Is high-tech ruining Austin?
Mary Greening
http://dallasnews.com/texas_southwest/109591_austingrow_11t.html
Webmistress
Austin City Links
Olin Murrell
in 1972... the locals were whining THEN that "Austin" was dead, and "you really
shoulda been here (fill in your favorite number of years here) years ago."
I left for a while and returned in 1980ish, and the same whines were going on
then too. I don't doubt that my favorite home-state city is changing, and that
it's not all for the better, but stuff happens.
The second point of interest is, seeing as how I now reside in Nashville, TN...
it's painfully obvious that the writer of that article has a) never been to
Nashville or b) didn't pay much attention when he was here. Comparing 6th Street
to Music Row is about like comparing Stubbs BBQ to Neiman Marcus.
They're THAT different. Save for a couple small restaurants and one dingy little
bar, "Music Row," which is actually three separate and parallel streets, is
mostly office space. Even the Country Music Hall of Fame, which did produce a
few "live" shows from time to time, is moving to the downtown area. The grungy
little kitch mall across Demonbruen, that had a couple live joints, along with
the old Gilley's are all GONE! Replaced by parking lots and office space.
What the writer MAY be thinking of is what's known as Lower Broad... that
section of Broadway that goes from I-40 to the Cumberland River. THAT is where
the live venues and tourist traps exist, there and up and down 2nd Avenue.
You've got the Arena (home to arena league football and NHL Hockey) down there,
a fairly decent convention center, soon the CMA Hall of Fame, and across the
Cumberland... Adelphia Stadium, home of the Titans (formerly the Oilers). Also
nestled in there are the Ryman Auditorium (early and long-time home of the Grand
'ol Opry), now used to produce "legends" concerts, musical based plays and is
open for tours, Tootsie's Orchid Lounge, the Ernest Tubb Record Store and enough
construction to make it all look like downtown Beruit.
But none of it's "on" Music Row. That's where the suits work.
Alas, the writer probably is right. The Austin I fell in love with is gone. But,
it was gone before I left town two years ago, and it was not the high-tech
industry that killed it off. That just represents money, and a lot of pickers
learned to program so they could better afford to be pickers, and more than a
few of 'em just got bone-tired of never making more than fifty bucks to play a
night somewhere, to a crowd who could have cared whether ANYBODY was playing or
not.
I can remember nights, while producing a show at the Saxon Pub, that I could
count on, at least once a month or so, having Jerry Jeff Walker, or Steve
Fromholz, or Joe Ely, or David Halley, or Shawn Phillips, or any number of other
very good entertainers show up and do a short guest set. I guess that still
happens some, but by the time I left town, most of those guys wouldn't even take
a guitar out of the case in town.
From a music business viewpoint, Nashville is a LOT more like Austin used to be
than Austin may have really ever been. It is absolutely no big deal to attend a
writers' night here and hear five writers do nothing but hits for free! Just the
other night, my bride and I went to a local joint to hear some pretty good
songwriters... and one of the guys who cut a bunch of their tunes showed up to
join in the round... Garthzilla hisownself!
Nashville's a lot like Austin in that regard. Very few musicians make a living
playing live HERE, but there are at least two things in abundance here that
Austin's NEVER had... studios where, if your chops are up to snuff, you can earn
a hell of a living just playing sessions, and the infrastructure of the business
side in the form of publishing companies, record labels and publicity/management
firms.
What I, as a former (and maybe someday again) resident of Austin would like to
see is for the city to find ways to channel this newfound economic boom into
ways to improve quality of life... whatever that may entail.
Other than that, I guess the DMN writer got it about right. ;^)
"Mary Greening" <mgre...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8kg3ik$bt0$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Corey Huinker
AUSTIN - Years ago two of the state's masterful, defining musicians
began slipping away from their beloved Austin, the often
self-congratulatory city that calls itself "The Live Music Capital of
the
World."
Stevie Ray Vaughan moved back to Dallas; Doug Sahm increasingly
retreated to San Antonio. The fey, hip "Sir Doug" explained that the
laid-back, anti-conspicuous-consumption town that he once knew was
disappearing down a high-tech, high-dollar highway.
It's safe to say that the tech boom was not in effect the last time Stevie Ray
decided to do ANYTHING.
