Many of you received an email from the Google Base team regarding some new attribute requirements earlier today. For certain categories of products (consumer electronics, media, and books), we're asking providers to send us the MPN, UPC, or ISBN information for their items.
Our support specialist Chris Azalde posted earlier today with some clarifications and suggestions regarding our new attribute requirements. You may also find it helpful to take a look at our FAQ:
If you still have questions after reading the post, please include your questions in this thread. Both Chris and I will be monitoring the discussion and providing feedback for some common questions that arise.
I am an artist and selling my own original artwork (primarily paintings). As such, there is no UPC. If a UPC is required, aren't you automatically excluding all original art and artisan crafts? That would make google base a sad place indeed if only mass-produced items can be listed on it.
im assuming that for products that dont have upc or mpn values, how is this going to work? i mean if im searching for some art work made by a random individual, what would the upc or mpn do?
for now, im thinking that google just wont use this info for those items. i mean, how can you categorize items using this info when it doesnt exist!
> I am an artist and selling my own original artwork (primarily > paintings). As such, there is no UPC. If a UPC is required, aren't > you automatically excluding all original art and artisan crafts? > That would make google base a sad place indeed if only mass-produced > items can be listed on it.
Please know that these new required attributes are not intended to exclude items from Google Base; but instead, these attributes are intended to allow us to categorize items in popular and standardized product types in order to return more relevant results to our users. If these attributes are not applicable to your items, you may leave these attributes blank or omit them from your file. Omitting these unique identifiers for products such as original art and artisan crafts will not affect these items' placement or inclusion in our search results. Although there is no need to include attributes in your bulk upload that are completely irrelevant to your items, we do highly recommend including as much information as possible to help us match users' queries to your items.
> I am an artist and selling my own original artwork (primarily > paintings). As such, there is no UPC. If a UPC is required, aren't > you automatically excluding all original art and artisan crafts? > That would make google base a sad place indeed if only mass-produced > items can be listed on it.
Actually, it's not just the email with verbiage pointing to these attributes as being perceived as required. It may not be, but verbiage stating, "...can affect the relevance of your items in our search results.", found at http://base.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=69820&topic=11909, might as well say that they are.
There are a ton of items out there that don't have the luxury (or need) for an UPC or EAN. So in reality, at some point "relevant results" becomes synonymous to "big box" merchants - who can afford to obtain such from the UCC (now GS1), or those that only resell/ retail such products that deserve a UPC.
Not sure what that means to "relevancy" at that stage - re: you either find an item known as 123456789012 which is sold across 100s of merchants, likely also in more "suitable" venues like some online store (as opposed to Google Base), since it's likely to be there too (it has a UPC, so its certainly not an "original" and is distributed in some volume), or this one of a kind gem.
Hi Chris, I don't know that techie types realize this but the ISBN number did not come into general use til after 1971. There were a awful lot of books printed BEFORE that. They remain readable, desirable, marketable, collectable and profitable. Excluding books from any listing based on an ISBN is to follow ebay's wrong-headed example with Half.com where sales have plummetted since they "killed" it.
I've had amazing sales with the googlebase store connector and my ebay store. I feel like implementation of this requirement is a distinct slap in the face to sellers, on and off-ebay, who sell vintage items. Please reconsider. NOT everyone wants another 50 cent "BEST SELLER" to read. The money in books, is in older, rarer items. NON-ISBN items actually.
If you're doing this to give your big box merchants an advantage, remember, it only works if the rest of us go shop at their stores via Googlebase. I won't be doing that now. Not gonna support the creeps that are trying to drive me and other small sellers out of business. Thanks - it was fun while it lasted.
> Please know that these new required attributes are not intended to > exclude items from Google Base; but instead, these attributes are > intended to allow us to categorize items in popular and standardized > product types in order to return more relevant results to our users. > If these attributes are not applicable to your items, you may leave > these attributes blank or omit them from your file. Omitting these > unique identifiers for products such as original art and artisan > crafts will not affect these items' placement or inclusion in our > search results. Although there is no need to include attributes in > your bulk upload that are completely irrelevant to your items, we do > highly recommend including as much information as possible to help us > match users' queries to your items.
