Mt.Tam High crash
Dan Young
reporter) bikes crashing at Mt. Tamalpais High School; 1 fatality. Anyone have any details?
-- Dan Young SSBU Hardware Pubs / "I brake for bezier curves." MS:9U-535/ Yeah, I stopped drinking Evian as soon as I read it backwards.
D Lamar
Dan Carter wrote in message <79vu7n$p...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>Dan Young:
>>Saw a little bit of a T.V. news report last night, about 2
>>"Ninja-style" (according to reporter) bikes crashing at Mt.
>>Tamalpais High School; 1 fatality. Anyone have any details?
I only caught a couple of seconds of the report on TV. I saw a picture of a
bike laying on its side, but I couldn't tell what it was. By the time my
brain engaged, it was gone.\
So as not to offend any young people out there, I'll tlak about MYSELF.
When I was 17, I would have had NO business being on a sportbike. At that
age I had a Cushman Eagle and a Lambretta. I still managed to do stupid
things that I was lucky to live through. A couple of years later I got a
Triumph Cub (200cc) and still was barely able to handle the "power."
My sympathies go to the family.
Don
The Agency
Dan Carter wrote in message <79vu7n$p...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>Dan Young:
>>Saw a little bit of a T.V. news report last night, about 2
>>"Ninja-style" (according to reporter) bikes crashing at Mt.
>>Tamalpais High School; 1 fatality. Anyone have any details?
>
>"A California Highway Patrol spokesman said senior Isear Wesley was fatally
>injured and another student was injured at 12:40 p.m. Wednesday when they
>collided while racing Ninja-style motorcycles during a lunch break. He
said
>17-year-old Charles Caston was stopped in the middle of Homestead when
>Wesley clipped him from behind, sending both youths sprawling onto the
>pavement."
>SNIP>
When the officer was asked if they were wearing helmets, he responded, "
most likely, there was fragments of helmets all over the road".
Another smart move by unskilled riders, giving the rest of us a continued
bad name.
Tim May
<jj...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> When the officer was asked if they were wearing helmets, he responded, "
> most likely, there was fragments of helmets all over the road".
>
> Another smart move by unskilled riders, giving the rest of us a continued
> bad name.
KPIX, the CBS television affiliate, carried the story last night. Said the
bikes collided while the two riders were racing.
(I can't swear to it, but I got the impression the bikes hit
head-on...could have been a game of chicken, if so.)
No details will be fleshed out, as it were.
Seems like they both deserve the Darwin Prize.
--Tim May
--
Y2K -- Where were you when the lights went out?
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments.
immorALEXample
Ok let's read the paper.
Malcom Glover of the examiner writes:
CHP M. Bartholomew said both were riding Kawis
(what difference does that really make??)
Witnesses saw them racing, timed and together
(Didn't anyone in this residential area tell the cops or are they all cool
towards sportbikes)
Wesley struck the side of the stopped bike, propelling both the bikes
several hundred yards forward and ejecting the riders.
(several hundred yards?? how did this impossible feat get past even the
dumbest editor at the Examiner. Ejecting the riders?? This is meaningless
when talking about motorcycles.)
Officers found fragments of the helmets everywhere.
(Never seen a helmet explode but it's possible, just barely possible. So is
the possibility that the helmets were similarly painted to match the bikes'
bodywork.)
The accident is under investigation.
(By trainees with no supervision apparently.)
Wow that was a little critical but with all the crime and the tremendous
amount of carnage on the roads between ordinary commuters, I think the media
once again displays a cliche anti-biking message that I have heard long
enough.
Think about the cops' reaction too: In the future they will be ticket happy
to passing-through sportbikers after looking at this mess.
Sympathies to the survivors, RIP to the dead, the message is clear to me:
Think about safe biking when you feel that need-for -speed exuberance.
Peace!
Norm Ngim
>On Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:36:34 -0800, "The Agency" <jj...@email.msn.com>
>wrote:
>You mean from that statement you were able to determine that the accident
>was due to rider error???
>
>
>>===================================
>Erik Astrup
>1995 Triumph Tiger - 1993 Yamaha TDM-850
>Check out my Tiger web page at:
>http://www.mother.com/~eastrup/tiger/
>====================================
I heard from someone who saw the report that the deceased rider had been
riding for 5 years, but was unlicensed. He clipped the other bike which had
stopped and crashed. Young, unlicensed rider riding irresponsibly. We've
heard that before. The downside is that this will give more ammunition to
the sportbike detractors. Maybe they need to make sportbikes like beer: You
must be 21 to participate.
Norm
Dan Carter
>Saw a little bit of a T.V. news report last night, about 2
>"Ninja-style" (according to reporter) bikes crashing at Mt.
>Tamalpais High School; 1 fatality. Anyone have any details?
