I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts, etc.)
Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone good at code? I'm interested in talking.
I'm a bit interested.. but I wouldn't really use a printer.. printers are usually servos.. if you were to adapt the controls from the printer then it'd probably be economically feasible.. but I have gecko servo drives and a bin of 24v swiss dc servos as it is.. probably better off building your own setup for it.
Why a pdf? I'd look into converting models into pcl if using the printer controls.. also makes me think that it might be worthwhile to get some old laser printers and adapting them to some form of SLS.. I also have a 445nm 2.6w laser with a modulation controller on it.. already had it burning test materials with a ramps board and some inkscape g-code manipulation on a rotary axis engraver I'm building.
On Monday, October 1, 2012 7:51:43 PM UTC-7, Keavon Chambers wrote:
> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can > print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but > I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF > of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing > ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for > much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make > its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding > motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the > arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back > before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version > that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts, > etc.)
> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone > good at code? I'm interested in talking.
You guys have seen the powder based printer on thingiverse called Powdr or
something like that right? Assuming it does have some critical flaw id
think that building one of those and contributing to that project would
make the most sense.
On Oct 1, 2012 7:51 PM, "Keavon Chambers" <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can
> print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but
> I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF
> of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing
> ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for
> much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make
> its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding
> motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the
> arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back
> before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version
> that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts,
> etc.)
> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone
> good at code? I'm interested in talking.
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> You guys have seen the powder based printer on thingiverse called Powdr or
> something like that right? Assuming it does have some critical flaw id
> think that building one of those and contributing to that project would
> make the most sense.
> On Oct 1, 2012 7:51 PM, "Keavon Chambers" <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can
>> print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but
>> I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF
>> of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing
>> ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for
>> much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
>> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make
>> its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding
>> motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the
>> arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back
>> before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
>> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version
>> that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts,
>> etc.)
>> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone
>> good at code? I'm interested in talking.
>> --
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>> "Bay Area RepRap" group.
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I've seen that. It seems that it wants to hack into the ink cartridge
itself and use its own motors and make its own actual gcode. So I believe
it doesn't print color. I'm interested in taking the easier route-- just
mount the existing printer's parts in different places and make it print 2D
images like normal over powder, and just have a little arduino do the rest
of the action required to spread the powder over the next layer and lower
the bed. Seems like a much easier method.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:55 AM, Taylor Alexander <tlalexan...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Taylor Alexander <tlalexan...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> You guys have seen the powder based printer on thingiverse called Powdr
>> or something like that right? Assuming it does have some critical flaw id
>> think that building one of those and contributing to that project would
>> make the most sense.
>> On Oct 1, 2012 7:51 PM, "Keavon Chambers" <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that
>>> can print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own,
>>> but I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a
>>> PDF of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just
>>> sharing ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much
>>> homework for much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
>>> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and
>>> make its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper
>>> feeding motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the
>>> end of the arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the
>>> arm back before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
>>> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version
>>> that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts,
>>> etc.)
>>> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone
>>> good at code? I'm interested in talking.
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Bay Area RepRap" group.
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perhaps it's easier, but I feel that you're going to be limiting yourself with printer hardware. what binders can you add color to? what's going to be the soft limits of the printer controllers movement range? i'm pretty sure that most printers widths would be larger than the current hbp's, so would be large enough anyways.
you're also going to need to find or most likely build your own toolchain to convert your objects to a colored version of sliced gcode/pcl/pdf to drive it.
i haven't seen how the color powder printers actually apply the color, but i do recall seeing layers midprint, and only the outside edges had color, so it might not be directly mixed with binder.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 2, 2012, at 6:20, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've seen that. It seems that it wants to hack into the ink cartridge itself and use its own motors and make its own actual gcode. So I believe it doesn't print color. I'm interested in taking the easier route-- just mount the existing printer's parts in different places and make it print 2D images like normal over powder, and just have a little arduino do the rest of the action required to spread the powder over the next layer and lower the bed. Seems like a much easier method.
