Sad spectacle, Karel defends Bernie, by trashing the high school girl victims.
gvk...@yahoo.com
at all when he says some of the things he says.
On the previous night, after talking directly with Bernie earlier that
day, he was defending Bernie down the line.
Took everything Bernie told him as the way things really were, the
truth, from one friend to another (Karel).
Bernie told him there was only ONE picture and that it was nothing
more than "a consensual
photo with their mother in a nudist camp", hardly real porn.
Bernie told him that there was NOTHING to any allegations of abuse
during his earlier years as a priest that amounted to anything at
all.....nothing.
Just ONE day later, in court, Bernie is forced to admit the truth of
what really happened. No lies allowed this time.
Suddenly the things he told Karel turn out to be nothing close to the
truth. One photo of children that was supposed to be just "a mother
and her child in a nudist camp" turns into 15 to 150 photos involving
"prepubescent children engaged in sexually explicit conduct, some with
sadistic, masochistic or violent conduct."
Well now, Karel has a problem. Either Bernie was lying in court, or
he was lying when he was talking to Karel the day before. Not some
tiny factual mistake, but wholesale falsehoods and distortions given
to Karel.
Geeze......Karel's brain realizes he's been duped, but oh well,
Bernie is a friend, and when you have a friend, what can you do?
Just dump them? NO, says Karel, you have to stand by them even when
they mislead you.
Now, when Dan Noyes presents his I-Team report and locates two women
who were only 16 and 17 year old school girls when Bernie was a 27
year old priest at their schools,. AND when they report about their
abusive encounters with the priest, Bernie Ward..AND when they on-
camera describe in detail having the priest, Bernie take them out in a
car, force his tongue down their throat, and grab their
breasts........all without their consent, until they could finally
escape or in one case, until the 16 year old could kick him in the
stomach and flee........
Well when all this is chronicled and corroborated by other witnesses,
then what does Karel say about this familiar episode of priest abuse
of girls..?
Does he realize that his friend has lied to him once again as he did
about the other facts?
NO........instead Karel trashes the girls (now women) and says how can
we believe these 30 year old stories? He says "why believe some
woman in her 40's" about events so long ago?
He asks, why didn't those girls report it way back then and how can
we believe them now?
Two different women telling similar stories, both of which are backed
up by the priest who was the vice principle at the time as well as by
the brother of the former principle who has passed away. Several
people, all on camera, backing up the stories about priest Bernie's
forced advances and abuse of these school girls.
Karel dismisses their claims as insignificant little kisses and
instead chooses to believe his friend Bernie, who ONLY the day before
had told him a complete lie about a critical element of the case.
How completely stupid can Karel be to be duped for the second day in a
row?
Further more, all of Karel's reasons for dismissing the charges of
these two girls (now women) strike me as IDENTICAL to those put forth
why the public was not supposed to believe the early claims by boys
and girls about sexual abuse by Catholic priests.
Now here in 2008, Karel is using the same tactics as the Catholic
Church used for decades.
Trash the victims....deny....deny.....deny.......
Why did they wait so long to report it.........Where are the records
to prove it..........Oh nothing really bad happened........how can we
believe school girls
That is Karel either at his ugliest or at his dumbest.
What Karel passes off as loyalty to a friend is actually a shameful
continuation of the original abuse these women suffered.
Fortunately, anyone who saw Dan Noyes' report and listened to the
woman, can easily determine for themselves as to whether she is
credible.
She is credible.........What lacks any credibility is the man who goes
by the name of Karel.
Bill Z.
> Just ONE day later, in court, Bernie is forced to admit the truth of
> what really happened. No lies allowed this time.
> Suddenly the things he told Karel turn out to be nothing close to the
> truth. One photo of children that was supposed to be just "a mother
> and her child in a nudist camp" turns into 15 to 150 photos involving
> "prepubescent children engaged in sexually explicit conduct, some with
> sadistic, masochistic or violent conduct."
According to
<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/05/09/MNIR10J9JC.DTL>
it seems that "The plea agreement he signed, quoted in court,
contained an admission that he had sent between 15 and 150
pornographic images via e-mail." So, "15 to 150" was negotiated in a
plea bargain.
Regarding the First Amendment defense his lawyer wanted to use,
"Weinberg said he still believes Ward had a legitimate defense but one
that was too risky to pursue. Any leniency that prosecutors are now
offering would disappear after a trial and conviction, he said, and
the price would be an additional 'five or six years of a man's life.'"