Thanks for your comments so far. One thing to remember, we understand that many products don't have UPC/MPN/ISBN codes universally available. For example, many books predate the ISBN system. As this is the case, no merchants will be able to provide this information for those particular items. In the end, these items will see no significant effect on their placement in our search results. In fact, we're not removing or disapproving any items missing these unique identifiers.
We do realize that these requirements are a big change, but we hope that it will lead to better visibility for all of our providers - not only our bigger merchants.
> Hi Chris, > I don't know that techie types realize this but the ISBN number did > not come into general use til after 1971. There were a awful lot of > books printed BEFORE that. They remain readable, desirable, > marketable, collectable and profitable. Excluding books from any > listing based on an ISBN is to follow ebay's wrong-headed example with > Half.com where sales have plummetted since they "killed" it.
> I've had amazing sales with the googlebase store connector and my ebay > store. I feel like implementation of this requirement is a distinct > slap in the face to sellers, on and off-ebay, who sell vintage items. > Please reconsider. NOT everyone wants another 50 cent "BEST SELLER" to > read. The money in books, is in older, rarer items. NON-ISBN items > actually.
> If you're doing this to give your big box merchants an advantage, > remember, it only works if the rest of us go shop at their stores via > Googlebase. I won't be doing that now. Not gonna support the creeps > that are trying to drive me and other small sellers out of business. > Thanks - it was fun while it lasted.
> On Jun 18, 7:49 pm, Chris A. wrote:
> > Please know that these new required attributes are not intended to > > exclude items from Google Base; but instead, these attributes are > > intended to allow us to categorize items in popular and standardized > > product types in order to return more relevant results to our users. > > If these attributes are not applicable to your items, you may leave > > these attributes blank or omit them from your file. Omitting these > > unique identifiers for products such as original art and artisan > > crafts will not affect these items' placement or inclusion in our > > search results. Although there is no need to include attributes in > > your bulk upload that are completely irrelevant to your items, we do > > highly recommend including as much information as possible to help us > > match users' queries to your items.
Carmen here. We didn't even KNOW we could put the store connector together with an eBay store. Our fault. We sell over in quilting so we're not a competitor of your's. We are carmen7887. Would you be willing to point us in the direction on the Google groups or other so that we could do the same? Don't want to take you away from your time needed to run an eBay store - but if you have time we'd sure appreciate it. eBay store sales for us are way down and we're trying all channels that make sense. Hope Google didn't mess things up for you. This requirement (lack of a UPC in our case) is why we can't go on Amazon. Their requirement, I believe is carved in stone.
Best Wishes, Carmen and John (carmen7887 - Crate and Pallet)
> Hi Chris, > I don't know that techie types realize this but the ISBN number did > not come into general use til after 1971. There were a awful lot of > books printed BEFORE that. They remain readable, desirable, > marketable, collectable and profitable. Excluding books from any > listing based on an ISBN is to follow ebay's wrong-headed example with > Half.com where sales have plummetted since they "killed" it.
> I've had amazing sales with the googlebase store connector and my ebay > store. I feel like implementation of this requirement is a distinct > slap in the face to sellers, on and off-ebay, who sell vintage items. > Please reconsider. NOT everyone wants another 50 cent "BEST SELLER" to > read. The money in books, is in older, rarer items. NON-ISBN items > actually.
> If you're doing this to give your big box merchants an advantage, > remember, it only works if the rest of us go shop at their stores via > Googlebase. I won't be doing that now. Not gonna support the creeps > that are trying to drive me and other small sellers out of business. > Thanks - it was fun while it lasted.
> On Jun 18, 7:49 pm, Chris A. wrote:
> > Please know that these new required attributes are not intended to > > exclude items from Google Base; but instead, these attributes are > > intended to allow us to categorize items in popular and standardized > > product types in order to return more relevant results to our users. > > If these attributes are not applicable to your items, you may leave > > these attributes blank or omit them from your file. Omitting these > > unique identifiers for products such as original art and artisan > > crafts will not affect these items' placement or inclusion in our > > search results. Although there is no need to include attributes in > > your bulk upload that are completely irrelevant to your items, we do > > highly recommend including as much information as possible to help us > > match users' queries to your items.