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Taylor Alexander <tlalexan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> You guys have seen the powder based printer on thingiverse called Powdr or something like that right? Assuming it does have some critical flaw id think that building one of those and contributing to that project would make the most sense.
>>> On Oct 1, 2012 7:51 PM, "Keavon Chambers" <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
>>>> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
>>>> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts, etc.)
>>>> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone good at code? I'm interested in talking.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bay Area RepRap" group.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bay-area-reprap/-/FrZDq9xta1wJ.
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I am pretty sure that the regular inkjet ink binds the powder together. As
for how it prints, the head just shoots the ink on the flat layer of powder
as if it were paper. Then the arm spreads the powder over the next layer
and prints that.
The print heads are so proprietary that I doubt it would be possible to
interface with the head, and I'd rather write an app that slices a 3d model
into pages of 2d images instead of writing code that converts it to gcode.
It would be much easier.
As for the non-color binder, it would probably be best to fill the black
head with the clear binding material... some experimentation or research
should yield a good formula.
I'm not sure what you mean by bed size, but I'm expecting it will be 8.5 x
11 which is plenty, and I can always hack a larger printer if the need
occurs.
I'm also not sure what part of hardware I will be limiting myself with.
Sure, I can't do things like tell it to go to this spot, but I think it
also opens up possibilities like color and resuming on page X.
On Oct 2, 2012 9:30 AM, "Charles Butkus" <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> perhaps it's easier, but I feel that you're going to be limiting yourself
> with printer hardware. what binders can you add color to? what's going to
> be the soft limits of the printer controllers movement range? i'm pretty
> sure that most printers widths would be larger than the current hbp's, so
> would be large enough anyways.
> you're also going to need to find or most likely build your own toolchain
> to convert your objects to a colored version of sliced gcode/pcl/pdf to
> drive it.
> i haven't seen how the color powder printers actually apply the color, but
> i do recall seeing layers midprint, and only the outside edges had color,
> so it might not be directly mixed with binder.
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 2, 2012, at 6:20, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've seen that. It seems that it wants to hack into the ink cartridge
> itself and use its own motors and make its own actual gcode. So I believe
> it doesn't print color. I'm interested in taking the easier route-- just
> mount the existing printer's parts in different places and make it print 2D
> images like normal over powder, and just have a little arduino do the rest
> of the action required to spread the powder over the next layer and lower
> the bed. Seems like a much easier method.
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:55 AM, Taylor Alexander <tlalexan...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Taylor Alexander <tlalexan...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> You guys have seen the powder based printer on thingiverse called Powdr
>>> or something like that right? Assuming it does have some critical flaw id
>>> think that building one of those and contributing to that project would
>>> make the most sense.
>>> On Oct 1, 2012 7:51 PM, "Keavon Chambers" <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that
>>>> can print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own,
>>>> but I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a
>>>> PDF of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just
>>>> sharing ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much
>>>> homework for much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
>>>> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and
>>>> make its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper
>>>> feeding motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the
>>>> end of the arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the
>>>> arm back before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
>>>> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version
>>>> that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts,
>>>> etc.)
>>>> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone
>>>> good at code? I'm interested in talking.
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Bay Area RepRap" group.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bay-area-reprap/-/FrZDq9xta1wJ.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to bay-area-reprap@googlegroups.com.
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>>>> bay-area-reprap+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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On Monday, October 1, 2012 7:51:43 PM UTC-7, Keavon Chambers wrote:
> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can > print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but > I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF > of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing > ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for > much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make > its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding > motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the > arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back > before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version > that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts, > etc.)
> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone > good at code? I'm interested in talking.
thinking about it, why do you need it setup to return the axis after each layer? what does the printer do naturally between each page?
i think it'd be easier to adjust the slicing output to lay the next page down based on where the printer controller placed it.. basically just flipping the next page around/inverting the output to line up with the return pass. would probably need to burn like 1 dot of material in a corner to ensure that the printer 'homes' to the same end positions each pass.
how are you going to handle building the axis that used to roll the paper into moving linearly across the same distance as the paper did, with the same "steps per mm" that the old servo is configured in the controlller as? you might be able to swap out the quadrature encoder wheel to fool the controller for a different count. better yet would be to start with a firmware thats been hacked to allow you to customize it.
i'd be shooting for an axis thats based on legal sized paper, since it's basically free in the controller.. it'd also be awesome if you could build the powder dropper/leveler to do its job just behind the printhead as it makes a pass, so your next layerchange time is as free as z stepping up, but then you'll have a single direction printer without a lot of extra mechanics.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 6, 2012, at 15:16, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 1, 2012 7:51:43 PM UTC-7, Keavon Chambers wrote:
>> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
>> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
>> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts, etc.)
>> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone good at code? I'm interested in talking.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bay Area RepRap" group.
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> On Monday, October 1, 2012 7:51:43 PM UTC-7, Keavon Chambers wrote:
>> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
>> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
>> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts, etc.)
>> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone good at code? I'm interested in talking.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bay Area RepRap" group.
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It has to return the axis that originally moved the paper, because it
normally kicks the paper out and continues rolling forward even more for
future sheets. That has to be moved back to the start.
I'm not sure what you meant by your second paragraph (third paragraph if
you include "awesome." as the first).
I'm planning on just getting/making a sprocket that fits the exact size of
the rod, and somehow adjusting it to fit that so the belt moves the arm
across the bed at the right speed. That will require a lot of fine tuning,
though. Hacking the firmware would be awesome, but basically impossible.
Also, what's that about "swapping the quadrate encoder wheel"? Please tell
me more.
I'll make sure to let it print legal size. Why not have extra? :P Yes, the
roller will be behind the printhead, but the way the powder has to be
spread at a fast, even speed with the backwards spinning rod, it isn't
plausible to do it while it's printing, because it will go way too slowly,
and be kicking powder into printing area.
On another note, anyone know how to make an Arduino control stepper motors?
Charles Butkus, thanks for the link. However, I have somebody making me
some C# code, but it won't be able to do textures. It will export the image
with a color gradient, which proves that multiple colors work, but sadly
can't do custom colors (printing colored figurines and models is what I
want to do). Apparently textures will require rendering and OpenGL or
something in that area. Anyone know Python or writing Blender plugins? It
would be awesome to select objects in Blender, push ctrl + p, and get an
image to send to the printer. Of course the software will all be FOSS, so
some community members may be able to write a version that can do textures
and have more features.
I'm really interested in collaborating on this, specifically at the TSSJ
during the weekends. (I can't go to the Wednesday meetings anymore because
of school and homework). Tell me if you're interested.
On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 5:31 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> awesome.
> thinking about it, why do you need it setup to return the axis after each
> layer? what does the printer do naturally between each page?
> i think it'd be easier to adjust the slicing output to lay the next page
> down based on where the printer controller placed it.. basically just
> flipping the next page around/inverting the output to line up with the
> return pass. would probably need to burn like 1 dot of material in a corner
> to ensure that the printer 'homes' to the same end positions each pass.
> how are you going to handle building the axis that used to roll the paper
> into moving linearly across the same distance as the paper did, with the
> same "steps per mm" that the old servo is configured in the controlller as?
> you might be able to swap out the quadrature encoder wheel to fool the
> controller for a different count. better yet would be to start with a
> firmware thats been hacked to allow you to customize it.
> i'd be shooting for an axis thats based on legal sized paper, since it's
> basically free in the controller.. it'd also be awesome if you could build
> the powder dropper/leveler to do its job just behind the printhead as it
> makes a pass, so your next layerchange time is as free as z stepping up,
> but then you'll have a single direction printer without a lot of extra
> mechanics.
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 6, 2012, at 15:16, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 1, 2012 7:51:43 PM UTC-7, Keavon Chambers wrote:
>> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can
>> print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but
>> I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF
>> of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing
>> ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for
>> much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
>> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make
>> its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding
>> motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the
>> arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back
>> before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
>> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version
>> that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts,
>> etc.)
>> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone
>> good at code? I'm interested in talking.