The "15 to 150" images was most likely made up by the DA, who
figuratively held a sword over Ward's head - either sign the agreement
or risk a much longer stay in jail. The range is not believable -
it's not like it was "15 to 20" or even "150 to 200", which would
reflect the uncertainty in the precise number that most people in that
situation would have. It's the factor of 10 that is the problem:
if you asked someone for an estimate of the distance from the Bay
Area to LA, would you expect an answer of "400 to 4000 miles"?
--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
expose...@gmail.com
> The "15 to 150" images was most likely made up by the DA, who
> figuratively held a sword over Ward's head - either sign the agreement
> or risk a much longer stay in jail. The range is not believable -
> it's not like it was "15 to 20" or even "150 to 200", which would
> reflect the uncertainty in the precise number that most people in that
> situation would have. It's the factor of 10 that is the problem:
One of the things I enjoy is seeing the 25% that support Bush out and
about. I was was wondering where the little cockroaches had been
hiding and I see them dancing in the streets now. They are so upset at
Bernie for being one of the first to slow down the neocon agenda.
Wattenburg, the Cheney-mouthpiece, was doing such a good job at fear
mongering and misdirection and then Bernie comes along and starts
looking under the hood. I guess Bernie never bought that "smartest man
in the world" bit (me neither).
I think this story is far from over. I agree with Karel: You have a
"Bernie the Boobin-Grabber" case in the making and you sit on it for
all these years. Doesn't make sense. But I agree that Bernie is a bit
of a horn-dog. I do recall him having Nina Hartley on a few times and
how into it he was.
I am also unclear on this charge. 250 kiddie porn pics is a factory.
What the hell is the govt. doing by not arresting him they day they
took the computer. And I agree with Gene last nite re: Bernie's calm
composure for these years. If you are hosting a kiddie porn factory
you are going to fry. Yet he never seemed to indicate that he was on
the verge of extinction. Either big balls, denial or there is still
more to the case.
I do hope for more information to come out.
I for one will miss Bernie. I enjoyed God Talk a lot. I listened to
the first half hour of him at night on a regular basis. I suspect he
had a very diverse audience. I am an R&D engineer that worked in the
nuclear power industry (both commercial and military) and then the
defense industry in the 80's until the Cold War ended (then went into
medical) . Probably about as conservative as you get. I even voted for
Regan. While Bernie could be too far to the left for me at times, I
appreciated his analytic mind and the fact that he carries water for
no one.
My advice to Bernie is to write books. If you do have a sexual problem
then confess to it and get it fixed. If this was really about going
underground then state your case: fact by fact.
Karel, I think you are doing a good job.
sher...@mailcity.com
> gvk2...@yahoo.com writes:
>
> The "15 to 150" images was most likely made up by the DA, who
> figuratively held a sword over Ward's head - either sign the agreement
> or risk a much longer stay in jail. The range is not believable -
> it's not like it was "15 to 20" or even "150 to 200", which would
> reflect the uncertainty in the precise number that most people in that
> situation would have. It's the factor of 10 that is the problem:
> if you asked someone for an estimate of the distance from the Bay
> Area to LA, would you expect an answer of "400 to 4000 miles"?
>
> --
> My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
The 15 to 150" images was most likely made up by the "DA", #1 there
was no DA in this case #2 I don't think they're allowed to "make"
stuff up & Wards lawyer would not allow him to pled guilty if they did.
Bill Z.
You can quibble about titles, but the news article that I quoted, and
that you snipped, clearly indicated that the "15 to 150" number
appeared in the plea bargain he signed. Ward's attorney can't plea
bargin with no one on the other side to bargain with. And someone
almost certainly made the number up for the reasons I outlined - the
range is too high. ALso, Wards' lawyer stated that it was accepted to
mitigate the risk of a much longer time in the slammer (something else
you snipped).
One might note that "15 to 150", sounds a lot more impressive to the
prosecutor's boss than "15 to 20", so there's a reason to be cynical
about it, and Ward's attorney (like any attorney) would be more
concerned with the outcome for his client than the value of the upper
end of the range.
Peter Lawrence
I speculate that the 15 to 150 range comes from the difference between
what the prosecutors thought Bernie sent (150) and the amount that
Bernie was willing to admit that he sent (15).
