I'd Say Karel Is Gone For Good
David Kaye
were still links to him on the KGO website.
Google has a handy search function where you can search only within a
particular website for references. For instance I put the following
into Google:
karel site:kgoradio.com
This returned every reference to Karel on the KGO website that Google
has indexed. Every reference is now gone except for the past program
summaries. (And I'd think it's a safe bet that those might disappear
by the time people read this.)
The real question (well, the unreal question) is who is going to hire
someone who spouted obscenity on KGO, knowing that the FCC has levied
some hefty and highly publicized fines against stations? I'd say he'd
better be happy with the Huffington Post because that may be his main
outlet in the future.
chris319
names. About halfway down click on Karel. Up comes "DJ not found".
Ominous.
Enter "Karel" in the Google Custom Search on the KGO web site. The
links come up but the site appears to have been sanitized of all Karel
content. Even more ominous.
What a way to find out you've been let go: you've become a non-person
who never existed on the company web site.
Perhaps Karel will wind up in Beaumont, Texas? http://www.klvi.com/main.html
David Kaye
> What a way to find out you've been let go: you've become a non-person
> who never existed on the company web site.
This is the way of the world sometimes in radio. The worst case I can
remember was when Les Malloy owned KSOL 1450 (now KEST) and switched
the format from "soul" (which I guess today would be considered urban
R&B) to beautiful music. The first notice most DJs had that they were
let go was when their keys wouldn't open the door.
leansto...@democrat.com
The only problem with your theory is I heard a Karel show promo
tonight. Either Gene's show or the first two hours of John Rothman.
One of my favorite promos was Bernie singing reggae. Mike A. cuts in
with "heard later in Jamaca."
You could probably go to archive.org and see if they show the history
of the website.
<Kelly>
<leanstothel...@democrat.com> wrote:
> The only problem with your theory is I heard a Karel show promo
> tonight. Either Gene's show or the first two hours of John Rothman.
IIRC, Bernie's show promos were (accidentally?) played even after he
was definitely fired. I think someone in here posted something about
it.
<Kelly>
> When Bernie Ward was suspended from KGO prior to being fired, there
> were still links to him on the KGO website.
>
> Google has a handy search function where you can search only within a
> particular website for references. For instance I put the following
> into Google:
>
> karel site:kgoradio.com
>
> This returned every reference to Karel on the KGO website that Google
> has indexed. Every reference is now gone except for the past program
> summaries. (And I'd think it's a safe bet that those might disappear
> by the time people read this.)
If he was fired, Karel's playing it dumb on his website and still
insists he was only suspended. He does, however, have a picture of a
painting of a naked guy with an arrow straight through him above the
entry. Oh, and BTW, Karel's been reading all of the stuff about him
here. Big surprise.
> The real question (well, the unreal question) is who is going to hire
> someone who spouted obscenity on KGO, knowing that the FCC has levied
> some hefty and highly publicized fines against stations?
Don't the LA stations thrive on obscenity spouting loose cannons like
Karel? Take Tom Leykis for instance: KFYI *still* won't talk about
why he was fired from that station in Phoenix 20 years ago and look
what he's gone on to "achieve".
If Karel *is* fired, I can just imagine him putting Queen's Greatest
Hits on the stereo and singing "Bohemian Rhapsody" at the top of his
lungs (with tears streaming down his cheeks for effect)...
Mama, said I wanna kill a man,
Put a gun against his head,
Pull my trigger and he's dead.
Good bye everybody,
I've got to go,
Gotta leave KGO behind and deny the truth...
Maybe he can record it on his video camera and post it on his
website... ;-)
Laura M
> If Karel *is* fired, I can just imagine him putting Queen's Greatest
> Hits on the stereo and singing "Bohemian Rhapsody" at the top of his
> lungs (with tears streaming down his cheeks for effect)...
>
> Mama, said I wanna kill a man,
> Put a gun against his head,
> Pull my trigger and he's dead.
> Good bye everybody,
> I've got to go,
> Gotta leave KGO behind and deny the truth...
>
> Maybe he can record it on his video camera and post it on his
> website... ;-)
Thanks for the great morning chuckle!
Patty Winter
In article <83daf579-7d1d-4361...@d42g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
<Kelly> wrote:
>
>If he was fired, Karel's playing it dumb on his website and still
>insists he was only suspended. He does, however, have a picture of a
>painting of a naked guy with an arrow straight through him above the
>entry.
Umm, that would be Saint Sebastian. I just looked at Karel's website,
and did some quick Googling, and that particular representation of
The Martyrdom of Saint Sebastian was done by Francois-Xavier Fabre.
Egotistical, much? (BTW, a quick plug here for Debussy's choral-and-
narration work about Sebastian. I have the version done by Leonard
Berntstein and Fritz Weaver, and it's amazing. I haven't thought of
it in years; will have to dig it out. But I digress.... :-) )
>Oh, and BTW, Karel's been reading all of the stuff about him
>here. Big surprise.
In fact, he reproduced an entire posting from this group. I wonder
whether he obtained the permission of the author (who, of course,
holds the copyright on the posting).
BTW, KPIX's late news last night had a story about this. They
played the audio from KGO (minus the expletives, of course),
and cited the Wall Street Journal as the source of their story
about Karel being off the air. Turns out it isn't in the WSJ
per se, but in one of their blogs. Given that blogs, even on
websites of respected news sources, do not undergo the same
scrutiny as the actual printed or on-air stories do, I don't
think it was appropriate for PIX to attribute the story to
the WSJ itself. But that's another discussion...
Patty
John Higdon
<a5ced25c-b94e-4dd6...@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
"leansto...@democrat.com" <leansto...@democrat.com> wrote:
> The only problem with your theory is I heard a Karel show promo
> tonight. Either Gene's show or the first two hours of John Rothman.
Promos are elements of a complex web of traffic that is loaded into the
computer well in advance. While a great deal of effort is spent manually
culling material that for whatever reason shouldn't be aired as
scheduled, things do slip through the slats and this sort of thing would
be low priority.
As you will recall, there were Bernie promos from time to time after his
legal difficulties began. My point is: don't use the hearing of a promo
as an indicator of white or black smoke from the stove.
--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
Bhairitu
Ciccio
> This morning:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27574698
OK, he said: "I am deeply sorry, that went out."...Not good enough.
It sounds like a criminal who is sorry he got caught. Thus, when I
hear or read an apology from him to Mr. Wurzelbacher that Karel is
"sorry it went out" because it added to Mr. Wurzelbacher's public
humiliation," then maybe consider cutting Karel some slack.
Ciccio
paul secic
Although I like Karal he should be fired outright for what he said. I
heard what he said.
John Higdon
<c6d18e09-df1b-433e...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
> OK, he said: "I am deeply sorry, that went out."...Not good enough.
> It sounds like a criminal who is sorry he got caught. Thus, when I
> hear or read an apology from him to Mr. Wurzelbacher that Karel is
> "sorry it went out" because it added to Mr. Wurzelbacher's public
> humiliation," then maybe consider cutting Karel some slack.
I'll listen to it again, but my recollection is that is pretty much what
he said. Karel's "crime" is incorrectly assuming that the mic was clear,
and could only be heard in the KGO studio. That being his crime, of
course he got "caught", thousands of listeners having heard the result.
His apology was to the listeners who heard something he never meant for
them to hear. I'd say that's adequate, no?
As someone who works around supposedly "dead" microphones everyday, I
have this paranoia that somehow one of them might be accidently
connected to a live program bus, so I don't say things in those rooms
that could put a station's license at risk. But that's just me...not a
rule, law, or even policy.
Ciccio
> In article
> <c6d18e09-df1b-433e-b0a7-cea69945e...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
> I'll listen to it again, but my recollection is that is pretty much what
> he said. Karel's "crime" is incorrectly assuming that the mic was clear,
> and could only be heard in the KGO studio. That being his crime, of
> course he got "caught", thousands of listeners having heard the result.
> His apology was to the listeners who heard something he never meant for
> them to hear. I'd say that's adequate, no?
