Coal mine village

[Elaine M.]

I'm trying to find out information on an old coal mine village (which
is no longer there), called "Ben Watt" (not sure exactly how it's
spelled), that was near Ayrshire, Scotland. This would have been
around the time of 1923.

[Tookie Bunten]

It just outside Dalmellington. It's next to the opencast. There are a
few ruins & a war memorial left. Hope that helps.

Thanks
Tookie

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[Noreen]

Elaine,

I have a small book called The 'Hill' Its People and Its Pits, inside the
front cover is a map of The Ironstone Pits and Railways on the
Bowhill-Burnfoothill-Benwhat Plateau. The map was drawn for the book called
The Dalmellington Iron Co. Its Engines and Men written by David L Smith.
I hope this gets you started.

Noreen Burnie Finch

[Sandra Ancestry]

I am sitting now adding my family info to family tree maker - they lived in village of benquhat, dalmellington. There is no on this web age
Www.geograph.org.uk

Sandra

Sent from my iPad

[Sandra Ancestry]

I am just entering info on my great grandmother who was Margaret McCurdie and I just noticed the original post came from Elaine McCurdie. I wonder if it's the same family..

Sandra

Sent from my iPad

On 8 Feb 2012, at 21:51, Tookie Bunten <davidtoo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Tookie Bunten]

Elaine,

You'll find Benwhat (Benquat in the modern OS Map) here 55.357087,-4.424443 on google maps. Looks like the village is either earlier than 1843 and disappeared or some time after as on the OS Six Inch Survey of Scotland 1843 - 1882 there is only a corft by that name.

Thanks

Tookie

On 9 February 2012 08:52, Noreen <nor...@feoffee.co.uk> wrote:

Elaine,

I have a small book  called The 'Hill' Its People and Its Pits, inside the front cover is a map of The Ironstone Pits and Railways on the Bowhill-Burnfoothill-Benwhat Plateau. The map was drawn for the book called The Dalmellington Iron Co. Its Engines and Men written by David L Smith.
I hope this gets you started.

Noreen Burnie Finch


----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine M." <elaine....@gmail.com>

To: "Ayrshire History" <ayrshirehistory@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 12:40 AM
Subject: [Ayrshire History] Coal mine village

I'm trying to find out information on an old coal mine village (which
is no longer there), called "Ben Watt" (not sure exactly how it's
spelled), that was near Ayrshire, Scotland.  This would have been
around the time of 1923.

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[scotjohn]

Aye Elaine, there is much history there - the people & all the villages that sat on top of the hill. They must have been a tough lot, they & houses grew around the coal/ironstone/fireclay mines that served the Baird & Dalmellington Iron works @ Waterside. This was served by a huge steam train network that came fro all points of the compass. The people of Benquat & other 3 villages were unique in the system as there was NO road onto the plateau. This was served by a huge "direct rope' incline from the valley floor of the River Doon [Burns fame] up the incline onto the hilltops [plateau]. From there a network of steam engines/railways took supplies into the people & mines with the empty wagons filled bringing the product out - some railways down the streets of the miners "rows" of houses. Later a road was connected to the main village of PATNA [India ties to local owner], the road is still there as the ruins of the village[s] & old school. The peoples moved out in the 50's to newer houses & mines. As said the local villages printed books on the locality & the 1 mentioned is outstanding with pictures mentioning many people & stories though it leans towards engines, dont let that put you of. Refer to websites of Dalmellington, Waterside, Pollnessan, Patna, Drongan!

Regards, john 

On Thursday, February 9, 2012 8:10:22 PM UTC+11, Tookie Bunten wrote:

Elaine,

You'll find Benwhat (Benquat in the modern OS Map) here 55.357087,-4.424443 on google maps. Looks like the village is either earlier than 1843 and disappeared or some time after as on the OS Six Inch Survey of Scotland 1843 - 1882 there is only a corft by that name.

Thanks

Tookie

On 9 February 2012 08:52, Noreen <nor...@feoffee.co.uk> wrote:

Elaine,

I have a small book  called The 'Hill' Its People and Its Pits, inside the front cover is a map of The Ironstone Pits and Railways on the Bowhill-Burnfoothill-Benwhat Plateau. The map was drawn for the book called The Dalmellington Iron Co. Its Engines and Men written by David L Smith.
I hope this gets you started.

