Freddie's Sandwiches - North Beach

[Ciccio]

Last week, I had a sandwich from Freddie’s. Sure, a good number of
you are wondering who/what is Freddie’s? I’m sure most of you who
think you know North Beach, have never heard of Freddie’s. That’s no
surprise, as it very nondescript. Indeed, I’ve known transplants who
lived in North Beach for years and never heard of Freddie’s, much less
got a sandwich there.

Freddie’s is one of the places where I have a spiritual food
experience. Not that the sandwiches are sublime, as you can probably
get as good elsewhere, albeit Freddie’s are damn good. It’s that
besides some of my buddies, some of our elders went to Francisco Jr.
High(now, middle school) across the street, along with their
classmates including Joe D(imaggio). Freddie’s has been there for
almost a hundred years. The owners have changed, but Freddie’s never
has. So, when I walk through its door, I am connected with the North
Beach ghosts of the past.

Sure, there are places where us natives/locals, who got the hell outta
Dodge, return to meet. And we will never divulge them. Then there are
those long-time places that we share, because we know no way
transplant yuppies could ever ruin them. Freddie’s is such a place.

So, if you are in the area of Francisco and Stockton, want a good,
belly buster sandwich, for a cheap price, at a true San Francisco
tradition, stop in at Freddie’s. It has all the oft found deli meats,
breads, and sides. I had, of course, as I have forever, an Italian
combo. Plan on having it to go, as seating is scant.

Ciccio

[Peter Lawrence]

On 4/20/13 1:12 AM, Ciccio wrote:
>
> Sure, there are places where us natives/locals, who got the hell outta
> Dodge, return to meet. And we will never divulge them. Then there are
> those long-time places that we share, because we know no way

> transplant yuppies could ever ruin them. Freddie�s is such a place.

>
> So, if you are in the area of Francisco and Stockton, want a good,
> belly buster sandwich, for a cheap price, at a true San Francisco

> tradition, stop in at Freddie�s. It has all the oft found deli meats,

> breads, and sides. I had, of course, as I have forever, an Italian
> combo. Plan on having it to go, as seating is scant.

They've been around since 1926, but they have embraced the new century with
a nice clean and functional website, http://freddiessandwiches.net/ (why
can't all restaurant websites be designed as so nicely?) and the ability to
even order your sandwiches from your iPhone or Android smartphone (using the
OrderAhead app).

By the way, have you ever had their pastrami sandwich, if so, how was it?


- Peter

[sf]

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 01:12:01 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio
<franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> So, if you are in the area of Francisco and Stockton, want a good,
> belly buster sandwich, for a cheap price, at a true San Francisco
> tradition, stop in at Freddie’s. It has all the oft found deli meats,
> breads, and sides. I had, of course, as I have forever, an Italian
> combo. Plan on having it to go, as seating is scant.

BTW: I was in the Lucca on Valencia yesterday and noticed they have
hot Calabrese sausage in their deli case. Don't know who makes it,
maybe they do... you can always call and ask if you're interested.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

[Mort]

I second that! Their calabrese is the real thing, and it's getting
harder and harder to find.

[Don Martinich]

In article <kkueob$b2v$1...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:

> On 4/20/13 1:12 AM, Ciccio wrote:
> >
> > Sure, there are places where us natives/locals, who got the hell outta
> > Dodge, return to meet. And we will never divulge them. Then there are
> > those long-time places that we share, because we know no way

> > transplant yuppies could ever ruin them. Freddie零 is such a place.

> >
> > So, if you are in the area of Francisco and Stockton, want a good,
> > belly buster sandwich, for a cheap price, at a true San Francisco

> > tradition, stop in at Freddie零. It has all the oft found deli meats,

> > breads, and sides. I had, of course, as I have forever, an Italian
> > combo. Plan on having it to go, as seating is scant.
>
> They've been around since 1926, but they have embraced the new century with
> a nice clean and functional website, http://freddiessandwiches.net/ (why
> can't all restaurant websites be designed as so nicely?) and the ability to
> even order your sandwiches from your iPhone or Android smartphone (using the
> OrderAhead app).
>
> By the way, have you ever had their pastrami sandwich, if so, how was it?
>
>
> - Peter

Thanks for the URL Peter. Freddie's does have good prices. But, it looks
like, if I want a sandwich on a traditional North Beach crusty Italian
roll, I'll still have to go to Molinari's.

D.M.

[Tim May]

Reading this thread, I am reminded of "New York Deli" in Sunnyvale
(connected with New York Sausage, widely available in South Bay/Santa
Cruz supermarkets, and with Frankie, Johnny, and Luigi Too" and
Nicolino's...several ba.food threads have discussed this).

My years at the NY Deli, 1975-79 were memorable. Many lunches with my
co-workers. Then, upon my return from the raininess of Oregon in 1982,
the old place was torn down. Replaced by something forgettable called
"The Fish House." (I ate there once, about 20 years ago. I don't need
to pay $20, the then-price, for what Mrs. Paul's does better out of the
ice box.)

What's happened to good sandwich places? Togo's was once good, in the
70s, with thickly-piled meats. Now, accountants have calibrated the
scales to dole out


--
Tim May

[Ciccio]

As you may have gathered from my post, going there for me isn't just
about getting a good sandwich, but the whole phenomenon. I'm sure
sometime in my life I may have called ahead, not, however, during the
past 25 years. For me to do so, would be like running into church and
grabbing the Eucharist without the mass.

> By the way, have you ever had their pastrami sandwich,

Nope.

Ciccio

[Ciccio]

On Apr 20, 11:12 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

> BTW:  I was in the Lucca on Valencia yesterday and noticed they have
> hot Calabrese sausage in their deli case.  Don't know who makes it,
> maybe they do... you can always call and ask if you're interested.

Thanks for the tip. Next time I'm in the area, I'll pop in and give it
a try. One never knows when there will be a food find. For example, my
cousin, who gives me my share of the Badalamente stash, told me to
also try the Calabrese sausage from Diablo Foods in Lafayette, which
they make it there. I did, and I found it to be pretty good. When I'm
in that area again, I'll buy it again.

Ciccio

[Ciccio]

On Apr 20, 7:00 pm, Don Martinich <dmartin...@att.net> wrote:
> In article <kkueob$b2...@dont-email.me>,

>  Peter Lawrence <hummb...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4/20/13 1:12 AM, Ciccio wrote:
>
> > > Sure, there are places where us natives/locals, who got the hell outta
> > > Dodge, return to meet. And we will never divulge them. Then there are
> > > those long-time places that we share, because we know no way

> > > transplant yuppies could ever ruin them. Freddie¹s is such a place.

>
> > > So, if you are in the area of Francisco and Stockton, want a good,
> > > belly buster sandwich, for a cheap price, at a true San Francisco

> > > tradition, stop in at Freddie¹s. It has all the oft found deli meats,

> > > breads, and sides. I had, of course, as I have forever, an Italian
> > > combo.  Plan on having it to go, as seating is scant.
>
> > They've been around since 1926, but they have embraced the new century with
> > a nice clean and functional website,http://freddiessandwiches.net/(why
> > can't all restaurant websites be designed as so nicely?) and the ability to
> > even order your sandwiches from your iPhone or Android smartphone (using the
> > OrderAhead app).
>
> > By the way, have you ever had their pastrami sandwich, if so, how was it?
>
> > - Peter
>
> Thanks for the URL Peter. Freddie's does have good prices. But, it looks
> like, if I want a sandwich on a traditional North Beach crusty Italian
> roll, I'll still have to go to Molinari's.

Well then, if go to Freddie's give the sour dough hard roll a try. Of
course, if you were to say Molinari to some older North Beachers,
inevitably you'd get their lament that Molinari is second rate to the
gone Panelli Brothers deli. Or it will be how the sandwiches, at the
long gone, Mike's pool hall, were great. Then they will reluctantly
admit "Whadda you gonna do? What's gone is gone." That said, I like
Molinari's too.

[Ciccio]

On Apr 21, 12:23 am, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:

> What's happened to good sandwich places? Togo's was once good, in the
> 70s, with thickly-piled meats. Now, accountants have calibrated the
> scales to dole out

And that's for fast food sandwiches (to go,togo.) It's one thing to
get hosed for a sandwich at a "sit-down" restaurant, because of the
white table cloths, the service, the view, etc. But there are so many
fast-food sandwich joints/delis that are ripoffs.

Ciccio

[James Silverton]

I remember hearing a radio interview of the general manager of a steak
house chain who indicated that they considered the size right when less
than something like 5% complained about it.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

[Steve Pope]

Speaking of traditional Italian places, I notice that Caffe Mediterraneum
in Berkeley has a sign up stating that they are where the caffe latte
was invented -- which is, so far as I know, a true claim.

But they go further and claim that the individual who did so, having
arrived here in the 1950's, was the "first Italian-trained barista
in the Bay Area". I figure that part has got to be false, but do
not offhand know of a counterexample that disproves it.

Steve

[sf]

YW! Have you tried any other product at Diablo Foods? If so, what
did you think? Lafayett is a bit far for me, even if I was already on
that side of the Bay (in Fremont) visiting son & family, so I'd need a
good reason to go.

