We're now in the period where we're still supporting analog sources like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we're also supporting DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
a) Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
b) Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at the proj and let it do the scaling?
c) Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I'm wondering if there's a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world. We've used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
In our larger rooms, we are starting to use Crestron's DMPS processing switchers. They have analog and digital inputs with digital outputs. In smaller rooms we are installing projectors with both inputs and switching there, waiting to upgrade to the new, smaller DMPS units expected next month.
Ernie Bailey, CTS
Director of Audiovisual Services
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
Voice: 501.686.5556
Mobile: 501.590.9628
Fax: 501.686.8352
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:07 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com
Subject: [av-1] Technical Question
We're now in the period where we're still supporting analog sources like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we're also supporting DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at the proj and let it do the scaling?
3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I'm wondering if there's a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world. We've used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
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> We're now in the period where we're still supporting analog sources > like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we're also supporting DVI-D > and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
> 1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and
> upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the
> projector?
> 2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching
> at the proj and let it do the scaling?
> 3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and
> digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
> I'm wondering if there's a preferred method out there in the AV-1 > world. We've used all three methods, but have had some issues with > scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing > firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, > depending on the method chosen.
> Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
> K.
> Keith D. Mills
> Manager, Classroom Services
> IT--Communications/Media
> University of Calgary
> MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
> Ph. (403)-220-6386 Fax. (403)-282-4497
> E-mail kmi...@ucalgary.ca
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-- Douglas A. Smith, Ph.D., CTS-D
Director, Classroom Support
Illinois State University
Campus Box 6380
Normal, IL 61790-6380
ph 309-438-3685
fax 309-438-3623
Curious, are the new smaller DMPS units coming out next month a direct replacement for the current QM-RMCRX-BA processor/receiver, or are you referring to the DMPS-100 and 200 they are releasing shortly? It would be great if it was something equivalent to the RMCRX as they are ideal for ceiling mounts in small classes,
Cheers,
Hal Dalzell
Senior Technologist
University of New Brunswick
CETL Technical Shop
458-7661
From: <Bailey>, Ernest L <baileyerne...@uams.edu<mailto:baileyerne...@uams.edu>>
Reply-To: "av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>" <av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>>
Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:11 PM
To: "'av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:'av-1@googlegroups.com>'" <av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
In our larger rooms, we are starting to use Crestron’s DMPS processing switchers. They have analog and digital inputs with digital outputs. In smaller rooms we are installing projectors with both inputs and switching there, waiting to upgrade to the new, smaller DMPS units expected next month.
Ernie Bailey, CTS
Director of Audiovisual Services
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
Voice: 501.686.5556
Mobile: 501.590.9628
Fax: 501.686.8352
From: av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com> [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:07 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [av-1] Technical Question
We’re now in the period where we’re still supporting analog sources like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we’re also supporting DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at the proj and let it do the scaling?
3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I’m wondering if there’s a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world. We’ve used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
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I was referring to the 100s and 200s. I would like to see something like the QM-RMCRX-BA with a DM out and then put a DM receiver at the projector.
Ernie Bailey, CTS
Director of Audiovisual Services
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
Voice: 501.686.5556
Mobile: 501.590.9628
Fax: 501.686.8352
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hal Dalzell
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:16 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
Hi Ernie,
Curious, are the new smaller DMPS units coming out next month a direct replacement for the current QM-RMCRX-BA processor/receiver, or are you referring to the DMPS-100 and 200 they are releasing shortly? It would be great if it was something equivalent to the RMCRX as they are ideal for ceiling mounts in small classes,
Cheers,
Hal Dalzell
Senior Technologist
University of New Brunswick
CETL Technical Shop
458-7661
From: <Bailey>, Ernest L <baileyerne...@uams.edu<mailto:baileyerne...@uams.edu>>
Reply-To: "av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>" <av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>>
Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:11 PM
To: "'av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:'av-1@googlegroups.com>'" <av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
In our larger rooms, we are starting to use Crestron's DMPS processing switchers. They have analog and digital inputs with digital outputs. In smaller rooms we are installing projectors with both inputs and switching there, waiting to upgrade to the new, smaller DMPS units expected next month.
Ernie Bailey, CTS
Director of Audiovisual Services
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
Voice: 501.686.5556
Mobile: 501.590.9628
Fax: 501.686.8352
From: av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com> [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:07 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [av-1] Technical Question
We're now in the period where we're still supporting analog sources like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we're also supporting DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at the proj and let it do the scaling?