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do the motors have encoders on them? lookup quadrature encoders.. its the common way of getting feedback for controlled motion. usually an optical encoder wheel that breaks a beam, so you get a 1000 pulse per 360 rev wheel, the quadrature turns that into 4 signals, so you get 1000*4 for a full rev, plus a gearhead multiplier if you have one. i have a set of faulhaber 24v servos that have agilent 1000 count encoders and a 143:1 gearhead. so it's something like 1000*4*143 per outputshaft rev. lots of resolution, and that's before coupling to a pulley or any other kind of drive system.
you could probably play with different wheels to fool the controller into moving different distances *if* you can find the right wheel/matching machine setup. or even possibly finding a good motor/encoder/gearhead servo setup and ditching the stock motor but keeping the controller. there will probably be a resolution loss from doing that though.
the couple of printers i've pulled apart had encoders on all the motors.
i was thinking that if you print the first layer in the normal direction, then flipped the next layer so that it was printed going the opposite direction, you would be able to avoid resetting the axis.
why not just send a printer command between each page to roll the paper axis backwards x distance, rather than designing something to override where the printer controls moved it to? you're already going to be building a custom slicer for it and issuing material depositing commands between pages.
it'd be mega awesome if this was done to a network printer.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 6, 2012, at 17:59, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It has to return the axis that originally moved the paper, because it normally kicks the paper out and continues rolling forward even more for future sheets. That has to be moved back to the start.
> I'm not sure what you meant by your second paragraph (third paragraph if you include "awesome." as the first).
> I'm planning on just getting/making a sprocket that fits the exact size of the rod, and somehow adjusting it to fit that so the belt moves the arm across the bed at the right speed. That will require a lot of fine tuning, though. Hacking the firmware would be awesome, but basically impossible. Also, what's that about "swapping the quadrate encoder wheel"? Please tell me more.
> I'll make sure to let it print legal size. Why not have extra? :P Yes, the roller will be behind the printhead, but the way the powder has to be spread at a fast, even speed with the backwards spinning rod, it isn't plausible to do it while it's printing, because it will go way too slowly, and be kicking powder into printing area.
> On another note, anyone know how to make an Arduino control stepper motors?
> Charles Butkus, thanks for the link. However, I have somebody making me some C# code, but it won't be able to do textures. It will export the image with a color gradient, which proves that multiple colors work, but sadly can't do custom colors (printing colored figurines and models is what I want to do). Apparently textures will require rendering and OpenGL or something in that area. Anyone know Python or writing Blender plugins? It would be awesome to select objects in Blender, push ctrl + p, and get an image to send to the printer. Of course the software will all be FOSS, so some community members may be able to write a version that can do textures and have more features.
> I'm really interested in collaborating on this, specifically at the TSSJ during the weekends. (I can't go to the Wednesday meetings anymore because of school and homework). Tell me if you're interested.
> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 5:31 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> awesome.
>> thinking about it, why do you need it setup to return the axis after each layer? what does the printer do naturally between each page?
>> i think it'd be easier to adjust the slicing output to lay the next page down based on where the printer controller placed it.. basically just flipping the next page around/inverting the output to line up with the return pass. would probably need to burn like 1 dot of material in a corner to ensure that the printer 'homes' to the same end positions each pass.
>> how are you going to handle building the axis that used to roll the paper into moving linearly across the same distance as the paper did, with the same "steps per mm" that the old servo is configured in the controlller as? you might be able to swap out the quadrature encoder wheel to fool the controller for a different count. better yet would be to start with a firmware thats been hacked to allow you to customize it.
>> i'd be shooting for an axis thats based on legal sized paper, since it's basically free in the controller.. it'd also be awesome if you could build the powder dropper/leveler to do its job just behind the printhead as it makes a pass, so your next layerchange time is as free as z stepping up, but then you'll have a single direction printer without a lot of extra mechanics.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Oct 6, 2012, at 15:16, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, October 1, 2012 7:51:43 PM UTC-7, Keavon Chambers wrote:
>>>> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
>>>> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
>>>> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts, etc.)
>>>> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone good at code? I'm interested in talking.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bay Area RepRap" group.
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Still not sure about the encoder part, I'd have to show it to you (webcam
chat maybe?). Sadly printing backwards wouldn't work because it has to
spread the powder over, and that has to be done quickly all at once.