[Ciccio]

Maybe if their claims are limited to Berkeley, i.e., they were the
first IN BERKELEY to serve Caffe Latte, and had the first Italian
trained barista IN BERKELEY. Right off the bat, Caffe Trieste in North
Beach is about as old, older as for espresso, not just regular coffee,
and it had both of those items from when they started, especially the
latter, as the original owner and the guys who made the espresso
drinks were Italians.

Ciccio

[Steve Pope]

Right, Trieste certainly had Italian baristi longer ago than Mediterraneum
can claim. As for the invention of the latte, I'm not sure, but the
consensus seems to be it was invented (or, at least named and
popularized) at Caffe Med. It is still not a very common coffee
drink in Italy, near as I can tell.

Steve

[Ciccio]

On Apr 21, 12:52 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

> YW!  Have you tried any other product at Diablo Foods?  If so, what
> did you think?  Lafayett is a bit far for me, even if I was already on
> that side of the Bay (in Fremont) visiting son & family, so I'd need a
> good reason to go.

Hmmm. Diablo Foods to me is like combining Andronico's and Whole Foods
into a neighborhood market that is very customer oriented. It is
definitely more expensive than Safeway, probably 20-25% more. I
wouldn't make a special trip from Fremont. I live much closer to it
than Fremont and I don't go unless I happen to be in the Lafayette
area.

I've had their deli sandwiches several times and they were pretty
good. The guy told me they make/prepare much of their own lunch meat.
I've had their other meats indirectly, as my cousin swears by Diablo
Foods. So via him, I've had their steaks, tri-tips, chops, and
sausages. All were very good. My cousin is probably like their typical
patron. He lives in Lafayette, has not been on bus in over 50 years,
and has never been on a BART train. He is demanding, knows what he
wants and is willing to pay for it. I think that gives you the idea.

Ciccio

[evergene]

Ciccio wrote:

[...]

>Well then, if go to Freddie's give the sour dough hard roll a try. Of
>course, if you were to say Molinari to some older North Beachers,
>inevitably you'd get their lament that Molinari is second rate to the
>gone Panelli Brothers deli. Or it will be how the sandwiches, at the
>long gone, Mike's pool hall, were great. Then they will reluctantly
>admit "Whadda you gonna do? What's gone is gone." That said, I like
>Molinari's too.

Thanks for posting about Freddie's -- it reminded me of Liguria Bakery
and all those other wonderful North Beach institutions.

[Ciccio]

Oh man, Liguria, there is only one word, and has been for many
decades...focaccia. You might be able to get a sandwich as good as
Freddie's, elsewhere in the BA, but no way you're going to get
focaccia as good as at Liguria's. Man, when I was a kid, a big slice,
like maybe a whole sheet was, at most, 25 cents. Then, with some
change, if we collected enough empty soda bottles , get an ice cream
cone across the street. Talk about carbs and calories! Of course,
the difference being, back then, we'd easily work all that off at the
Salesians Boys Club (now Boys and Girls Club)down the street.

Ciccio

[sf]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio
<franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Apr 21, 12:52�pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> > YW! �Have you tried any other product at Diablo Foods? �If so, what
> > did you think? �Lafayett is a bit far for me, even if I was already on
> > that side of the Bay (in Fremont) visiting son & family, so I'd need a
> > good reason to go.
>
> Hmmm. Diablo Foods to me is like combining Andronico's and Whole Foods
> into a neighborhood market that is very customer oriented. It is
> definitely more expensive than Safeway, probably 20-25% more. I
> wouldn't make a special trip from Fremont. I live much closer to it
> than Fremont and I don't go unless I happen to be in the Lafayette
> area.

Thanks, sounds like a good place to keep in mind and drop by if I am
ever in the neighborhood (if I have a cooler in the car).

>
> I've had their deli sandwiches several times and they were pretty
> good. The guy told me they make/prepare much of their own lunch meat.
> I've had their other meats indirectly, as my cousin swears by Diablo
> Foods. So via him, I've had their steaks, tri-tips, chops, and
> sausages. All were very good. My cousin is probably like their typical
> patron. He lives in Lafayette, has not been on bus in over 50 years,
> and has never been on a BART train. He is demanding, knows what he
> wants and is willing to pay for it. I think that gives you the idea.
>

It does, thanks.

[sf]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio
<franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> You might be able to get a sandwich as good as
> Freddie's, elsewhere in the BA, but no way you're going to get
> focaccia as good as at Liguria's.

You can say that again! My mouth waters every time I think about
them. On a good day (which are few and far between), I can equal
their focaccia when making it at home - but I've never been able to do
any better. Some things are just meant to be and buying my focaccia
from Liguria is one of them.

>Man, when I was a kid, a big slice,
> like maybe a whole sheet was, at most, 25 cents.

I remember the 50� piece, came here too late to experience 25�. I
also remember living near the corner of Hyde at Green, so I could
easily walk down the hill to Liguria. Those were the days, my friend!

[Christine Dabney]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio
<franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

>Hmmm. Diablo Foods to me is like combining Andronico's and Whole Foods
>into a neighborhood market that is very customer oriented. It is
>definitely more expensive than Safeway, probably 20-25% more.

That is also where Bill Fujimoto went after he split from his family
at Monterey Market in Berkeley. Or at least that was the last I
heard. Not sure if he is there anymore though.. He was taking charge
of their produce section, from what I heard.

Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com

[Christine Dabney]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 16:17:55 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

>Thanks, sounds like a good place to keep in mind and drop by if I am
>ever in the neighborhood (if I have a cooler in the car).
>>

We can make a trip over there on our Berkeley/East bay trip.

Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com

[evergene]

sf wrote:

[...]

>You can say that again! My mouth waters every time I think about
>them. On a good day (which are few and far between), I can equal
>their focaccia when making it at home - but I've never been able to do
>any better. Some things are just meant to be and buying my focaccia
>from Liguria is one of them.

Lucca Ravioli on Valencia sells Liguria Bakery's focaccia.

[Ciccio]

On Apr 21, 4:29 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

> I remember the 50¢ piece, came here too late to experience 25¢.  I
> also remember living near the corner of Hyde at Green, so I could
> easily walk down the hill to Liguria.  Those were the days, my friend!

Oh, you lived on that side of the hill. And you were just a block, or
so away, from (the original) Swensens. Did you go to Marina or Gal?
Oh, wait a minute. Heh. the cousin I just referred to, grew up a few
blocks the other way at Hyde and Washington and he, like all of us,
took the bus back then.

And to show that it wasn't just Italian corner stores with cheap
prices back then, I would buy char siu bao (Chinese pork buns) for 10
cents each. And they weren't stingy with the pork in the middle, like
now.

Ciccio

[Don Martinich]

In article
<7c7d197a-ce94-4861...@ot10g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Apr 20, 7:00 pm, Don Martinich <dmartin...@att.net> wrote:
> > In article <kkueob$b2...@dont-email.me>,
> >  Peter Lawrence <hummb...@aol.com> wrote:

> >
> > > On 4/20/13 1:12 AM, Ciccio wrote:
> >
> > > > Sure, there are places where us natives/locals, who got the hell outta
> > > > Dodge, return to meet. And we will never divulge them. Then there are
> > > > those long-time places that we share, because we know no way

> > > > transplant yuppies could ever ruin them. Freddieąs is such a place.

> >
> > > > So, if you are in the area of Francisco and Stockton, want a good,
> > > > belly buster sandwich, for a cheap price, at a true San Francisco

> > > > tradition, stop in at Freddieąs. It has all the oft found deli meats,

> > > > breads, and sides. I had, of course, as I have forever, an Italian
> > > > combo.  Plan on having it to go, as seating is scant.
> >
> > > They've been around since 1926, but they have embraced the new century
> > > with
> > > a nice clean and functional website,http://freddiessandwiches.net/(why
> > > can't all restaurant websites be designed as so nicely?) and the ability
> > > to
> > > even order your sandwiches from your iPhone or Android smartphone (using
> > > the
> > > OrderAhead app).
> >
> > > By the way, have you ever had their pastrami sandwich, if so, how was it?
> >
> > > - Peter
> >
> > Thanks for the URL Peter. Freddie's does have good prices. But, it looks
> > like, if I want a sandwich on a traditional North Beach crusty Italian
> > roll, I'll still have to go to Molinari's.
>
> Well then, if go to Freddie's give the sour dough hard roll a try. Of
> course, if you were to say Molinari to some older North Beachers,
> inevitably you'd get their lament that Molinari is second rate to the
> gone Panelli Brothers deli. Or it will be how the sandwiches, at the
> long gone, Mike's pool hall, were great. Then they will reluctantly
> admit "Whadda you gonna do? What's gone is gone." That said, I like
> Molinari's too.

I grew up eating SF sourdough bread and loved it but I prefer Italian
sandwiches on those crisp crust 'sweet' dough rolls that used to be
common around North Beach. Molinari's still had them when I was there
last. Back in the 60's, I used to get my sandwiches at the Napoli Market
on Stockton at lunch time. In the evening or late at night, it was
always Mike's Pool Hall of course. I also liked his minestrone and osso
bucco. And I liked the calamari at Lupo's when they were one of very few
places that served it. Time have changed!