3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I'm wondering if there's a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world. We've used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
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In the past, we've done our own design and install work, but had a couple of new buildings go up where an outside integrator did the AV design and install. That's our first exposure to Crestron's DM stuff. There are still some bugs being worked out, but we're hoping to have the two big rooms ready to go for the start of classes in September, 2011.
Oh, wait a sec . . . .
So far, not impressed w/ DM, hence the question.
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hal Dalzell
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:16 AM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
Hi Ernie,
Curious, are the new smaller DMPS units coming out next month a direct replacement for the current QM-RMCRX-BA processor/receiver, or are you referring to the DMPS-100 and 200 they are releasing shortly? It would be great if it was something equivalent to the RMCRX as they are ideal for ceiling mounts in small classes,
Cheers,
Hal Dalzell
Senior Technologist
University of New Brunswick
CETL Technical Shop
458-7661
From: <Bailey>, Ernest L <baileyerne...@uams.edu<mailto:baileyerne...@uams.edu>>
Reply-To: "av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>" <av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>>
Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:11 PM
To: "'av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:'av-1@googlegroups.com>'" <av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
In our larger rooms, we are starting to use Crestron's DMPS processing switchers. They have analog and digital inputs with digital outputs. In smaller rooms we are installing projectors with both inputs and switching there, waiting to upgrade to the new, smaller DMPS units expected next month.
Ernie Bailey, CTS
Director of Audiovisual Services
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
Voice: 501.686.5556
Mobile: 501.590.9628
Fax: 501.686.8352
From: av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com> [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:07 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [av-1] Technical Question
We're now in the period where we're still supporting analog sources like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we're also supporting DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at the proj and let it do the scaling?
3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I'm wondering if there's a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world. We've used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
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We are starting to do 90 rooms, conversion to digital, with the Extron MPS-409 using HDMI for digital out to the projector & standard analog that is already in place. Tried a few 608's but do not really need the much power and the 409 is about $1154 compared to the 608 w/amp for $2800 or without amp for $2400
Carl J. Schweibinz, CTS
HCC, Academic Tech. Mgr.
1602 N. 15th St. (Rm-213)
Tampa, FL 33605
Office: (813) 253-7768
Cell: (813) 463-3513
[Description: CTS-General_Logo-FIN]
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 1:07 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com
Subject: [av-1] Technical Question
We're now in the period where we're still supporting analog sources like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we're also supporting DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at the proj and let it do the scaling?
3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I'm wondering if there's a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world. We've used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
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Due to Florida's very broad public records law, most written communications to
or from College employees regarding College business are public records,
available to the public and media upon request. Therefore, this email
communication may be subject to public disclosure.
Well, here we are currently retro-fitting our Crestron quick rooms (which are built around a ceiling-mounted QM-RMCRX-BA), to now handle HDMI as well. Our solution was to separately run the HDMI signal over a CAT5e twisted pair from a transmitter box, then plug the output of the receiver into the projector's HDMI input. We then let the projector do the switching through the Crestron programming.
The only draw-back is that to hear the audio (not through the projectors speakers which sound awful, but through the room's ceiling mounted speakers) we will have to run the HDMI signal through an audio extractor, then route that audio (along with the audio out of the QM-RMCRX-BA) through a combo switcher/amp to the speakers.
Before the "upgrade", the amplified audio went directly from the RMCRX to the ceiling speakers, easy peasy.
It seems convoluted but it's either that or rip everything out and gamble on DM (which currently has no direct replacement for our RMCRX boxes anyway) Further, the 100-300 DMPS series won't work in these rooms as there is no console or rack to put them in. I guess until there is something better we felt this was the best way to hedge our bets until things settle-out a bit more clearly with DM, and digital video in general..
Hope this helps,
Cheers
Hal Dalzell
Senior Technologist
University of New Brunswick
CETL Technical Shop
458-7661
From: Keith Mills <kmi...@ucalgary.ca<mailto:kmi...@ucalgary.ca>>
Reply-To: "av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>" <av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>>
Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:20 PM
To: "av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>" <av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: RE: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
In the past, we’ve done our own design and install work, but had a couple of new buildings go up where an outside integrator did the AV design and install. That’s our first exposure to Crestron’s DM stuff. There are still some bugs being worked out, but we’re hoping to have the two big rooms ready to go for the start of classes in September, 2011.
