The Divorce/DV
Industry is the biggest scam perpetuated against it's own citizens by the
government, both Federal and Provincial.
The Canadian government has eliminated all legal access to Canadian
Charter of Rights and Freedoms. There are no human rights legal firms in
Canada willing to uphold the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
The Canadian government has implemented the most cruel, corrupt,
adversarial and abusive Divorce legislation in the world and imposed this on
each and every citizen.
The Canadian government has created a multi billion dollar profit sharing
enterprise- The Divorce /DV Industry to deprive it's citizens of their
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and their families.
The Canadian government is unaccountable in any way to complaints and
reforms. There is simply no way that a victim is able to receive any
accountability, compensation or justice in Canada.
The Canadian government rewards it's political allies, elected and
appointed representatives at the expense of all Canadian citizens.
The Canadian government's taxation system is one of the worlds most
punitive and excessive.
It cripples Canadians' financially while servicing and rewarding the
bloated layers of bureaucracy.
The Canadian government does not hold accountable any of it's
representatives.
The provincial governments of Canada are nothing more than incompetent
middle man of the Canadian government. They simply add more layers of
expensive bureaucracy and costs to the citizens.
We Want:
1. The immediate dissolution of the Canadian government as being
unconstitutional.
2. The immediate abolition of all custody, access, maintenance and spousal
orders to be replaced by equal parenting orders. No payments. Unlimited
access to our children. Equal distribution of matrimonial property.
3. The immediate implementation of Equal Divorce.
4. Massive tax cuts. Taxes should be no more than 10%. This forces the
next government to be more efficient.
5. The immediate implementation and upholding of Canadian Charter of
Rights and Freedoms for everyone.
6. Criminal charges laid against every government body, department and
government official who violated our Canadian Charter of Rights and
Freedoms.
7. The refund of all government enforced child maintenance and spousal
support payments plus interest to the paying parent, by the government and
the custodial parent.
8. The immediate implementation of a truly non partisan and effective
human rights commission that will have unlimited capabilities to enforce the
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
9. The closure of all Family and Children Services that remove Children
from their parents based on hearsay, insufficient evidence or incompetence.
10. We want the immediate return to their parents of all Children seized
by Family and Children Services.
11. The election of judges to the bench. Their mandate being to uphold the
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms at all costs.
12. A tax shelter system that allows victims of Canadian Charter of Rights
and Freedoms abuses, to shelter their taxes until their complaint is
resolved.
13. Restore justice, freedom and equal opportunity in Canada.
14. Equal Gender funding of any organization, group, individual or cause.
If one dollar is spent on gender specific (Status of Women, women's
transition houses etc.) politics the same amount must be spent on the other
gender politics.
15. We want financial compensation for victims for their pain and
suffering.
16. We want the immediate release of prisoners who have been incarcerated
in the fight for access to their children, their families and defending
themselves and their families against police and government oppression.
17. We want government oppression of families and citizens to stop!
18. We would like Canada to set a good example to the rest of the world.
The world is suffering from an epidemic of civil rights violations against
the family.
Independent Citizens of Canada
Founders Connie Brauer and Vic Harris
For more information, visit http://www.stopthetorture.info
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
--
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless
minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." -Samuel Adams
Alan Wellington Scott
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in message
news:iRQZc.87392$X12.47453@edtnps84...
> http://www.petitiononline.com/free9104/petition.html
>
> To: Canadian Citizens
> "Declaration of Independence"
(...)
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
All 6 of them.
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
"Alan Wellington Scott" <greenl...@yahoo.se> wrote in message
news:2pq5eaF...@uni-berlin.de...
Are you supporting government terrorism.....instead of the message
Tylêr__Ðû®denø3.
Apathy to the rampant and systemic corruption of our pirate government will
be the downfall of Canada..... Thanks for pointing out to all of us just how
apathetic Canadians are.
700 Billion in the hole and counting...... . lots of time left, eh folks?
hahaha...
catchmerevisited
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN wrote on 9/2/04 7:41 PM:
can we do this?
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
"catchmerevisited" <catchmerev...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:BD5D5239.E755%catchmerev...@yahoo.ca...
> in article iRQZc.87392$X12.47453@edtnps84, Frank Rivers...... at Frank
> Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN wrote on 9/2/04 7:41 PM:
>
> > http://www.petitiononline.com/free9104/petition.html
> >
> > To: Canadian Citizens
> > "Declaration of Independence"
> >
> > Independent Citizens of Canada
> >
> >
For the sake of Freedom and Liberty," we the people sure can..".
Unless you believe the Government of Canada can rule with the Iron Fists
no different then Nazism and castrate you for the sake of political correct
socialism.
Heidi Graw
>"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
> Frank wrote:
> For the sake of Freedom and Liberty," we the people sure can..".
...just bear in mind that Lady Liberty demands the blood sacrifice. Do the
body count. Wherever and whenever people sought freedoms, *millions* died
at Lady Liberty's feet. Throughout history, in numbers too vast to count,
people sacrificed themselves, their families, their friends, their
neighbours, strangers, and even little children for the sake of Liberty.
And, to maintain and defend Liberty, a constant supply of sacrificial
"lambs" are needed. If they aren't voluntary sacrifices, we conscript them
into sacrificing themselves. This goddess is definitely a blood-thirsty
one. She demands your blood and your hard labour. The results? Arguable.
It seems to me no matter how many people we sacrifice at the altar of
Liberty, we don't seem to be getting ahead in any way. Sure, instead of
being field slaves we're now corporate slaves, and instead of wearing rags,
we're wearing designer clothes. Today's slave is somewhat more comfortable
than the slave of years gone by. But, how much *freer* are we today than
yester-year? Despite the untold millions, nay billions, who've died for the
sake of Freedom, what has *actually* changed? Not much! Who *actually*
benefits? Not many.
Question: Can there be Liberty without the blood sacrifice?
Heidi
David Deilley
> The Canadian government's taxation system is one of the worlds most
> punitive and excessive.
That is simply a lie.
Canada's overall tax burden are in the bottom third of the
industrialized countries, and are used to pay the monthly welfare
cheque for Mark Hansel.
David Deilley
>
> Unless you believe the Government of Canada can rule with the Iron Fists
> no different then Nazism and castrate you for the sake of political correct
> socialism.
I had dinner this week with someone whose parents were persecuted by
the Nazis, and who was born in a DP camp in Europe after WWII. If you
are unable to tell the difference between Canada and Nazi Germany, not
only do you disrespect the memory of those who dies in the camps or
onthe battlefields, but you also demonstrate your complete ignorance
of history, your simple-mindedness and your lack of perspective on
life.
It is hard to believe that someone as ridiculed as you is able to
marginalize himself even further - but you manage to do so on a daily
basis with stupid comments like this.
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
"David Deilley" <david_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:5eed1cbb.04090...@posting.google.com...
> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote
> >
> > For the sake of Freedom and Liberty," we the people sure can..".
> > Unless you believe the Government of Canada can rule with the Iron Fists
> > no different then Nazism and castrate you for the sake of political
correct
> > socialism.
>
> I had dinner this week with someone whose parents were persecuted by
> the Nazis, and who was born in a DP camp in Europe after WWII. If you
> are unable to tell the difference between Canada and Nazi Germany, not
> only do you disrespect the memory of those who dies in the camps or
> onthe battlefields, but you also demonstrate your complete ignorance
> of history,
You are one of the most saddest people I've ever seen in NG, not only can
you not tell the harm the Canadian government has done to children and their
fathers in this country but you can't even see what it is about. But then
again you said you know nothing of the issues, should I post your claims. I
save them whenever you need to be bitch-slap for your stupidity.
your simple-mindedness and your lack of perspective on
> life.
>
> It is hard to believe that someone as ridiculed as you is able to
> marginalize himself even further - but you manage to do so on a daily
> basis with stupid comments like this.
Then David, you will be in one of those camps being made out in the middle
of nowhere. The difference between cowardly idiots like you, and people like
me, is I am willing to fight, for what I believe in, at any cost. "Even if
it means bloodshed".
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
>
> > The Canadian government's taxation system is one of the worlds most
> > punitive and excessive.
As Tyler pointed out about clowns like you, Apathy to the rampant and
systemic corruption of our pirate government will
be the downfall of Canada..... Thanks for pointing out to all of us just how
apathetic Canadians are.
700 Billion in the hole and counting......
As long as you keep taking your medication, you can keep thinking the
Government will keep you safe and warm with thief and terrorism.
>
> That is simply a lie.
This Stupidity of yours, only shows you believe government lies and theft.
>
> Canada's overall tax burden are in the bottom third of the
> industrialized countries, and are used to pay the monthly welfare
> cheque for Mark Hansel.
Davidism, if your going to make false claims about people, at least have the
guts, to post your evince in your claims to show what you say is true,
otherwise your cowardly actions only show what sniveling socialist freaks
are about, "lies, misdirection, ignorance and malice, all for the sake of
corruption, greed, lust of power and supporting government terrorism on it's
citizen's..
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
"Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:oJWZc.295328$M95.191024@pd7tw1no...
There is a strong feeling among victims of the Divorce Industry to dissolve
the corrupt federal government, or to simply separate.
And bloodshed is most likey... The next thing to happen, to save our
Freedoms and Libertys and children's fate, from the government's terrorism
on it citizen's.
As F4J get more political, bloodshed is only a matter of time..
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
Barney
writtennews:5eed1cbb.04090...@posting.google.com:
> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN>
> wrote
>>
>> For the sake of Freedom and Liberty,
>
> It is hard to believe that someone as ridiculed as you is able to
> marginalize himself even further - but you manage to do so on a
> daily basis with stupid comments like this.
>
He calls posters names as well. No need to say more.
--
__________________________________________________________
"I'm not into name calling. That's best left to the Morons and
Idiots"
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
"Barney" <sh...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9559685BE8E6D...@130.133.1.4...
> david_...@yahoo.ca (David Deilley) had
> writtennews:5eed1cbb.04090...@posting.google.com:
>
> > "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN>
> > wrote
> >>
> >> For the sake of Freedom and Liberty,
>
>
> >
> > It is hard to believe that someone as ridiculed as you is able to
> > marginalize himself even further - but you manage to do so on a
> > daily basis with stupid comments like this.
> >
>
> He calls posters names as well. No need to say more.
You can't stop what is coming Barney, as people are not putting up with this
government and police terrorism and corruprtion...
