NORWAY: Nutty Right Winger WORSE lone mass murder in history... 80+

John Boner

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Jul 23, 2011, 1:03:12 AM7/23/11

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Norway horror: 80 die in camp shooting, 7 in blast
APBy KARL RITTER - Associated Press,NILS MYKLEBOST - Associated Press
| AP – 53 mins ago

In this photo taken by Vergard M. Aas, a Norwegian crime reporter
who responded to the scene of a mass shooting on Utoya Island, Norway,
victims lie near the shoreline approximately one hour after police say
a man dressed as a police officer gunned down youths as they ran and
even swam for their lives at a camp which was organized by the youth
wing of the ruling Labor Party, Friday July 22, 2011. Police say the
suspect in this shooting set off a fatal explosion hours earlier in
the Norwegian capital of Oslo. (AP Photo/Presse 3.0, Vegard M. Aas)

In this photo taken by Vergard M. Aas, a Norwegian crime reporter
who responded to …
An injured woman is assisted from a damaged building in Oslo,
Friday July 22, 2011, after an explosion rocked the capital. Terrorism
ravaged long-peaceful Norway on Friday when a bomb ripped open
buildings including the prime minister's office and a man dressed as a
police officer opened fire at a nearby island youth camp. (AP
Photo/Scanpix, Morten Holm) NORWAY OUT

An injured woman is assisted from a damaged building in Oslo,
Friday July 22, 2011, …

OSLO, Norway (AP) — A Norwegian who dressed as a police officer to gun
down summer campers killed at least 80 people at an island retreat,
horrified police said early Saturday. It took investigators several
hours to begin the realize the full scope of Friday's massacre, which
followed an explosion in nearby Oslo that killed seven and that police
say was set off by the same suspect.

The mass shootings are among the worst in history. With the blast
outside the prime minister's office, they formed the deadliest day of
terror in Western Europe since the 2004 Madrid train bombings killed
191.

Police initially said about 10 were killed at the forested camp on the
island of Utoya, but some survivors said they thought the toll was
much higher. Police director Oystein Maeland told reporters early
Saturday they had discovered many more victims.

"It's taken time to search the area. What we know now is that we can
say that there are at least 80 killed at Utoya," Maeland said. "It
goes without saying that this gives dimensions to this incident that
are exceptional."

Maeland said the death toll could rise even more. He said others were
severely injured, but police didn't know how many were hurt.

A suspect in the shootings and the Oslo explosion was arrested. Though
police did not release his name, Norwegian national broadcaster NRK
identified him as 32-year-old Anders Behring Breivik and said police
searched his Oslo apartment overnight. NRK and other Norwegian media
posted pictures of the blond, blue-eyed Norwegian.

National police chief Sveinung Sponheim told NRK that the suspected
gunman's Internet postings "suggest that he has some political traits
directed toward the right, and anti-Muslim views, but whether that was
a motivation for the actual act remains to be seen."

A police official said the suspect appears to have acted alone in both
attacks, and that "it seems like that this is not linked to any
international terrorist organizations at all." The official spoke on
condition of anonymity because that information had not been
officially released by Norway's police.

"It seems it's not Islamic-terror related," the official said. "This
seems like a madman's work."

The official said the attack "is probably more Norway's Oklahoma City
than it is Norway's World Trade Center." Domestic terrorists carried
out the 1995 attack on a federal building in Oklahoma City, while
foreign terrorists were responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

The official added, however, "it's still just hours since the incident
happened. And the investigation is going on with all available
resources."

The motive was unknown, but both attacks were in areas connected to
the ruling Labor Party government. The youth camp, about 20 miles (35
kilometers) northwest of Oslo, is organized by the party's youth wing,
and the prime minister had been scheduled to speak there Saturday.

A 15-year-old camper named Elise said she heard gunshots, but then saw
a police officer and thought she was safe. Then he started shooting
people right before her eyes.

"I saw many dead people," said Elise, whose father, Vidar Myhre,
didn't want her to disclose her last name. "He first shot people on
the island. Afterward he started shooting people in the water."

Elise said she hid behind the same rock that the killer was standing
on. "I could hear his breathing from the top of the rock," she said.

She said it was impossible to say how many minutes passed while she
was waiting for him to stop.

At a hotel in the village of Sundvollen, where survivors of the
shooting were taken, 21-year-old Dana Berzingi wore pants stained with
blood. He said the fake police officer ordered people to come closer,
then pulled weapons and ammunition from a bag and started shooting.

Several victims "had pretended as if they were dead to survive,"
Berzingi said. But after shooting the victims with one gun, the gunman
shot them again in the head with a shotgun, he said.

"I lost several friends," said Berzingi, who used the cell phone of
one of those friends to call police.

The blast in Oslo, Norway's capital and the city where the Nobel Peace
Prize is awarded, left a square covered in twisted metal, shattered
glass and documents expelled from surrounding buildings. Most of the
windows in the 20-floor high-rise where Prime Minister Jens
Stoltenberg and his administration work were shattered. Other
buildings damaged house government offices and the headquarters of
some of Norway's leading newspapers.

The dust-fogged scene after the blast reminded one visitor from New
York of Sept. 11.

Ian Dutton, who was in a nearby hotel, said people "just covered in
rubble" were walking through "a fog of debris."

"It wasn't any sort of a panic," he said, "It was really just people
in disbelief and shock, especially in a such as safe and open country
as Norway. You don't even think something like that is possible."

Police said the Oslo explosion was caused by "one or more" bombs.

The police official who spoke on condition of anonymity said the Oslo
bombing occurred at 3:26 p.m. local time (1:26 p.m. GMT), and the camp
shootings began one to two hours later. The official said the gunman
used both automatic weapons and handguns, and that there was at least
one unexploded device at the youth camp that a police bomb disposal
team and military experts were working on disarming.

The suspect had only a minor criminal record, the official said.

Sponheim said seven people were killed by the blast in downtown Oslo,
four of whom have been identified, and that nine or 10 people were
seriously injured.

Sponheim said a man was arrested in the shooting, and the suspect had
been observed in Oslo before the explosion there.

Sponheim said the camp shooter "wore a sweater with a police sign on
it. I can confirm that he wasn't a police employee and never has
been."

Aerial images broadcast by Norway's TV2 showed members of a SWAT team
dressed in black arriving at the island in boats and running up the
dock. Behind them, people who stripped down to their underwear swam
away from the island toward shore, some using flotation devices.

Sponheim said police were still trying to get an overview of the camp
shooting and could not say whether there was more than one shooter. He
would not give any details about the identity or nationality of the
suspect, who was being interrogated by police.

Oslo University Hospital said 12 people were admitted for treatment
following the Utoya shooting, and 11 people were taken there from the
explosion in Oslo. The hospital asked people to donate blood.

Stoltenberg, who was home when the blast occurred and was not harmed,
visited injured people at the hospital late Friday. Earlier he decried
what he called "a cowardly attack on young innocent civilians."

"I have message to those who attacked us," he said. "It's a message
from all of Norway: You will not destroy our democracy and our
commitment to a better world."

NRK showed video in Oslo of a blackened car lying on its side amid the
debris. An AP reporter who was in the office of Norwegian news agency
NTB said the building shook from the blast and all employees were
evacuated. Down in the street, he saw one person with a bleeding leg
being led away from the area.

An AP reporter headed to Utoya was turned away by police before
reaching the lake that surrounds the island, as eight ambulances with
sirens blaring entered the area. Police blocked off roads leading to
the lake.

The United States, European Union, NATO and the U.K., all quickly
condemned the bombing, which Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague
called "horrific" and NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen
deemed a "heinous act."

"It's a reminder that the entire international community has a stake
in preventing this kind of terror from occurring," President Barack
Obama said.

Obama extended his condolences to Norway's people and offered U.S.
assistance with the investigation. He said he remembered how warmly
Norwegians treated him in Oslo when he accepted the Nobel Peace Prize
in 2009.

Nobel Peace Prize Chairman Thorbjorn Jagland said it appeared the camp
attack "was intended to hurt young citizens who actively engage in our
democratic and political society. But we must not be intimidated. We
need to work for freedom and democracy every day."