This is from www.sfgate.com:
"A California Highway Patrol spokesman said senior Isear Wesley was fatally
injured and another student was injured at 12:40 p.m. Wednesday when they
collided while racing Ninja-style motorcycles during a lunch break. He said
17-year-old Charles Caston was stopped in the middle of Homestead when
Wesley clipped him from behind, sending both youths sprawling onto the
pavement."
Just goes to show you - the most dangerous motorists on the road, in
proportion to their numbers, are our fellow motorcyclists. QEfD.
Dan Carter, San Luis Obispo, CA, Dat...@worldnet.att.net
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
Erik Astrup
wrote:
>When the officer was asked if they were wearing helmets, he responded, "
>most likely, there was fragments of helmets all over the road".
>
>Another smart move by unskilled riders, giving the rest of us a continued
>bad name.
You mean from that statement you were able to determine that the accident
Denise Howard
> Another smart move by unskilled riders, giving the rest of us a continued
> bad name.
In KRON's report on the crash, they went on to show bikes (Ducatis,
Hondas) in a showroom, showed a couple of guys in the city taking off on
their Harleys, interviewed a guy on the street just before he took off on
his sport bike, and showed some racers in action on the track. One of the
points made by the report was that it's okay to ride a bike really fast as
long as you do it on a track, not on the street. Throughout the report I
was holding my breath, expecting them to say something to the effect of
"Motorcyclists are a crazy bunch", but I was impressed to the contrary.
They did a good job of showing that there are all kinds of bikes and
riders and that this particular incident does not reflect riders in
general. It's unfortunate that this crash happened, but in its wake I'm
glad someone at KRON saw fit to air this kind of report! Hats off to 'em.
Denise
'91 Nighthawk 750
'95 CBR600 F3
The Agency
>wrote:
>
>>When the officer was asked if they were wearing helmets, he responded, "
>>most likely, there was fragments of helmets all over the road".
>>
>>bad name.
>
>was due to rider error???
Well, jeeze, Eric, let's see here:
Two 17 year-olds SPEEDING on a TOWN STREET, one stops on the roadway and the
other slams him. No error here?
Not to mention 17 year-old male hormones, and the normal stupidity and
feelings of invincibility of teens, apparently coupled with no training as
at least one (I'll bet BOTH) unlicensed. Error, Error, Error!
Or maybe it was societies fault, or perhaps a racial thing, after all this
IS the Bay Area!
The Agency
Dan Young
> Caston and Wesley were "racing" up and down the street at lunch. for
> some reason Caston stopped in the road and Wesley hit him, apparently
> without slowing down. Both bikes and both people came to rest "several
> hundred yards" from the point of impact, according to local cops. Both
> were wearing helmets, and both helmets shattered into many pieces.
>
Damn, this sounds a bit like the Laguna Seca crash between Bubba Shobert
andKevin Magee(?) several years ago. Magee stops in the middle of the track
during the cool-down/victory lap to do a burn-out, and Shobert, not looking,
simply rides
right into him.
-Mike Hardcore-
: Think about the cops' reaction too: In the future they will be ticket happy
: to passing-through sportbikers after looking at this mess.
: Sympathies to the survivors, RIP to the dead, the message is clear to me:
: Think about safe biking when you feel that need-for -speed exuberance.
: Peace!
Why is it that I could start riding on a old Yamaha XS650 twin at
the nubile age of 16, on a permit nonetheless, and manage not to
evolve myself in the process? I rode for over a year on that permit,
sometimes at night, on the freeway, and with a passenger. I don't get
it... I treated that machine with the respect it deserved, and managed to
not have a single accident. I was on that thing a year before I even
-heard- of the MSF course. Is common sense being bred out of society
today?
Darwin 1, motorcyclist image to the rest of the community, 0.
-Mike-
--
-Mike- DoD 5010 - AFM 803 - http://www.squidlys.com
99 ways to phone in a pizza order:
27. If they repeat the order to make sure they have it right, say "OK.
That'll be $10.99; please pull up to the first window."
Tim May
wrote:
>
> Why is it that I could start riding on a old Yamaha XS650 twin at
> the nubile age of 16, on a permit nonetheless, and manage not to
> evolve myself in the process? I rode for over a year on that permit,
> sometimes at night, on the freeway, and with a passenger.
Tautologically, because you are here.
Had you been one of those killed, you would not be posting here.
(I don't intend this to be flippant. There's a very real point about the
logical error of making arguments of the form "That can't happen--I'm
still here.")
--Tim May
--
O.J. and Clinton acquittals...American justice is dead
D Lamar
-Mike Hardcore- wrote in message ...
>
>Why is it that I could start riding on a old Yamaha XS650 twin at
>the nubile age of 16, on a permit nonetheless, and manage not to
==============================================================
I don't know why. I rode for years before I started exercising any sense at
all. I though every traffic light was the start of a race. Whether I was
in my car or on a bike. I did most of the bad things at one time or
another, but have never had a wreck on the road. I guess it was luck---I
know it wasn't sense.
