Slow Descenders on La Honda East
gordon....@gmail.com
Saturday afternoon two bicyclists were heading eastbound down La Honda
Road East, between Skyline and Portola. They were descending at a
maximum of 15 to 20 mph, slower on the curves. The lead rider,
wearing a pink jersey with blue accents, appeared to be an insecure
descender, while the trailing rider took the middle of the lane to
prevent his riding partner from feeling threatened by autos attempting
to pass. A dozen impatient auto drivers quickly formed up behind the
two bikes.
My recollection is that La Honda Road is striped solid double over
this entire stretch of road. My understanding of the vehicle code is
that autos may not cross the double yellow in this situation, no
matter how slowly the bicyclists are going. On the other hand, slow
moving traffic is obligated to turn out where it is safe.
Neither of these was happening. The bicyclists stayed in the middle
of the roadway, and cars crossed the double yellow line to pass them.
As a bicyclist myself, I have never observed cars respect a solid
double yellow when passing bicyclists. I have also never seen anyone
descend La Honda that slowly. What should have happened in this
case? Were the bicyclists supposed to turn out? Should the cars have
stayed to the right of the centerline?
Tom Kunich
by as all slow traffic is supposed to. And like all slow traffic usually
doesn't you have to just put up with it. The time difference down that road
was hardly worth talking about and that it bothers you so much is something
you ought to think about.
<gordon....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b13fc743-7575-431c...@j1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
bfd
This scenario is exactly why I think its crazy that cyclist "descend"
down the east side of OLH. Why? Maybe its because these riders are
inexperience or scared? The proper way to descend down from skyline,
hwy 35, is to go down Hwy 84 east. Its fast, lots of wide turns and
cars can see you. I have NEVER had a problem descending Hwy 84.
bfd
> Gordon - obviously the cyclist should have pulled over and let the traffic
> by as all slow traffic is supposed to. And like all slow traffic usually
> doesn't you have to just put up with it. The time difference down that road
> was hardly worth talking about and that it bothers you so much is something
> you ought to think about.
>
riders descending down OLH east caused cars to cross the double yellow
to pass them. That means these cars are going into the lane where
riders are going up. I agree that the riders were inconsiderate and
should have pulled over. Its probably inexperienced riders who didn't
know what they were doing.
Tom Kunich
news:5f039f28-c738-4652...@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> This scenario is exactly why I think its crazy that cyclist "descend"
> down the east side of OLH. Why? Maybe its because these riders are
> inexperience or scared? The proper way to descend down from skyline,
> hwy 35, is to go down Hwy 84 east. Its fast, lots of wide turns and
> cars can see you. I have NEVER had a problem descending Hwy 84.
What would make you believe that a busy road such as Highway 84, with lots
of VERY old drivers would be safer than a very lightly used road such as Old
La Honda Rd?
Tom Kunich
On Aug 17, 3:39 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > Gordon - obviously the cyclist should have pulled over and let the
> > traffic
> > by as all slow traffic is supposed to. And like all slow traffic usually
> > doesn't you have to just put up with it. The time difference down that
> > road
> > was hardly worth talking about and that it bothers you so much is
> > something
> > you ought to think about.
> >
> The problem here is not just the slow traffic, but that these slow
> riders descending down OLH east caused cars to cross the double yellow
> to pass them.
So ---- it is the slower descender who forces these drivers to break the
law? Perhaps you'd like to think about that. I usually descend faster than
the cars on Old La Honda so are then forcing me to break the law should I
pass them?
> I agree that the riders were inconsiderate and should have
> pulled over. Its probably inexperienced riders who didn't
> know what they were doing.
Let's be frank - there are FAR more incompetent DRIVERS descending Old La
Honda who are going entirely too fast and who are endangering far more
people. Drivers that can't wait the mere minute that a really bad bicyclist
would increase the descent time have something pretty seriously wrong with
them.
gordon....@gmail.com
Highway 84. It did not happen on Old La Honda Road. Sorry if that
wasn't clear from my original posting.
Other bicycle riders were also frustrated by the delay. They got past
the slow riders by passing to the right. These slow descenders had
annoyed motorists passing on their left and annoyed bike riders
passing on their right.
I observe that both drivers and bike riders have a "go fast" urge that
is difficult for many of them to resist.
Tom Kunich
news:b33bb8a4-ccaa-41a9...@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
My apologies Gordon. Since La Honda Rd (Hwy 84) is a major thoroughfare I
agree that slower vehicles should pull off when traffic builds up behind
them. And most of the route allows that for something like a bicycle.
I will say that I've spent the same sort of time behind cars driven by
people afraid of mountain roads as well.
Mike Jacoubowsky
I don't understand why a cyclist would descend 84 that slowly and *want* to have all those cars backed up behind you. Wouldn't it make you nervous? I descend 84 pretty rapidly (sometimes *very* rapidly) and yet once in a while there's still a car that can do better. Fine, if that's the case, I'll pull over where it's safe to do so and let the car pass. Who needs someone sitting on your tail?
