BART Transfer Question

[Kenneth M. Lin]

Okay, let's say I grabbed a transfer from the BART station to get on a local
bus. It says I get fifty cents off if I show the transfer to the bus
driver. Do I need to pay the rest of the bus fare in cash or would Clipper
know how much to deduct?

Bay Area transits are still very confusing for those that do not take them
daily.

[Keith Keller]

On 2012-04-18, Kenneth M. Lin <kennet...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Okay, let's say I grabbed a transfer from the BART station to get on a local
> bus. It says I get fifty cents off if I show the transfer to the bus
> driver. Do I need to pay the rest of the bus fare in cash or would Clipper
> know how much to deduct?

If you use your Clipper card for the BART portion of your trip, you are
not supposed to need to take a transfer. Clipper is supposed to
automatically apply discounts as if you took the transfer at the
station. (It doesn't always work, unfortunately.)

I don't believe that there is any way of applying a discount to the
Clipper fare by providing the driver a paper transfer.

> Bay Area transits are still very confusing for those that do not take them
> daily.

Absolutely.

--keith

--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

[Peter Lawrence]

On 4/18/12 2:55 PM, Keith Keller wrote:
> On 2012-04-18, Kenneth M. Lin<kennet...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> Okay, let's say I grabbed a transfer from the BART station to get on a local
>> bus. It says I get fifty cents off if I show the transfer to the bus
>> driver. Do I need to pay the rest of the bus fare in cash or would Clipper
>> know how much to deduct?
>
> If you use your Clipper card for the BART portion of your trip, you are
> not supposed to need to take a transfer. Clipper is supposed to
> automatically apply discounts as if you took the transfer at the
> station. (It doesn't always work, unfortunately.)

And when it doesn't work (when using a Clipper Card) call the Clipper Card
customer service line. They should be able to credit your Clipper Card
account to correct the overcharge.


- Peter

[Brad Allen]

In article <jn1qvv$qmc$1...@dont-email.me>,

Is there a statement that details this so you can reconcile errors? I
was wondering that as I exited the Fremont BART and boarded the #181
bus and tried to figure out what just happened (the fare gate didn't
work so I went to another one, then the bus only charged me $2 instead
of $4). A statement of detailed charges and discounts would dispell
those wonderments.

[Peter Lawrence]

If you register your card, you can download all your Clipper transactions in
a PDF file for the past 30 and past 60 days from their website:
http://www.clippercard.com


- Peter

[Brad Allen]

" > Is there a statement that details this so you can reconcile
" > errors? I was wondering that as I exited the Fremont BART and
" > boarded the #181 bus and tried to figure out what just happened
" > (the fare gate didn't work so I went to another one, then the bus
" > only charged me $2 instead of $4). A statement of detailed
" > charges and discounts would dispell those wonderments.
"
" If you register your card, you can download all your Clipper
" transactions in a PDF file for the past 30 and past 60 days from
" their website: http://www.clippercard.com

A lady on VTA said all you need to register is an email address -- no
name, address, phone number, etc.. I'm interested in trying that out.

[Brad Allen]

In article <4fadb4e6$0$16142$742e...@news.sonic.net>,

That seems false. I had to put name, address, etc..

It does have a history button, and a balance button. Both seem not to
show anything. I might not be able to access history before the card
was registered. I might have to wait for a nightly update, dock the
card, then wait for another nightly update, or some sequence like
that, for the information to show up. I'll be interested to see.

[Steve Pope]

Brad Allen <q...@sonic.net> wrote:

>In article <4fadb4e6$0$16142$742e...@news.sonic.net>,

>" A lady on VTA said all you need to register is an email address --
>" no name, address, phone number, etc.. I'm interested in trying that
>" out.

>That seems false. I had to put name, address, etc..

I don't think there's a way of procuring a Clipper Card other
than by using a credit card to buy it, and so then they have
your address anyway. (Or at least, somebody's address.)

Unlesss there is now a way of buying one from a vending machine
for cash.


Steve

[Kenneth M. Lin]

"Peter Lawrence" wrote in message news:jok0ic$4dk$1...@dont-email.me...