A U.S. counterterrorism official said the United States knew of no
links to terrorist groups and early indications were the attack was
domestic. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the
investigation was being handled by Norway.

At least two Islamic extremist groups had tried to take credit for the
attacks. Many intelligence analysts said they had never heard of
Helpers of Global Jihad, which took initial credit. The Kurdish group
Ansar al-Islam also took credit on some jihadist web sites.

Norway has been grappling with a homegrown terror plot linked to
al-Qaida. Two suspects are in jail awaiting charges.

Last week, a Norwegian prosecutor filed terror charges against an
Iraqi-born cleric for threatening Norwegian politicians with death if
he is deported from the Scandinavian country. The indictment centered
on statements that Mullah Krekar — the founder of Ansar al-Islam —
made to various news media, including American network NBC.

Terrorism has also been a concern in neighboring Denmark since an
uproar over cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad six years ago.

___

Ritter reported from Stockholm. Associated Press reporters Bjoern H.
Amland in Hoenefoss, Norway, Louise Nordstrom in Stockholm, Matthew
Lee and Rita Foley in Washington, Paisley Dodds in London, and Paul
Schemm in Tripoli, Libya, contributed to this report.

RomMittney

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Jul 23, 2011, 9:59:58 AM7/23/11

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On Jul 23, 1:03 am, John Boner <JohnBo...@CrazyEyedRepublicans.com>
wrote:

Norway horror: 80 die in camp shooting, 7 in blast
APBy KARL RITTER - Associated Press,NILS MYKLEBOST - Associated Press
| AP – 53 mins ago

In this photo taken by Vergard M. Aas, a Norwegian crime reporter
who responded to the scene of a mass shooting on Utoya Island, Norway,

victims lie near the shoreline ...

==============
WHAT PHOTO, ASSWIPE?

N∅ M∅ ∅baMa∅

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Jul 23, 2011, 10:54:00 AM7/23/11

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http://www.thirdage.com/files/originals/jared-lee-loughner-photo-after-arrest-tucson-arizona_314.jpg

Sid9

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Jul 23, 2011, 11:51:41 AM7/23/11

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"NØ MØ ØbaMaØ" <obamao.sux....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115bd3a-02d0-4552...@br5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

.
.
.
Right wing loonies are identical to right wing Islamic loonies...there is NO
difference.

Algonquin J. Calhoon

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Jul 23, 2011, 12:14:43 PM7/23/11

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News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
stuff from the government.

Moder@tor

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Jul 23, 2011, 12:36:16 PM7/23/11

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Actually, your typical right wing, Christian extremist nut job. But nice try,
Spammy.

A...@1.com

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Jul 23, 2011, 12:45:42 PM7/23/11

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On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:14:43 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
<at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:

That would describe you, Spammy Fag, you stupid piece of shit.

SMITH29

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Jul 23, 2011, 1:38:54 PM7/23/11

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xxxx
Poking m00nbats with the stick again?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
They have enough on the entitlement plate with boner walking away from
negotiations.
I sure hope the R's stick to their cap pistols on NO TAX INCREASE!!!!!!
Butt I strongly doubt it.

First Post

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Jul 23, 2011, 2:32:48 PM7/23/11

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Funny that a so called right wing Christian extremist lists his
favorite books on his face book page to be those written by a liberal
and two socialists.

So far the only thing showing him to actually be right wing and
Christian is a single line from a news article proclaiming him to be
so without giving any indication as to why they label him that way.

Meanwhile

A group called "Helpers of Global Jihad"
has taken responsibility for the bomb which
ripped open buildings, including the prime
minister's office, in Norway's capital, CBS
News has learned.

It is apparently the same local shadowy
extremist group that the Stockholm bomber
in December 2010 had said he was
connected to.

In the 2010 Stockholm blast, the bomb, in
a backpack, went off prematurely and the
bomber blew himself up. However, the
bomber had left behind a video protesting
the Afghanistan war and the killing of
Muslims.

There is no confirmation that this group
was indeed responsible. Investigators are
also trying to determine if there are links to
this jihadist group with the core al Qaeda
organization. They are looking too to see if
there may be a connection to three al
Qaeda individuals recently arrested in
Norway.

Traditionally on a Friday in Norway,
government workers are allowed to leave
early at 3 p.m. for the weekend -- and
investigators speculate that the bomb may
have been intended to inflict big casualty
damage at that time.

The bomb -- an improvised explosive
device -- may have been contained in a
vehicle. The size and type of bomb is
unknown at this time. Though a powerful
blast, the bomb didn't bring down any
buildings like the Oklahoma City bombing.

This Norway bomb was a significant blast
but mostly glass and debris damage.
There was no big crater immediately
evident.

CBS News
http://www.wtsp.com/news/national/article/202242/81/Global-Jihad-group-says-its-behind-Oslo-blast

Teabagwomenarehot

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Jul 23, 2011, 2:41:45 PM7/23/11

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Me too! I hope that they bankrupt the country even if it really isn't
necessary. I walked away from an underwater house just like that. I had
not lost my job or suffered a loss of income and could afford my
mortgage payments but the house lost value and we just don't roll that
way. Since I could screw the loan provider, I did. The US should do the
same. Screw China and if Grand Ma has US bonds, screw her too. She'll be
moving in with Sonny pretty soon anyway when we bankrupt Social Security
on purpose.

pilotis

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Jul 23, 2011, 3:22:43 PM7/23/11

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If you could be located and jailed it would be a great thing.

hal lillywhite

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Jul 23, 2011, 3:22:40 PM7/23/11

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On Jul 23, 11:41 am, Teabagwomenarehot <Teabagwo...@hotflash.org>
wrote:

> Me too! I hope that they bankrupt the country even if it really isn't
> necessary. I walked away from an underwater house just like that. I had
> not lost my job or suffered a loss of income and could afford my
> mortgage payments but the house lost value and we just don't roll that
> way. Since I could screw the loan provider, I did.

You don't roll that way? Just who signed those mortgage payments
agreeing to re-pay what you borrowed? Doesn't it bother you that you
welched on a promise?

You screwed depositors and U.S. taxpayers who foot the bill if the
bank goes under. You are a thief and I hope you realize that fact.
In fact if you could have made your payments I hope the bank goes
after your paycheck so I and other taxpayers don't get stuck with your
thievery.

First Post

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Jul 23, 2011, 3:44:45 PM7/23/11

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http://www.barackobamavideos.net/strategic-default-should-you-walk-away-from-your-mortgage

hal lillywhite

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Jul 23, 2011, 4:29:05 PM7/23/11

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> http://www.barackobamavideos.net/strategic-default-should-you-walk-aw...

"Don't punish me teacher, Johnny did it too." That is the worst
excuse in the book and when I tried it as a kid my father excoriated
me for not thinking independently. You remain a thief regardless of
how much company you have in that category.

If you still can you should go to the bank, catch up on payments, and
live up to your agreement.

Algonquin J. Calhoon

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Jul 23, 2011, 4:43:53 PM7/23/11

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No, he was a member of NAMBLA and was wearing an Obama butt plug just
like Sanders Kaufman. He was upset because he can't get Ameerican
Welfare unless he can get ID showing he is an illegal Mexican, and he
has to get to the embassy.

Algonquin J. Calhoon

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Jul 23, 2011, 4:45:59 PM7/23/11

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On 7/23/2011 11:32 AM, First Post wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:36:16 +0200, "Moder@tor"<Mo...@tor.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:14:43 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
>> <at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
>>> frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
>>> stuff from the government.
>>
>> Actually, your typical right wing, Christian extremist nut job. But nice try,
>> Spammy.
>
> Funny that a so called right wing Christian extremist lists his
> favorite books on his face book page to be those written by a liberal
> and two socialists.
>
> So far the only thing showing him to actually be right wing and
> Christian is a single line from a news article proclaiming him to be
> so without giving any indication as to why they label him that way.

The Obama reelection team pays any news media for inserting those types
of propaganda.
Just like Sanders Kaufman admits to being a paid poster.

>
> Meanwhile
>
> A group called "Helpers of Global Jihad"
> has taken responsibility for the bomb which
> ripped open buildings, including the prime
> minister's office, in Norway's capital, CBS
> News has learned.