D.M.

[Steve Pope]

evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:

>Lucca Ravioli on Valencia sells Liguria Bakery's focaccia.

Good to know, thanks.

Steve

[Ciccio]

On Apr 21, 6:58 pm, Don Martinich <dmartin...@att.net> wrote:

> I grew up eating SF sourdough bread and loved it but I prefer Italian
> sandwiches on those crisp crust 'sweet' dough rolls that used to be
> common around North Beach. Molinari's still had them when I was there
> last. Back in the 60's, I used to get my sandwiches at the Napoli Market
> on Stockton at lunch time. In the evening or late at night, it was
> always Mike's Pool Hall of course. I also liked his minestrone and osso
> bucco. And I liked the calamari at Lupo's when they were one of very few
> places that served it. Time have changed!

Oh, like I posted earlier I like Molinari's.

And if there was any doubt that there was AMERICAN with us Italian-
American kids, we would by-pass the Italian delis to hangout and eat
at the drive-ins in North Beach like Tic Tock, Ott's, the burger joint
Clown Alley and that hole-in-the-wall malt shop on Stockton St, where
many of us boys got our first eyeful of girlie magazines. In
retrospect, it was that we took those fantastic Italian eateries for
granted...KIDS!Sheesh!

Ciccio

[Tim May]

On 2013-04-21 22:48:19 +0000, Ciccio said:
> cone across the street. Talk about carbs and calories! Of course,
> the difference being, back then, we'd easily work all that off at the
> Salesians Boys Club (now Boys and Girls Club)down the street.

Didn't the court ordered that changed to "Salesians Siblings, Gays, and
Transgenders Club"?

Wonderful to see the Boy Scounts eviscerated under rulings to let their
adult leaders be homosexuals and to turn "camp nights" into gay
recruitment nights

The liberal Dems will cluck, but I'll sure bet they think four times
about letting their sons join the Gay Scouts of Ameria.

(The girls were already a lost cause. Too many decades of stories of
how girls became "sisters" and "Friends of Sappho" at GSA lesbian
training centers.)

--
Tim May

[Tim May]

The dirt people have taken over the economy.

Nowadays, I expect most sandwich clerks to be chewing gum, be covered
in tatooes and piercings, and charge $6.99 for a limp, flat, tasteless
sandwich.

Oh, and have a "Tips Are Appreciated" jar for the marks to toss a
dollar per sandwich into.

Some day 60 million or more dirts will have to be dealt with. This
can't go on for the next several decades.

--
Tim May

[sf]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 17:39:50 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio
<franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Apr 21, 4:29 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I remember the 50¢ piece, came here too late to experience 25¢.  I
> > also remember living near the corner of Hyde at Green, so I could
> > easily walk down the hill to Liguria.  Those were the days, my friend!
>
> Oh, you lived on that side of the hill. And you were just a block, or
> so away, from (the original) Swensens. Did you go to Marina or Gal?

I'm a Mission girl. I lived there after I graduated from SFSU.... but
I did take my little brother there quite often when he and my mother
still lived in the City.

> Oh, wait a minute. Heh. the cousin I just referred to, grew up a few
> blocks the other way at Hyde and Washington and he, like all of us,
> took the bus back then.

I was just two (maybe 1.5) blocks away from the original location of
Alfred's, on the N. Beach side of the hill with a view of Coit
tower... not a great view, but you could see it through the living
room window if you stood enough to it.

>
> And to show that it wasn't just Italian corner stores with cheap
> prices back then, I would buy char siu bao (Chinese pork buns) for 10
> cents each. And they weren't stingy with the pork in the middle, like
> now.
>

Yes. My favorite place for char siu bao was on Washington, half a
block up the hill from Grant on the right side... don't ask me what it
was called, because I don't think I ever knew. I just knew where it
was located and that's where I bought them. That particular type of
steamed bun (smooth top) is still my favorite. I never did like the
type with the x cut into the top (or maybe they don't turn the pinch
over) - anyway, the bun part is too dry for me, in spite of it being
steamed. I think that one is called "Hong Kong" style, but I forget
which is which at the moment.

Unfortunately, the chinese bakery slash coffee shop nearest to my
house only bakes... so I buy baked bao now. The bao from this bakery
isn't bad (lots of filling). My only complaint is that they aren't
steamed. :)

[sf]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:22:23 -0700, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:

> The dirt people have taken over the economy.

<shrug> What else do you expect when real jobs have been shipped
elsewhere?

>
> Nowadays, I expect most sandwich clerks to be chewing gum, be covered
> in tatooes and piercings, and charge $6.99 for a limp, flat, tasteless
> sandwich.

You only have yourself to blame. If you don't like it, you can always
bring food from home.

>
> Oh, and have a "Tips Are Appreciated" jar for the marks to toss a
> dollar per sandwich into.
>
> Some day 60 million or more dirts will have to be dealt with. This
> can't go on for the next several decades.

Too bad, so sad. Perhaps you would be happier somewhere else, like
India, to get away from being served by the tattooed and pierced.
India is a country where the haves and the have nots are clearly
separated and there are real dirt people who are physically dirty and
live in the streets. Mumbai seems like it would be suitable for you.
I can picture it now, you holding your nose and talking smack about
the dirt people while your driver chauffeurs you from place to place.

[sf]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 17:09:05 -0700, Christine Dabney
<arti...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 16:17:55 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> >Thanks, sounds like a good place to keep in mind and drop by if I am
> >ever in the neighborhood (if I have a cooler in the car).
> >>
>
> We can make a trip over there on our Berkeley/East bay trip.
>

That's a good idea, Chris. I have it on my list of places to visit.
:)

[Pico Rico]

"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:22ian81msu7e1gt9s...@4ax.com...

or would he be in the back of a pedal car with a buggy whip?

[sf]

<LOL> Nice visual, but I sincerely doubt it. He would have too much
contact with the natives if he used that mode of transportation. He
needs to roll up his window, turn on the air conditioning and feel
superior. God forbid his lily white skin should be exposed the same
air as those nasty, horrible dirt people!

[Pico Rico]

"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message

news:q2lan8prds1b22i14...@4ax.com...

you are right. maybe he will find a video game with my scenario.

[Al Eisner]

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, Peter Lawrence wrote:

> On 4/20/13 1:12 AM, Ciccio wrote:
>>
>> Sure, there are places where us natives/locals, who got the hell outta
>> Dodge, return to meet. And we will never divulge them. Then there are
>> those long-time places that we share, because we know no way

>> transplant yuppies could ever ruin them. Freddie?s is such a place.

>>
>> So, if you are in the area of Francisco and Stockton, want a good,
>> belly buster sandwich, for a cheap price, at a true San Francisco

>> tradition, stop in at Freddie?s. It has all the oft found deli meats,

>> breads, and sides. I had, of course, as I have forever, an Italian
>> combo. Plan on having it to go, as seating is scant.
>
> They've been around since 1926, but they have embraced the new century with a

> nice clean and functional website, http://freddiessandwiches.net/ (why can't

> all restaurant websites be designed as so nicely?) and the ability to even
> order your sandwiches from your iPhone or Android smartphone (using the
> OrderAhead app).
>
> By the way, have you ever had their pastrami sandwich, if so, how was it?

Hmmmnm -- do you insist on ordering the Italian combo when you visit
Jewish delis? :)
--

Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

[Al Eisner]

Can one have nostalgia for what one has never experienced? Terrific
thread, guys!

[Peter Lawrence]

Who says that Freddie wasn't Jewish? You've never seen _Life Is Beautiful_ ?

;)

[spamtrap1888]

On Apr 20, 1:12 am, Ciccio <frances...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Last week, I had a sandwich  from Freddie’s. Sure, a good number of
> you are wondering who/what is Freddie’s? I’m sure most of you who
> think you know North Beach, have never heard of Freddie’s. That’s no
> surprise, as it very nondescript. Indeed, I’ve known transplants who
> lived in North Beach for years and never heard of Freddie’s, much less
> got a sandwich there.
>
> Freddie’s is one of the places where I have a spiritual food
> experience. Not that the sandwiches are sublime, as you can probably
> get as good elsewhere, albeit Freddie’s are damn good. It’s that
> besides some of my buddies, some of our elders went to Francisco Jr.
> High(now, middle school) across the street, along with their
> classmates including Joe D(imaggio).  Freddie’s has been there for
> almost a hundred years. The owners have changed, but Freddie’s never
> has. So, when I walk through its door, I am connected with the North
> Beach ghosts of the past.

>
> Sure, there are places where us natives/locals, who got the hell outta
> Dodge, return to meet. And we will never divulge them.

How can they survive if they stay secret? Look at places like Caesars,
which shut its doors because it suffered from a lack of patronage from
those same natives and locals. Hard to imagine that any place could
sustain itself on a customer base headed steadily for the great
beyond.

[Steve Pope]

spamtrap1888 <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 20, 1:12 am, Ciccio <frances...@comcast.net> wrote:

>> So, when I walk through its door, I am connected with the North
>> Beach ghosts of the past.