> > Chris > > The Google Base Team- Hide quoted text -
Carmen here. We didn't even KNOW we could put the store connector together with an eBay store. Our fault. We sell over in quilting so we're not a competitor of your's. We are carmen7887. Would you be willing to point us in the direction on the Google groups or other so that we could do the same? Don't want to take you away from your time needed to run an eBay store - but if you have time we'd sure appreciate it. eBay store sales for us are way down and we're trying all channels that make sense. Hope Google didn't mess things up for you. This requirement (lack of a UPC in our case) is why we can't go on Amazon. Their requirement, I believe is carved in stone.
Best Wishes, Carmen and John (carmen7887 - Crate and Pallet)
> Hi Chris, > I don't know that techie types realize this but the ISBN number did > not come into general use til after 1971. There were a awful lot of > books printed BEFORE that. They remain readable, desirable, > marketable, collectable and profitable. Excluding books from any > listing based on an ISBN is to follow ebay's wrong-headed example with > Half.com where sales have plummetted since they "killed" it.
> I've had amazing sales with the googlebase store connector and my ebay > store. I feel like implementation of this requirement is a distinct > slap in the face to sellers, on and off-ebay, who sell vintage items. > Please reconsider. NOT everyone wants another 50 cent "BEST SELLER" to > read. The money in books, is in older, rarer items. NON-ISBN items > actually.
> If you're doing this to give your big box merchants an advantage, > remember, it only works if the rest of us go shop at their stores via > Googlebase. I won't be doing that now. Not gonna support the creeps > that are trying to drive me and other small sellers out of business. > Thanks - it was fun while it lasted.
> On Jun 18, 7:49 pm, Chris A. wrote:
> > Please know that these new required attributes are not intended to > > exclude items from Google Base; but instead, these attributes are > > intended to allow us to categorize items in popular and standardized > > product types in order to return more relevant results to our users. > > If these attributes are not applicable to your items, you may leave > > these attributes blank or omit them from your file. Omitting these > > unique identifiers for products such as original art and artisan > > crafts will not affect these items' placement or inclusion in our > > search results. Although there is no need to include attributes in > > your bulk upload that are completely irrelevant to your items, we do > > highly recommend including as much information as possible to help us > > match users' queries to your items.
> > Chris > > The Google Base Team- Hide quoted text -
I Have Artificial Jewelry Web site. And i have i uploded products in bulk in google base around 10 days ago.but when i am searching it i found none of my products is listed in google products. Please help me.
> im assuming that for products that dont have upc or mpn values, how is > this going to work? i mean if im searching for some art work made by a > random individual, what would the upc or mpn do?
> for now, im thinking that google just wont use this info for those > items. i mean, how can you categorize items using this info when it > doesnt exist!
> On Jun 18, 2:56 pm, breezyzen wrote:
> > I am an artist and selling my own original artwork (primarily > > paintings). As such, there is no UPC. If a UPC is required, aren't > > you automatically excluding all original art and artisan crafts? > > That would make google base a sad place indeed if only mass-produced > > items can be listed on it.
95 % of the product we sell is OEM surplus so it was never issued a UPC and we use the MPN as our partnumber. Based on this what are we supposed to do for these 2 fields? Also, if we do not submit these fields how will this effect our uploads?
alapeter, why dont you just add the "MPN" to your feed. if your items dont have a upc, looks like nothing will happen. read the google base guy's post, says they wont be removing or disapproving items.
treasure, whats your website? try searching for your domain name. also, how'd you create these items?
> 95 % of the product we sell is OEM surplus so it was never issued a > UPC and we use the MPN as our partnumber. Based on this what are we > supposed to do for these 2 fields? Also, if we do not submit these > fields how will this effect our uploads?
Froogle used to be a way for smaller and medium size businesses to compete with larger online stores. As more and more requirements are added it is becoming very difficult to comply.