That group must include our Tar Baby, because he helps all he can.
>
>

Algonquin J. Calhoon

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Jul 23, 2011, 4:46:37 PM7/23/11

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I am not Michael McAffee.

Bluesfan2U

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Jul 23, 2011, 4:48:15 PM7/23/11

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Keep up that kind of talk and folks here will accuse you of being a
progressive Democrat.

What kind of right wing, conservative, business oriented person would
advocate such a behavior? You heard the business professors in that
clip. They say that it would be a "sin" to burden themselves unnecessary
by paying more than the market requires for housing. Here in AZ, it is
legal to stiff the banks for a house that is underwater. Apparently the
conservatives who make the laws here feel that banks take risk when they
make loans on houses that turn out not to be worth the amount of the
loans. Risk justifies the interests rate that they charge on those
loans. It is the "invisible hand of the market". The all powerful and
all knowing market is responsible, or so the right wingers say.

You need to examine your conservative credentials, Hal. And BTW,
congrats on your current opinion. We can agree on something.

Algonquin J. Calhoon

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Jul 23, 2011, 4:50:48 PM7/23/11

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On 7/23/2011 10:38 AM, SMITH29 wrote:

How can Boehner negotiate with a piece of Jello like Obama. All Obama
wants is more tax payer money to spend on his jihadist brothers and
vacations for the wookie.

Algonquin J. Calhoon

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Jul 23, 2011, 4:52:29 PM7/23/11

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Evidently you don't understand that your brown messiah and the Democrats
put us in this position and haven't had a budget in two years. They
still don't have any idea of a plan. You must be black or one of Obama's
parasitic hangers on. You failure in life.

hal lillywhite

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Jul 23, 2011, 5:04:35 PM7/23/11

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PS. I commend for your reading my three-part blog on mob rule which
can be found at:

http://hallillywhite.blogspot.com/2009/07/mob-rule-part-1.html

http://hallillywhite.blogspot.com/2009/07/mob-rule-part-2.html

and

http://hallillywhite.blogspot.com/2009/07/mob-rule-part-3.html

Your idea to just follow the crowd is a part of the mob effect.

hal lillywhite

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Jul 23, 2011, 5:11:04 PM7/23/11

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On Jul 23, 1:48 pm, Bluesfan2U <bluesfa...@fun.ogr> wrote:

> > "Don't punish me teacher, Johnny did it too." That is the worst
> > excuse in the book and when I tried it as a kid my father excoriated
> > me for not thinking independently. You remain a thief regardless of
> > how much company you have in that category.
>
> > If you still can you should go to the bank, catch up on payments, and
> > live up to your agreement.
>
> Keep up that kind of talk and folks here will accuse you of being a
> progressive Democrat.

Unlikely but they may accuse me of standing for integrity.

> What kind of right wing, conservative, business oriented person would
> advocate such a behavior?

My father for one, and myself, and lots of people I know. We realize
that sometimes the value of what we buy declines, be it stock, houses,
etc. Independence and freedom require that we live with our
decisions.

>You heard the business professors in that
> clip. They say that it would be a "sin" to burden themselves unnecessary
> by paying more than the market requires for housing.

I don't think they used the word sin in that regard, and not everyone
quoted supports that legalized theft.

> Here in AZ, it is
> legal to stiff the banks for a house that is underwater.

A law that should be changed but that's up to you folks. We got
enough problems with our politicians here in Oregon, one just made the
news again for his slimy behavior.

>Apparently the
> conservatives who make the laws here feel that banks take risk when they
> make loans on houses that turn out not to be worth the amount of the
> loans. Risk justifies the interests rate that they charge on those
> loans. It is the "invisible hand of the market". The all powerful and
> all knowing market is responsible, or so the right wingers say.
>
> You need to examine your conservative credentials, Hal. And BTW,
> congrats on your current opinion. We can agree on something.

I don't really care if I'm considered conservative or not. I try to
follow what is right and best for our country. That means being truly
progressive, not going back to pre-revolution government knows all
mindset which most "progressives" today want to do. They are not
progressive, they are regressive. I believe in freedom and individual
responsibility.

Moder@tor

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Jul 23, 2011, 5:19:28 PM7/23/11

to

On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:32:48 -0500, First Post <Progres...@Invalid.org>
wrote:

>On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:36:16 +0200, "Moder@tor" <Mo...@tor.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:14:43 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
>><at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
>>>frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
>>>stuff from the government.
>>
>>Actually, your typical right wing, Christian extremist nut job. But nice try,
>>Spammy.
>
>Funny that a so called right wing Christian extremist lists his
>favorite books on his face book page to be those written by a liberal
>and two socialists.

Cite?

>
>So far the only thing showing him to actually be right wing and
>Christian is a single line from a news article proclaiming him to be
>so without giving any indication as to why they label him that way.

I can list at least 25 publications that I have read where he is listed as a
right wing, Christian extremist.

>Meanwhile
>
>A group called "Helpers of Global Jihad"
>has taken responsibility for the bomb which
>ripped open buildings, including the prime
>minister's office, in Norway's capital, CBS
>News has learned.

Found one publication, from Norway, called The Foreigner, where they at first
announced that then later rescinded. All others copied that information,
including most Rightard blogs. Sorry. More evidence exists that he is the
Norwegian equivalence of a Teabagger. Several cites state that he is working
with authorities and wants to state why he did it.

Moder@tor

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Jul 23, 2011, 5:20:17 PM7/23/11

to

On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:43:53 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
<at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:

>On 7/23/2011 9:36 AM, Moder@tor wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:14:43 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
>> <at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
>>> frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
>>> stuff from the government.
>>
>> Actually, your typical right wing, Christian extremist nut job. But nice try,
>> Spammy.
>
>No, he was a member of NAMBLA and was wearing an Obama butt plug just
>like Sanders Kaufman. He was upset because he can't get Ameerican
>Welfare unless he can get ID showing he is an illegal Mexican, and he
>has to get to the embassy.

Spin all you want. If he lived in the US, he would be a Teabagger.

Moder@tor

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Jul 23, 2011, 5:21:28 PM7/23/11

to

On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:45:59 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
<at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:

>On 7/23/2011 11:32 AM, First Post wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:36:16 +0200, "Moder@tor"<Mo...@tor.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:14:43 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
>>> <at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
>>>> frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
>>>> stuff from the government.
>>>
>>> Actually, your typical right wing, Christian extremist nut job. But nice try,
>>> Spammy.
>>
>> Funny that a so called right wing Christian extremist lists his
>> favorite books on his face book page to be those written by a liberal
>> and two socialists.
>>
>> So far the only thing showing him to actually be right wing and
>> Christian is a single line from a news article proclaiming him to be
>> so without giving any indication as to why they label him that way.
>
>The Obama reelection team pays any news media for inserting those types
>of propaganda.
>Just like Sanders Kaufman admits to being a paid poster.

Gee, and you're stupid for free? Seems Sanders is moreintelligent than you. At
least he is getting paid to be stupid.

First Post

Jul 23, 2011, 6:32:19 PM7/23/11

to

They are the same people that believe that the producers should be
forced to support the non producers. Don't think there's much of a
chance of them changing their minds.

Bill Shatzer

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Jul 23, 2011, 7:11:19 PM7/23/11

to

Algonquin J. Calhoon wrote:

> News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
> frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
> stuff from the government.
>

Yeh, right!

Ya' hear that one on Limbaugh - right after he accused the heat index as
being a government plot to support global warming?

peace and justice,

Algonquin J. Calhoon

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Jul 23, 2011, 8:33:01 PM7/23/11

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On 7/23/2011 2:19 PM, Moder@tor wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:32:48 -0500, First Post<Progres...@Invalid.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:36:16 +0200, "Moder@tor"<Mo...@tor.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:14:43 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
>>> <at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
>>>> frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
>>>> stuff from the government.
>>>
>>> Actually, your typical right wing, Christian extremist nut job. But nice try,
>>> Spammy.
>>
>> Funny that a so called right wing Christian extremist lists his
>> favorite books on his face book page to be those written by a liberal
>> and two socialists.
>
> Cite?
>>
>> So far the only thing showing him to actually be right wing and
>> Christian is a single line from a news article proclaiming him to be
>> so without giving any indication as to why they label him that way.
>
> I can list at least 25 publications that I have read where he is listed as a
> right wing, Christian extremist.
>

Go ahead and list them. The guy is a left wing faggot.