Oh, wait a sec . . . .
So far, not impressed w/ DM, hence the question.
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
From: av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com> [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hal Dalzell
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:16 AM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
Hi Ernie,
Curious, are the new smaller DMPS units coming out next month a direct replacement for the current QM-RMCRX-BA processor/receiver, or are you referring to the DMPS-100 and 200 they are releasing shortly? It would be great if it was something equivalent to the RMCRX as they are ideal for ceiling mounts in small classes,
Cheers,
Hal Dalzell
Senior Technologist
University of New Brunswick
CETL Technical Shop
458-7661
From: <Bailey>, Ernest L <baileyerne...@uams.edu<mailto:baileyerne...@uams.edu>>
Reply-To: "av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>" <av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>>
Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:11 PM
To: "'av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:'av-1@googlegroups.com>'" <av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
In our larger rooms, we are starting to use Crestron’s DMPS processing switchers. They have analog and digital inputs with digital outputs. In smaller rooms we are installing projectors with both inputs and switching there, waiting to upgrade to the new, smaller DMPS units expected next month.
Ernie Bailey, CTS
Director of Audiovisual Services
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
Voice: 501.686.5556
Mobile: 501.590.9628
Fax: 501.686.8352
From:av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com> [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:07 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [av-1] Technical Question
We’re now in the period where we’re still supporting analog sources like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we’re also supporting DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at the proj and let it do the scaling?
3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I’m wondering if there’s a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world. We’ve used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
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DM as in "DM" with its horrid combination of dual Cat 5 (one shielded) and Cresnet in one huge pain in the you-know-what cable?
Or DM as in technically "DM8G+" which is just a shielded Cat 6? (If I'm understanding all this correctly. I'm new to Crestron equipment.)
The DMPS switchers everyone is talking about use the DM8G+, which is sounding like a whole lot less trouble and grief.
We did one DM project, a departmental room, our first Crestron project actually, about a year ago and would never repeat that again. (Although it was mostly done in-house, and quite the learning experience for all involved.)
Although we are still planning our first roll out of a bunch of Crestron (DMPS-300) rooms this summer - our first Crestron classrooms - because for the same capability it was half the equipment (simpler install - again in-house) and almost the same cost.
On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:20:34 AM UTC-7, Keith Mills wrote:
> In the past, we’ve done our own design and install work, but had a couple > of new buildings go up where an outside integrator did the AV design and > install. That’s our first exposure to Crestron’s DM stuff. There are > still some bugs being worked out, but we’re hoping to have the two big > rooms ready to go for the start of classes in September, 2011.
> Oh, wait a sec . . . .
> So far, not impressed w/ DM, hence the question.
We have systems that are VGA and composite (VCR/DVD combo). In the progression toward an all-digital room we are doing a hybrid. We are keeping the VGA switcher and getting the projector /transmission updated to digital first. In part 2, we will change the switcher/touchpanels to DMPS 1,2,300 depending on room.
We using Crestron transmitter /receiver pairs ( DMPS DM-RMC-100C and DM-TX201-C ). These are tied into the original analog VGA switcher, by using the HDMI output of the transmitter we feed the desktop monitor via a HDMI-DVI cable. The trick is getting the VCR/DVD video into the system. Since the transmitter scales also, but only has an HDMI and VGA input, both are used. If we use a BNC to HD15 adapter, we can go through the VGA switcher via the RED channel, and scale the video. All analog sources are covered.
We then give the user an HDMI connection for laptops also via the HDMI input of the transmitter. The user is responsible for any adapters/dongles to get an HDMI connection.
Eventually we need to get to all digital inputs, but what is going to be left? A built in computer? VCR/DVD will die off sometime maybe. Doc Cams are still useful and have DVI out. And laptop/tablet. Ahh , but wireless is hedging its ugly head, there where my worry is, no wires = no trust.
Good luck to you all on your digital ventures!
Kelly Larson
Lead A/V systems
Information Technology Services
St. Cloud State University
St. Cloud, MN
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:07 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com
Subject: [av-1] Technical Question
We're now in the period where we're still supporting analog sources like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we're also supporting DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at the proj and let it do the scaling?
3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I'm wondering if there's a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world. We've used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
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We did a swap out of 14 rooms from an analog system with multiple parts and pieces to a DMPS-300, new touchpanel, and an 8G receiver. 2 student workers could do 2-3 rooms a day. The DMPS was pre-programmed and tested. All cables and hardware were put in box. A diagram of what goes where on the back of the DMPS-300 was all they needed. All systems were identical
They called back to the programmer to do testing and that was all!