Besides the police are being exposed for letting in Drug lords ,and taking
passport pay off's. Keep trying to save face, as your not going to stop the
truth about your kind of people.
Barney
writtennews:I_0_c.84592$A8.53461@edtnps89:
> "David Deilley" <david_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:5eed1cbb.04090...@posting.google.com...
>> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN>
>> wrote
>> >
> I am willing to fight, for what I
> believe in, at any cost. "Even if it means bloodshed".
>
>
It's what you believe that must be scarey to yourself. You live in
your own world of conspiracies. Perhaps the "Alluminatus Trilogy" by
Robert Shea & Robert Anton Wilson, would be a better read for you,
then being on the computer.
It was at one time required reading for paranoids.
catchmerevisited
wrote on 9/3/04 2:22 AM:
when our Liberties are being stripped of us, who will NOT take up the call
to resurrect Democracy?
Barney
> "Barney" <sh...@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9559685BE8E6D...@130.133.1.4...
>> david_...@yahoo.ca (David Deilley) had
>> writtennews:5eed1cbb.04090...@posting.google.com:
>>
>> > "Frank Rivers......" <Frank
>> > Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote
>> >>
>> >> For the sake of Freedom and Liberty,
>>
. Keep trying to save face, as your
> not going to stop the truth about your kind of people.
My kind of people are the average person who works hard to make ends
meet,struggles with the day to day events and try their best to keep
their familys happy and then runs across people like you who says
they are not good enough. Your people say only they know whats right
and whats wrong and only they know the real truth. Your people want
to rule the world because they think their ideas are better. WELL
STICK IT!
catchmerevisited
david_...@yahoo.ca wrote on 9/3/04 7:16 AM:
persecution in Canada is more an implied thing, rather than explicit: rather
than made to feel like we are ruled by an Iron Fist, we are instead
subjected to mental tortures and otherwise made to feel that the difference
between whether we are prisoners behind bars, or prisoners within Society,
is a matter of degree.
notritenoteri
bulk?
"Alan Wellington Scott" <greenl...@yahoo.se> wrote in message
news:2pq5eaF...@uni-berlin.de...
>
Heidi Graw
(snip)
> > Question: Can there be Liberty without the blood sacrifice?
> >
> > Heidi
> catchmerevisited wrote:
> when our Liberties are being stripped of us, who will NOT take up the call
> to resurrect Democracy?
Oh lucky me....I get a choice of tyrants to elect. And for this I'm
supposed lay down my life and the lives of my sons. Millions of men died so
I could watch a range of television channels and pick and choose the
newspapers I may want to read. An outrageous number of uncounted and unnamed
civilians died so I could shop at the mall to buy French perfume. More
recently, tens of thousands of people are being slaughtered so I can drive
my car.
When I look at all the stuff I have and all the freedoms I'm supposed to
enjoy, I cannot forget the carnage it took so I could at the flick of a
switch possess that light.
Yes, for the sake of Freedom, *billions* have died over the course of
history. And every day, more and more are led to the slaughter to appease
the Lady Liberty. And I'm supposed to rejoice at this bloodshed. <sigh>
Heidi
Rob Lake
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in message
"You're either with us or against us!" You don't support all of my causes so that
makes you a terrorist sympathiser in the eyes beholden to my views!
When's the big rally at Parliament Hill?
catchmerevisited
wrote on 9/3/04 1:13 PM:
some Principles are worth fighting for....and Dying for.
Our 'Democracies' have been violated and turned into Hypocrisies, and their
existences shall BE eradicated, the Liars shall be purged.
Democracy shall be restored, and Liberty FREED from Her Chains, Her Torch
will light with fire anew and her Crown shall be accessible to ALL who wish
to visit it.
"At what price,....Freedom?"
Answer: "Give me Liberty....or Give Me DEATH!"
the Stalinists shall be removed and our Sufferance shall be....NO MORE!
notritenoteri
enough for smokes for the month? Your part of the problem you know.
"Tylêr__Ðû®denø3." <tylëÔ__durde@.=x¶³GÓÐŒþòíÌØÇøÖ.ogr> wrote in message
news:8cSZc.306469$gE.19107@pd7tw3no...
notritenoteri
ignore your assinine bleatings except to poke fun at you.
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
notritenoteri
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
notritenoteri
notritenoteri
able to marginalize himself any arbitrary point. In fact he embodies the
infinite series of marginalization. How does it go? " for any arbitrary
epsilon there is no delta that.... ?
"David Deilley" <david_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:5eed1cbb.04090...@posting.google.com...
notritenoteri
feeling" I believe is the saying. How's the civil disobedience going? spit
on a sidewalk lately or stopped in a NO STOPPING zone maybe. Heavy stuff. I
know maybe you've gone into some space labeled "no idiots"
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
message news:I_0_c.84592$A8.53461@edtnps89...
notritenoteri
this drug lord paranoia and pay-off stuff you keep talking about, where is
this happening La-LA land? What are you smoking sweepings off the street of
dedmonton or some special glue in the library where your using the
equipment? Maybe your sniffing the air outlet on the PC your using and its
got solvents in it?
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
message news:FN1_c.84762$A8.15985@edtnps89...
notritenoteri
hygeine again?
"Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:oJWZc.295328$M95.191024@pd7tw1no...
Hartmann Schaffer
> ...
> just bear in mind that Lady Liberty demands the blood sacrifice.
all this lady needs is a spine. you seem to mistake the ravings of a
madman to further his dubious cause as a cry for freedom. in your
followup you seem to buy the current line that consumerism is freedom.
neither of those impressions is correct
> ...
> Question: Can there be Liberty without the blood sacrifice?
i would say yes, though on occasion it might be unavoidable: in most
situations you can maintain your freedom by not giving in to pressures
to conform, but when somebody tries to bully or coerce you into doing or
thinking what you don't want to, you might have to take a stand, and on
occasion this might lead to bloodshed. it would be up to youre values
where to draw the line, but that is also part of your freedom
hs
Heidi Graw
>"notritenoteri" <colda...@hades.com> wrote in message
news:R35_c.2910$H23....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> Fish do the honorable thing!
Ah yes....the bigger fish eats the smaller fish until there is only one big
fish left in the pond. He eventually dies of starvation.
>seppeku for you!
In 220 BC when the ancient Celts were losing their battle with the Greeks,
the Celtic warrior would kill his wife and children, then himself rather
than allow being taken a slave. Not *all* resorted to this tactic. Some
ran away and others were taken as slaves. However, the main rallying cry
was: "Rather be dead than a slave." Interestingly enough, several hundred
years later, the Celts happily went about collecting slaves to feed the
Roman Empire.
In any case, this is the price of Freedom. Lady Liberty demands this blood
sacrifice:
http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis/HST210/Oct21/Ludovisi%20Gaul%20Suicide
.jpg
Heidi
Heidi Graw
> some Principles are worth fighting for....and Dying for.
> Our 'Democracies' have been violated and turned into Hypocrisies, and
their
> existences shall BE eradicated, the Liars shall be purged.
> Democracy shall be restored, and Liberty FREED from Her Chains, Her Torch
> will light with fire anew and her Crown shall be accessible to ALL who
wish
> to visit it.
> "At what price,....Freedom?"
> Answer: "Give me Liberty....or Give Me DEATH!"
>
> the Stalinists shall be removed and our Sufferance shall be....NO MORE!
Lady Liberty
Standing on the island in the bay,
Her torch light beckons the way,
Freedom reigns upon this land,
Bend your back and lend a hand.
Merchants, tradesmen, farmers all,
Dreamt a dream and watched it fall.
Weighted by duty, bound by obligation,
Conscipted to the army to defend the nation.
Lady Liberty standing bold,
Lured her soldiers to defend her gold.
Streams of milk, and rivers of honey,
Translate into corporate money.
Masses flock to buildings fair,
Old king died, but meet his heir.
Gone the crown upon his head,
Suit and tie he wears 'til dead.
Lady Liberty bought and sold,
Market risk by fate foretold.
Master, slaveman, freeman, too,
Priced for trade and bondage true.
Raise the flag and sing the anthem,
Tomorrow lay a white chysthanth'um,
In memory of heros true and bold,
Or so, by men, the story is told.
---Heidi Graw---
Feb. 01, 2002
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
"Rob Lake" <rak...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ps1k7F...@uni-berlin.de...
According to George Bush, Terrorists are those who use intimidation to
attack the freedom and Liberty we hold dear. So that would certainly include
government that infringe our fundamental rights, steal our property by force
and coercion, and destroy children and families.
Any Moronic socilaists, who promote bigoted and sexist laws, based on
political correct B.S. are the real terrorist
Any Government that abuses children and fathers should be shot for their
terrorism.
> When's the big rally at Parliament Hill?
Don't worry, Soon enough, "an eye for an eye.!!!!!"
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
> I wonder do the get a deal on their lithium seeing as they may buy it in
> bulk?
You should know, it's your kind of medication, and are you not the same
person who said "the most people who have the most guns, make all the
rules". So why would anyone obey any laws when you can simple arm
yourselves.
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
>
> >"catchmerevisited" <catchmerev...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:BD5DFED6.E92D%catchmerev...@yahoo.ca...
> (snip)
>
> > > Question: Can there be Liberty without the blood sacrifice?
> > >
> > > Heidi
>
> > catchmerevisited wrote:
> > when our Liberties are being stripped of us, who will NOT take up the
call
> > to resurrect Democracy?
>
> Oh lucky me....I get a choice of tyrants to elect. And for this I'm
> supposed lay down my life and the lives of my sons. Millions of men died
so
> I could watch a range of television channels and pick and choose the
> newspapers I may want to read. An outrageous number of uncounted and
unnamed
> civilians died so I could shop at the mall to buy French perfume. More
> recently, tens of thousands of people are being slaughtered so I can drive
> my car.
>
> When I look at all the stuff I have and all the freedoms I'm supposed to
> enjoy, I cannot forget the carnage it took so I could at the flick of a
> switch possess that light.
That's not Lady Liberty's fault, that is totally the fault of those who
oppose her values, seek her life, and force us to pay a duty for our
inherent rights and freedom. The greater the price they are forced to pay,
the greater the security our freedom will be in the longrun.
You're right about "democracy" being a load of rubbish, though. Few people
understand that the foundation of democracy is self-determination, not
merely marking a ballot to choose from a slate of idiots, theives and
tyrannts.