Algonquin J. Calhoon

unread,

Jul 23, 2011, 8:34:37 PM7/23/11

to

Like Anderson Cooper, the testicle sucking talking head? Now there is
the original teabagger.

Algonquin J. Calhoon

unread,

Jul 23, 2011, 8:41:10 PM7/23/11

to

It has been widely reported that the guy was a frustrated Socialist
Democrat who wanted more free stuff and didn't want to work anymore.
He had hemorrhoids from is immoral left wing life style, and couldn't
see a doctor until next January because of Socialized Medicine.

Algonquin J. Calhoon

unread,

Jul 23, 2011, 8:49:54 PM7/23/11

to

unread,

Jul 23, 2011, 11:56:34 PM7/23/11

to

On 7/23/2011 2:21 PM, Moder@tor wrote:
>> The Obama reelection team pays any news media for inserting those types
>> of propaganda.
>> Just like Sanders Kaufman admits to being a paid poster.
>
>
> Gee, and you're stupid for free? Seems Sanders is moreintelligent than you. At
> least he is getting paid to be stupid.
>

xxxx
Sanders is fulla crap.

Bill Shatzer

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Jul 24, 2011, 1:02:05 AM7/24/11

to

SMITH29 wrote:

-snip-

> That's what I dislike about the left.They have taught people to hate
> capitalism and corporations.

Maybe if corporations behaved better, they wouldn't be hated so much.

Enron, WorldCom, AIG, Lehman Brothers, Countrywide, Silverado, Bear
Stearns, BP, Arthur Anderson, Lincoln Savings and Loan etc.

peace and justice,

Bill Shatzer

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 1:07:12 AM7/24/11

to

SMITH29 wrote:

> On 7/23/2011 4:11 PM, Bill Shatzer wrote:
>
>> Algonquin J. Calhoon wrote:
>>
>>> News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
>>> frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
>>> stuff from the government.
>>>
>>
>> Yeh, right!
>>
>> Ya' hear that one on Limbaugh - right after he accused the heat index as
>> being a government plot to support global warming?

> You gotta stop listening to that jerk.

I don't. But Jon Stewart keeps me up to date on his more outrageous
bloviations. Ol' Rush is jest a gold mine for political satirists.

peace and justice,

Moder@tor

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 1:19:52 AM7/24/11

to

On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 17:33:01 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
<at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:

>On 7/23/2011 2:19 PM, Moder@tor wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:32:48 -0500, First Post<Progres...@Invalid.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:36:16 +0200, "Moder@tor"<Mo...@tor.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:14:43 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
>>>> <at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
>>>>> frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
>>>>> stuff from the government.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, your typical right wing, Christian extremist nut job. But nice try,
>>>> Spammy.
>>>
>>> Funny that a so called right wing Christian extremist lists his
>>> favorite books on his face book page to be those written by a liberal
>>> and two socialists.
>>
>> Cite?
>>>
>>> So far the only thing showing him to actually be right wing and
>>> Christian is a single line from a news article proclaiming him to be
>>> so without giving any indication as to why they label him that way.
>>
>> I can list at least 25 publications that I have read where he is listed as a
>> right wing, Christian extremist.
>>
>
>Go ahead and list them. The guy is a left wing faggot.

Since you seem to be too stupid to Google them yourself, a quick Google of
'Anders Behring Breivik right wing extremist' produced 46,000 hits. Here are
four quick articles.

http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/oslo-terror-suspect-admits-attacks/

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 2:01:38 AM7/24/11

to

On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 22:38:44 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
<at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:

34,900 hits. Hmm. Looked at the first 25 or so thumbnails and they describe how
he is a right wing, Christian extremist. But keep trying to spin the more than
obvious. It really makes you foam at the mouth to find out that your ilk are
just like the Muslim extremists, doesn't it?

Mike

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 2:36:02 AM7/24/11

to

On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:29:05 -0700 (PDT), hal lillywhite

<hlil...@juno.com> wrote:

> "Don't punish me teacher, Johnny did it too." That is the worst
> excuse in the book and when I tried it as a kid my father excoriated
> me for not thinking independently. You remain a thief regardless of
> how much company you have in that category.
>
> If you still can you should go to the bank, catch up on payments, and
> live up to your agreement.

You are out of your gourd! If you own a house that was mortgaged for
$300k and it is now worth $150k defaulting on the debt is the best thing
you can do for your financial future. 25 years from now that house might
be worth $200k. The days of home values shooting up are past us now so if
the value of your home drops the best business decision would be to
default on the debt and/or file for bankruptcy protection.

It's just biz ness!

Algonquin J. Calhoon

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 3:16:35 AM7/24/11

to

You are a dumb SOB. You are what is known as a time waster.

∅baMa∅ Tse Dung

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 11:49:09 AM7/24/11

to

On Jul 23, 10:51 am, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote:
> "NØ MØ ØbaMaØ" <obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1115bd3a-02d0-4552...@br5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...> On Jul 23, 8:59 am, RomMittney <clitte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Jul 23, 1:03 am, John Boner <JohnBo...@CrazyEyedRepublicans.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> Norway horror: 80 die in camp shooting, 7 in blast
> >> APBy KARL RITTER - Associated Press,NILS MYKLEBOST - Associated Press
> >> | AP – 53 mins ago
>
> >> In this photo taken by Vergard M. Aas, a Norwegian crime reporter
> >> who responded to the scene of a mass shooting on Utoya Island, Norway,
> >> victims lie near the shoreline ...
>
> >> ==============
> >> WHAT PHOTO, ASSWIPE?
>
> >http://www.thirdage.com/files/originals/jared-lee-loughner-photo-afte...
>
> .
> .
> .
> Right wing loonies are identical to right wing Islamic loonies...there is NO
> difference.

Jared Lee Loughner is a bonifide Liberal.

∅baMa∅ Tse Dung

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 11:56:15 AM7/24/11

to

On Jul 23, 1:32 pm, First Post <Progressives...@Invalid.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:36:16 +0200, "Moder@tor" <Mo...@tor.com> wrote:
> >On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:14:43 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
> ><at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
> >>frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
> >>stuff from the government.
>
> >Actually, your typical right wing, Christian extremist nut job. But nice try,
> >Spammy.
>
> Funny that a so called right wing Christian extremist lists his
> favorite books on his face book page to be those written by a liberal
> and two socialists.

What books were they? The facebook page has been removed.

> So far the only thing showing him to actually be right wing and
> Christian is a single line from a news article proclaiming him to be
> so without giving any indication as to why they label him that way.

For Liberal Socialist/Communist Fascists this is more than sufficient.

Norwegian Labour Party's Youth Camp (AUF) on Utya Island, Norway was
for The Workers' Youth League (AUF) which is the youth organization
affiliated with the Norwegian Labour Party.

The Workers' Youth League was formed from a merger of the Left
Communist Youth League and Socialist Youth League of Norway.

The Workers' Youth League is a full member of the International Union
of Socialist Youth (IUSY) and the Joint Committee of the Nordic Labour
Youth Movement (FNSU). The Workers' Youth League is also an observing
member of the Young European Socialists.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fauf.no%2F

National Socialist German Students' League

The National Socialist German Students' League was founded in 1926 as
a division of the The National Socialist German Workers' Party (NAZI
Party) with the mission of integrating University-level education and
academic life within the framework of the National Socialist (Nazism)
worldview.

After Germany's defeat in World War II, the NSDAP along with its
divisions and affiliated organisations were declared "criminal
organizations" and banned by the Allied Control Council on September
10, 1945.