>> Sure, there are places where us natives/locals, who got the hell outta
>> Dodge, return to meet. And we will never divulge them.

>How can they survive if they stay secret?

Or at a more basic level, how does one even know these places are
not just part of a hallucinatory experience?


Steve

[evergene]

Steve Pope wrote:

[...]

>Or at a more basic level, how does one even know these places are
>not just part of a hallucinatory experience?

One time I was certain I could see the mind of God in a Mai Tai, but
then it turned out to be a tiny paper umbrella.

[Tim May]

> "sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:22ian81msu7e1gt9s...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:22:23 -0700, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The dirt people have taken over the economy.
>>
>> <shrug> What else do you expect when real jobs have been shipped
>> elsewhere?

This is the best consequence of our present Fed and tax policies:

-- U.S. corporations can borrow at essentially the Fed discount rate,
which is close to 0%, and use the money to build offshore manufacturing
plants

-- the offshore profits are then typically taxed at very low rates in
these countries

Win-win!

Other countries get the high tech jobs, we get the "Would you like
fries with that?" expanding service economy.

It's helped my high tech stock investments.

Win-win-win!

Oracle floats bonds at near-zero interest rates, ultimately from the
Fed, takes the money to Ireland to expand its operations there, and all
profits generated there are taxed at Ireland's special rates.

And Oracle in Dublin is rapidly expanding:
http://www.eolas.ie/jobs/ORACLE-jobs-ireland.php

Apple borrows at near-zero interest rate, from the Fed again, and pays
Foxconn and other makers to expand production in China. This is why
90%+ of iPhones and iPads are made in Asia. (I think the Gorilla Glass
from Corning may still be made in the U.S., but Corning is likely
considering using the free money to expand factories in Asia.)

(Apple's Mac CPUs are from Intel, and so, on average, are partially
U.S.-made. But Intel is expanding its factories in Limerick, Ireland
and in two locations in Israel. China is next. Funded with--you guessed
it!--the free money that Helicopter Ben is handing out as part of
Quantitative Easing I, II, III, and, now "QE-Forever.")

Good to know crony capitalism is making some of us richer and a lot of
young people into The Unemployables, our major new caste.

--
Tim May

[David Arnstein]

Tim forgot to mention another way that taxes kill jobs.

When Apple or Intel book a profit overseas, it is usually beneficial to
keep the resultant loot overseas. This is because American tax on
corporate profits is rather high. Over a period of years, the loot really
piles up! The more it piles up, the more attractive it is to deploy that
loot for something, anything. Such as (ding!) building and staffing a
factory. Or a customer service center.
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstei...@pobox.com {{ }}
^^

[Tim May]

On 2013-04-23 00:16:56 +0000, David Arnstein said:

> Tim forgot to mention another way that taxes kill jobs.
>
> When Apple or Intel book a profit overseas, it is usually beneficial to
> keep the resultant loot overseas. This is because American tax on
> corporate profits is rather high. Over a period of years, the loot really
> piles up! The more it piles up, the more attractive it is to deploy that
> loot for something, anything. Such as (ding!) building and staffing a
> factory. Or a customer service center.

Yes, this is what I meant about the low tax rates in these countries.

(And if the foreign profits, even after taxes, are repatriated to the
U.S., U.S. taxes are then collected. No reason to, and no plausible
U.S. law can force them to repatriate their assets. There is some talk
of an "amnesty," but this is unlikely to pass muster in today's
Congress. Cutting corporate tax rates drastically would be a natural
way to get this money repatriated. But even so, companies have many
other reasons to expand in non-U.S. locations.)

(The outflow from California has been breathtaking to behold. Intel,
for example, no longer has any significant manufacturing in the state.
The last wafer fab shut down some years ago, and it was an R & D fab,
not even a large manufacturing fab. TJ Rogers of Cypress Semiconductor
has said repeatedly that every California policy and law is
efffectively telling him: "We don't want you in our state. Get out."
Except for his corporate headquarters, he essentially has done so. I'm
expecting Intel to move its corporate headquarters to either Arizona
(probably) or Oregon. Then the last remaining Santa Clara and Folsom
operations can be wound down.)

Ideally, government should be much smaller. Freely giving out
"benefits" (monthly checks, housing subsidies, free health care, and on
and on) to about 100 million working-age Americans needs to end.

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/04/more-than-101-million-working-age.html

and

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-05/people-not-labor-force-soar-663000-90-million-labor-force-participation-rate-1979-le


(discussed in many places....this is the kind of news that _should_ be
leading our debates, not crapola about the Kardashians and what Lady
Gaga is "rocking." These trends, along with the $100 trillion unfunded
liabilities situation, are not sustainable. Indeed, we are almost
certainly beyond the point of no return. No amount of increased taxes
or belt-tightening is going to allow the U.S. to get back to a
sustainable financial footing. Indeed, Japan, most of Europe, is in
this situation. Throw in an aging population, the trends amongst the
young, and the implications are very clear.)

Corporate tax rates should be nearly zero. And if not, then the
taxation on dividends should end. (The double taxation issue.)

So, I'm happy that Intel, Apple, Oracle, Qualcomm, and my other stock
holdings and ETFs are benefitting by the trillions of dollars they are
accumulating in these low-tax nations.

And the residents of those nations are happy that so many new
factories, service call centers, and even R & D facilities (gulp, for
the future of America!) are being built in great numbers in their
backyards.

I was once somewhat dismissive of the "McJobs" arguments, but the facts
I see in the 10K reports for the companies I hold stock in just don't
lie. More and more of their profits are being booked outside the U.S.,
and for products shipped to offshore consumers.

Meanwhile, gazillions of "Women's Studies" and "Political Science"
grads are unemployable. I expect this to eventually hit STEM grads as
well, as the new factories and R & D labs are offshore. A Brain Drain
for the U.S. that almost exactly parallels the one from Britain and the
rest of Western Europe in the 1950-70s.

--
Tim May

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <2013042215413478485-tcmay@attnet>, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:
>Good to know crony capitalism is making some of us richer and a
>lot of young people into The Unemployables, our major new caste.

I can't help but wonder if Tim is starting to realize that "the
free market" is a fabrication.

[Ciccio]

On Apr 22, 7:24 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

> I'm a Mission girl.

Ah, that's what it is that I like about you.

>I lived there after I graduated from SFSU....

Did you go there during Hayakawa's heyday there?

> I was just two (maybe 1.5) blocks away from the original location of
> Alfred's, on the N. Beach side of the hill with a view of Coit
> tower... not a great view, but you could see it through the living
> room window if you stood enough to it.

Near above the Broadway tunnel?

> Yes.  My favorite place for char siu bao was on Washington, half a
> block up the hill from Grant on the right side... don't ask me what it
> was called,

We didn't have a favorite place, it was like, we'd walk along and
decide to get a char siu bao, the way suburban kids would decide to
get a candy bar. A friend I had back in that day, visited me recently,
and brought me a box full of char siu bao. A friend indeed.

And then there was something else we would do when walking through
Chinatown, we would play a game we called "name that vegetable." I got
pretty good at it.

Ciccio

[Ciccio]

On Apr 22, 2:46 pm, spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> How can they survive if they stay secret? Look at places like Caesars,

Caesar's was not a secret. It went out of business, but not because it
was a secret.

> Hard to imagine that any place could sustain itself on a customer base > headed steadily for the great beyond.

If the only patronage were whom you describe, then maybe. That said,
my friends and I pass it along to the younger people in our families
the way it was passed on to us by our elders. It's called tradition,
therefore the customer base gets replenished. Some places continue to
make it,others don't. That's why it's called "business."

Ciccio

[spamtrap1888]

If you could recommend more old school NB places that would appreciate
our business (but not be spoiled by it) I would appreciate it.

[Ciccio]

On Apr 23, 12:44 am, spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you could recommend more old school NB places that would appreciate
> our business (but not be spoiled by it) I would appreciate it.

Hmmm. OK, Capp's Corner. Of course, we (natives/locals) avoid the
tourists, etc., by ensuring we go there on the evenings when Beach
Blanket Babylon doesn't have shows. A group of us would regularly have
our "boys night out" there on such nights. There were other groups of
locals/natives there doing the same on those nights. The irony was,
and maybe still is, that people who worked at BBB would be there on
those nights too, so that they could avoid the tourists, etc.

Ciccio

[sf]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 20:03:19 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio
<franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Apr 22, 7:24 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> >I lived there after I graduated from SFSU....
>
> Did you go there during Hayakawa's heyday there?

I was at the very end of that era. I'd taken the year off to work
full time when the riots happened and I kicked myself in the butt ever
after because that was the year everyone got a B just for showing up
and it was an easy A if you put a little effort into class.

>
> > I was just two (maybe 1.5) blocks away from the original location of
> > Alfred's, on the N. Beach side of the hill with a view of Coit
> > tower... not a great view, but you could see it through the living
> > room window if you stood enough to it.
>
> Near above the Broadway tunnel?