Don
Gregory d'Orso
On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Norm Ngim wrote:
> Erik Astrup wrote in message <36c6ce18...@news.mother.com>...
> >On Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:36:34 -0800, "The Agency" <jj...@email.msn.com>
> >wrote:
>
>
> >You mean from that statement you were able to determine that the accident
> >was due to rider error???
> >
> >
> >>===================================
> >Erik Astrup
> >1995 Triumph Tiger - 1993 Yamaha TDM-850
> >Check out my Tiger web page at:
> >http://www.mother.com/~eastrup/tiger/
> >====================================
>
> I heard from someone who saw the report that the deceased rider had been
> riding for 5 years, but was unlicensed. He clipped the other bike which had
> stopped and crashed. Young, unlicensed rider riding irresponsibly. We've
> heard that before. The downside is that this will give more ammunition to
> the sportbike detractors. Maybe they need to make sportbikes like beer: You
> must be 21 to participate.
hhhhhm, didn't you just say the guy was unlicensed? What would the
21 year old requirement save here? Anyone can get his ass up a bike
and ride.
I have no idea about what happened, but I've learnt to read
reports with a grain of salt.
If it was just 2 dumbasses racing, or playing a stupid game, then
hell, they can pickup any stupid game they want: crash with bikes,
play russian roulette with a gun, jump from a bridge... whatever.
Just my opinion, 'fcourse.
-- Greg
_____________________________________________________________
Gregory d'Orso do...@bok.net
od...@my-dejanews.com
Dan Young <da...@rollon.engr.sgi.com> wrote:
> Saw a little bit of a T.V. news report last night, about 2 "Ninja-style"
> (according to
> reporter) bikes crashing at Mt. Tamalpais High School; 1 fatality.
> Anyone have any details?
I stayed up to watch that on Kron Wed night. It was the usual "irresponsible
motorcyclist" angle. Although they stop at a Honda/Ducati dealership and
talked to a guy and asked him what's the fastest he has gone. He said 130mph,
but it was on the track. Kudos to him; but it was washed over by clips of
cruiser types, et al, riding with the voice of "...20% more fatalities than
autos... is it too much speed(power) for riders..." Very typical news crap
that totes of stats without context.
Tai Day
'98 M750 "bete sang-froid"
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
-Mike Hardcore-
: (I don't intend this to be flippant. There's a very real point about the
: logical error of making arguments of the form "That can't happen--I'm
: still here.")
I wasn't implying that it can't happen just because I'm still breathing.
I'm just curious as to why it happens nearly as much as it does.
As a sidenote, I bet if you compare the number of fatal accidents in which
a nubile mouth-breather wraps a cage around a 7-11 (or something similar)
in a selfless act of genepool clensing to the number of comparable fatal MC
accidents for the agegroup, we probably are not doing all that bad.
It's just too bad the general public associates MOTORCYCLE with HOT FLAMING
DEATH any time they see one.
-Mike-
--
-Mike- DoD 5010 - AFM 805 - http://www.squidlys.com
99 ways to phone in a pizza order:
82. Make the first topping you order mushrooms. Make the last thing you
say "No mushrooms, please." Hang up before they have a chance to
respond.
D Lamar
Motorcycles are dangerous. The statistics prove that. The statistics may
or may not apply to you personally, but, as a whole, motorcycles are
dangerous.
You can wear extra gear, ride safer, take good courses, or whatever you
want, but, overall, motorcycles are dangerous. In the hands of most, if not
all, 17 year olds motorcycles are extremely dangerous.
I know that to be true, but choose to ride anyway. I try to do it safely
while still having fun. I'm old enough, and responsible enough, to choose
for myself and don't want some motorcycle-ignorant do-gooder television
reporter deciding for me, or making suggestions about laws that would affect
me.
Don
Eli Moyle
>a nubile mouth-breather wraps a cage around a 7-11 (or something similar)
>in a selfless act of genepool clensing to the number of comparable fatal MC
>accidents for the agegroup, we probably are not doing all that bad.
>It's just too bad the general public associates MOTORCYCLE with HOT FLAMING
>DEATH any time they see one.
Yeah, Mike, but you have to compare what percent of young drivers are
involved in one of these "selfless act of genepool cleansing" with the
percent of young motorcyclists involved in fatal MC accidents.
Speaking as someone who just jumped on a bike and rode (dirt roads, jumps,
whatever) without thinking twice, I have to agree with 'D Lamar' in that
motorcycles are extremely more dangerous in the hands of a teenager than
someone who's a little more mature. (Please hold your flames, this is the
only way I can think to word the point).