Similarly, Mr Sahm has had little to say as of late. From what I've seen, most
of the musicians leaving Austin are leaving for New York and Chicago to pursue
higher dollar venues and comparatively less competition for gigs. In short,
they're leaving because Austin is too small, not too big.
The rest of the article holds close to the facts, but is clearly geared towards
Dallas residents unfamiliar with the notion that people in Austin might have day
jobs.
stp
"Mary Greening" <mgre...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8kg3ik$bt0$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> This is what Dallas has to say. :(
>
> http://dallasnews.com/texas_southwest/109591_austingrow_11t.html
>
> Webmistress
> Austin City Links
>
Beats me why business people want to be downtown. Gridlock, no place
to park. What killed Joseph's and Congress Ave. Booksellers was that
would-be customers other than the unlucky folks who work downtown
couldn't get there.
Dusty Rhodes
news:396BA61F...@corlogic.com...
> OK, I'll start off by taking issue with the first two paragraphs:
>
> AUSTIN - Years ago two of the state's masterful, defining musicians
> began slipping away from their beloved Austin, the often
> self-congratulatory city that calls itself "The Live Music Capital
of
> the
> World."
>
> Stevie Ray Vaughan moved back to Dallas; Doug Sahm increasingly
> retreated to San Antonio. The fey, hip "Sir Doug" explained that the
> laid-back, anti-conspicuous-consumption town that he once knew was
> disappearing down a high-tech, high-dollar highway.
>
>
> It's safe to say that the tech boom was not in effect the last time Stevie
Ray
> decided to do ANYTHING.
Um, how about Motorola, the number one private employer in town in the late
'80s? IBM was around then. TI, too. Dell started out and expanded
exponentially while SRV was still with us.
> Similarly, Mr Sahm has had little to say as of late. From what I've seen,
most
> of the musicians leaving Austin are leaving for New York and Chicago to
pursue
> higher dollar venues and comparatively less competition for gigs. In
short,
> they're leaving because Austin is too small, not too big.
Doug Sahm died in November. As for musicians splitting for Chicago or NYC,
offhand I can think of few, but nowhere near the number of musicians that
have moved here. I didn't read the article, but the first 2 paragraphs are
definitely accurate.
Cheers,
Dusty
Corey Huinker
> Ray
> > decided to do ANYTHING.
>
> Um, how about Motorola, the number one private employer in town in the late
> '80s? IBM was around then. TI, too. Dell started out and expanded
> exponentially while SRV was still with us.
I didn't say that tech companies weren't here. But certainly the rent pressures
were not in effect at that time, and continued to not be in effect until several
years after he ceased to be concerned about rents in Austin.
> Doug Sahm died in November.
I am aware of this. I found it interesting that the only two musicians citied
in the article are both dead, and one has been dead for nearly 10 years. He
also left at a time where, by the articles own figures, Austin was nearly
vacant. The article would have done better to use living, breathing musicians
as examples. Using Stevie does little to support the notion that high tech is
killing Austin's music scene. A much better choice would have been Bob Mould.
> As for musicians splitting for Chicago or NYC,
> offhand I can think of few, but nowhere near the number of musicians that
> have moved here. I didn't read the article, but the first 2 paragraphs are
> definitely accurate.
The rest of the article was a bunch of facts and figures about rents, housing
cost, people moving downtown, etc. Informative, but all stuff we've heard
before, and relatively little tie-in to the title of the article, except for a
mention of the Liberty Lunch/CSC deal.
From what I've seen and heard from more music industry saavy friends, there are
two tides now. The inward tide of musicians is still strong, but there is a
smaller outbound tide of musicians seeking to cash in on their Austin status. I
can't blame them, since the whole point is to make a living being a musician, it
makes sense to leverage whatever fame ya got. Amy Atchley, for instance, found
it very easy to get booked in New York because of her Austin connection. So
easy that she decided to move there. Drums And Tuba did likewise, I suspect.
Mike Dahmus
infinite number of monkeys to write:
>> Um, how about Motorola, the number one private employer in town in the late
>> '80s? IBM was around then. TI, too. Dell started out and expanded
>> exponentially while SRV was still with us.
>
>I didn't say that tech companies weren't here. But certainly the rent pressures
>were not in effect at that time, and continued to not be in effect until several
>years after he ceased to be concerned about rents in Austin.
