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Mike Abendroth

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Aug 26, 2010, 8:18:18 AM8/26/10

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New Horizons for and Old Lie:

A Theological Critique of Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer

By Mark Christopher

When J.I. Packer wrote his magnum opus, Knowing God, thirty-five years ago, he stated in the forward that one of his reasons for doing so was because most were so consumed with the spirit of the age that God had become remote and distant, as preachers were looking through the wrong end of the telescope. Correspondingly, society and the church were infected with a pygmy view of God.

Things have not improved much over the course of the last 35 years. Today both the pulpit and the pew suffer from the malady lamented by the psalmist in Psalm 50:21-22 "These things you have done, and I kept silence; You thought that I was just like you; I will reprove you, and state the case in order before your eyes. ²² ‘Now consider this, you who forget God, Lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver’.” It is like the old saying that God created man in His image and man has been returning the favor ever since.

Just walk into the average Christian Book Store and look at what is on offer. It confirms all that I am saying. Most of what is an offer in these stores is candy-coated self help books that cater to the promotion of a new and improved you. Most of these retail outlets even set up what amounts to a shrine for the “A” list gurus of modern day Christianity. Two notable Christian superstars that have become household names with those both in and out of the church are Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer. Both have an international reach with their books and syndicated TV ministries.

A few months ago I was minding my own business when I decided to walk into what was labeled as a Christian Book Store. The two biggest displays in the store were dedicated to Osteen and Meyer. As it was just prior to Christmas, their books were flying off the shelf. I begrudgingly bit my lower lip and took the plunge and bought the recent best sellers of both “evangelists”. After reading both authors, I had to conclude not only are they both looking through the wrong end of the telescope, but both are guilty of not even taking the cover off the lens!

Those who read their books and listen to their broadcasts will learn far more about Meyer and Osteen than they will about God. In fact, God seems to be an addendum to their thinking. They both personify the spirit of the age with their easy listening approach and cotton candy theology. When the credits finally role it is apparent that self is the star of their brand of theology, while God is relegated to the lesser position of supporting actor.

As we begin considering the beliefs, respective ministries, and impact of Osteen and Meyer, it is important to remember that both are prosperity preachers who have gone main-stream. Those familiar with the theology of the health, wealth, and prosperity gospel will quickly discern that both Meyer and Osteen are steeped in the theology of prosperity. They are just more subtle than their predecessors.

For the purposes of this seminar we will look at a brief overview of each personality, their theology, and short rebuttal. Then we will conclude by outlining the characteristics of a false prophet as detailed by Jeremiah—a true prophet.

Joel Osteen—The Sultan of Smile.

1.1. Brief Background:

Joel Osteen first rose to prominence in 1999. Osteen’s father was the pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. The elder Osteen, who was a Southern Baptists turned prosperity preacher, died suddenly and Joel assumed the mantle his father left behind at the 8,000 member Lakewood Church.

Osteen had no formal training, except a one year stint at Oral Roberts University. But as he followed in the path of his father’s prosperity teachings, he soon caught on and Lakewood Church began growing exponentially. The TV ministry Osteen’s father began at Lakewood also exploded in its reach. Then Osteen released his first book Your Best Life Now, which became an instant New York Times Bestseller.

Lakewood’s 8,000 person auditorium proved insufficient for the burgeoning congregation, as five services were needed to accommodate the throngs who crowded his services. Osteen purchased the Compaq Center, which used to host the NBA Basketball team the Houston Rockets. Buying and refurbishing the Compaq Center cost a whopping 110 million dollars. Now every Sunday 48,000 people attend the Compaq Center in three separate services. Osteen just released his second bestselling book, Become A Better You, which he received a 3 million dollar advance on before it even hit the shelves. Now Osteen is seen all over the world through his TV broadcast and personal appearances in coliseums around America and the world. People will pay fifty US dollars to go hear Osteen at their local auditorium.

So what is his unprecedented appeal? Why do people from all religious and denominational backgrounds follow his ministry? In summary, Osteen preaches the gospel of self-glory and personal happiness. The cross never even enters the viewfinder of his message. In his latest book, Become a Better You, Osteen informs his readers “God has put in you everything you need to live a victorious life. Now it is up to you to draw it out … It is all about you. You are full of potential … You have the seed of the Almighty God inside you … The key to rising higher is to keep looking where you want to go. Dream big dreams.” There you have it, it is all up to you to have the life you always wanted. The only prohibition is the limits you place on yourself. God is there in a cameo role to serve as your bellhop to aid you making your dreams come true.