Bobo
The Agency wrote:
> Well, jeeze, Eric, let's see here:
> Two 17 year-olds SPEEDING on a TOWN STREET, one stops on the roadway and the
> other slams him. No error here?
> Not to mention 17 year-old male hormones, and the normal stupidity and
> feelings of invincibility of teens, apparently coupled with no training as
> at least one (I'll bet BOTH) unlicensed. Error, Error, Error!
> Or maybe it was societies fault, or perhaps a racial thing, after all this
> IS the Bay Area!
>
> The Agency
How about the PARENTS? Why isn't anyone mentioning the PARENTS letting a
17 year old, unlicensed, child ride a sport bike to school? Well, it
doesn't take a village to raise this child anymore!
Norm Ngim
person kind of shudder when looking at how high the speedometer goes up to,
and how they can hear the gas sloshing around? To lots of non-riders,
motorcycles look positively suicidal. I'll bet that attitude is what colors
a lot of the news reports. Non-riders don't understand many aspects of
motorcycling (like why we do it.)
Norm
"Marchant, Jon A." wrote:
> Survivor (Charles Caston, 17) was known for racing up and down streets
> near the school, had been riding for a while on his '87 Kawasaki
> (model unknown). Deceased (Ike Wesley, 17) was not known as a
> motorcyclist and was riding on a borrowed '85 Ninja 600.
D Lamar
Bobo wrote in message <36C4A2A8...@tech.org>...
>How about the PARENTS? Why isn't anyone mentioning the PARENTS letting a
>17 year old, unlicensed, child ride a sport bike to school?
=======================================================================
That is an excellent point!
I once saw a kid, about 15 years old, riding a motocross bike down a busy
road (Santa Terresa Blvd.) on his way to school. This kid was weaving in
and out of traffic, doing wheelies, and acting like you might expect a 15
year old turned loose on a motocross motorcycle on the street. He stopped
at a light and I got out and went over to him and jerked the sparkplug wire
out of the bike. I kept the wire. He said his father was going to kill me.
(I don't recommend doing this because what the kid said may have come true.)
I didn't know the kid, but my son, 15 at the time, did.
Two weeks later we all loaded up our dirt bikes on my trailer and took them
to Clear Creek. We rode the snot out of them. Myself, my son and the kid.
We had a great time and are still friends today.
Turns out his parents didn't know he had taken the bike out after they went
to work and his father, instead of killing me, almost killed him
(figuratively speaking).
Don
Tim May
> Tim May (tc...@got.net) wrote:
> : (I don't intend this to be flippant. There's a very real point about the
> : logical error of making arguments of the form "That can't happen--I'm
> : still here.")
>
> I wasn't implying that it can't happen just because I'm still breathing.
> I'm just curious as to why it happens nearly as much as it does.
>
> As a sidenote, I bet if you compare the number of fatal accidents in which
> a nubile mouth-breather wraps a cage around a 7-11 (or something similar)
> in a selfless act of genepool clensing to the number of comparable fatal MC
> accidents for the agegroup, we probably are not doing all that bad.
> It's just too bad the general public associates MOTORCYCLE with HOT FLAMING
> DEATH any time they see one.
First let me say I'm a rider, albeit not a sportbike rider. BMW R1100R.
Red. I'm also more of the touring, country roads-riding sort. I hate
freeways, I hate heavy traffic. Give me the country roads between here
(near Santa Cruz) and Santa Barbara, and over into Nevada and the
deserts....
OK, I'll bet that more kids on motorcycles kill themselves,
proportionately, than in cars. We all know how dangerous it can be. Not
just the speed, but the lack of protection in crashes (esp. with cars).
Between the higher fatality rate per mile travelled than with cars (MSF
materials said it was several times higher) and the higher overall
accident rate for younger riders and drivers, it seems pretty clear what
the numbers would be. I haven't seen the numbers, but this is what I would
expect them to show.
As for motorists associating motorcycles with HOT FLAMING DEATH, can you
blame them? How many times have you seen a rider (maybe a squid, maybe a
guy in riding leathers or a 'Stich) hunched over his Ninja or CBR and
whizzing in and out of traffic at 85 mph? I was on Highway 17 in heavy
traffic once when a _pair_ of squids were chasing each other through the
heavy traffic, weaving in and around and between cars and trucks. They
whizzed past my left door doing about 30 mph faster than I was doing. I
kept waiting for traffic to come to a stop as their wreckage blocked the
highway.
I guess they lived to die another day.
D Lamar
Tim May wrote in message ...
>As for motorists associating motorcycles with HOT FLAMING DEATH, can you
>blame them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
Unfortunately, I think the life expectancy of a typical 17 year old on a R6
(just an example, it could be a 900RR, Ducati or ZX-whatever) could be
measured in weeks.
Don
Patti Beadles
Erik Astrup <eas...@mother.com> wrote:
>You mean from that statement you were able to determine that the accident
>was due to rider error???