Close enough. I lived one door down from the corner of Hyde and
Green, so I walked straight downhill to Washington Square (Capps
Corner was on my route). I took the Hyde St cable car to work
everyday - caught the first one when I worked 7-3, but sometimes I was
late so I'd take the second. The next day, the grip man would ask me
if I had been ill and say he'd waited a little bit for me to show up.
I loved that kind of neighborliness!

When I worked the 3-11 PM shift, I'd often stop by Alfred's and have
an after work libation with the staff. That was another really nice
crew.

[sf]

Our family's tradition is Gaspare's pizza on Geary, which is the old
Vince's with a "new" name. Gaspare has owned the place for over 25
years now. It's funny how we choose it to celebrate birthdays and
other family occasions. The grandchildren are indoctrinated early
into the tradition because we celebrate their births at Gaspare's too.
That's another nice guy. He always inquires about the family, asking
for updates on everyone individually.... just like an old friend.

Another restaurant that's been around a long time and everybody in the
family agrees on is Akagi down in San Bruno. Hubby and I are not hard
core sushi eaters, so we order a bento box. It's good food and cheap
eats.

Hubby and I still enjoy the occasional meal Joe's of Westlake, but I
don't think our kids are as enamored with it as we are. I wish they'd
modernize their sauces, but I'm sure there's a segment of their
customers that would scream bloody murder if they did. They certainly
are not suffering during the recession, so they're doing something
right and I know they treat their servers well, because I see the same
people working there decade after decade.

[sf]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 00:44:11 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you could recommend more old school NB places that would appreciate
> our business (but not be spoiled by it) I would appreciate it.

Capp's Corner http://cappscorner.com/ and North Beach Restaurant (not
pizza) http://northbeachrestaurant.com/ spring to mind immediately.

Fior d'Italia http://www.fior.com/ is still there, but in a different
location. Frankly, I never did like their food and my opinion hasn't
changed... I still don't like it - but the interior of their new place
is old school beautiful. It would be worth it to go and have a drink,
maybe some appetizers, at their bar. I'm not crazy about Mama's
http://www.mamas-sf.com/ either. Can't understand why people wait in
line to eat there, because it's not "all that" AFAIC.

[sf]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 17:58:35 -0700, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:

> (The outflow from California has been breathtaking to behold.

There is manufacturing opening in the South, where regulations are
slack, ordinary workers are shat upon and there's a huge gap between
the Haves and the Have Nots. Come to think of it, you'd be right at
home there too. They speak English in the South, but they speak
better English in India and the dirt people are better defined over
there.

[Ciccio]

On Apr 23, 7:57 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

> I was at the very end of that era.  I'd taken the year off to > work full time when the riots happened and I kicked myself in > the butt ever after because that was the year everyone got a B > just for showing up and it was an easy A if you put a little > effort into class.

Oh, so you missed the SFPD "Tact Squad." Hayakawa really liked them
and encouraged them. Those guys were some real head knockers.

> Close enough.  I lived one door down from the corner of Hyde and
> Green, so I walked straight downhill to Washington Square (Capps
> Corner was on my route).  I took the Hyde St cable car to work
> everyday - caught the first one when I worked 7-3, but sometimes I was
> late so I'd take the second.  The next day, the grip man would ask me
> if I had been ill and say he'd waited a little bit for me to show up.
> I loved that kind of neighborliness!

Oh, yeah, those days are gone, long gone.

>
> When I worked the 3-11 PM shift, I'd often stop by Alfred's and have
> an after work libation with the staff.  That was another really nice
> crew.

And for further after work drinking, restaurant workers, especially
those of French descent, would frequent the Montmarte club. It was
owned by that retired "madam."

Ciccio

[Ciccio]

On Apr 23, 8:24 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Our family's tradition is Gaspare's pizza on Geary, which is > the old

I've been there a few times and would have no problem going again.

> Hubby and I still enjoy the occasional meal Joe's of Westlake,

Jeez, for about 25 years, I would go there regularly. Even after I
moved to the East Bay, because other family wanted to go there. We,
too,still go there occasionally.

> but I
> don't think our kids are as enamored with it as we are.

The kids in our family sure are. In fact, my niece just went there a
few weeks ago.

>Another restaurant that's been around a long time and >everybody in the family agrees on is Akagi down in San >Bruno.

In San Bruno, Toto's pizza is the place, tradition sorta. I say sorta
because Toto's started in North Beach. But then in moved to the
Mission and Daly City. Still we would go, but not as much as when it
was in North Beach. Then after those closed, we only get to the one in
San Bruno once in awhile. And, of course, it's not as good as the
older ones. I haven't been to the ones further down the Peninsula.

Ciccio

[sf]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 08:49:20 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio
<franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Apr 23, 7:57 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I was at the very end of that era.  I'd taken the year off to > work full time when the riots happened and I kicked myself in > the butt ever after because that was the year everyone got a B > just for showing up and it was an easy A if you put a little > effort into class.
>
> Oh, so you missed the SFPD "Tact Squad." Hayakawa really liked them
> and encouraged them. Those guys were some real head knockers.

I didn't miss them entirely. They were still there the following
year. I remember a wall of Tact Squad police lined up facing the Quad
in front of what is now the Student Center and it scared me half to
death just walking past them to get to class.

[sf]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:24:55 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio
<franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> In San Bruno, Toto's pizza is the place, tradition sorta. I say sorta
> because Toto's started in North Beach. But then in moved to the
> Mission and Daly City. Still we would go, but not as much as when it
> was in North Beach. Then after those closed, we only get to the one in
> San Bruno once in awhile. And, of course, it's not as good as the
> older ones. I haven't been to the ones further down the Peninsula.

We were never Toto's fans. Hubby's sister's family were the big
Toto's people. In fact, one of her sons had his rehearsal dinner
there... that's how much they liked it. The reason I didn't like
Toto's was they didn't put olives on pizza and I required olives on my
pizza back in those days (plus their crust was too thick for my
taste). They didn't do chicken pizza either. Vince's was our go to
place for that and still is as Gaspare's. It's off the menu now, but
we tell them we want a Girabaldi and they know what to do.

[Steve Pope]

Funny how despite this "outflow" California has one of the higher
per-person GDP's in the world.

I'm all for more "outflow" myself.

Steve

[sf]

I'd like to see a bigger manufacturing base here because we need a
true middle class. I'm tired of seeing million dollar 1000 sf houses
on tiny lots... but that's how it goes when lots of people have lots
of money and need housing.

Because manufacturing jobs are in the less regulated South that's
where people are moving. People can move to less regulated Arkansas
and buy a house over a pipeline they don't know is there. When it
bursts, the oil company will tell them the fumes that are making them
feel sick are not making them sick and then divert the tar sand oil to
wetlands. Move to less regulated Texas, the company you work at blows
up & takes half the town with it. That's how it goes in the South -
I'm glad regulations are tighter in California.

[Steve Pope]

sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:41:38 +0000 (UTC), spo...@speedymail.org

>> Funny how despite this "outflow" California has one of the higher
>> per-person GDP's in the world.

>> I'm all for more "outflow" myself.

>I'd like to see a bigger manufacturing base here because we need a
>true middle class. I'm tired of seeing million dollar 1000 sf houses
>on tiny lots... but that's how it goes when lots of people have lots
>of money and need housing.
>
>Because manufacturing jobs are in the less regulated South that's
>where people are moving. People can move to less regulated Arkansas
>and buy a house over a pipeline they don't know is there. When it
>bursts, the oil company will tell them the fumes that are making them
>feel sick are not making them sick and then divert the tar sand oil to
>wetlands. Move to less regulated Texas, the company you work at blows
>up & takes half the town with it. That's how it goes in the South -
>I'm glad regulations are tighter in California.

Regulations are tighter, but not that much tighter -- there is fracking
going on in California, but not like the scale of it in South
Dakota (a once pretty state, soon to be a total wasteland).

But even if the taxes/regulatory environment were the same, California
would have problems maintaining a middle class. Why? Because
California is more very desirable culturally, and therefore attracts
tons of people with personal wealth, thus driving up prices.

This is, really, the big difference between the U.S. and Europe,
and why they have such insoluble problems over there:
In the U.S., the more economically productive states like
New York and California are also the most culturally advanced.
So, we don't resent the rest of the country and are therefore
more willing to spread the wealth around. Whereas in Europe,
the wealth is concentrated in a cultural dead zone in northern
Europe. Those people resent the fact the southern Eurpopeans
have more fun and have a richer culture, which is why they're obsessed
with imposing austerity on them.

Imagine if jealous Californians decided to wage economic war
on West Virginia and drive them into bankruptcy ... ain't gonna
happen. But that's how Germany is behaving.


Steve

[Steve Pope]

sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:

>We were never Toto's fans. Hubby's sister's family were the big
>Toto's people. In fact, one of her sons had his rehearsal dinner
>there... that's how much they liked it. The reason I didn't like
>Toto's was they didn't put olives on pizza and I required olives on my
>pizza back in those days (plus their crust was too thick for my
>taste). They didn't do chicken pizza either. Vince's was our go to
>place for that and still is as Gaspare's. It's off the menu now, but
>we tell them we want a Girabaldi and they know what to do.

Not sure I've ever seen a chicken pizza. That just doesn't resonate.