> Yes, for the sake of Freedom, *billions* have died over the course of
> history. And every day, more and more are led to the slaughter to appease
> the Lady Liberty. And I'm supposed to rejoice at this bloodshed. <sigh>
No, you are supposed to rejoice at the liberty, and honour those that
protected it with their lives and blood.
> Heidi
>
>
>
>
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
Right on Brother!!!!!!!!
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
and he'll swear it was red, (Commie Bastered) only because his government
terrorist gods of his said so....
"Hartmann Schaffer" <h...@hartmann.schaffernet> wrote in message
news:lq5_c.2917$H23....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
Heidi Graw
>"Karl Pollak" <gu...@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:4138e566...@news.pacificcoast.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>> "Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >Question: Can there be Liberty without the blood sacrifice?
>Karl wrote:
> No, there cannot. Therefore I demand that you present yourself forthwith
> so that I can sacrifice your blood in order so that I may be free.
I'm thinking Lady Liberty is Stromboli, the coachman, from the story
Pinocchio. The circus barker represents those leaders of nations, and the
masses are the asses. Liberty my arse! She's one big fat lie that everyone
is all too willing to sacrifice themselves for.
Oh well...
Heidi
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> had
> writtennews:I_0_c.84592$A8.53461@edtnps89:
>
> > "David Deilley" <david_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> > news:5eed1cbb.04090...@posting.google.com...
> >> wrote
> >> >
> > believe in, at any cost. "Even if it means bloodshed".
> >
> >
> your own world of conspiracies. Perhaps the "Alluminatus Trilogy" by
> Robert Shea & Robert Anton Wilson, would be a better read for you,
> then being on the computer.
You're the one who believes in irrational conspiracies; after all Barney,
you stated that you believe the RCMP passport scandal was an invention of
the media.
>
> It was at one time required reading for paranoids.
Never heard of it, but not surprised you have, given it was required reading
for you at the institute of socialist anal dwelling butt monkeys.
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> had
> >> david_...@yahoo.ca (David Deilley) had
> >> writtennews:5eed1cbb.04090...@posting.google.com:
> >>
> >> > Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote
> >> >>
> >>
> > not going to stop the truth about your kind of people.
>
> meet,struggles with the day to day events and try their best to keep
> their familys happy and then runs across people like you who says
> they are not good enough.
Your the only one saying that.... Just because you believe in thief and
corruption in the Government.
I'm sure your tax dollars are being stolen wisely, for the sake of your
police state mentality.
Your people say only they know whats right
> and whats wrong and only they know the real truth.
Keep on wearing your rose colored glasses Barney as your too blind to see
the truth, I'm sure you believe that criminals in Government is A-OK with
your political correct stupidity.
Your people want
> to rule the world because they think their ideas are better. WELL
> STICK IT!
Where up your ass, as it might happen with your political correct view when
your same government tears your family apart with your kind of socialist
stupidity, and I'm sure you will Be A-OK with that seeing your children
taken from you, or locked out of your house while your children are crying
seeing you taken away by the police. .
We, the ICC, no longer recognize the government of Canada terrorism
>
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
> franky or would you prefer frankfurter cause your such a weenie? Anyways
> this drug lord paranoia and pay-off stuff you keep talking about, where
is
> this happening La-LA land?
I post the Video's and the URL and still, you socialist can't see the truth,
"no wonder Canada is in deep trouble."
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
> x-no-archive: yes> Why would they protest against the Canadian government on Parliament Hill
> if they do not "recognize" the Canadian government?
>
> It would be somewhat insane to protest against somethign that you say no
> longer exists. Of course on the other hand, nobody said that the poster
is
> sane, either ...
Promoting real democracy is insane, Karl? Didn't you advocate for BC
separation, only a few days ago?
Should protesters be jailed for terrorism, Karl? Is that what a "sane"
Canada looks like to you?
You smoking methamphetamine with the Liberals or something?
Don't make us send the sheriffs over to drag your ass away.
catchmerevisited
colda...@hades.com wrote on 9/3/04 2:22 PM:
> weren't you fish last week? it sure smells like it or is it just bad pesonal
> hygeine again?
it would appear that Heidi is threatening the men who'd cast their irons
off, with the threat of bloodshed....?
catchmerevisited
wrote on 9/3/04 3:00 PM:
interesting premise, but somewhat flawed;
Liberty by definition,
would demand not the bounds of conscription
such legislature should be outlawed
The poem you wrote
has a very clear note
but on this i disagree
your definition of Liberty
(ahh heck, its been far too long, and i cannot endure this attempt at
singsong; out of practice i surely am and as a poet, a disgusting sham)
catchmerevisited
gu...@nospam.org wrote on 9/3/04 3:16 PM:
> x-no-archive: yes
> catchmerevisited <catchmerev...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>> some Principles are worth fighting for....and Dying for.
>
> Absolutely. Go ahead and die.
> BTW, what are your principles worth to you when you are dead?
>
> What influence do you continue to exercise to make conditions better for
> yourself and your family, never mind for humanity as a whole, when you are
> dead?
>
> No matter what you believe you are fighting for, there are no atheists in
> the foxholes.
>
>> "At what price,....Freedom?"
>> Answer: "Give me Liberty....or Give Me DEATH!"
>>
>> the Stalinists shall be removed and our Sufferance shall be....NO MORE!
>
> I'm glad you have brought the Stalinists into the highly rational and
> intellectual discussion. For the most part, the Stalinist solution was to
> give anyone who asked for it, the death he so demnanded. You see, any
> halfwitted goof knew for a fact that there was not going to be any freedom
> under the Stalinist regime. So any cries of "Give me freedom or give me
> death" were pretty much an act of "suicide by police".
>
> Despite the millins of victims of the Stalinist regime, I can't see how the
> death of any single one of them had advanced the cause of freedom. On te
> contrary, it only served to drive home the point that freedom is not on the
> menu.
>
> If you try to mouth off to a Despot "Give me freedom or give me death" it
> is more likely than not he will gladly oblige with the latter. Therefore,
> it is my considerd opinion that such a cry is strictly a hypocritical
> propaganda by somebody who not only is laready free but also knows damned
> well that his sorry demagogue ass is pretty safe when he says it.
>
there may well come a day when to that theory comes the test
and my darkest fears become manifest
(damn you heidi, my rhyming will not desist
despite my deepest urge to resist)
Heidi Graw
>"catchmerevisited" <catchmerev...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:BD5E280A.EA62%catchmerev...@yahoo.ca...
> some Principles are worth fighting for....and Dying for.
Like what? What is worth dying for? You tell me.
> Our 'Democracies' have been violated and turned into Hypocrisies,
Democracy has always been hypocritical. Ancient Greece, touted as the
birthplace of Democracy, relied heavily on slave labour. The Roman
Republic, another democracy, also relied on slavery. Same with the
Confederate States of America. And even if we look at that Freeman, we can
see the bondage....he's tied to oaths, bound by duty and chained to
obligations. The Freeman has responsibilities. There is no such thing as
Freedom. And yet, we continue to sacrifice human beings to honour, protect
and preserve Lady Liberty. Can there be any greater nonsense and bigger lie
told to humanity?
> Answer: "Give me Liberty....or Give Me DEATH!"
O.k....I'll concede: There is Liberty in Death...especially for those who
are of Atheist leanings....upon death, no coddling by Jesus, no punishment
by Satan. No obligations and responsibilities of any kind....total and
utter freedom...an atheist DEATH! ;-)
Heidi
catchmerevisited
wrote on 9/3/04 4:15 PM:
i'm sure you've got Liberty mixed up with that other statue....Stalin.
Heidi Graw
>"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
(snip)
>>Heidi wrote:
> > Yes, for the sake of Freedom, *billions* have died over the course of
> > history. And every day, more and more are led to the slaughter to
appease
> > the Lady Liberty. And I'm supposed to rejoice at this bloodshed.
<sigh>
>Frank wrote:
> No, you are supposed to rejoice at the liberty, and honour those that
> protected it with their lives and blood.
You'll not find me demanding the death of someone so I can be free. And how
can I honour someone who does it voluntarily even though *I* didn't ask for
it? Yes, those who demand the sacrifice may rejoice if their conscience
doesn't bother them. With each death, there's a debt. The more who died
for freedom the bigger the debt becomes. There is nothing liberating about
incuring debts.
Heidi
catchmerevisited
gu...@nospam.org wrote on 9/3/04 3:16 PM:
> x-no-archive: yes
> "Rob Lake" <rak...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When's the big rally at Parliament Hill?
>
> Why would they protest against the Canadian government on Parliament Hill
> if they do not "recognize" the Canadian government?
>
> It would be somewhat insane to protest against somethign that you say no
> longer exists. Of course on the other hand, nobody said that the poster is
> sane, either ...
of course, we could march right INTO Parliament, and formally declare the
Government there invalid, and forcibly depose those imposters occupying
Parliament....
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
>
> BTW, what are your principles worth to you when you are dead?
>
> What influence do you continue to exercise to make conditions better for
> yourself and your family, never mind for humanity as a whole, when you are
> dead?
>
> No matter what you believe you are fighting for, there are no atheists in
> the foxholes.
Well i'm glad to see you and the Liberals won't in any way be opposing our
elected sheriffs, because it would be stupid for you and your government
toadies to die for principles that are out to lunch in the first place.
That's encouraging.
> >"At what price,....Freedom?"
> >Answer: "Give me Liberty....or Give Me DEATH!"
> >
> >the Stalinists shall be removed and our Sufferance shall be....NO MORE!
> I'm glad you have brought the Stalinists into the highly rational and
> intellectual discussion.
Heroes of yours, are they?
> For the most part, the Stalinist solution was to
> give anyone who asked for it, the death he so demnanded.
They had it coming eh?
>You see, any
> halfwitted goof knew for a fact that there was not going to be any freedom
> under the Stalinist regime.
Not so, Karl. You could have all the freedom you wanted, provided you did
everything the government said. Isn't that what you socialist wankers always
say to those that try to defend freedom in Canaduh?
>So any cries of "Give me freedom or give me
> death" were pretty much an act of "suicide by police".
I think the idea is to fight back, not merely bend over. But stick with what
you and your monkey fart freinds are good at, Karl. Our sheriffs will
accommodate you either way, if you ask.