No, it's not. Of course, apologizing to the listeners TOO, is fine. It
is, Mr. Wurzelbacher, however, to whom Karel owes an apology for
adding to his grief. Otherwise, it's sorta like blowing a stop sign,
colliding with another, and only apologizing to those inconvenienced
by traffic jam, but ignoring the injured party in the other car.
> As someone who works around supposedly "dead" microphones everyday, I
> have this paranoia that somehow one of them might be accidently
> connected to a live program bus, so I don't say things in those rooms
> that could put a station's license at risk. But that's just me...not a
> rule, law, or even policy.
Well then you are a professional and prudent. It's rather like when
one handles firearms...There's no such thing as an unloaded firearm.
Ciccio
Lawrence Statton
> As someone who works around supposedly "dead" microphones everyday, I
> have this paranoia that somehow one of them might be accidently
> connected to a live program bus, so I don't say things in those rooms
> that could put a station's license at risk. But that's just me...not a
> rule, law, or even policy.
>
When I was young and charming .....
KIXE got a new Character Generator - a Quanta Q8. Kevin and I were
playing around with all of the features it had, and other fun things,
and we left a naughty "message" to one of the other PAs in one of the
stored pages.
One of the managers (I can't now remember if it was Dean or Mike)
pulled me aside and asked,
"Have you ever made a mistake while running CG and put up the wrong
page?"
"Sure, everyone does..."
"You're right, everyone does ... and it's usually no big deal. But
if that message you left for Cheech had gone out on air, we could have
been in trouble. Be careful what you are doing with any piece of
equipment connected to the air-chain, because sooner or later,
EVERYTHING gets transmitted."
Another story along the same lines:
If the weather at the transmitter site was *REALLY* cold, SOP was to
leave the transmitter on all night w/ bars&tone to keep things warm.
One snowy Sunday, an air op came in before his shift (Sundays we went
on the air quite late -- 11am or Noon) to watch some satellite porn,
and invited a few of his cannibis smoking pals to join him in the
control room. They put "Net 4" on the preview bus of the main
switcher, and threw the line monitor over to its "B" input (which was
the preview bus) so everyone could get a better look.
At this moment, there is no monitor in the main bank showing either
off-air or line.
One (never named) person leaned over the panel to get a closer look
"Are those fake?" and hit the "take" button.
Half an hour later, he got a call from the transmitter operating
asking if he'd seen the "Off Air" monitor recently, and if he intended
to do anything about it.
--L
craig4326
negligent in leaving the mic open, then I guess that would be
actionable. But if someone in the KGO studio left his mic hot, then
how can they fire him?
Ciccio
It comes down to would a reasonable and prudent broadcast professional
do what Karel did? Based upon what Higdon has said, the answer is NO.
Likewise, if the "someone" in the KGO studio negligently left the mic
on. Then they both are liable.
Ciccio
gvk...@yahoo.com
A mic is always "hot" just as Karel's brain is always bouncing around
like a bowl full of Jello in a paint can shaker.
The word for Karel is "professional"-------NOT!
David Kaye
>
> This morning:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27574698
I had to look at the website. This is the best photo I've ever seen
of him. He looks like a cross between a rock star and a serial
killer. He'd probably fit in just fine in a metal band. I wonder if
Death Angel is hiring? But they wouldn't want to replace the lovely
Mark Osegueda with the likes of Karel. Oh well...
Meanwhile, KGO is getting unwanted scrutiny. This is not a good thing
for the station which had been considered a class act.
David Kaye
> OK, he said: "I am deeply sorry, that went out."...Not good enough.
> It sounds like a criminal who is sorry he got caught.
Indeed it would have been better to have said, "I'm deeply sorry I
SAID that," which would own up to the deed rather than the fact that
it was accidentally heard. However, I doubt that Karel is sorry that
he said it.
Bhairitu
I would bet there are a lot of things said "off air" that many hosts
would be in trouble for if it somehow got out over the air. Probably it
has been pure luck that this hasn't happened to some of them. Which
leads me to say listening to various stations including KGO more mics
left open bleeding into the commercial than I ever used to hear. Is
this due to less competent people running things?
David Kaye
> It comes down to would a reasonable and prudent broadcast professional
> do what Karel did? Based upon what Higdon has said, the answer is NO.
> Likewise, if the "someone" in the KGO studio negligently left the mic
> on. Then they both are liable.
See, the thing is that the mic line from Karel to KGO is always on in
the control room from some period before the beginning of his show
until the end of his show. You always want to listen in on a remote
line to make sure it's still up because it can become unplugged or go
dead at any time.
The reason I say this is because Karel *knew* that he was talking to
the KGO studio. I contend that his outburst was a bravado show for
the benefit of the board op (who apparently is new?) to show them that
Karel was "outraged" at the ABC news story then going out over the
air.
I mean, heck, if he thought nobody was listening would he have said
anything at all? Of course not. Sane people do not rant to
themselves....oh....wait...a minute...
What I'm saying is that Karel's bravado and obnoxiousness is what got
him into trouble. Any true professional in the business would simply
not say such things because mics accidentally go live all the time.
Is it really so hard for a talkshow host to act in a civil manner?
Ian Zellick, the late assistant manager of KTVU once told me, "You
know, there's a responsibility to the audience. Here you are trying
to prepare a good show and the audience turns on the TV and your
production rolls out like a crate of oranges onto their floor. It had
better look good because you'll be judged by how good it looks."
Karel and especially KGO did not look good.
craig4326
> I contend that his outburst was a bravado show for
> the benefit of the board op (who apparently is new?) to show them that
> Karel was "outraged" at the ABC news story then going out over the
> air.
I know absolutely nothing about the technical aspect of radio, but
your assumption is wrong. Karel simultaneously broadcasts his show
from his own site the same time he's on KGO. That's where I've
listened to him before because he talks and comments to the audience
during the breaks. That is why my original question about the open
mic. I've heard him communicate with the board op back in the studio
many times before he comes back on air so I know there must be some
procedure. Yes his comments were meant for an audience, but not that
listening to KGO, but instead the live feed from his site.
leansto...@democrat.com
> In article <83daf579-7d1d-4361-ab07-4e058ee26...@d42g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
There are a number of websites that routinely steal usenet traffic for
"content", then slap on a few internet ads. There are enough that
probably they make money. Similarly, there are "aggregators" that
create RSS feeds of other organizations forums.
leansto...@democrat.com
> In article
> <c6d18e09-df1b-433e-b0a7-cea69945e...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>
You have common sense, Karel doesn't. In this day and age, you can't
pick your nose without being caught on camera.
<Kelly>
> This returned every reference to Karel on the KGO website that Google
> has indexed. Every reference is now gone except for the past program
> summaries. (And I'd think it's a safe bet that those might disappear
> by the time people read this.)
Here's what is being said by Randall about the incident on Karel's
website/message board:
"There is little point in speculating Sladester, what happens will
happen and we'll find out soon enough. Karel's NAME is still on the
KGO site, just not his mini promo page with the links to his web site,
that could mean something or nothing at all- when you are suspended
ALL privileges stop, if you are cop you turn in your gun and badge
during a suspension- that doesn't mean anything either.
The suspension could be a week two, or a month, only the station knows
their plans but since it's been months with the one time slot open
still not filled by a permanent host, I doubt they will want two open
time slots to have to fill.
Someone said they searched the KGO site and found no ref's ofKarel, I
don't think there were any past that mini promo page ON that site,
each talk show host has a mini promo page and that's all, their name
only shows up in the show programming schedules and if they are
scheduled for some special event KGO is promoting like the marathon.
ALl I see gone is the mini promo page, the link to it is still there.
The insignificant little incident will not bring an FCC fine as it was
not intentional and was clearly an accident, it might very well result
in some policy changes, such as; requiring hosts be physically in the
studio facing the engineer thru the glass so there is a visual contact
between them, that would make perfect sense but it would also mean
some lifestyle difficulties for Karel.
