bread
A Flock of Nazguls
have corn syrup or other sweeteners added, doesn't taste like cardboard,
and has a bit more shelf life than fresh-baked bread from the bakery?
I'm unfamiliar with local brands (having recently moved here from
Massachusetts) and have been surprised at the number of "all natural"
brands that seem to add tons of sugar. We've found Colombo sourbread to
be pretty good, but its usually too stale to eat before we get more than
halfway into the loaf.
-Roger
Alex Zepeda
> Any recommendations for (common and easily obtained) bread that doesn't
> have corn syrup or other sweeteners added, doesn't taste like cardboard,
> and has a bit more shelf life than fresh-baked bread from the bakery?
I suppose most of the reasonable sour doughs you'd find won't have
sweeteners in them. The loaf of Parisian sitting on my stove doesn't.
Acme and Semifreddi's come to mind if you're looking to deviate from sour
dough. Trader Joe's has par baked Il Fornaio loaves for under $2.
> I'm unfamiliar with local brands (having recently moved here from
> Massachusetts) and have been surprised at the number of "all natural"
> brands that seem to add tons of sugar. We've found Colombo sourbread to
> be pretty good, but its usually too stale to eat before we get more than
> halfway into the loaf.
I did eye a 1/2 pound loaf of Parisian at Safeway the other day. Not sure
that I would want to pay that much for such a small loaf. I like the par
baked loaf concept.
Feel free to cut the loaf in half, and plop it in the freezer. Or do
stuff that works with stale bread, french toast comes to mind.
--
alex
Jeff Lichtman
> have corn syrup or other sweeteners added, doesn't taste like cardboard,
> and has a bit more shelf life than fresh-baked bread from the bakery?
You would probably like some of the Acme breads. Several of their
varieties stay fresh longer than the typical supermarket sourdough, e.g.
regular levain, walnut levain, herb slab and upstairs bread. I can't
give recommendations on where to buy it without knowing where you live -
the big supermarket chains don't carry it, but you can find it at a lot
of smaller stores, produce markets and specialty shops.
--
- Jeff Lichtman
Author, Baseball for Rookies
http://baseball-for-rookies.com/
Tim May
Zepeda <use...@blarf.homeip.net> wrote:
>
> Feel free to cut the loaf in half, and plop it in the freezer. Or do
> stuff that works with stale bread, french toast comes to mind.
>
I'm not sure what people expect of authentic bread, especially French
bread.
When I lived in France in 1963-63, we expected a loaf of French bread
to be gone in on day. We bought bread every day. Between there being 4
in our family, it was just "known" that the bread would do dry/stale by
the second day.
(Bread that is too old still has many uses, as Alex notes above.
Besides French toast, there is stuffing, food for the birds, etc.)
Americans seem to think they can shop once a week at Costco and only
shop for a "spousal unit" of 1.37 people per household, on average.
It's why preservatives of various kinds were invented. Sugar is a
preservative, by the way, just as in jellies and jams.
--Tim May
A Flock of Nazguls
>> Any recommendations for (common and easily obtained) bread that
>> doesn't have corn syrup or other sweeteners added, doesn't taste like
>> cardboard, and has a bit more shelf life than fresh-baked bread from
>> the bakery?
>
>
> You would probably like some of the Acme breads. Several of their
> varieties stay fresh longer than the typical supermarket sourdough, e.g.
> regular levain, walnut levain, herb slab and upstairs bread. I can't
> give recommendations on where to buy it without knowing where you live -
> the big supermarket chains don't carry it, but you can find it at a lot
> of smaller stores, produce markets and specialty shops.
>
Berkeley, so I'm hoping I'll have quite a few options.
We seem to have two modes of bread consumption... "fresh baked" mode,
usually french bread bought explicitly to accompany a particular dinner
or wine & cheese or whatever (and indeed, we make french toast on the
rare chance there are any leftovers - we're bread addicts, screw
Atkins!) and "convenience" mode, with something versatile that can be
used for sandwiches, toast at breakfast, etc. We used to just get
megacorp wheat "balloon bread" for this, then switched to Pepperidge
Farm until we noticed that it was loaded with corn syrup.
I'm looking for something better, for "convenience" mode. I don't have
the time/inclination to go to the store every day, so something that
would work when shopping twice a week would be nice.
The Acme bread sounds like a possibility. Thanks.
-Roger
Karen
Tim May wrote:
> I'm not sure what people expect of authentic bread, especially French
> bread.