What's so weird about Clipper is that if you add values online, it will not
be reflected until the next time you use the card somewhere. They give you
a reference number but there's absolutely no way to whether the value has
been processed until it's too late. This means that I am never sure whether
the added value has come through until I have need of it. And if it wasn't
what am I suppose to do? I add values online because they don't have a
terminal at the bus stop to put more money in.

I also learned the hard way that if your regular cash runs out (or becomes
negative), then the BART portion stops working too. They need to revamp
their FAQ to explain all these because I have no ideas what's going on.

[Peter Lawrence]

On 5/12/12 11:35 PM, Kenneth M. Lin wrote:
> "Peter Lawrence" wrote in message news:jok0ic$4dk$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 5/10/12 11:33 PM, Brad Allen wrote:
>> In article<jn1qvv$qmc$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Peter Lawrence<humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>> " On 4/18/12 2:55 PM, Keith Keller wrote:
>> "> On 2012-04-18, Kenneth M. Lin<kennet...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> ">>
>> ">> Okay, let's say I grabbed a transfer from the BART station to get
>> ">> on a local bus. It says I get fifty cents off if I show the
>> ">> transfer to the bus driver. Do I need to pay the rest of the bus
>> ">> fare in cash or would Clipper know how much to deduct?
>> ">
>> "> If you use your Clipper card for the BART portion of your trip,
>> "> you are not supposed to need to take a transfer. Clipper is
>> "> supposed to automatically apply discounts as if you took the
>> "> transfer at the station. (It doesn't always work, unfortunately.)
>> "
>> " And when it doesn't work (when using a Clipper Card) call the
>> " Clipper Card customer service line. They should be able to credit
>> " your Clipper Card account to correct the overcharge.
>>

>> Is there a statement that details this so you can reconcile errors? I
>> was wondering that as I exited the Fremont BART and boarded the #181
>> bus and tried to figure out what just happened (the fare gate didn't
>> work so I went to another one, then the bus only charged me $2 instead
>> of $4). A statement of detailed charges and discounts would dispell
>> those wonderments.
>
>> If you register your card, you can download all your Clipper transactions
>> in a PDF file for the past 30 and past 60 days from their website:
>> http://www.clippercard.com
>
> What's so weird about Clipper is that if you add values online, it will not
> be reflected until the next time you use the card somewhere. They give you a
> reference number but there's absolutely no way to whether the value has been
> processed until it's too late. This means that I am never sure whether the
> added value has come through until I have need of it. And if it wasn't what
> am I suppose to do? I add values online because they don't have a terminal
> at the bus stop to put more money in.
>
> I also learned the hard way that if your regular cash runs out (or becomes
> negative), then the BART portion stops working too. They need to revamp
> their FAQ to explain all these because I have no ideas what's going on.

Using their website is the *slow* way to add value to your Clipper Card. I
think the problem is that the interface between the payment portion of the
website is *not* connected directly to your bank (or credit card company)
nor to your Clipper Card account. So it's a three step process that can
have considerable lag time. (But I think they warn you about the potential
lag time on their website.)

The far quicker method to add value to your Clipper Card is to do so at a
BART station, at Walgreen's (and a few other retailers), or at select Muni
stations or at the San Francisco or San Jose Caltrain station. Value added
at these venues are done in real time, so once the transaction is completed
the value has been added to your card.

Since I'm often times in a rush to catch a BART train, what I'll do is when
my Clipper Card is running low in value is to add value to my card at the
BART station AFTER I disembark BART but before I head out of the station to
my final destination.


- Peter

[Brad Allen]

In article <jokdni$fas$1...@blue-new.rahul.net>,

I haven't tried the Clipper Card fare machines (blue) at Caltrain
(Cahill St station) or BART (I saw some at Powell St station), but I
know for a fact that you buy them with cash at Walgreens, the only way
I've bought them, and also at the VTA customer service office, I
assume, since I already added cash at that office. Neither time did
they ask for my name or address or any other such information. So
your point is outdated.

[Brad Allen]

" What's so weird about Clipper is that if you add values online, it
" will not be reflected until the next time you use the card
" somewhere. They give you a reference number but there's absolutely
" no way to whether the value has been processed until it's too late.
" This means that I am never sure whether the added value has come
" through until I have need of it. And if it wasn't what am I suppose
" to do? I add values online because they don't have a terminal at
" the bus stop to put more money in.
"
" I also learned the hard way that if your regular cash runs out (or
" becomes negative), then the BART portion stops working too. They
" need to revamp their FAQ to explain all these because I have no
" ideas what's going on.