Osteen’s approach is nothing new. It is the same old health, wealth, and prosperity that has been making the rounds for the last 40 years. What is new is his style which successfully combines aspects of the prosperity gospel with elements of the seeker-sensitive movement. This results in a more palatable hybrid that removes some of the more course aspects of the prosperity presentation, thus proving less offensive and more appealing than traditional prosperity preaching.

1.2. A Brief Summary of his Theology:

After studying Osteen’s writings and some of his sermons, I have to conclude Osteen has ology devoid of the theos (God). He has no theological distinctives. In an appearance on Larry King Live in 2005 he answered “I don’t know” 39 times in the course of a 47 minute interview. So by his own admission he doesn’t know much. Yet every week millions around the world tune in Joel to get their fix of bubonic-narcissism for the week. I wonder how many of those same people would visit a doctor who answered “I don’t know” to the most basic questions concerning medicine and their own personal health? Yet, they will entrust their soul-care and eternal destiny to one who professes ignorance on the essentials of Christian faith.

Here is but a sample of What Osteen believes about some major doctrines:

· Self (man)—It is evident he commits the pelagian error of believing in human goodness and man’s perfectibility through self-help techniques, “You have the DNA of Almighty God. You come from a long line of champions … If God had a refrigerator your picture would be on it … You can be a better person.” Much of what he says about man has echoes of the little god theology of the prosperity theologians.

· Sin—“The curse is behind any kind of defeat—sin, mistakes, wrong choices, fear, worry, constant sickness, unhealthy relationships, or bad attitudes.” So in other words you are exonerated. It isn’t your fault, the curse made you do it. Elsewhere Osteen declares, “God is not looking at what you’ve done wrong; He’s looking at what you’ve done right.” Based on this I don’t need to worry about 1 John 1:9 because the confession of sin would be an admission of a sin consciousness and unneeded guilt.

One quickly learns that what Osteen means by sin is drastically different from the historical understanding of the same. In Osteen’s reckoning, the only real sin is never living up to your true potential. The wages of sin is not death, but rather failing to become a better you. He reduces sin to “sins”, which amounts to moralizing. He fails to see sin as a constitutional affliction. He assumes all are good. So there is no vertical dimension to our sin, only the horizontal. One doesn’t sin against God. The real sin is not being true to yourself by living your dream. Yet the Bible reminds us that “The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked, who can know it.” (Jeremiah 17:9)

As Michael Horton sagely notes, “… Because he doesn’t face the bad news, Osteen does not have any good news.”

· Salvation (The Gospel)—When he was on Larry King in 2005 Osteen was asked about the nature of the gospel, What he said was as disheartening as it was telling: “The Gospel’s called the good news. My message is a message of hope that God’s for you. You can have a good life no matter what’s happened to you … I know there is condemnation but I don’t feel that’s my place.” So he is like a fire marshal who never points out the fire hazards in your home while claiming it isn’t in his job description to do that:

KING: Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't.

OSTEEN: Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you're a believer in God, you're going to have some good works. I think it's a cop-out to say I'm a Christian but I don't ever do anything ...

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

KING: Phoenix, Arizona. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. You're the best, and thank you, Joe -- Joel -- for your positive messages and your book. I'm wondering, though, why you side-stepped Larry's earlier question about how we get to heaven? The bible clearly tells us that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and the only way to the father is through him. That's not really a message of condemnation but of truth.

OSTEEN: Yes, I would agree with her. I believe that...

KING: So then a Jew is not going to heaven?

OSTEEN: No. Here's my thing, Larry, is I can't judge somebody's heart. You know? Only god can look at somebody's heart, and so -- I don't know. To me, it's not my business to say, you know, this one is or this one isn't. I just say, here's what the bible teaches and I'm going to put my faith in Christ. And I just I think it's wrong when you go around saying, you're saying you're not going, you're not going, you're not going, because it's not exactly my way. I'm just...

KING: But you believe your way.

OSTEEN: I believe my way. I believe my way with all my heart.

KING: But for someone who doesn't share it is wrong, isn't he?

OSTEEN: Well, yes. Well, I don't know if I look at it like that. I would present my way, but I'm just going to let god be the judge of that. I don't know. I don't know.