First Post

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 12:01:17 PM7/24/11

to

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 08:56:15 -0700 (PDT), ?baMa? Tse Dung
<0bama0....@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jul 23, 1:32 pm, First Post <Progressives...@Invalid.org> wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:36:16 +0200, "Moder@tor" <Mo...@tor.com> wrote:
>> >On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:14:43 -0700, "Algonquin J. Calhoon"
>> ><at...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >>News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
>> >>frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
>> >>stuff from the government.
>>
>> >Actually, your typical right wing, Christian extremist nut job. But nice try,
>> >Spammy.
>>
>> Funny that a so called right wing Christian extremist lists his
>> favorite books on his face book page to be those written by a liberal
>> and two socialists.
>
>What books were they? The facebook page has been removed.

A Facebook account linked to Breivik cites his
favorite books as John Stuart Mill’s On Liberty, Franz Kafka’s The
Trial, and George Orwell’s 1984

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/norways-capital-shaken-by-bomb-blast/2011/07/22/gIQABA6dTI_story.html

hal lillywhite

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Jul 24, 2011, 12:22:44 PM7/24/11

to

On Jul 23, 3:15 pm, Bluesfan2U <bluesfa...@fun.ogr> wrote:
> On 7/23/2011 2:11 PM, hal lillywhite wrote:
>
> > On Jul 23, 1:48 pm, Bluesfan2U<bluesfa...@fun.ogr> wrote:

>
> >>> "Don't punish me teacher, Johnny did it too." That is the worst
> >>> excuse in the book and when I tried it as a kid my father excoriated
> >>> me for not thinking independently. You remain a thief regardless of
> >>> how much company you have in that category.
>
> >>> If you still can you should go to the bank, catch up on payments, and
> >>> live up to your agreement.
>

> >> Keep up that kind of talk and folks here will accuse you of being a
> >> progressive Democrat.
>
> > Unlikely but they may accuse me of standing for integrity.
>
> Isn't that what I said? :-)

Hah! If you think leftists stand for integrity you invited to look up
something on David Wu, or Barney Frank, or several "Freezer Cash"
Jefferson etc.

> >> What kind of right wing, conservative, business oriented person would
> >> advocate such a behavior?
>
> > My father for one, and myself, and lots of people I know. We realize
> > that sometimes the value of what we buy declines, be it stock, houses,
> > etc. Independence and freedom require that we live with our
> > decisions.
>
> Well no. Your independence and freedom may well be crippled by living up
> to poor financial decisions. It is your honor and integrity that benefit.

Cheating can develop a very limiting attitude. I've known several
people who started with what they thought was mild stuff and had their
freedom curtailed big time, in the grey-bar hotel.

> >> You heard the business professors in that
> >> clip. They say that it would be a "sin" to burden themselves unnecessary
> >> by paying more than the market requires for housing.
>
> > I don't think they used the word sin in that regard, and not everyone
> > quoted supports that legalized theft.
>
> You are right. The representative of the Obama Administration clearly
> stated that he thought folks who could live up to their obligations should.

Which person on that video was a representative of the Obama
administration? Not a low-level civil servant but an actual
administration representative.

...

> You are truly misinformed as to what the political terms mean. I suggest
> that you study up. A recent US history course will be useful.

I'm well aware of what the statists claim it means. That's
advertising stuff, a word picked for its value as a marketing tool
rather than its accuracy. Do you also believe it when other
advertisers call something "new and improved" (when the changes are
mostly style)?

> A review
> of Teddy Roosevelt political career as a start. Progressive's want to
> use the power of government to help achieve social justice.

How is social justice different from regular justice? And how is that
different from the people before the revolution who thought that the
king was God's anointed and there to impose justice?

hal lillywhite

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 12:24:18 PM7/24/11

to

On Jul 23, 11:36 pm, Mike <M...@usa.DESPAM.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:29:05 -0700 (PDT), hal lillywhite
>

No, it's theft. If you invest $300,000 in stocks and the price
declines do you have a right to cheat to get the money back? If not,
how is that different from a loss on a house.

SMITH29

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 12:44:10 PM7/24/11

to

On 7/23/2011 10:07 PM, Bill Shatzer wrote:

xxxx
I don't believe you.

Bluesfan2U

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Jul 24, 2011, 1:25:06 PM7/24/11

to

Hitler was a commie and Stalin was a Democrat (at least you seem to
think so).

hal lillywhite

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 1:20:54 PM7/24/11

to

On Jul 23, 4:11 pm, Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote:
> Algonquin J. Calhoon wrote:
> > News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
> > frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
> > stuff from the government.
>
> Yeh, right!
>
> Ya' hear that one on Limbaugh - right after he accused the heat index as
> being a government plot to support global warming?

One thing missing in this discussion is why nobody tried to stop the
guy. Yeah, that takes courage and it is a risk, but it is also a risk
to run or hide. The students who took down Kip Kinkle might have been
shot for their trouble, but they might also have been shot running or
hiding. However, had they not taken Kinkle down it is certain more
students would have been shot.

Too often people depend on others, especially government, to care for
them and fail to take action on their own. cf.

http://hallillywhite.blogspot.com/2009/09/lessons-of-flight-93.html

The welfare state may not have directly caused the Norway shootings,
but it is highly probable that it helped establish a mind-set of not
taking individual action in such situations.

SMITH29

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 2:04:07 PM7/24/11

to

On 7/23/2011 10:24 PM, Moder@tor wrote:

xxxx
Now who would pay that jerk to post fiction in UseNet?
Makes no sense.

SMITH29

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 2:16:30 PM7/24/11

to

xxxx
A lack of proper education is the probable reason for no one having the
presence of mind to be prepared for that incident when someone goes off
the deep end. Surely adults were present.....
Norway has liberal gun laws and their is no reason someone wasn't prepared.
This shooting is in the same order as our college campus shootings where
nobody is armed but ours is laws that prevent weapons ( legally ).
That has changed, thankfully.

No matter where you are, your safety is your responsibility.

29

Sid9

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Jul 24, 2011, 2:36:13 PM7/24/11

to

"ØbaMaØ Tse Dung" <0bama0....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:437dad61-cc29-41d8...@w24g2000yqw.googlegroups.com...

He really loved his guns!

Algonquin J. Calhoon

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 7:27:11 PM7/24/11

to

Socialist Democrat, like you and Marxist, like you.

Bill Shatzer

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Jul 24, 2011, 7:27:43 PM7/24/11

to

Mike wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:29:05 -0700 (PDT), hal lillywhite
> <hlil...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"Don't punish me teacher, Johnny did it too." That is the worst
>>excuse in the book and when I tried it as a kid my father excoriated
>>me for not thinking independently. You remain a thief regardless of
>>how much company you have in that category.
>>
>>If you still can you should go to the bank, catch up on payments, and
>>live up to your agreement.
>
>
>
> You are out of your gourd! If you own a house that was mortgaged for
> $300k and it is now worth $150k defaulting on the debt is the best thing
> you can do for your financial future.

Well, except for the fact that your credit rating is all shot to hell
for the next seven years. And the fact that the bank can come after you
for the difference between what you owed and whatever the bank can sell
it for at a foreclosure sale.

> 25 years from now that house might
> be worth $200k. The days of home values shooting up are past us now so if
> the value of your home drops the best business decision would be to
> default on the debt and/or file for bankruptcy protection.

Bankruptcy doesn't do anything good for your credit rating either. And,
of course if you own anything apart from the mortgaged real estate, that
gets thrown in the bankruptcy pot as well. Good bye Audi, good bye bank
accounts, so long coin collection, adios Rolex and pinkie ring.

peace and justice,

Algonquin J. Calhoon

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 7:28:36 PM7/24/11

to

First it had to be ACORN, and now it is probably the DNC or Arabs.
He discussed it once in a newsgroup. He shopped around, for the leftists
who would pay.

Bill Shatzer

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Jul 24, 2011, 7:56:27 PM7/24/11

to

SMITH29 wrote:

> I don't believe you.

And I don't care.

peace and justice,

Bill Shatzer

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 8:06:07 PM7/24/11

to

hal lillywhite wrote:

> On Jul 23, 4:11 pm, Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote:
>
>>Algonquin J. Calhoon wrote:
>>
>>>News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
>>>frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
>>>stuff from the government.
>>
>>Yeh, right!
>>
>>Ya' hear that one on Limbaugh - right after he accused the heat index as
>>being a government plot to support global warming?