> Please know that these new required attributes are not intended to > exclude items from Google Base; but instead, these attributes are > intended to allow us to categorize items in popular and standardized > product types in order to return more relevant results to our users. > If these attributes are not applicable to your items, you may leave > these attributes blank or omit them from your file. Omitting these > unique identifiers for products such as original art and artisan > crafts will not affect these items' placement or inclusion in our > search results. Although there is no need to include attributes in > your bulk upload that are completely irrelevant to your items, we do > highly recommend including as much information as possible to help us > match users' queries to your items.
> Chris > The Google Base Team
> On Jun 18, 2:56 pm, breezyzen wrote:
> > I am an artist and selling my own original artwork (primarily > > paintings). As such, there is no UPC. If a UPC is required, aren't > > you automatically excluding all original art and artisan crafts? > > That would make google base a sad place indeed if only mass-produced > > items can be listed on it.
id just leave them out of your file if your products dont have upc or mpn codes. i wrote in to support because i have the same issues for my items, but was told to leave the attributes out of my file.
We do have UPC codes for all of our products although we know that some of them may not be valid due to receiving dept scanning/entering wrong code on shipment, etc. What effects/ramifications will occur by having the wrong UPC code entered for a particular set of products that are included in our bulk upload?
> Thanks for your comments so far. One thing to remember, we understand > that many products don't have UPC/MPN/ISBN codes universally > available. For example, many books predate the ISBN system. As this is > the case, no merchants will be able to provide this information for > those particular items. In the end, these items will see no > significant effect on their placement in our search results. In fact, > we're not removing or disapproving any items missing these unique > identifiers.
> We do realize that these requirements are a big change, but we hope > that it will lead to better visibility for all of our providers - not > only our bigger merchants.
> Thanks, > The Google Base Guy
> On Jun 19, 8:38 am, Beth wrote:
> > Hi Chris, > > I don't know that techie types realize this but the ISBN number did > > not come into general use til after 1971. There were a awful lot of > > books printed BEFORE that. They remain readable, desirable, > > marketable, collectable and profitable. Excluding books from any > > listing based on an ISBN is to follow ebay's wrong-headed example with > > Half.com where sales have plummetted since they "killed" it.
> > I've had amazing sales with the googlebase store connector and my ebay > > store. I feel like implementation of this requirement is a distinct > > slap in the face to sellers, on and off-ebay, who sell vintage items. > > Please reconsider. NOT everyone wants another 50 cent "BEST SELLER" to > > read. The money in books, is in older, rarer items. NON-ISBN items > > actually.
> > If you're doing this to give your big box merchants an advantage, > > remember, it only works if the rest of us go shop at their stores via > > Googlebase. I won't be doing that now. Not gonna support the creeps > > that are trying to drive me and other small sellers out of business. > > Thanks - it was fun while it lasted.
> > On Jun 18, 7:49 pm, Chris A. wrote:
> > > Please know that these new required attributes are not intended to > > > exclude items from Google Base; but instead, these attributes are > > > intended to allow us to categorize items in popular and standardized > > > product types in order to return more relevant results to our users. > > > If these attributes are not applicable to your items, you may leave > > > these attributes blank or omit them from your file. Omitting these > > > unique identifiers for products such as original art and artisan > > > crafts will not affect these items' placement or inclusion in our > > > search results. Although there is no need to include attributes in > > > your bulk upload that are completely irrelevant to your items, we do > > > highly recommend including as much information as possible to help us > > > match users' queries to your items.
> Please know that these new required attributes are not intended to > exclude items from Google Base; but instead, these attributes are > intended to allow us to categorize items in popular and standardized > product types in order to return more relevant results to our users. > If these attributes are not applicable to your items, you may leave > these attributes blank or omit them from your file. Omitting these > unique identifiers for products such as original art and artisan > crafts will not affect these items' placement or inclusion in our > search results. Although there is no need to include attributes in > your bulk upload that are completely irrelevant to your items, we do > highly recommend including as much information as possible to help us > match users' queries to your items.
