[PROPOSAL] Create moderated version of ba.broadcast, ba.broadcast.moderated
Mark Roberts
ba.broadcast.moderated Bay Area TV/Radio issues. (Moderated)
From the original 1992 ba.broadcast charter by Eliot Lear
<le...@yeager.corp.sgi.com>:
"This group is here for discussions, comments and program reminders about
broadcast media in the San Francisco Bay Area, both radio and
television. It also includes cable systems and TVRO/BCRO in the SF Bay
Area. It does not include scanner, ham radio or other action here in
the SF Bay Area; these may be addressed in another newsgroup at another
time. Issues of national interest should be posted to one of the groups
in rec.arts.tv or rec.radio."
Proposed 2009 updates to original ba.broadcast charter for
ba.broadcast.moderated:
The purpose of the newsgroup is to discuss the practice of broadcasting,
including programming, sales and management, engineering, broadcast
technology, and emerging trends and technologies in broadcasting and
related media.
This group is intended as a moderated alternative to the existing
newsgroup ba.broadcast. Moderation will be utilized to enforce civil
tone and on-topic content, including rejection of inappropriate
articles, and closing of existing threads if they become sufficiently
uncivil or off-topic. Uncivil tone includes insults, name-calling, and
other ad hominem attacks. Off-topic content includes that not
reasonably related to the practice of broadcasting in the Bay Area. For
example, articles that discuss how a radio host runs his or her show
would be considered on-topic. Articles that are entirely about the
contents of radio or TV shows (except in those instances where the
subject matter is actually about radio or TV) would be considered
off-topic. Such articles should instead be submitted to
alternative forums.
In addition, the following are prohibited:
* Chain letters.
* Posts in HTML.
* SPAM.
* Binaries, apart from PGP signatures, X-Face headers, and other
ancillary article meta-data.
* Forgery of valid e-mail addresses.
* Excessive morphing/nym-shifting.
* Copyright violations. Pointers to news articles, blogs, etc. on
this topic are welcome but are required to comply with fair use
standards.
* Personal attacks and flames, as defined by the moderation team.
* Links to "objectionable" web content, including pornographic sites,
sites encouraging illegal activities, or sites deemed unacceptable
by the moderation team. The moderation team will cursorily check
the contents of specific links to confirm on-topic content, but
acceptance for posting does not imply endorsement or approval of
the entire present or future contents of that web site.
* Discussion of moderation decisions. See below for information on
appealing moderator action.
Implementation and management of this new newsgroup:
If approved by the readership, the new newsgroup will be created by a
standard, PGP-signed, Usenet newgroup control message sent by the
Bay-Area Managed Hierarchy (ba.*) Administrator, Ron Escheverri:
http://usenet.trigofacile.com/hierarchies/index.py?see=BA
Usenet sites that accept such control messages automatically will create
the newsgroup immediately. Readers at other sites are requested to ask
their local administrators to create the new newsgroup manually after
the newgroup control message is posted. The moderation team will be
available to assist with this.
In order to minimize duplication of articles, and encourage wider
propagation of the new moderated newsgroup, simultaneous crossposting
between ba.broadcast and ba.broadcast.moderated will be encouraged.
Participation in this simultaneous crossposting scheme is completely
voluntary. Posters of initial articles in threads will make the
voluntary choice to add ba.broadcast.moderated and one other unmoderated
newsgroup to the Newsgroups line when posting. Those following up to
these crossposted threads will make a voluntary choice whether to keep
ba.broadcast.moderated or any other newsgroup on the Newsgroups line, or
remove them. Followups may be directed by default to any subset of the
newsgroups on the Newsgroups line (or via E-mail to "poster") by
specifying them on an appropriate Followup-To line. In short, the
readers will control what they post, where they post it, and what
default destinations they want for any followups. This proposed
crossposting scheme does not change any of these long-standing features
of Usenet and newsreader software.
The ba.broadcast.moderated moderation team will use the Secure,
Team-Based Usenet Moderation Program (STUMP) to manage the newsgroup:
http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov/stump/
To reduce the risks of technical problems and delayed or lost articles
during this proposed newsgroup's startup, the moderation team will set
up initial moderation services at Public-Access Internet and Unix, New
York City (Panix):
for the cost of $100/year. Panix already hosts several other Usenet
newsgroup moderation teams running STUMP. Members of the consultation
team below will assist with this initial installation.