(Larry King Live Interview, June 20, 2005, http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.htm)

Concerning US republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who is a Mormon, Osteen said, “I’ve heard him say he believes Jesus is his savior just like I do.” But Mormons believe in the law of eternal progression—as man is, God once was; As God is, man will someday be. This is not far from Osteen’s little god theology.

In Osteen’s version of the gospel, the standard is not God’s righteousness, but fun and fulfillment are what matters. It is all about happiness, not holiness. But as Romans teaches the gospel, salvation is that God justifies the ungodly. But In Osteen’s epicurean evangel there is no place for law and sin. Hence, there is no grace. In Osteen’s vernacular the sinner’s prayer sounds something like this, “You need to start getting up every morning and saying with confidence: ‘God is pleased with me. God approves me. God accepts me just they way I am.’”

· Satan—Osteen never refers to Satan by name except to call him “the enemy”. So you are never sure who or what he is referring to when he speaks about the enemy. When King asked him if God loved the Devil, Osteen almost swallowed his teeth. He equivocated with his customary “I don’t know … I’ll let Dr. Graham answer that.”

· Suffering—This is a foreign concept in his way of

thinking. This would be antithetical to having your best life now and would impede becoming a better you.

Yet:

John 12:27 "Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, 'Father, save Me from this hour '? But for this purpose I came to this hour”.

James 1:2-3 “Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, ³ knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.”

The Apostle Paul’s boast was in the cross, but Osteen’s boast is in possessions and good health. I personally think Osteen should bring his message to the townships of South Africa, so all can have a better life now. Maybe his brand of theology can accomplish something no government policy can!

· Scripture—Osteen says he believes in inspiration, but by his actions he proves he doesn’t. He seldom cites scripture. In his books he refrains from citing scripture unless it is a clause or sentence at a time, and then he seldom gives the reference. I guess this keeps good Bereans from checking him out. Scripture seems to be an embarrassment for him, but it is convenient when you need a proof-text to convince gullible Christians.

1.3. A Summary of one key error in Osteen’s teaching:

Because Osteen is a classic prosperity teacher in drag, as far as I can determine, he holds to all the same heretical beliefs associated with that movement, he just isn’t as overt as his mentors. One of the key prosperity teachings that both he and Joyce Meyer hold to is that Faith is a Formula … a force that can either work for you or against you depending on your thoughts and words:

“‘No, you can beat it,’ I encouraged him. ‘The power in you is greater than the addiction. But you’ve got to change your attitude. You’ve got to start saying, ‘I’m free’. Declare that every day. Don’t talk about the way you are, talk about the way you want to be … ‘Well, Joel, my grandmother had diabetes. My mother has diabetes. It looks like I’m going to have it to.’ When you think like that, you’re planning to be diabetic. You’re inviting the malady into your life. You need to put your foot down and say, ‘Grandmother may have had it. Mother may have had it. But as for me and my house, we’re redeemed from diabetes. I’m going to live under the blessing and not the curse.’ Don’t make plans for negative things.” (ppg. 44-45, Become A Better You)

When Osteen elaborates on this point, he recounts that his father had a family history of stroke. The elder Osteen created a new reality with his positive speech and refused to die from a stroke as many before him in the Osteen family had. Instead, Osteen’s father died of a heart attack. I guess to ward off all illness you would have to claim redemption from every illness known to man to keep from getting sick or dying.

Later, in a chapter entitled Making Your Words Work for You, Osteen puts a unique twist on the Genesis account of Abraham and Sarah. Osteen maintains that God changed their respective names to improve their self-image, so they would then have enough faith to have the child God had promised them: “Every time somebody said, ‘Hey, Abraham. How are you doing?’ they were saying, ‘Hello, father of many nations.’ He heard this so often, it began to sink down inside him. Sarah was an older woman who never had any children. She probably didn’t feel much like a princess, but every time somebody said, ‘Hello, Sarah,’ they were saying, ‘Hello, princess.’ Over time, that changed her self-image. Now, she no longer saw herself as an older, barren woman; she began to see herself as a princess.” (p. 113, Become A Better You)

Though an interesting take on God changing the names of Abram and Sari to Abraham and Sarah, God didn’t change their names to improve their ‘self-image’. Rather, God changed their names to remind them of His promise to make a great nation from Abraham. This was God’s affirmation of His promise. By faith, they believed God!

Osteen sums up his belief in the power of words to create a new reality, “Change the way you speak about yourself and you can change your life.” (pg. 112).