It is important to remember that it is 100% the engineer's job to
control what goes out on the air since the host can never know if a
caller or guest may suddenly start cursing or making comments the FCC
would fine over- Karel is completely innocent- the comments could have
been made by a caller or even a guest in the studio and Karel would
have had no control over either- the engineer's job is to catch the
unexpected, but if he is new or being supervised during training, or
steps away from the console for a bathroom emergency, that's not the
host's fault.
Fact is Karel IS #1 talk show host in his time slot and the
advertisers on his show love him because he goes far beyond the extra
mile for each of them giving them extra attention and air time beyond
what they expect.
Sometimes controversy is a good thing, even if it's negative- it gets
people talking and calling.
Whether Karel continues at this one station or not doesn't matter,
theres thousands of stations- he is a talented entertainer and has had
offers with other stations before, but has a contract with KGO.
I don't believe Karel owes anyone an apology for any more than the
error of this going on the air and he did apologise for that, he has
the right to have his personal views and opinions in anger or not,
literal or not, intended or not and if someone is offended by his
words thoughts or views- too bad- no apology is due to somene if they
are "offended"- people need to grow up and stop demanding apologies
for the slightest thing."
Uhh - okaaayyy...
I have yet to figure out what Randall's interest in Karel really is -
he lives in Iowa and can't hear anything other than streaming of KGO
from their website. For whatever reason, this guy defends Karel to
the nth degree - as evidenced by his subjective take on Karel's latest
KGO debacle.
Rod Hall
<gvk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
A mic is always "hot" just as Karel's brain is always bouncing around
like a bowl full of Jello in a paint can shaker.
The word for Karel is "professional"-------NOT!
Broadcast radio is slowly dying, the internet is the new venue for
broadcasters. No restrictions, no fear of huge fines, loss of employment and
thousands of dollars cheaper.
David Kaye
> The insignificant little incident will not bring an FCC fine as it was
> not intentional and was clearly an accident,
Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" was unintentional as well, but
the FCC still fined CBS anyhow.
I suspect that KGO is holding off on firing Karel pending FCC
actions. If the FCC assesses a $325,000 fine, I'd say he's a goner.
If they do nothing, who knows, they may have him back. I think the
FCC will indeed fine KGO because the station is on a delay (even
during the news within the talkshows) and thus the board op should
have caught it. And everybody knows that you don't spew obscenities
and profanities around a mic. It wasn't an like someone hitting their
thumb with a hammer and yelling an expletive. It was a willful
uttering of expletives.
Patty Winter
In article <e97d237c-da31-423a...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
<Kelly> wrote:
>
>The insignificant little incident will not bring an FCC fine as it was
>not intentional and was clearly an accident
Err, are you talking about the same FCC I've been reading about
the past few years?
> it might very well result
>in some policy changes, such as; requiring hosts be physically in the
>studio facing the engineer thru the glass so there is a visual contact
>between them, that would make perfect sense but it would also mean
>some lifestyle difficulties for Karel.
Not to mention Dean Edell and Bill Wattenburg.
Patty
David Kaye
> I know absolutely nothing about the technical aspect of radio, but
> your assumption is wrong. Karel simultaneously broadcasts his show
> from his own site the same time he's on KGO.
I didn't know that he's feeding the show to his website directly from
his studio. KGO owns the show, not Karel. I'd think this is a
violation of his contract to send his show directly because it means
that KGO has no control over the show. This would be similar to KGO
taking Dr. Dean Edell directly from his studio rather than taking it
from Premiere, the syndicator.
> That is why my original question about the open
> mic. I've heard him communicate with the board op back in the studio
> many times before he comes back on air so I know there must be some
> procedure. Yes his comments were meant for an audience, but not that
> listening to KGO, but instead the live feed from his site.
I never said he intended his comments to go out to the KGO audience.
In fact I've said OVER AND OVER again that he made the comments for
the edification of his board op (whom I assumed was the only person
able to listen in before you mentioned that he feeds his website
listeners directly).
As for how radio audio works, it's like this: There are three
(sometimes more) channels in a typical radio console, "progarm",
"cue", and "audition". Program audio goes to the transmitter. Cue
audio is used as a "rough-cut" check to see that an audio source is
on, and Audition is identical to program, and is used as a backup to
program audio or for recordings or to feed websites, etc.
Depending on station policies, remote audio (such as Karel's) is
either put into cue or audition. The difference is that cue is
usually exclusive -- you can't have an audio source in cue and program
simultaneously. But cue is usually dirty audio, used only for
checking. It usually has a cheap amplifier and no volume control for
individual sources.
Some stations require their board ops to use cue for checking and
monitoring audio sources EXACTLY so that the Karel problem doesn't
happen, because it's either in cue or in program, but never in both.
But some stations allow audition to be used because you can set
individual levels for each audio source and the amplifier is as good
as the progarm amplifier. The problem is that in most consoles a
source can be put into both program and audition at the same time.
This is dangerous if the board op is listening to the audition channel
and not the program channel.
It is common practice to always listen to remotes and network feeds
during breaks to make sure that they're still there when coming back
from the break. So, it's likely that the board op heard the audio
thinking it was in audition and didn't realize it was on-air.
I'm saying all of this not remembering exactly how KGO's boards are
configured. So shoot me if I'm wrong on this. But my explanation is
typical.
Rod Hall
"Patty Winter" <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote in message
>>in some policy changes, such as; requiring hosts be physically in the
>>studio facing the engineer thru the glass so there is a visual contact
>>between them, that would make perfect sense but it would also mean
>>some lifestyle difficulties for Karel.
>
> Not to mention Dean Edell and Bill Wattenburg.
>
>
> Patty
>
Let us not forget Mr Technology himself Leo Laporte who remotes from his
studio in Petaluma.
leansto...@democrat.com
I recall there was an argument accepted by the FCC made that the F-
bomb could be dropped if appropriate. For instance, a car bomb goes
off and someone shouts WTF.
<Kelly>
> In article <e97d237c-da31-423a-a8b5-b1451748e...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> <Kelly> wrote:
>
> >The insignificant little incident will not bring an FCC fine as it was
> >not intentional and was clearly an accident
>
> Err, are you talking about the same FCC I've been reading about
> the past few years?
Yeah...see, that wasn't me who wrote that, Patty - it was Karel's
message board sheriff who said that on Karel's website. What Randall
repeated is likely what Karel told him to say. You know, "it's not my
fault and even if it was, the FCC won't do anything about it" - or
something along those lines.
> > it might very well result
> >in some policy changes, such as; requiring hosts be physically in the
> >studio facing the engineer thru the glass so there is a visual contact
> >between them, that would make perfect sense but it would also mean
> >some lifestyle difficulties for Karel.
>
> Not to mention Dean Edell and Bill Wattenburg.
That's the story that Karel is likely telling his msg board admin,
Randall - whether it's true or not remains to be seen, I imagine.
leansto...@democrat.com
It's not that hard to be number one in your time slot if you are on
KGO. The station has the "big mo'."
I can't imagine a sponsor being all that thrilled with a live spot
from Karel. After all, the customer will look at the source and
associate their product with the host.
<Kelly>
<leanstothel...@democrat.com> wrote:
> It's not that hard to be number one in your time slot if you are on
> KGO. The station has the "big mo'."
The "big mo' "?
> I can't imagine a sponsor being all that thrilled with a live spot
> from Karel. After all, the customer will look at the source and
> associate their product with the host.
But ask Karel's message board admin, and this "will fade away in a few
days" (let me make this clear - the following is not from me, but from
Karel's msg board administrator)
"Well Sladester, I don't see KGO cowing down to public pressure- the
show is #1 in the timeslot and that's difficult to replicate, this
incident like every other one will fade away in a few days and the
next new target will hit the media and in a couple of weeks it won't
even get a mention.
People get bored with something like this fast when they play it all
out and there's no where else to go but repeating the same crap.
There's far more important things to be hashing out that some talk
show host's words during the news- half of which had been talked over
by the news reporter so bad I couldn't even tell what was said, in
fact I missed the whole thing as I only heard gibberish for a bit and
don't normally listen to the news anyway and had no idea what was
said.