> Chris > The Google Base Team
> On Jun 18, 2:56 pm, breezyzen wrote:
> > I am an artist and selling my own original artwork (primarily > > paintings). As such, there is no UPC. If a UPC is required, aren't > > you automatically excluding all original art and artisan crafts? > > That would make google base a sad place indeed if only mass-produced > > items can be listed on it.
I have noticed a significant drop in traffic from our GoogleBase/GPS listings in recent weeks. It is likely that our relevance has slipped a bit, because I have noticed our ranking for some popular queries slipping onto the 2nd page of results. I suspect that one of the factors contributing to this decline is the Base algorithm's switch to incorporate UPC and MPN more heavily in determining relevance. I assume the algorithm changes didn't take effect immediately (6.18.07)... When exactly was the algorithm modified? I am submitting my apparel items at the 'style' level, instead of the parent SKU level. Most retailers in our space seem to be submitting at the parent level. I include the MPN for a specific style (size/ color variant of a jacket), where as others are submitting a generic MPN for the Parent product (no size/color variants), e.g. I would submit an MPN of E142-Rod-L, whereas someone else might only submit the E142 for the MPN for a product with the same 'Title'. How is GoogleBase determining which MPN is the "correct" MPN to grade relevance from? Am I getting penalized for submitting data which is too specific? Hope the question makes sense. I would love to get this straightened out soon.
> I think the question everyone is wondering about, is whether omission > of these attributes will negatively affect the ranking of an item.
> If someone searches for "Nirvana", will a CD listing with ISBN be > ranked higher than a T-shirt without it?
> I think everyone here is hoping to hear the answer to this question.
> Alex
> On Jun 18, 7:49 pm, Chris A. wrote:
> > Hi breezyzen-
> > Please know that these new required attributes are not intended to > > exclude items from Google Base; but instead, these attributes are > > intended to allow us to categorize items in popular and standardized > > product types in order to return more relevant results to our users. > > If these attributes are not applicable to your items, you may leave > > these attributes blank or omit them from your file. Omitting these > > unique identifiers for products such as original art and artisan > > crafts will not affect these items' placement or inclusion in our > > search results. Although there is no need to include attributes in > > your bulk upload that are completely irrelevant to your items, we do > > highly recommend including as much information as possible to help us > > match users' queries to your items.
> > Chris > > The Google Base Team
> > On Jun 18, 2:56 pm, breezyzen wrote:
> > > I am an artist and selling my own original artwork (primarily > > > paintings). As such, there is no UPC. If a UPC is required, aren't > > > you automatically excluding all original art and artisan crafts? > > > That would make google base a sad place indeed if only mass-produced > > > items can be listed on it.
> I have noticed a significant drop in traffic from our GoogleBase/GPS > listings in recent weeks. It is likely that our relevance has slipped > a bit, because I have noticed our ranking for some popular queries > slipping onto the 2nd page of results. I suspect that one of the > factors contributing to this decline is the Base algorithm's switch to > incorporateUPCand MPN more heavily in determining relevance. I > assume the algorithm changes didn't take effect immediately > (6.18.07)... When exactly was the algorithm modified? > I am submitting my apparel items at the 'style' level, instead of the > parent SKU level. Most retailers in our space seem to be submitting > at the parent level. I include the MPN for a specific style (size/ > color variant of a jacket), where as others are submitting a generic > MPN for the Parent product (no size/color variants), e.g. I would > submit an MPN of E142-Rod-L, whereas someone else might only submit > the E142 for the MPN for a product with the same 'Title'. How is > GoogleBase determining which MPN is the "correct" MPN to grade > relevance from? Am I getting penalized for submitting data which is > too specific? Hope the question makes sense. I would love to get this > straightened out soon.
> On Jul 25, 2:47 pm, Alex E wrote:
> > I think the question everyone is wondering about, is whether omission > > of these attributes will negatively affect the ranking of an item.
> > If someone searches for "Nirvana", will a CD listing with ISBN be > > ranked higher than a T-shirt without it?
> > I think everyone here is hoping to hear the answer to this question.
