Mesoamerican Matriarchy on Dwilight
Dominic
concept of mine (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php/User:Ch
%C3%A9nier/Draft1), revived taking all the new info we have into
account, and modified accordingly.
Key points:
1) Matriarchy: Feudalism is way more than christian europe. So let's
break away from the mold a little, why not a culture which values
women over men? This would, of course, be deeply tied to the following
point:
2) Religion: A religion inspired off the various mesoamerican
traditions (Aztec/Inca/Maya/Toltec/etc.), which rules and unites the
nobles of a certain region, which may span over multiple realms (that
would be the goal, to have many realms share it). Though they don't
require theocracies, religion is omnipresent, and guides politics and
common-day life (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php/
The_Blood_Cult). Human sacrifices are practiced to please the gods,
and so we come to the next point:
3) Flower Wars: Gang-bangs and wars of annihilation are as boring as
eternal peace, and so this is the most logical, not to mention fun,
alternative. Realms agree to declare war on eachother for a set
ammount of time, and establish rules. For example, only a few regions
are allowed to be attacked, and no TOs will be run. What is the
inscentive? For rulers, it's obvious, it's political stability. If the
nobles are off warring and having glory, then they are pleased and
aren't thinking of change. For the nobles, constant h/p gains, and the
ability to loot as they want the selected regions. These war-games are
a kind of competition, whith deep religious significance, that also
allows the warriors to capture their sacrifices-to-be.
Now, the current idea is to have people start (LJ will resume
preaching The Blood Cult on Beluaterra, and will do the same on
Dwilight) in Springdale. Once enough strength is gathered, the forces
travel to do a CTO of Libidizedd. There, the religion is founded, the
hiearchy and politics established... overall, the whole structure of
the realms to be are determined. This small island will be The Blood
Cult's Vatican, it will be the heart of the civilization. Once it is
strong enough, it expands to form colonies around it that will share
it's faith. The goal is to have as many colonies as possible (really
doesn't matter if they are tiny) so that, in peace time, they may have
flower wars with eachother so as to better themselves, and entertain
the warriors while no threat is present. If an outside force threatens
one of the civilization's realms, they band together to protect
eachother, and so the many small realms can resist bigger ones, and
are not threatened with destruction themselves.
We discussed much more, from culture to strategies, but those were the
main lines. This is basicly shameless advertisement for those who want
to create something truly different, that should be fun for everyone
(that's perhaps the main goal I had in mind when designing it all).
So, if you have ideas, or want to join in, just say so! :P
FiddleSticks
Dominic
female nobles, it's only normal for a society to adjust it's culture
to reflect the social imbalance. As such, it would not be uncommon for
women to marry more than one man. Their rarity only gives the women
more leverage in the scheme of things.
5) Polytheism: The whole civilization (the craddle realm and the
colonies) worships more than one diety, even though some of them
remain rather universal. This has the effect of creating regional
dieties, where some of the realms focus on new patron spirits. These
would obviously lead to cultural variety, with new myths and values
being held across the empire. Besides, pretty much anything passes if
it is done "to please the gods".
6) Human Sacrifices: Yes, of course. This is a tool to stimulate RP,
not to mention make politics with foreign realms rather interesting.
Hangings and lootings can be seen as tools to collect the victims.
Foreign adventurers are free game. A noble that offers his body to the
gods is the greatest gift that can be done to the gods, as long it the
proper ceremony accompanies it, most likely a religious recreation of
the myth of creation or something of the like.
7) Core concepts = Originality, Depth, Fun:
Originality because, well, it's rewarding, and it adds spice to the
whole continent when something is different. Depth so that those who
are active and/or gain power can really immerse themselves in it. Fun
so that the average player will enjoy himself and never get bored. The
tree together also bring stability, which should bring a long life to
the realms, and therefore prolonge the positive experience for
everyone (not as fun for most players when they have to begin from
scratch because their realm was reduced to nothing).
Dominic
goddesses. At first, they may seem odd in a matriarchal society,
however on closer examination it just reflects the temporal world:
While there are more males than females, it is the females who truly
hold the power and most important positions.
Dominic
administration of the people would tend more of the side of women.