If you knew Karel well you'd have known it was nothing more than
frustration,he was either mouthing to himself like we ALL do, or he
was bullshitting around with his engineer- but since they can't see
one another Karel surely didn't know he had stepped away from the
console and had left the mic hot.
metaphorically speaking as he was; "I want X dead" is not the same as
"I'm going to make you dead" or "Watch out because I know where you
are and you are dead", we ALL have someone in our lives somewhere
sometime we wanted, wished for hoped for to be dead, in the hospital,
beaten up or whatever- doesnt matter if it's the guy who robbed your
house and stole everything you valued, or the man who raped your wife/
sister/mom etc, we ALL have someone we metaphorically think or say to
ourselves we want them dead, run over by a bus, strung up or whatever-
don't tell me that's not so!"
Whatever - lol
chris319
> he lives in Iowa and can't hear anything other than streaming of KGO
> from their website. For whatever reason, this guy defends Karel to
> the nth degree
Kelly -
Do you suppose "Randall" and Karel could be the SAME PERSON? This is
what is commonly known as a "sock puppet".
John Higdon
<ccfd0967-6b5e-4afd...@b31g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
> No, it's not. Of course, apologizing to the listeners TOO, is fine. It
> is, Mr. Wurzelbacher, however, to whom Karel owes an apology for
> adding to his grief. Otherwise, it's sorta like blowing a stop sign,
> colliding with another, and only apologizing to those inconvenienced
> by traffic jam, but ignoring the injured party in the other car.
What expectation would Karel have that Mr. Wurzelbacher would have heard
his apology spoken on the air? Answer: the same as Mr. W hearing the
malevolent wish, i.e. little to none. In other words, it would be a
low-level consideration. KGO's signal does not reach the midwest.
BayAreaB...@gmail.com
>
> Ciccio <frances...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > No, it's not. Of course, apologizing to the listeners TOO, is fine. It
> > is, Mr. Wurzelbacher, however, to whom Karel owes an apology for
> > adding to his grief. Otherwise, it's sorta like blowing a stop sign,
> > colliding with another, and only apologizing to those inconvenienced
> > by traffic jam, but ignoring the injured party in the other car.
>
> What expectation would Karel have that Mr. Wurzelbacher would have heard
> his apology spoken on the air? Answer: the same as Mr. W hearing the
> malevolent wish, i.e. little to none. In other words, it would be a
> low-level consideration. KGO's signal does not reach the midwest.
>
Most people are hearing the remarks via youtube, news clips, etc.,
rather
than hearing the live broadcast.
An on-air personal apology might have also helped.
chris319
> I didn't know that he's feeding the show to his website directly from
> his studio. KGO owns the show, not Karel. I'd think this is a
> violation of his contract to send his show directly because it means
> that KGO has no control over the show.
Do we know if Karel even has a contract? In order to feed his KGO show
down his own web stream he would need a contract giving him permission
from Citadel to do so, and I would be shocked if Citadel would ever
agree to such a thing. You are absolutely correct, Citadel would have
no control over the content Karel streamed out. Forget about
profanity, suppose Karel said something slanderous and an alert KGO
producer blooped it from KGO's air but it went out on Karel's web
stream. Now suppose the slandered party files suit. Of course Karel
would be named as a defendant, but wait a minute! Citadel is the
copyright holder (and they have deeper pockets) so now Citadel is
named as co-defendant. It would be insane for Citadel/KGO to agree to
something like that for a fill-in host. Besides, if Karel is streaming
the output of his backyard studio, how would web listeners hear the
callers which are mixed in at KGO? Perhaps that is why he is so short
with them.
If I were Jack Swanson (himself a lawyer) and I got wind that Karel
was streaming his KGO show on his own web site without permission,
forget what he said about Joe the Plumber. I would get Karel on the
next plane to SFO so I could personally boot his ass out the door of
KGO so fast it would make his bouncy, jiggly, Jello-filled head spin.
Karel would be lucky if I didn't next place a call to Citadel legal.
All of the above is just my humble opinion.
John Higdon
<2b4c31ba-beb7-4ac3...@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
chris319 <c319...@aol.com> wrote:
> If I were Jack Swanson (himself a lawyer) and I got wind that Karel
> was streaming his KGO show on his own web site without permission,
> forget what he said about Joe the Plumber. I would get Karel on the
> next plane to SFO so I could personally boot his ass out the door of
> KGO so fast it would make his bouncy, jiggly, Jello-filled head spin.
> Karel would be lucky if I didn't next place a call to Citadel legal.
>
> All of the above is just my humble opinion.
That's good, since Jack is well aware of Karel and other KGO hosts who
independently stream.
It may surprise you to know that the managers at KGO actually do know
what is going on at the station.
John Higdon
<c875571b-af56-4e27...@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
BayAreaB...@gmail.com wrote:
> Most people are hearing the remarks via youtube, news clips, etc.,
> rather
> than hearing the live broadcast.
>
> An on-air personal apology might have also helped.
He did apologize on the air. He apologized to the same people who heard
the remarks. If that apology was snipped from the clips on news stories,
YouTube, and other venues, Karel has no control over that. Do you really
feel that those who are dancing up and down about "profanity" and "death
threats" are just about to include his apology along with the
titillating clips of his evil transgressions?
chris319
> Jack is well aware of Karel and other KGO hosts who independently stream.
And he permits it? Are they streaming the complete KGO air product or
web product including callers, commercials, network news, local news,
etc.?
Give us the URL of one KGO host's independent stream besides Karel's.
If it's for public consumption it can't be a secret.
> It may surprise you to know that the managers at KGO actually do know
> what is going on at the station.
If they're streaming independently as you say, then it isn't taking
place at the station.
John Higdon
<92296f24-2630-484b...@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com>,
chris319 <c319...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 12:21 am, John Higdon <HisRoyalRadioHign...@kome.com> wrote:
> > Jack is well aware of Karel and other KGO hosts who independently stream.
>
> And he permits it? Are they streaming the complete KGO air product or
> web product including callers, commercials, network news, local news,
> etc.?
KGO streams its own product 24/7, which includes almost everything with
some commercials replaced due to contractual arrangements. Karel streams
his program from his own studio, which includes only the material that
comes from his own studio at home (no commercials, news, promos or any
other KGO material).
> If they're streaming independently as you say, then it isn't taking
> place at the station.
Yes, I would say that is a reasonable assumption. I'm not sure I
understand your point.
leansto...@democrat.com
>
> BayAreaBroadc...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Most people are hearing the remarks via youtube, news clips, etc.,
> > rather
> > than hearing the live broadcast.
>
> > An on-air personal apology might have also helped.
>
> He did apologize on the air. He apologized to the same people who heard
> the remarks. If that apology was snipped from the clips on news stories,
> YouTube, and other venues, Karel has no control over that. Do you really
> feel that those who are dancing up and down about "profanity" and "death
> threats" are just about to include his apology along with the
> titillating clips of his evil transgressions?
>
> --
> John Higdon
> +1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
Karel can't upload his on air apology? Must be a Mac issue.
Phoeni...@yahoo.com
I don't think he made one, The comments were made & broadcast over the
air after his show was over.
leansto...@democrat.com
The "big mo" is loosely a term used in presidential elections. Once
you win a few primaries, you have the big mo', where mo' is short for
momentum. I can't remember who coined it and google is pretty useless
(too many false hits). The term is more or less generic these days. If
you have the big mo, even mediocrity is successful. You keep winning
because people like winners.
Here is a non-political example. Pick a company like Sony or Apple.
Because these companies are high profile, whatever they toss on the
market doesn't need to be great to attract attention. A lesser company
could introduce a better product, but they don't have the track record
of the companies with the big mo'.
Now KGO has the big mo'. You put up some mediocre host, say Karel, and
he succeeds because the station is a known entity. If you put Karel on
say KYCY, he would attract no listeners. Look at the Weiner. Big stuff
on KGO, big stuff on KSFO, and back to obscurity on KNEW. KNEW has no
ratings, no big mo'.