Since the overwhelming majority of new tech employment has been out on the far
fringes, with a huge percentage of their employees living in Round Rock, Cedar
Park, Pflugerville, etc.; it's overwhelmingly stupid of the anti-tech folks to
blame high tech for the demise of the downtown music scene or affordable
central-city housing. Someday Ken Lieck will figure that out.
HTH,
Mike Dahmus mdahmus at I O DOT COM
http://www.dahmus.org/mike/
"No one likes a pedantic smartarse..."
Mike Dahmus
infinite number of monkeys to write:
I'd kill to work downtown. For one thing, not having to drive 15 minutes to
lunch every day would be a great improvement. If you think downtown gridlock
is bad, try to get through Braker/183 at lunch hour.
Speaker to Animals
<mdahNO_%_SPAMmus@iNO_%_SPAMo.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:20:26 GMT, Corey Huinker <co...@corlogic.com> hired an
>infinite number of monkeys to write:
>
>Since the overwhelming majority of new tech employment has been out on the far
>fringes, with a huge percentage of their employees living in Round Rock, Cedar
>Park, Pflugerville, etc.; it's overwhelmingly stupid of the anti-tech folks to
>blame high tech for the demise of the downtown music scene or affordable
>central-city housing. Someday Ken Lieck will figure that out.
>
Absolutely right. Who are those guys that suggest that people moving
to round rock or cedar park would dare to cash in on their proximity
to downtown - how dare they....
And since they are on the fringes - who would argue ignorantly that
they would possibly add to the increasing traffic congestion - what is
up with these people? Surely those of us on the fringes...stay on the
fringes like caged rats....
Who could argue that these fringe people don't want to live downtown -
when many Dell employees travel from buda, san marcos, and killeen. No
way would they want to move closer to work and be around the music
scene - flaming idiots...
>HTH,
Mike Dahmus
an infinite number of monkeys to write:
>On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:21:06 -0500, Mike Dahmus
><mdahNO_%_SPAMmus@iNO_%_SPAMo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:20:26 GMT, Corey Huinker <co...@corlogic.com> hired an
>>infinite number of monkeys to write:
>>
>
>>Since the overwhelming majority of new tech employment has been out on the far
>>fringes, with a huge percentage of their employees living in Round Rock, Cedar
>>Park, Pflugerville, etc.; it's overwhelmingly stupid of the anti-tech folks to
>>blame high tech for the demise of the downtown music scene or affordable
>>central-city housing. Someday Ken Lieck will figure that out.
>>
>Absolutely right. Who are those guys that suggest that people moving
>to round rock or cedar park would dare to cash in on their proximity
>to downtown - how dare they....
>
>And since they are on the fringes - who would argue ignorantly that
>they would possibly add to the increasing traffic congestion - what is
>up with these people? Surely those of us on the fringes...stay on the
>fringes like caged rats....
>
>Who could argue that these fringe people don't want to live downtown -
>when many Dell employees travel from buda, san marcos, and killeen. No
>way would they want to move closer to work and be around the music
>scene - flaming idiots...
Uh, I was only talking about the concept which many musicians and their
hangers-on seem to be clinging to - that their rents and home prices are going
up because of high-tech employees who are forcing them out. If only a tiny
percentage of high-tech employees are moving to the central city, it's not
_them_ that's having the direct effect. Ditto with shot bars pushing out live
music venues - it's not the Dell employees who the shot bars are trying to
attract.
I'm the _last_ guy who's going to suggest that downtown is a bad place to
live. I'm just pointing out that hardly any high-tech people live in the
central city now, so it's stupid to blame them directly for high rents,
housing prices, etc.
Speaker to Animals
<mdahNO_%_SPAMmus@iNO_%_SPAMo.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:34:02 -0400, Speaker to Animals <5...@modem.com> hired
>an infinite number of monkeys to write:
>
>>On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:21:06 -0500, Mike Dahmus
>><mdahNO_%_SPAMmus@iNO_%_SPAMo.com> wrote:
>>
>
>Uh, I was only talking about the concept which many musicians and their
>hangers-on seem to be clinging to - that their rents and home prices are going
>up because of high-tech employees who are forcing them out. If only a tiny
>percentage of high-tech employees are moving to the central city, it's not
>_them_ that's having the direct effect. Ditto with shot bars pushing out live
>music venues - it's not the Dell employees who the shot bars are trying to
>attract.