Loved it, wish I would have funding to do the rest of the rooms
Kelly Larson
Lead A/V systems
Information Technology Services
St. Cloud State University
St. Cloud, MN
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Brown - UCLA
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:49 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
Hi Keith;
DM as in "DM" with its horrid combination of dual Cat 5 (one shielded) and Cresnet in one huge pain in the you-know-what cable?
Or DM as in technically "DM8G+" which is just a shielded Cat 6? (If I'm understanding all this correctly. I'm new to Crestron equipment.)
The DMPS switchers everyone is talking about use the DM8G+, which is sounding like a whole lot less trouble and grief.
We did one DM project, a departmental room, our first Crestron project actually, about a year ago and would never repeat that again. (Although it was mostly done in-house, and quite the learning experience for all involved.)
Although we are still planning our first roll out of a bunch of Crestron (DMPS-300) rooms this summer - our first Crestron classrooms - because for the same capability it was half the equipment (simpler install - again in-house) and almost the same cost.
Greg
On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:20:34 AM UTC-7, Keith Mills wrote:
In the past, we've done our own design and install work, but had a couple of new buildings go up where an outside integrator did the AV design and install. That's our first exposure to Crestron's DM stuff. There are still some bugs being worked out, but we're hoping to have the two big rooms ready to go for the start of classes in September, 2011.
Oh, wait a sec . . . .
So far, not impressed w/ DM, hence the question.
K.
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We are doing the same to 10 small classroom upgrades this summer. In the Lecture Center, we are going to hook up to an Crestron 8x8 switcher in rear projection connecting the 4 big lecture halls with 4 DMPS-300s and a Mediasite too. Can't wait for that job to be completed. The Crestron DMPS systems are the way to go. Truth be told the new 100s would had done the jobs very nicely in the smaller classrooms but they are not available yet, this is why we are using the 300s right now.
Like you Kelly - I wish we had more money to do more upgrades like these too.
Best regards,
Emily Trapp
Director, IMS
SUNY New Paltz
1 Hawk Drive LC 2B New Paltz, New York 12561 (845) 257-3634 - Voice
"Engagement will become the central issue for education in the future and learning won't necessarily be defined by how much 'seat time' a student has put in." Stoloff
From: "Kelly J. Larson" <klar...@stcloudstate.edu> To: av-1@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:39:49 PM Subject: RE: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
We did a swap out of 14 rooms from an analog system with multiple parts and pieces to a DMPS-300, new touchpanel, and an 8G receiver. 2 student workers could do 2-3 rooms a day. The DMPS was pre-programmed and tested. All cables and hardware were put in box. A diagram of what goes where on the back of the DMPS-300 was all they needed. All systems were identical
They called back to the programmer to do testing and that was all!
Loved it, wish I would have funding to do the rest of the rooms
Kelly Larson Lead A/V systems Information Technology Services St. Cloud State University St. Cloud, MN
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Brown - UCLA Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:49 PM To: av-1@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
Hi Keith;
DM as in "DM" with its horrid combination of dual Cat 5 (one shielded) and Cresnet in one huge pain in the you-know-what cable?
Or DM as in technically "DM8G+" which is just a shielded Cat 6? (If I'm understanding all this correctly. I'm new to Crestron equipment.)
The DMPS switchers everyone is talking about use the DM8G+, which is sounding like a whole lot less trouble and grief.
We did one DM project, a departmental room, our first Crestron project actually, about a year ago and would never repeat that again. (Although it was mostly done in-house, and quite the learning experience for all involved.)
Although we are still planning our first roll out of a bunch of Crestron (DMPS-300) rooms this summer - our first Crestron classrooms - because for the same capability it was half the equipment (simpler install - again in-house) and almost the same cost.
Greg
On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:20:34 AM UTC-7, Keith Mills wrote:
In the past, we’ve done our own design and install work, but had a couple of new buildings go up where an outside integrator did the AV design and install. That’s our first exposure to Crestron’s DM stuff. There are still some bugs being worked out, but we’re hoping to have the two big rooms ready to go for the start of classes in September, 2011.
Oh, wait a sec . . . .
So far, not impressed w/ DM, hence the question.
K.
