A "BarCamp" with a $20 onsite fee - SVWB User Experience BarCamp
Raines Cohen
$20 fee for onsite registration -- is this counter to BarCamp
principles?
Raines, *camp counselor
-
Our 2 day User Experience barcamp is on Nov 10&11 Sat and Sun with
overnight hacking. Our 1st day will cover Facebook framework and
supporting platforms like Ruby On Rails, PHP, .NET, Flex, as well as
related developer sessions. Bring your sleeping gears. Make friends to
form your team and hack your app inside the World largest data center.
Sun Contest deadline 2pm. Judging will start 3pm. Prizes will be
available for winner(s). Prizes are sponsored by Adobe and Apress.
-
Dear guests and members,
Silicon Valley Web Builder is always working on ideas that are in
trends. Facebook is releasing major announcement this week. Facebook
is committed to User Experience and it fits our barcamp theme very
well. We are very excited to have Facebook be part of our 2 Day User
Experience barcamp. Register now!
Facebook Developer Garage
Nov 10 Sat Sessions: 6pm-10pm
Join our Facebook Group at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=18310008024
Join our Facebook Event at
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=13205595062
User Experience Barcamp
Nov 10 Sat Sessions: 6pm-10pm
Hacking Overnight
Nov 11 Sun Sessions: 1pm-3pm
Contest Deadline: 2pm
Judging: 3pm
Register: http://svwbbarcamp.eventbrite.com
Free if pre-registered; $20 at the door
Christopher St John
>
> This just popped into my inbox. Advance registration is free, but a
> $20 fee for onsite registration -- is this counter to BarCamp
> principles?
>
Nobody ever said BarCamps had to be free-as-in-beer. I'd see it as
a problem if you end up blocking attendees based on financial means,
but in this case you can attend for $0 with very little effort.
People who don't preregister are the scourge of event planning, it just
plain costs more to handle them and it seems fair to pass that on.
-cks
--
Christopher St. John
http://artofsystems.blogspot.com
David Crow
It's free if you pre-register.
Let's be realistic. There are costs to running BarCamps. It's much
easier if you can prepare and plan. There might be an assumption that
organizers are a covering the costs through sponsorship.
Also, as each BarCamp is run by locals the standards and norms in that
community help to define the practices. As this is run in conjunction
with BayCHI or SVWB, or whomever, that's fine, maybe it's standard
practice for their community.
Who knows?
But I'll say as our events have gotten larger and larger,
pre-registration is nice because of fire codes, room size, number of
rooms, etc.
On 10/26/07, Raines Cohen <rai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
Bryce Johnson
able to fit into the BarCamp Principles. It is easy to fork an idea
like BarCamp and I know personally I have given up trying to police
people into following principles. You can educate and inform but in
the end people will take liberties that they feel they need to.
At the first Toronto facebookcamp we had someone from Facebook speak
and they asked us not to video tape them. I thought "screw that! you
are at a BarCamp event if you don't want it out there don't talk". I
can tell you though that I am everybit as (if not more) wrong to
record someone who asked not to be recorded.
Principles are tricky things.
Bryce
On 10/26/07, David Crow <davi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Also, as each BarCamp is run by locals the standards and norms in that
> community help to define the practices. As this is run in conjunction
> with BayCHI or SVWB, or whomever, that's fine, maybe it's standard
> practice for their community.
>
> On 10/26/07, Raines Cohen <rai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > This just popped into my inbox. Advance registration is free, but a
> > $20 fee for onsite registration -- is this counter to BarCamp
> > principles?
> >
> > Raines, *camp counselor
--
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private
Bryce Johnson
Director of User Experience Design, Navantis Inc.
Chicken wrangler - http://www.thechickentest.com
Pete Prodoehl
> On 10/26/07, Raines Cohen <rai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This just popped into my inbox. Advance registration is free, but a
>> $20 fee for onsite registration -- is this counter to BarCamp
>> principles?
>>
>
> Nobody ever said BarCamps had to be free-as-in-beer. I'd see it as
> a problem if you end up blocking attendees based on financial means,
> but in this case you can attend for $0 with very little effort.
>
> People who don't preregister are the scourge of event planning, it just
> plain costs more to handle them and it seems fair to pass that on.
