Any reason(s) why all best BBQ beef near Austin?
Richard Lee
Popular Texas BBQ Restaurants in Several Cities by an Out of State
Visitor -or- Where is the best chili in Texas (The Sequel)
Hello Texans. I visited your great state for the first time last summer. On
this winter day in Toronto, I'm reminded of that wonderful time in Texas.
It's been unusually cold and snowy this part of the continent.
Last summer, I toured Texas, almost 2 weeks while attending SIGGRAPH, a
trade show for computer graphics, held in San Antonio that year.
Understanding that chili was the state dish and wanting to taste it where
originated (so must be better there and Texans must know all about it,
right), I initiated a discussion "Where is the best chili in Texas?".
Although cross posted to austin, dwf, sat and houston food/eats groups, I
expected only a few responses. Instead, the partcipation was quite
overwhelming. Many of you might remember.
One of the things I learned from the discussion was that there was actually
a "green" variety of chili popular in west Texas and New Mexico. I got to El
Paso but couldn't find it BTW. Many of you also noted I should try Texas
BBQ, something which I had not considered nor knew about before.
Well, here are the BBQ places I tried in various parts of Texas.
Dallas
a. Sonny Brian's (the one I went to was the original location, west of
downtown, the one that looks like a shack with the school desk and chairs)
San Antonio
b. Bob Miller BBQ (downtown location, across from bus station)
c. some place on the Riverwalk near Planet Hollywood specializing in BBQ,
forgot name of it
Austin
d. The Salt Lick in Driftwood
Note these are all popular restaurants in their respective cities. Houston
did not seem to have a high profile BBQ restaurant - correct me if I missed
something. Some of you recommended restaurants in Driftwood and Lockhard but
made no mention of other cities - seems for good reason (read on). I found
the others on my own.
By far, the best was Salt Lick. It was hard to find (I drove right by it the
first time) but definately turned out to be worth the effort to get there. I
had a sliced beef, ribs and sausage combo plate to try out as many of the
items as possible. The tasty meat melts in your mouth. That sauce is so
rich, thick and flavourful!. The generous portions of side dishes like
pickles and onions are simple but a very nice compliment to the main. The
rustic atmosphere, including the stone BBQ where the cooking is done, adds
to the charm.
It's my understanding there are a few more excellent ones like Kreuze's
Market in another nearby town. Too bad I didn't have the opportunity to get
to them that time. There were a few places right in Austin but the people in
these newsgroups said to go to Driftwood and Lockhart. Austin and Hill
Country was the last area I visited. So the last restaruant I tried was The
Salt Lick. Almost didn't go because of diminished enthusiasm about Texas BBQ
by the end of my trip. Why the reluctance?
Sonny Brian - the beef was flavourless. I had ribs and sliced beef. It
resembles meat that has been boiling for hours with all the juices leached
out. Then this sauce that resembles ketchup is poured on. Bob Miller - the
sauce also resembled ketchup and even more runny. The meat (think I had the
chicken, beef slices and ribs combo) was more flavourful though than
Sonny's. I ordered ribs only at the expensive Riverwalk place. They came
nearly cold and only somewhat tender/flavrourful.
So the thing that puzzles me is why is the best Texas BBQ clustered around
Austin and in small towns.
- Richard Lee
vonroach
wrote:
>Last summer, I toured Texas, almost 2 weeks
>
>So the thing that puzzles me is why is the best Texas BBQ clustered around
>Austin and in small towns.
>
>- Richard Lee
>
Dickie - You have a number of misconceptions. First, `chili' is not a Texas
dish. It probably got its' big boost from railroad restaurants, as a winter time
dish. It is encountered all across the country. There are as many recipes for
`chili as there are cooks brewing a pot of chili. Finals each year are held in
far West Texas Terlingua. You can read an amusing account of the first in a book
by H. Allen Smith - The Great Terlingua Chili Cook-off (or something like that).
Barbecue is an old ranch dish, originally served at special events. Oldest
barbecuers in the world are said to be the Chinese? You got the usual tourist
introduction to barbecue - Lockhart, Austin, etc. Almost every city in Texas has
a barbecue stand. Bigger cities have many more. AfroAmericans often have a
`touch' when it comes to barbecuing. A large barbecue cook-off is in progress
even as we speak at the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, with many elaborate
entries - a three day event. There is excellent barbecue and chili to be had in
Houston, and many competitions for cooks - but to tell you the truth, many of us
are kind of burned out on the whole farce. Barbecue and chili are `braggin'
dishes', ie. everybody has their own personal favorite which has to be `the
greatest on earth'. It's all hype, in the same vein as Toronto claiming the
tallest structure in America for some stupid television tower - who cares? So
if you sampled some chili and barbecue and didn't get sick, that's all there is.