> One thing missing in this discussion is why nobody tried to stop the
> guy. Yeah, that takes courage and it is a risk, but it is also a risk
> to run or hide. The students who took down Kip Kinkle might have been
> shot for their trouble, but they might also have been shot running or
> hiding. However, had they not taken Kinkle down it is certain more
> students would have been shot.

Ah, the courage of those safely out of range.

But how do you know "nobody tried to stop the guy". Likely any attempted
stoppers are among the bullet riddled corpses.

unread,

Jul 24, 2011, 10:57:41 PM7/24/11

to

On Jul 24, 4:27 pm, Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote:

> Mike wrote:
live up to your agreement.
>
> > You are out of your gourd! If you own a house that was mortgaged for
> > $300k and it is now worth $150k defaulting on the debt is the best thing
> > you can do for your financial future.
>
> Well, except for the fact that your credit rating is all shot to hell
> for the next seven years. And the fact that the bank can come after you
> for the difference between what you owed and whatever the bank can sell
> it for at a foreclosure sale.

Sadly if "bluesfan" is correct that is not the case in Arizona and a
few other states. Apparently those states don't allow the bank to go
after anything but the house for mortgage default. I disagree with
such a law but that seems to be the way it is. If I were in charge of
mortgage lending in fact I'd be reluctant to write mortgages in those
states.

SMITH29

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Jul 25, 2011, 12:01:58 AM7/25/11

to

xxxx
ROTRLMAO!!!!!!

Bill Shatzer

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Jul 25, 2011, 12:15:00 AM7/25/11

to

OTOH, it might make lenders more careful about writing risky mortgages
such as sub-prime loans and zero down mortgages. Which wouldn't
necessarily be a bad thing.

Returning to the old "20% down" standard would alieviate a lot of the
risk to the lender.

peace and justice,

Bill Shatzer

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 1:05:14 AM7/25/11

to

hal lillywhite wrote:

> On Jul 24, 5:06 pm, Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote:

>>>One thing missing in this discussion is why nobody tried to stop the
>>>guy. Yeah, that takes courage and it is a risk, but it is also a risk
>>>to run or hide. The students who took down Kip Kinkle might have been
>>>shot for their trouble, but they might also have been shot running or
>>>hiding. However, had they not taken Kinkle down it is certain more
>>>students would have been shot.

>>Ah, the courage of those safely out of range.

> Would I take action against a shooter in such a case? I believe I
> would but of course you don't know till you're in that situation.
> However that is beside the point. The point is that there is risk
> either way and if you take the risk of going after the shooter (beta
> or type two risk in technical terms), you are likely to stop more
> carnage.

You are likely to stop a number of 7.62mm bullets in your soft pink body
and accomplish nothing beyond ensuring your immediate demise.

'Cording to reports, this guy had (at least) an AK-47 (apparently a
select fire model procured in the Czech Republic) and a 9mm Glock. Bare
handedly taking on a fellow with a fully automatic rifle is heroic but
suicidal.

Your (and everybody's) best chance is to emulate Sir Robin and "run
away, run away."

It is a fact that the Thurston High heroes saved lives and
> that the Virginia Tech shooter was able to continue with nobody
> stopping him and thus to kill many more people than died at Thurston.

Kinkle had a Ruger 10/22 .22 semiautomatic rifle with a ten round
magazine and was jumped while he was attempting to reload.

This right wing Christian fundamentalist had a fully automatic 7.62mm AK
with 20 or 30 round magazines.

They are hardly similar situations.

>>But how do you know "nobody tried to stop the guy". Likely any attempted
>>stoppers are among the bullet riddled corpses.

> It's possible someone did but that appears unlikely. This has been
> covered to the nth degree with no report of that happening.

One presumes any witnesses are likewise dead. Or at least hospitalized
and not currently talking to the press.

>>>Too often people depend on others, especially government, to care for
>>>them and fail to take action on their own. cf.
>>>http://hallillywhite.blogspot.com/2009/09/lessons-of-flight-93.html
>>>The welfare state may not have directly caused the Norway shootings,
>>>but it is highly probable that it helped establish a mind-set of not
>>>taking individual action in such situations.

>>Only person that caused the shootings was the right-wing fundamentalist.

> Only one person caused them, true. However a few potential victims
> turning on the shooter would almost certainly have reduced the
> damage. That was my point.

I don't see how. No sort of organized resistance seems likely or even
possible and attempting to jump a fellow with an automatic AK single
handedly (or even by twos or threes) seems unlikely to accomplish
anything beyond enssuring that the potential jumpers get shot RFN rather
potentially getting shot later.

>>You might notice that unarmed civilians are being routinely shot down
>>(and raped) in Darfur. I doubt those folks have any mind set of having
>>the government take care of them.

> Surely you can see the difference between fighting an army or militia
> and fighting one or two nut cases.

Yeah, the Darfurians have some idea the bad guys might be coming and can
organize and plan some sort of resistance. Maybe even procure weapons -
if not AKs then machetes or baseball bats or something. Other than that,
the chances of unarmed and untrained civilians taking on a fellow with a
full automatic weapon seem approximately equal.

peace and justice,

slide trombone

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 1:41:00 AM7/25/11

to

and eliminate the idiotic Freddie/Fannie

Algonquin J. Calhoon

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Jul 25, 2011, 1:41:56 AM7/25/11

to

I think you are McAfee, the steaming pile of stinking dog shit. Oh, and
a Marxist.

slide trombone

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 1:45:37 AM7/25/11

to

On Jul 23, 4:11 pm, Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote:
> Algonquin J. Calhoon wrote:
> > News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
> > frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
> > stuff from the government.
>
> Yeh, right!
>
> Ya' hear that one on Limbaugh - right after he accused the heat index as
> being a government plot to support global warming?
>

So you listen to Limbaugh?

heat indexes are a retarded way to report the temperature, unlike the
temp/humidity, it is purely subjective.

slide trombone

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 1:46:27 AM7/25/11

to

On Jul 23, 10:07 pm, Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote:
> SMITH29 wrote:

And the exact same thing can be said if you flee. As I say, there are
risks either way.

> 'Cording to reports, this guy had (at least) an AK-47 (apparently a
> select fire model procured in the Czech Republic) and a 9mm Glock. Bare
> handedly taking on a fellow with a fully automatic rifle is heroic but
> suicidal.

Dangerous yes. Suicidal, I don't think so. You've been in combat,
how accurately do even trained solders aim in stressful situations?
How is that affected by a surprise factor as when someone you thought
would run instead charges you? How about if he charges in a zig-zag
manner (while most people fleeing are going to run in straight lines)?

> Your (and everybody's) best chance is to emulate Sir Robin and "run
> away, run away."

Open to question.

> It is a fact that the Thurston High heroes saved lives and
>
> > that the Virginia Tech shooter was able to continue with nobody
> > stopping him and thus to kill many more people than died at Thurston.
>
> Kinkle had a Ruger 10/22 .22 semiautomatic rifle with a ten round
> magazine and was jumped while he was attempting to reload.

And a Glock. And a .22 cal pistol.

> This right wing Christian fundamentalist had a fully automatic 7.62mm AK
> with 20 or 30 round magazines.
>
> They are hardly similar situations.

Some similarities, some differences. Still, he would have to change
magazines. Plus the surprise of someone charging him would likely
throw his aim off.

> >>But how do you know "nobody tried to stop the guy". Likely any attempted
> >>stoppers are among the bullet riddled corpses.
> > It's possible someone did but that appears unlikely. This has been
> > covered to the nth degree with no report of that happening.
>
> One presumes any witnesses are likewise dead. Or at least hospitalized
> and not currently talking to the press.

"Was he wounded before or behind?" (From some Shakespheare play I
believe) By examining wounds and location of victims police should be
able to easily determine if people were fleeing or charging.