- Peter
DWA...@gmail.com
> Bill Z. wrote:
Bill Z - Not only is your real name backwards, but your thinking is
backwards as well. I've read a number of your B.S. posts on these
forums and you add absolutely nothing worthwhile to the discussions.
You made countless posts over recent months with your Techie B.S.
saying Bernie may not have downloaded and or possessed the Child Porn
knowingly. Obviously, you B.S. has proven to be pure garbage.
And now the originator of this thread (gvk2) starts on the topic that
Karel is a 'friggin moron and you start to ask was it 15 or was it 150
photos. As I said, you're thinking is just as backwards as your
stupid name, and you add nothing worthwhile to the discussions.
Karel is a moron that cares more about his dog than about vulnerable
children; I suspect his career won't last long on KGO. JMO; And
Bernie is, as Ronn Ownes mentioned yesterday, sick, pathetic, and
repulsive. He needs to get some professional help with his problems.
Bill Z.
Possibly, but what the prosecutor thought Bernie sent may have been
heavily biased by wishful thinking - if there was real evidence that
150 had been sent, the prosecutor would presumably have insisted on
that number.
Bill Z.
> On May 9, 12:56 pm, Peter Lawrence <hummb...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Bill Z. wrote:
> > > sherri...@mailcity.com writes:
> >
> > >> On May 9, 7:47 am, nob...@nospam.pacbell.net (Bill Z.) wrote:
>
> Bill Z - Not only is your real name backwards, but your thinking is
> backwards as well. I've read a number of your B.S. posts on these
> forums and you add absolutely nothing worthwhile to the discussions.
<snip>
Looks like you are another usenet idiot.
John Higdon
<85f27746-c2f9-4440...@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
DWA...@gmail.com wrote:
> Karel is a moron that cares more about his dog than about vulnerable
> children; I suspect his career won't last long on KGO.
What is your definition of "long"? He has already held a regular slot
for a number of years. In show business that's just short of an eternity.
--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
needsyour...@gmail.com
already has lasted.
Second, I care deeply about exploited children. But how many of you
have direct knowledge of the case from the lawyers and victims
involved? I do.
What have I said on air? That bernie is guilty. That the transcripts
disgusted me. That I felt as betrayed as anyone when I heard the
number 15-150.
OK, so a friend of mine has done a horrible thing. Now what? Denounce
him? Ignore him? Throw him to the wolves?
Bernie Ward is a friend and colleague. If he did these things for the
reason they say, then he needs therapy and perhaps medications. If he
did it for the reasons he says he did and this has happened then we
should be outraged. And anything in between is up for debate as
everyone has been on KGO.
But as you state facts, be sure you state all of them. Only 1% of all
cases get turned over to the FBI. Why did this one? Why, almost four
years ago now did they remove the computers and not the kids? Why is
their no record of anything happening 30 years ago in the church, when
this attempted kiss between a 16, 17 year old girls wanting beer and a
24 year old priest that TRIED to kiss them.
Scooter Libby betrayed our country and walked free. Mark Foley
verbally molested Congressional Pages over instant messages and is
happy living in Florida. Bernie looked at a bunch of photos he
shouldn't have for whatever reason, and then sent one to a dominatrix,
one whom he had been having disgusting conversations. Thought crimes,
and he goes to jail for five years or more. Does that make any sense?
I support my friend but hate his crime. That's called forgiveness and
compassion. Sorry no one here understands that.
Bill Z.
> Scooter Libby betrayed our country and walked free. Mark Foley
> verbally molested Congressional Pages over instant messages and is
> happy living in Florida.
Libby was possibly "the man who knew too much" and Mark Foley probably
did not do anything illegal - he wrote some of the relevant
legislation, and no doubt knew just how close he could get to the line
without technically stepping over it. If I'm not mistaken, the pages
he sent those instant messages to were above the age of consent
in Washington D.C. (barely above it), so there is nothing anyone can
do to him beyond not having anything to do with him.
> I support my friend but hate his crime. That's called forgiveness and
> compassion. Sorry no one here understands that.
Well, at least one person here never said one word about your friend's
guilt, innocence, or motives, nor criticized you for whatever you said.
DWA...@gmail.com
> My career won't last at KGO? I've been there six years dude, it
> already has lasted.
>
> Second, I care deeply about exploited children. But how many of you
> have direct knowledge of the case from the lawyers and victims
> involved? I do.