> Despite the millins of victims of the Stalinist regime, I can't see how
the
> death of any single one of them had advanced the cause of freedom.
Probably right. It would have been better to kill those who supported
Stalinism. Whanna be a sheriff, Karl?
>On te
> contrary, it only served to drive home the point that freedom is not on
the
> menu.
and the importance of an armed populous to oppose tyranny. Well said, Karl.
> If you try to mouth off to a Despot "Give me freedom or give me death" it
> is more likely than not he will gladly oblige with the latter.
Good point. So it would be much better to "give them death" is what you're
saying. I think youre on the right track.
> Therefore,
> it is my considerd opinion that such a cry is strictly a hypocritical
> propaganda by somebody who not only is laready free but also knows damned
> well that his sorry demagogue ass is pretty safe when he says it.
Oh, what a shame. And you were doing so well up to this point, too. Still
have your head firmly planted up you butthole.
Try dabbing a bit of lube behind your ears next time, before you spout off a
bunch of socialist crap.
Heidi Graw
(snip)
> interesting premise, but somewhat flawed;
> Liberty by definition,
> would demand not the bounds of conscription
> such legislature should be outlawed
Even if conscription were outlawed, there's peer pressure which would take
over instead.
>
> The poem you wrote
> has a very clear note
>
> but on this i disagree
> your definition of Liberty
True Liberty is something that the masses would never allow. And, as such,
liberty is an unattainable goal. It never existed in the past, it doesn't
exist in the present and will not exist in the future. Yes, she exists as
an *idea*, but unachievable. And this is why I see no sense in sacrificing
human souls to honour her.
Heidi
Heidi Graw
(snip)
>
> of course, we could march right INTO Parliament, and formally declare the
> Government there invalid, and forcibly depose those imposters occupying
> Parliament....
Yes, so the oppressed become the oppressors. Happens all the time.
Heidi
Heidi Graw
> it would appear that Heidi is threatening the men who'd cast their irons
> off, with the threat of bloodshed....?
Nope...all I'm saying is that Liberty demands the blood sacrifice. Surely
we've got enough documentation to prove it, don't we? Just read history.
There are well documented accounts of what it takes to be free. And
whenever these revolutions, or liberation movements, occurred the masses
have basically just replaced one tyrant for another. Freedom remains caged.
The battles deal more or less with regards to the size of the cage. Some
tyrants allow for bigger cages than others.
Take the most recent example in Iraq. A *few* disgruntled people within
Iraq complained and demanded *freedom.* They believed the yoke under Saddam
Hussein was to heavy a burden to carry. So, Bush went in, blew up a bunch
of people and forthwith yoked the liberated Iraquis to the oil-pipe lines to
labour under far more dangerous conditions than what that kind of slavery
had been like under Saddam's tyranny. One tyrant for another. Nothing new,
but tens of thousands had been sacrificed to Lady Liberty.
Heidi
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
>
> >"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
> message news:2L6_c.65866$S55.63909@clgrps12...
> (snip)
>
> >>Heidi wrote:
> > > Yes, for the sake of Freedom, *billions* have died over the course of
> > > history. And every day, more and more are led to the slaughter to
> appease
> > > the Lady Liberty. And I'm supposed to rejoice at this bloodshed.
> <sigh>
>
> >Frank wrote:
> > No, you are supposed to rejoice at the liberty, and honour those that
> > protected it with their lives and blood.
>
> You'll not find me demanding the death of someone so I can be free.
Your choice. Then you can live as a slave and have your children removed
from you. Your name can be put on the list, in case we need some slaves for
services. Thanks for expressing your consent.
And how
> can I honour someone who does it voluntarily even though *I* didn't ask
for
> it?
By being grateful for starters, and valuing liberty, rather than spitting on
it. Your cowardice is excusable, but your indifference to the courage of
others is another thing entirely.
>Yes, those who demand the sacrifice may rejoice if their conscience
> doesn't bother them.
It isn't much of a "sacrifice" if its in response to a demand, is it?
>With each death, there's a debt. The more who died
> for freedom the bigger the debt becomes. There is nothing liberating
about
> incuring debts.
So unless Liberty is free, you would rather be a slave to any tyrant on the
block? So when your property or your children's lives are threatened, you
don't see any point to calling your local law enforcement, you just let them
take your children, have their way with them, and make off with your
property, is that it? Wouldn't want any robbers or child abusers to get hurt
for the sake of your liberty, or that of your family. Some attitude you
have.
If our new government needs any slaves, we'll give you a call.
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
>
Heidi Graw
>"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
>
(snip)
> > >Frank wrote:
> > > No, you are supposed to rejoice at the liberty, and honour those that
> > > protected it with their lives and blood.
> >Heidi wrote:
> > You'll not find me demanding the death of someone so I can be free.
> Frank wrote
> Your choice.
Yes, indeed. But look how you come across: You demand the blood sacrifice
so *you* can be free, even if it means the death of other people and you.
>Then you can live as a slave
Yes, I recognize I live in bondage. There's that social contract that a lot
of people demand I support and abide by. If I don't, I risk punishments,
fines and jail sentences. Of course, that social contract is promoted as
the "Bill of Rights and Freedoms." In truth this documents is a "Bill of
Duties and Obligations."
>and have your children removed
> from you.
The social contract obligates me to look after them, see to their safety and
well-being. I have a duty to the children I bring into this world.
>Your name can be put on the list, in case we need some slaves for
> services.
I'm already a slave.
>Thanks for expressing your consent.
One inescapable fact: as human beings we are social animals. We are bound
and bonded "naturally." I can in no manner seek "freedom" no matter how
hard I may try or how often I may attempt to break these bonds. If I
attempt to break free, others will reign me back in.
> >Heidi wrote:
> > And how
> > can I honour someone who does it voluntarily even though *I* didn't ask
>> for
> > it?
> Frank wrote:
> By being grateful for starters,
For what? There are no mechanisms in place which will allow me *freedom.*
I'm supposed to conform to mass will. The parameters have been set in
various ways. Nature limits that what she will allow me. People, whether
democratically, theologically, or through dictatorships limit that what I'm
allowed to do.
>and valuing liberty, rather than spitting on
> it.
You can't spit on something that doesn't exist...never has, never will.
>Your cowardice is excusable,
Well, I dunno...I think it takes an enormous amount of courage to recognize
the truth that Freedom does not exist and to *accept* and *resign* oneself
to such a fact.
>but your indifference to the courage of
> others is another thing entirely.
Look, Frank: Go ahead and kill yourself while trying to fight for Freedom.
I'll not stand in your way. However, don't expect me to applaud your futile
effort.
>
> So unless Liberty is free, you would rather be a slave to any tyrant on
the
> block?
Frank, the very first step I take towards expressing my Freedom, you'd be
among the first to remove it from me.
> If our new government needs any slaves, we'll give you a call.
Hypocrite! Here you are yapping about Freedom while you go looking around
for slaves for your *new* government. LOL...
Heidi
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
>
> >"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
> message news:iv8_c.65902$S55.57892@clgrps12...
> >
> (snip)
>
> > > >Frank wrote:
> > > > No, you are supposed to rejoice at the liberty, and honour those
that
> > > > protected it with their lives and blood.
>
> > >Heidi wrote:
> > > You'll not find me demanding the death of someone so I can be free.
>
> > Frank wrote
> > Your choice.
>
> Yes, indeed. But look how you come across: You demand the blood
sacrifice
> so *you* can be free, even if it means the death of other people and you.
So we can *all* be free. Even those who want to sell their liberty for a few
material comforts will be free to submit to massah, if that is what they
choose to do.
> >Then you can live as a slave
>
> Yes, I recognize I live in bondage. There's that social contract that a
lot
> of people demand I support and abide by.
If it is, as you say, a "contract" then it would be possible to decline it.
"Contracts" that are forced on people, under threat of starvation, jail, or
whatever - are not "contracts" in any understandable sense of the word. You
are a slave - period. As are we all, with the exception of our few political
masters. If you are happy with that arrangement then bully for you, but you
have no right to force it on others or support a system that does so.
> If I don't, I risk punishments,
> fines and jail sentences. Of course, that social contract is promoted as
> the "Bill of Rights and Freedoms." In truth this documents is a "Bill of
> Duties and Obligations."
I am not familiar with this contract. When/where did you sign on to it?
> >and have your children removed
> > from you.
>
> The social contract obligates me to look after them, see to their safety
and
> well-being. I have a duty to the children I bring into this world.
So.... in the absence of this "contract", you would abuse your children? Is
that really what governs your behavior, or are you simply laboring under a
delusion that was instilled in you by many years of indoctrination and
brainwashing?
> >Your name can be put on the list, in case we need some slaves for
> > services.
>
> I'm already a slave.
Indeed you are. It is good that you realize it. It is sad that you so
willingly accept it. I have heard that the femalr of most mammalian species
is more docile and easier than the male to control. Is that true of women
like you?
> >Thanks for expressing your consent.
>
> One inescapable fact: as human beings we are social animals. We are
bound
> and bonded "naturally." I can in no manner seek "freedom" no matter how
> hard I may try or how often I may attempt to break these bonds. If I
> attempt to break free, others will reign me back in.
They will first try to starve you into submission, but this is not natural
or just or moral. A meek acceptance of a system of near-universal
enslavement is an evil of monstrous proportions. It amazes me that people
like you so calmly accept the enslavement of their children, for generations
to come.
>
> > >Heidi wrote:
> > > And how
> > > can I honour someone who does it voluntarily even though *I* didn't
ask
> >> for
> > > it?
>
> > Frank wrote:
> > By being grateful for starters,
>
> For what? There are no mechanisms in place which will allow me *freedom.*
Freedom requires no "mechanism". If someone must first "allow" you to be
free before you will even consider the concept, then you are well and truly
enslaved and the chains are all in your mind - and those are the hardest to
break free of. It requires a sincere desire and some sacrifice to be free.
You either have what it takes to save your children from enslavement to the
machine, or you do not.
> I'm supposed to conform to mass will. The parameters have been set in
> various ways. Nature limits that what she will allow me. People, whether
> democratically, theologically, or through dictatorships limit that what
I'm
> allowed to do.
"Nature" has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Your enslavement is a
matter of some people forcing their will on other people. This is not
"natural", it is quite un-natural and perverse. It is evil.
> >and valuing liberty, rather than spitting on
> > it.