Every report I've read has stated that they were racing on public
streets. QED.
-Patti
--
Patti Beadles | Not just your average purple-haired
pat...@netcom.com/pat...@gammon.com | degenerate gambling adrenaline
http://www.gammon.com/ | junkie software geek leatherbyke
or just yell, "Hey, Patti!" | nethead biker.
Tim J. Clevenger
it's just the rider, whereas when the Honda Civic with 7 passengers goes
into a tailspin and hits a pickup head-on, the fatalities are much
worse. I don't care about the genepool cleansing--we need more of it.
It's the loss of innocent life in other vehicles that bothers me, and
I'd much rather see the incompetent cretins do 130 mph on a 400 pound
motorcycle than in daddy's 3,200 pound Mustang.
Regards,
Tim Clevenger
'98 PC800
Eli Moyle
again, it didn't make a whole lot of sense. Lack of sleep does that to a
person, I suppose, but I digress.
My point was that if you're going to compare fatal crashes, you have to take
the number of young drivers out there with the number of fatalities caused
by drivers in this group. Then take the number of young motorcyclists and
compare it with the number of fatalities caused by this group and compare
them. I'm sure the percentage of young riders (<21 as an example) who end
up in a fatal accident is higher than any of us wants to admit. It's
unfortunate.
I am not disagreeing with Tim's point here. I'm just saying that bikes are
much more dangerous than cars (to the operator, I suppose). And given the
reckless behavior of 17 year-old males (I was one not too long ago), it's
not really surprising that this incident happened. I particularly liked
someone questioning the parents' involvement during all this.
Eli
Tim J. Clevenger wrote in message <36C4C119...@clevenger.org>...
Jason O'Rourke
Erik Astrup <eas...@mother.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:26:18 -0800, "D Lamar" <dle...@garlic.com> wrote:
>
>>Unfortunately, I think the life expectancy of a typical 17 year old on a R6
>>(just an example, it could be a 900RR, Ducati or ZX-whatever) could be
>>measured in weeks.
>
>bike for that matter?) when you were under 18 living at home?
>
>If I had kids there isn't a chance in hell that he/she would ever own a
>street bike while I could say yay or nay. Now dirt bikes? Different story!
>
>
>===================================
>Erik Astrup
>1995 Triumph Tiger - 1993 Yamaha TDM-850
>Check out my Tiger web page at:
>http://www.mother.com/~eastrup/tiger/
>====================================
--
Jason O'Rourke j...@best.com www.jor.com
'96 BMW r850R
last dive: January 24th, Wreck of the Palawan (LA), 26 mins at 126ft max
Gregory d'Orso
On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Erik Astrup wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:26:18 -0800, "D Lamar" <dle...@garlic.com> wrote:
>
> >Unfortunately, I think the life expectancy of a typical 17 year old on a R6
> >(just an example, it could be a 900RR, Ducati or ZX-whatever) could be
> >measured in weeks.
>
> Who here had parents who would have let you buy a sportbike (or any STREET
> bike for that matter?) when you were under 18 living at home?
Me. :-)
Depends on your parents right? ;-)
It was my father's idea to get me a dirt bike when I was around 5-6 y.o.
I remember, what a trip. He told me: "c'mon, let's go to the garage,
I have to show you something..." You can imagine the effect on a 5 y.o!!!
It was a PUCH 50cc... automatic. 3 HP only but hey, wasn't too bad!
Then after a couple of years, he bought me a YZ-50. We used to ride
a lot with my brother too. I had the YZ and my father had a Montesa
250 enduro (he will never forget the kickbacks!!! :))) My brother
(8 years older than me) had first a Montesa 75, and then got a Cappra
125cc (Montesa too). We would all 3 go to a motocross track and have the
time of our lives there. *sigh* I guess he always trusted me after giving
me such a good training with dirt bikes. I bought a DT80 when I was
legally old enough to get on the road (16), then a TDR250 a couple of
years later, and errrrr... then I moved to CA and bought my Gixer...
...and hope I can save some cash for a R1 :-)))
> If I had kids there isn't a chance in hell that he/she would ever own a
> street bike while I could say yay or nay. Now dirt bikes? Different story!
hhhhm, when I have a kid, I'll train him with dirt bikes too. I think
it's a very good school and you learn a lot about handling a bike.
When I got on the real road with traffic and all, the only thing
I had to be careful about was basically the traffic. The bike was
like an extension of my body. No need to think about it when
I needed to do something. I surely have to thank my father for
that. Not only was it great, but I'm sure it helps me handle
my bikes today too.
Anyway, sorry for the long story, but you asked for it :-P
Cheers,
Timberwoof
<nen...@NOSPAMsvpal.org> wrote:
> I heard from someone who saw the report that the deceased rider had been
> riding for 5 years, but was unlicensed. He clipped the other bike which had
> stopped and crashed. Young, unlicensed rider riding irresponsibly. We've
> heard that before. The downside is that this will give more ammunition to
> the sportbike detractors. Maybe they need to make sportbikes like beer: You
> must be 21 to participate.