Now KGO has had some real stinkers in that weekend slot. George Weber
comes to mind, though I'm sorry I've dissed him since he sounds great
doing the ABC network news. But he was boring as a talk show host.
David Gold is another example. So even with the big mo', you can't be
a total dud.
Karel is easily replaced. There is much better talent on deck. There
has to be undiscovered talent out there too. Look at how Thom Hartman
came out of nowhere. Rachel Maddow is another great talent that AAR
cultivated. She gets better rating than Mathews.
If I may paraphrase Molly Ivins, stick a fork in Karel, he's done.
pete
the mike was off. The late, great Pete Wilson often spoke his mind
thinking he was off-air, but he luckily never used profanity laden
thoughts in the process.
BTW. Ronn Owens just said Karel's been indefinitely suspended. He said
the station had to do it for appearances for the FCC; they have no
choice but to do so. He doesn't know whether he'll be back or not.
paul secic wrote:
> Although I like Karal he should be fired outright for what he said. I
> heard what he said.
<Kelly>
Got it. Thanks for the explanation.
> If I may paraphrase Molly Ivins, stick a fork in Karel, he's done.
I agree.
<Kelly>
> Do you suppose "Randall" and Karel could be the SAME PERSON? This is
> what is commonly known as a "sock puppet".
No. While I think it's entirely possible that Karel would fawn all
over himself in sock-mode the way Randall does, I'm certain that
Randall is a real person (for a number of reasons).
Besides, it appears that Karel no longer takes part in, posts to, or
even reads his own message board - this is according to the website.
<shrug>
redleg
> Patty Winter wrote:
> > In article <83daf579-7d1d-4361-ab07-4e058ee26...@d42g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> > �<Kelly> wrote:
> >> If he was fired, Karel's playing it dumb on his website and still
> >> insists he was only suspended. �He does, however, have a picture of a
> >> painting of a naked guy with an arrow straight through him above the
> >> entry. �
>
> > Umm, that would be Saint Sebastian. I just looked at Karel's website,
> > and did some quick Googling, and that particular representation of
> > The Martyrdom of Saint Sebastian was done by Francois-Xavier Fabre.
> > Egotistical, much? (BTW, a quick plug here for Debussy's choral-and-
> > narration work about Sebastian. I have the version done by Leonard
> > Berntstein and Fritz Weaver, and it's amazing. I haven't thought of
> > it in years; will have to dig it out. But I digress.... :-) )
>
> >> Oh, and BTW, Karel's been reading all of the stuff about him
> >> here. �Big surprise.
>
> > In fact, he reproduced an entire posting from this group. I wonder
> > whether he obtained the permission of the author (who, of course,
> > holds the copyright on the posting).
>
> > BTW, KPIX's late news last night had a story about this. They
> > played the audio from KGO (minus the expletives, of course),
> > and cited the Wall Street Journal as the source of their story
> > about Karel being off the air. Turns out it isn't in the WSJ
> > per se, but in one of their blogs. Given that blogs, even on
> > websites of respected news sources, do not undergo the same
> > scrutiny as the actual printed or on-air stories do, I don't
> > think it was appropriate for PIX to attribute the story to
> > the WSJ itself. But that's another discussion...
>
> > Patty
>
> This morning:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27574698- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Good, Karel is gone. Now we need to work on Talifero. Once he is gone,
the social cleansing on KGO will be complete. Then we can turn to
paving over the Castro, and deal with the final solution for the gay
problem.
W B Reese
I was an on-air announcer from about 1967 until about 1976. On my
first job my boss Al Endicott told me that hell and damn belonged to
the preachers. He said if it wasn't fit for my grandmother to listen
to, it didn't belong on the air.
During my career on more than one occasion, my fellow announcers have
cursed and in those days, it was not a matter of discussion. I was
always amazed at the attitudes of the perpatrators who generally
thought it was "no big deal."
One story I remember was at WBZ the transmitter was supposed to have a
pattern change when it entered night coverage. One of the engineers
wasn't paying attention and he was late hitting the button. My friend
Bill, a fellow announcer who witnessed it said the fellow entered it
in the log, went to the wall and took down his First Phone and walked
out the door. There was a no forgiveness policy at that station for
any error. WBZ wanted to be sure the FCC could rely that the person
making the mistake was automatically fired.
We were expected to be on time when we reported for employment every
day. If you were late, you were fired. I remember Al telling me we
had a very lenient absence policy. If you were dead, you were not
expected to show up, and furthermore no one would have anything bad to
say about you. If you were in jail or in hospital, they expected a
phone call. Anything else, just take your license off the wall.
I'm sure that by now you all realize I'm really out of date.
Warren Reese
http://www.radions.net/spamfltr.htm
chris319
> Then we can turn to paving over the Castro, and deal with the final solution for the gay
> problem.
Contact the Mormon church and the Knights of Columbus. They're pretty
good at that.
chris319
> KGO streams its own product 24/7, which includes almost everything with
> some commercials replaced due to contractual arrangements.
We know that.
> Karel streams his program from his own studio, which includes only the material > that comes from his own studio at home (no commercials, news, promos or any
> other KGO material).
Can you name one host other than Karel who streams independently of
KGO as you claim, and do you have for a URL to that stream?
> > If they're streaming independently as you say, then it isn't taking
> > place at the station.
>
> Yes, I would say that is a reasonable assumption. I'm not sure I
> understand your point.
Did you read my point about the legal risks involved? Since you seem
to know about it, does Karel have a written contract with Citadel
granting him permission to stream KGO's copyrighted programming (that
portion of which emanates from his backyard studio), or is KGO
management aware of it but merely looking the other way? Or does Karel
have a contract with Citadel granting him the copyright to his KGO
show the same as if it were a syndicated show (highly doubtful as
Karel is merely a fill-in host on one station)?
Peter
> Did you read my point about the legal risks involved? Since you seem
> to know about it, does Karel have a written contract with Citadel
> granting him permission to stream KGO's copyrighted programming (that
> portion of which emanates from his backyard studio), or is KGO
> management aware of it but merely looking the other way? Or does Karel
> have a contract with Citadel granting him the copyright to his KGO
> show the same as if it were a syndicated show (highly doubtful as
> Karel is merely a fill-in host on one station)?
According to Ronn, yesterday, Karel is on, "... is on indefinite leave
[ of absence ] ... ".
--
Peter Haas - Monterey Bay, California - Should you quote, please quote
only the relevant text
It's The Democratic PartyŽ, Bozo, NOT the Democrat party (USPTO Ser.
No. 74152276)
David Kaye
>
> I'm sure that by now you all realize I'm really out of date.
Of course, this was also the day when Westinghouse (now aka CBS)
offered stable employment for people who played by the rules. You
could go to work for them and be assured that you'd have a full career
with them. Westinghouse seldom laid off anybody, and it was only as a
last resort. They'd bend over backward to reassign people if there
was no other way.
Group W was run in those days by Donald Gannon. One of his best
quotes: "Leadership is action, not position. People who are winners
lead every day with their actions." He was a religious man (Catholic)
and when KPIX moved to Battery Street, the Van Ness building was
donated to the Catholic church for its media center.
I think that is an important difference the inspires employee
loyalty. Today's Westinghouse (aka CBS) is nothing like that. At
today's CBS people's jobs are slashed left and right with no regard to
loyalty, personal standards, nothing. Why should any employee be
loyal to them?
chris319
> On 2008-11-07 09:04:37 -0800, chris319 <c319ch...@aol.com> said:
>
> > Did you read my point about the legal risks involved? Since you seem
> > to know about it, does Karel have a written contract with Citadel
> > granting him permission to stream KGO's copyrighted programming (that
> > portion of which emanates from his backyard studio), or is KGO
> > management aware of it but merely looking the other way? Or does Karel
> > have a contract with Citadel granting him the copyright to his KGO
> > show the same as if it were a syndicated show (highly doubtful as
> > Karel is merely a fill-in host on one station)?
>
> According to Ronn, yesterday, Karel is on, "... is on indefinite leave
> [ of absence ] ... ".
You are correct; all of those questions should have been framed in the
past tense, as of the time before his "indefinite leave".