>
> You can't spit on something that doesn't exist...never has, never will.
Again, the chains are in yout mind. Liberty exists wherever and whenever
free men (and women) have the will and courage to take it.
> >Your cowardice is excusable,
>
> Well, I dunno...I think it takes an enormous amount of courage to
recognize
> the truth that Freedom does not exist and to *accept* and *resign* oneself
> to such a fact.
No, there is no courage required to remain a slave. There is no courage, or
honor, in blithely accepting the enslavement of your children. Resign
yourself to it if you wish, but recognize your cowardice for what it is.
> >but your indifference to the courage of
> > others is another thing entirely.
>
> Look, Frank: Go ahead and kill yourself while trying to fight for
Freedom.
> I'll not stand in your way. However, don't expect me to applaud your
futile
> effort.
I expect most slaves to obey orders, and severely punish anyone who even
tries to be free. The slave system would not be possible without such
obedience by you and the other slaves. Maybe you could find it in your heart
to covertly resist? Perhaps help the underground railway in some low-risk
manner?
> > So unless Liberty is free, you would rather be a slave to any tyrant on
> the
> > block?
>
> Frank, the very first step I take towards expressing my Freedom, you'd be
> among the first to remove it from me.
Not me. Some other slave, perhaps.
> > If our new government needs any slaves, we'll give you a call.
>
> Hypocrite! Here you are yapping about Freedom while you go looking around
> for slaves for your *new* government. LOL...
A government that governs with the consent of each person governed, has no
slaves. It is a testament to the effectiveness if Canadian mass-brainwashing
techniques that you can not even understand the concept of freedom.
Lift that bail, tote that barge.... pay your taxes, slave.
catchmerevisited
wrote on 9/3/04 5:45 PM:
make no mistake, that Bush is about as Democratic as a Satanist in Church.
it's liars such as ol' Bush that puts a taste of poison upon anyone who
actually believes that they live in a True Democracy, what with the chains
we bear with the Patriot Act et al.
This taint stains not only Americans, but all Nations which proclaim
themselves to be a Democracy.
catchmerevisited
wrote on 9/3/04 7:53 PM:
>
>> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
> message news:iv8_c.65902$S55.57892@clgrps12...
>>
> (snip)
>
>>>> Frank wrote:
>>>> No, you are supposed to rejoice at the liberty, and honour those that
>>>> protected it with their lives and blood.
>
>>> Heidi wrote:
>>> You'll not find me demanding the death of someone so I can be free.
>
>> Frank wrote
>> Your choice.
>
> Yes, indeed. But look how you come across: You demand the blood sacrifice
> so *you* can be free, even if it means the death of other people and you.
>
say 'blood sacrifice' often enough, and i'd have to assume your'e either
1) a Satanist
2) a Goth
3) a Vampire
or, considering that they don't necesarily preclude each other,....all of
the above?
catchmerevisited
wrote on 9/3/04 5:34 PM:
well in this at least, i wasn't serious.
perhaps i took the 'blood' lines too far.
I certainly wouldn't partake in a coup- unless we DID become entirely
Stalinist.
i think what is actually being proposed by at least three provinces, is not
unusual considering that this was proposed by one particular province since
it signed into the confederation.
Ab. and BC separatist movemnets are more Centrist/Libertarians than the
Leftist BQ....
Heidi Graw
>"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
(snip)
>>Heidi wrote:
> > Yes, indeed. But look how you come across: You demand the blood
>> sacrifice so *you* can be free, even if it means the death of other
people and you.
> Frank wrote:
> So we can *all* be free. Even those who want to sell their liberty for a
few
> material comforts will be free to submit to massah, if that is what they
> choose to do.
Yet, by allowing one to sell themselves into slavery, you're negating the
very concept of the universality of freedom and justice for *all*. You
cannot be free if you allow slavery. And by your above statement you made
it very clear you would accept slavery for others if not for yourself. Let
those who sell themselves, sell themselves. Iow, permit people to be slaves
and permit people to own slaves.
> >Heidi wrote:
> > Yes, I recognize I live in bondage. There's that social contract that a
>> lot of people demand I support and abide by.
> Frank wrote:
> If it is, as you say, a "contract" then it would be possible to decline
it.
But it's not. If I want to live among people and with people, I have to
accept that social contract. I cannot opt out. I can't even go out into
the wilderness to live freely there, 'cause the wilderness is owned by the
Crown!
> "Contracts" that are forced on people, under threat of starvation, jail,
or
> whatever -
Contracts are also forced on people while removing "choice." I have no
choice in the matter.
>are not "contracts" in any understandable sense of the word. You
> are a slave - period.
Yes, and so are you. ;-)
>>Heidi wrote:
> > If I don't, I risk punishments,
> > fines and jail sentences. Of course, that social contract is promoted
as
> > the "Bill of Rights and Freedoms." In truth this documents is a "Bill
of
> > Duties and Obligations."
>Frank wrote:
> I am not familiar with this contract. When/where did you sign on to it?
Most people are born into the social contract. Immigrants adopt it when
they make their citizen pledge to uphold the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Landed immigrants aren't held to the pledge, but risk being shipped out if
they don't abide by the contract.
So, while the Canadian Charter gives us a list of Rights and Freedoms, it is
implicit we defend these through the blood sacrifice if and when the
"powers" we elect to represent us demand it. In this manner, the Charter
becomes a list of duties, obligations and responsibilities. You will also
note the Charter *limits* our Rights and Freedoms to favour some quasi
legalistic term called "fundamental justice"...whatever the heck that is
supposed to mean.
The point is: Freedom is *limited.* Canned freedom, caged freedom, but
*not* Freedom!
>>Heidi wrote:
> > The social contract obligates me to look after them [my children], see
to their safety
> >and
> > well-being. I have a duty to the children I bring into this world.
> Frank wrote:
> So.... in the absence of this "contract", you would abuse your children?
Of course not!
>Is
> that really what governs your behavior,
Here's the thing: The Canadian Charter does *not* govern *my* behavior.
>or are you simply laboring under a
> delusion that was instilled in you by many years of indoctrination and
> brainwashing?
Neither Church, nor my mother govern *my* behavior. How I relate to my
children is dictated by *Duty and Obligation*.
> >Heidi wrote:
> > I'm already a slave.
> Frank wrote:
> Indeed you are. It is good that you realize it. It is sad that you so
> willingly accept it.
My children don't demand the blood sacrifice. They prefer I remain alive so
I can continue to give them the care and attention they need and demand.
>I have heard that the femalr of most mammalian species
> is more docile and easier than the male to control. Is that true of women
> like you?
Duty and Obligation at times demand that I dismiss, ignore and disregard
"given norms." Bucking the tend takes some doing, often involving covert
activities. However, it does concern me a great deal when I see men, as
docile sheep, being led to the slaughter when the illusion of Freedom calls.
>>Heidi wrote:
>> I can in no manner seek "freedom" no matter how
> > hard I may try or how often I may attempt to break these bonds. If I
> > attempt to break free, others will reign me back in.
> Frank wrote:
> They will first try to starve you into submission, but this is not natural
> or just or moral. A meek acceptance of a system of near-universal
> enslavement is an evil of monstrous proportions.
Yet, enslavement is the natural and prefered state of human beings.
> Again, the chains are in yout mind. Liberty exists wherever and whenever
> free men (and women) have the will and courage to take it.
Few will break the bonds tying them together. There are the bonds of hearts
and minds...the threads of life which ties us up. There is that
interconnectedness and the interdependencies which make it absolutely
impossible for individuals to be *free.*
You claim you are a lawyer. You depend on a steady supply of injustices to
keep you in business. You'd be out of a job if these injustices did not
exist. You may want to question to what extent you, by virtue of your
profession, *encourage* injustices without consciously and even deliberate
attempting to do so.
> I expect most slaves to obey orders, and severely punish anyone who even
> tries to be free. The slave system would not be possible without such
> obedience by you and the other slaves. Maybe you could find it in your
heart
> to covertly resist? Perhaps help the underground railway in some low-risk
> manner?
LOL....I am a Free Radical at heart. ;-) Yet, I'm all too aware of the
futility of breaking away. If you read anything about physics, you'll
realize even a free radical wants to be bound and belong somewhere along the
social spectrum. And contairy to popular belief Free Radicals are not the
disease bearers, but Enzymes *are.* ;-)
And so it is with Libertarians and other social "freedom" fighters....they
go out to upset the apple cart, only to join the rest of the apples, but
push out some others which they don't happen to like. These ones then move
on to other apple carts, toss out the rotten ones, join the existing ones,
and on and on it goes.
Understand this: Freedom does *not* exist. As an idea, sure, but never in
*reality.*
Heidi
Heidi Graw
(snip)
>catchmerevisited wrote:
> say 'blood sacrifice' often enough, and i'd have to assume your'e either
> 1) a Satanist
I don't believe in Satan. I don't recognize or acknowledge him to be an
entity worthy of my attention.
> 2) a Goth
I don't look good in black. Nor do I care much for tattoos and body
piercings. O.k...I got pierced ears, but I like colourful clothes. ;-)
> 3) a Vampire
I recoil at the sight of blood. You couldn't get me to drink fresh blood
either. Eeeeehhhhh....
> or, considering that they don't necesarily preclude each other,....all of
> the above?
But, consider what is done in the name of Freedom. You cannot honestly say
Lady Liberty does not demand the blood sacrifice.
We might want to look at the Christians and their rhetoric:
"Jesus died to set you free."
"Wash yourself in the blood of Jesus to cleanse yourself of sin."
"Eat of the body of Christ and drink of his blood."
Christians tend to tie Freedom with the Blood Sacrifice. Of particular
fascination to these Christians was the scourging and the nailing to the
cross. When I saw the huge numbers flocking to see Mel Gibson's film, I
could only think of *vultures*...carrion birds picking through the corpse in
order to take home a memento of his "sacrifice."
Heidi
>
Heidi Graw
(snip)
> make no mistake, that Bush is about as Democratic as a Satanist in Church.
> it's liars such as ol' Bush that puts a taste of poison upon anyone who
> actually believes that they live in a True Democracy, what with the chains
> we bear with the Patriot Act et al.
> This taint stains not only Americans, but all Nations which proclaim
> themselves to be a Democracy.