Dusty Rhodes
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:57:06 GMT, "Richard Lee"
> <REMOVE_...@involv.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Last summer, I toured Texas, almost 2 weeks
>>
>> So the thing that puzzles me is why is the best Texas BBQ clustered
>> around Austin and in small towns.
>>
>> - Richard Lee
>>
> Dickie - You have a number of misconceptions.
<snip>
FYI, roachie is a well known net.kook who infests the local Texas groups.
Laugh at him or just ignore him. Everyone else does.
Cheers,
Dusty
Doug
Richard Lee
"Dusty Rhodes" <te...@SPAMMENOTtexas.net> wrote in message
news:Nqd6a.10596$O41.4...@twister.austin.rr.com...
Oh, I'm not offended by him. I remember him from last last summer when he
referred to me as "Dick" and called my questions "tender footed" whatever
that means. In fact, despite his unusual mannerism, he's quite informative.
- Richard Lee
Quadrajet1
b. Bob Miller BBQ (downtown location, across from bus station)
c. some place on the Riverwalk near Planet Hollywood specializing in BBQ,
forgot name of it >>
b: It's Bill Miller's, and it sucks big time.
c: That would be County Line BBQ.
Both have locations in Austin as well. When in San Antonio, try Bob's
Smokehouse. All family owned, and they have 3 locations. Not too bad... The
sausage is pretty bad though.
Raymond
Ex-austinite
> Well, here are the BBQ places I tried in various parts of Texas.
>
> Dallas
> a. Sonny Brian's (the one I went to was the original location, west of
> downtown, the one that looks like a shack with the school desk and chairs)
>
> San Antonio
> b. Bob Miller BBQ (downtown location, across from bus station)
> c. some place on the Riverwalk near Planet Hollywood specializing in BBQ,
> forgot name of it
>
> Austin
> d. The Salt Lick in Driftwood
>
With a sample size of 4, you have drawn a fallacious conclusion, given the
fact that there are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of BBQ joints in
TX.
BILL Millers BBQ is a chain. Not known for terribly good BBQ, but the food
is cheap, relatively wholesome, and fairly consistent (if mediocre). It's
also about the only BBQ chain in San Antonio, which is a city more known for
its Tex Mex than BBQ. Bill Millers' original location was about a mile
from where I grew up in SA. There was a little hole in the wall joint a
couple of miles south which had much better BBQ and especially ribs.
Sonny Brian's is also a chain. When it was a single location the food was
much better. Now that there are 20-some odd locations, the food has gone
downhill. How you can compare Sonny's sauce to Bill Millers', however, is
beyond me. The best thing about Sonny's is the sauce. The meat, as you
state, is pretty generic.
Salt Lick, on the other hand, is a central Texas original, not a chain. Had
you sampled, say, the Austin area chain of Poke-E-Jo's instead of the Salt
Lick, you could easily have drawn the conclusion that there was NO good BBQ
in the state given your sampling method.
I'd take the Iron Works over Salt Lick, but that's personal preference.
DFStoneJr
and Czech immigrants. I don't know how the combination of culture and
cuisine came about, but I'm sure it's not a coincidence that some of the
more famous small-town joints have names such as Kreuze and Mueller, among
others.
In Houston, Goode Company Barbecue on Kirby near U.S. 59, is popular, though
I can't recall being overwhelmed. Clyde Drexler's folks used to, and may
still, run a barbecue place somewhere east of downtown around the Ship
Channel.
Fort Worth legends not mentioned: Angelo's and Railhead.
Marc Stephenson
vonroach <vonr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:57:06 GMT, "Richard Lee" <REMOVE_...@involv.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Last summer, I toured Texas, almost 2 weeks
>>
>>So the thing that puzzles me is why is the best Texas BBQ clustered around
>>Austin and in small towns.
>>
>>- Richard Lee
>>
>Dickie - You have a number of misconceptions. First, `chili' is not a Texas
For what it's worth, chili was proclaimed the "Texas state dish" by the 65th
Texas Legislature in 1977. Doesn't mean that much - there are plenty of
other such designations - http://www.texasalmanac.com/flags.htm and many other
sources.
--
Marc Stephenson IBM Server Group - Austin,TX
T/L: 678-3189
vonroach
wrote:
Junior, your reference to German immigrants is noted. Can you tell me the names
of great barbecue restaurants in Germany -- on second thought just one, any
single even mediocre barbecue restaurant, cafe, or joint in the entire country?
Throw in France -- just a single place? Er... why don't we throw in all of
Europe and the British Isles with the exception of Spain and Middle East?
vonroach
Marc - The Mocking Bird is the State Bird of Texas, but it will shock you so see
a map of the distribution of mocking birds in North America. On the other hand,
if you want to see something reasonably unique, view the blooming of the Blue
Bonnets for a brief period in the spring when they carpet vast stretches of
landscape in blue.