Steve

[Ciccio]

On Apr 23, 10:16 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

> I didn't miss them entirely.  They were still there the following
> year.  I remember a wall of Tact Squad police lined up facing the Quad
> in front of what is now the Student Center and it scared me half to
> death just walking past them to get to class.

Oh yeah, they were big, burly, and mean. They would also patrol
around. Man, talk about intimidation. They would patrol in station
wagons with, 4-5 guys in there. And when they did a walking stops they
would all pile out and they'd have helmets on. Geezus, it looked like
you were getting jacked up by the 49ers O-line. Of course, street
survival was always be polite when stopped generally by a cop, you
know, yes officer, etc. Man, with the Tact squad it was yes officer,
SIR. You didn't give them any bullshit like "I know my rights, what's
your badge number, etc."

I have a buddy who is retired SFPD and he was on the Tact squad back
in the day. So, a Lieutenant was giving a briefing before they
descended on SF State... "OK, we got the press out there with cameras.
So, try to avoid females. And no sticks to the heads on males, knee
'em in the nuts, knee 'em in the nuts..."

Then one time a friend of mine and I were walking when he flashed a
peace sign at the Tact Squad driving by. I was ready to kick his ass
for doing that. Of course, they stopped, backed up, and piled out to
jack us up. After the "break out your IDs and up against the wall
routine, they said: "Here, you want to see our peace sign?" And they
all flipped us the bird. My friend, all of sudden wasn't so cool, and
joined me in unison with "Yes, officers, sirs, that's a pretty good
one, we'll remember that."

Ah, the 60s, when cops were cops and youths were youths...

Ciccio

[Peter Lawrence]

On 4/23/13 3:05 PM, Ciccio wrote:
>
> My friend, all of sudden wasn't so cool, and
> joined me in unison with "Yes, officers, sirs, that's a pretty good
> one, we'll remember that."

And yet if you remembered the Tact Squads "peace sign" and gave their "peace
sign" the next time they drove by, I would suspect that they would have
acted a bit differently.

;)

[spamtrap1888]

When I hit 13 or 14, my dad explained to me that the police were not
just Officer Friendly, and how to interact with them to ensure my
continued survival. What attracts cops to that job is the opportunity
it offers to get others to submit to their lawful authority. The
sooner you submit, the better off you are. If you come off as a
smartass punk, they will have fun adjusting your attitude.

[Ciccio]

Heh. SFPD back in that day had a whole different concept of police
community relations. I got to hand it to one cop who really got us
ROFL. Even now, just thinking about it, I chuckle. I was walking with
some people and one was a girl about 18. A cop drove by and she yelled
OINK! Then the cop drove back around to us. He apparently had rolled
down the passenger side window and stopped beside us near the girl. I
thought uh-oh. Then the cop looked right at the girl and went...ARF!
ARF!

Ciccio

[Ciccio]

Great advice. Though I'm sure there are various motives why people get
on the job. There is one thing, however, that is universal, most
likely in any country and that's the cop euphemism "asshole." And once
a cop labels somebody that, the person's legal fees just increased ten
fold. e.g., Reese Witherspoon this past weekend.

We learned really young that SFPD cops back then were really lazy.
Unless you gave them an excuse, they would let you go because it was
too much work to make an arrest. But if a guy pissed them off and made
them work, especially interrupting a doughnut break, that guy was a
real "asshole" and was getting busted.

Ciccio

[JHATG]

In article
<04b2356d-1073-430a...@j5g2000pby.googlegroups.com>,

Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Ah, the 60s, when cops were cops and youths were youths...

Now the youths are cops. And vice versa.

[tutall]

On Apr 23, 2:26 pm, spop...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:

> This is, really, the big difference between the U.S. and Europe,
> and why they have such insoluble problems over there:
> In the U.S., the more economically productive states like
> New York and California are also the most culturally advanced.
> So, we don't resent the rest of the country and are therefore
> more willing to spread the wealth around.  Whereas in Europe,
> the wealth is concentrated in a cultural dead zone in northern
> Europe.  Those people resent the fact the southern Eurpopeans
> have more fun and have a richer culture, which is why they're obsessed
> with imposing austerity on them.

Thank you for the laugh. Where do you come up with this stuff?

How did this uber-resentment manifest itself, say, a decade ago?
What sort of obsessive behaviors were the Dutch, Danes and Belgiums
inflicting on those poor swarthy peoples then, Elektro music?
Latvians, Finns, Poles, Czechs, Slovakians........

Or did they all only very recently realize that it's warmer in the
south and want to take over their beachfront properties?
You ever see those beaches on the North Sea where they make sand berms
to protect from the winds? Brrrrr.

Please, am fascinated to learn more about this, do go on......

Here's the list of current EU countries:

Austria (1995) Belgium (1952) Bulgaria (2007) Cyprus (2004) Czech
Republic (2004) Denmark (1973) Estonia (2004) Finland (1995) France
(1952) Germany (1952) Greece (1981) Hungary (2004) Ireland (1973)
Italy (1952) Latvia (2004) Lithuania (2004) Luxembourg (1952) Malta
(2004) Netherlands (1952) Poland (2004) Portugal (1986) Romania (2007)
Slovakia (2004) Slovenia (2004) Spain (1986) Sweden (1995) United
Kingdom (1973)


On the road to EU membership:
Acceding country Croatia

Candidate Countries Iceland Montenegro Serbia The former Yugoslav
Republic of Macedonia Turkey
Potential candidates Albania Bosnia and Herzegovina Kosovo*

They resent southrons so much, all future members come from the
region. That'll show them!

[tutall]

On Apr 24, 7:26 am, tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 23, 2:26 pm, spop...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:

Decent article on concerns about France's role today:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/24/us-france-eu-insight-idUSBRE93N0AA20130424

[sf]

If I'm going to have meat on a pizza, I'd rather it was chicken.

[Steve Pope]

tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 23, 2:26 pm, spop...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>> This is, really, the big difference between the U.S. and Europe,
>> and why they have such insoluble problems over there:
>> In the U.S., the more economically productive states like
>> New York and California are also the most culturally advanced.
>> So, we don't resent the rest of the country and are therefore
>> more willing to spread the wealth around.  Whereas in Europe,
>> the wealth is concentrated in a cultural dead zone in northern
>> Europe.  Those people resent the fact the southern Eurpopeans
>> have more fun and have a richer culture, which is why they're obsessed
>> with imposing austerity on them.
>
>Thank you for the laugh. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Unscientific sociological observation. Just a theory, in other words.

>How did this uber-resentment manifest itself, say, a decade ago?

Well, that's when they invented the euro, which was in part a
scheme to transfer yet more wealth out of southern Europe.

But from a longer point of view, when European countries were
not invading each other, northern peoples would take the "Grand Tour"
to experience the classical cultures of the south.

>Here's the list of current EU countries:
>
>Austria (1995) Belgium (1952) Bulgaria (2007) Cyprus (2004) Czech
>Republic (2004) Denmark (1973) Estonia (2004) Finland (1995) France
>(1952) Germany (1952) Greece (1981) Hungary (2004) Ireland (1973)
>Italy (1952) Latvia (2004) Lithuania (2004) Luxembourg (1952) Malta
>(2004) Netherlands (1952) Poland (2004) Portugal (1986) Romania (2007)
>Slovakia (2004) Slovenia (2004) Spain (1986) Sweden (1995) United
>Kingdom (1973)

This is different from the Eurozone, which has fewer countries.

>Candidate Countries Iceland Montenegro Serbia The former Yugoslav
>Republic of Macedonia Turkey
>Potential candidates Albania Bosnia and Herzegovina Kosovo*

>They resent southrons so much, all future members come from the
>region.

Well sure, so they can fold them into a common economy and
exploit them.

(Iceland?)


Steve



Steve

[Steve Pope]

sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 21:50:33 +0000 (UTC), spo...@speedymail.org

>> Not sure I've ever seen a chicken pizza. That just doesn't resonate.

>If I'm going to have meat on a pizza, I'd rather it was chicken.

This may have made sense back before factory chicken was not quite
as gross and unhealthy as it has become.

Tangentially, at Kato's in Oakland, you can get chicken wings,
and their chicken supplier is Mary's. I consider this superior.


Steve

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <kl936k$b2k$2...@blue-new.rahul.net>,

Steve Pope <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote:
>This may have made sense back before factory chicken was not quite
>as gross and unhealthy as it has become.

I agree this stuff seems to taste worse year after year. Still,
of course, one isn't compelled to use factory chicken.

My experience with chicken on pizza is that it's usually bite-size
pieces of breast meat, and usually dry. I would never choose that
for myself, even with quality chicken. Where poultry can be good
on pizza, IME, and I say poultry because duck works great, is
shredded as more of a background flavor with something stronger in
the foreground (olives, for instance).

[Steve Pope]

Todd Michel McComb <mcc...@medieval.org> wrote:

>Steve Pope <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote:

>>This may have made sense back before factory chicken was not quite
>>as gross and unhealthy as it has become.

>I agree this stuff seems to taste worse year after year. Still,
>of course, one isn't compelled to use factory chicken.