>
> What have I said on air? That bernie is guilty. That the transcripts
> disgusted me. That I felt as betrayed as anyone when I heard the
> number 15-150.
>
> OK, so a friend of mine has done a horrible thing. Now what? Denounce
> him? Ignore him? Throw him to the wolves?
>
> reason they say, then he needs therapy and perhaps medications. If he
> did it for the reasons he says he did and this has happened then we
> should be outraged. And anything in between is up for debate as
> everyone has been on KGO.
>
> But as you state facts, be sure you state all of them. Only 1% of all
> cases get turned over to the FBI. Why did this one? Why, almost four
> years ago now did they remove the computers and not the kids? Why is
> their no record of anything happening 30 years ago in the church, when
> this attempted kiss between a 16, 17 year old girls wanting beer and a
> 24 year old priest that TRIED to kiss them.
>
> Scooter Libby betrayed our country and walked free. Mark Foley
> verbally molested Congressional Pages over instant messages and is
> happy living in Florida. Bernie looked at a bunch of photos he
> shouldn't have for whatever reason, and then sent one to a dominatrix,
> one whom he had been having disgusting conversations. Thought crimes,
> and he goes to jail for five years or more. Does that make any sense?
>
> I support my friend but hate his crime. That's called forgiveness and
> compassion. Sorry no one here understands that.
Karel-
I listened last night to your program, as did the originator of this
thread. I heard you downplay these 16 & 17 year old girls and their
"little kiss" complaints. And now you say, "why is there no record of
this?" First of all, I assume that there was very little, if any,
"official record" of any of the abuses that have plagued the Catholic
Church across the country for the past 4 decades. Secondly the news
story by Dan Noyes and accounts by "independent parties" from that
time seem to substantiate their credibility and their claims.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/iteam&id=6131414
And now you complain not that your friend Bernie was somehow singled-
out and caught with repulsive, abusive photos of children from the
ages of 4-13 years of age. You're not mad at his crime, as you
contend; you're mad that he is being charged, and you try to compare
him to others with unrelated crimes and times.
I was somewhat surprised, but then again not, when I heard Ronn Owens
say that there has been an ongoing "one-sided animosity" between him
and Bernie over many, many years. I believe Ronn gets along with
everyone, even Ray! However, Bernie on the other hand is a very
hateful person, and he definitely has problems. As Ronn said, and I
agree, as do you, Bernie needs professional help for his his numerous
challenges. I pray that that he gets it and his family can be made
whole again.
Finally, I admire your being a "good friend" and supporting Bernie in
his recovery. But things look pathetic when victimized boys and girls
are made to look like they don't count by your throw away comments of
"just a kiss". Btw, my guess is much more will come out in the
weeks ahead about Bernie's inappropriate behavior as a Catholic
Priest. I'm sure you'll support him as a friend, which you should.
But I also hope that he somehow comes up with the courage to "ask for
forgiveness" to those he has let down and/or abused.
ps: Now Bill Z will still be counting photos...talk about an idiot!
Bill Z.
> On May 9, 1:28 pm, needsyourattent...@gmail.com wrote:
> > My career won't last at KGO? I've been there six years dude, it
> > already has lasted.
>
> ps: Now Bill Z will still be counting photos...talk about an idiot!
The idiot is *you*, and a dishonest idiot at that since I wasn't in
any sense "counting photos": I merely pointed out that a range of 15
to 150 is way too wide to constitute an admission on someone's part
for the same reason that one would not estimate the distance from San
Mateo to San Francisco as "15 to 150 miles" if you had actually
traveled between the two cities.
expose...@gmail.com
> On May 9, 1:28 pm, needsyourattent...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> I was somewhat surprised, but then again not, when I heard Ronn Owens
> say that there has been an ongoing "one-sided animosity" between him
> and Bernie over many, many years. I believe Ronn gets along with
> everyone, even Ray!
>
The war with Ronn is over Iraq. Ronn lost to Bernie in one of the KGO
All Stars
over this. Bernie has claimed that Ronn's support for the invasion of
Iraq was
that it was in the best interest of Israel. Bernie stated that
American blood should
NOT be spilled for the interest of Israel. Ronn could have come to
another All Stars
(and even brought a tape of John Kerry like Dr. Bill did) but was
afraid to do so. I
think that is the source of the deep hatred Ronn has for Bernie.