Totally agree. We've always said "It's free, but you need to
pre-register!" which helps so much with planning these events.
The only thing I'd maybe do differently is make it a "requested
donation" rather than mandatory fee. (Or make it less than $20 if possible.)
Pete
Samuel Rose
raising a community alarm about someone else's "camp", albiet for a
slightly different reason. In hindsight, I think it was a mistake on
my part to jump on other people for the events that they are hosting
like this, without having all of the facts.
(I hope) I've learned my lesson, and I attended the much-scorned
ArbCamp yesterday, which was criticized for charging an entrance fee
($5, in my case which they used to pay for supplies like notepads,
markers, etc) I support the values and format and reasoning behind
BarCamp rules and principles. But, after experiencing ArbCamp, I
really didn't see what the problem was, whatsoever. The people behind
ArbCamp, and the people who showed up were as committed to social
progress, social change, open access, and related ideals as anyone
else I know.
ArbCamp turned out to be a really, really, really great experience. As
Bill Tozier mentioned elswhere, this was an Open Space event, and it
really lived up to that principle. We formed many new connections
among all of the people who showed up, and there really was a great
diverse crowd of people, who were all really enthusiastic, smart,
positive, and engaging. This was a hell of a great event. The venue
was great, the after-party was great, and I would gladly attend
another ArbCamp, and pay a fee without hesitation, if necassary.
The other criticism was towards the guest speaker, http://www.jaffejuice.com/
(Joseph Jaffe), which was optional. I didn't go to it, but it looked
interesting. The event was absolutely not focused around this speaking
engagement, Joseph spoke at the end of the event, and during this time
I hung out in the space we used for ArbCamp, and brainstormed
incorporating maps into media wiki software with a couple other people
I met there.
I think that if any of you got to know the people who where behind
ArbCamp, you would agree that these are great people, who support all
of the values and principles of BarCamp. And if you would have
attended, you'd be hard-pressed to argue how they might have infringed
on, or abused those principles.
Verdict: Criticisms of ArbCamp completely unjustified.
Personal lesson: Get all of the facts, before passing judgement.
Sam Rose
On Oct 26, 12:44 pm, Raines Cohen <rain...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This just popped into my inbox. Advance registration is free, but a
> $20 fee for onsite registration -- is this counter to BarCamp
> principles?
>
> Raines, *camp counselor
> -
> Our 2 day User Experience barcamp is on Nov 10&11 Sat and Sun with
> overnight hacking. Our 1st day will cover Facebook framework and
> supporting platforms like Ruby On Rails, PHP, .NET, Flex, as well as
> related developer sessions. Bring your sleeping gears. Make friends to
> form your team and hack your app inside the World largest data center.
>
> Sun Contest deadline 2pm. Judging will start 3pm. Prizes will be
> available for winner(s). Prizes are sponsored by Adobe and Apress.
>
> -
> Dear guests and members,
>
> Silicon Valley Web Builder is always working on ideas that are in
> trends. Facebook is releasing major announcement this week. Facebook
> is committed to User Experience and it fits our barcamp theme very
> well. We are very excited to have Facebook be part of our 2 Day User
> Experience barcamp. Register now!
>
> Facebook Developer Garage
> Nov 10 Sat Sessions: 6pm-10pm
> Join our Facebook Group athttp://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=18310008024
> Join our Facebook Event athttp://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=13205595062
gregoire
learnt... and bravo for your fair "auto-critic"!
My opinion is that the "official" format of barcamps should be
implicitly without any fee and without "advertising" about guest
speakers (and with a fair respect of the "sponsoring philosophy", even
if it's not the matter of this thread).
On the other hand, some organizers could make the choice to charge fee
and/or spotlight some "stars", but they should feel necessary to
explain/justify/discuss their choice, even with just starting a
discussion like this one.
After reading this discussion I can understand some reasons why the
"User Experience Barcamp" organizers choose this way, and I also feel
like I would have enjoy ArbCamp.
But, when I've first heard about these two barcamps, I've just had the
same "instinctive" reaction than the reactions you and Raines have
had.
And I still believe that these are healthy reactions and that these
are an important part of the conservation of the spirit of barcamping.