In Europe there are restrictions on the power or displacement of your
motorcycle for the first few years you ride. They also laugh at you for
even thinking you can get a learner's permit at 15.5.
--
Timberwoof: Hockey goalie; BMW R1100 GS rider; nice guy.
mroeder at best dot com; http://www.best.com/~mroeder
You may have the right to say that, but I will defend
to the death my right to disagree with you.
Steve Melander
>
> D Lamar wrote:
>
> >Unfortunately, I think the life expectancy
> >of a typical 17 year old on a R6 (just an
> >example, it could be a 900RR, Ducati or
> >ZX-whatever) could be measured in weeks.
>
> Who here had parents who would have let
> you buy a sportbike (or any STREET bike for
> that matter?) when you were under 18 living
> at home?
Not only did my father let me buy a bike
at 17, it was an RD350, and it was his idea.
I was aiming at a small car, and bikes just
hadn't occured to me.
He told me recently that he never worried
too much about me as a teen. Something about
trusting my judgement.
Steve 65
Steve Melander
>
> I'd much rather see the incompetent
> cretins do 130 mph on a 400 pound
> motorcycle than in daddy's 3,200
> pound Mustang.
This reminds me of a news story I read
years ago. A car left the road where it
did a left-right-left jog around somebody's
front yard, and ended up planted on a tree
(no major injuries).
Driver: 16 yo female.
Car: 4 day old 5 liter Mustang.
Driver: 4 day old license.
Hello? 16 year olds can frequently be observed
to have poor judgement. What was the parents' excuse?
Steve 65
Erik Astrup
>Unfortunately, I think the life expectancy of a typical 17 year old on a R6
>(just an example, it could be a 900RR, Ducati or ZX-whatever) could be
>measured in weeks.
Who here had parents who would have let you buy a sportbike (or any STREET
bike for that matter?) when you were under 18 living at home?
If I had kids there isn't a chance in hell that he/she would ever own a
street bike while I could say yay or nay. Now dirt bikes? Different story!
Joel Garry
>
>Bobo wrote in message <36C4A2A8...@tech.org>...
>
>>How about the PARENTS? Why isn't anyone mentioning the PARENTS letting a
>>17 year old, unlicensed, child ride a sport bike to school?
>=======================================================================
>That is an excellent point!
>
>I once saw a kid, about 15 years old, riding a motocross bike down a busy
Just a couple of days ago I saw a kid riding an ATC (yes, the old 3 wheeler)
up a street! No helmet or protective clothing. Tailgating a pickup truck.
jg
--
These opinions are my own.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/joel_garry Remove nospam to reply.
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-Mike Hardcore-
: Who here had parents who would have let you buy a sportbike (or any STREET
: bike for that matter?) when you were under 18 living at home?
Everyone in my family rode... So when I expressed interest at 15 about
getting my bike when I could get my permit at the magic age of 16, there
was not much anyone could say. So I scraped and saved and bought an old
XS650 Yamaha from my Uncle Don. And I spent an entire year before I could
even legally ride the thing turning it from a trash heap into a stunning
'classic' cafe-racer. I think the fact that I rebuilt the bike with
my own two hands may have had a great deal to do with why I rode with a
level head.
When the day came that I did get my permit and I was ready to tear-ass
on my motorbike off into the sunset my Dad simply told me "Don't ride
like an idiot, you'll get yourself killed quicker than anything if you
don't pay attention. And if you wreck it, don't expect us to pay for it."
I think that last statement stuck in my mind the most...
-Mike-
--
-Mike- DoD 5010 - AFM 805 - http://www.squidlys.com
99 ways to phone in a pizza order:
89. Order with a Speak-n-Spell where applicable.
Gregory d'Orso
On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Timberwoof wrote:
> In article <7a0l5f$sth$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Norm Ngim"
> <nen...@NOSPAMsvpal.org> wrote:
>
> > I heard from someone who saw the report that the deceased rider had been
> > riding for 5 years, but was unlicensed. He clipped the other bike which had
> > stopped and crashed. Young, unlicensed rider riding irresponsibly. We've
> > heard that before. The downside is that this will give more ammunition to
> > the sportbike detractors. Maybe they need to make sportbikes like beer: You
> > must be 21 to participate.
>
> In Europe there are restrictions on the power or displacement of your
> motorcycle for the first few years you ride. They also laugh at you for
> even thinking you can get a learner's permit at 15.5.
What country are you talking about?
I had my license when I was 16.