No one is advocating that we speak in self-deprecating tones about ourselves. On the contrary, Christians of all people have a real hope the world does not have. But our hope is not in ourselves, it is in the one who redeemed us from the curse of the law, Jesus Christ. Osteen’s brand of optimism fails to account for reality and limitations placed on finite creatures in a cursed world. He is setting many up for a fall and extreme disappointment.

This is classic word of faith theology straight from the script of Kenneth Hagin and Ken Copeland.

Faith to Osteen’s way of thinking is a force, and when the right formula is followed, then you can get exactly what you want. Our faith activates God who is a faith being Himself. Word of Faith (WOF) teaches that words are a container to carry the substance of our faith. They use Hebrews 11:1 to prove this “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (KJV). But the NSAB more accurately translates the verse “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” The word hupostasis (a support) is better translated in this context as assurance—the assurance that God’s word is true regardless of one’s circumstances. If faith is a “substance”, then words are the vehicle for transporting faith.

To shore up their arguments, classic WOF teachers maintain that God Himself is a “faith being”. This, they base on Mark 11:22 “And Jesus answered saying to them, ‘Have faith in God’.” WOF teachers make the noun “God” a subjective genitive—the faith of God. But, not one Greek scholar I know of translates this as a subjective genitive. Rather, it is an objective genitive, which means it makes God the object of faith. If God were a faith being, then He would be subject to limitation. Yet, because they misinterpret this verse, they maintain that just as God spoke the world into existence according to His faith, so you, in like manner, can speak your own reality into existence if you follow the magical formula.

What is the magical formula of WOF practitioners?:

· Say it—choose your words carefully. Make sure they are positive words. As Osteen says, “Don’t talk about the way you are, talk about the way you want to be.” Never entertain negative speech. Don’t even hang around negative people. This is why Christ left Nazareth, because they were negative and would have held Him back.

· Do it—according to your actions you will receive. So, if it is a baby you want to have, but you haven’t been able to conceive, then say it and start getting the baby’s room ready! If it is a boy you want, then paint the room blue.

· Receive it—plug in to the positive polarity of God and receive His positive flow.

· Tell it to others—this is the network marketing scheme of the WOF teachers.

This is nothing less then occultic teaching. It amounts to the New Age law of attraction—“like attracts like”. Hence, our thoughts and words either build or destroy. Osteen is in perfect sync with this when he teaches “What you send out always comes back to you.” In other words it is karma. I have to ask is this guy a Christian or a Buddhist?

Great faith has nothing to do with reducing Christ and the gospel to a limitless expense account to be used at our leisure. Rather, great faith is trusting God in spite of unfavorable circumstances, annoyances, and or hardships. True faith looks to Jesus regardless of one’s situation.

Hank Hanegraaff cogently remarked, “Notice the dilemma this creates. On the one hand we are told that we are to claim our healing, even when the physical manifestation has not yet presented itself. On the other hand we are told that when we are healed, disease can appear again if our faith falters. It places you between a rock and a hard place doesn’t it? I might add that it lets the Faith teacher off the hook every time. If you say to him, ‘I tried your formula and it didn’t work,’ he can smugly smile at you and say, ‘If you believe and don’t doubt, you can have what you say.’ But if you are supposedly healed and later lose your healing, you are blamed for your own negative confession. Pretty convenient!” (Hank Hanegraaff, Christianity In Crisis, pg.78). In other words, when what you desired fails to materialize, it was your faith that was weak. The problem is with you, not the formula.

I can only conclude that those who follow the teaching of this sultan of smile will become sevenfold more the children of hell. Osteen’s teaching is as subtle as it is pernicious. Don’t be fooled by his nice manner. Just because he is nice, and I don’t doubt that he is, doesn’t mean he is a loving. A doctor who withholds vital information concerning the state of your health may think he is being nice, but he certainly isn’t being very loving or considerate.

Joyce Meyer: The Marine Drill Sergeant in a pantsuit and pumps.

2.1. A Brief Background:

Like Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer is a self-taught prosperity preacher (no formal training) is a house-wife turned preacher. She was abused as a child by her father. She married young, had a child and then divorced. She then married her current husband, Dave Meyer, or as some know him “Mrs. Meyer’s husband.” They have three children, all of whom work for Joyce Meyer Ministries.

Meyer’s rise to evangelical stardom began in the eighties when she started teaching a ladies Bible study. The phenomenal growth of her study led to a staff position at a church near the Meyer’s home close to St. Louis, Missouri. This ultimately led to her becoming an itinerate preacher with a radio ministry and then TV.