>
>I'm the _last_ guy who's going to suggest that downtown is a bad place to
>live. I'm just pointing out that hardly any high-tech people live in the
>central city now, so it's stupid to blame them directly for high rents,
>housing prices, etc.
>
I have read out of context, offer my all sincere apologies, and will
ask my lover to smack me silly for the crime. Although, in some
circles that wouldn't be a punishment..
Dusty Rhodes
> > As for musicians splitting for Chicago or NYC,
> > offhand I can think of few, but nowhere near the number of musicians
that
> > have moved here. I didn't read the article, but the first 2 paragraphs
are
> > definitely accurate.
>
> The rest of the article was a bunch of facts and figures about rents,
housing
> cost, people moving downtown, etc. Informative, but all stuff we've heard
> before, and relatively little tie-in to the title of the article, except
for a
> mention of the Liberty Lunch/CSC deal.
Like I said, I didn't read the article, but the 2 paragraphs you quoted are
completely accurate. Neither said anything about rents.
Cheers,
Dusty
Dusty Rhodes
news:DGNa5.51681$NP5.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "Mary Greening" <mgre...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:8kg3ik$bt0$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> > This is what Dallas has to say. :(
> >
> > http://dallasnews.com/texas_southwest/109591_austingrow_11t.html
> >
> > Webmistress
> > Austin City Links
> >
> I think Doug is dead wrong about the decent enchiladas.
> Beats me why business people want to be downtown. Gridlock, no place
> to park. What killed Joseph's and Congress Ave. Booksellers was that
> would-be customers other than the unlucky folks who work downtown
> couldn't get there.
I'd much rather work downtown than in some steel and glass monstrosity
somewhere in the cultural wastelands of South Dallas (North Austin). Of
course, I'd rather work in a funky/cool environment in a highly desirable
neighborhood like Hyde park than either alternative, which is exactly what I
do.
Cheers,
Dusty
Chris Bellomy
: "stp" <stand...@my-Deja.com> wrote in message
This entire thread makes me appreciate Fort Worth just a bit more. :)
cb
ThinkingMan
kicks your sorry not-going-to-heaven ass out.
"Dusty Rhodes" <te...@CANSPAMtexas.net> wrote in message
news:d53b5.337424$VR.50...@news5.giganews.com...
> "stp" <stand...@my-Deja.com> wrote in message
> news:DGNa5.51681$NP5.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Mary Greening" <mgre...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:8kg3ik$bt0$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> > > This is what Dallas has to say. :(
> > >
> > > http://dallasnews.com/texas_southwest/109591_austingrow_11t.html
> > >
> > > Webmistress
> > > Austin City Links
> > >
> > I think Doug is dead wrong about the decent enchiladas.
> > Beats me why business people want to be downtown. Gridlock, no place
> > to park. What killed Joseph's and Congress Ave. Booksellers was that
> > would-be customers other than the unlucky folks who work downtown
> > couldn't get there.
>
> I'd much rather work downtown than in some steel and glass monstrosity
> somewhere in the cultural wastelands of South Dallas (North Austin). Of
> course, I'd rather work in a funky/cool environment in a highly desirable
> neighborhood like Hyde park than either alternative, which is exactly what
I
> do.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dusty
>
>
Dusty Rhodes
news:X56b5.7703$%P.53...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> That's fine for now, Rusty, but what about when HPBC buys everything and
> kicks your sorry not-going-to-heaven ass out.
That will be the day you grow a brain to back up your sock puppet nick.
Cheers,
Dusty
Mandalyn
>
>I'm the _last_ guy who's going to suggest that downtown is a bad place to
>live. I'm just pointing out that hardly any high-tech people live in the
>central city now, so it's stupid to blame them directly for high rents,
>housing prices, etc.
Am going to have to disagree with Mike on this point: the majority of
the folks buying those condos on 5th street seem to be high-tech folks.