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Since 2010 we've installed about 40 digital capable rooms utilizing the option b.
Keeping a separate analog path ensures a reliable, well understood, relatively simple to debug method of "getting something to display on the projector". Many of these rooms have document cameras and/or BluRay (a little flakey) players which we always route via the digital path to projector. Relatively few laptop user seem to be using the HDMI input yet.
Mostly the MPS409 with conventional HDMI cables and equalizers. Several MLS608 for larger rooms. For dual projection we've used separate analog and digital matrices. None of this stuff is simple to setup so once we've figured out the preferred configuration we make it part of the initialization done by the control system. All rooms have worked reliably once properly setup and debugged.
________________
Donald Newman
CTL - Classroom Support
University of Georgia
706-542-3456
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 1:07 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com
Subject: [av-1] Technical Question
We're now in the period where we're still supporting analog sources like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we're also supporting DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at the proj and let it do the scaling?
3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I'm wondering if there's a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world. We've used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
We're doing two pilots this summer. (8) Crestron dmps300 rooms w/ small
touch panels and (8) extron 608 rooms w/touchlink.
We have plenty of larger DM rooms in place, but these pilots will
ultimately address the smaller classroom and learning space needs that were
mostly successful QM solutions.
It's understood that these solutions handle signal a bit differently, but
we will be assessing more than that, e.g. the end user experience,
roomview(fusion) v. globalviewer functionality, service parameters /
limitations, internal v. vendor support needs, manufacturer etc...
I could give early feedback, but my parents always told me, "if you don't
have anything nice to say, don't say anything"...
But honestly, both solutions are working at this point, with some EDID
strategy at play in the scaled solution. Looking forward to an extron605
demo unit soon.
--
Tim O'Neil
Associate Director, Media Technology Services: Brandeis University
415 South St. MS 045
Waltham, Ma. 02454
781-736-4429 desk, 781-844-2862 cell
129.64.16.83 video
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Emily Trapp <tra...@newpaltz.edu> wrote:
> We are doing the same to 10 small classroom upgrades this summer. In the
> Lecture Center, we are going to hook up to an Crestron 8x8 switcher in rear
> projection connecting the 4 big lecture halls with 4 DMPS-300s and a
> Mediasite too. Can't wait for that job to be completed. The Crestron DMPS
> systems are the way to go. Truth be told the new 100s would had done the
> jobs very nicely in the smaller classrooms but they are not available yet,
> this is why we are using the 300s right now.
> Like you Kelly - I wish we had more money to do more upgrades like these
> too.
> Best regards,
> Emily Trapp
> Director, IMS
> SUNY New Paltz
> 1 Hawk Drive
> LC 2B
> New Paltz, New York 12561
> (845) 257-3634 - Voice
> "Engagement will become the central issue for education in the future and
> learning won't necessarily be defined by how much 'seat time' a student has
> put in." Stoloff
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Kelly J. Larson" <klar...@stcloudstate.edu>
> *To: *av-1@googlegroups.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:39:49 PM
> *Subject: *RE: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
> We did a swap out of 14 rooms from an analog system with multiple parts
> and pieces to a DMPS-300, new touchpanel, and an 8G receiver. 2 student
> workers could do 2-3 rooms a day. The DMPS was pre-programmed and tested.
> All cables and hardware were put in box. A diagram of what goes where on
> the back of the DMPS-300 was all they needed. All systems were identical
> They called back to the programmer to do testing and that was all!
> Loved it, wish I would have funding to do the rest of the rooms
> Kelly Larson
> Lead A/V systems
> Information Technology Services
> St. Cloud State University
> St. Cloud, MN
> *From:* av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Greg Brown - UCLA
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:49 PM
> *To:* av-1@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
> Hi Keith;
> DM as in "DM" with its horrid combination of dual Cat 5 (one shielded) and
> Cresnet in one huge pain in the you-know-what cable?
> Or DM as in technically "DM8G+" which is just a shielded Cat 6? (If I'm
> understanding all this correctly. I'm new to Crestron equipment.)
> The DMPS switchers everyone is talking about use the DM8G+, which is
> sounding like a whole lot less trouble and grief.
> We did one DM project, a departmental room, our first Crestron project
> actually, about a year ago and would never repeat that again. (Although it
> was mostly done in-house, and quite the learning experience for all
> involved.)