She has written well over 50 books ranging from topics like diet and fitness, to counseling, and the one I read Knowing God Intimately. Joyce Meyer Ministries is headquartered in Fenton, Missouri with a number satellites in countries like Australia, UK, and South Africa—just down the road from me in West Lake. Her syndicated TV program is now seen daily in over 70 countries. She is making plans to launch her broadcast in the Middle-East. She is probably more of a household name than Joel Osteen. I have met numerous people who are familiar with her either through her books or TV, or both.

Her popularity is evidenced by her bank account. She is the highest grossing Tele-evangelist in the world. Last year alone, her ministry made over 129 million dollars. Of course being a good prosperity preacher, she has expensive tastes. As a result, Meyer, along with six other prosperity ministries in the USA, is currently under investigation by US Senate Finance Committee. The case is still pending. At stake here is her non-profit status. Like most high profile ministries, she makes lavish purchases and claims them as “ministry expenses”. How one can claim a $105,000 dollar speed boat as a “ministry expense”, escapes me. I would think that someone with that much faith could walk on the water and so wouldn’t need a boat!

Her justification for the lavish life-style is “We teach and preach and believe biblically that God wants to bless people who serve Him … So there’s no need for us to apologize for being blessed.” It will be interesting to see what the US Senate Finance Committee has to say about such rational!

2.2. A Summary of her beliefs:

Unlike Osteen, Meyer is more defined and easier to characterize regarding doctrine. Make no mistake, she is a classic prosperity preacher. For this reason, she doesn’t have a problem usurping her God given role as a woman and teaching to mixed audiences (See 1 Timothy 2:9-15). In all candor, she is more masculine than many preachers I know. If you heard her on the radio you might even mistake her for a man.

Her Beliefs:

· Classic prosperity doctrines: Little gods, Word of Faith, Spiritual Warfare, Generational Curses, Second Blessing, and unlimited healing—basically ‘kingdom now’ theology.

· (For an excellent summary of Meyer’s prosperity beliefs see the following article on Christian Research Institute website: http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2634591/k.BA24/DM472.htm )

· Sin—Though she is more open about sin than Osteen, she still makes the cardinal mistake of relegating sin to that which is purely moral in nature. She has no concept of total depravity or that sin is what ‘I am’ before it is what ‘I do’.

· Salvation—She believes Jesus was the first Born-again man from hell. While on Larry King she said ‘The whole Bible really has one message: ‘Obey me and do what I tell you to do and you’ll be blessed.’” Hence obedience is just a condition for material blessings.

· Scripture—Meyer uses numerous passages to try and support her often outlandish claims. She isn’t afraid to use scripture. Her problem is that even though she generously quotes from God’s word, she has absolutely no clue what it means. Her three favorite tools are Strong’s concordance, an Amplified Bible, and Vine’s dictionary. All good tools. But that is all she uses. In this she is a lot a mechanic trying overhaul a car engine using only three tools—a spanner, a hammer, and a car jack. An impossible task unless you are MacGyver. Meyer is no MacGyver, she is more like Houdini, always pulling a rabbit out of the hat. Her hermeneutic is herself and her experience. Her whole approach to scripture is the Bumper-car approach. She rams her experiences into passages and makes them fit. Much like Cinderella’s step-sisters pushed their fat feet into the glass slipper.

· Spiritual Warfare—She blames a spirit of incest for her own childhood abuse by her father.

· Holy Spirit—Meyer majors on the Holy Spirit almost to the exclusion of the other two persons of the trinity. She, like most of her genre, is ignorant that her obsession with the Spirit actually diminishes the role of the Father and the Son-- John 16:13-14 ¹³ "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. ¹⁴ "He shall glorify Me; for He shall take of Mine, and shall disclose it to you. ¹⁵ "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said, that He takes of Mine, and will disclose it to you.”.

2.3. A Summary of One Key Error: Baptism in the Spirit.

In her book Becoming Intimate with God: As Intimate as You Want to Be, Meyer’s whole thesis is that the only way to become intimate with God is through a second blessing of the Holy Spirit, a subsequent baptism of the Spirit that exponentially catapults one to the next level of spirituality. This is a far cry from a classic like J.I. Packer’s Knowing God. In fact, I pulled Knowing God off the shelf and compared the table contents of Packer’s book with Meyer’s book. The contrast was as stark as comparing the menu at a very expensive 5 star restaurant to that of the menu at McDonalds. It is the difference between steak and spam. Packer of course is steak!