The trouble is: whenever laws are enacted, they are rarely if ever
*rescinded*, especially if we're talking about security measures. Just look
at how willingly people are prepared to subject themselves to bio-metric
measure, finger printing, DNA sampling and eye scans. How many people phone
those "fink" lines to report suspicious behavior? People will tolerate such
gross invasion of privacy that if you object, you're looked at with
suspicion and will risk coming under scrutiny yourself.
What I value most is privacy. Such a thing no longer exists. From birth to
death we are stamped, tagged and tracked. We are subjected to camera
scrutiny, infrared and satellite monitoring and all manner of other
indignities. And to avoid that, where can one go? I'm finding my space to
move around in is becoming smaller and smaller. Even "freedom" fighters
insist I submit to scrutiny...it's for my own good they tell me!
I've been told often enough I have to stop swimming against the tide...I'm
supposed to go with the flow...[rolling up my eyes.] Oh well, when I see a
herd heading for the cliff, I'll be on the side-lines clinging on to that
branch. There's no point in interfering with the process. Where the tide
swings...let it go.
Heidi
David Deilley
>
> of nowhere. The difference between cowardly idiots like you, and people like
> me, is I am willing to fight, for what I believe in, at any cost. "Even if
> it means bloodshed".
You're not "fighting."
What you are doing exists in a fantasyland somehere between shadow
boxing and playing with yourself.
catchmerevisited
wrote on 9/3/04 10:44 PM:
>
>> "catchmerevisited" <catchmerev...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:BD5E90AC.EC4E%catchmerev...@yahoo.ca...
> (snip)
>
>> catchmerevisited wrote:
>> say 'blood sacrifice' often enough, and i'd have to assume your'e either
>> 1) a Satanist
>
> I don't believe in Satan. I don't recognize or acknowledge him to be an
> entity worthy of my attention.
>
>> 2) a Goth
>
> I don't look good in black. Nor do I care much for tattoos and body
> piercings. O.k...I got pierced ears, but I like colourful clothes. ;-)
>
>> 3) a Vampire
>
> I recoil at the sight of blood. You couldn't get me to drink fresh blood
> either. Eeeeehhhhh....
>
>> or, considering that they don't necesarily preclude each other,....all of
>> the above?
>
> But, consider what is done in the name of Freedom. You cannot honestly say
> Lady Liberty does not demand the blood sacrifice.
>
> We might want to look at the Christians and their rhetoric:
>
> "Jesus died to set you free."
>
> "Wash yourself in the blood of Jesus to cleanse yourself of sin."
>
> "Eat of the body of Christ and drink of his blood."
i tried the 'Christian' thing for a time; it didn't work for me. THat is to
say, I found God, and the amazing thing is, He exists outside of Church
Walls.
He is not bound upon Doctrine, Symbols, and Icons. (I almost sound like
Daryl S K there....) but exists in Peoples' hearts in the best of our
ability to understand Him.
Churches, and the "Holy Bible" contain more Untruths than the Truths they
know- but then they know not the tendencies mere mortals have, to lean
towards hypocrisies (being of limited attention spans, we tend to repeat our
mistakes; how else to account for the many wars, Jihads and Crusades?)
>
> Christians tend to tie Freedom with the Blood Sacrifice. Of particular
> fascination to these Christians was the scourging and the nailing to the
> cross. When I saw the huge numbers flocking to see Mel Gibson's film, I
> could only think of *vultures*...carrion birds picking through the corpse in
> order to take home a memento of his "sacrifice."
>
> Heidi
>
>
'Christianity' and all the various Denominations therof is just another
Movement, tending towards the same hypocrisies as the rest of humanity- no
better or worse, save for this: those whose text professes to speak against
hypocrisy and preaches the bane of its existences, should NOT practice it.
catchmerevisited
wrote on 9/3/04 11:09 PM:
we....the People, cannot tolerate passively the pendulum, but resist its
swing with all the Will we can muster.
Just like any Movement, however, there will always be people with their own
ideas as to what changes must be made; as long as we work towards a common
goal, one can achieve whatever they wish.
No one as far as I know, is asking for a Formalised Alliance, but a
recognition that a move for change be made, and to point oneself in the
direction of their CHOICE.
For myself, I will join (as like the way I vote) with whomever coincides
closest with my views, and remain within as long as we work towards the same
goals- once this path forks from the one I must Choose, I linger not at the
fringe but take it with all the stride that carries me, towards my own goal.
I am an Individual, working within a group but for as short a time as it
would suit my needs.
Barney
writtennews:W%6_c.65876$S55.6211@clgrps12:
> "Barney" <sh...@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns95596ACFC7B85...@130.133.1.4...
>> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN>
>> had writtennews:I_0_c.84592$A8.53461@edtnps89:
>>
>> > "David Deilley" <david_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:5eed1cbb.04090...@posting.google.com...
>> >> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank
>> >> Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote
>> >> >
>> > I am willing to fight, for what I
>> > believe in, at any cost. "Even if it means bloodshed".
>> >
>> >
>> It's what you believe that must be scarey to yourself. You live
>> in your own world of conspiracies. Perhaps the "Alluminatus
>> Trilogy" by Robert Shea & Robert Anton Wilson, would be a better
>> read for you, then being on the computer.
>
> You're the one who believes in irrational conspiracies; after all
> Barney, you stated that you believe the RCMP passport scandal was
> an invention of the media.
>
I believe this is not your first indication of Paranoia. You now put
word in other people's mouths to justify your ranting. Still nothing
on the Port Police.
notritenoteri
just jerk off verbally?news:ZD5_c.311551$J06.77094@pd7tw2no...
>
> >"notritenoteri" <colda...@hades.com> wrote in message
> news:R35_c.2910$H23....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> > Fish do the honorable thing!
>
> Ah yes....the bigger fish eats the smaller fish until there is only one
big
> fish left in the pond. He eventually dies of starvation.
>
> >seppeku for you!
>
> In 220 BC when the ancient Celts were losing their battle with the Greeks,
> the Celtic warrior would kill his wife and children, then himself rather
> than allow being taken a slave. Not *all* resorted to this tactic. Some
> ran away and others were taken as slaves. However, the main rallying cry
> was: "Rather be dead than a slave." Interestingly enough, several
hundred
> years later, the Celts happily went about collecting slaves to feed the
> Roman Empire.
>
> In any case, this is the price of Freedom. Lady Liberty demands this
blood
> sacrifice:
>
>
http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis/HST210/Oct21/Ludovisi%20Gaul%20Suicide
> .jpg
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
notritenoteri
unintelligable. If your a lawyer you couldn't argue a parking ticket and
win.
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
message news:u17_c.65878$S55.25713@clgrps12...> news:Ae5_c.2915$H23....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> > franky or would you prefer frankfurter cause your such a weenie?
Anyways
> > this drug lord paranoia and pay-off stuff you keep talking about, where
> is
> > this happening La-LA land?
>
> I post the Video's and the URL and still, you socialist can't see the
truth,
> "no wonder Canada is in deep trouble."
>
>
>
>
>
> What are you smoking sweepings off the street of
> > dedmonton or some special glue in the library where your using the
> > equipment? Maybe your sniffing the air outlet on the PC your using and
its
> > got solvents in it?
> > "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote
> > message news:FN1_c.84762$A8.15985@edtnps89...> > > news:Xns9559685BE8E6D...@130.133.1.4...
> > > > david_...@yahoo.ca (David Deilley) had
> > > > writtennews:5eed1cbb.04090...@posting.google.com:
> > > >
> > > > > "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN>
> > > > > wrote
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > marginalize himself even further - but you manage to do so on a
> > > > > daily basis with stupid comments like this.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > He calls posters names as well. No need to say more.
> > >
> > > You can't stop what is coming Barney, as people are not putting up
with
> > this
> > > government and police terrorism and corruprtion...
> > > Besides the police are being exposed for letting in Drug lords ,and
> taking
> > > passport pay off's. Keep trying to save face, as your not going to
stop
> > the
> > > truth about your kind of people.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > --
notritenoteri
when your dead? You may be correct in the absolute. At that point nothing
and no one can do anything to you. The problem is you are totally
ineffective too unless you died of some terribly contagious disease in which
case the remaining disease pathogens may have some influence In fact though
it isn't you acting only a guest on your rotting corpse of a hostnews:Se8_c.299729$M95.136309@pd7tw1no...
notritenoteri
Unfortunately most people don't value them and in fact can't tolerate them.
They are herd animals they feel safer in the herd than out on their own and
areunable to function without a group setting. I beleive its genetic, just
like the wilderbeests. The other problem is people are so concerned about
their stuff and amassing and keeping it. No one ever thinks that they are
going to leave with even less than what they came in with. People are pretty
fucking stupid when you think about it.
"Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:f_c_c.315427$gE.216042@pd7tw3no...
notritenoteri
I may call you fwanky or would you prefer dipshit? It is just as
appropriate but one more letter to key which you are not worth.
what is a BAstered? You are probably a BASTARD by birth but certainly by
demeanor. Back to your vault privy boy, then you won't have to chose sides
to get out or in.
BTW the singular diminutive of communist should most likely be "commy",
"commie" with an added s would be the proper plural form I think i.e.
"commies". I would think a lawyer such as yourself even though probably
disbarred should have certain grounding in English lexicography.
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
> Fartman your just another socialist useful idiot, show fartman a blue sky,
> and he'll swear it was red, (Commie Bastered) only because his government
> terrorist gods of his said so....
>
>
>
> "Hartmann Schaffer" <h...@hartmann.schaffernet> wrote in message
> news:lq5_c.2917$H23....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> > Heidi Graw wrote:
> > > ...
> > > just bear in mind that Lady Liberty demands the blood sacrifice.
> >
> > all this lady needs is a spine. you seem to mistake the ravings of a
> > madman to further his dubious cause as a cry for freedom. in your
> > followup you seem to buy the current line that consumerism is freedom.
> > neither of those impressions is correct
> >
> > > ...
> > > Question: Can there be Liberty without the blood sacrifice?
> >
> > situations you can maintain your freedom by not giving in to pressures
> > to conform, but when somebody tries to bully or coerce you into doing or
> > thinking what you don't want to, you might have to take a stand, and on
> > occasion this might lead to bloodshed. it would be up to youre values
> > where to draw the line, but that is also part of your freedom
> >
> > hs
>
>
notritenoteri
you should try the reverse fwanky you head seems to be too greasy and always
slipping into your ass.