I think it's inequitable that you, Raines or others have to feel "I've
made some unjustified criticisms" (that's never a pleasant feeling).
Instead of that, that seems more fair to consider that people who are
not following the basic rules need to inform the community BEFORE.
With this process the community can be sure that the organizers have
really asked themselves the right questions... and "camp counselors"
and other spiritkeepers could have a less ungrateful role!
I know that organizing a barcamp represents a lot of work, and some
organizers probably consider that they don't need another stuff to add
to their todo.
My personal view is that they choose the wrong way if they don't
consider that this investment in time is absolutely necessary and
valuable for their barcamp AND for the whole community.
Gregoire
On Oct 28, 6:49 pm, Samuel Rose <samuel.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was one of the people who was guilty, not to far back, of jumping
> raising a community alarm about someone else's "camp", albiet for a
> slightly different reason. In hindsight, I think it was a mistake on
> my part to jump on other people for the events that they are hosting
> like this, without having all of the facts.
>
> (I hope) I've learned my lesson, and I attended the much-scorned
> ArbCamp yesterday, which was criticized for charging an entrance fee
> ($5, in my case which they used to pay for supplies like notepads,
> markers, etc) I support the values and format and reasoning behind
> BarCamp rules and principles. But, after experiencing ArbCamp, I
> really didn't see what the problem was, whatsoever. The people behind
> ArbCamp, and the people who showed up were as committed to social
> progress, social change, open access, and related ideals as anyone
> else I know.
>
> ArbCamp turned out to be a really, really, really great experience. As
> Bill Tozier mentioned elswhere, this was an Open Space event, and it
> really lived up to that principle. We formed many new connections
> among all of the people who showed up, and there really was a great
> diverse crowd of people, who were all really enthusiastic, smart,
> positive, and engaging. This was a hell of a great event. The venue
> was great, the after-party was great, and I would gladly attend
> another ArbCamp, and pay a fee without hesitation, if necassary.
>
> The other criticism was towards the guest speaker,http://www.jaffejuice.com/
Eric Skiff
Doing *something* to help reduce no-shows seems to be critical to making good use of everyones space, time, and money, and we've discussed it internally for both PodcampNYC and BarcampNYC but I definitely agree that whatever measure is taken needs to be discussed before it happens.
-Eric
--
Eric Skiff
http://clipmarks.com
718-809-8692
Blog : http://GlitchNYC.com
Podcast : http://AlternativeMusicShow.com
Learn Stuff: http://clipiversity.com
Tara Hunt
RE: ArbCamp
Chris and I talked about this at length and I expressed my sadness that members of the BarCamp community got into flamewars with potential members...something that I fear will mark BarCampers in Ann Arbor as swarmers. I'm also afraid that I contributed by posting a paragraph of criticism on their wiki (although it was more to give and get clarification on the overlap, I had no idea of the heat being generated).
I don't think BarCamps have to be free. Heck, we charged $60 for WineCamp (I think it was) so that we could pre-plan (we had to carry lots of groceries 4 hours into the countryside and we didn't want to over or underestimate) and we didn't need to spend as much time on gathering sponsors. As Eric points out, it really helps with reducing the no-shows. The rules that make BarCamp what it is are simple: grassroots, no pre-planning, D.I.Y. type of culture (everyone pitches in), open dialogue (no NDAs, CAN blog, etc.), open invitations (even where space is limited it is first come, first served instead of invite only), etc. The most important part is the outcome: accelerating serendipity, getting ideas out for general feedback and collaboration and serving the community members needs for connecting.
Eric, I'm glad you went. It would be cool to reach out and introduce ourselves to the organizers of these camps in a positive manner. If they are misinterpreting the BarCamp rules, we should gently guide them on this.
T.
tara 'miss rogue' hunt
co-founder & CMO
Citizen Agency (www.citizenagency.com)
blog: www.horsepigcow.com
phone: 415-694-1951
fax: 415-727-5335
Samuel Rose
taking any of it personally. I have huge amounts of respect for both
the people who created ArbCamp, and for many of the people who were
criticising it initially. So, I figured it was mostly a
misunderstanding, and/or a mistake much like the one I was very guilty
of making myself.