>
> When I lived in France in 1963-63, we expected a loaf of French bread
> to be gone in on day. We bought bread every day. Between there being
4
> in our family, it was just "known" that the bread would do dry/stale
by
> the second day.
The year I lived in Norway, my Mom walked to the store every morning
for bread. I think the store was closed on Sundays, though. (can't
remember, it was a long time ago)
Good bread memories.
Karen
Tak Nakamoto
"A Flock of Nazguls" wrote news:iqKdnU_28tJ...@comcast.com...
> Any recommendations for (common and easily obtained) bread that doesn't
> have corn syrup or other sweeteners added, doesn't taste like cardboard,
> and has a bit more shelf life than fresh-baked bread from the bakery?
>
palatable longer than breads like baguettes which are made only with flour,
water, salt and yeast.
If you like olives and olive oil, you might like any of the several types of
olive breads made by some of our local artisan bakeries. We love those and
they do keep well although it is a rare loaf that we manage to save for more
than a couple of days. There are many other choices from the smaller
bakeries and they are widely available in Berkeley. Try going to
Andronico's, Berkeley Bowl or Monterey Market and look at the ingredients
list printed on the bags of bread.
Tak Nakamoto
Julian Macassey
>
>
> The year I lived in Norway, my Mom walked to the store every morning
> for bread. I think the store was closed on Sundays, though. (can't
> remember, it was a long time ago)
In Europe, bread, being a staple is important. It has to
be tasty, it has to fresh.
The US is the home of sliced, wrapped, never fresh,never
stale factory bread. Never confuse the two.
When I lived in Copenhagen, there was a baker on every
corner, from dawn on, they poured bread and pastries from their
ovens.
Last year when I was there with my girlfriend, we often
popped into a baker for a breakfast of rolls, pastries and
coffee.
> Good bread memories.
Good bread gives good memories.
I recall buying fresh, warm bread in France, Holand and
Denmark. Someone else fetched the bread in Norway and Sweden.
Finally, there are two staples for the working man. Items
which are important as to their quality and freshness - Beer and
Bread. How did that give birth to Wonder Bread and Miller Light?
--
This is Scotland. Drinking is what we do. It's both our national
hobby and our national sport. - Mike Holmes
Max Hauser
Berkeley, and a couple of secondary bakeries include one in Mountain View
that sells briskly at the Sunday Famer's Market downtown.)
The Sullivans opening their bakery ca. 1983 at Cedar and San Pablo in the
corner lot that was the Honda motorcycle dealership for decades prior, but
became home to Acme and, slightly earlier, Kermit Lunch wines (moving south
from its home in Albany) and, soon after, Café Fanny (little Chez Panisse
spin-off). I was living nearby, and I met the sullivans as they set up
their bakery. (Recent UCB grads then.) By the way, ba.food was active
then, and carried some discussion of Acme in the 1980s.
Before Acme, people queued up for the extraordinary baguettes at the cheese
board, a place famous also for outstanding cheese selection and painful
political correctness. (Formerly that site by the way had been Mattke's
Pharmacy I think -- one of many Berkeley pharmacies with 19th-century
origins and soda fountains, destroyed for the "Gourmet Ghetto" development
of the 1970s.) Acme's sourdough baguettes may have lacked a few ppm of
crust crunch or a few percent of inside tenderness of the Cheese Board's,
but were virtually as good. Acme of course has a full range of breads, many
very crusty. Acme also supplies Bay Area restaurants including Manresa in
Los Gatos and I believe Chez Panisse in Berkeley and many others.
Nowadays there is a whole young artisanal bread movement in the United
States and when you read about it online, they often point to Acme Bread as
an enterprise that helped popularize and legitimize the idea.
Put in a ziplock bag and chilled it in a refrigerator, Acme sourdough or
Walnut Levain or olive bread will last a week, or two.
"A Flock of Nazguls" in news:iqKdnU_28tJ...@comcast.com...
> Any recommendations for (common and easily obtained) bread that
> doesn't have corn syrup or other sweeteners added, doesn't taste
> like cardboard, and has a bit more shelf life than fresh-baked bread
> from the bakery?
>
> I'm unfamiliar with local brands (having recently moved here from
> Massachusetts) ...
>
> -Roger
By the way, a co-worker newly arrived from Netherlands some years ago
complained "You do not have breads in this country. I have looked in the
supermarkets and they have all this light fluffy stuff. Where can I get
breads with some texture, and variety?" His family was later happy with
Acme if I remember.