John Slade
<Phoeni...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d588ebe6-76e7-43d3...@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
I have the audio of the apology. The apology happened right after the
news break. It really wasn't Karel's fault it was his engineer's fault for
not killing his mic or whoever trained him. To tell you the truth there
should be a light or other indicator that Karel should have had that would
let him know if the mic was hot.
John
Mike Ward
wrote:
>After the commercial break, Karel made an apology, both about his
>comments, and the failure of the new board op to dump said comments
>that went out over the air.
Karel has been on the air - and in major markets - long enough to know
that you don't drop the F-bomb in front of a microphone that could
well be live on the other end.
Period.
If his rant had excluded that word and its variants, it'd be brought
up here by those who don't like him politically, but wouldn't have
gone that far beyond that.
Instead, his employer is now forced to wait out/figure out what the
FCC might do next, and faces potential fines and other action by the
folks in DC.
Most of us who have been in the business for some time know that you
assume that if there's a microphone in front of your face in a radio
studio, it could well end up being connected to a transmitter.
Karel apparently took until this to learn the lesson I learned as news
director at tiny WOKG-AM "Talk 1570" in Warren, OH, which was my first
radio job in 1989.
I was doing the noon newscast live in the main control room, and there
was a 30 second spot between the body of the newscast, and the sports
and weather segment.
As the (trade) spot for "Disney's World On Ice" played in my
headphones, I figured it wasn't worth turning the microphone off and
on again just for a little 30 second spot.
Our midday co-host, Mike Murphy, tapped me on the shoulder, and I was
completely surprised. I was immersed in what I was doing, and I was a
nervous young broadcaster...and when Mike tapped me, I leapt from my
chair and shouted in the loudest possible voice,
"MURPHY!!! YOU SCARED THE [S-bomb] OUT OF ME!!!!!"
Pause. The spot ends, and I realize I just cursed in front of a live
microphone over all 500 watts of my relatively new employer's radio
station.
I collected myself a bit, did sports and weather, turned off the mic
and left.
I literally hid under the studio desk next to my office. I was in my
early 20's, and it was my first job, and I was sure the 50s-ish woman
who owned the station was going to call at any minute and fire me.
She did not.
Mike Murphy told me later that his mother "didn't hear anything".
Bless his heart.
Karel can blame the board op back at Front Street all he wants, but
even the least seasoned broadcasters usually figure out that you can't
use strong profanity in front of a microphone, no matter how sure you
are that it is not on the air.
John Higdon
<eaf63b78-8c4f-46ab...@h23g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
chris319 <c319...@aol.com> wrote:
> Did you read my point about the legal risks involved? Since you seem
> to know about it, does Karel have a written contract with Citadel
> granting him permission to stream KGO's copyrighted programming (that
> portion of which emanates from his backyard studio), or is KGO
> management aware of it but merely looking the other way?
Why don't you do what I do when I have a question like that? Ask someone
at the station.
John Higdon
<1ef00fde-3109-479a...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
"leansto...@democrat.com" <leansto...@democrat.com> wrote:
> Now KGO has the big mo'.
Not according to David Eduardo.
John Higdon
<5bd7ece7-6a5b-4972...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
"leansto...@democrat.com" <leansto...@democrat.com> wrote:
> Karel can't upload his on air apology? Must be a Mac issue.
Why would he? Why should he give the apology more coverage than the
offense? For instance, he doesn't owe YOU an apology, does he?
John Higdon
<d588ebe6-76e7-43d3...@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Phoeni...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I don't think he made one, The comments were made & broadcast over the
> air after his show was over.
Karel's apology was given over exactly the same venue as the offending
words, minutes later.
Bozo
<leanstothel...@democrat.com> wrote:
> On Nov 6, 5:18 pm, David Kaye <sfdavidka...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I recall there was an argument accepted by the FCC made that the F-
> bomb could be dropped if appropriate. For instance, a car bomb goes
> off and someone shouts WTF.
>
>
... not to mention if an F-bomb goes off, you can say WTF too, right.
-bozo-
Travis James
> On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 05:09:47 -0800 (PST), analogmu...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> After the commercial break, Karel made an apology, both about his
>> comments, and the failure of the new board op to dump said comments
>> that went out over the air.
>
> Karel has been on the air - and in major markets - long enough to know
> that you don't drop the F-bomb in front of a microphone that could
> well be live on the other end.
>
> Period.
>
> If his rant had excluded that word and its variants, it'd be brought
> up here by those who don't like him politically, but wouldn't have
> gone that far beyond that.
>
> Instead, his employer is now forced to wait out/figure out what the
> FCC might do next, and faces potential fines and other action by the
> folks in DC.
>
> Most of us who have been in the business for some time know that you
> assume that if there's a microphone in front of your face in a radio
> studio, it could well end up being connected to a transmitter.
>
I don't know if these Karel threads contain any original link to the
offense (and I use that term lightly). Armstrong and Getty spoke about
it today pretty much defending him as it being an accident.
I edited out the commentary which includes the actual incident.
http://www.justupit.com/get.php?id=81edcbaea11f00f583a788456f2906c2
Mike Ward
<travis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I don't know if these Karel threads contain any original link to the
>offense (and I use that term lightly). Armstrong and Getty spoke about
>it today pretty much defending him as it being an accident.
Oh, it was an accident. Of course. There's no way Karel meant to air
the F-bomb over KGO's airwaves.
He was just careless. He made a mistake. He SHOULD very well know
that any microphone can be live, but thought he was in "safe" land and
only talking to the board op.
That's a dangerous assumption from a few hundred miles away, and with
an apparently new board op you can't actually see (and a board you
can't actually see).
Even if he were standing on Front Street instead of broadcasting from
his home studio in Long Beach, he should have known/realized/believed
that any rant could accidentally make it to the air. He just didn't
take the proper care. Neither did the board op, for that matter.
Eric Weaver
> He just didn't
> take the proper care. Neither did the board op, for that matter.
The thing I have been wondering all this time is, why didn't the board
op hit "DUMP" and save everyone's booty? I'm guessing the board op was
using the can or having a smoke... It was during the news, after all.
Did I tell you about the time Joan Rivers was on with Fern & Greg?...
John Higdon
Travis James <travis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know if these Karel threads contain any original link to the
> offense (and I use that term lightly). Armstrong and Getty spoke about
> it today pretty much defending him as it being an accident.
Which is what it was. I haven't heard anyone yet who has even suggested
that he would have used the words he did had he known the mic was live
to the air.
John Higdon
Eric Weaver <we...@sigma.net> wrote:
> The thing I have been wondering all this time is, why didn't the board
> op hit "DUMP" and save everyone's booty? I'm guessing the board op was
> using the can or having a smoke... It was during the news, after all.
The only chance a KGO board op gets during a live show to use the can is
during the network news.
Of course, I have worked at a station where the PD wanted buttons in the
toy-dee.
Mike Ward
wrote:
>The thing I have been wondering all this time is, why didn't the board
>op hit "DUMP" and save everyone's booty? I'm guessing the board op was
>using the can or having a smoke... It was during the news, after all.
The top of the hour network news is universally a time, at news/talk
stations with live, local programming, where the board op can use the
facilities. It is basically the only five minutes of the hour where
he or she is not in direct control of what hits the airwaves.
leansto...@democrat.com
>
> "leanstothel...@democrat.com" <leanstothel...@democrat.com> wrote:
> > Karel can't upload his on air apology? Must be a Mac issue.
>
> Why would he? Why should he give the apology more coverage than the
> offense? For instance, he doesn't owe YOU an apology, does he?
>
> --
> John Higdon
> +1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
He has disgraced KGO and thus it's loyal listener base, of which I am
a part. Therefor, he owes me an apology, though I'd prefer his
resignation.
leansto...@democrat.com
>
> "leanstothel...@democrat.com" <leanstothel...@democrat.com> wrote:
> > Now KGO has the big mo'.
>
> Not according to David Eduardo.