I'm also clarifying that there is no custom software to drive the printer
(with the possible expectation of an Arduino to raise the Z and move the
head back to the start each layer, but that will probably be done manually
on this prototype). Otherwise it's just printing standard 2D images on what
it thinks is standard paper being fed in normally. The custom slicer
software is just to make a bunch of png images that are printed separately.
Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF.
Anyways, my dad has stopped helping me until I make an entire CAD design of
the entire finished printer... -.- So I'm working on that now. If anybody
has some freetime and would be willing to help me or do it for me with my
input, that would be awesome. Because I'm going to be using the only
software I know how to use, Blender. But I'd like to use AutoCAD if I knew
how. But Blender will be faster for me to make.
On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> do the motors have encoders on them? lookup quadrature encoders.. its the
> common way of getting feedback for controlled motion. usually an optical
> encoder wheel that breaks a beam, so you get a 1000 pulse per 360 rev
> wheel, the quadrature turns that into 4 signals, so you get 1000*4 for a
> full rev, plus a gearhead multiplier if you have one. i have a set of
> faulhaber 24v servos that have agilent 1000 count encoders and a 143:1
> gearhead. so it's something like 1000*4*143 per outputshaft rev. lots of
> resolution, and that's before coupling to a pulley or any other kind of
> drive system.
> you could probably play with different wheels to fool the controller into
> moving different distances *if* you can find the right wheel/matching
> machine setup. or even possibly finding a good motor/encoder/gearhead servo
> setup and ditching the stock motor but keeping the controller. there will
> probably be a resolution loss from doing that though.
> the couple of printers i've pulled apart had encoders on all the motors.
> i was thinking that if you print the first layer in the normal direction,
> then flipped the next layer so that it was printed going the opposite
> direction, you would be able to avoid resetting the axis.
> why not just send a printer command between each page to roll the paper
> axis backwards x distance, rather than designing something to override
> where the printer controls moved it to? you're already going to be building
> a custom slicer for it and issuing material depositing commands between
> pages.
> it'd be mega awesome if this was done to a network printer.
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 6, 2012, at 17:59, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It has to return the axis that originally moved the paper, because it
> normally kicks the paper out and continues rolling forward even more for
> future sheets. That has to be moved back to the start.
> I'm not sure what you meant by your second paragraph (third paragraph if
> you include "awesome." as the first).
> I'm planning on just getting/making a sprocket that fits the exact size of
> the rod, and somehow adjusting it to fit that so the belt moves the arm
> across the bed at the right speed. That will require a lot of fine tuning,
> though. Hacking the firmware would be awesome, but basically impossible.
> Also, what's that about "swapping the quadrate encoder wheel"? Please tell
> me more.
> I'll make sure to let it print legal size. Why not have extra? :P Yes, the
> roller will be behind the printhead, but the way the powder has to be
> spread at a fast, even speed with the backwards spinning rod, it isn't
> plausible to do it while it's printing, because it will go way too slowly,
> and be kicking powder into printing area.
> On another note, anyone know how to make an Arduino control stepper motors?
> Charles Butkus, thanks for the link. However, I have somebody making me
> some C# code, but it won't be able to do textures. It will export the image
> with a color gradient, which proves that multiple colors work, but sadly
> can't do custom colors (printing colored figurines and models is what I
> want to do). Apparently textures will require rendering and OpenGL or
> something in that area. Anyone know Python or writing Blender plugins? It
> would be awesome to select objects in Blender, push ctrl + p, and get an
> image to send to the printer. Of course the software will all be FOSS, so
> some community members may be able to write a version that can do textures
> and have more features.
> I'm really interested in collaborating on this, specifically at the TSSJ
> during the weekends. (I can't go to the Wednesday meetings anymore because
> of school and homework). Tell me if you're interested.
> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 5:31 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> awesome.
>> thinking about it, why do you need it setup to return the axis after each
>> layer? what does the printer do naturally between each page?