I've yet to visit a State when `chili' was not served here and there. It is
served in NYC and LA, San Francisco to Miami. Actually _chili_ is just the name
of a spicy vegetable that comes in many shapes and `heats; The dish was once
called chili con carne, now shortened to chili, and was just another method of
making some cuts of meat more palatable, the same as fajites (carne asada) the
closer you approach Mexico. Steaks weren't wasted on peons.
You're a nice guy so I'll let you in on another secret - the greatest steaks in
the world come from Midwestern States where calves are sent to fatten before
going to market in places like Omaha, Kansas City, and Chicago.
! fredg
chicago for deep dish pizza, etc etc).
For Beef BBQ, the epicenter is probably Lockhart followed by Elgin, both very
close to Austin, which also boasts several fine Beef BBQ joints. (I emphazise
beef, cuz for pork bbq, memphis and north carolina are more the centers).
-->Subject: Any reason(s) why all best BBQ beef near Austin? -or- Review of
-->Popular Texas BBQ Restaurants in Several Cities by an Out of State
-->Visitor -or- Where is the best chili in Texas (The Sequel).
-->
-->Well, here are the BBQ places I tried in various parts of Texas.
-->
-->Dallas
-->a. Sonny Brian's (the one I went to was the original location, west of
-->downtown, the one that looks like a shack with the school desk and chairs)
-->
-->San Antonio
-->b. Bob Miller BBQ (downtown location, across from bus station)
Thats Bill Miller's, and it is hot regarded very highly around these parts by
afficionado's. -- its more of a fast food lower quality place. Certainly not an
example for judging texas beef bbq!! Its a chain with units also in Austin.
-->c. some place on the Riverwalk near Planet Hollywood specializing in BBQ,
-->forgot name of it
-->
-->Austin
-->d. The Salt Lick in Driftwood
-->
-->Note these are all popular restaurants in their respective cities. Houston
-->did not seem to have a high profile BBQ restaurant - correct me if I missed
-->something.
Goodes' is fairly famous in Houston,, but Im sure there most be far better local
joints.
-->By far, the best was Salt Lick. It was hard to find (I drove right by it the
-->first time) but definately turned out to be worth the effort to get there. I
-->had a sliced beef, ribs and sausage combo plate to try out as many of the
-->items as possible. The tasty meat melts in your mouth. That sauce is so
-->rich, thick and flavourful!. The generous portions of side dishes like
-->pickles and onions are simple but a very nice compliment to the main. The
-->rustic atmosphere, including the stone BBQ where the cooking is done, adds
-->to the charm.
-->
-->It's my understanding there are a few more excellent ones like Kreuze's
-->Market in another nearby town.
Kruez's and Blacks in Lockhart are excellent
Just a few others include SouthSide Market and Elgin Hot Suasage in Elgin, Tx.
-->
-->. I ordered ribs only at the expensive Riverwalk place. They came
-->nearly cold and only somewhat tender/flavrourful.
The San Antonio Riverwalk can be a bit overhyped as a major league tourist
attraction, tho there are some standouts there like Mi Tiera
-->So the thing that puzzles me is why is the best Texas BBQ clustered around
-->Austin and in small towns.
Again, it is more or less THE epicenter.
Hope this helps some.
JLH
-->>>So the thing that puzzles me is why is the best Texas BBQ clustered around
-->>>Austin and in small towns.
-
-->For what it's worth, chili was proclaimed the "Texas state dish" by the 65th
-->Texas Legislature in 1977. Doesn't mean that much - there are plenty of
-->other such designations - http://www.texasalmanac.com/flags.htm and many
other
-->sources.
Richard Lee
"vonroach" <vonr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:l8nk5vobba48jbka5...@4ax.com...
> Junior, your reference to German immigrants is noted. Can you tell me the
names
There is the barbequed sausages in addition to the briskets and so forth.
Isn't frying or baking the traditional preparation method? So something from
the old world was given a new twist and made, in some people's minds,
better. That's the great thing about America (and Canada).
Eric (NW Houston)
If we follow Mr. Roach's logic, a geographic region is not allowed to be
known for a particular cuisine if said cuisine can be found anywhere else
outside that region. So, Philly should not be known for its cheesesteaks.
Chicago should not be known for deep dish pizzas. Boston should not be
known for clam chowder. And heck, I guess Texas should not be known for its
Tex-Mex. This is clear because Mr. Roach could find these foods served
"here and there...in NYC and LA, San Francisco to Miami."
vonroach
>Actually not..."chile" is the name of the "spicy vegetable that comes
>in many shapes and heats"...peppers. "Chili" is the name of the
>combination of spicy "broth" and meat.
I should have mentioned Marc that everyone has a personal definition of `chili',
capitalized or not. It is applied by the Spanish to many members of the pepper
family. Any `broth' found in chili comes from the carne (meat) and inexperience
in preparing chili con carne if it remains as `broth' when the dish is served.
