Original Gravity Pub -- San Jose

[spamtrap1888]

We needed to get outside on the beautiful Saturday afternoon, so we
went to try out the Original Gravity pub in downtown SJ, at 66 S. 1st
Street, just around the corner from Gordon Biersch.

According to the giant display hovering over the bar, they had 23
microbrews on tap, almost all from California and Oregon (Ninkasi's
Triceratops). We got the 5 samples for $15, soon augmented by a wild-
fermented beer that our neighbor at the picnic table outside didn't
care for.

Food is available in the form of gourmet sausages and duck fat fries a
la Hot Doug's in Chicago. But we had already eaten lunch and had
planned our dinner, so that will have to be tried later. Very friendly
vibe from the customers -- bartender was rather distant -- and nice
back patio.

[sf]

I'll put that on the list of places to try someday. Thanks.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

[Al Eisner]

On Sun, 12 May 2013, spamtrap1888 wrote:

> We needed to get outside on the beautiful Saturday afternoon, so we
> went to try out the Original Gravity pub in downtown SJ, at 66 S. 1st
> Street, just around the corner from Gordon Biersch.

Heavy, man!

> According to the giant display hovering over the bar, they had 23
> microbrews on tap, almost all from California and Oregon (Ninkasi's
> Triceratops). We got the 5 samples for $15, soon augmented by a wild-
> fermented beer that our neighbor at the picnic table outside didn't
> care for.
>
> Food is available in the form of gourmet sausages and duck fat fries a

Okay, what are "duck fat fries"? Is that fried duck fat, or French-fried
potatoes in which duck fat is the frying medium?

> la Hot Doug's in Chicago. But we had already eaten lunch and had
> planned our dinner, so that will have to be tried later. Very friendly
> vibe from the customers -- bartender was rather distant -- and nice
> back patio.

More serious question: how did the selection of beers work out?
--

Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

[evergene]

Al Eisner wrote:

>Okay, what are "duck fat fries"? Is that fried duck fat, or French-fried
>potatoes in which duck fat is the frying medium?

Similar to poutine fries, except instead of using rendered poutine fat
as the frying medium, rendered duck fat is used.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <eak2p858ladgaj7qm...@4ax.com>,

evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
>Similar to poutine fries, except instead of using rendered poutine
>fat as the frying medium, rendered duck fat is used.

Could it be that poutine fries are also trendy?

[spamtrap1888]

On May 13, 1:43 pm, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2013, spamtrap1888 wrote:
> > We needed to get outside on the beautiful Saturday afternoon, so we
> > went to try out the Original Gravity pub in downtown SJ, at 66 S. 1st
> > Street, just around the corner from Gordon Biersch.
>
> Heavy, man!
>
> > According to the giant display hovering over the bar, they had 23
> > microbrews on tap, almost all from California and Oregon (Ninkasi's
> > Triceratops). We got the 5 samples for $15, soon augmented by a wild-
> > fermented beer that our neighbor at the picnic table outside didn't
> > care for.
>
> > Food is available in the form of gourmet sausages and duck fat fries a
>
> Okay, what are "duck fat fries"?  Is that fried duck fat, or French-fried
> potatoes in which duck fat is the frying medium?

I agonized over that sentence. I refused to type "fries fried in duck
fat."

>
> > la Hot Doug's in Chicago. But we had already eaten lunch and had
> > planned our dinner, so that will have to be tried later. Very friendly
> > vibe from the customers -- bartender was rather distant -- and nice
> > back patio.
>
> More serious question: how did the selection of beers work out?

It was fine. My wife picked the five: three IPAs (I liked Electric
Tower, Triceratops was surprisingly malty for an IPA, and Blackball
Belgian from Karl Strauss) El Steinber from Anderson Valley, and a
Berliner Weisse from Placentia. The BW needed no syrup to be drinkable
(in Berlin, syrups turn them either red or green).

The gift was Miscreant, which was a Belgian sour lite, if you can
imagine that. Miscreant, El Steinber, and Blackball were refreshing.

Then we split an oak-smoked Old Guardian from Stone, which I was happy
to have tried but feel no need to repeat.

[pfraser]

evergene wrote:
>
> Similar to poutine fries, except instead of using rendered poutine fat
> as the frying medium, rendered duck fat is used.

That sounded narsty.
I had assumed that "poutine" was somehow derived from "putain" (similar
to pasta puttanesca), and the concept of rendered poutine fat was not
particularly appetizing. Wikipidia suggests, however, that "poutine" is
derived from the English "pudding".