Noreen Burnie Finch


----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine M." <elaine....@gmail.com>

To: "Ayrshire History" <ayrshir...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 12:40 AM
Subject: [Ayrshire History] Coal mine village

I'm trying to find out information on an old coal mine village (which
is no longer there), called "Ben Watt" (not sure exactly how it's
spelled), that was near Ayrshire, Scotland.  This would have been
around the time of 1923.

--
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[Campbell Thomas]

Adding to the mix, was this area not also inhabited with Spanish immigrants who came to work in the industries? To this day it is not uncommon to find people with Spanish surnames in this part of Ayrshire.

Campbell Thomas

---

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 19:24:20 -0800
From: scotj...@hotmail.com
To: ayrshir...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Ayrshire History] Coal mine village

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[scotjohn]

Aye Campbell, thanks for the contact – Yes your spot on, the Iron ore industrialists brought them over – there expertise used to work the iron mines & furnaces, suppose it was the lead into [before/after] the start of cheap Spanish imports of iron ore – thus the demise of our iron mining industry, then, like today certain industrialists never miss a trick on penny pinching?

Names like Carbello, Cano, Adonnis come to mind?  

 

Regards john cross

 

PS. Thinking – The Spanish civil war also brought some refugees, also I remember some as onion sellers around the doors as well!

Hear in Australia [NSW] we also have old workings/village names frae’ hame’, some times whole villages migrated to set up work the new shale & coal mines. Shale workers from Pumpherson in the Lothian’s to Joadja mines, Coal miners to places called Maitland, Cessnock, Heatherbrae, adjacent are Pattereson, Lorne, Aberdeen, Scone in the Hunter Valley just in from Newcastle – coal/wine region!   

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[Francisco Haro]

Hola !  ....

 

Try and find a copy of Donald L.Reid's books ..... "Yesterday's Patna & The Lost Villages of Doon Valley" .... 2005.  ...book was limited to 900 copies so might be sold  out  ..... I wish I'd bought a gross !! .....collectors items of the future !!  I've got  No. 519. ......  or "Doon Valley Memories" .... 2002..... also by Donald. limited to 1,000 copies. I've got no. 290. so possibly also be sold out ...

 

They cover all the villages mentioned .... and MORE !!

 

Donald is at 7. Manuel Avenue, Beith, North Ayrshire, Scotland. KA15 1BJ.    and can be contacted on 01505 503801....... or at donaldl...@hotmail.com    ......

 

Saludos,    Francisco Haro.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

[Campbell Thomas]

Thanks, John. When did these guys come over to Ayrshire and does anyone know in what numbers? Did they establish anything lasting to remind them of home or did they assimilate? The shale you mention is back in the news over here, as you've probably heard.

Francisco, good info. Sounds like you may have a possible genetic predisposition to working in the iron ore industry! I've seen your letters in the local press over the years and wondered about the origin of your handle.

Campbell

---

From: Fran...@haro43.freeserve.co.uk
To: ayrshir...@googlegroups.com
CC: donaldl...@hotmail.com

Subject: Re: [Ayrshire History] Coal mine village

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 17:40:24 +0000

[Francisco Haro]

Hi ....

 

Father, Rodrigo Haro was a republican refugee from the Spanish Civil War .. hailed from Turre, Almeria.......... met my Mother, Selina Gardner at a forces dance in Wotton-Under-Edge where she was stationed with the army and my Dad was in No.1. Spanish Coy. Pioneer Corps, at that time stationed at Charfield running a mobile sawmill for the war effort, not far from W-U-E. They settled in Kilwinning after marrying and  when my Dad was demobbed from the Army and allowed to stay on ..... My Mother came from Kilwinning.  I was born at Goldcraigs, then we lived at Pollok Crescent in the Blacklands, where Eglinton Ironworks was and where part of the Ironworks Rows originally passed through. My favourite topic of discussion !!, ..... hence interest in Bairds / Eglinton / D.I.C.  I always believed we have to look after our Heritage to pass on info etc.    I am not into groups or clubs due to being profoundly deaf, and prefer to research alone ..... although any information given is appreciated ....