>
> --
> John Higdon
> +1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
Well, I suppose the big mo' is relative, so relative to other stations
on the AM dial, KGO has the big mo'. It's like being the market leader
in a flat market. You still command whatever there is to command.
John Higdon
<4eb71d9f-51df-46cd...@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
"leansto...@democrat.com" <leansto...@democrat.com> wrote:
> Well, I suppose the big mo' is relative, so relative to other stations
> on the AM dial, KGO has the big mo'. It's like being the market leader
> in a flat market. You still command whatever there is to command.
KGO keeps it's "command" with constant effort to remain relevant. Would
you like a list of the stations that have folded to insignificance very
quickly after deciding that they could just "coast along" on their "big
mo" as you put it?
John Higdon
<cc75f6ba-ce42-42ef...@c36g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
"leansto...@democrat.com" <leansto...@democrat.com> wrote:
> He has disgraced KGO and thus it's loyal listener base, of which I am
> a part. Therefor, he owes me an apology, though I'd prefer his
> resignation.
So, in essence, an apology would be pointless.
That's my point.
Ciccio
> Of course, I have worked at a station where the PD wanted buttons in the
> toy-dee.
Hmmm, interesting...So they can dump while taking a dump...
Ciccio
Lawrence Statton
> > He has disgraced KGO and thus it's loyal listener base, of which I am
> > a part. Therefor, he owes me an apology, though I'd prefer his
> > resignation.
>
> So, in essence, an apology would be pointless.
>
Perhaps a second point is: If your (JH's) report is right, Karel
already DID apologize.
--L
leansto...@democrat.com
>
> "leanstothel...@democrat.com" <leanstothel...@democrat.com> wrote:
> > Well, I suppose the big mo' is relative, so relative to other stations
> > on the AM dial, KGO has the big mo'. It's like being the market leader
> > in a flat market. You still command whatever there is to command.
>
> KGO keeps it's "command" with constant effort to remain relevant. Would
> you like a list of the stations that have folded to insignificance very
> quickly after deciding that they could just "coast along" on their "big
> mo" as you put it?
>
> --
> John Higdon
> +1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
I didn't say KGO is on autopilot. My point is about Karel. Put Karel
on KYCY and he will be a big zero in the ratings as is the rest of
their programming. The success of Karel on KGO, whatever success there
is, is mostly due to KGO and has little to do with Karel.
David Kaye
> It really wasn't Karel's fault it was his engineer's fault for
> not killing his mic or whoever trained him.
It was the fault of both the board op and Karel, but it's Karel's show
and he's ultimately responsible for what comes out of his mouth. So,
if I were to take action against anyone it would be Karel, not the
board op.
David Kaye
> Karel has been on the air - and in major markets - long enough to know
> that you don't drop the F-bomb in front of a microphone that could
> well be live on the other end.
It's not just the F-bomb, but the M-F-bomb, which as far as I'm
concerned is about 10 times worse. Even if I were shaken away from a
sleep and jammed with cattle prods I wouldn't drop the M-F-bomb. It's
just not something anyone should have in their vocabulary, and decent
people don't.
> Instead, his employer is now forced to wait out/figure out what the
> FCC might do next, and faces potential fines and other action by the
> folks in DC.
Given the extent of the obscenity, I'd say that the fine could be
significant.
David Kaye
>
> Did I tell you about the time Joan Rivers was on with Fern & Greg?...
Tell us! Tell us!
David Kaye
I did not say the part attributed to me above. I did not say that the
FCC allows the F-bomb to be used anywhere at any time.
Eric Weaver
Yeah, as John has confirmed. But leaving the room with a loose cannon
like Karel live to air seems like a real poor judgment...
Not that it absolves Karel of anything. Treat all guns as loaded, treat
all mics as live.
Eric Weaver
What a mouth that gal has on her. Even on the radio.
The dump button (remoted to an Eventide BD-980 in the rack room, bought
from KQED) got its heaviest workout ever. Fernando had to keep
shutting her down.
Once very soon after a dump she dropped another S-bomb and there was
JUST enough delay built back up that dumping again cut off the end.
Then there was the Green Christmas show (for a certain CBS station,
ahem), in which Liam Gallagher of Oasis came out on stage and shouted,
live to air, "How y'all motherf---in' doin'?!?!" Thanks, Liam...
Mike Ward
wrote:
>Yeah, as John has confirmed. But leaving the room with a loose cannon
>like Karel live to air seems like a real poor judgment...
Agreed.
I added my part because I wanted to amplify that the 5 minute network
news is basically the only programming the board op can "leave up" and
walk away from.
There could certainly be satellite/receiver problems, but those are
very rare.
Meanwhile, even during an extended local spot break, the board op not
only risks it dumping out, or bad spots making it dump out early,
they're supposed to keep an eye on the spots in case the computerized
traffic information broke various rules (placing spots next to each
other, like competing car dealers, etc.).
But yes...the board op should have ensured Karel's line from Long
Beach was potted down before hitting the facilities.
>Not that it absolves Karel of anything. Treat all guns as loaded, treat
>all mics as live.
And as someone else here noted, Karel's name is on the show, and he
takes responsibility. If he doesn't curse, none of this becomes
potential cause for his termination or for FCC fines for KGO, no
matter what the board op does on Front Street.
Mike Ward
<sfdavi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>It's not just the F-bomb, but the M-F-bomb, which as far as I'm
>concerned is about 10 times worse. Even if I were shaken away from a
>sleep and jammed with cattle prods I wouldn't drop the M-F-bomb. It's
>just not something anyone should have in their vocabulary, and decent
>people don't.
Oh, yes, I was aware of that, but I don't even like to type the
euphemism. :D
>Given the extent of the obscenity, I'd say that the fine could be
>significant.
I'm wondering if this would even fit under the "fleeting obscenity"
rules currently under consideration in the U.S. Supreme Court. Is it
"fleeting", even if accidental, if said by a station employee or
contractor?
John Higdon
Mike Ward <mw...@iname.remove-this-part.com> wrote:
> I'm wondering if this would even fit under the "fleeting obscenity"
> rules currently under consideration in the U.S. Supreme Court. Is it
> "fleeting", even if accidental, if said by a station employee or
> contractor?
If the performer has every reason to believe that the circuit is cold, I
would think so. There is, of course, the gray area of diligence and
professionalism, but obscene fines are not called for when there is a
mistake rather than "repeated and willful".
John Higdon
Eric Weaver <we...@sigma.net> wrote:
> Yeah, as John has confirmed. But leaving the room with a loose cannon
> like Karel live to air seems like a real poor judgment...
Bladders override judgment. However, something like a one-at-a-time rule
might emerge.
John Higdon
Mike Ward <mw...@iname.remove-this-part.com> wrote:
> I added my part because I wanted to amplify that the 5 minute network
> news is basically the only programming the board op can "leave up" and
> walk away from.
Even so, there was an instance of "fleeting obscenity" on the network
news and the FCC went after each and every affiliate. I thought that was
actually pretty silly on the commission's part.
John Higdon
<99799358-90a8-4c48...@1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
"leansto...@democrat.com" <leansto...@democrat.com> wrote:
> I didn't say KGO is on autopilot. My point is about Karel. Put Karel
> on KYCY and he will be a big zero in the ratings as is the rest of
> their programming. The success of Karel on KGO, whatever success there
> is, is mostly due to KGO and has little to do with Karel.
You are overlooking the fact that if Karel was the big zero you
describe, he couldn't be on the station for more than a half-dozen years
without at least dragging the time slot down. On the contrary, he has
been one of the most successful occupants of that time slot.
John Higdon
JimK <1al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This isn't the first time a local figure has let loose a swear word on
> the air. Big names have done it, including Ronn Owens and Michael
> Savage. Burt Reynolds cursed during an Owens show and Savage similarl
> let go a swear-laced tirade when he thought the microphone was off.
It is, however, the first time there has been such an occurrence since
the FCC has implemented draconian penalties for even "fleeting
obscenity". Stations everywhere have reflected that super-strict
enforcement in their own standards and practices out of necessity. Even
volunteer stations such as KKUP have exceedingly strict rules and
consequences relating to obscenity on the air.