Yes. Right. Apparently, Clipper Card transactions done away from the
card need to be buffered in the Clipper Card terminals. The Clipper
Card terminals only communicate with home base at night. So, for a
transaction to make it from the card to home base, first it has to go
a terminal, then go from the terminal to home base during the nightly
update. For a transaction to go from home base to the card, it first
has to go to (all) the terminals during the nightly update, then to
the card the next time it gets to a terminal. Since there's lots of
failure points (even before and after the transaction communication
process, not only in the transaction communication process itself),
you are right, there's just no way of knowing.

I already decided that I will not use online to add value. I will
only do it physically.

From:
<https://www.clippercard.com/ClipperWeb/useWaysToAddValue.do?CSRT=14014563262411625730>
"Ways to add value"

Timing for adding value

When adding value to your Clipper card, choose the combination of
passes, tickets or Clipper Cash that suit your needs. To find out
which passes, tickets and ride books are available by individual
transit provider, click here. You can add value in several
ways. Value added in person is available instantly, while it may
take up to 3-5 days for value added online or over the phone to be
available.*

Online - available within 3-5 days*

Over the phone - by calling 877.878.8883 - available within 3-5
days*

In person - at a Clipper Add Value machine or participating retail
store or transit ticket office (click here for a list of
locations) available immediately

At work - through your employee transit benefit program- if
ordered online, available by the first day of the benefit month*

Automatically - by setting up Autoload* online

So, I will only add value at Walgreens, VTA Customer Service, the
Caltrain Clipper Card Add Fare Machine, or the BART Add Fare machine
(which takes Clipper Card), or similar. Personally, I find this
extremely nuisansome, since I don't always go to those places.
Alternatively, I might have two cards, and just switch cards to the
one I know has a proper balance while I wait for the other one to
settle. This won't work for pass purchases, unless I stagger the
passes. Yes, that's exactly what I would do: stagger the passes back
and forth. Unless I have multiagency passes that expire at different
times. Then I'd have to really hold Clipper personnel by the throat.
What a nuisance. I'd have to make a pass-period-frequency trip to a
physical pass purchase location. That is a nuisance. Reading here
what happens when your online purchase hits a snag like a credit card
being renewed, I'd not want to be thrown in jail with a felony
conviction for a renewed credit card. That's absurd. Treating us
like cattle can only go so far, but then, I felt like cattle when I
was riding in the Caltrain like cargo between San Jose and Mountain
View (it got a bit better when more interesting people got on board).

[Brad Allen]

>" I also learned the hard way that if your regular cash runs out (or
>" becomes negative), then the BART portion stops working too. They
>" need to revamp their FAQ to explain all these because I have no
>" ideas what's going on.

Caltrain has a large banner poster sign at San Jose Cahill Street
Station that says "Remember, keep $1.25 on your card at all times".
This is for Caltrain zone pass holders where those passes are stored
on the Clipper Card. I didn't find anyplace that caused me to
remember it: I learned it from the Remember sign itself.

There used to be such a thing as a Caltrain monthly pass that also is
good for parking and local buses. I believe there still is, since the
literature says if you have one, you can't use Clipper Card. That
flies in the face of VTA's insistence that in June they're stopping
use of non-Clipper Card passes.

This is a transition. The agencies need to continue transitioning,
and they need to specify to the citizens how it works better. That's
all. Everybody has to have some lenience, and I hope the transit
agencies are aware of that during the process. But I think it's
moribund for them to make you stop using transit altogether when their
payment processing system decided to fail on you (such as renewed
credit cards). Do they ask you to "keep a backup pass for when our
system fails"??

[Brad Allen]

In article <jooom6$tmh$1...@dont-email.me>,

Peter, thanks for your posting. It clarifies a lot. Also, this above
paragraph is good advice. Thanks.

[Steve Pope]

It's good advice situationally, but I think you're not getting the
3% high-value BART discount when you do it this way. I'm under
the impression the only way to get the 3% discount is to set up
auto-loading of BART onto the Clipper Card. (In which case the
above procedure is unnecessary.)


Steve