Steve Pope
> Before Acme, people queued up for the extraordinary baguettes
> at the cheese board, a place famous also for outstanding cheese
> selection and painful political correctness. (Formerly that
> site by the way had been Mattke's Pharmacy I think -- one of many
> Berkeley pharmacies with 19th-century origins and soda fountains,
> destroyed for the "Gourmet Ghetto" development of the 1970s.)
> Acme's sourdough baguettes may have lacked a few ppm of crust
> crunch or a few percent of inside tenderness of the Cheese
> Board's, but were virtually as good. Acme of course has a full
> range of breads, many very crusty. Acme also supplies Bay Area
> restaurants including Manresa in Los Gatos and I believe Chez
> Panisse in Berkeley and many others.
Acme does, or at least used to, sell a product called "Upstairs
Bread", a reference to it being the same product delivered to
Chez Panisse Cafe.
Come to think of it, I haven't seen it recently.
Steve
Al Eisner
> > Any recommendations for (common and easily obtained) bread that doesn't
> > have corn syrup or other sweeteners added, doesn't taste like cardboard,
> > and has a bit more shelf life than fresh-baked bread from the bakery?
>
> You would probably like some of the Acme breads. Several of their
> varieties stay fresh longer than the typical supermarket sourdough, e.g.
> regular levain, walnut levain, herb slab and upstairs bread. I can't
> give recommendations on where to buy it without knowing where you live -
> the big supermarket chains don't carry it, but you can find it at a lot
> of smaller stores, produce markets and specialty shops.
Even better than Acme in staying power were a variety of "country
breads" from Panorama -- I used to be able to get them in my local
area, but haven't seen them in several years. The bag came with
a suggestion for wrapping the loaf in a towel and sprinking water
on it, and that seemed to work well.
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
ll
> Berkeley, so I'm hoping I'll have quite a few options.
You have _huge_ options in Berkeley. Most of the best
bakeries are headquartered in or near Berkeley, e.g.,
Acme, Grace, Metropolis, and more. There are also
small, independent bakeries, e.g., Nabolom, a half block
off of College.
> I'm unfamiliar with local brands (having recently moved here
This may call for an experiment involving lots of test
samples. Get busy!
Christine Dabney
There is also Berkeley Bowl, and Monterey Market.
Christine
Dennis
shelf life. It should only be kept in a paper bag. Plastic bags destroy
the crust.
Dennis
Mark Lipton
> Nowadays there is a whole young artisanal bread movement in the United
> States and when you read about it online, they often point to Acme Bread as
> an enterprise that helped popularize and legitimize the idea.
Interesting that Acme would be the one cited, since Semifreddi (e.g.)
preceeded them by a few years in the East Bay. Did Acme get wider
distribution or something? BTW, a major culinary divide in our
household concerns our favorite sourdough baguette: my wife prefers
Semifreddi whereas I favor Acme. The baby hasn't taken sides... yet.
It actually reminds me of the Colombo vs. Toscana vs. Larraburu debates
of yesteryear.
>
> Put in a ziplock bag and chilled it in a refrigerator, Acme sourdough or
> Walnut Levain or olive bread will last a week, or two.
Eek! As a recovering baker, I must also insist that the bread be
frozen, not refrigerated. Refrigeration actually speeds up the process
of going stale.
Mark Lipton
Leila
>Max Hauser wrote:
>> Nowadays there is a whole young artisanal bread movement in the
United
>> States and when you read about it online, they often point to Acme
Bread as
>> an enterprise that helped popularize and legitimize the idea.
>
>Interesting that Acme would be the one cited, since Semifreddi (e.g.)
>preceeded them by a few years in the East Bay. Did Acme get wider
>distribution or something?
Acme bread is just better. Semifreddi tries, and their batards are
acceptable, but they don't have the texture of Acme breads.
Leila
Max Hauser
> Max Hauser wrote:
>
>> Nowadays there is a whole young artisanal bread movement in the United
>> States and when you read
>> about it online, they often point to Acme Bread as an enterprise that
>> helped popularize and legitimize the idea.
>
> Interesting that Acme would be the one cited, since
> Semifreddi (e.g.) preceeded them by a few years in the
> East Bay. Did Acme get wider distribution or something?
Hi Mark. Can you explain your basis for that date assertion? Steven and
Susan Sullivan opened Acme in that corner location in 1983 (1601 San Pablo
Avenue, I believe -- it must be, because 1600 is Cedar, and odd addresses
are on the hill sides of north-south Berkeley avenues). (There's a story in
that but I'll skip it now.) As I mentioned, I met them at the time. (Acme
even got a Goines poster ten years later on the anniversary I believe.) On
the other hand, media articles about Semifreddi's that I've seen online say
that it opened in 1984 in Kensington, and that the original partners sold it
in 1987 (to the current owners I think).