Services in the Bay area were evaluated, but the team felt that they
could not be stood up quickly enough, offer necessary technical features
such as installed software tools and web site hosting like Panix, be
cost-competitive with Panix, be as reliable as Panix, or offer technical
support as responsive as Panix. Starting up at Panix for the first year
will give us 12 months of breathing room, and a reliable backup, while
we continue to seek out and evaluate Bay-area alternatives for
moderation software hosting. Further suggestions about reliable
Unix-shell Internet account services in the Bay area that could meet our
technical requirements and budget would be welcome.
The STUMP robot (or "'bot") will scan all submitted posts. Each post
will be either automatically approved, rejected, or sent to the
moderators for manual review. The moderator 'bot will enforce the
following guidelines:
* Postings must be in plain text. In particular no HTML or mixed text
and HTML posts will be allowed. Messages that are
multipart/alternative will be automatically filtered to pass just
the text/plain version to the newsgroup.
* No binary postings of any sort will be accepted. Exceptions will be
made for cryptographic signatures and such.
* Messages must not continue a thread that has been "closed" by the
moderators.
Individual posters may be temporarily banned for consistently violating
the group charter. Posters who feel that their posts have been unfairly
rejected or banned, either for specific content or by a specific
moderator, may appeal the decision. They may do so by writing the
moderation team at the Administrative Contact address below. The
moderation team will discuss and vote on the appeal and respond within
14 days if the appeal is successful. The moderation team will also
reply within 14 days to unsuccessful submitters of any appeal that is
on-topic, reasoned, civilly stated, and is not substantially an attempt
to revisit the subject matter and arguments of a previous unsuccessful
appeal.
Multiple temporary bans, attempting to circumvent the ban, or abuse of
the appeal system may result in a permanent ban.
Initial Moderation Team:
Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com>
Mark Roberts <bab...@cosmos-monitor.com>
John Higdon <hi...@kome.com>
Temporary Volunteer Moderators:
(These temporary volunteers have agreed to serve for the first 6-12
months of the newsgroup's life, during which time a list of pre-approved
or "white-listed" users will be built based on approved submissions, and
additional moderators will be recruited from the Bay-Area broadcast
community.)
Steve Bonine <s...@pobox.com> (Moderator of news.groups.proposals)
Kathy Morgan <kmo...@aptalaska.net> (Co-Chair of Big-8 Board)
Consultants:
Paul W. Schleck <psch...@novia.net>
Phil Kane <phil...@nov.shmovz.ka.pop>
Article Submissions: ba-broadcas...@panix.com
Administrative Contact: ba-broadcast-mo...@panix.com
Proponent:
Mark Roberts <bab...@cosmos-monitor.com>
Change History:
2009-05-30 1st RFD
2009-06-10 Posted to ba.broadcast and ba.config
--
Mark Roberts
Stratum101
> Initial Moderation Team:
> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com>
> Mark Roberts <babc...@cosmos-monitor.com>
> John Higdon <hi...@kome.com>
Just go, hideous people. And don't
come back. Having idiots like Eunice
and Higgerton as censors is beyond
belief. I'm glad to have done my part in
driving them away.
Wait, you deserve some kind of theme. For
a word portrait, I give you 16-year-old
Stephen Dedalus sitting in dread while
a celibrate priest long past his physical
prime lectures guilt-ridden adolescent boys
on sins of the flesh, particularly the act (never
explicitly stated) of masturbation.
For a picture portrait, I give you
Grant Wood's "American Gothic".
--
A pair of tornados passed
over here at 7:15 pm, CDT. Interesting.
I went outside after an EBS alert
on KERA-FM, scanned the sky and
saw a roundish, low black cloud moving
rapidly east-northeastward directly toward me,
and decided it was probably a tornado in
formation. However, I could not
see any rotation. I went back inside and
suddenly noticed a terrific gust outside that
blowing leaves horizontally past my window.
Lasted maybe 30 seconds accompanied by
extremely heavy rain that lasted another 15
minutes. Some component of the wind was caused
by rain pressure, but the velocity was
great enough to be dangerous to
stand any further where I'd been
standing a minute earlier.