>> heard you downplay these 16 & 17 year old girls
Karel must be thinking this is a Swift Boating. You see, the real
issue here is to
discredit the messenger so the message is tainted. Bernie set this up,
yes. But
these extra events come at the right time. When the stars all align at
the right time
you need to put the thinking cap on. Just like Scott Peterson calling
Amber Fry a
few days after his wife disappears. Now this case may be true, but you
need to be
careful. A Bernie the Boobin Grabber case can be presented any time
and it will make
a big splash. But it shows up now?
The BBC (Bush Backing Cockroaches) are out strong on this. If the
rumors about invading
Iran as part 2 of PNAC have any merit then the timley departure of
Bernie is good news. It
is for that reason that I get suspicious of the "outrage" posts.
Family values is not the issue
here. Be real. If that was the case then there would be calls for Sex
Fairy to be investigated
as she seems to be pro-Bush by day and pervert by night. Who knows
what kind of pics
she gets sent. I guess that ABC investigation team didn't think about
it.
Ciccio
> Possibly, but what the prosecutor thought Bernie sent may have been
> heavily biased by wishful thinking - if there was real evidence that
> 150 had been sent, the prosecutor would presumably have insisted on
> that number.
Not necessarily. Enhancement allegations are set forth in broad
language like that.
Ciccio
Bill Z.
Idiot - the discussion was about how many images the dude actually
sent. That's what people on the thread were talking about.
Patty Winter
In article <e6deed4e-2473-4f75...@l17g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
<needsyour...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Why is
>their no record of anything happening 30 years ago in the church, when
>this attempted kiss between a 16, 17 year old girls wanting beer and a
>24 year old priest that TRIED to kiss them.
Gee, children allege inappropriate behavior by a priest and no
one investigates. What are the odds??? <rolls eyes...>
I just hope that the odds are a lot different now than they were
30 years ago...
Patty
David Kaye
> Gee, children allege inappropriate behavior by a priest and no
> one investigates. What are the odds??? <rolls eyes...>
Still, Bernie has not exactly been hiding out these past 20 years.
I'd think that people would have come forward with accusations against
him when he was investigating everyone else's molestation cases in the
Church. At that time Bernie was everywhere and the cops and news
media were all open-ears when it came to accusations. I'd think that
would have been the perfect time for people to come out with their
charges against Bernie, wouldn't you?
I'm not saying he's guilty or innocent of molestation/attempted rape
charges here; I'm just curious why it took so long to come out, and
only after Dan Noyes gets involved.
Ciccio
> Idiot
You sure are insecure that you need to devolve to name-calling
whenever you are shown to be incorrect.
>- the discussion was about how many images the dude actually
> sent. That's what people on the thread were talking about.
Well, your grammar school name-calling sure isn't narrowly on point.
That said, I was responding to your nonsense that the prosecutor made
it up. Thus, it is relevant to the issue of how many images "the
dude," as you call him, actually sent.
Ciccio
Patty Winter
In article <76a7ccf7-bb29-4df9...@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
David Kaye <sfdavi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On May 9, 4:44 pm, Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> Gee, children allege inappropriate behavior by a priest and no
>> one investigates. What are the odds??? <rolls eyes...>
>
>Still, Bernie has not exactly been hiding out these past 20 years.
>I'd think that people would have come forward with accusations against
>him when he was investigating everyone else's molestation cases in the
>Church. At that time Bernie was everywhere and the cops and news
>media were all open-ears when it came to accusations. I'd think that
>would have been the perfect time for people to come out with their
>charges against Bernie, wouldn't you?
Perhaps. I didn't listen to his show, so I didn't know about his
investigations until they were mentioned in conjunction with his
current legal problems. If these investigations were only mentioned
on his show, then perhaps those young women didn't hear about them,
and thus didn't know that he was involved in the topic. (I realize
that there has been plenty of media coverage of priest abuse, but
I don't recall ever hearing Bernie's name mentioned in conjunction
with investigating the problem.)
My point was simply that Karel was being disingenuous when he found
it odd that there wasn't any record of the girls' accusations. That's
because the procedures used by the Catholic church for decades ensured
that such allegations would never been investigated and recorded.
Patty
DWA...@gmail.com
> In article <76a7ccf7-bb29-4df9-812c-42c775d0e...@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> David Kaye <sfdavidka...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On May 9, 4:44 pm, Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
> >> Gee, children allege inappropriate behavior by a priest and no
> >> one investigates. What are the odds??? <rolls eyes...>
>
> >Still, Bernie has not exactly been hiding out these past 20 years.