Rulers and judges would therefore tend to be ladies, and since they
are the symbol of fertility, they would take care of any food-
producing regions. On the other hand, males would tend to manage the
ressources and wage warfare, as such their would usually occupy the
banker and general role, as well as most marshals. They would also
maintain the productive regions, such as cities, mountains, and some
forts. While males may hold more *power*, females are more important
anyways, due to their religious importance.
Timothy Collett
> 4) Polygamy: With the number of male nobles far greater than that of
> female nobles, it's only normal for a society to adjust it's culture
> to reflect the social imbalance. As such, it would not be uncommon for
> women to marry more than one man. Their rarity only gives the women
> more leverage in the scheme of things.
Just a pedantic note: this is generally called "polyandry". :-)
And hey, on this list, it's fine to post random pedantic notes :-D
Timothy Collett
--
"Our thoughts form the universe. They always matter."
~ G'Kar
Timothy Collett
>
> I'm in and so is a friend of mine.
>
> On Nov 1, 9:42 pm, Dominic <dham0...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well we talked about the plans like crazy on IRC tonight, an old...
Do please try to avoid top-posting, though.
I'll write up a page with list rules soon that will include that.
Timothy Collett
--
"Hitotsu dake onegai ga arimasu! Inakunatte shimatta hitotachi no
koto. Tokidoki de ii kara... omoidashite kudasai..."
~ Yuna ~ Final Fantasy X ~
Dominic
>
> And hey, on this list, it's fine to post random pedantic notes :-D
>
> Timothy Collett
Right, I couldn't remember the term... yet I just saw that in my
anthropology classes like last week? What can I say, she's not my best
teacher... Anyways...
10) Decentralisation: Okay, Plato's still fresh in my mind, but hey,
we are trying to make a "perfect" realm here, no? So it's back to the
idea of city-states. The more realms, the more council positions there
are to hand out. The smaller the realms, the more social mobility
usually. And for practicality, the more smaller realms you have
(instead of one large one), the more flower war opportunities! Like
the greeks, all the small realms would unite under a common threat,
but would otherwise be free to follow many varying ways of life under
the same pantheon, though with their own protector diety.
Gloria Santos
matriarchy in real life?
Gloria Santos
>
> 2) Religion: A religion inspired off the various mesoamerican
> traditions (Aztec/Inca/Maya/Toltec/etc.), which rules and unites the
> nobles of a certain region, which may span over multiple realms (that
> would be the goal, to have many realms share it). Though they don't
> require theocracies, religion is omnipresent, and guides politics and
> common-day life (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php/
> The_Blood_Cult). Human sacrifices are practiced to please the gods,
> and so we come to the next point:
>
> 3) Flower Wars: Gang-bangs and wars of annihilation are as boring as
> eternal peace, and so this is the most logical, not to mention fun,
> alternative. Realms agree to declare war on eachother for a set
> ammount of time, and establish rules. For example, only a few regions
> are allowed to be attacked, and no TOs will be run. What is the
> inscentive? For rulers, it's obvious, it's political stability. If the
> nobles are off warring and having glory, then they are pleased and
> aren't thinking of change. For the nobles, constant h/p gains, and the
> ability to loot as they want the selected regions. These war-games are
> a kind of competition, whith deep religious significance, that also
> allows the warriors to capture their sacrifices-to-be.
>
I do not know about the Blood Cult. But the way religion and war
worked in Mesoamerica is like this: You go to war not to gain
regions, nor to win. You go to war to get prisoners. And you get
prisoners to sacrifice them, and please the gods. Of course, dying
in battle also pleased the gods, and you get sent to a special level
in the afterworld.
Dominic
ruler, infact. And indeed, the wargames have deep religious
connotation, which I've mentionned though I haven't explained.
Basicly, when you go looting, "burn, rape, kill", you are getting
prisonners to sacrifice. When you go hunting retreated troops, you go
to capture them. This is where RP dictates the meaning of game
mechanics (without modifying it's content, of course).
The Blood Cult is not a replica of anything that existed, we don't
want any RL religions anyways, but it takes its roots in all the
various mesoamerican religious traditions, to make something original
yet familiar, extravagent yet realist.
Gloria Santos
Well, you may not need to create gods and godesses for different things.
The aztec dieties came in pairs, with its male and female sides. (I
still don't quite grasp if each of the gendered sides were meant as
different entities, or if it was one same god.)