Everyone else saw it too. It did some minor
damage just west and east of here.
See www.wfaa.com for details.
They're all talking about a 2.7 earthquake
that "rocked" the Dallas-Ft Worth area yesterday.
Not quite as fascinating to me.
Stratum101
John Slade
"Stratum101" <j.co...@cross-comp.com> wrote in message
news:feb93fdf-0407-4440...@z14g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 10, 8:17 pm, Mark Roberts <babcast-propo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Initial Moderation Team:
>
>> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com>
>> Mark Roberts <babc...@cosmos-monitor.com>
>> John Higdon <hi...@kome.com>
>
>
>
> Just go, hideous people. And don't
> come back. Having idiots like Eunice
> and Higgerton as censors is beyond
> belief. I'm glad to have done my part in
> driving them away.
I nearly hit the floor with laugher as I read the moderation team. Patty
Winter knows about the moderated group and she's still in here yammering
about staying on topic. Truly a control freak. I'm just sad that anyone
would waste their time sifting through posts on USENET. I don't think that
NG will get too much traffic though. If they keep the topic on what they
indicate in the proposal, they won't get many people. How many times have we
seen a moderated group that dies quickly after it's started?
These people remind me of Karel and power tripping IRC channel ops. I
notice they have policy of actually banning individuals. This is nothing
more than personal payback to people they don't like. I remember when Karel
was in here and they were talking about him. Karel then creates his own
ba.broadcast site because he felt people weren't supposed to talk about him
in here. It's all pretty silly to me. Especially since you can block posts
and on IRC, you can use the "ignore" command.
That being said, I'm going to enjoy reading ba.broadcast.moderated. It
will be great to see a newsgroup with absolutely no personal attacks and not
one off-topic post.
John
Stratum101
> "Stratum101" <j.coll...@cross-comp.com> wrote in message
>
> news:feb93fdf-0407-4440...@z14g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 8:17 pm, Mark Roberts <babcast-propo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Initial Moderation Team:
>
> >> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com>
> >> Mark Roberts <babc...@cosmos-monitor.com>
> >> John Higdon <hi...@kome.com>
>
> > Just go, hideous people. And don't
> > come back. Having idiots like Eunice
> > and Higgerton as censors is beyond
> > belief. I'm glad to have done my part in
> > driving them away.
>
> I nearly hit the floor with laugher as I read the moderation team. Patty
> Winter knows about the moderated group and she's still in here yammering
> about staying on topic. Truly a control freak.
In the original post,
In order to minimize duplication of articles, and encourage wider
propagation of the new moderated newsgroup, simultaneous
crossposting
between ba.broadcast and ba.broadcast.moderated will be
encouraged.
The obvious abuse by Higmonds using a newsgroup he moderates to
answer critics in ba.broadcast cannot be overlooked.
And just what *is* going on between him and Lloyd Lindsay
Young?
> I'm just sad that anyone
> would waste their time sifting through posts on USENET.
Pas moi. Usenet is the cyber equivalent of listener call-in
talk radio.
David Kaye
> These people remind me of Karel and power tripping IRC channel ops. I
> notice they have policy of actually banning individuals. This is nothing
> more than personal payback to people they don't like.
I dunno. I've been on the list for the entire process and was invited
to contribute my skills to it (but unfortunately I have absolutely no
skills in hooking up Usenet feeds). Patty has said here that she
doesn't read me, and John Higdon and I disagree on almost everything,
but yet I was included.
Splain that, Lucy.
My explanation is that it has more to do with worthwhile contributions
and lack of noise than personal disagreements.
Eric C. Weaver
> The obvious abuse by Higmonds
How old are you? 9?
cop...@hotmail.com
Exactly why this is such a good idea. Once the nonsense is gone, you
will see more broadcast professionals participate.
This newsgroup has been turned into a cesspool by a handful of
maggots. The majority of us first found this place because we wanted
to talk about broadcasting in the Bay Area. A place to do that online
without the slander, gossip and malicious crap that we've seen here
over the past several years is welcome.
You'd be amazed at the number of people working in the industry who
lurk but don't participate because of the Ras's and the Stratum's.