> >I'd think that people would have come forward with accusations against
> >him when he was investigating everyone else's molestation cases in the
> >Church. At that time Bernie was everywhere and the cops and news
> >media were all open-ears when it came to accusations. I'd think that
> >would have been the perfect time for people to come out with their
>
> Perhaps. I didn't listen to his show, so I didn't know about his
> investigations until they were mentioned in conjunction with his
> current legal problems. If these investigations were only mentioned
> on his show, then perhaps those young women didn't hear about them,
> and thus didn't know that he was involved in the topic. (I realize
> that there has been plenty of media coverage of priest abuse, but
> I don't recall ever hearing Bernie's name mentioned in conjunction
> with investigating the problem.)
>
> My point was simply that Karel was being disingenuous when he found
> it odd that there wasn't any record of the girls' accusations. That's
> because the procedures used by the Catholic church for decades ensured
> that such allegations would never been investigated and recorded.
>
> Patty
Patty is absolutely right, Karel seemed to be disingenuous in last
night's program. What kind of "written report/evidence" did he
expect to see. As mentioned before, the Church has not been a great
note taker over the decades in all these child molestation
situations. Rather, people of the Church, like Karel, would rather
say, oh it was just a kiss; get over it, now will you.
These further incidents of Bernie trying to abuse 16 and 17 year-old
girls further paints the type of individual Bernie Ward happens to
be. He's a user, an abuser, and a virulent hater. An btw, the "one-
sided animosity" between Bernie and Ronn Owens was generated by Bernie
only; he hated Ronn, and expressed contempt of him on many
occasions. Ronn Owens, who is too much of a gentleman to hold a
grudge against someone, merely became indifferent to Bernie's rage.
Those who listened to him, know what a hateful person Bernie has
been. As Ronn Owens said, if Bernie's comments listed inn the
transcript reported on the Smoking Gun website were accurate, Bernie
is sick, pathetic, and repulsive and definitely needs professional
help. Hopefully he gets it.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0215081ward1.html
spamtr...@gmail.com
>
> <needsyourattent...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Why is
> >their no record of anything happening 30 years ago in the church, when
> >this attempted kiss between a 16, 17 year old girls wanting beer and a
> >24 year old priest that TRIED to kiss them.
>
> Gee, children allege inappropriate behavior by a priest and no
> one investigates. What are the odds??? <rolls eyes...>
When I was 17 I had a full beard and was a sophomore in college. If
anyone (other than mom and dad) had referred to me as a child he
should have had his head examined.
Bill Z.
> On May 9, 4:35 pm, nob...@nospam.pacbell.net (Bill Z.) wrote:
>
> > Idiot
>
> You sure are insecure that you need to devolve to name-calling
> whenever you are shown to be incorrect.
No, you are simply an idiot, as you've shown repeatedly. It's
the best word to describe you.
Bill Z.
Idiot - the discussion was about a claim that Ward had somehow
admitted to sending far more images than everyone thought from
previous accounts, and some posters were quoting 150 as a plausible
Phin
What shocked me about the TV news story and rang true, was the girl
said Bernie was 'disappointed' in her and thought she was 'special'.
This is just the language that predators use. They try to get to you
through telling you that you are special or that they are disappointed
in you if you don't do what they want.
I found her story to be very credible. Unless of course she really is
some professional actress hired by Bush&Co. to smear and discredit
Ward in which case, have fun in your conspiracy dreamworld.
Phin
David Kaye
> My point was simply that Karel was being disingenuous when he found
> it odd that there wasn't any record of the girls' accusations. That's
> because the procedures used by the Catholic church for decades ensured
> that such allegations would never been investigated and recorded.
I've heard this to be true. I spent 4 years in Catholic grade school
and 4 in Catholic high school. While I didn't know of anyone who was
molested or claimed to have been, we did hear a lot of stories about
priests who were suddenly transferred to other parishes, and sometimes
out of the state or out of the country. Later it would seem that a
priest got the wife of a church benefactor pregnant, or the priest had
been selling drugs, or whatever. There were all kinds of coverups in
those cases, so it wouldn't surprise me at all about coverups
regarding molestation.
Ciccio
> No, you are simply an idiot, as you've shown repeatedly. It's
> the best word to describe you.