> >>>Too often people depend on others, especially government, to care for
> >>>them and fail to take action on their own. cf.
> >>>http://hallillywhite.blogspot.com/2009/09/lessons-of-flight-93.html
> >>>The welfare state may not have directly caused the Norway shootings,
> >>>but it is highly probable that it helped establish a mind-set of not
> >>>taking individual action in such situations.
> >>Only person that caused the shootings was the right-wing fundamentalist.
> > Only one person caused them, true. However a few potential victims
> > turning on the shooter would almost certainly have reduced the
> > damage. That was my point.
>
> I don't see how. No sort of organized resistance seems likely or even
> possible and attempting to jump a fellow with an automatic AK single
> handedly (or even by twos or threes) seems unlikely to accomplish
> anything beyond enssuring that the potential jumpers get shot RFN rather
> potentially getting shot later.

We have to disagree on that.

> >>You might notice that unarmed civilians are being routinely shot down
> >>(and raped) in Darfur. I doubt those folks have any mind set of having
> >>the government take care of them.
> > Surely you can see the difference between fighting an army or militia
> > and fighting one or two nut cases.
>
> Yeah, the Darfurians have some idea the bad guys might be coming and can
> organize and plan some sort of resistance. Maybe even procure weapons -
> if not AKs then machetes or baseball bats or something. Other than that,
> the chances of unarmed and untrained civilians taking on a fellow with a
> full automatic weapon seem approximately equal.

But the situation is entirely different. A single shooter vs an
organized group of bad guys makes a big difference.

Bluesfan2U

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 11:39:40 AM7/25/11

to

On 7/24/2011 9:22 AM, hal lillywhite wrote:
> On Jul 23, 3:15 pm, Bluesfan2U<bluesfa...@fun.ogr> wrote:
>> On 7/23/2011 2:11 PM, hal lillywhite wrote:

>>
>>> On Jul 23, 1:48 pm, Bluesfan2U<bluesfa...@fun.ogr> wrote:
>>
>>>>> "Don't punish me teacher, Johnny did it too." That is the worst
>>>>> excuse in the book and when I tried it as a kid my father excoriated
>>>>> me for not thinking independently. You remain a thief regardless of
>>>>> how much company you have in that category.
>>
>>>>> If you still can you should go to the bank, catch up on payments, and

>>>>> live up to your agreement.
>>

>>>> Keep up that kind of talk and folks here will accuse you of being a
>>>> progressive Democrat.
>>
>>> Unlikely but they may accuse me of standing for integrity.
>>
>> Isn't that what I said? :-)
>
> Hah! If you think leftists stand for integrity you invited to look up
> something on David Wu, or Barney Frank, or several "Freezer Cash"
> Jefferson etc.

Has Barney Frank ever presented himself as anything other than Barney
Frank? Do you know what "integrity" means? It means being honest in your
presentation of yourself and ideas. Even a theft can have integrity so
long as he pretends to be nothing but a thief. Most progressives have
always practiced integrity. For example, when a progressive tells you he
is interested in preserving Social Security, you can be sure that he is
interested in preserving Social Security. When a conservative tell you
that he really means he is interested in destroying it, or altering it
to where it does not serve its intended purpose.

>
>>>> What kind of right wing, conservative, business oriented person would
>>>> advocate such a behavior?
>>
>>> My father for one, and myself, and lots of people I know. We realize
>>> that sometimes the value of what we buy declines, be it stock, houses,
>>> etc. Independence and freedom require that we live with our
>>> decisions.
>>
>> Well no. Your independence and freedom may well be crippled by living up
>> to poor financial decisions. It is your honor and integrity that benefit.
>
> Cheating can develop a very limiting attitude. I've known several
> people who started with what they thought was mild stuff and had their
> freedom curtailed big time, in the grey-bar hotel.

I don't run in such circles, but I have known several people over the
decades that have lost their financial freedom in one recession or
another. I don't really blame them for poor decisions. They were just
caught up in the times.

>
>>>> You heard the business professors in that
>>>> clip. They say that it would be a "sin" to burden themselves unnecessary
>>>> by paying more than the market requires for housing.
>>
>>> I don't think they used the word sin in that regard, and not everyone
>>> quoted supports that legalized theft.
>>
>> You are right. The representative of the Obama Administration clearly
>> stated that he thought folks who could live up to their obligations should.
>
> Which person on that video was a representative of the Obama
> administration? Not a low-level civil servant but an actual
> administration representative.

You really do not pay attention.

Commissioner of the Federal Housing Administration. The head of the FHA
is a major appointee in the administration.

>
> ...
>
>
>> You are truly misinformed as to what the political terms mean. I suggest
>> that you study up. A recent US history course will be useful.
>
> I'm well aware of what the statists claim it means. That's
> advertising stuff, a word picked for its value as a marketing tool
> rather than its accuracy. Do you also believe it when other
> advertisers call something "new and improved" (when the changes are
> mostly style)?

Actually it is a political science term. An academic term Like "right"
and "left" and "totalitarian" and "oligarchy" and "democracy" etc. that
describes a movement intended to use the power of government to help
achieve social justice. It is a standard term as as such you are not
welcome to apply your own made p definitions to it. Been around for over
a hundred years.

>
>> A review
>> of Teddy Roosevelt political career as a start. Progressive's want to
>> use the power of government to help achieve social justice.
>
> How is social justice different from regular justice? And how is that
> different from the people before the revolution who thought that the
> king was God's anointed and there to impose justice?

Understanding "social justice" in its totality is a big task. Wikipedia
does a pretty good job of briefly answering your questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice

If you read the article you will see that all your questions are
answered, and much better than I could with just a few words. I'll just
point out that the justice provided under the Divine Right of Kings
wasn't much appreciated by the peasantry.

Bluesfan2U

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 11:46:54 AM7/25/11

to

Another person who believes that the Peoples Democratic Republic of
Korea is a democracy. What was "left wing" about Pol Pots dictatorship
in Cambodia? List his political power expanding traits here:

Bill Shatzer

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 1:01:31 PM7/25/11

to

slide trombone wrote:
> On Jul 23, 4:11 pm, Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote:
>
>>Algonquin J. Calhoon wrote:
>>
>>>News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
>>>frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
>>>stuff from the government.
>>
>>Yeh, right!
>>
>>Ya' hear that one on Limbaugh - right after he accused the heat index as
>>being a government plot to support global warming?

> So you listen to Limbaugh?

No - I watch the Jon Stewart, and occasionally Colbert. They frequently
have outakes from limbaugh.

> heat indexes are a retarded way to report the temperature, unlike the
> temp/humidity, it is purely subjective.

I suppose wind chill is equally subjective?

Heh!

Incidentally, speaking of the Rushster:

http://www.businessinsider.com/rush-limbaugh-hannity-imus-radio-ratings-2011-5

Apparently folks are tiring of his dreck.

peace and justice,

Bill Shatzer

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 1:03:23 PM7/25/11

to

slide trombone wrote:
> On Jul 23, 4:11 pm, Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote:
>
>>Algonquin J. Calhoon wrote:
>>
>>>News reports have that the shooter is a liberal homosexual who is
>>>frustrated over taxes being too low, and he isn't getting enough free
>>>stuff from the government.
>>
>>Yeh, right!
>>
>>Ya' hear that one on Limbaugh - right after he accused the heat index as
>>being a government plot to support global warming?

> So you listen to Limbaugh?

No - I watch the Jon Stewart, and occasionally Colbert. They frequently
have outakes from limbaugh.

> heat indexes are a retarded way to report the temperature, unlike the

> temp/humidity, it is purely subjective.

I suppose wind chill is equally subjective?

Bill Shatzer

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 1:06:57 PM7/25/11

to

slide trombone wrote:

> In other words, you let other manipulate you.

In other words, you're illiterate in the English language.

peace and justice,

Bill Shatzer

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 2:30:25 PM7/25/11

to

hal lillywhite wrote:

> On Jul 24, 10:05 pm, Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote:

>>>Would I take action against a shooter in such a case? I believe I
>>>would but of course you don't know till you're in that situation.
>>>However that is beside the point. The point is that there is risk
>>>either way and if you take the risk of going after the shooter (beta
>>>or type two risk in technical terms), you are likely to stop more
>>>carnage.

>>You are likely to stop a number of 7.62mm bullets in your soft pink body
>>and accomplish nothing beyond ensuring your immediate demise.