Granted, I have only been to one of the association meetings (with a friend,
who oddly enough, is a high-tech person), but I hadn't seen so many
badges and gadgets since lunchtime at the Mongolian BBQ up north. :)
There are a lot of them downtown, and they are spending the big $ to live
there, which means those of with the slightly (or not so slightly) smaller
$ cannot afford to live down there. Not that I mind, I like my house with
dead burnt grass and sad dry trees just fine. :) (But the roses are doin
ok, go figure. )
mandi
Corey Huinker
> the folks buying those condos on 5th street seem to be high-tech folks.
True.
> There are a lot of them downtown, and they are spending the big $ to live
> there, which means those of with the slightly (or not so slightly) smaller
> $ cannot afford to live down there.
That's the funny part. You'd think that small-to-medium $ peeps couldn't afford
to live downtown, but a lot of the condos in my building (on 4th St) sold in the
70-100k range. And a lot of those units sat vacant for most of 1999. Granted,
now that they're all bought up, they'd sell for a lot more now. But still, a
lot of my neighbors have downright average incomes, they just bought at the
right time.
Amazing what a difference one block can make.
> Not that I mind, I like my house with
> dead burnt grass and sad dry trees just fine. :) (But the roses are doin
> ok, go figure. )
Take a trip to the Zilker botanical garden and find yourself some happy dry
plants. :)
Mike Dahmus
number of monkeys to write:
>In article <8Y9sOax8DEqUM3gcrbs+nuKCHe=H...@4ax.com>, Mike Dahmus wrote:
>>
>>I'm the _last_ guy who's going to suggest that downtown is a bad place to
>>live. I'm just pointing out that hardly any high-tech people live in the
>>central city now, so it's stupid to blame them directly for high rents,
>>housing prices, etc.
>
>Am going to have to disagree with Mike on this point: the majority of
>the folks buying those condos on 5th street seem to be high-tech folks.
I wouldn't disagree with that statement, but on the other hand the land there
wasn't being used for housing before; nor would it have been likely to have
been used for housing. I'm talking mainly about the central city neighborhoods
like Hyde Park, Clarksville, Travis Heights, etc.
99% of the high-tech people I know live on the fringes of Austin or completely
outside the city.
Fargo 617
"Mike Dahmus" <mdahNO_%_SPAMmus@iNO_%_SPAMo.com> wrote in message
news:HPptOTwuB2Jwxv...@4ax.com...
Olin Murrell
"Curmit" <Don'ttrustPo...@aol.org> wrote in message
news:8F72DF42...@news.earthlink.net...
> Mandalyn <squ...@www.fnord.org> wrote in
> <slrn8mq9u2...@www.fnord.org>:
>
> >In article <8Y9sOax8DEqUM3gcrbs+nuKCHe=H...@4ax.com>, Mike Dahmus wrote:
> >>
> >>I'm the _last_ guy who's going to suggest that downtown is a bad place to
> >>live. I'm just pointing out that hardly any high-tech people live in the
> >>central city now, so it's stupid to blame them directly for high rents,
> >>housing prices, etc.
> >
> >Am going to have to disagree with Mike on this point: the majority of
> >the folks buying those condos on 5th street seem to be high-tech folks.
> >who oddly enough, is a high-tech person), but I hadn't seen so many
> >badges and gadgets since lunchtime at the Mongolian BBQ up north. :)
> >
> >there, which means those of with the slightly (or not so slightly) smaller
> >dead burnt grass and sad dry trees just fine. :) (But the roses are doin
> >ok, go figure. )
> >
> >
>
> The mark of a high tech asshole who really thinks they look cool:
>
> 1. always has to have a cellular phone displayed prominently, just in case
> their wife want to call and check up and where wussie boy is.
>
> 2. Got to have some kind of palm pilot, becuase HEY! You can't write down a
> couple of numbers and stick them in your wallet...Noooooo...you have to show
> everyone how "rich" you are that you can afford to spend hundreds of dollars
> on a bad little screen in black and white that you can't read in the sunlight
> to retrieve a couple of phone numbers of people who wish they'd never given
> them to you in the first place.
> a. the fact that most of these are bought by company money is just
> worst.
>
> 3. Docker pants and blue cotten shirts, and hush puppy type loafers...need I
> say more?
>
No Hush Puppies, but I do wear Dockers. Funny thing about them is, they LOOK
just exactly like the khaki pants my grandfather wore when I was a kid.
> 4. Montblanc pens.