Good job folks! Looking forward to the new spot!
copie
chris319
ba.broadcast.moderated:
- Not all of my posts are about KGO.
- I am capable of discussing matters related to broadcast technology.
- I do not go off on loony-ass political diatribes.
- I am capable of discussing Bernie Ward and related issues rationally
and without prepending the words "the pervert" to his name (e.g. "the
pervert Bernie Ward").
- I no longer live in the market but grew up listening to KYA (me) and
KSFO (my parents) and watching National All-Star Wrestling on KTVU.
Got my start at KQED.
- Despite my personal differences with him I am eminently fair in my
evaluation of Gabbert as a call-in host.
- I am equally fair in evaluating Karel as an unlistenable call-in
host.
- I don't bicker with Higdon as much as I used to.
- I bring a little levity to the group. Very little.
Will participation in this group by by invitation only or will
attempted posts be judged on an individual basis?
Mark Roberts
Thanks for the good word. We're trying (as best we can) to have the
discussion in ba.config, which is specifically for newsgroup setup
discussions. Hence I have set the followups to that gorup.
For the record, I am not a broadcast professional. I was once, but
that was a long time ago, and not in the Bay Area. I hope
that non-professionals would also feel welcome to participate and
to contribute to a ba.broadcast.moderated.
--
Mark Roberts - E-Mail address is valid but I don't use Google Groups
If you quote, please quote only relevant passages and not the whole article.
Mark Roberts
| Will participation in this group by by invitation only or will
| attempted posts be judged on an individual basis?
Anyone could post, with each post *at the start* being reviewed by
one of the moderators. I believe there is the desire, when there's
enough of a track record, to allow posts from any individual to
go through without review, with moderation (at that point) being
applied only when a specific problem comes up with a particular
post or with a particular poster who is not following the
guidelines in the charter. From what I have seen of similar
moderation setups, it'll usually be pretty obvious when that
happens.
(Follow-ups set to ba.config.)
Phil Kane
<j.co...@cross-comp.com> wrote:
>Pas moi. Usenet is the cyber equivalent of listener call-in
>talk radio.
Only if you make it so. Some of the stuff posted to this unmoderated
group is at about the level of the BBC's "World Have Your Rant" .
We went through the transition from rec.radio.amateur policy to
rec.radio amateur.moderated and the level of noise as well as the
number of weirdo off-topic flamers and posters went way down.
--
Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR
John Higdon
<de9d1637-8a8d-4dd1...@c18g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
David Kaye <sfdavi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On that we can agree.
--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
AT&T-Free At Last
John Higdon
<bffe29ed-7e84-4ecc...@k19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
chris319 <c319...@aol.com> wrote:
> Will participation in this group by by invitation only or will
> attempted posts be judged on an individual basis?
It will be like any other moderated group: when you post to the group,
the server sends the post to the moderator who then approves your
message, which is then sent out into the Usenet wild. To both readers
and posters the process is completely transparent.
Couldn't be simpler.
Stratum101
> This newsgroup has been turned into a cesspool by a handful of
> maggots.
No fair calling me a maggot (see below). I already called
you a rat first. Nobody likes a me-too rat.
> The majority of us first found this place because we wanted
> to talk about broadcasting in the Bay Area.
I can assure you that if they talk about you at all, what
they talk about is your rat-like quality. If you walk
up and down Chenery Street -- try this experiment --
and ask the man or woman in the street about "Copeland"
without spelling your name, the response will
be, "Do you mean the composer, or do you mean
the rat?"
If a rat isn't mentioned, then it means they've never
heard of you. If they have, then a rat will
surely be mentioned.
> A place to do that online
> without the slander, gossip and malicious crap that we've seen here
> over the past several years is welcome.
Dude, you as purveyor of an uncommonly malicious piece
of crap lack a sense of irony!
> You'd be amazed at the number of people working in the industry who
> lurk but don't participate because of the Ras's and the Stratum's.
Haven't the slightest which demon of yours this Ras is,
but speaking for the Stratum component (plural of proper
noun: Stratums; plural of common noun: strata), I am
delighted that I terrorize you so.