Dominic
> The aztec dieties came in pairs, with its male and female sides. (I
> still don't quite grasp if each of the gendered sides were meant as
> different entities, or if it was one same god.)
You'll have to tell me more about this, and I'll have to refresh my
memories of the religious beliefs.
Reilwin
Out-of-Character from Lyse (4 hours, 35 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (132 recipients)
That's why we word with the inalienable rights, not against them. The
rights, after all, just like the realm, have for purpouse to promote
fun.
The doubts I have are on point 9. That requires characters to follow
social norms, of a realm unlike any others, instead of going with the
old prejudices of time in realm/honour-prestige/whatnot. It also
leaves room for misinterpretation, and some unpleasent debate.
However, it's purpouse it to establish a clearer line of aspirations.
When you have less options, you are more likely to know what you want,
and when there are less people who can get it, you are most likely to
get it quicker. At the very least, it's more fun to know that there's
only one person in your way before getting a title than knowing there
are 10 who've been in the realm a day longer. The goal is to encourage
social mobility through specializations (Plato's concept of the
classes, with the sex being a determining factor at birth).
Pitch in your opinions, I'm not saying what I done is perfect, this is
an attempt to improve it.
Dominic
Dominic
favour female characters, through concrete in-game methods (so that
this social reality doesn't get ignored and fade away). However,
social norms that can be broken on a whim by a few and make the social
hiearchy crumble.
Therefore, if any titles should be reserved for a gender, it should be
some that are appointed. However, the system must be versatile, to
suit many people's desires. Though the capital realm might be a
theocracy, the others must be able to evolve as they see fit, into
whatever government they desire. After all, some people preffer
monarchies, other republics, etc. The problem with this is that where
some places certain positions are appointed, elsewhere they are
elected. Therefore, the only things that are universally appointed are
knights, marshals, religious rank. Regions are elected at some places,
and council positions vary as well.
However, there's an idea that just came to my mind. While it's hard to
control those game-created entities, all those message group-based
institutions are quite easy to control. As such, we could hold a group
of advisors that would be dominated by a sex, while any character has
a chance to power.
Also, in the name of diversity as well, a colony being patriarchal
would only add to the variety.
Vistuvis
The Roleplaying opportunity would be fairly good. I would expect LOTS
of roleplaying in this realm especially when there would be
sacrifices.
I will have some ideas later.
Dominic
Springdale to Morek, however I'm not sure anymore. Morek will be
closer, and might be more practical.
The best idea seems to be to group up with another group that wants to
set up on the other side of the continent, though then again we could
have very good reasons to want to block off access to the west from
"foreigners", as to establish greater control there, more colonies.
So this aspect is totally up to discussion, it's a matter of strategy,
and I know there are quite a few people out there better at it than I.
Dominic
mentionned before, is to have as many small realms as possible, each
going on their own path while remaining true to the religion (which is
polytheist and very open anyways). The relation between the colonies
and the island realm is truly like the relation between the Vatican
and catholic europe during the era of the crusades. While it's
imposing on social norms, and manages to unite them on great ocasions
somewhat, the politics during normal time remain within the hands of
the rulers.
The realms are small and many, and that's intentionnal. Once created,
they are imposed a general fundation to build upon, but for most
aspects the colonists are free to expand and adapt the realm as they
see fit, and to even "discover" their own patron diety. There should
(see must) even have a patriarchal colony, so that the males of the
empire can gravitates towards there if they become power-hungry or
disruptive. That way, the empire can house a wide diversity, and the
empire's subjects can all be satisfied.
However, to keep them united, and break the isolation small realms
bring, they must be given plenty of opportunities to interact. Sure,
discussing with your neighbour during wargames is a good thing, but
it's not enough. As such, events must be held to bring them together.
The first are pilgrimages. Four major religious festivities per year,
at the four soltices (RL, to keep it simple). Perfect opportunity for
massive RPs, bring everyone at one place, organise deals, take care of
political ennemies, promoting the faith in RP and not just some random
number on region statistics, etc. The second are tournaments,
prefferably monthly, which would be held in the core realm. Every
month, everyone would be able to amass in a single spot, quickly and
safely, to boast about their skills, forge new relations, and run a
chance at the prize. Once per month also means that anyone that goes
to them all, and says one message per tournament, can be reached by
anyone else who attended them, so it makes nobles of the empire much
easier to contact than would otherwise be normally possible. This
tournament would be based on swordfighting (to motivate the nobles to
improve the skill, for the better of the realms), and would be RPed
with deep religious signification. They should even be RPed as
mesoamerical ballgames, which relies on the same abilities and
strenghts as swordfighting could. Sacrifices could also be held.