"Try dabbing a bit of lube behind your ears next time, before you spout off
a bunch of socialist crap."
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
message news:6_7_c.65889$S55.32124@clgrps12...
notritenoteri
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
>
> "Rob Lake" <rak...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2ps1k7F...@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote
in
> message
> > >
> > > "Alan Wellington Scott" <greenl...@yahoo.se> wrote in message
> > > news:2pq5eaF...@uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > > "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN>
wrote
> in
> > > message
> > > > > http://www.petitiononline.com/free9104/petition.html
> > > > >
> > > > > To: Canadian Citizens
> > > > > "Declaration of Independence"
> > > > (...)
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > The Undersigned
> > > > All 6 of them.> >
> > > Are you supporting government terrorism.....instead of the message
> >
> > "You're either with us or against us!" You don't support all of my
> causes so that
> > makes you a terrorist sympathiser in the eyes beholden to my views!
>
> According to George Bush, Terrorists are those who use intimidation to
> attack the freedom and Liberty we hold dear. So that would certainly
include
> government that infringe our fundamental rights, steal our property by
force
> and coercion, and destroy children and families.
>
> Any Moronic socilaists, who promote bigoted and sexist laws, based on
> political correct B.S. are the real terrorist
> Any Government that abuses children and fathers should be shot for their
> terrorism.
>
> > When's the big rally at Parliament Hill?
>
>
>
notritenoteri
which is doubtful your legal briefs where probably like the ones you don't
change, full of shit. The key word is "most' you want to be the kid in
Tianiman Square and make a smear and statement on the pavement you go ahead.
BTW how come you know what lithium is used for?
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
message news:gx6_c.65861$S55.60907@clgrps12...
>
> "notritenoteri" <colda...@hades.com> wrote in message
> news:Wh3_c.2896$H23....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> > I wonder do the get a deal on their lithium seeing as they may buy it in
> > bulk?
>
> You should know, it's your kind of medication, and are you not the same
> person who said "the most people who have the most guns, make all the
> rules". So why would anyone obey any laws when you can simple arm
> yourselves.
notritenoteri
little close too your daughter(s) were you? Your son(s) were complaining to
their mom about how you were always taking their temperature rectally?
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
notritenoteri
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
> Right on Brother!!!!!!!!
notritenoteri
time. Bubba will be all over you like stink on shit.
"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
>
notritenoteri
situations that he cannot control which is most that impinge upon him. I
suspect in truth he "enjoys" his fate.
"Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:PCc_c.300745$M95.40123@pd7tw1no...
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
> x-no-archive: yes
> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote:
>
> >> When's the big rally at Parliament Hill?
> >
> >Don't worry, Soon enough, "an eye for an eye.!!!!!"
>
> I wonder why none of you hysterical "bc revolution" and "fathers' rights"
> boys ever post under your real names.
Get real Karl do you think all those dads are going to take your Liberals or
NDP serious when they don't get those votes.
New political fathers rights party's are going to be cropping up and your
Liberals better hope they don't get elected, we are organized now.
What are your Liberals going to do when sheriffs departments are elected in
the communities, Herr Combat Karl
>
> Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously with your idiotic
> monickers and stupid talk of liberty and blood in the streets?
What makes you think their not Herr Combat Karl
>
> Do you give a shit about how much damage you are doing to the guys who are
> really working for fathers rights and men's equality?
F4J is about Justice, Herr Combat Karl, not your phoney governments
propaganda full of policy's like the VAW which are sexist and bigoted ..
Did you think people would just plead forever, with your corrupt government
criminals, not likey.
--
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless
minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." -Samuel Adams
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> had
> writtennews:W%6_c.65876$S55.6211@clgrps12:
>
> > "Barney" <sh...@despammed.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns95596ACFC7B85...@130.133.1.4...
> >> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN>
> >> had writtennews:I_0_c.84592$A8.53461@edtnps89:
> >>
> >> > "David Deilley" <david_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> >> > news:5eed1cbb.04090...@posting.google.com...
> >> >> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank
> >> >> Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote
> >> >> >
> >> > I am willing to fight, for what I
> >> > believe in, at any cost. "Even if it means bloodshed".
> >> >
> >> >
> >> It's what you believe that must be scarey to yourself. You live
> >> in your own world of conspiracies. Perhaps the "Alluminatus
> >> Trilogy" by Robert Shea & Robert Anton Wilson, would be a better
> >> read for you, then being on the computer.
> >
> > You're the one who believes in irrational conspiracies; after all
> > Barney, you stated that you believe the RCMP passport scandal was
> > an invention of the media.
> >
>
> I believe this is not your first indication of Paranoia.
Slap, you got found out Barney, if your going to claim section things, at
least remove your cowardly actions, and stand up to your own words, "you
stated that you believe the RCMP passport scandal was an invention of the
media."
Otherwise your another useful idiot, jack in the box socilaist, which I just
don't take serious at all.
notritenoteri
"white" fish at one time it used to be a trash fish.news:4139f83f...@news.pacificcoast.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
> "notritenoteri" <colda...@hades.com> wrote:
>
> >weren't you fish last week? it sure smells like it or is it just bad
pesonal
> >hygeine again?> You must be pretty desperate if you have to resort to such disgusting
> garbage.
>
>
> --
> Greetings from Lotusland
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
> >
> > Then David, you will be in one of those camps being made out in the
middle
> > of nowhere. The difference between cowardly idiots like you, and people
like
> > me, is I am willing to fight, for what I believe in, at any cost. "Even
if
> > it means bloodshed".
>
> You're not "fighting."
Oh and what do I do Davidism, stand around like you do, with your thumb up
your ass
crying the blues about TP and his website, that all you do.
Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers......
> I had a quick look at the sight its so fucking confused like you that its
> unintelligable. If your a lawyer you couldn't argue a parking ticket and
> win.
You socialist, brain-dead useful idiots, will except any criminal action in
government and police because it what you want.
You think it makes you feel safe....you are stupid.
Rivers..@.......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers.......
You don't understand the issue, and what is wrong with people.
All your worse then slaves. your all embarrass to see others walking around
as free people.
"Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Yfc_c.315088$gE.77950@pd7tw3no...
>
> >"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
> message news:b8b_c.85535$A8.47916@edtnps89...
> (snip)
>
> >>Heidi wrote:
> > > Yes, indeed. But look how you come across: You demand the blood
> >> sacrifice so *you* can be free, even if it means the death of other
> people and you.
>
> > Frank wrote:
> > So we can *all* be free. Even those who want to sell their liberty for a
> few
> > material comforts will be free to submit to massah, if that is what they
> > choose to do.
>
> Yet, by allowing one to sell themselves into slavery, you're negating the
> very concept of the universality of freedom and justice for *all*. You
> cannot be free if you allow slavery. And by your above statement you made
> it very clear you would accept slavery for others if not for yourself.
Let
> those who sell themselves, sell themselves. Iow, permit people to be
slaves
> and permit people to own slaves.
>
> > >Heidi wrote:
> > > Yes, I recognize I live in bondage. There's that social contract that
a
> >> lot of people demand I support and abide by.
>
> > Frank wrote:
> > If it is, as you say, a "contract" then it would be possible to decline
> it.
>
> But it's not. If I want to live among people and with people, I have to
> accept that social contract. I cannot opt out. I can't even go out into
> the wilderness to live freely there, 'cause the wilderness is owned by the
> Crown!
>
> > "Contracts" that are forced on people, under threat of starvation, jail,
> or
> > whatever -
>
> Contracts are also forced on people while removing "choice." I have no
> choice in the matter.
>
> >are not "contracts" in any understandable sense of the word. You
> > are a slave - period.
>
> Yes, and so are you. ;-)
>
> >>Heidi wrote:
> > > If I don't, I risk punishments,
> > > fines and jail sentences. Of course, that social contract is promoted
> as
> > > the "Bill of Rights and Freedoms." In truth this documents is a "Bill
> of
> > > Duties and Obligations."
>
> >Frank wrote:
> > I am not familiar with this contract. When/where did you sign on to it?
>
> Most people are born into the social contract. Immigrants adopt it when
> they make their citizen pledge to uphold the Charter of Rights and
Freedoms.
> Landed immigrants aren't held to the pledge, but risk being shipped out if
> they don't abide by the contract.
>
> So, while the Canadian Charter gives us a list of Rights and Freedoms, it
is
> implicit we defend these through the blood sacrifice if and when the
> "powers" we elect to represent us demand it. In this manner, the Charter
> becomes a list of duties, obligations and responsibilities. You will also
> note the Charter *limits* our Rights and Freedoms to favour some quasi
> legalistic term called "fundamental justice"...whatever the heck that is
> supposed to mean.
>
> The point is: Freedom is *limited.* Canned freedom, caged freedom, but
> *not* Freedom!
>
> >>Heidi wrote:
> > > The social contract obligates me to look after them [my children], see
> to their safety
> > >and
> > > well-being. I have a duty to the children I bring into this world.
>
> > Frank wrote:
> > So.... in the absence of this "contract", you would abuse your children?
>
> Of course not!
>
> >Is
> > that really what governs your behavior,
>
> Here's the thing: The Canadian Charter does *not* govern *my* behavior.
>
> >or are you simply laboring under a
> > delusion that was instilled in you by many years of indoctrination and
> > brainwashing?
>
> Neither Church, nor my mother govern *my* behavior. How I relate to my
> children is dictated by *Duty and Obligation*.
>
> > >Heidi wrote:
> > > I'm already a slave.
>
> > Frank wrote:
> > Indeed you are. It is good that you realize it. It is sad that you so
> > willingly accept it.
>
> My children don't demand the blood sacrifice. They prefer I remain alive
so
> I can continue to give them the care and attention they need and demand.
>
> >I have heard that the femalr of most mammalian species
> > is more docile and easier than the male to control. Is that true of
women
> > like you?
>
> Duty and Obligation at times demand that I dismiss, ignore and disregard
> "given norms." Bucking the tend takes some doing, often involving covert
> activities. However, it does concern me a great deal when I see men, as
> docile sheep, being led to the slaughter when the illusion of Freedom
calls.
>
> >>Heidi wrote:
> >> I can in no manner seek "freedom" no matter how
> > > hard I may try or how often I may attempt to break these bonds. If I
> > > attempt to break free, others will reign me back in.