 

I believe Spaniards were brought over as strike breakers at Eglinton Iron Works but have no knowledge of any Spaniards staying on in Kilwinning ....

 

I'll look out what I've got on this, hopefully soon, and post it ...

 

Kind regards,            Francisco Haro.

[Campbell Thomas]

What an interesting background and sad Franco's legacy continued so long after the war. You're spot on about looking after the heritage. It's mainly thanks to folk like you keeping it alive and in people's mind. Local library staff here are also very helpful, taking one a lot further than Google.

CT

---

From: Fran...@haro43.freeserve.co.uk
To: ayrshir...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Ayrshire History] Coal mine village

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 10:56:03 +0000

[Francisco Haro]

Hi again ...

 

Where is "here" with the local library staff ??

 

Franco's legacy still lives on locally in Spain .... especially in the older generations ....

 

When we visited my Father's family in Spain, the topic was taboo, unless it was discussed behind closed doors etc .... with likewise people who could be trusted .....

 

The Spanish government have acknowledged that the Spanish Civil War was wrong, and children of soldiers and people who fled Spain were offered Spanish citizenship, but not dual nationality.

 

Thanks for your kind comments, however, I don't want to detract from the original objective of the threads ...

 

Saludos,    Francisco Haro..

[Campbell Thomas]

Here for me is East and North Ayrshire libraries. They do their best with what they've got. And Ayr Carnegie's good. Found out last year, out of the blue, my great-great grandfather was the architect!

Yep, I'm in Spain fairly regularly and Franco days aren't far away. Did you hear about the expat Scot who took a hammer to a fascist-related plaque? He's now in bother:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/scot-who-hammered-off-franco-plaque-in-court-1-3233549

Reading Biggles as a boy of about 12 taught me about the Spanish Civil War. And that smoking was "cool".

C

---

From: Fran...@haro43.freeserve.co.uk
To: ayrshir...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Ayrshire History] Coal mine village

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 17:10:53 +0000

[Francisco Haro]

Hello again all ....

 

Just to add a wee bit more on this ...I've found out:

 

William Baird & Company, acquired some mines in Spain, and during the last quarter of the 19th Century, some of the Spanish workforce emigrated to Ayrshire. Although their numbers and distribution is unknown, some arrived at Cumnock where they worked in mines belonging to the Eglinton Iron Co.

 

There was a furnacemen's strike in 1890 -91 with an influx of immigrants from Latvia, Lithuania, Germany, and some of the Eglinton Ironworks furnaces were re-lit by non-union men, among whom were Poles ...

 

This does not of course presume that this was the only incoming of Spaniards or immigrants into Ayrshire from other countries.

 

Saludos,    Francisco Haro.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Campbell Thomas

To: ayrshir...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 9:29 AM

[scotjohn]

Aye Boys thanks for follow up, as you said Spanish iron ore became cheaper [did not know about Baird & D’s Spanish mines] thus control & supply of would be a boon to the “mighty” Baird & Dalmellton. The coal miners strikes of the early twenties & the nature/design of HAVING to keep the furnaces going must have prepared the iron owners hand. In the 1926 - 7 month strike [General Strike], B & D brought in Spaniards to operate the blast furnaces @ Lugar! As the strike/lockout wore on others like the Irish & Poles were brought into to strike break in the furnaces & coal mines. Many families stayed on in/around the Lugar area & villages > Spanish – Gonzalez, Lognez, Fernandez,Carballo & Blanco.

Its great how the wheel turns – in my early years in the Scots miners union, some of the executive members [who were extreme left wing], had went to Spain in the 30’s to fight in the Spanish civil war.

The other thing to note is the sheer brutal grip & power Baird & Dalmellington had over the miners, others & their industrial empire. Many men [and women] told me about their terrible treatment & as well suffer the attitude over many years of that then huge company. They had the power of life & death over their work force, not just @ work even in their own homes [which also belonged to the company.

j