Gregory d'Orso
On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Steve Melander wrote:
> Erik Astrup wrote:
> >
> > D Lamar wrote:
> >
> > >Unfortunately, I think the life expectancy
> > >of a typical 17 year old on a R6 (just an
> > >example, it could be a 900RR, Ducati or
> > >ZX-whatever) could be measured in weeks.
> >
> > Who here had parents who would have let
> > you buy a sportbike (or any STREET bike for
> > that matter?) when you were under 18 living
> > at home?
>
> Not only did my father let me buy a bike
> at 17, it was an RD350, and it was his idea.
> I was aiming at a small car, and bikes just
> hadn't occured to me.
>
> He told me recently that he never worried
> too much about me as a teen. Something about
> trusting my judgement.
Same for me. A matter of trust I guess.
You can be more responsible at 17 than many other
so called "adults".
Alan R Zeleznikar
d'Orso <do...@bok.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Timberwoof wrote:
>
> > In article <7a0l5f$sth$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Norm Ngim"
> > <nen...@NOSPAMsvpal.org> wrote:
> > In Europe there are restrictions on the power or displacement of your
> > motorcycle for the first few years you ride. They also laugh at you for
> > even thinking you can get a learner's permit at 15.5.
>
> What country are you talking about?
> I had my license when I was 16.
The UK, for one, now has a licensing structure that requires new licensees
to be restricted to 33 (?) hp, regardless of the bike's engine's
displacement, if I recall correctly. So, in theory, you could buy a
Blackbird and get it restricted. Now that would be an "interesting"
experience.
Alan Z
Timberwoof
> On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Timberwoof wrote:
>
> > In article <7a0l5f$sth$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Norm Ngim"
> > <nen...@NOSPAMsvpal.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I heard from someone who saw the report that the deceased rider had been
> > > riding for 5 years, but was unlicensed. He clipped the other bike
which had
> > > stopped and crashed. Young, unlicensed rider riding irresponsibly. We've
> > > heard that before. The downside is that this will give more ammunition to
> > > the sportbike detractors. Maybe they need to make sportbikes like
beer: You
> > > must be 21 to participate.
> >
> > In Europe there are restrictions on the power or displacement of your
> > motorcycle for the first few years you ride. They also laugh at you for
> > even thinking you can get a learner's permit at 15.5.
>
> What country are you talking about?
> I had my license when I was 16.
Germany. What country were you in?
Gregory d'Orso
oh ok...
Sounds like the new regulations in France too.. 34 hp I think, for the
first 2 years of riding or something similar... I don't remember the true
figures though.
-- Greg
_____________________________________________________________
Gregory d'Orso do...@bok.net
On 13 Feb 1999, Alan R Zeleznikar wrote:
> In article <Pine.LNX.3.96.99021...@paris.bok.net>, Gregory
> d'Orso <do...@bok.net> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Timberwoof wrote:
> >
> > > In article <7a0l5f$sth$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Norm Ngim"
> > > <nen...@NOSPAMsvpal.org> wrote:
>
> > > In Europe there are restrictions on the power or displacement of your
> > > motorcycle for the first few years you ride. They also laugh at you for
> > > even thinking you can get a learner's permit at 15.5.
> >
> > What country are you talking about?
> > I had my license when I was 16.
>
Gregory d'Orso
On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Timberwoof wrote:
> In article <Pine.LNX.3.96.99021...@paris.bok.net>, Gregory
> d'Orso <do...@bok.net> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Timberwoof wrote:
> >
> > > In article <7a0l5f$sth$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Norm Ngim"
> > > <nen...@NOSPAMsvpal.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I heard from someone who saw the report that the deceased rider had been
> > > > riding for 5 years, but was unlicensed. He clipped the other bike
> which had
> > > > stopped and crashed. Young, unlicensed rider riding irresponsibly. We've
> > > > heard that before. The downside is that this will give more ammunition to
> > > > the sportbike detractors. Maybe they need to make sportbikes like
> beer: You
> > > > must be 21 to participate.
> > >
> > > In Europe there are restrictions on the power or displacement of your
> > > motorcycle for the first few years you ride. They also laugh at you for
> > > even thinking you can get a learner's permit at 15.5.
> >
> > What country are you talking about?
> > I had my license when I was 16.
>
> Germany. What country were you in?
I was in France. I took the test when I was 16, but started
taking lessons (taking about 15 hours of riding lessons is
*mandatory* over there) when I was 15. That was about the age
I had when I started flying lessons too.
Also in France, you can drive a Scooter/moped (50cc max)
when you're 14 only, no license required. A lot of kids on
the road to go to school. Very dangerous IMHO. I think it
would be good to at least take a traffic sign test...
Cycling is a lot more developped over there than here in the
Bay Area. Here I guess we look more like "misfits" ;-)
When I went to high school on my DT80, about half of the school
would gather the bikes in the garage prior to starting classes
:-)
DOCWONG
>Who here had parents who would have let you buy a sportbike (or any STREET
>bike for that matter?) when you were under 18 living at home?