[sf]

Rendered "Poutine" fat? LOLOL

[sf]

On Mon, 13 May 2013 13:43:36 -0700, Al Eisner
<eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:

> Okay, what are "duck fat fries"? Is that fried duck fat, or French-fried
> potatoes in which duck fat is the frying medium?

Yes, Potatoes fried in duck fat.

[sf]

On Mon, 13 May 2013 18:37:22 -0700, pfraser <pete_...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> evergene wrote:
> >
> > Similar to poutine fries, except instead of using rendered poutine fat
> > as the frying medium, rendered duck fat is used.
>
> That sounded narsty.

Narsty??? Is that a word like "arse"?

> I had assumed that "poutine" was somehow derived from "putain" (similar
> to pasta puttanesca), and the concept of rendered poutine fat was not
> particularly appetizing. Wikipidia suggests, however, that "poutine" is
> derived from the English "pudding".

None of the above. FYI: The colloquial meaning of the UK term
"pudding" is equal to our "dessert".

Please keep up.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <48l3p8h0q5mk4mcpe...@4ax.com>,

sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Narsty??? Is that a word like "arse"?

How quickly they forget.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <gol3p810vf18tpf7i...@4ax.com>,
sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Rendered "Poutine" fat? LOLOL

Sure, it's funny until someone gets hurt.

[sf]

Now I'm really laughing. :)

[Peter Lawrence]

+1

[Tim May]

"We're not worely!"

--
Tim May

[Hans Klager]

Not to forget, black pudding, pease pudding and Yorkshire
pudding?


--
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell

[Hans Klager]

Where is Meg Worley when you need her most?

[sf]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 11:30:15 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
<hans....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 13 May 2013 23:19:47 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 13 May 2013 18:37:22 -0700, pfraser <pete_...@comcast.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> evergene wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Similar to poutine fries, except instead of using rendered poutine fat
> >> > as the frying medium, rendered duck fat is used.
> >>
> >> That sounded narsty.
> >
> > Narsty??? Is that a word like "arse"?
> >
> >> I had assumed that "poutine" was somehow derived from "putain" (similar
> >> to pasta puttanesca), and the concept of rendered poutine fat was not
> >> particularly appetizing. Wikipidia suggests, however, that "poutine" is
> >> derived from the English "pudding".
> >
> > None of the above. FYI: The colloquial meaning of the UK term
> > "pudding" is equal to our "dessert".
> >
> > Please keep up.
>
> Not to forget, black pudding, pease pudding and Yorkshire
> pudding?

How quaint. I've always equated personalities in this ng with those
in UK.F+D and now I know I was correct.

[Hans Klager]

UK.F+D? The Goggle monster is no help.

[sf]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 17:45:53 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager

<hans....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 14 May 2013 07:45:32 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 14 May 2013 11:30:15 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
> ><hans....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Not to forget, black pudding, pease pudding and Yorkshire
> >> pudding?
> >
> > How quaint. I've always equated personalities in this ng with those
> > in UK.F+D and now I know I was correct.
>
> UK.F+D? The Goggle monster is no help.

It's a uk usenet group food + drink.

[Hans Klager]

I can only find uk.food+drink.real-ale

But, as for what is pudding? It is basically anything that
is a mixture of ingredients.

Some classes in england calle what Americans call dessert
pudding, some call it afters.

[Al Eisner]

But you should really check out the wikipedia article, which has
more detail on possible etymology, before commenting.

[James Silverton]

But the French already have a term for "Pudding", at least in its use as
a sausage: "Boudin".

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

[Steve Pope]

pfraser <pete_...@comcast.net> wrote:

>I had assumed that "poutine" was somehow derived from "putain" (similar
>to pasta puttanesca), and the concept of rendered poutine fat was not
>particularly appetizing.

And recently, the Canadians have been rendering terrorists as well.

Steve

[pfraser]

James Silverton wrote:

>
> But the French already have a term for "Pudding", at least in its use as
> a sausage: "Boudin".
>

And it sometimes correlates well with the UK usage.
e.g., boudin noir == black pudding.