>> i think it'd be easier to adjust the slicing output to lay the next page
>> down based on where the printer controller placed it.. basically just
>> flipping the next page around/inverting the output to line up with the
>> return pass. would probably need to burn like 1 dot of material in a corner
>> to ensure that the printer 'homes' to the same end positions each pass.
>> how are you going to handle building the axis that used to roll the paper
>> into moving linearly across the same distance as the paper did, with the
>> same "steps per mm" that the old servo is configured in the controlller as?
>> you might be able to swap out the quadrature encoder wheel to fool the
>> controller for a different count. better yet would be to start with a
>> firmware thats been hacked to allow you to customize it.
>> i'd be shooting for an axis thats based on legal sized paper, since it's
>> basically free in the controller.. it'd also be awesome if you could build
>> the powder dropper/leveler to do its job just behind the printhead as it
>> makes a pass, so your next layerchange time is as free as z stepping up,
>> but then you'll have a single direction printer without a lot of extra
>> mechanics.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Oct 6, 2012, at 15:16, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, October 1, 2012 7:51:43 PM UTC-7, Keavon Chambers wrote:
>>> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that
>>> can print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own,
>>> but I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a
>>> PDF of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just
>>> sharing ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much
>>> homework for much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
>>> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and
>>> make its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper
>>> feeding motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the
>>> end of the arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the
>>> arm back before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
>>> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version
>>> that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts,
>>> etc.)
>>> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone
>>> good at code? I'm interested in talking.
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"The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF."
have you looked at slicing into postscript? i did some postscript programming many years ago, and it had moveto, which allowed you to position the printhead in x and y coords... which will eliminate the need for a separate return mechanism. pdf may have something very similar. it could also plot lines and curves...
On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that
> are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF."
> have you looked at slicing into postscript? i did some postscript
> programming many years ago, and it had moveto, which allowed you to
> position the printhead in x and y coords... which will eliminate the need
> for a separate return mechanism. pdf may have something very similar. it
> could also plot lines and curves...
> On Oct 6, 2012, at 19:56, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that are
> printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF."
>> have you looked at slicing into postscript? i did some postscript programming many years ago, and it had moveto, which allowed you to position the printhead in x and y coords... which will eliminate the need for a separate return mechanism. pdf may have something very similar. it could also plot lines and curves...
>> On Oct 6, 2012, at 19:56, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bay Area RepRap" group.
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> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> "The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that
>> are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF."
>> have you looked at slicing into postscript? i did some postscript
>> programming many years ago, and it had moveto, which allowed you to
>> position the printhead in x and y coords... which will eliminate the need
>> for a separate return mechanism. pdf may have something very similar. it
>> could also plot lines and curves...
>> On Oct 6, 2012, at 19:56, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that are
>> printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF.
>> --
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they reinvented the control language for fun? most of it probably still applies.. epson has libraries for esc/p-r which is listed as supported for that printer. the -r means raster capabilities.. so it's probably an extension to the language. the raster could be useful for powder printing. i'm looking for a reference for the -r version.
i was writing postscript generators in 2002. i know it'll be possible to get better control over the process than simply printing to it, and having to fabricate around things that you could simply tell the parts that you already have sitting there to do.
you are making me seriously consider picking up old laserjets and attempting a laser sintering machine.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 6, 2012, at 22:21, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF."
>>>> have you looked at slicing into postscript? i did some postscript programming many years ago, and it had moveto, which allowed you to position the printhead in x and y coords... which will eliminate the need for a separate return mechanism. pdf may have something very similar. it could also plot lines and curves...
>>>> On Oct 6, 2012, at 19:56, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bay Area RepRap" group.
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>>> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF."
>>>> have you looked at slicing into postscript? i did some postscript programming many years ago, and it had moveto, which allowed you to position the printhead in x and y coords... which will eliminate the need for a separate return mechanism. pdf may have something very similar. it could also plot lines and curves...
>>>> On Oct 6, 2012, at 19:56, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bay Area RepRap" group.
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How about we work together then? Ill make the hardware work and you help me
with the electronics and software? That would be amazing if we could
natively send the printer commands to move. Let's talk more tomorrow. Also,
do you have a TechShop membership?