Meyer maintains, “I believe power comes with the baptism of the Holy Spirit … After the baptism in the Holy Spirit, I experienced a closer fellowship and intimacy with God than I had ever known before.”

She explains what happened to her on that February morning in 1976, “To My surprise I heard an audible voice of God that morning in my car. He called my name and spoke to me about patience. From that moment, I knew with certainty that God was going to do something about my situation. I didn’t know what He would do or when, but I knew that He was about to move in my life.” She elaborated on that experience when on Larry King, “I actually felt like somebody took my head off and filled me with liquid love and put my head back on and turned me loose.” Some might conclude that her head was cross-threaded when it was put back.

The primary evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit, according to Meyer, is speaking in tongues, “It is true that not all believers speak in tongues, but I believe all can if they are willing to do so.” And later in the book she again states that “…once we are baptized in the Holy Spirit, we can speak in tongues whenever we want to.” Another nifty benefit of being baptized in the Spirit is that He will help you find your TV remote or car keys when they are lost! : “I decided to pray. So silently in my heart I said, ‘Holy Spirit, show me where the remote control is, please.’ Immediately in my spirit I thought of the bathroom and, sure enough, that’s where it was.”

Throughout the book she confuses the filling of the Spirit with baptism of the Spirit, by making them synonymous works of the Spirit. Then she challenges her readers to seek all the gifts of the Spirit, especially those I would deem as sign gifts reserved for the early church. Meyer seemingly has little time or use for service gifts like helps or administration. Her silence on these speaks volumes.

Near the end of the her book she links the baptism of the Spirit with Matthew 3:11-12 "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. ¹² And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Meyer mistakenly combines the baptism in the Spirit with the fire John spoke of. She equates this fire with the refiners fire of Malachi 3:2:

“We have seen that God is a consuming fire, and that Jesus was sent to baptize with fire. Unless we allow the fire of God to burn in our life, we will never exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit.”

2.4. A Brief Rebuttal of this teaching:

2.4.1. Meyer makes copious use of various OT passages to try to buttress her argument. Passages like 1Samuel 10:6 "Then the Spirit of the LORD will come upon you mightily, and you shall prophesy with them and be changed into another man.”

But these passages all refer to a special outpouring of the Spirit for service unto the Lord. In the passage above it has reference to the theocratic enablement that was given to the King of Israel for ruling God’s chosen nation. This is why David petitioned God not to take His Spirit from him (Psalm 51:11).

Baptism in the Spirit is a uniquely NT concept for the church. It is what distinguishes the church from Israel. Meyer cannot provide one credible OT passage to prove OT saints were baptized in the Spirit.

2.4.2. Meyer tries to make Acts normative for the believer today. A hermeneutical question that must be asked when approaching the book of Acts: Is it prescriptive or descriptive? If Acts 2 is normative, then why not Acts 5 with Ananias and Sapphira? Acts is instructive for us, but it is historically unique as it underscores this very transitional epoch in the development of the early church, when the foundation was laid on the Apostles and prophets (Eph. 2:20). Why didn’t Paul include the doctrine of subsequence in his great theological bulwark Romans?

2.4.3. Meyer confuses the ‘filling’ of the Spirit with ‘baptism’ in the Spirit. These are not synonymous activities. According to Ephesians 5:18, the filling spoken of is a repeatable activity of God’s Spirit. This filling ultimately results in relationship repair, both vertically and horizontally. The verbal idea of the filling is present continuous tense. It is something that happens over and over again. When we quench the Spirit through sin and then repent, then God fills the sail of our life with his Spirit once again. But this results in godly relationships as the context in Ephesians 5:19-6:9 illustrates. Conversely, Spirit baptism is a non-repeatable placement (not an experience) into the body of Christ at the very moment of salvation.

2.4.4. In 1 Corinthians 12:13 the following observations mitigate against Meyer’s misaligned view, “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.” :

The context of 1 Corinthians 12 is Paul’s overriding concern for the unity and oneness for the common good for “all” in the Corinthian congregation. Paul is not advocating a two tier caste system for Christianity—the ‘haves’ vs. the ‘have nots’, what Meyer calls religious believers vs. relational believers.

Hermeneutically there is synonymous parallelism between being ‘baptized’ and ‘drinking’ of one Spirit. They refer to one in the same activity. They are not separate sequential thoughts that support subsequence.