> Although we are still planning our first roll out of a bunch of Crestron
> (DMPS-300) rooms this summer - our first Crestron classrooms - because for
> the same capability it was half the equipment (simpler install - again
> in-house) and almost the same cost.
> Greg
> On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:20:34 AM UTC-7, Keith Mills wrote:
> In the past, we’ve done our own design and install work, but had a
> couple of new buildings go up where an outside integrator did the AV design
> and install. That’s our first exposure to Crestron’s DM stuff. There are
> still some bugs being worked out, but we’re hoping to have the two big
> rooms ready to go for the start of classes in September, 2011.
> Oh, wait a sec . . . .
> So far, not impressed w/ DM, hence the question.
> K.
> --
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> To post to this list, send email to l...@av-1.org
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We have also tried different methods of delivering analog and digital. I had a really bad experience with HDMI in one of our first rooms to have digital inputs. I caught so much grief over that, I got questioned as to why we were even installing HDMI inputs in the classrooms. After gently explaining that VGA is going away in a year or two and we need to be ready for laptops with DP or HDMI or whatever else the industry comes up with, I started only installing digital (usually HDMI) in certain rooms where either the users asked for it or I felt there was a real need for it soon.
We currently use an Extron IN1508 scaling switcher ( about $1000) and run the HDMI through an audio extractor before converting it to DVI. I am insisting on projectors that have HDMI inputs, just so we can add them later. This will only handle one digital input, so it's not a perfect solution. We have had some success with the MPS409, too.
Kevin Glasson
Classroom Consultant
CSU, Northridge
818.677.6890
Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet.
- Bob Dylan
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:07 AM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com
Subject: [av-1] Technical Question
We're now in the period where we're still supporting analog sources like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we're also supporting DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at the proj and let it do the scaling?
3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I'm wondering if there's a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world. We've used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
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We're looking at a Crestron DM-TX-401-C (Not shipping yet in copper) &
DM-RMC-200-C solution as a potential replacement from the QM-RMCRX-BA.
We've done over 70 classrooms with original DM 8x8 and 16x16 rooms and we're
going to start rolling out DMPS-300-C designs this winter.
Going back to Keith's question, whatever you select should be a single piece
of copper or fiber going to from the projector. Frankly I'd really want it
to be a Valens chip driving it (HDBaseT).
Breaking out signal is really a waste at this point. I don't really care
for any of long distance offering at this point as they are still keeping
separate the analog and digital (like in the 608). The XTP series does, but
it doesn't seem right-sized for most classroom options.
If you're looking for alternatives to DM, here are a couple of ones I saw at
the show:
I haven't tried any of them, but in particular the Aurora Multimedia
ASP-S123V looks interesting. Imaging pairing that with the Panasonic
HDBaseT projector when it comes out in October and bringing your control
system of choice.
Matt
Matthew A. Silverman, CTS, PMP
Project Manager, Learning Space Design
Division of Instructional Technology (DoIT)
George Mason University
(703) 993-3444, msilv...@gmu.edu
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bailey, Ernest L
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 1:20 PM
To: 'av-1@googlegroups.com'
Subject: RE: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
I was referring to the 100s and 200s. I would like to see something like the
QM-RMCRX-BA with a DM out and then put a DM receiver at the projector.
Ernie Bailey, CTS
Director of Audiovisual Services
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
Voice: 501.686.5556
Mobile: 501.590.9628
Fax: 501.686.8352
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hal
Dalzell
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:16 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
Hi Ernie,
Curious, are the new smaller DMPS units coming out next month a direct
replacement for the current QM-RMCRX-BA processor/receiver, or are you
referring to the DMPS-100 and 200 they are releasing shortly? It would be
great if it was something equivalent to the RMCRX as they are ideal for
ceiling mounts in small classes,
Cheers,
Hal Dalzell
Senior Technologist
University of New Brunswick
CETL Technical Shop
458-7661
From: <Bailey>, Ernest L <baileyerne...@uams.edu>
Reply-To: "av-1@googlegroups.com" <av-1@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:11 PM
To: "'av-1@googlegroups.com'" <av-1@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [av-1] RE: Technical Question
In our larger rooms, we are starting to use Crestron's DMPS processing
switchers. They have analog and digital inputs with digital outputs. In
smaller rooms we are installing projectors with both inputs and switching
there, waiting to upgrade to the new, smaller DMPS units expected next
month.