On Oct 6, 2012 11:22 PM, "Charles Butkus" <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> they reinvented the control language for fun? most of it probably still
> applies.. epson has libraries for esc/p-r which is listed as supported for
> that printer. the -r means raster capabilities.. so it's probably an
> extension to the language. the raster could be useful for powder printing.
> i'm looking for a reference for the -r version.
> i was writing postscript generators in 2002. i know it'll be possible to
> get better control over the process than simply printing to it, and having
> to fabricate around things that you could simply tell the parts that you
> already have sitting there to do.
> you are making me seriously consider picking up old laserjets and
> attempting a laser sintering machine.
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 6, 2012, at 22:21, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is that link? It's not for the printer I'm using. This printer wasn't
> made the year I was born.
> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> "The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that
>>> are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF."
>>> have you looked at slicing into postscript? i did some postscript
>>> programming many years ago, and it had moveto, which allowed you to
>>> position the printhead in x and y coords... which will eliminate the need
>>> for a separate return mechanism. pdf may have something very similar. it
>>> could also plot lines and curves...
>>> On Oct 6, 2012, at 19:56, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that
>>> are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF.
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Bay Area RepRap" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to bay-area-reprap@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> bay-area-reprap+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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i'm sure the printer will support move and print commands. i see it as something along the lines of slice the layer, convert it into a raster, add layerchange commands, repeat.
catch me tomorrow. negs on techshop membership until my work project is launched.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 6, 2012, at 23:28, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How about we work together then? Ill make the hardware work and you help me with the electronics and software? That would be amazing if we could natively send the printer commands to move. Let's talk more tomorrow. Also, do you have a TechShop membership?
> On Oct 6, 2012 11:22 PM, "Charles Butkus" <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> they reinvented the control language for fun? most of it probably still applies.. epson has libraries for esc/p-r which is listed as supported for that printer. the -r means raster capabilities.. so it's probably an extension to the language. the raster could be useful for powder printing. i'm looking for a reference for the -r version.
>> i was writing postscript generators in 2002. i know it'll be possible to get better control over the process than simply printing to it, and having to fabricate around things that you could simply tell the parts that you already have sitting there to do.
>> you are making me seriously consider picking up old laserjets and attempting a laser sintering machine.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Oct 6, 2012, at 22:21, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> What is that link? It's not for the printer I'm using. This printer wasn't made the year I was born.
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF."
>>>>>> have you looked at slicing into postscript? i did some postscript programming many years ago, and it had moveto, which allowed you to position the printhead in x and y coords... which will eliminate the need for a separate return mechanism. pdf may have something very similar. it could also plot lines and curves...
>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2012, at 19:56, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF.
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Sorry, I didn't read much of that document or even really figure out what
it was. Would you mind briefly explaining how I would send the printer a
move command? Thanks for all your helpful input, this might make things a
ton easier and better. Also, like I said, I have a friend working on the
slicer application, so you won't have to worry about that. We can start
with a sequence if pngs to print.
Another question: would it be possible to send the printer the whole job
all at once INCLUDING the commands to do what it needs to? This way just
pushing print with some file type (.ps?) and send it the whole job, instead
of the control software telling it to print an image, move this, move that,
repeat?
Please pardon my ignorance about all of this stuff. Like I said, I wasn't
even born yet when PostScript was invented and started being used. And I
have no idea about how a lot of this stuff works.
Thanks again.
-Keavon
On Oct 6, 2012 11:38 PM, "Charles Butkus" <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> i'm sure the printer will support move and print commands. i see it as
> something along the lines of slice the layer, convert it into a raster, add
> layerchange commands, repeat.
> catch me tomorrow. negs on techshop membership until my work project is
> launched.
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 6, 2012, at 23:28, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How about we work together then? Ill make the hardware work and you help
> me with the electronics and software? That would be amazing if we could
> natively send the printer commands to move. Let's talk more tomorrow. Also,
> do you have a TechShop membership?
> On Oct 6, 2012 11:22 PM, "Charles Butkus" <airdam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> they reinvented the control language for fun? most of it probably still
>> applies.. epson has libraries for esc/p-r which is listed as supported for
>> that printer. the -r means raster capabilities.. so it's probably an
>> extension to the language. the raster could be useful for powder printing.