>
Now, I DO have a Montblanc pen. Funny thing about that is, a) I did not buy it
and b) it was not a "corporate" gift. I FOUND it, lying on the ground and picked
it up. Didn't strike me what I had found until a bit later.
It's sure a nice pen, but why anybody would ever pay $185 for one is beyond me.
Rod Brick
As a computer geek, I find your description pretty accurate, and funny.
Unfortunately, I don't fit the stereotype:
>1. always has to have a cellular phone displayed prominently, just in case
>their wife want to call and check up and where wussie boy is.
I Have no cell phone. I don't even have call-waiting. Do you?
>2. Got to have some kind of palm pilot, becuase HEY! You can't write down
a
I Have no Palm or any similar high-tech thingy. I don't even have a good,
old fashioned "write in it" organizer.
>couple of numbers and stick them in your wallet
Yep, that's the method I use.
>3. Docker pants and blue cotten shirts, and hush puppy type
I do have Dockers, but I only wear them at our clients' sites because, like
you say, they're expected of me.
>4. Montblanc pens.
Hey, I DO Have one of these. A gift from my parents.
>5. And, isn't anyone who's ever been to Hong Kong who doesn't have a
$7,000
>knockoff watch on their wrist?
I have a real Hamilton. Last of the American watches (Swiss made movement,
of course).
>6. Driving a two seater very expensive leased "sports" car so they can
rush
>around Austin at 40mph in traffic with their head 1" from blazing hot steel
>of the roof. ( now where am I going to put my briefcase....no room
I drive an old '77 Pontiac, and I love it. Gotta love that good ol'
seventies GM "cloud soft" ride. Where you gonna find that today? On really
hot days, I drive my '79 Chrysler (it has functional, good ol' RC-12 Air
Conditioning). Except for the AC, I confess it's a lemon.
>7 Having a cell phone AND a pager AND call notes.
I have none of the above. Did I mention I don't even have call-waiting?
>got lucky and studied the the right thing in college when you flipped heads
>or tails. Nobody really needs to contact you that often. And definitely
not
>at happy hour where you prominently put your phone down on the bar so
>everyone can see how hopelessly full of yourself you really are, and you
>wonder why you can never score except with the fat girl at the end of the
I chose computers because I love them.....didn't even consider job
opportunites. And you'd be surprised how well some women react when they
ask you what you do (I never volunteer this information), and you mention
you're a computer geek. A fringe benefit of the trade these last couple
years, I guess.
>8. Living in a 200K house in Round Rock, with no trees and watching your
>simular yuppie scum overpaid asshole in his bathroom cleaning his shirt
>collar in the sink while you're watching TV on your 47" HDTV which you
I don't live in Round Rock. I live east-side....soon to be living in a
large-treed, older neighborhood near Metric though. And I have a twenty
year old wood-grained Mitsubishi, through which I receive about six channels
over the good ol' fashioned air waves. No cable or satellite. How about
you?
>9. Toys...there will always be some very expensive, very useless, limited
>use toy that they own. Motorcycle, speed boat, time shares in Bosnia or
>Fiji, whatever. The one thing is for sure....they buy them new or at full
>price and when times comes to sell them, they really can't understand why
Closest thing to a toy I have is an old IBM PS/2 model 77, which I bought on
Ebay for about $50. Gotta love the good ol' MCA architecture.
>10. Savings and debt control. None.
I did very well even before becoming a computer geek. And no debt (remember
the cars I drive?).
>Curmit ®
Like I said, very funny description, and generally accurate. But it sounds
more like the description of your typical Austin baby-boomer....you know,
those born between 1945 and 1965. I'm just one who doesn't fit the
stereotype.
Corey Huinker
> dues...yup....just what I alus wanted to sink my investment money into...
I'll address your snide remarks one by one:
100K:
that varies from unit to unit.
badly made:
and yet they're still standing...
former apartment:
no argument there
no parking:
untrue, I have two parking spots
horrendous condo dues:
opinion question, and the owners vote on how much money to raise and what to
spend it on.
investment money:
well, there are realtors who have already expressed client's willingness to pay
30% more for the place than I bought it for three MONTHS ago. From an
investment point of view, that's pretty good.
Corey Huinker
I'd need a name and address to get back to you.
You change names more often than people need to change 'mobil' homes.
Corey Huinker
> I don't know if I can keep up posting here with my feelings get so savagly
> hurt on a consistent daily basis from such erudite scathing witsters like
> you.