Separately and setting aside the quirk of meeting the Sullivans (who still
operated Acme when I last asked in MV), during the 1980s I personally
noticed Acme bread appearing here and there, somewhat before Semifreddi's,
so I personally guessed that Semifreddi's was a later arrival. But that was
just impressionistic. Only lately did I read histories of the two firms and
thus the exact dates.
When I read (a while ago) about artisanal baking, various much younger
firms, and general articles, pointed out Acme as an example to them. As I
said, they referred to it in a pioneering role.
>> Put in a ziplock bag and chilled it in a refrigerator, Acme sourdough or
>> Walnut Levain or olive bread
>> will last a week, or two.
>
> Eek! ... Refrigeration actually speeds up the process of going stale.
Well, y'all skeptics, you must not be buying enough Acme bread to test out
all these fine theories of your'n. The Walnut Levain is especially hardy
and resilient; its dark, rustic crust does not soften so easily as some weak
loaves. I have extensive trial data. ("Taste just like that great bread
from Safeway" indeed.) Of course there are reheating strategies to
re-crispen a slightly aged crust but without any such intervention, just
now, the remains of a loaf purchased Sunday 1-May-05, sliced and served with
fresh sweet butter, hard smoked salmon (peppered), sharp cheese and some
fresh raw vegetables was very good. (As Clive Coates says, very good
indeed.)
Cheers -- Max
Julian Macassey
> Max Hauser wrote:
>
>> Nowadays there is a whole young artisanal bread movement in the United
>> States and when you read about it online, they often point to Acme Bread as
>> an enterprise that helped popularize and legitimize the idea.
>
> Interesting that Acme would be the one cited, since Semifreddi (e.g.)
> preceeded them by a few years in the East Bay. Did Acme get wider
> distribution or something?
Acme is considered a pioneer and is mentioned in
Elizabeth David's book on bread.
>
> Eek! As a recovering baker, I must also insist that the bread be
> frozen, not refrigerated. Refrigeration actually speeds up the process
> of going stale.
This is true and is also mentioned in the book noted
above.
--
"The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all
freedom." - Justice William O. Douglas
Jo Ann Malina
> And it will taste just like that great bread from safeway. Bread has a
> shelf life. It should only be kept in a paper bag. Plastic bags destroy
> the crust.
Why does Safeway bread (and other in-store bakery breads) taste so
bitter? Do they pump the dough full of conditioners and leaveners to
get a quick, voluminous rise?
It's true about the plastic. I got a loaf of Columbo French not long
ago. It still had a paper wrapper but that was put inside a plastic
bag, and it was already moldy when I got it.
--
Jo Ann Malina, make spamthis best to find my address
Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.
Proverbs 9:17
Icono Clast
>Karen wrote:
>>Good bread memories.
>
> Good bread gives good memories.
>
> I recall buying fresh, warm bread in France, Holand and
> Denmark. Someone else fetched the bread in Norway and Sweden.
A sentence from my Experiences in Yugoslavia
< http://geocities.com/iconoc/Articles/Yugo.html >
"They gave me tomatoes, boiled potatoes, coffee, and bread (bread!
hot, freshly-baked, right out of the oven! Superb!)."
___________________________________________________________________
A San Francisco gourmand: "You serve it, I'll eat it!"
< http://geocities.com/dancefest/ >-< http://geocities.com/iconoc/ >
ICQ: < http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 > ---> IClast at SFbay Net
notbob
> It's true about the plastic. I got a loaf of Columbo French not long
> ago. It still had a paper wrapper but that was put inside a plastic
> bag, and it was already moldy when I got it.
The trick is to find a restaurant that carries the authentic Columbus
Fisherman's Wharf SF sourdough rounds. It's not the same as the stuff
on the shelves. It's still made from the original starter and has
that true SF yeast strain flavor. It has an excellent crust and will
keep it even if frozen or kept in a plastic bag for freshness. The
restaurant grade stuff is the real deal and puts both Yak-me and
Semi-Tasteless to shame. I suspect Acme, S/F, and LaBrea are not true
SF yeast sourdoughs. If they are, they're pathetic in comparison. I
get mine at Strizzi's, a local chain in the Tri-Valley.
nb
Steve Pope
>Why does Safeway bread (and other in-store bakery breads) taste so
>bitter?