However, this is also an opportunity to open the bloc on the outside
world, to which it would most likely tend to be closed. It would give
an opportunity for the empire's culture to shine infront of the
foreigners, who, stunned, gaze upon the grand temples. This would be
alot like the olympics during the cold war. Regular tournaments could
also have the effect of granting the empire a monopoly over them, as
other realms attempting to hold such tournaments would end up having
no troop leaders left with the time and gold to afford it, which means
that the core realm can almost make a buisness out of it, to finance
greater temples in distant places rapidly and whatnot.. In addition to
that, it also allows the conversion of foreigners, as the religion
could also spread into foreign realms, obviously.
Dominic
dominated by males and an interior affairs-council by females as the
only aspect, though there was much left to discuss about this.
V2Blast
Dominic
> This all sounds quite interesting... Not sure if I'm in yet.
As you know, we hold the conversation on IRC between 19:00-00:00 EST
usually, feel free to comment and add your ideas. Here also works,
though it's harder to elaborate.
Dominic
channel. With all of the realms sharing the same religion, it can be
used to bring them all together, out of their isolation, into a truly
united community.
Esorp
Dominic, he's well, certified insane. :p That and he has claimed about
1/3 of Dwilight..
Reilwin
religion
It's currently gravitating between
1) Ezotl Teocalli (Human Blood Temple, or Temple of Human Blood)
2) Blood Teocalli (most preferred)
and simply
3) Teocalli (Temple)
I can't remember exactly which of the mesoamerican languages this was
taken from, but I believe it's from Aztec.
V2Blast
mixing English and Aztec; it just doesn't flow well. And Teocalli's
just a bit lacking. :P
Dominic
consult with a few people who know nothing about the aztecs and see
what the name inspires in them.
Reilwin
work. Communications would be made easier via religion channels, but a
clear line of military command would need to be implemented--otherwise
there could be unnecessary friction. Not to mention that the more
people are involved, the greater the chances there'll be a one who'll
make a stupid mistake.
Dominic
Gloria Santos
I'll admit it has merit... We'll have to think more about it... I'll
consult with a few people who know nothing about the aztecs and see
what the name inspires in them.
Well, I do know a bit about the aztecs, and Ezotl Teocalli just does not sound as shocking as it should.
Dominic
>
>
>
> > I'll admit it has merit... We'll have to think more about it... I'll
> > consult with a few people who know nothing about the aztecs and see
> > what the name inspires in them.
>
> Well, I do know a bit about the aztecs, and Ezotl Teocalli just does not
> sound as shocking as it should.
religion itself, as well as the civilization/empire, and the realms
(could use a prefix/suffix system)?
Gloria Santos
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
Well, I don't know what kind of effect you want. After all, what we now consider "supernatural" was, for the ancient mexicans, a natural part of their life. So, Ezotl Teocalli does not have the same effect as Blood Cult, but perhaps that's closer to what you want.
Dominic
plus. Relating to blood, to give a clear idea of what the founding
principles are (the goal being to avoid "humanist" reforms, got quite
a prejudice against those)...
So... Exotic, clear, imposing, mysterious, organised, and civilized
are all aspects the name could summon, though I doubt any name could
contain all those elements at once.
Esorp
Blood cult sounds so.. evil and wanting to kill everyone. Though at
first ezotl teocalli isn't very clear. Which is why I like blood
teocalli, though that isn't so exotic.
An interesting idea which I shamelessly took from the Order of the
Golden Feather (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php/Golden_Feather)
is the use of necklaces. An item that members of the religion would
wear or hold at all times, with several different grades of the item
for lower and higher members. Doesn't have to be a necklace of course,
I was thinking maybe for the basic item it could be a blood stone?
Dominic
wealth, luxury, abundance, think of all the gold in the aztec city of
Tenochtitlan. Symbols, religious items, and general dresscode could be
discussed further.
Dominic
gods and a creation myth: http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php/The_Blood_Cult