> KGO assistant program director Trish Robbins said she supports Karel,
> and hopes his suspension ends soon.
Of course. Management certainly does not like to disrupt a working line
up due to something like this. There is no partying in the hallways
whenever something like this happens.
> Sportscaster "Kevin the Rat" gets a tryout Sunday. Saturday the
> station broadcasts Cal football during Karel's 7-10 p.m. slot.
Oh, goody. I can just imagine what the topic will be for all three hours.
Mike Ward
<HisRoyalRa...@kome.com> wrote:
>Even so, there was an instance of "fleeting obscenity" on the network
>news and the FCC went after each and every affiliate. I thought that was
>actually pretty silly on the commission's part.
Do you remember the third-party presidential candidate - roughly 1980,
I believe - who aired a spot over the very same ABC News Radio network
with "BS" (the actual word) in it?
ABC was forced to air it, because it was a federal political campaign.
All of the affiliates were expected to air it as well.
Ah, Barry Commoner was the candidate's name.
Also on ABC Radio, there's the story of the young female board op in
New York City who couldn't figure out why she couldn't hear Bob
Brinker's feed from Florida.
She exclaimed over Bob's opening to everyone listening on all of the
"Moneytalk" affiliates (including KGO!) - "I'm not getting any Bob in
here. Bob?" - Mr. Brinker oblivious to her travails in NYC.
She couldn't "get any Bob in here" because the microphone was on.
And RIGHT in the middle of one of Mr. Brinker's pauses...the young
woman dropped a clearly audible F-bomb to all stations carrying the
show.
I know the story because I was working at KFBK, which carries the
show. I told the story right here in ba.broadcast, and someone
associated with ABC Radio chimed in that the young woman lost her job
as a result of the expletive.
But this was all before the FCC's crackdown on "fleeting obscenity",
and as far as I know, the Moneytalk affiliates were not pursued by the
commission.
It'll be interesting to see how the Supreme Court weighs in.
leansto...@democrat.com
> In article <iugbh41heb9h76d4hpft2j8vl3hthq9...@4ax.com>,
But think about the children!
leansto...@democrat.com
>
> "leanstothel...@democrat.com" <leanstothel...@democrat.com> wrote:
> > I didn't say KGO is on autopilot. My point is about Karel. Put Karel
> > on KYCY and he will be a big zero in the ratings as is the rest of
> > their programming. The success of Karel on KGO, whatever success there
> > is, is mostly due to KGO and has little to do with Karel.
>
> You are overlooking the fact that if Karel was the big zero you
> describe, he couldn't be on the station for more than a half-dozen years
> without at least dragging the time slot down. On the contrary, he has
> been one of the most successful occupants of that time slot.
>
> --
> John Higdon
> +1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
Mediocre is not a big fat zero, but rather not very good. Assuming KGO
does the right thing, let's see how successful Karel is on some other
radio station. Karel is slightly better than white noise.
I don't think the host has to be hitting it out of the park at every
at bat. But the host should at least register with me (i.e. my
opinion) that he or she is competent. Having heard Karel spout off, I
would never trust what he says to be true. Regarding entertainment, I
am not amused by his antics.
I perceive no value from Karel other than he keeps the transmitter
warm, though I would contend that is a waste of power.
John Higdon
<b98637ec-79f9-4c62...@u29g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
"leansto...@democrat.com" <leansto...@democrat.com> wrote:
> Mediocre is not a big fat zero, but rather not very good. Assuming KGO
> does the right thing, let's see how successful Karel is on some other
> radio station. Karel is slightly better than white noise.
He did better than his predecessors in that time slot. They must have
REALLY been bad. I understand that you don't like him, but you seem to
feel that because you don't like him, no one else does. This is the pit
that sinks a lot of program directors.
> I don't think the host has to be hitting it out of the park at every
> at bat. But the host should at least register with me (i.e. my
> opinion) that he or she is competent.
So you and your tastes are the final word? If you have that kind of
omniscience, there is a lot of money to be made in media programming and
you might want to consider a career change. I must say that unless you
have many years (and a stellar track record) in program production, I'm
not sure how you make such sweeping statements.
I realize that you are convinced you could do my job better than I in
your sleep, and you are apparently convinced that you are intrinsically
better at programming and talent search than Jack Swanson. What's next
for you in your imaginary radio career? Sales management, maybe. GMs
come from that pool, so that might be something you will want to
consider.
> Having heard Karel spout off, I
> would never trust what he says to be true. Regarding entertainment, I
> am not amused by his antics.
And I think John Rothmann is a consummate bore and he is one of the few
hosts that will get me to exercise the off button on the radio. But I
realize that he must be someone's cup of tea, or he wouldn't still have
a slot.
> I perceive no value from Karel other than he keeps the transmitter
> warm, though I would contend that is a waste of power.
Well, you're an expert on transmitters as well, so I'll defer to your
judgment. Congratulations: I can only think of two other regulars here
who believe they can do everything on the radio better than those who
actually make a living at it.
leansto...@democrat.com
You are making the assumption there is no better talent for that slot.
I contend you could fill Moscone with better hosts than Karel.
Remember, Karel and myself are politically aligned, so I have every
reason TO like him. However, Karel gives liberals a bad name.
John Higdon
<36caaba7-b8d2-4cec...@f37g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
"leansto...@democrat.com" <leansto...@democrat.com> wrote:
> You are making the assumption there is no better talent for that slot.
> I contend you could fill Moscone with better hosts than Karel.
Name three. Oh, and this isn't fantasy hour. Please confine yourself to
real people who are legitimately available and would seek that position,
or take it if it were offered.
> Remember, Karel and myself are politically aligned, so I have every
> reason TO like him. However, Karel gives liberals a bad name.
I'm sorry. I've been working in broadcasting for over forty years.
Never, not once, has "liberal" or "conservative" come up for me in terms
of my career or any aspect of it in working with management, talent,
fellow engineers, or any outside support people. Whether someone is
"conservative" or "liberal" has NOTHING to do with their suitability for
a position, their ability, their talent, or anything else related to
radio and broadcasting.
You may be interested to note that I probably disagree with Karel on
most political issues. So what? I'm completely willing to acknowledge
his strengths as well as his weaknesses. That may be why more than a few
people seek my opinion on talent (surprised?). I call it as I see
it...and it isn't clouded over with irrelevancies such as positions
taken on political issues.
leansto...@democrat.com
Name three: Well, let's see. How about Sam Seder, ex Air America. Some
of the weekend talent at KFI easily beats Karel's lame show. Joe Hicks
or Wayne Resnick for instance. Not heard locally but on XM Left is
Russ Bellville.
It really is time for Karel to go. The guy is in a state of arrested
development. He spouts out non-sequiturs. He is totally self-
absorbed. Just look at the air time he spends talking about himself.
It's time for Karel to go. It might do him some good. He could find a
new career, or return to radio with hopefully a better attitude and a
better show.
John Higdon
<8cbeed45-230d-4635...@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
"leansto...@democrat.com" <leansto...@democrat.com> wrote:
> Name three: Well, let's see. How about Sam Seder, ex Air America. Some
> of the weekend talent at KFI easily beats Karel's lame show. Joe Hicks
> or Wayne Resnick for instance. Not heard locally but on XM Left is
> Russ Bellville.
And all of these people would be willing to do a Bay Area-centric
weekend talk show on KGO, with occasional public appearances, etc.?
leansto...@democrat.com
>
> "leanstothel...@democrat.com" <leanstothel...@democrat.com> wrote:
> > Name three: Well, let's see. How about Sam Seder, ex Air America. Some
> > of the weekend talent at KFI easily beats Karel's lame show. Joe Hicks
> > or Wayne Resnick for instance. Not heard locally but on XM Left is
> > Russ Bellville.
>
> And all of these people would be willing to do a Bay Area-centric
> weekend talk show on KGO, with occasional public appearances, etc.?
>
> --
> John Higdon
> +1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
Not my job. My point is the talent is out there. I'm surprised how
good Kevin the Rat is doing in Karel's slot.