I've bought Safeway sourdough bread that contained citric acid
to make it taste sourer.
S.
ll
> I got a loaf of Columbo French not long ago. It still had
> a paper wrapper but that was put inside a plastic bag,
> and it was already moldy when I got it.
A while back I was at one of the local Alb-Safe's and
was checking out one of their in-house baked breads.
A bakery dept. worker walked by and saw me puzzling over
the breads and asked if she could help. I explained that
I was puzzled because the _same_ kind of bread was packaged
in two different ways. She explained that the loaves that
were baked today are in paper bags. The (same kind of bread)
loaves that were baked yesterday are in plastic bags that are
then placed in a paper bag. I thanked her profusely for the
information.
Mark Lipton
> Hi Mark. Can you explain your basis for that date assertion? Steven and
> Susan Sullivan opened Acme in that corner location in 1983 (1601 San Pablo
> Avenue, I believe -- it must be, because 1600 is Cedar, and odd addresses
> are on the hill sides of north-south Berkeley avenues). (There's a story in
> that but I'll skip it now.) As I mentioned, I met them at the time. (Acme
> even got a Goines poster ten years later on the anniversary I believe.) On
> the other hand, media articles about Semifreddi's that I've seen online say
> that it opened in 1984 in Kensington, and that the original partners sold it
> in 1987 (to the current owners I think).
My bad, Max. I was thinking of the current Semifreddi bag, which (as I
recalled it) says "Semifreddi turns 25." Upon rechecking today, it says
"...20" and cites 1984 as their start date -- in accord with what you
said. What can I say? Early senility, no doubt. I also agree with
Leila's comment about Acme vs. Semifreddi, but as we all know it's not
always quality that leads to popularity (Betamax anyone? :P)
>
> Well, y'all skeptics, you must not be buying enough Acme bread to test out
> all these fine theories of your'n. The Walnut Levain is especially hardy
> and resilient; its dark, rustic crust does not soften so easily as some weak
> loaves. I have extensive trial data. ("Taste just like that great bread
> from Safeway" indeed.) Of course there are reheating strategies to
> re-crispen a slightly aged crust but without any such intervention, just
> now, the remains of a loaf purchased Sunday 1-May-05, sliced and served with
> fresh sweet butter, hard smoked salmon (peppered), sharp cheese and some
> fresh raw vegetables was very good. (As Clive Coates says, very good
> indeed.)
It's simply a matter of chemistry, Max ;-) The crust is very
dehydrated, a result of the high temperature at which the loaf is baked.
Meanwhile, the chewy interior is relatively hydrated because the
moisture inside hasn't evaporated. With time, however, the moisture
from the interior finds its way to the crust, whereupon the crust grows
softer at the expense of the tenderness of the interior. It's just the
bread coming to equilibrium. Your Walnut Levain may show fewer signs of
it than a French baguette, but the principle is the same.
Mark Lipton
Bremer
"A Flock of Nazguls" <ar...@sphinctank.com> wrote in message
news:iqKdnU_28tJ...@comcast.com...
Jo Ann Malina
> Names to watch for in the boutique bread section of the market:
>
> Grace
> Kelly
> Bakers of Paris
> Alfaro's
> Acme
>
> All different... all good. You'll have to look at the ingredients if
> you're being real fussy. Not many breads in this section have
> sweetners, unless you're buying a sweet bread.
> As for freshness, bread's bread. It's going to die on you in a day
> unless it's loaded with some kind of preservatives (sourdough has a
> real reputation for this), so buy small, or freeze part--or learn to
> make lots of croutons.
> Several of the boutique bakeries are making very small loaves these
> days. Alfaro's makes small sourdough loaves of a couple types, runs
> about a buck and a half and two people will eat it all in a day,
> easily. Good size for four or five sandwiches. Buy two, freeze one. I
> have a small French baguette on my counter right now from Bakers of
> Paris--seventy-nine cents. Not a hell of a lot bigger than a hero
> roll, but it's a baguette.
Bakers of Paris is my favorite. Draeger's carries it, in fact they
use it for some of their sandwiches at the deli.
--
Jo Ann Malina, make spamthis best to find my address
Honest bread is very well -- it's the butter that makes the temptation.
-- Douglas Jerrold, _The Catspaw_
Michael Sierchio
> Acme bread is just better.
You beat me to it. Neither makes an acceptable baguette, IMO. Nothing
that would pass muster in Paris, whereas I find Acme's pain au levain to
be better than what the Poilane families produce.