>
>If I had kids there isn't a chance in hell that he/she would ever own a
>street bike while I could say yay or nay. Now dirt bikes? Different story!
>
Yes! I put both my kids on dirt bikes years ago and it's been great!
They quickly learn to respect the bikes and terrain. They get to crash and
fall often enough to experience it with a minimum of serious consequences.
I especially like them getting used to slippery road conditons, sliding, etc.
The other thing essential for the kids is that they do tend to get
"adventureous" like most kids and riding in the dirt let's them do it in a
"safer" manner. At least safer than speeding over their heads on the street.
If and when they want a street bike, I'll be there coaching them with bike to
bike radios as demanded by my very patient wife.
Ride street, ride dirt, ride trials...oh yes, ride well!
Doc
Check out the stuff on the Doc Wong Riding Clinics on my web site!
http://www.docwong.com and let me know what you think or would like to see!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Next Riding Clinics: (Dates and topics subject to change)
Feb 21, 1999 "Cornering Confidence - Turning Simplified"
March 12, 1999 "Basic Suspension Part 2" Friday night 7:15pm
March 14, 1999 "A special surprise"
April 18, 1999 "Smooth Riding - Throttle Control"
May 16, 1999 "Smooth Riding - Lines of Travel" (5 year Anniversary)
June 13, 1999 "Smooth Riding - Steering Input"
July 11, 1999 "Cornering Confidence - Cross Steering"
Aug 22, 1999 "Smooth Riding - Body English"
**Special acknowledge and thanks to Keith Code of California Superbike Schools
for his help and guidence and support. The Doc Wong Street Riding Clinics are
almost all based on his works.
My personal recommendation: Get his books and tapes on the subject, read them
and apply them....your riding will be much better for it!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
Next Doc Wong/Calif. Superbike track session: May 6, 1999 Thursday Laguna
Seca
(Call: (800) 530-3350 to register) October 19, 1999
Sears Point
Next Doc Wong Dirt Riding Clinic: To be announced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
To get the latest announcements on my Riding Clinics:
Send an E-mail to: list...@micapeak.com with:
"Subscribe Doc-Ride YOUR NAME" as the body of the email. Replace "YOUR NAME"
with your name.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Street riding, dual-sport riding, dirt riding, trials riding, side car riding,
now track riding....lots to do, not enough time...gota get to flat trackin
someday.
Recommendation if you ride street: Get a dual-sport bike or dirt bike and
learn how to ride in the dirt where it's always loose. Besides being a blast,
it'll make you a more confident street rider.
The Agency
>
>I don't think Willie Brown ever owned a bicycle!
Only if could have someone else peddle it for him! Plus, his HAT might blow
off!
>Ever been to Amsterdam? They have sidewalks for people like everybody else
>does, plus another sidewalk for bicyclists. At many intersections there
>are traffic lights for bicycles. There are bike racks *everywhere*,
Ever been to Davis?
The Agency
D Lamar
DOCWONG wrote in message <19990215000219...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
>Yes! I put both my kids on dirt bikes years ago and it's been great!
>
================================================================
My kids, boys and girls, rode dirt bikes WITH ME from the time they were old
enough. The ones that still ride are very good riders. None of them chose
to race, but the ride safely and skillfully.
I recommend dirt bikes for anyone. They're great to learn on, and after
many years of riding, I still ride them on occasion.
Don
DOCWONG
>Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 18:56 EST
>I recommend dirt bikes for anyone. They're great to learn on, and after
>many years of riding, I still ride them on occasion.
I like dirt riding as much as street riding. Don't ask me to choose which I
like better, because I can't.
I like the fact that in the dirt, there is a greater variety of conditions that
will challange you. The terrain is usually changing quickly, obstacles present
themselves with delight....
And it gives me a chance to take more risks without as much danger. I get
pretty excited to tackle a trail that is extremely difficult to traverse. If I
don't make it, it'll be there another day for me when my skills get up to it.
Of course when I then ride on the street, the need for speed is more
"feathered" and I'm more conservative as a result.
Then, when the street roads get a bit "enthusiastic" by presenting itself with
potholes, ice, sand, oil, dirt, rivers, etc... it's not so bad.
Even fun in most cases.
Last winter when Gazos Creek got washed out during a Doc Wong Riding Clinic, we
tried to get thru it anyway! It was fun to try as we got the dual sport bikes
thru, but had to turn around. Then we crossed a 50 yard river going to Hwy 1
from Pescadero.....
Now, that's "fun."
This winter when I got my new duck, I had to ride it, even though it was
snowing on Skyline. Had a "hairy" time, but it was worth it....didn't even
drop the new bike! ;-)
Now, that's "fun."
Ride well!
May your roads be without obstacles, the sun shining and the ride great!