I think people will likely learn from this, and I think as more events
happen in Ann Arbor, people will come to see the nature of the people
in this area, and will appreciate what they are trying to do. So, I am
optimistic about all of this. I also think it's great that you are
thinking about ways to kind of welcome, and constructively inform new
"camp" organizers. That is good, IMHO, and it encourages think any of
these "growing pains" in the realm of BarCamps will hurt it in the
long run.
Much thanks to all of you out there for your efforts to create these
great unconferences.
On Oct 29, 2:02 pm, "Tara Hunt" <horsepig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> RE: ArbCamp
>
> Chris and I talked about this at length and I expressed my sadness that
> members of the BarCamp community got into flamewars with potential
> members...something that I fear will mark BarCampers in Ann Arbor as
> swarmers. I'm also afraid that I contributed by posting a paragraph of
> criticism on their wiki (although it was more to give and get clarification
> on the overlap, I had no idea of the heat being generated).
>
> I don't think BarCamps have to be free. Heck, we charged $60 for WineCamp (I
> think it was) so that we could pre-plan (we had to carry lots of groceries 4
> hours into the countryside and we didn't want to over or underestimate) and
> we didn't need to spend as much time on gathering sponsors. As Eric points
> out, it really helps with reducing the no-shows. The rules that make BarCamp
> what it is are simple: grassroots, no pre-planning, D.I.Y. type of culture
> (everyone pitches in), open dialogue (no NDAs, CAN blog, etc.), open
> invitations (even where space is limited it is first come, first served
> instead of invite only), etc. The most important part is the outcome:
> accelerating serendipity, getting ideas out for general feedback and
> collaboration and serving the community members needs for connecting.
>
> Eric, I'm glad you went. It would be cool to reach out and introduce
> ourselves to the organizers of these camps in a positive manner. If they are
> misinterpreting the BarCamp rules, we should gently guide them on this.
>
> T.
>
Samuel Rose
this in depth, but I did want to say that I think you make some really
great points here, Gregoire. I thank you for offering these valuable
insights, and I think your advice below is a great contribution to
helping us all grow as an open community, and global network.
Sam
heather...@gmail.com
Just throwing out my 2 cents on the matter, having organized 2
barcamps and lots of other events in the LA area. I love that barcamp
is free, however, the no-show problem is a big problem. From the
beginning I wanted to impose a small fee - $5-20 to attend barcamps.
There are several reasons.
1. People are less likely to flake out when they have put their money
down
2. It takes some pressure off the organizers from raising money to
cover the costs of the whole event. (Remember the organizers are
usually volunteers.)
I know not everyone agrees with charging, but it's really not more
than you would pay to go out to lunch, and the value people get - even
if they show up for 1 hour - is tremendous.
If you're getting something for free, someone else is most likely
paying your way in time, money and energy. It's a disservice to expect
all that for free without giving something back in return.
Cheers,
-Heather
On Oct 29, 11:02 am, "Tara Hunt" <horsepig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> RE: ArbCamp
>
> Chris and I talked about this at length and I expressed my sadness that
> members of the BarCamp community got into flamewars with potential
> members...something that I fear will mark BarCampers in Ann Arbor as
> swarmers. I'm also afraid that I contributed by posting a paragraph of
> criticism on their wiki (although it was more to give and get clarification
> on the overlap, I had no idea of the heat being generated).
>
> I don't think BarCamps have to be free. Heck, we charged $60 for WineCamp (I
> think it was) so that we could pre-plan (we had to carry lots of groceries 4
> hours into the countryside and we didn't want to over or underestimate) and
> we didn't need to spend as much time on gathering sponsors. As Eric points
> out, it really helps with reducing the no-shows. The rules that make BarCamp
> what it is are simple: grassroots, no pre-planning, D.I.Y. type of culture
> (everyone pitches in), open dialogue (no NDAs, CAN blog, etc.), open
> invitations (even where space is limited it is first come, first served
> instead of invite only), etc. The most important part is the outcome:
> accelerating serendipity, getting ideas out for general feedback and
> collaboration and serving the community members needs for connecting.