Ernie Bailey, CTS
Director of Audiovisual Services
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
Voice: 501.686.5556
Mobile: 501.590.9628
Fax: 501.686.8352
From: av-1@googlegroups.com [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Keith Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:07 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com
Subject: [av-1] Technical Question
We're now in the period where we're still supporting analog sources like
VGA, composite video and S-video, but we're also supporting DVI-D and HDMI.
How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
a. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and
upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
b. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at
the proj and let it do the scaling?
c. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and
digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I'm wondering if there's a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world.
We've used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling
switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades.
There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
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> We’re now in the period where we’re still supporting analog sources
> like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we’re also supporting
> DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your
> projectors: [etc]
For years, my standard has been to use a single VGA cable to the
projector, and do all the switching and conversion at the lectern.
Initially it was a VGA A/B/C/D switch and a cheap signal converter
for the VCR; then we standardized on the Analog Way ESC341 switcher/ scaler. That unit is no longer available, but I did put in a few
Extron switcher/scalers on the Law campus.
Two years ago, I stopped adding VCRs to new installations, so instead
of the switcher/scaler, I've been using a Kramer VGA switch. For DVD
playback we always relied on the computers, because that was the only
way I could have DVD playback without a @#$% remote control.
There are four new classrooms under construction in an extensively
renovated (gutted to the shell) building. For those rooms, I decided
to use Crestron DM-8G+, so I specified the DMPS-300-C. Not that I
need nine inputs, but the 100- and 200 are still not available. I
presented my shopping list to the Boss, and after I picked him up off
the floor, I went back to the drawing board and managed to come up
with a solution that was about the same cost as using an analog scaler.
By the time I left, I had the programs written for all four rooms,
and I had assembled and tested the hardware for two of them. I ended
up using the DM-TX-201-C, DM-RMC-100-C transmit and receive pair,
along with a 4x1 Kramer HDMI switch to give me a second (and third
and fourth) HDMI input, QM-RMC controller to manage the whole thing,
and a TPMC-4SM touch panel. When I left, I had two rooms ready to
install, and two rooms with the software done ready to configure and
install. So each room will have a desktop computer connected via DVI- HDMI, a VGA cable for an older laptop, and an HDMI cable for a
digital device. The most complicated part was the need to feed audio
back from the projector to the room audio amplifier so that we could
get sound out of an external HDMI device. (No audio de-embedder;
remember I had to do this on the cheap).
Those of you who have had problems with DM, I am curious as to what
sorts of problems you've had, and if you've upgraded the firmware to
DM-8G+. From a Crestron demo I attended, it seems that DM was more
than a little bit flaky even if you use the pricey Crestron cable,
but the 8G+ is able to reliably feed high resolution over pieces of
wet spaghetti installed by electrical contractors...and the entire
difference is in the equipment firmware. In my testing, I didn't
have any problems with the DM signal; the biggest issue I had was
EDID. My solution, though not recommended by experts, was to tell
the DM-TX-201-C to copy the EDID info from the most restrictive
display, then put the Kramer switch into PC mode so that the EDID
data would be continuously available; that made everything play nice.
Anyway, now you have me wondering whether they will be praising me or
cursing me when the new rooms go on-line... 8-)
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Former classroom integrator and Crestron programmer
Capital University, Columbus, Ohio
Oops! I said option b when I should have said option c.
These are the 40 installed systems we have at this time.
Future installations are another matter. I agree that scaling chipset like those for HDBaseT look very promising for lower cost and interoperable products.
Don
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 11, 2012, at 3:26 PM, "Donald E Newman" <denew...@uga.edu<mailto:denew...@uga.edu>> wrote:
Good question Keith.
Since 2010 we’ve installed about 40 digital capable rooms utilizing the option b.
Keeping a separate analog path ensures a reliable, well understood, relatively simple to debug method of “getting something to display on the projector”. Many of these rooms have document cameras and/or BluRay (a little flakey) players which we always route via the digital path to projector. Relatively few laptop user seem to be using the HDMI input yet.
Mostly the MPS409 with conventional HDMI cables and equalizers. Several MLS608 for larger rooms. For dual projection we’ve used separate analog and digital matrices. None of this stuff is simple to setup so once we’ve figured out the preferred configuration we make it part of the initialization done by the control system. All rooms have worked reliably once properly setup and debugged.