How pitiful that you are so insecure that you must resort to name
calling. One can only imagine why...
Ciccio
Ciccio
> But as you state facts, be sure you state all of them. Only 1% of all
> cases get turned over to the FBI. Why did this one?
Read the police report, it will tell you how it got turned over to the
FBI.
> Why, almost four years ago now did they remove the computers
There are acceptable reasons for that. One is the very thing you are
advocating, that it wasn't high priority compared to many cases.
Ward's case was one of thousand the U.S. Attorney had to prosecute.
The quality of many of those cases would deteriorate faster than in
Ward's case. After all, no way Ward could unring the bell. Quite
simply, it is common for them to wait years to file many cases based
upon legal triaging. Also, don't forget, the delay was at Ward's
behest so that he could try to informally resolve it..
>and not the kids?
He's not accused of harming HIS kids.
>Why is their no record of anything happening 30 years ago in the church, when
> this attempted kiss between a 16, 17 year old girls wanting beer and a
> 24 year old priest that TRIED to kiss them.
Hello?? It's the Catholic Church...Not the Inspector General's Office.
.We can go on arguing the irrelevant collateral issues. The point is,
however, that it doesn't make Ward any less guilty. He did it. He
admitted it. If he is the great researcher on the subject he touts
himself to be, he had to have known what he was doing was illegal.
Further, even if Ward were doing "research," for a book, he sought to
profit from the book financially and/or professionally. That is, he
sent the child porn to make a profit. I'm sorry, couching it in terms
of "research" doesn't sugar coat that fact. He put himself above the
law relating to a very serious area of crime, and did so with the
intent to profit...That spells p-r-i-s-o-n in my book.
> Scooter Libby betrayed our country and walked free. Mark Foley
> verbally molested Congressional Pages over instant messages and is
> happy living in Florida. Bernie looked at a bunch of photos he
> shouldn't have for whatever reason, and then sent one to a dominatrix,
> one whom he had been having disgusting conversations.
Were you born yesterday?? Some people get away, some don't. That's
life. Bernie, apparently, is one who didn't get away.
> Thought crimes, and he goes to jail for five years or more. Does that make any sense?
Sending child porn is not a "thought" crime, it's an "action" crime.
> I support my friend but hate his crime. That's called forgiveness and
> compassion. Sorry no one here understands that.
Oh, I applaud you for standing by your friend. Where you are a
scumbag ,however, is vilifying his victims and justifying his crimes.
Such is unnecessary to support and forgive your friend.
Ciccio
John Slade
"Bill Z." <nob...@nospam.pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:87hcd74...@nospam.pacbell.net...
> gvk...@yahoo.com writes:
>
>> Just ONE day later, in court, Bernie is forced to admit the truth of
>> what really happened. No lies allowed this time.
>> Suddenly the things he told Karel turn out to be nothing close to the
>> truth. One photo of children that was supposed to be just "a mother
>> and her child in a nudist camp" turns into 15 to 150 photos involving
>> "prepubescent children engaged in sexually explicit conduct, some with
>> sadistic, masochistic or violent conduct."
>
> <http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/05/09/MNIR10J9JC.DTL>
> it seems that "The plea agreement he signed, quoted in court,
> contained an admission that he had sent between 15 and 150
> pornographic images via e-mail." So, "15 to 150" was negotiated in a
> plea bargain.
>
> Regarding the First Amendment defense his lawyer wanted to use,
> "Weinberg said he still believes Ward had a legitimate defense but one
> that was too risky to pursue. Any leniency that prosecutors are now
> offering would disappear after a trial and conviction, he said, and
> the price would be an additional 'five or six years of a man's life.'"
>
> The "15 to 150" images was most likely made up by the DA, who
> figuratively held a sword over Ward's head - either sign the agreement
> or risk a much longer stay in jail. The range is not believable -
> it's not like it was "15 to 20" or even "150 to 200", which would
> reflect the uncertainty in the precise number that most people in that
> situation would have. It's the factor of 10 that is the problem:
> if you asked someone for an estimate of the distance from the Bay
> Area to LA, would you expect an answer of "400 to 4000 miles"?
I think Bernie should record a statement and put it out there over the
Internet. Let him tell his side of the story if he can legally disclose that
stuff. That's a really vague number "15 to 150".
John
Bill Z.