I was just saying that there's not much point in making a bet with you, because
'you' changes so often. If you'd like get more respect, start by using your
real name.
> Truth hurts, eh? You know you made a terrible mistake becuase you were too
> lazy or too stupid to figure it out, and now you're doubly fucked because you
> present your stupidity for the whole world to see, and then you become triply
> fucked trying to defend your intial stupidity.
I'm happy with my choice. My _walk_ to work is four blocks. My place is nice,
and I don't have a lawn to mow (that being said, most of Austin won't have lawns
to mow in about two weeks). The property value of the neighborhood is very
good, and likely to get better, given that three to five thousand CSC workers
will be working four blocks away in just under two years. Even if only 2% of
them want to live downtown, that's still enough people to buy this building
outright, and that totally disregards any new workers being drawn downtown by
Intel or Vignette. I like those odds. My only real fear is that somebody will
try to buy out everybody in the building just to plow it under, because then I'd
have to move.
> Stupid is as stupid does....and hey! We've all been there and we've all done
> stupid things. Be a man, admit you're wrong and you did something really
> stupid, put that piece of badly made crap up for sale pronto and sell it to
> someone even stupider or more clueless than yourself, and go by some land and
> a house, or better yet, rent and invest the diference.
The neighbors of a former boss of mine are selling their 7 bed, 7.5 bath mansion
in Westlake for several million dollars, and they're moving downtown. As luck
would have it, the Statesman did an article on them about a month ago. That
bodes well for my neighborhood property values.
Now I'm really interested, Curmit. You've just stated that renting is smarter
than owning. Please show me how I'd do better financially by renting a
similarly sized place (your parent's den does not count), forgoing the
deductable from my mortgage, and investing the difference? Can we assume that
you're renting, or do you not follow your own advice?
Rod Brick
Guilty as charged.
>How can you tell if you're an idiot? If you can't pay off your credit card
>bills every month and think paying 22% interest on your money you paid to
buy
>that gottahave T-bone steak at Ruth Chris's is ok.
How about this one...buy a pepperoni pizza at Dominos for $10 bucks, put it
on your 20% credit card, wait for mortgage rates to drop, refinance your
house and thow on your credit car debt for good measure, pay off that pizza
thusly by amortizing it over the next 30 years.
Corey Huinker
> 5 years has ever made me feel sooo bad and so lonely and such an asshole as
> you. Ok, now, here it is. Hold onto your hats.
> My, name, is: Corey Huinker!
> Yes, I know, same guy. Well, I'm schizoid, so sue me. Or him...or
> Payten..or Biff...or Jose...or Patsy Ramsey....or, well, anyone one of those
> others that just happen to live with me.
(30 lines of Curmit ranting _with herself_ deleted)
Gosh, didn't know I could frustrate you so easily. This is fun. I should do it
more often.
> >I'm happy with my choice. My _walk_ to work is four blocks. My place is
> >nice, and I don't have a lawn to mow (that being said, most of Austin
> >won't have lawns to mow in about two weeks). The property value of the
> >neighborhood is very good, and likely to get better, given that three to
> >five thousand CSC workers will be working four blocks away in just under
> >two years. Even if only 2% of them want to live downtown, that's still
> >enough people to buy this building outright, and that totally disregards
> >any new workers being drawn downtown by Intel or Vignette. I like those
> >odds. My only real fear is that somebody will try to buy out everybody in
> >the building just to plow it under, because then I'd have to move.
>
> ya ya ya.....And just because you buy a Dodge Carvan doesn't make it a Mazda
> MPV.
> I bet when you bought one of those Yugos is was a really good car for you,
> wans't it?
Curmit, you're trying to change the subject. I never mentioned types of cars.
Changing the subject proves to me that you have no interest in backing up your
claims. I have made several statements about the benefits of living where I do,
and you've done nothing to refute them.
> Defending mistakes and bad purchase decisions means you're young. You learn,
> you move on and you strive not to make the same mistakes again.
Curiously, you do not follow your own advice.
> >The neighbors of a former boss of mine are selling their 7 bed, 7.5 bath
> >mansion in Westlake for several million dollars, and they're moving
> >downtown. As luck would have it, the Statesman did an article on them
> >about a month ago. That bodes well for my neighborhood property values.