[evergene]

Best stuff in the world, blood sausage. Most commercial brands are
made with powdered blood these days, rather than fresh blood, but I
don't know that I could tell the difference.
Locally available brands include Fabrique Delices and Fatted Calf
http://fabriquedelices.com/product/boudin-noir-blood-sausage/
http://www.fattedcalf.com/products/sausage/boudin-noir/

[sf]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 18:30:27 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager

<hans....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 14 May 2013 10:55:42 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 14 May 2013 17:45:53 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
> ><hans....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 14 May 2013 07:45:32 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Tue, 14 May 2013 11:30:15 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
> >> ><hans....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Not to forget, black pudding, pease pudding and Yorkshire
> >> >> pudding?
> >> >
> >> > How quaint. I've always equated personalities in this ng with those
> >> > in UK.F+D and now I know I was correct.
> >>
> >> UK.F+D? The Goggle monster is no help.
> >
> > It's a uk usenet group food + drink.
>
> I can only find uk.food+drink.real-ale
>
> But, as for what is pudding? It is basically anything that
> is a mixture of ingredients.
>
> Some classes in england calle what Americans call dessert
> pudding, some call it afters.
>

"Afters" is perfectly acceptable, IMO. Pudding is not. Even *they*
can't figure out if pudding is sweet or savory, dessert or not.

[Steve Pope]

sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 14 May 2013 18:30:27 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager

>> Some classes in england calle what Americans call dessert
>> pudding, some call it afters.

>"Afters" is perfectly acceptable, IMO. Pudding is not. Even *they*
>can't figure out if pudding is sweet or savory, dessert or not.

I've never heard "afters". Is it Tory terminology?


Steve

[pfraser]

sf wrote:

>
> Even *they*
> can't figure out if pudding is sweet or savory, dessert or not.
>

How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your pudding?

[Hans Klager]

Having eaten both, I prefer the North of England version.
But boudin noir is not to be ignored. There is a Frenchman that
sells it at the San Mateo farmer's market.

[Hans Klager]

Because they use it in context. After the main course,
pudding is obviously something like trifle. In the main course,
Yorkshire pudding is what is known in YooSA as popovers.

But if it is a mixture of ingredients, it's a pudding.

[Hans Klager]

It's a London term.

Classwise: Dessert is a lower middle class term. Pudding
upper class and afters lower class.

[Hans Klager]

Strictly speaking, meatloaf is a pudding.

[sf]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 02:58:45 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
<hans....@gmail.com> wrote:

> Classwise: Dessert is a lower middle class term. Pudding
> upper class and afters lower class.

If "pudding" is supposed to be upper class, they most assuredly are

[sf]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 19:26:24 -0700, pfraser <pete_...@comcast.net>
wrote:

:)

[Hans Klager]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 21:24:44 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 02:58:45 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
><hans....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Classwise: Dessert is a lower middle class term. Pudding
>> upper class and afters lower class.
>
> If "pudding" is supposed to be upper class, they most assuredly are
> not.

May I refer you to Debrett's "Etiquette and Modern
Manners" Published 1981:

Page 114
Pudding
It is now general practice to eat puddings with either a fork or -
if the pudding is difficult to reduce to mouth-sized pieces - with
a spoon and fork. Two exceptions to this ruke are ice cream and
sorbet, which are always eaten with a spoon.

Page 236
Ordering
It is usual to order the first and main course together and then
to order pudding or cheese when the main course has been cleared
away.

Should you wish to look further, you may want to have a
look at Jill Cooper's book "Class".

[pfraser]

Hans Klager wrote:
>
> Classwise: Dessert is a lower middle class term. Pudding
> upper class and afters lower class.
>

It may vary by country.
I was brought up working class in Scotland, and it was
always "pudding".

[Hans Klager]

My mother was a Glaswegian. They talk funny there. They
use a dialect called broad Scots. They eat funny too: Sliced
sausage, bannocks, oat cakes, etc.

But she always said pudding, but note the Scotsman heard
in the Pink Floyd song also says pudding.

Oddest phrase I recall from Glasgow: "Will ye nae hae a
wee hof?" That's English?

[pfraser]

Hans Klager wrote:

>
> My mother was a Glaswegian. They talk funny there. They
> use a dialect called broad Scots. They eat funny too: Sliced
> sausage, bannocks, oat cakes, etc.

Bannocks AND oat cakes? Surely not at the same time?

>
> Oddest phrase I recall from Glasgow: "Will ye nae hae a
> wee hof?"

What's odd about that? Just Scottish hospitality.

[Hans Klager]

Well, you may understand it. But when I first heard it I
wasn't sure, was it an equiry as to my health? Was it an
invitation for a fight? I was delighted to learn it was an offer
of a whisky.