The prepositions in the first clause help qualify the passage: ‘en’—‘by’ or more properly ‘in’ indicates the element in which the baptized is immersed i.e. the Spirit. Next ‘eis’—‘into’ one body is directional in nature and highlights the motion toward something, which in this instance is “the Body of Christ”. Here Spirit Baptism is clearly seen to be a placement, not an experience that is the result of some subsequent zapping of the Spirit.

The parsing of the verb ‘baptized’ is aorist passive indicative. Therefore, the action is point action indicating when one is placed into the Body, which is at the moment of conversion. Thus, it is unrepeatable.

Because it is plural, each individual believer can claim to be part of the “all” who know Christ enjoy His benefits. As an indicative verb, it is a reality—a reality that happens at the precise moment of salvation.

As the verb is passive, the activity is external to us as an outside source acts upon with no effort on our part. This means believers don’t seek this. We are never told to seek this.

2.4.5. Meyer’s teaching on subsequence bifurcates faith. It leads to 2 foci of faith:Christ and the Spirit. This presents some Christological conundrums for Meyer. The Spirit (1 Cor.12:3) is in the business of exalting Christ, not Himself. Based on John 16:12-15 (above), NT scholar Homer Kent Jr., insightfully observed,

“Occasionally the criticism is heard that the Holy Spirit is not honored sufficiently by present-day Christians. However, if Christ is given the proper emphasis, then the Spirit’s basic ministry among believers is being responded to. Any movement supposedly led by the Spirit which focuses most of the interest on the phenomena of the Spirit is contrary to this statement of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is honored when Christ is glorified in our lives.” (Homer Kent Jr., Light In Darkness—Studies In The Gospel of John,Baker Book House, 1982, ppg. 187-88)

2.4.6. Regarding the Refiner’s fire Meyer erroneously attributes to Matthew 3:11-12 (above): this passage is not referring to a purely gracious outpouring of His Spirit (Christ’s) for empowerment. The context clearly indicates judgment (v.12). The religious leaders are in mind here. The preposition ‘en’ modifies both “Spirit and fire”. Though it is one baptism by Christ, it has two inaugurating features, just like the 2 comings of Christ. The baptism of the Spirit is the church age, while the baptism of fire awaits judgment day—Don’t seek this. Meyer is ignorantly asking for eternal damnation! Meyer needs to be careful what she asks for here, she just might get it.

3. Combined Dangers of the Dynamic Duo:

3.1. They are authoritarian: Jeremiah 5:31 “The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule on their own authority; And My people love it so! But what will you do at the end of it?”

Meyer’s claim that God won’t allow her to go off into error is an example of this. If she does wonder off the beaten path a “bell will go off in her head”, she claims. She must be deaf!

Another example is that both Meyer and Osteen rely almost exclusively on stories about themselves. This subtly indicates they think they are authorities and that their experiences are authoritative. Yet, there is absolutely no way verify their claims to see if they are true.

3.2. They have a definite agenda: Jeremiah 23:25 "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, 'I had a dream, I had a dream!' ²⁶ ‘How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart.’”

It has already been demonstrated that their agenda is to please man and pad their pockets with spoils. Their god is their belly. They have a dream and they encourage others to live their dreams, but most will find out too late that the dream is really a nightmare of eternal proportions.

3.3. They both have tremendous appeal: Jeremiah 5:12 “They have lied about the LORD And said, ‘Not He; Misfortune will not come on us; And we will not see sword or famine. ¹³ ‘And the prophets are as wind, And the word is not in them. Thus it will be done to them!’"

Jeremiah 6:14 "And they have healed the brokenness of My people superficially, Saying, 'Peace, peace,' But there is no peace.”

False prophets say what those with itching ears want to hear. They placate the perverse appetites of the age. They are always positive in spite of the wrath God has promised to those who fail to repent. They never want to go against the current, so they will answer tough questions with “I don’t know” or like Meyer, when asked how she knew she was right, she responded and said to King, “All I know is this works.” She didn’t say it was right, or that it was true, but just that it works. There are many atheists and occultist who could say the same.

The clamoring self-centered masses want to hear prosperity, promises of riches untold, blessings beyond belief, and they desire personal pampering, so these false prophets whisper their noxious sweet nothings in the ears of their audience--all the while filling them with false hope.

Yet, the true prophets often pay a terrible price for their commitment to God and His word—see Jeremiah 38:4!