>
> > Frank wrote:
> > They will first try to starve you into submission, but this is not
natural
> > or just or moral. A meek acceptance of a system of near-universal
> > enslavement is an evil of monstrous proportions.
>
> Yet, enslavement is the natural and prefered state of human beings.
>
>
> > Again, the chains are in yout mind. Liberty exists wherever and whenever
> > free men (and women) have the will and courage to take it.
>
> Few will break the bonds tying them together. There are the bonds of
hearts
> and minds...the threads of life which ties us up. There is that
> interconnectedness and the interdependencies which make it absolutely
> impossible for individuals to be *free.*
>
> You claim you are a lawyer. You depend on a steady supply of injustices
to
> keep you in business. You'd be out of a job if these injustices did not
> exist. You may want to question to what extent you, by virtue of your
> profession, *encourage* injustices without consciously and even deliberate
> attempting to do so.
>
>
> > I expect most slaves to obey orders, and severely punish anyone who even
> > tries to be free. The slave system would not be possible without such
> > obedience by you and the other slaves. Maybe you could find it in your
> heart
> > to covertly resist? Perhaps help the underground railway in some
low-risk
> > manner?
>
> LOL....I am a Free Radical at heart. ;-) Yet, I'm all too aware of the
> futility of breaking away. If you read anything about physics, you'll
> realize even a free radical wants to be bound and belong somewhere along
the
> social spectrum. And contairy to popular belief Free Radicals are not the
> disease bearers, but Enzymes *are.* ;-)
>
> And so it is with Libertarians and other social "freedom" fighters....they
> go out to upset the apple cart, only to join the rest of the apples, but
> push out some others which they don't happen to like. These ones then
move
> on to other apple carts, toss out the rotten ones, join the existing ones,
> and on and on it goes.
>
> Understand this: Freedom does *not* exist. As an idea, sure, but never
in
> *reality.*
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
Heidi Graw
>"Frank Rivers......." <Frank Rivers..@.......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
message news:18p_c.106382$X12.99851@edtnps84...
>Frank wrote:
> Heidi you been brainwashed.
No, Frank, I'm very much aware of the *reality* of the situation. It's you
who has been brainwashed into believing you can be "free."
>You can't force a contract on anyone.
Sure you can. It's done every day. "Sign this. You have no choice...not
if you want to be a member of this society."
> You don't understand the issue, and what is wrong with people.
For most it's a case of "Do or die." That's not much of a choice, is it?
>
> All your worse then slaves. your all embarrass to see others walking
around
> as free people.
Show me a free person and I'll shut up.
Heidi
Rivers..@.......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers.......
>
> >"Frank Rivers......." <Frank Rivers..@.......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote
in
> message news:18p_c.106382$X12.99851@edtnps84...
>
> >Frank wrote:
> > Heidi you been brainwashed.
>
> No, Frank, I'm very much aware of the *reality* of the situation. It's
you
> who has been brainwashed into believing you can be "free."
nope, sorry woman, I am a free man, and will fight for my Liberty and
freedom where as you cave in and bend to what the powers to be tell you what
to do.
>
> >You can't force a contract on anyone.
>
> Sure you can. It's done every day. "Sign this. You have no choice...not
> if you want to be a member of this society."
Sorry Heidi, I don't sign anything, "that forced on myself." Many have
tried, and failed..
>
> > You don't understand the issue, and what is wrong with people.
>
> For most it's a case of "Do or die." That's not much of a choice, is it?
It's better then what your offing your son's right now, for the sake of
political correct slavery, where they will not be allowed to even be
"fathers to their own children', based on this radical feminist
propaganda,.and lies.
>
> >
> > All your worse then slaves. your all embarrass to see others walking
> around
> > as free people.
>
> Show me a free person and I'll shut up.
I am one. I do as I please and go about my business, until someone tries to
infringe on my Freedom and Liberty's..
Be it government or police... then they got trouble as I have no problem
getting in their faces, as I do not fear death or those, who can think they
can force me to do anything I disagree with...that would violate my morals
or values.."I hold dear..'
>
> Heidi
Top Poster
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
Just like you enjoy scribbling on the walls of your cell with your own
shit, hey not-too-bright?
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
"notritenoteri" <colda...@hades.com> wrote in message
news:V5l_c.3020$H23....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
Top Poster
"notritenoteri" <colda...@hades.com> wrote in message
news:khj_c.2996$H23....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
>I had a quick look at the sight its so fucking confused like you that its
> unintelligable. If your a lawyer you couldn't argue a parking ticket and
> win.
Not-too-bright is jealous. All he did with his life was booze it up. Now
he's almost at the end of his rope and he's desperate for attention.
His head operation didn't take, and the neighbourhood kids are scared of
him.
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
> "Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
catchmerevisited
wrote on 9/4/04 1:41 PM:
>
>> "Frank Rivers......." <Frank Rivers..@.......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
> message news:18p_c.106382$X12.99851@edtnps84...
>
>> Frank wrote:
>> Heidi you been brainwashed.
>
> No, Frank, I'm very much aware of the *reality* of the situation. It's you
> who has been brainwashed into believing you can be "free."
>
>> You can't force a contract on anyone.
>
> Sure you can. It's done every day. "Sign this. You have no choice...not
> if you want to be a member of this society."
>
yes, Betty Krawczyck made that too clear with the example made of her;
frankly i was appalled.
Contempt of court, the Judge said. the ones in contempt, was the Judge and
Crown Attorney that day.
For those that don't know (first off, background history)
1) an incident involving the Chancellor of Austria ocurred where Hitler
invited him into Germany for a 'friendly discussion', only to kidnap him
upon his arrival and force his signature to grant authority ot that of
Hitler himself (Hitler wanted to avoid an invasion upon 'friendly'
territory)
2) since that day, from the 'FreeMan' right up to the White House, certain
legislature exists to prevent the validity of forced signatures (ie
signatures conditional to 'Freedom')
Now, on to present day:
Betty Krawczyck, a 68 year old grandmother at the time, was arrested for
invoking her Legal Right to protest on Crown Lands (Crown Lands, being owned
by the People ceded to the Government of Canada's Authority by Commission of
Her Majesty, Queen Victoria) whch were leased by a logging company at that
time.
She was told that they would let her go ON THAT DAY, if she sign a release
stating that she would not participate in any further logging disputes.
being mindful
1) this is supposed to be a Democracy, and
2) a Democracy makes no such conditions to force a signature
3) in any case, she KNEW she'd protest again, as granted by the Charter as a
Right, she declined her signature.
Consequently, she was found in contempt of Court and given a jail sentence
of a number of years.
This is an illustration of all that is wrong with our Justice System,
allowing in practice a move which Hitler himself would have thought
admirable.
catchmerevisited
Rivers..@.......Seascapetowers..GCAN wrote on 9/4/04 2:32 PM:
Betty Krawczck (sp) was made a victim of Justice, but by her example, she
has woken myself and perhaps others to the Discreprencies of 'Justice' and
perhaps motivates more than myself to take action.
Of course, there exists other motives equally compelling for which groups
such as F4J have formed.
Rivers..@.......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers.......
See Betty Crockshit's http://www.fathers.ca/betty_krawczyk.htm news piece
called
"Planet is at mercy of violent male vision".
Oh see a "nice photo of her'
Just what socialism rantings and foaming at the mouth is about hate only and
another reason
to correct the problems of radical feminiazis, let loose on society...The
NDP bigots and sexist creeps would love her....
>
Tyl�r__��den.�
>
> >"Frank Rivers......" <Frank Rivers..@......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote in
> (snip)
>
> >>Heidi wrote:
> > > Yes, indeed. But look how you come across: You demand the blood
> >> sacrifice so *you* can be free, even if it means the death of other
> people and you.
>
> > Frank wrote:
> > So we can *all* be free. Even those who want to sell their liberty for a
> few
> > material comforts will be free to submit to massah, if that is what they
> > choose to do.
>
> Yet, by allowing one to sell themselves into slavery, you're negating the
> very concept of the universality of freedom and justice for *all*.
Yet by "allowing one"...<<<< NOTE NOTE NOTE..... So what is the option then?
NOT allowing them?
Don't you see any difference between forcing someone to be a slave, and
letting them be one voluntarily? Notwithstanding the difficulty of calling
the latter a true slave, i think you miss the concept of freedom [of choice]
and self-determination by miles and fenceposts. And to think i once thought
you were one of the more enlightened posters.
>You
> cannot be free if you allow slavery.
If they *want* to work for a master for their food and clothing, what is
that to you? Isn't individual 'persuit of happiness' the foundation of free
and civilized societies, and a principle which remains intact in this
example?
If you can't understand such a basic and fundamental issue as
self-determination, i doubt there is much point in discussing anything of
further or related significance. Hopefully, you just need some time to
reflect on this?
Rivers..@.......Seascapetowers..GCAN Frank Rivers.......
"Top Poster" <T...@Poster.co____m> wrote in message
news:q8r_c.108802$X12.106045@edtnps84...
>
>
> "notritenoteri" <colda...@hades.com> wrote in message
> news:khj_c.2996$H23....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> >I had a quick look at the sight its so fucking confused like you that its
> > unintelligable. If your a lawyer you couldn't argue a parking ticket and
> > win.
>
> Not-too-bright is jealous. All he did with his life was booze it up.
Now
> he's almost at the end of his rope and he's desperate for attention.
>
> His head operation didn't take, and the neighbourhood kids are scared of
> him.
LOL's, that explains something's, but the truth was notobright also was
lobotomized, by the same socialist government it holds so dear.
Tyl�r__��den.�
>
> >"Frank Rivers......." <Frank Rivers..@.......Seascapetowers..GCAN> wrote
in
> message news:18p_c.106382$X12.99851@edtnps84...
>
> >Frank wrote:
> > Heidi you been brainwashed.
>
> No, Frank, I'm very much aware of the *reality* of the situation. It's
you
> who has been brainwashed into believing you can be "free."
>
> >You can't force a contract on anyone.
>
> Sure you can. It's done every day. "Sign this. You have no choice...not
> if you want to be a member of this society."
Can you give us an example of a "forced contract" you have to sign to be a
member of society?
The term "forced contract" is incoherent, unprincipled and unlawful;
certainly under our common law of Magna Carta.
If the government is forcing you into agreements, i suggest you start a
sheriff department in your area to enforce the common law.
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/why_common_law.htm