[sf]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 06:59:03 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager

<hans....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 14 May 2013 21:24:44 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 15 May 2013 02:58:45 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
> ><hans....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Classwise: Dessert is a lower middle class term. Pudding
> >> upper class and afters lower class.
> >
> > If "pudding" is supposed to be upper class, they most assuredly are
> > not.
>
> May I refer you to Debrett's "Etiquette and Modern
> Manners" Published 1981:
>
> Page 114
> Pudding
> It is now general practice to eat puddings with either a fork or -
> if the pudding is difficult to reduce to mouth-sized pieces - with
> a spoon and fork. Two exceptions to this ruke are ice cream and
> sorbet, which are always eaten with a spoon.
>
> Page 236
> Ordering
> It is usual to order the first and main course together and then
> to order pudding or cheese when the main course has been cleared
> away.
>
> Should you wish to look further, you may want to have a
> look at Jill Cooper's book "Class".

Pudding my (classy) foot.

[James Silverton]

I've certainly come across the British question "Would you like
ice-cream for pudding?", both in books and in real time.

[sf]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 14:45:31 -0400, James Silverton
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:

> I've certainly come across the British question "Would you like
> ice-cream for pudding?", both in books and in real time.

Which doesn't make it right.

[Steve Pope]

sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 May 2013 14:45:31 -0400, James Silverton

>> I've certainly come across the British question "Would you like
>> ice-cream for pudding?", both in books and in real time.

>Which doesn't make it right.

Still, it is a familiar expression, whereas "afters" I've never
heard.


Steve

[James Silverton]

What's *wrong* about common usage in Britain?

[Steve Pope]

James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:

>On 5/15/2013 3:03 PM, Steve Pope wrote:

>> sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 15 May 2013 14:45:31 -0400, James Silverton
>>
>>>> I've certainly come across the British question "Would you like
>>>> ice-cream for pudding?", both in books and in real time.
>>
>>> Which doesn't make it right.
>>
>> Still, it is a familiar expression, whereas "afters" I've never
>> heard.

>What's *wrong* about common usage in Britain?

I've spent a reasonable amount of time in the U.K., probably
six months cumulative in London, where this term is allegedly
used, and I have never heard it.

This doesn't even count watching innumerable Dr. Who, East Enders
etc. episods and whatnot.

So I question "common usage".


Steve

[Al Eisner]

On Wed, 15 May 2013, Hans Klager wrote:

> But if it is a mixture of ingredients, it's a pudding.

Does that include cocktails? Pizza?

[James Silverton]

You are so stubborn about a trivial matter that I will suggest a look at
the results of a Google search for "ice cream for pudding".

[Hans Klager]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 12:00:29 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 14:45:31 -0400, James Silverton
><not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> I've certainly come across the British question "Would you like
>> ice-cream for pudding?", both in books and in real time.
>
> Which doesn't make it right.

If Debrett's and Jilly Cooper and common usage doesn't,
what does?




--
The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by
men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. - Louis D. Brandeis

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris02.slac.stanford.edu>,

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>On Wed, 15 May 2013, Hans Klager wrote:
>>But if it is a mixture of ingredients, it's a pudding.
>Does that include cocktails? Pizza?

People?

[Hans Klager]

Certainly common in East London. Just to help you:

http://www.britishslang.co.uk/slang/afters

What next? Questioning whether buttie or sarnie are in
common usage?

[Steve Pope]

I'm not questioning "pudding" as common usage, it's "afters"
that I'm questioning.

"Dinner then pudding" has 100 times the google hits of
"dinner then afters".

etc.

Steve

[James Silverton]

It's a misunderstanding then. I agree that I have never used "afters"
myself tho' I have heard it and I was brought up in Britain.

[spamtrap1888]

On May 14, 7:58 pm, Hans Klager <hans.kla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 00:46:40 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope
>

> <spop...@speedymail.org> wrote:

> > sf  <sf.use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>On Tue, 14 May 2013 18:30:27 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
>
> >>> Some classes in england calle what Americans call dessert
> >>> pudding, some call it afters.
>
> >>"Afters" is perfectly acceptable, IMO.  Pudding is not.  Even *they*
> >>can't figure out if pudding is sweet or savory, dessert or not.
>
> > I've never heard "afters".  Is it Tory terminology?
>
>         It's a London term.
>
>         Classwise: Dessert is a lower middle class term. Pudding
> upper class and afters lower class.
>

Reminds me when we visited friends of my mother's in Canada long ago,
I was given a "serviette." Does this have class implications in
Britain?