How pitiful that you have to try to cover up your idiocy after making
a fool of yourself over and over.
Patty Winter
In article <ffc8531c-48bb-432d...@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
<DWA...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> As mentioned before, the Church has not been a great
>note taker over the decades in all these child molestation
>situations. Rather, people of the Church, like Karel, would rather
>say, oh it was just a kiss; get over it, now will you.
And not just Karel. A quote from Christine Craft's show last night:
"He tried to kiss them, and they've been suffering ever since. You
know, I've gotta tell you, if you're a woman, any woman in this
country from the time of probably 15 has had people trying to kiss
her, okay? So get over it."
Patty
Bill Z.
DWA...@gmail.com
> In article <ffc8531c-48bb-432d-9913-d2e6fd19f...@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Yes, Patty, Christine is an idot as well. I started to listen to the
first part of her show last night and just about got sick, so turned
to another station. She went on and on about how she just wanted to
call or write or email Bernie to tell him something valuable. But she
went on to say, "... well I just couldn't think of anything valuable
to say or to add...". I was not surprised at her comment for she
seldom has anything valuable to say or add, which is why I normally
don't listen to her infrequent programs.
Then she made a beckoning call over the air to Berine with something
like, "Bernie, I hope you know I believe in the power of redemption,
blah, blah, blah.... " She was pathetic. And yes I find her thinking
perfectly aligned with Karel's. They are both nut cases for sure.
It's like Alice in Wonderland where up is down and down is up. And
somehow people are suppose to take them seriously; unfortunately
many kooks do, just as they blindly followed Bernie. And even though
Bernie has admitted to some pretty sad stuff, they're all still in
denial. Some contend it's a "Swift Boat Conspriacy" or a "Vast Right
Wing Conspiracy" that has caused Bernie all his problems. That's
it, blame the government, or someone else for what you've brought on
yourself. And the band plays on...
Ciccio
> And not just Karel. A quote from Christine Craft's show last night:
> "He tried to kiss them, and they've been suffering ever since. You
> know, I've gotta tell you, if you're a woman, any woman in this
> country from the time of probably 15 has had people trying to kiss
> her, okay? So get over it."
I find it amusing when radio entertainers mix up their shtick. Being
pro-women's rights one show, then the next night excusing sexual
harassment upon a girl by a trusted teacher. That's even funnier than
Ray T with his flip flopping. Though it works. I stay tuned to Ray T
for about 20 minutes, instead of 5, when he's running down Billy
Clinton, to disparage Hillary. Yet, during Clinton's impeachment, Ray
T would tout Clinton as the greatest president ever...It does get me
chuckling.
That would be good for one of those Mike Amatori tapes...running Ray T
tirades during Clinton's presidency juxtaposed with his tirades since
Obama became a front runner. That would be ROTFL. Come on Patty, you
know if want to avoid a travesty of serious social commentary you
don't tune in to KGO...You tune in to C-SPAN. Of course, there's
nothing wrong with enjoying either of them. Like they
say..."Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."
Ciccio
Peter
> I stay tuned to Ray T
> for about 20 minutes, instead of 5, when he's running down Billy
> Clinton, to disparage Hillary. Yet, during Clinton's impeachment, Ray
> T would tout Clinton as the greatest president ever...It does get me
> chuckling.
Today's guest on "Bob Brinker's Moneytalk", they discussed the various
presidential candidates, and some of the past president, and, indeed,
the present president.
Brinker always hands the guests "softball" questions and lead-ins on
Republicans, but does just the opposite on Democrats.
The guest surprised Bob, likely the entire audience, and certainly me,
by stating that George W. Bush was not qualified to be a U.S.
president, but Jeb Bush was.
George W. Bush not qualified to be president?
My, my, my, my, my!
--
"I will fight terror as if there was no problem with Bush, and I will
fight Bush as if there was no problem with terror" - John Rothmann
--
Peter
Ciccio
> Today's guest on "Bob Brinker's Moneytalk", they discussed the various
> presidential candidates, and some of the past president, and, indeed,
> the present president.
>
> Brinker always hands the guests "softball" questions and lead-ins on
> Republicans, but does just the opposite on Democrats.
>
> The guest surprised Bob, likely the entire audience, and certainly me,
> by stating that George W. Bush was not qualified to be a U.S.
> president, but Jeb Bush was.
Are you talking about Tom Schatz who was on the last hour?
Ciccio