>My experience with chicken on pizza is that it's usually bite-size
>pieces of breast meat, and usually dry.

Ah, okay. I can mentally picture that on a pizza now.

When PETA figures out how to grow those breast cubes, without
requiring a full animal with a central nervous system, nobody
will notice the difference.

>I would never choose that
>for myself, even with quality chicken. Where poultry can be good
>on pizza, IME, and I say poultry because duck works great, is
>shredded as more of a background flavor with something stronger in
>the foreground (olives, for instance).

Duck is usually fattier also. Something like sausage is also fatty;
that may help these ingredients survive a pizza oven without
drying out.

Steve

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <kl9487$bho$1...@blue-new.rahul.net>,

Steve Pope <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote:
>When PETA figures out how to grow those breast cubes, without
>requiring a full animal with a central nervous system, nobody
>will notice the difference.

For once I agree with you, although I doubt it'll be PETA figuring
this out. It'll mean higher profits, so I imagine it's well on its
way, other than making sure consumers don't freak. My wife and I
have been openly wondering for years when this hits the market.

"Tastes like chicken." (Meaning chicken is assuredly what it'll
be called.)

>Duck is usually fattier also. Something like sausage is also fatty;
>that may help these ingredients survive a pizza oven without
>drying out.

Shredded chicken thigh can be good, but kind of the way I envision
this (or have had it) is so the shreds are down into the cheese
and/or sauce and aren't going to dry out.

[tutall]

On Apr 24, 10:00 am, spop...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
> tutall  <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 23, 2:26 pm, spop...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
>

> >> more willing to spread the wealth around.  Whereas in Europe,
> >> the wealth is concentrated in a cultural dead zone in northern
> >> Europe.  Those people resent the fact the southern Eurpopeans
> >> have more fun and have a richer culture, which is why they're obsessed
> >> with imposing austerity on them.
>
> >Thank you for the laugh. Where do you come up with this stuff?
>
> Unscientific sociological observation.  Just a theory, in other words.

Cocktail party chatter? Students arguing in a coffee shop on
Telegraph?

> >How did this uber-resentment manifest itself, say, a decade ago?
>
> Well, that's when they invented the euro, which was in part a
> scheme to transfer yet more wealth out of southern Europe.

Ahh, the Euro was a creation of Northern resentment. Interesting
theory.
The Italians must be soo pissed to have let Machiavelli become well
known.

> But from a longer point of view,  when European countries were
> not invading each other, northern peoples would take the "Grand Tour"
> to experience the classical cultures of the south.

So, a very English upper class habit from more than a century ago is
supposed to inform us to this day.

The Skandinavians I met on their "tour" considered Germany "Southern".
Heh, perspective and all that.


What's all that about young Australians going to Europe for 6+ months
at a time. Are they involved somehow as well?

> This is different from the Eurozone, which has fewer countries.

Brain fart, yes, 27 countries, not 28. And a few assorted non EU
countries that are using the Euro.
Result is that total countries using the Euro being higher than belong
to the EU.

> >They resent southrons so much, all future members come from the
> >region.
>
> Well sure, so they can fold them into a common economy and
> exploit them.

You keep on asserting this. With the same support, I assert they took
advantage of Sweden.

This ignores the reality that even from the very beginning, countries
that did not meet fairly strict criteria lobbied to have exemptions
and rules loosened (in their favor naturally). Mostly weaker southern
and eastern countries of course.
Talk about running into it, eh?

Now that the influential (how'd it become so influential anyway?)
study on austerity has been debunked, look for a change in tone.


> (Iceland?)

I know, right?

[Steve Pope]

tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 24, 10:00 am, spop...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:

>> >How did this uber-resentment manifest itself, say, a decade ago?
>>
>> Well, that's when they invented the euro, which was in part a
>> scheme to transfer yet more wealth out of southern Europe.
>
>Ahh, the Euro was a creation of Northern resentment. Interesting
>theory.
>The Italians must be soo pissed to have let Machiavelli become well
>known.

>> But from a longer point of view,  when European countries were
>> not invading each other, northern peoples would take the "Grand Tour"
>> to experience the classical cultures of the south.

>So, a very English upper class habit from more than a century ago is
>supposed to inform us to this day.

>The Skandinavians I met on their "tour" considered Germany "Southern".
>Heh, perspective and all that.

I still contend that, much more so than the Eurozone, the USA has
regional financial wealth and regional cultural wealth co-located.
(For example, look at how many conservatories of music are in Italy,
compared to the American south.)

But my main point here was to counter the claim that California
lacks a middle class due to over-regulation; I do not believe
that is the main driver.


Steve

[Ciccio]

On Apr 24, 9:00 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

> If I'm going to have meat on a pizza, I'd rather it was > chicken.

I've had it, it's OK. I may be with people who are ordering pizzas
with various toppings. I may give a piece a try. I, however, am a
traditionalist when it comes to pizza, like maybe a pizza Margherita.
So when I'm with a group who orders various toppings, I may try a
piece, but I often just remove the toppings.

My Italian(national) friends and relatives bemoan what Americans do to
food. I haven't read a scientific survey, but amongst Italians, beef
jerky,ketchup, the abundant various pizza toppings Americans use, and
canned spaghetti a la Chef Boyardee, seem to be their top gross-outs.
(and I bet amongst a good many Americans.) Yet, Italians will put hot
dogs and fries on their pizza (kinda sorta, wurstel and fried
potatoes.) Talk about YMMV.

Ciccio

[Ciccio]

On Apr 23, 10:29 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> We were never Toto's fans.  Hubby's sister's family were the big

He was smart and won us over as little kids. When the adults had their
"big people" pizzas, he would make miniature individual pizzas for the
little kids. Hence, we grew up to be Toto loyalists. Well, that is,
until the more recent carnations in San Bruno and the others on the
peninsula.

Ciccio

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <008872f1-12df-4564...@pl9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>This ignores the reality that even from the very beginning, countries
>that did not meet fairly strict criteria lobbied to have exemptions
>and rules loosened (in their favor naturally). Mostly weaker
>southern and eastern countries of course.

I suggest thinking about what you mean by "weaker" here. If people
are going to go to one system of exchange, then they need to be
able to compare values between different things. If I say we're
going to use the same kind of money, and my bank balance will read
$1000000, and yours will read $10, and you negotiate it (up 100%!)
to $20, you're still going to be in for a bit of a shock when I
tell you that those sorts of human values that you've never really
measured in money (and so didn't care so much about money) *are*
now going to be measured in money. I suppose it seems obvious from
within a culture where we're told that everything is about money
that, once these economic systems got joined, everything would be
about money. That doesn't mean everyone realized it, or agreed.
Some people have the nerve to believe that their cultural values
or other things aren't really commensurable to money.

>Now that the influential (how'd it become so influential anyway?)
>study on austerity has been debunked, look for a change in tone.

Just how much change in tone did we get in this country when the
Laffer Curve and other elements of "supply side economics" were
debunked? It's the same rhetoric in perpetuity.

[Ciccio]

Heh. Of course, I meant "incarnation" no "carnation" though it's not a
bad flower.

Ciccio

[tutall]

On Apr 24, 11:12 am, spop...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
> tutall  <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 24, 10:00 am, spop...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
> >> >How did this uber-resentment manifest itself, say, a decade ago?
>
> >> Well, that's when they invented the euro, which was in part a
> >> scheme to transfer yet more wealth out of southern Europe.
>
> >Ahh, the Euro was a creation of Northern resentment. Interesting
> >theory.
> >The Italians must be soo pissed to have let Machiavelli become well
> >known.
> >> But from a longer point of view,  when European countries were
> >> not invading each other, northern peoples would take the "Grand Tour"
> >> to experience the classical cultures of the south.
> >So, a very English upper class habit from more than a century ago is
> >supposed to inform us to this day.
> >The Skandinavians I met on their "tour" considered Germany "Southern".
> >Heh, perspective and all that.

>
> I still contend that, much more so than the Eurozone, the USA has
> regional financial wealth and regional cultural wealth co-located.
> (For example, look at how many conservatories of music are in Italy,
> compared to the American south.)

Okay, would mostly agree, but public culture in the US is so damn
different than in Europe it's a bit difficult to make comparisons. I
don't believe comparing Italy to the US south works well, in any
context really.

Shoot, even within countries they can/will have such regional divides,
Italy's north looks down on their southerners, Napoli and Sicilian,
Germans make fun of Bavarians, and visa versa, and they all make fun
of Austrians.

> But my main point here was to counter the claim that California
> lacks a middle class due to over-regulation; I do not believe
> that is the main driver.
>

Hell no, we're in agreement there.

There's been a fair amount of press of how private wealth has been
consolidated by the upper x%, what I'd like to see as well, which I
don't know is represented by that, is how much wealth is controlled by
corporate interests and financial instruments, such as those owned by
non US citizens.

Am thinking a lot of our monies, mostly profits are being sucked out
of the US at very low tax rates.