[Peter Lawrence]

On 5/15/13 12:34 PM, Hans Klager wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 19:16:17 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope
> <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote:
>> James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On 5/15/2013 3:03 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
>>>> sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2013 14:45:31 -0400, James Silverton
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've certainly come across the British question "Would you like
>>>>>> ice-cream for pudding?", both in books and in real time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which doesn't make it right.
>>>>
>>>> Still, it is a familiar expression, whereas "afters" I've never
>>>> heard.
>>>
>>> What's *wrong* about common usage in Britain?
>>
>> I've spent a reasonable amount of time in the U.K., probably
>> six months cumulative in London, where this term is allegedly
>> used, and I have never heard it.
>>
>> This doesn't even count watching innumerable Dr. Who, East Enders
>> etc. episods and whatnot.
>>
>> So I question "common usage".
>
> Certainly common in East London. Just to help you:
>
> http://www.britishslang.co.uk/slang/afters
>
> What next? Questioning whether buttie or sarnie are in
> common usage?

Heh, there's even an ice cream/dessert parlor chain called "Afters" in
Britain: http://www.aftersoriginal.co.uk/


- Peter

[sf]

At least with "afters" you get the general idea. Pudding could be
anything.

[sf]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 19:29:34 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
<hans....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 May 2013 12:00:29 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 15 May 2013 14:45:31 -0400, James Silverton
> ><not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> I've certainly come across the British question "Would you like
> >> ice-cream for pudding?", both in books and in real time.
> >
> > Which doesn't make it right.
>
> If Debrett's and Jilly Cooper and common usage doesn't,
> what does?
>
>

Again, common usage doesn't make it right. It's simple ignorance.

[sf]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 19:34:06 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
<hans....@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.britishslang.co.uk/slang/afters
>
> What next? Questioning whether buttie or sarnie are in
> common usage?

There you go... it's SLANG. Don't give that "upper class" BS

[Hans Klager]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 12:24:32 -0700, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2013, Hans Klager wrote:
>
>> But if it is a mixture of ingredients, it's a pudding.
>
> Does that include cocktails? Pizza?

Coccktails are a mixture of fluids to hide narsty tasting
spririts.

A pizza could be a pudding.

[Hans Klager]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 21:52:14 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 19:34:06 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
><hans....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.britishslang.co.uk/slang/afters
>>
>> What next? Questioning whether buttie or sarnie are in
>> common usage?
>
> There you go... it's SLANG. Don't give that "upper class" BS

Afters is working class, pudding is upper class. Which is
what I said originally. Then you questioned me saying puddig was
upper class. So I posted some cites from Debrett's.

Do try to keep up.

East London, is known as a working class area. If you are
going to accuse me of BS, read what I write and understand it
first.

[Hans Klager]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 12:58:18 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Reminds me when we visited friends of my mother's in Canada long ago,
> I was given a "serviette." Does this have class implications in
> Britain?

Yes, it does. I'll let sf explain it though.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <slrnkp8tnf.gj...@adeed.tele.com>,

Hans Klager <hans....@gmail.com> wrote:
>If you are going to accuse me of BS, read what I write and understand
>it first.

That sounds like work.

[evergene]

Hans Klager wrote:

> Coccktails are a mixture of fluids to hide narsty tasting
>spririts.

I don't know whether that sentiment is posh or working-class, but it's
deliriously wrong.

[Ciccio]

It's not a sentiment but a most valid observation regarding the great
majority of cocktail consumption in all classes.

Ciccio

[Hans Klager]

http://www.cocktailmixingmaster.com/cocktail_history.html



"The Prohibition that started in 1919 in the USA (a period of the
prohibition of the sale of alcohol, believe it or not!) lead to
many illegal and informal alcohol factories. In many cases the
spirits produced tasted awful and in some case were even
poisonous.


The Prohibition led to a huge illegal alcohol industry, ran by
organised crime gangs in the USA.


During the same time, “speakeasies” – bars with restaurants and
sometimes clubs – became very popular. Often, the bartenders would
mix alcohol with a number of other ingredients like creams and
juices to both hide it from the police (at least by the looks of
it) and disguise the poor taste of the alcohol.