> > Alex
> > On Jun 18, 7:49 pm, Chris A. wrote:
> > > Hi breezyzen-
> > > Please know that these new required attributes are not intended to > > > exclude items from Google Base; but instead, these attributes are > > > intended to allow us to categorize items in popular and standardized > > > product types in order to return more relevant results to our users. > > > If these attributes are not applicable to your items, you may leave > > > these attributes blank or omit them from your file. Omitting these > > > unique identifiers for products such as original art and artisan > > > crafts will not affect these items' placement or inclusion in our > > > search results. Although there is no need to include attributes in > > > your bulk upload that are completely irrelevant to your items, we do > > > highly recommend including as much information as possible to help us > > > match users' queries to your items.
> > > Chris > > > The Google Base Team
> > > On Jun 18, 2:56 pm, breezyzen wrote:
> > > > I am an artist and selling my own original artwork (primarily > > > > paintings). As such, there is noUPC. If aUPCis required, aren't > > > > you automatically excluding all original art and artisan crafts? > > > > That would make google base a sad place indeed if only mass-produced > > > > items can be listed on it.
Sal's right, you should note that all product types don't require the MPN attribute. You can find more information from the link provided in his post. Alex E, we'll use the information from the ISBN, MPN, or UPC attributes when it's relevant for a particular search. However, please know that the technology Product Search uses is similar to that employed on Google.com to automatically determine the relevancy of a particular site to each user query. Many signals are involved in search algorithms and any number of factors may explain changes in search result placement. We're constantly working to improve search, and any changes we make will focus on improving the experience for our users.
> > I have noticed a significant drop in traffic from our GoogleBase/GPS > > listings in recent weeks. It is likely that our relevance has slipped > > a bit, because I have noticed our ranking for some popular queries > > slipping onto the 2nd page of results. I suspect that one of the > > factors contributing to this decline is the Base algorithm's switch to > > incorporateUPCand MPN more heavily in determining relevance. I > > assume the algorithm changes didn't take effect immediately > > (6.18.07)... When exactly was the algorithm modified? > > I am submitting my apparel items at the 'style' level, instead of the > > parent SKU level. Most retailers in our space seem to be submitting > > at the parent level. I include the MPN for a specific style (size/ > > color variant of a jacket), where as others are submitting a generic > > MPN for the Parent product (no size/color variants), e.g. I would > > submit an MPN of E142-Rod-L, whereas someone else might only submit > > the E142 for the MPN for a product with the same 'Title'. How is > > GoogleBase determining which MPN is the "correct" MPN to grade > > relevance from? Am I getting penalized for submitting data which is > > too specific? Hope the question makes sense. I would love to get this > > straightened out soon.
> > On Jul 25, 2:47 pm, Alex E wrote:
> > > I think the question everyone is wondering about, is whether omission > > > of these attributes will negatively affect the ranking of an item.
> > > If someone searches for "Nirvana", will a CD listing with ISBN be > > > ranked higher than a T-shirt without it?
> > > I think everyone here is hoping to hear the answer to this question.
> > > Alex
> > > On Jun 18, 7:49 pm, Chris A. wrote:
> > > > Hi breezyzen-
> > > > Please know that these new required attributes are not intended to > > > > exclude items from Google Base; but instead, these attributes are > > > > intended to allow us to categorize items in popular and standardized > > > > product types in order to return more relevant results to our users. > > > > If these attributes are not applicable to your items, you may leave > > > > these attributes blank or omit them from your file. Omitting these > > > > unique identifiers for products such as original art and artisan > > > > crafts will not affect these items' placement or inclusion in our > > > > search results. Although there is no need to include attributes in > > > > your bulk upload that are completely irrelevant to your items, we do > > > > highly recommend including as much information as possible to help us > > > > match users' queries to your items.
> > > > Chris > > > > The Google Base Team
> > > > On Jun 18, 2:56 pm, breezyzen wrote:
> > > > > I am an artist and selling my own original artwork (primarily > > > > > paintings). As such, there is noUPC. If aUPCis required, aren't > > > > > you automatically excluding all original art and artisan crafts? > > > > > That would make google base a sad place indeed if only mass-produced > > > > > items can be listed on it.