3.4.Their approach is anthropocentric (man-centered): Jeremiah 10:23 “I know, O LORD, that a man's way is not in himself; Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.”

Remember Osteen said, “It is all about you.” Become a better you today! Meyer also reminded us that we can be as intimate with God as we want to be. No pressure. What ever you are comfortable with. The unregenerate man has self lodged in his throat and God, through Christ, will perform the Heimlich and dislodge self.

3.5. They are anti-historical: Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD, "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you shall find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

They both mock the ancient paths of orthodoxy. They ridicule tradition to their own detriment. True prophets on the other hand don’t invent new theories.

Both Osteen and Meyer know nothing of the ancient paths. They are completely ignorant of church history. Therefore, they are doomed to repeat the apostasies of the past. They know nothing of the history of our faith. Thus they have no guide, nor do they have any reference points to keep them headed in the right direction.

3.6 .They are both avaricious (greedy): Jeremiah 6:13 "For from the least of them even to the greatest of them, Everyone is greedy for gain, And from the prophet even to the priest Everyone deals falsely.”

Here is but a small sample of Meyer’s extravagance,

“…a $19,000 pair of Dresden vases, six French crystal vases bought for
$18,500, an $8,000 Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity, two $5,800 curio
cabinets, a $5,700 porcelain of the Crucifixion, a pair of German porcelain
vases bought for $5,200.

The decor includes a $30,000 malachite round table, a $23,000 marble-topped
antique commode, a $14,000 custom office bookcase, a $7,000 Stations of the
Cross in Dresden porcelain, a $6,300 eagle sculpture on a pedestal, another
eagle made of silver bought for $5,000, and numerous paintings purchased for
$1,000 to $4,000 each.

Inside Meyer’s private office suite sit a conference table and 18 chairs bought
for $49,000. The woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband cost the
ministry $44,000.” (St. Louis Dispatch story http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/special/joycemeyer.nsf/0/C5099399D2FCC5FA86256DDF00661C5F?OpenDocument)

Indeed, the wicked prosper. Prosperity is no true gauge of God’s favor and approval. Otherwise Bill Gates, Donald Trump, and Warren Buffet could claim they are in God’s will, as they make Meyer and Osteen look like beggars.

As Jeremiah 12:1 reminds us “Righteous art Thou, O LORD, that I would plead my case with Thee; Indeed I would discuss matters of justice with Thee: Why has the way of the wicked prospered? Why are all those who deal in treachery at ease?”

3.7. They advance themselves: Jeremiah 45:5 'But you, are you seeking great things for yourself? Do not seek them; for behold, I am going to bring disaster on all flesh,' declares the LORD, 'but I will give your life to you as booty in all the places where you may go.'"

They both elevate themselves to advance their respective ministries. Their ministries are named after themselves. Richard Baxter in his Christian Directory warns about those who would name buildings and ministries after themselves, as it is a sign of malignant pride. Look on the respective covers of their books, whose picture do you see? I went through all of John MacArthur’s books and not one of the many books he has written has a portrait of John. Now, contrast that with the dynamic duo. They can’t get enough of the limelight.

3.8. They are ambiguous: Jeremiah 8:11 "And they heal the brokenness of the daughter of My people superficially, Saying, 'Peace, peace,' But there is no peace.”

They can never get beyond the surface. They utter the same monotonous themes over and over again. Reading their books is like getting on a treadmill that just goes around and around. The blizzard of lies begins to all sound the same. They are an inch deep and a mile wide. What they say never comes to pass. As Jeremiah concludes "Harvest is past, summer is ended, And we are not saved." Such is the sad commentary on the respective ministries of both Meyer and Osteen. They both have forgotten (or perhaps it has never dawned on them) that Christ did not die to make us happy, but to make us holy!

As C.S. Lewis once remarked, “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.”

Bibliography: New Horizons for an Old Lie

Clariborne, Winfred. “Prosperity: Another Gospel.” Online at

http://www.gospelhour.net/2104.html , accessed 4/21/08.

CNN Transcript. Larry King Live Interview with Joel Osteen June 20, 2005.

Online at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html ,

Accessed 4/21/08.

CNN Transcript. Larry King Live Interview Joel and Victoria Osteen

December 26, 2007. Online at

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0712/26/lkl.01.html ,

accessed 4/21/08.

CNN Transcript. Larry King Live Interview with Joyce Meyer May 19,

Online at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0505/19/lkl.01.html