>> i'm looking for a reference for the -r version.
>> i was writing postscript generators in 2002. i know it'll be possible to
>> get better control over the process than simply printing to it, and having
>> to fabricate around things that you could simply tell the parts that you
>> already have sitting there to do.
>> you are making me seriously consider picking up old laserjets and
>> attempting a laser sintering machine.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Oct 6, 2012, at 22:21, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What is that link? It's not for the printer I'm using. This printer
>> wasn't made the year I was born.
>> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Charles Butkus <airdam...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> "The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that
>>>> are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF."
>>>> have you looked at slicing into postscript? i did some postscript
>>>> programming many years ago, and it had moveto, which allowed you to
>>>> position the printhead in x and y coords... which will eliminate the need
>>>> for a separate return mechanism. pdf may have something very similar. it
>>>> could also plot lines and curves...
>>>> On Oct 6, 2012, at 19:56, Keavon Chambers <keav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The custom slicer software is just to make a bunch of png images that
>>>> are printed separately. Later it may put them in a multi-page PDF.
>>>> --
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>>>> Groups "Bay Area RepRap" group.
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> you are making me seriously consider picking up old laserjets and
> attempting a laser sintering machine.
It's not impossible. At a rough napkin-sketch level, you'd take the
line driving the laser in an existing laser printer and hook it up to
a higher-powered laser using a relay.
The only question on that end is how fast the relay has to respond
and how much power it needs to control. 10w should do it if tightly
focused, and you can find a fast logic-level-to-10w relay fairly
cheap.
After that you'd need to control the heat of the laser. But that's
a relatively simple matter for "reasonable" values of laser - a
couple of fans to keep air smoothly circulating past the tip would
probably do it.
If I got to design it I'd use a laser with a wide or dispersed
beam, then focus it using lenses (or curved mirrors) to bring
the power to bear at a single spot; that helps control
irregularities relating to melting powder significantly above
the workpiece rather than exactly at the desired point.
That leaves spreading and leveling powdered metal between passes of
the modified print head as the main "new" design issue, and that just
doesn't seem hard.
And from operating a lathe or mill, most machinists have bags and
bags of metal shavings - not powder. Powder you could use as a raw
material for a low-powered laser sintering device would come from
micromachining shops, or else you'd have to re-grind shavings. For
a high-powered laser sintering device, the shavings would probably
do for rapid builds of interiors - but then you have accuracy
issues with surfaces (too much metal melted at a time) that you
need powder and a lower-powered operation (or a tightly focused
subtractive operation) to solve.
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On Monday, October 1, 2012 7:51:43 PM UTC-7, Keavon Chambers wrote:
> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can > print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but > I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF > of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing > ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for > much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make > its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding > motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the > arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back > before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version > that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts, > etc.)
> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone > good at code? I'm interested in talking.
Ah, I just read in the printer I'm using's specs that it says "Control code: ESC/P Raster, EPSON Remote Command". Here's the whole spec sheet http://files.support.epson.com/pdf/pho825/pho825pg.pdf So we just need to find documentation on ESC/P Raster.
On Monday, October 1, 2012 7:51:43 PM UTC-7, Keavon Chambers wrote:
> I'm really interested in creating an inkjet powder-based printer that can > print overhangs and full color. I can probably do most of it on my own, but > I'll need help, especially with the slicer software (it should create a PDF > of a textured model). I'm also interested in working with, or just sharing > ideas with, other people. The problem is that I have too much homework for > much freetime, so I'll try working on it over the weekends.
> My idea so far: Take apart a simple working color inkjet printer and make > its head movement motor move the head across the arm, and the paper feeding > motor move the arm across the powder bed. Attach a sensor at the end of the > arm's travel which uses a different stepper to quickly drag the arm back > before it starts printing the next page (arduino, of course).
> I'd like to make a working prototype first, then refine another version > that can be more easily replicable (more laser cut and RepRapped parts, > etc.)
> Any tips on where to start? Anyone interested in collaboration? Anyone > good at code? I'm interested in talking.