Inevitably, mixed drinks and cocktails soared in popularity."

[Hans Klager]

The drinking of cocktails is very Anerican and tended to
cover all economic groups. In the UK in the 50s, 60s, 70s were
more a drink of the middle class. Spirits are highly taxed in most
of Europe, beer and wine not so much.

I once entered a pub in Hurstpierpoint, Sussex that sold
only beer. In the West country there were pubs that sold only beer
and cider.

The spirit drinkers of the UK that didn't just drink say
brandy and good whisky neat tened to drink whisky and soda, gin and
tonic, gin and French, vodka and lime, vodka and blackcurrent etc.

The Scandinavians when drinking spirits tend to drink
Akavit (snaps) preferably straight from the freezer to disguise
the nasty taste.

Then there are bitters, the fave of US Frat houses. Really
nartsy taste. Geoff Miller when he posted hear once refered to
Jaegermeister as "Nazi cough syrup".

[spamtrap1888]

On May 16, 10:55 am, Hans Klager <hans.kla...@gmail.com> wrote:

Herb-infused spirits were thought to have medicinal purposes, then
people developed a taste for them: Benedictine and Chartreuse from
religious orders, Cointreau and Jaegermeister came later.

[spamtrap1888]

Uggh, not Cointreau.

[Steve Pope]

sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 May 2013 19:03:20 +0000 (UTC), spo...@speedymail.org
>(Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>> sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 15 May 2013 14:45:31 -0400, James Silverton
>>
>> >> I've certainly come across the British question "Would you like
>> >> ice-cream for pudding?", both in books and in real time.
>>
>> >Which doesn't make it right.
>>
>> Still, it is a familiar expression, whereas "afters" I've never
>> heard.
>>
>At least with "afters" you get the general idea. Pudding could be
>anything.

But to me, at least "pudding" is a noun.

"afters" is not even a word: given that "after" is a preposition,
it cannot be pluralized.

The poor grammar is why I initially suspected it as Tory terminology.


Steve

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <kn3bf1$kb4$1...@blue-new.rahul.net>,

Steve Pope <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote:
>But to me, at least "pudding" is a noun.
>"afters" is not even a word: given that "after" is a preposition,
>it cannot be pluralized.
>The poor grammar is why I initially suspected it as Tory terminology.

How do you feel about elevenses?

And how do you stop a word from being pluralized? Does it require
military intervention?

[Hans Klager]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 11:54:56 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 16, 10:55 am, Hans Klager <hans.kla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 May 2013 09:33:08 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio <frances...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>         Then there are bitters, the fave of US Frat houses. Really

>> narsty taste. Geoff Miller when he posted hear once refered to

>> Jaegermeister as "Nazi cough syrup".
>>
>
> Herb-infused spirits were thought to have medicinal purposes, then
> people developed a taste for them: Benedictine and Chartreuse from
> religious orders, Cointreau and Jaegermeister came later.

Chartreuse, absinthe, Benedictine etc. taste so much
better than bitters. Bitters tend to be: Angistora, Jaegermeister,
Fernet Branca, Porse snaps, Underberg and Echt Stonsdorfer.

Old Euros used to sometimes start the day with bitters to
thin the blood. Alas as the geezers died off, so did sales -
Except for Jaeger Meister who thought: "Jesus this stuff is so
narsty, only teens and Frat boys would drink it." Smart move.

[Steve Pope]

Todd Michel McComb <mcc...@medieval.org> wrote:

>Steve Pope <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote:

>>But to me, at least "pudding" is a noun.
>>"afters" is not even a word: given that "after" is a preposition,
>>it cannot be pluralized.
>>The poor grammar is why I initially suspected it as Tory terminology.

>How do you feel about elevenses?

Pretty good, since eleven can be a noun.

>And how do you stop a word from being pluralized? Does it require
>military intervention?

Usally a good measure of nationalist socialism suffices.

Tangentially, yesterday at a standards meeting I squicked when
a contributor used "measure" to mean "measurement". Bad, bad bad.


Steve

[sf]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 19:18:57 +0000 (UTC), spo...@speedymail.org

"Afters" could be the opposite of "befores" and both encompass the
mains, but pudding is the opposite of what?

[sf]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 06:02:02 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
<hans....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 May 2013 12:58:18 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Reminds me when we visited friends of my mother's in Canada long ago,
> > I was given a "serviette." Does this have class implications in
> > Britain?
>
> Yes, it does. I'll let sf explain it though.