[tutall]

On Apr 24, 12:52 pm, mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb) wrote:
> In article <008872f1-12df-4564-bb29-9bcf4940c...@pl9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

>
> tutall  <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >This ignores the reality that even from the very beginning, countries
> >that did not meet fairly strict criteria lobbied to have exemptions
> >and rules loosened (in their favor naturally).  Mostly weaker
> >southern and eastern countries of course.
>
> I suggest thinking about what you mean by "weaker" here.

Weaker in being smaller. not as robust, poorer infrastructure, poor
tax collection rates, more graft, with a small manufacturing/
industrial and export base. Worse GDP to debt ratio was a biggie when
they were first putting the Eurozone together, remember all the
countries scrambling to get their ducks in order?

"Weaker" here means those unable to meet those requirements.

> >Now that the influential (how'd it become so influential anyway?)
> >study on austerity has been debunked, look for a change in tone.
>
> Just how much change in tone did we get in this country when the
> Laffer Curve and other elements of "supply side economics" were
> debunked?  It's the same rhetoric in perpetuity.

Meh, don't depress me.

[tutall]

On Apr 23, 2:50 pm, spop...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
> Not sure I've ever seen a chicken pizza.  That just doesn't resonate.
>

You are missing out, this place makes a couple of really good ones:

http://www.extremepizza.com/menu/pizza.html

The Raging Rooster and Kickin' Chicken, well, kick chickenbutt.


Round Table makes a couple of tasty varieties as well.

[pfraser]

Ciccio wrote:
>Yet, Italians will put ... fries on their pizza

I'm surprised. That sounds like it should have
been a Scottish invention. Perhaps an update on
chip butties.

[David Arnstein]

In article <1d72e1f9-c693-4474...@tz3g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>You are missing out, this place makes a couple of really good ones:
>
>http://www.extremepizza.com/menu/pizza.html

I visited Extreme Pizza in San Ramon and I really enjoyed it.
Appearance-wise, it is a fast food place. But my one meal there was
surprisingly good. Their "Yard Sale" pizza was delicious, and a good
value too. I found a nice beer on their menu, but I cannot remember
their drinks selection now.

Extreme Pizza is probably the best of the pizza chain stores, here in
the ba.
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstei...@pobox.com {{ }}
^^

[Al Eisner]

According to wikipedia, Chef Boyardee was started by an Italian immigrant
named Ettore Boiardi. He even invented the "Boy-ar-dee" spelling.
Fooling those poor natives who didn't know any better. Should one blame
the exploited or the exploiter?

But, then, it's wikipedia....
--

Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

[sf]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 11:39:51 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio
<franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Apr 24, 9:00 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> > If I'm going to have meat on a pizza, I'd rather it was > chicken.
>
> I've had it, it's OK. I may be with people who are ordering pizzas
> with various toppings. I may give a piece a try. I, however, am a
> traditionalist when it comes to pizza, like maybe a pizza Margherita.
> So when I'm with a group who orders various toppings, I may try a
> piece, but I often just remove the toppings.

It's just ground chicken (probably with a glug of olive oil),
mushrooms, garlic and a light sprinkle of cheese. I do NOT like pizza
Margherita, not even the one at Tony's... which was just as blah as
every other one I've tried was - but adding insult to injury, it was
expensive too. Not doing that again. I like the "Italian" pizzas
I've eaten in Italy, but I don't like the holy grails called
Margherita or Neapolitan. Sicilian style is just like "home" to me,
so it's comfort food and no big deal. For the WOW factor - I liked
the pizzas of Rome that are sold at walk up windows or small pizza
bakeries. They are displayed in big cases and sold by the 100g. My
favorite was a bianca topped with arugula and a little pecorino or
parmesan. Maybe there was more to it, but that's what I remember.

>
> My Italian(national) friends and relatives bemoan what Americans do to
> food. I haven't read a scientific survey, but amongst Italians, beef
> jerky,ketchup, the abundant various pizza toppings Americans use, and
> canned spaghetti a la Chef Boyardee, seem to be their top gross-outs.
> (and I bet amongst a good many Americans.) Yet, Italians will put hot
> dogs and fries on their pizza (kinda sorta, wurstel and fried
> potatoes.) Talk about YMMV.
>

LOL - those toppings sound as unappetizing as those "chip buttie"
sandwiches Brits eat and that poutine French Canadians eat.

[sf]

I understood; just thought you were "being cute" and didn't give it a
second thought. :)

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <aada18f5-cff6-4d1e...@pd6g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Weaker in being smaller. not as robust, poorer infrastructure, poor
>tax collection rates, more graft, with a small manufacturing/
>industrial and export base. Worse GDP to debt ratio was a biggie when
>they were first putting the Eurozone together, remember all the
>countries scrambling to get their ducks in order?

"Military." I.e., "Our values matter, yours don't."

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris02.slac.stanford.edu>,

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>According to wikipedia, Chef Boyardee was started by an Italian immigrant
>named Ettore Boiardi.

While sitting in a bar one day, I saw a documentary on this (on
Food Network or such) on this. Kind of disturbing.

[pfraser]

sf wrote:

>>
> LOL - those toppings sound as unappetizing as those "chip buttie"
> sandwiches Brits eat and that poutine French Canadians eat.

When I was in Montreal I tried poutine, expecting to hate it.
I was pleasantly surprised. The cheese curds were much more
tasty and cheesy than I had anticipated. I had expected something
greasy and tasteless, but I quite enjoyed it.

[Ciccio]

I'm not sure there is any blame. There is the average American palate
and he was a business man who catered to it. Just like Chun King did
for Chinese food. Though, perhaps not the best example because Chun
King was started by an Italian-American.

Ciccio

[Steve Pope]

pfraser <pete_...@comcast.net> wrote:

>When I was in Montreal I tried poutine, expecting to hate it.
>I was pleasantly surprised. The cheese curds were much more
>tasty and cheesy than I had anticipated. I had expected something
>greasy and tasteless, but I quite enjoyed it.

It's great stuff. There's a restaurant on O'Farrell called Jasper's
that has a few types of poutine on their menu. None as good as
the Montreal version however.

It's not even non-nutritional. Potatoes are 10% protein calories, the
same ratio as quinoa, which is often stated to be a high-protein food.

Steve

Steve

[Peter Lawrence]

On 4/24/13 10:37 AM, Todd Michel McComb wrote:
>
> Shredded chicken thigh can be good, but kind of the way I envision
> this (or have had it) is so the shreds are down into the cheese
> and/or sauce and aren't going to dry out.

What's excellent is when one keep the skin on the chicken that one tops a
pizza with. I've had only homemade versions of this made by one of my
friends. The chicken simply tasted outstanding.


- Peter

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <kla5ei$q2q$1...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>What's excellent is when one keep the skin on the chicken that one tops a
>pizza with.

Chicken skin is a good idea, maybe even without more chicken. I
haven't tried this.

[Peter Lawrence]

On 4/24/13 3:45 PM, pfraser wrote:
>
> When I was in Montreal I tried poutine, expecting to hate it.
> I was pleasantly surprised. The cheese curds were much more
> tasty and cheesy than I had anticipated. I had expected something
> greasy and tasteless, but I quite enjoyed it.

AT&T Park now serves poutine fries at one of its burger stands.

It's the same burger stand that sells the "Original Joe" burgers (though I
don't think they're quite like the original even though the Giants claimed
in a press release this month that they're an exact replica of the ones
served at Original Joe's).


- Peter

[Tim May]

A few days ago there was a much-linked item about David Chan, an LA
Chinese who has apparently logged 6000+ Chinese restaurants. He's a
very good writer, with good understanding of causality issues (e.g.,
why did Cantonese food dominate until the 1970s...these are things most
of us had figured out, and even discussed here on ba.food, but his
writings are still useful).

Apropos of his points, I think the very "fragmentation" of the U.S.
Chinese restaurant market in the 70s facillitate the adoption of those
"weird" new Chinese dishes (Kung Pao Chicken, Hunan Beef, all the
rest). There were no large chains slowly evaluating new dishes.

Poutine fries is something I would like to try, but it may be a while
before Wendy's "tries" it on some short-lived menu.

If Panda Express had had the popularity of McDonald's in the 60s, we'd
likely only now be learning about General Tso's Chicken.

If Taco Bell had had this same popularity in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s,
etc., well, this would explain why Mexican food is mostly stuck at
tacos, burritos, and enchiladas.

(Yeah, there are many tacqueria alternatives. If you're not retarded,
you get my point. ObLegal: "Not that there's anything _wrong_ with
being retarded," said in the uptalk singsong style typical of moder
youth, feminists, and liberals.)

I'll ask Wendy's or Carl's if they can add poutine fries to their
experimental menu in, say, 2018.




--
Tim May

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <201304242147055652-tcmay@attnet>, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:
>ObLegal: "Not that there's anything _wrong_ with >being retarded,"

I guess you're happy with how being intellectually challenged has
worked out for you. I'd say something about changing circumstances
for young people, but I know you want them to suffer.

[sf]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:47:05 -0700, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:

> If Panda Express had had the popularity of McDonald's in the 60s, we'd
> likely only now be learning about General Tso's Chicken.

We'd only be learning now about an American invented dish that was
introduced to most of us via Jerry Seinfeld? How is that possible?