>
> Most of those dotcomers will lose most of their money when the economy goes
> south. Your boss is a perfect example. He paid way too much for a house by
The AAS website charges for getting articles from the archive, so I don't have a
URL to post here. However, I do believe that the owners built the house back in
the 80s, which means they aren't dotcommers. The former boss bought his
property from the RTC, meaning he's not a dotcommer either.
> the lake. Then to compound the error, he sells a fixed land/house combo by
> the lake, that actually might come back to his buying price in 20 years, to
Again, you assume these houses were bought minutes ago. They were not.
> "invest" his lucky gains into an overpriced downtown condo in a city that is
> falling apart with high taxes that are going higher, decaying infrastructure,
From the sound of the jackhammers, I'd say that the infrastructure is not
decaying.
Would you care to name a city that is _not_ 'falling apart', by your definition
of the term?
> and the only way they can get new business to move here is to give away
> hundreds of millions in free tax breaks which puts the burden on, yup, you
> guesed it...that chump who just bought a downtown condo!
I'm confused as to how these tax breaks affect me more than any other
Austinite. If anything, I'm getting a side benefit. New clients are moving
next door.
> >Now I'm really interested, Curmit. You've just stated that renting is
> >smarter than owning. Please show me how I'd do better financially by
> >renting a similarly sized place (your parent's den does not count),
> >forgoing the deductable from my mortgage, and investing the difference?
> >Can we assume that you're renting, or do you not follow your own advice?
> I own. But renting in a market that is too high to buy a house given your
> income level is smart.
You do not know my income level, so how can you take it as a given?
> Besides, most people have not a clue as to the real/imagined tax consequences
> of owning a house. Not one out 100 can sit down and tell me the real truth
> about the supposed marvelous tax "savings" of owning a house. SMoke and
> mirrors.
This seems to be a common argument of yours. You make statements, give no facts
or figures to back them up, and imply that everyone else is an idiot for not
having this same great wisdom. It's just your own smoke and mirrors. It's
simple. The interest is tax deductable. When there is no more debt, then
you're doing the equivalent of renting for free. If you rent, any taxes are
merely passed on to you in the form of higher rent. If owning a place and
renting it wasn't profitable, then why would anybody build apartments?
> The only time to buy real property is at the bottom of the market, not at
> it's height.
So, you're saying that it made no sense to buy land in Manhattan in 1700, since
the price had already gone up substantially from the $24 in beads the Dutch
supposedly paid?
You seem quite confident that the market is peaking right now. I don't see
that, and I've not seen any data to support that claim. The Downtown Austin
Neighborhood Association sends me emails almost weekly describing what new
building permits were applied for in this area. This region has doubled in
population every twenty years for at least the last 40 years, and that includes
a few busts. Those new people will have to live somewhere, and right now
they're paying more every year for the same sized apartments, whereas my house
payment is fixed.
> Unless you turn your house over every two years to take advantage of the tax
> savings and treat it as a real investment and not as a home, then you should
> never buy in a housing market that is almost at it's hieght.
Maybe I will, maybe I won't. I'll decide in a few years. In all likelihood,
I'll move someplace that isn't as hot, and keep this as a rental. For now,
living downtown works for me, and I didn't pay any more for this place than I
would have paid for a similarly sized place in near-south Austin. I certainly
paid more than a similar amount of space outside the central city would have
cost, but there is no place in Texas outside of central Austin that I'd want to
live.
> It's pretty simple to me...do you want me to go into more depth and explain
> it to you if you don't understand?
I'd LOVE to see real facts and figures out of you. It'd be great if you'd even
stick to the original topic. My assertion was that you didn't need a lot of
money to live downtown, and I backed it up with the selling price of several
units in my neighborhood. You, however, have contributed nothing to the
original argument. It's just more of the "I'm smart, every one else is so
dumb". I realize you hate dotcommers, but surely someone as wise as you would
have forseen their arrival, and bought up as much land as possible, only to sell
it to these johnny-come-latelys, thus exploiting these people you hate so much.
Hell, if you hate them so much, you should sell your place, now that the market
is peaking, and move somewhere where the market is low.
> BTW...nice zinger about me being a cowardly anon poster. It really hurt.
It must have hurt, otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it.