>
> Eric, I'm glad you went. It would be cool to reach out and introduce
> ourselves to the organizers of these camps in a positive manner. If they are
> misinterpreting the BarCamp rules, we should gently guide them on this.
>
> T.
>
nima dilmaghani
Nima
Kevin Ciesielski
-KeVroN
Pete Prodoehl
> With shirts being the largest single cost of Barcamp Milwaukee2 I am coming
> around to the idea of a 5 buck reg fee. I was originally against it.
> -KeVroN
Finally! :)
As I mentioned previously, we're providing almost all participants with
a shirt, free meals and beverages, and a place to geek-out for 24+
hours. I think that's worth at least 5 bucks 'donation' to anyone who
wants to attend.
Pete
Evan Prodromou
<heathervesc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you're getting something for free, someone else is most likely
> paying your way in time, money and energy. It's a disservice to expect
> all that for free without giving something back in return.
What bothers me most about this line of reasoning is the way it treats
BarCamp attendees as an audience -- a bunch of people getting a free
show, and food and schwag to boot.
This is, of course, totally untrue. BarCampers are _participants_ --
that's a core BarCamp value. The audience is the show at a BarCamp.
Participants provide incredible value to the event -- in fact, they
_are_ the event.
BarCamps get off pretty cheap for the "talent" we attract, and we
should probably be grateful for it rather than gripey. There aren't
too many public speakers who are willing to do a conference in return
for coffee, lunch, and a T-shirt.
By providing an environment of hospitality, organizers clear the way
for BarCampers to do the real, important work that BarCamp is all
about. People who've been well taken care of feel an obligation to
contribute -- and hopefully they do great work. People who've _paid_,
however, don't feel any obligation -- and that's where you start to
have trouble.
Do BarCampers "give something back in return"? Absolutely. Let's not
forget that what they give is much more important and valuable than a
couple of cheese sandwiches and a 100% cotton XXL.
-Evan
Pete Prodoehl
I guess I've always looked at it as "hey, let's all pitch in to make
this thing happen" more than "please pay X number of dollars to attend"
and for some people, pitching in money is easier than pitching in time.
I know personally that myself, as many others, put in a lot of hours
planning and organizing BarCampMilwaukee2, and our time is valuable. Is
it fair to ask people to pitch in money? For BarCampMilwaukee2 I wanted
a "suggested donation" step in the registration process. We got a few
people to pitch in, but not many. I blame myself for not making the
process very clear. (We'll do better next time!)
Pete
Evan Prodromou
> for some people, pitching in money is easier than pitching in time.
Amen. I think for a lot of people, and companies, that's the case.
> I know personally that myself, as many others, put in a lot of hours
> planning and organizing BarCampMilwaukee2, and our time is valuable. Is
> it fair to ask people to pitch in money?
Donations, sponsorships (including individual sponsorships), passing
the hat around at the event: all really good.
What I really worry about is an "us-versus-them" mentality. "_We_ work
really hard, and _they_ should be willing to pay for the fruits of our
labours." "_We_ are the show; _they_ are the audience."
When you get to that point, there's not really much purpose to calling
your BarCamp an "unconference". It's just a plain ol' conference:
i.e., some people working really hard to put on a show for others in
exchange for money. Often useful, often fun, but not as unique and
needed as the BarCamp idea is.
-Evan
Eric Skiff
The reality is that it is a little us vs them. The planners are trying to orchestrate a great event for the participants - but to codify it with a transaction makes it that much easier for participants to sit back and see what their money "bought them", rather than step up and make their own experience. It also allows us as organizers to separate ourselves further from being participants. I think both of those could have a profound effect on the atmosphere of a camp.
Tara - How did the scale of BarCampBlock change the event for you? Did you feel able to participate as much as you have at smaller camps? If so, did you do anything specific to ensure that you were able to?
-Eric
heather...@gmail.com
organizer's role to provide an infrastructure for the event to happen.
And the cost to organize the infrastructure changes depending on the
number of people who show up. It's dramatically different and a hassle
if the group is 20 or 200.
Ultimately, organizers must find the method that works best for (you
and) your community. The methodology is different depending on if it's
a group of people that pitch in self-lessly vs one with passive
lurkers - and the graduation in between.
-H