________________
Donald Newman
CTL - Classroom Support
University of Georgia
706-542-3456
From: av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com> [mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 1:07 PM
To: av-1@googlegroups.com<mailto:av-1@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [av-1] Technical Question
We’re now in the period where we’re still supporting analog sources like VGA, composite video and S-video, but we’re also supporting DVI-D and HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:
1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at the proj and let it do the scaling?
3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?
I’m wondering if there’s a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world. We’ve used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the method chosen.
Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?
K.
Keith D. Mills
Manager, Classroom Services
IT--Communications/Media
University of Calgary
MLB 26, 2500 University Drive, NW
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4
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I am about 100 rooms deep on Crestron DM upgrades. I have had some issues,
mainly the integration onto the campus network.
All of our rooms had an extron MLS-406 or 306 already, so I purchased the
fiber version of the DM-TX300 and RMC-100 to handle the HD input from the
Mac Mini that is in the room and used the extron switch to switch between
the laptop, doc cam VGA inputs and handle all the audio.
Moving forward we are using the DMPS-100-C for our basic level rooms (going
to test using the shielded EZ-RJ45 instead of the Crestron shielded RJ-45)
and the 300 for our larger spaces.
I used the copper version of the 300 and 100 for my first 5 or so rooms and
immediately went to fiber for all of my retrofits for ease of installation.
Overall I am happy with the Crestron DM equipment and the support. There
is a learning curve and overcoming issues are harder than with analog
systems. My installation time for example would be a half day to upgrade a
room, and a day and a half to configure for our network, test and tweak.
--Mike
___________________________
Michael J. Roberts, CTS, DMC-E
mjrobe...@colgate.edu
Multimedia Systems Technician
Colgate University
442 Case-Geyer
13 Oak Dr.
Hamilton, NY 13346
Office: 315.228.6749
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Donald E Newman <denew...@uga.edu> wrote:
> Oops! I said option b when I should have said option c.
> These are the 40 installed systems we have at this time.
> Future installations are another matter. I agree that scaling chipset
> like those for HDBaseT look very promising for lower cost and interoperable
> products.
> Don
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 11, 2012, at 3:26 PM, "Donald E Newman" <denew...@uga.edu> wrote:
> Good question Keith.****
> ** **
> Since 2010 we’ve installed about 40 digital capable rooms utilizing the
> option b. ****
> ** **
> Keeping a separate analog path ensures a reliable, well understood,
> relatively simple to debug method of “getting something to display on the
> projector”. Many of these rooms have document cameras and/or BluRay (a
> little flakey) players which we always route via the digital path to
> projector. Relatively few laptop user seem to be using the HDMI input yet.
> ****
> ** **
> Mostly the MPS409 with conventional HDMI cables and equalizers. Several
> MLS608 for larger rooms. For dual projection we’ve used separate analog
> and digital matrices. None of this stuff is simple to setup so once we’ve
> figured out the preferred configuration we make it part of the
> initialization done by the control system. All rooms have worked reliably
> once properly setup and debugged. ****
> We’re now in the period where we’re still supporting analog sources like
> VGA, composite video and S-video, but we’re also supporting DVI-D and
> HDMI. How do you prefer to get signals to your projectors:****
> ****
> 1. Use a scaling switcher that will take a variety of inputs and
> upscale them, and then send one high resolution signal to the projector?
> ****
> 2. Feed several signal types to the projector, do all the switching at
> the proj and let it do the scaling?****
> 3. Use a switcher like the Extron MLS 608 which keeps analog and
> digital signals separate and do final switching at the projector?****
> ****
> I’m wondering if there’s a preferred method out there in the AV-1 world.
> We’ve used all three methods, but have had some issues with scaling
> switchers not working properly out of the box and needing firmware
> upgrades. There are also cost and complexity issues, depending on the
> method chosen.****
> ****
> Any good or bad experiences with any of these methods?****
I have been trying to stay with basic HDMI switching and whenever I need to adapt the analog device ASAP to digital. HDMI switchers are plentiful and most new projectors and large TVs can deal with their own EDID communications with the devices. Altlona has some good VGA and Video to HDMI adapters. Also, for the past few years I've been making sure that every piece of source gear I buy has a digital out. It costs a little more but not when compared to the scaling switchers.
_________________________________
Michael Rhoadarmer, Instructional Systems Manager
Academic & Media Technology, Wheaton College
501 College Ave, Wheaton, IL 60187
630-752-5171 Phone
michael.rhoadar...@wheaton.edu<mailto:michael.rhoadar...@wheaton.edu>