I know what it is and I suspect it's an old word that used to apply to
cloth, not paper.

[Hans Klager]

Good then explain what classes in the UK use the term
serviette.

[sf]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 20:46:06 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager

<hans....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 16 May 2013 13:42:45 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 16 May 2013 06:02:02 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
> ><hans....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 15 May 2013 12:58:18 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> >> <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Reminds me when we visited friends of my mother's in Canada long ago,
> >> > I was given a "serviette." Does this have class implications in
> >> > Britain?
> >>
> >> Yes, it does. I'll let sf explain it though.
> >
> > I know what it is and I suspect it's an old word that used to apply to
> > cloth, not paper.
>
> Good then explain what classes in the UK use the term
> serviette.

Why? It's not "pudding".

[Al Eisner]

But think about it. Then you could post things like "Having read your
posts three times, and carefully analyzed them, my considered judgment
is that your posts are unadulterated BS." Wouldn't that be worth
the work? (Idle hands, and all that.)
--

Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

[Al Eisner]

Excellent! That's perhaps the best "escape" in recent ba.food history.

[James Silverton]

Nancy Mitford, who popularized the terms "U" and "Non-U" for class
language, had "serviette" as one of her key shibboleths. The "U" word
was "napkin".

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

[Ciccio]

On May 16, 10:55 am, Hans Klager <hans.kla...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 16 May 2013 09:33:08 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio <frances...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On May 16, 9:05 am, evergene <g...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
> >> Hans Klager wrote:
> >> >    Coccktails are a mixture of fluids to hide narsty tasting
> >> >spririts.
>
> >> I don't know whether that sentiment is posh or working-class, but it's
> >> deliriously wrong.
>
> > It's not a sentiment but a most valid observation regarding the great
> > majority of cocktail consumption in all classes.
>
>         The drinking of cocktails is very Anerican and tended to
> cover all economic groups. In the UK in the 50s, 60s, 70s were

[SNIP SNIP SNIP]

I am posting from these UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Since that got past
you, I'll rephrase my post...It is not a sentiment, but a most valid

observation regarding the great majority of cocktail consumption in

all classes in these UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Ciccio

[tutall]

On May 16, 1:16 pm, Hans Klager <hans.kla...@gmail.com> wrote:

>         Old Euros used to sometimes start the day with bitters to
> thin the blood. Alas as the geezers died off, so did sales -
> Except for Jaeger Meister who thought: "Jesus this stuff is so
> narsty, only teens and Frat boys would drink it." Smart move.
>

And if you'd ever been in Germany, you'd have noticed the little
bottles on your table when you go out to eat where Jaeger is intended
as a post meal drink "for the stomach", a digestif.

[Hans Klager]

I have one of those little bottles of Underberg in my
booze cabinet.

Still narsty medicine. Still drunk by the old folk who are
dying off.

Talking of narsty drinks, Red Bull and vodka is a
contender.

[spamtrap1888]

Underberg: fuer den Magen nach gutem Essen

[sf]

<laughing>

[evergene]

Steve Pope wrote:

>Tangentially, yesterday at a standards meeting I squicked when
>a contributor used "measure" to mean "measurement". Bad, bad bad.

Yikes! Sounds almost like a fail, don't it.

[Steve Pope]

Bada-Bing!

S.

[evergene]

I'd go along with your definition of cocktails (although not with your
inventive history of cocktail drinking) if you replace the word
"narsty" with "undiluted." Many people simply don't like straight
spirits. I'm one of them (one of the people, that is, not one of the
straight spirits).

But more to the point, you seem to rule out the possibility that there
might be more than one way to enjoy hard liquor. If I add a spoonful
of lime cordial* to a couple of ounces of gin, or an ounce of vermouth
to a couple ounces of whisky, I'm creating a drink with a different
flavor than the flavor of the undiluted spirit. I'm not trying to hide
a narsty taste, I'm trying to soften the impact of the alcohol.

I suppose there are people who only drink brandy and whisky undiluted,
but I wouldn't touch either until dinner is over, and even then, I'd
like them better with a drop of water.

On a separate note, one of the finest contributions to the social and
cultural life of THESE HERE UNITED STATES is the Gin Fizz made with
Old Tom Gin. That's my sentiment, and Ciccio's too.

*Lime cordial is simple syrup made with fresh lime juice instead of
water. Worth the effort.
http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/case-study-building-a-better-mixer/