Beyond that it's just impolite to slow people down for very long. Sure, there's the argument that the cars behind might be inconvenienced for what, 30 seconds? A minute? Two minutes? But if it's safe to let them pass, and it's not going to be much bother, why wouldn't you?
When I was teaching my son how to descend, he was pretty sketchy coming down 84 the first couple of times, and we pulled over a couple times each trip to let cars pass. We *could* have taken the lane and let them wait, but why? And, for what it's worth, I've had many trips down 84 where cars did the same for me. Someone who didn't want to go down the hill very fast pulled over and let me go by. And no, I wasn't sitting right off their bumper. It's just the nice thing to do.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Don Freeman
> "bfd" <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>> I agree that the riders were inconsiderate and should have
>> pulled over. Its probably inexperienced riders who didn't
>> know what they were doing.
>
> Let's be frank - there are FAR more incompetent DRIVERS descending Old
> La Honda who are going entirely too fast and who are endangering far
> more people. Drivers that can't wait the mere minute that a really bad
> bicyclist would increase the descent time have something pretty
> seriously wrong with them.
>
So since there are so many bad drivers that excuses us our
inconsiderations? It is beliefs like that which give our community such
a bad reputation among the general public.
Tom Kunich
news:48a9a328$0$17187$742e...@news.sonic.net...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Let's be frank - there are FAR more incompetent DRIVERS descending Old La
>> Honda who are going entirely too fast and who are endangering far more
>> people. Drivers that can't wait the mere minute that a really bad
>> bicyclist would increase the descent time have something pretty seriously
>> wrong with them.
>
> So since there are so many bad drivers that excuses us our
> inconsiderations? It is beliefs like that which give our community such a
> bad reputation among the general public.
So tell me why you're taking the blame for another person? And why are you
implying that because someone else acts like that, that I do as well simply
because I ride a bicycle as they do?
I have the feeling that you'd never classify one car driver with another for
the simple reason that they both drive cars and yet you're willing to
classify all bicyclists as the same because OF the bicycle.
Don Freeman
Tom,
Maybe you should read the posts you reply to at least twice, then
re-read you reply before sending it. You are exhibiting all the
symptoms of being a knee-jerk responder.
I never implied that you performed the acts that generated this thread.
It was your response implying that it was ok for the cyclists involved
to act inconsiderate because "there are FAR more incompetent DRIVERS
descending Old La Honda".
I know that you are a competent bicyclist, but because of that maybe you
could be a little less incendiary towards the other people that share
the road with us. As only the competent have the credibility to be
diplomats, which we need more of.
Tom Kunich
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> "Don Freeman" <free...@cosmoslair.com> wrote in message
>> news:48a9a328$0$17187$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Let's be frank - there are FAR more incompetent DRIVERS descending Old
>>>> La Honda who are going entirely too fast and who are endangering far
>>>> more people. Drivers that can't wait the mere minute that a really bad
>>>> bicyclist would increase the descent time have something pretty
>>>> seriously wrong with them.
>>>
>>> So since there are so many bad drivers that excuses us our
>>> inconsiderations? It is beliefs like that which give our community such
>>> a bad reputation among the general public.
>>
>> So tell me why you're taking the blame for another person? And why are
>> you implying that because someone else acts like that, that I do as well
>> simply because I ride a bicycle as they do?
>>
>> I have the feeling that you'd never classify one car driver with another
>> for the simple reason that they both drive cars and yet you're willing to
>> classify all bicyclists as the same because OF the bicycle.
>
> you reply before sending it. You are exhibiting all the symptoms of being
> a knee-jerk responder.
You wrote: "that excuses us our inconsiderations?" That seems to indicate
that you classify ALL cyclists in a single group.
> I never implied that you performed the acts that generated this thread. It
> was your response implying that it was ok for the cyclists involved to act
> inconsiderate because "there are FAR more incompetent DRIVERS descending
> Old La Honda".
No, most people would read that as intended - that there are MORE
incompetent or impolite DRIVERS than there are bicyclists. And that is
plainly documented by the accident and fatality rates.
> I know that you are a competent bicyclist, but because of that maybe you
> could be a little less incendiary towards the other people that share the
> road with us. As only the competent have the credibility to be diplomats,
> which we need more of.
Just so we're on a level playing field - I happen to respect the rights of
car drivers on the road. Whenever possible I don't hold them up. In return I
only ask the same respect for my road rights and I've almost always gotten
it save the few ignorant dopes who believe that the roads are their own
personal race track.
Rima Neas
Endanger". Why is this such a complicated concept?
Cheers, Shawn
Tom Kunich
news:HLtsk.22632$N87....@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
> The social contract when using public roads is: "Don't Impede and Don't
> Endanger". Why is this such a complicated concept?
Because sometimes you HAVE to impede. What's more, while descending 84 I've
been going much faster through the corners than cars and yet they would
accelerate HARD to catch up to me before the next turn when they could have
descended at a good rate without ever getting close to me. Smart asses think
absolutely nothing about endangering other road users and I've never seen a
cop do anything about that sort of thing.