If you had an aesthetic, you'd probably
be unafraid to defend it. I am, after all, like the
great majority of Bay Area residents,
one of your non-listeners. I don't like
the sound of your demagogic voice.
I don't like the listener call-in talk
show format, and I don't like you.
Sniffle. Sniffle. Take it up with
with your swami.
David Kaye
> Dude, you as purveyor of an uncommonly malicious piece
> of [....]
I have a feeling you're not going to be seen much on the new
newsgroup.
Stratum101
> On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:07:36 -0700 (PDT), Stratum101
>
> >Pas moi. Usenet is the cyber equivalent of listener call-in
> >talk radio.
>
> Only if you make it so. Some of the stuff posted to this unmoderated
> group is at about the level of the BBC's "World Have Your Rant" .
>
> We went through the transition from rec.radio.amateur policy to
> rec.radio amateur.moderated and the level of noise as well as the
> number of weirdo off-topic flamers and posters went way down.
WRT ham radio, been there, done dooed it for twenty-five
plus. I wouldn't waste five seconds flaming it.
Okay, one teensy flame.
A day without KGO isn't as potentially exciting
as a day without ham radio.
Jim Collier
aka Stratum101,
ex-W6NSX
cop...@hotmail.com
lol
He's really making a great case for this new newsgroup isn't he?
haha
gvk2
> but speaking for the Stratum component (plural of proper
> noun: Stratums; plural of common noun: strata), I am
> delighted that I terrorize you so.
Hey, don't let them chase you away, we need a man endowed with your
obvious components right here...every day.
Indeed, you are the Grey Poupon of ba.broadcast. The essential element
that adds style, grace, and elegance to the base frankfurter type
discussions we engage in.
>
> I am, after all,
> one of your non-listeners. I don't like
> the sound of your demagogic voice.
> I don't like the listener call-in talk
> show format, and I don't like you.
Yes, we know you don't listen to talk radio. I'd say you are the most
vociferous non-listener KGO currently has.
Intensive non-listening, the Stratum component.
Evangelical non-listening is your forte. Why it was only a month or
two ago you told us how you bumped into a stranger, in a Los Angeles
bookstore, and told her the merit of not listening to KGO.
All things KGO, who needs it. Certainly not a man of superior
refinement, such as Stratum.
Los Angeles, and now Texas. I'm sure the non-listening gets easier
with distance.
Perhaps Florida, or even Nassau, would effect a total cure.
John Higdon
<2618eac8-7604-4ba7...@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
gvk2 <gvk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Indeed, you are the Grey Poupon of ba.broadcast. The essential element
> that adds style, grace, and elegance to the base frankfurter type
> discussions we engage in.
And, speaking of weenies, it is generally true that those who most
inspire the formation of a moderated group squeal loudly as the creation
of such a group draws nigh. It has never failed in the twenty or so
years I have been participating in Usenet.
It does seem a bit difficult to appear so superior and above it all
while whining about the worthlessness of everyone else who participates.
cop...@hotmail.com
That's hysterical!
chris319
> To both readers and posters the process is completely transparent.
It is my understanding that posters will have to wait for their posts
to clear the moderator(s) before appearing, so there will be a delay
before they appear, at least at first. As described elsewhere, after a
period of time some posters will be fast tracked and their posts will
appear immediately without moderation. Am I correct?
Of the many groups, boards and forums I post to, I have pity little
experience with moderated newsgroups.
John Higdon
<5a73aa00-5466-4089...@d25g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
chris319 <c319...@aol.com> wrote:
> It is my understanding that posters will have to wait for their posts
> to clear the moderator(s) before appearing, so there will be a delay
> before they appear, at least at first. As described elsewhere, after a
> period of time some posters will be fast tracked and their posts will
> appear immediately without moderation. Am I correct?
Pretty much. Auto-moderation that has white-lists is virtually
instantaneous. Current software simplifies the moderators job immensely.
> Of the many groups, boards and forums I post to, I have pity little
> experience with moderated newsgroups.
It's an old timey part of Usenet. Every newsgroup on every server
carries a flag, usually "y" or "m". On an unmoderated group e.g.
ba.broadcast ("y" flag), when the server receives an article from a
local poster, or even from another server, it posts the article to the
spool and passes it on to other hosts according to its established
distribution directives.