> And the exact same thing can be said if you flee. As I say, there are
> risks either way.

Fleeing, however, increases the survival odds.

>>'Cording to reports, this guy had (at least) an AK-47 (apparently a
>>select fire model procured in the Czech Republic) and a 9mm Glock. Bare
>>handedly taking on a fellow with a fully automatic rifle is heroic but
>>suicidal.

> Dangerous yes. Suicidal, I don't think so.

The next best thing to suicidal then.

> You've been in combat,
> how accurately do even trained solders aim in stressful situations?

We ain't talking 'bout 300 meter head shots. We're talking about full
automatic weapons at close range. And you ARE going to be at close range
if you're attempting to jump the gunman.

> How is that affected by a surprise factor as when someone you thought
> would run instead charges you? How about if he charges in a zig-zag
> manner (while most people fleeing are going to run in straight lines)?

Your best chance is to give the gunman a 75 yard shot, not a 10 yard one

>>Your (and everybody's) best chance is to emulate Sir Robin and "run
>>away, run away."

> Open to question.

Not a bit.

>>It is a fact that the Thurston High heroes saved lives and

>>>that the Virginia Tech shooter was able to continue with nobody
>>>stopping him and thus to kill many more people than died at Thurston.

>>Kinkle had a Ruger 10/22 .22 semiautomatic rifle with a ten round
>>magazine and was jumped while he was attempting to reload.

> And a Glock. And a .22 cal pistol.

>>This right wing Christian fundamentalist had a fully automatic 7.62mm AK
>>with 20 or 30 round magazines.

>>They are hardly similar situations.

> Some similarities, some differences. Still, he would have to change
> magazines.

For rather obvious reasons, the AK is designed to switch magazines
considerably faster than a 10/22. My 10/22 has an after-market quick
magazine release mechanism but I doubt Kinkle's did. Without it,
switching magazines is a more time consuming exercise.

And, of course, Kinkle was a skinny 5'6" fifteen-year old. Anders
Behring Breivik was a six foot, moderately husky, 32-year old adult.

> Plus the surprise of someone charging him would likely
> throw his aim off.

"OK men, when I say go, you all drop your weapons and charge that
machine gun. The surprise of unarmed folks charging will likely throw
off his aim."

Don't think they teach that approach at NCO school.

>>>>But how do you know "nobody tried to stop the guy". Likely any attempted
>>>>stoppers are among the bullet riddled corpses.

>>>It's possible someone did but that appears unlikely. This has been
>>>covered to the nth degree with no report of that happening.

>>One presumes any witnesses are likewise dead. Or at least hospitalized
>>and not currently talking to the press.

> "Was he wounded before or behind?" (From some Shakespheare play I
> believe) By examining wounds and location of victims police should be
> able to easily determine if people were fleeing or charging.

I rather think they're not presently much concerned with identifying
entrance and exit wounds.

Not that that is all that easy to do, in any event.

And of course, if they were following your recommended tactic of zigging
and zagging....

-snip-

>>>Only one person caused them, true. However a few potential victims
>>>turning on the shooter would almost certainly have reduced the
>>>damage. That was my point.

>>I don't see how. No sort of organized resistance seems likely or even
>>possible and attempting to jump a fellow with an automatic AK single
>>handedly (or even by twos or threes) seems unlikely to accomplish
>>anything beyond enssuring that the potential jumpers get shot RFN rather
>>potentially getting shot later.

> We have to disagree on that.

I know charging automatic weapons barehanded is not a recipe for a long
and peaceful life expectancy.

Even soldiers don't to it that way. And they have covering fire.

>>>>You might notice that unarmed civilians are being routinely shot down
>>>>(and raped) in Darfur. I doubt those folks have any mind set of having
>>>>the government take care of them.

>>>Surely you can see the difference between fighting an army or militia
>>>and fighting one or two nut cases.

>>Yeah, the Darfurians have some idea the bad guys might be coming and can
>>organize and plan some sort of resistance. Maybe even procure weapons -
>>if not AKs then machetes or baseball bats or something. Other than that,
>>the chances of unarmed and untrained civilians taking on a fellow with a
>>full automatic weapon seem approximately equal.

> But the situation is entirely different. A single shooter vs an
> organized group of bad guys makes a big difference.

The results are rather the same - unless you can organize more jumpers
than the bad guy has bullets.

Algonquin J. Calhoon

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 2:37:18 PM7/25/11

to

The first indication of a lack of integrity is to call the leftists
"Progessives" They think baby killing is progressive. They think giving
third world thieves (who admit being thieves) citizenship is
progressive. They think Communism is progressive.
Mikey you are so full of shit you stink.

>
>
>>
>>> A review
>>> of Teddy Roosevelt political career as a start. Progressive's want to
>>> use the power of government to help achieve social justice.
>>
>> How is social justice different from regular justice? And how is that
>> different from the people before the revolution who thought that the
>> king was God's anointed and there to impose justice?
>
> Understanding "social justice" in its totality is a big task. Wikipedia
> does a pretty good job of briefly answering your questions.

Wikipedia does a good job of being leftist bullshit, and helping kids
flunk college courses.

>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice
>
> If you read the article you will see that all your questions are
> answered, and much better than I could with just a few words. I'll just
> point out that the justice provided under the Divine Right of Kings
> wasn't much appreciated by the peasantry.

But you want Obama to be worshiped and have divine rights. you asshole.

Algonquin J. Calhoon

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 2:39:04 PM7/25/11

to

Shitzer is manipulated by a night show comedian. Disgusting.

Bluesfan2U

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 3:16:15 PM7/25/11

to

You are delusional, of course. If it weren't impolite, I'd laugh at you.
You and Breivik are two of a kind except he is competent.

hal lillywhite

unread,

Jul 25, 2011, 6:13:05 PM7/25/11

to

On Jul 25, 8:39 am, Bluesfan2U <bluesfa...@fun.ogr> wrote:

> > Hah! If you think leftists stand for integrity you invited to look up
> > something on David Wu, or Barney Frank, or several "Freezer Cash"
> > Jefferson etc.
>
> Has Barney Frank ever presented himself as anything other than Barney
> Frank? Do you know what "integrity" means? It means being honest in your
> presentation of yourself and ideas. Even a theft can have integrity so
> long as he pretends to be nothing but a thief. Most progressives have
> always practiced integrity. For example, whe

Balderdash! A thief lacks integrity since he takes what does not
belong to him. You have a strange definition of integrity.
...

> >> You are truly misinformed as to what the political terms mean. I suggest
> >> that you study up. A recent US history course will be useful.
>
> > I'm well aware of what the statists claim it means. That's
> > advertising stuff, a word picked for its value as a marketing tool
> > rather than its accuracy. Do you also believe it when other
> > advertisers call something "new and improved" (when the changes are
> > mostly style)?
>
> Actually it is a political science term.

In other words, a term designed to mislead.

> An academic term Like "right"
> and "left" and "totalitarian" and "oligarchy" and "democracy" etc. that
> describes a movement intended to use the power of government to help
> achieve social justice. It is a standard term as as such you are not
> welcome to apply your own made p definitions to it. Been around for over
> a hundred years.

Yeah, been around since TR used it to justify his statism. It is
still regressive, wanting to go back to powerful governments.
Advertising words are mostly designed to mislead and this is no
exception.

> >> A review
> >> of Teddy Roosevelt political career as a start. Progressive's want to
> >> use the power of government to help achieve social justice.
>
> > How is social justice different from regular justice? And how is that
> > different from the people before the revolution who thought that the
> > king was God's anointed and there to impose justice?
>
> Understanding "social justice" in its totality is a big task. Wikipedia
> does a pretty good job of briefly answering your questions.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice

Yeah you are falling for the misleading term. It is used to cloak
government power to re-distribute wealth as the self-anointed think it
should be distributed. Another statist idea.

> If you read the article you will see that all your questions are
> answered, and much better than I could with just a few words. I'll just
> point out that the justice provided under the Divine Right of Kings
> wasn't much appreciated by the peasantry.

How do you know? Were you there? The point is that the king was
supposed to be God's anointed to do what should be done, just like
statists today think they are the anointed to take from one group and
give to another.