If that article is for a moderated group ("m" flag) e.g.
rec.radio.broadcasting, the server emails it to one of several
redirectors that maintain moderator lists, which in turn sends the
article to the moderator. The moderator approves the article, applying
the appropriate stamp and, in come cases, digital signature, and
introduces the article into the wild, where it behaves just like an
article posted to an unmoderated group.
It sounds arcane and complicated, but to the poster and reader, no extra
steps are taken. No muss; no fuss. All the heavy lifting is done by the
moderators and server operators. And once set up, it is all automagic.
Stratum101
Yeah, but I'm probably not much seen on the
existing newsgroup. I scan ba.broadcasting
two or three times a week and post in a
burst of two or three. In and out in a
few minutes, no waiting around.
I tend to read posters who I'm pretty
sure are going to write something
original, stoopid or anecdotal.
It would bother me if someone were glued
to his computer waiting for my latest
round. That would mean I was contributing
to his wasting his life away.
Eric C. Weaver
> And, speaking of weenies, it is generally true that those who most
> inspire the formation of a moderated group squeal loudly as the creation
> of such a group draws nigh. It has never failed in the twenty or so
> years I have been participating in Usenet.
...
Doesn't it just remind you of the hoohah about alt.dcom.telecom?
Sigh...
Stratum101
> Anyone could post, with each post *at the start* being reviewed by
> one of the moderators.
So at the start this could be an evil back
door for tormenting Eunice. Higston is
already a known tormentee. He'll certainly
check the unmoderated group when he can't
find trouble closer to home.
--
Sibelius's First is on in the finale movement
which I adore. Everybody pipe down
while I crank up the volume.
It is this little passage which he conceived circa
1896 a few years before committing to paper that
put him on the map in Europe. (The Second
which was to follow in 1902 as therarpy after a
winter of mourning the death of his child establishes
him as the foremost composer in the Nordic
countries after Grieg.)
Stratum101
> On Jun 11, 8:16 pm, Mark Roberts <markrobt+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > copi...@hotmail.com <copi...@hotmail.com> had written:
>
> I wasn't implying that only professionals should participate. I was
> only bringing up the fact that more professionals WOULD participate in
> the type of group you're forming.
>
> Having professionals and enthusiasts alike posting will make this a
> richer experience for everybody. Especially without the "George
> Orwell" pseudo slanders and the off topic character assassinations by
> wannabes and losers.
I think libel is the term you want.
It isn't libel if I tell you in front of everyone that
in a format already tailored for the brain dead that
you Brian Copeland are singularly dull. It
happens to be the truth.
Now to say that you have the scruples
of a rat might be deemed moderately
libelous by other rats.
In accordance with a stated aim of the
RFD, I am cross-posting this to ba.broadcast.
Stratum101
> (Trying for the third time to post this ... )
>
> Thanks for the hard work on this, gang, and count me in. Really
> looking forward to the moderated group.
Ah-choo. Ah-choo. Ah-choo. Okay, three gesundheits,
and Daddy's little girl can go to sleep. I'm not going
to read you any more Tolstoy tonight.
One of the nice things about these ostriches
burying their heads is that they won't have to read
any more "broadcastable" brain candy. For
instance, I think Dallas, which has blossomed
into this beautiful, leafy, politically blue city
completely different from the redneck place
where I lived briefly before and left in 1970
is a huge Bay Area story. People live
better here. They just have shitty weather
and 48 kinds of venemous snakes and
spiders. Scorpions too if you don't
keep the place clean.
Or am I the only Californian posting
here to have taken shelter from
an approaching tornado in the
past week? What they don't
tell out-of-towners is that civil
defense sirens go off all over the
place, and fortunately they
can't be confused for fire trucks.
Dunno why the local NPR station
still conducts beg-a-thons. They
just spent $18 megabucks acquiring
a second FM station. Maybe
some trillionaire over in Fort Worth
likes them. (If I'm not mistaken,
wasn't KQED-FM's last fund drive
goal for one million?)
I'm still trying to track down a
report that a major KGO advertiser
is permanently enjoined from doing
business in Texas, a state which is
well known for laxity in enforcing
unethical business practices. That
ought to be a pretty big Bay Area
story, too.