One of the peculiarities of this dish served steaming hot with hot chilies added
is that the cook-offs in Texas are generally held in the hottest season of the
year for this quintessential cold weather dish. A bit akin to `cooling off' with
a steaming hot shower.
vonroach
>Certain regions just have the best of certain things (philly for cheese steak,
>chicago for deep dish pizza, etc etc).
>For Beef BBQ, the epicenter is probably Lockhart followed by Elgin, both very
>close to Austin, which also boasts several fine Beef BBQ joints. (I emphazise
>beef, cuz for pork bbq, memphis and north carolina are more the centers).
Hell hath no fury like a prejudiced Texan faced with the truth. The original
Anglo settlers on Spanish Land Grants prized pork in their central diet meat
since it provided more calories. They were introduced to beef barbecuing by the
native rancheros who drove cattle on their spreads.
vonroach
>The State also officially designated Lockhart the BBQ capital of Texas.
And Pappy O'Daniels the official biscuit baker of Texas (with Light Crust
Flour)? They probably wanted to designate an Oil capital of Texas but the
fields just kept spreading, so they ended up with Houston as the Oil `Business'
capital of Texas. Also the Refining, Marine Commerce, Medical capitals. The
National Aeronautics & Space Agency capital. ...etc. ...etc.
vonroach
wrote:
>There is the barbequed sausages in addition to the briskets and so forth.
>Isn't frying or baking the traditional preparation method? So something from
>the old world was given a new twist and made, in some people's minds,
>better. That's the great thing about America (and Canada).
>
Still waiting for the name of just one middle European barbecue restaurant.
There are many great things about America and even a few about Canada.
But I have to admit, i can't think of much from the old world given a new twist
except individual liberty and private enterprise.
vonroach
>Real BBQ is smoked...the typical brisket can take anywhere from 10 -
>12 hours, depending on its weight. The Germans and Czechs have been
>smoking meats as a means of preservation for centuries (as I'm sure
>other cultures did) before they came to the U.S and central Texas.
>Many of those Germans and Czechs became butchers after immigrating, so
>it was a natural for them to continue the tradition of smoking meats
>here...not so much for the sake of preservation as for taste and
>rendering tough cuts of beef (such as brisket) edible.
Sorry pardner, barbecuing is not a method of `preserving meat'. And has no
definite link to smoking though this can be a bi-product of barbecuing in
various techniques.
Richard Lee
discussion last summer resulting from my first post in these TX food groups
is enough for a year! On to the BBQ.
Gregory Morrow
Professor vonroach wrote:
> Still waiting for the name of just one middle European barbecue
restaurant.
http://www.praguepost.com/P03/2003/resthome.php
Potrefena husa (The Wounded Goose)
Resslova 1,
Prague 2-Nove Mesto.
Tel. 224 918 691.
Restaurant
200-300 Kc.
Continental / International
(The Wounded Goose) A Czech pub a la Soho. Stylish and friendly with good,
hearty food. Very crowded; reservations a must. Recommended: sticky
barbecued pork ribs, soups in bread bowls. Open daily 11:30 a.m.-1 a.m.
AmEx, Euro/MC, Visa.
Glenn
Or course, America hasl 128,000 listings.
Glenn
"Gregory Morrow" <grege...@att.net> wrote in message
news:OzE6a.50489$rq4.4...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
JLH
-->On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:43:14 GMT, "Richard Lee" <REMOVE_...@involv.com>
-->wrote:
-->Still waiting for the name of just one middle European barbecue restaurant.
Mikeska's
JLH
1 - For restaurants, they can't charge as much for chili as they can for BBQ and
probably has a lower profit margin.
2 - Everyone makes chilli at home, not everyone makes true slow smoked BBQ at
home
On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 03:46:01 GMT, "Richard Lee" <REMOVE_...@involv.com>
wrote:
-->Let's not get too carried away with the Chili sub-thread. I think that huge
-->discussion last summer resulting from my first post in these TX food groups
-->is enough for a year! On to the BBQ.
-->
vonroach
>Potrefena husa (The Wounded Goose)
>
>Resslova 1,
>Prague 2-Nove Mesto.
>Tel. 224 918 691.
>
>Restaurant
>200-300 Kc.
>Continental / International
>
>(The Wounded Goose) A Czech pub a la Soho. Stylish and friendly with good,
>hearty food. Very crowded; reservations a must. Recommended: sticky
>barbecued pork ribs, soups in bread bowls. Open daily 11:30 a.m.-1 a.m.
>AmEx, Euro/MC, Visa.
Poland is in eastern Europe, no longer a part of the German-French socialist
axis. Folks in central Texas generally claim Czech or German heritage.
vonroach
>Just did a quick check on Google and they have 114,000 listings in Europe.
>Or course, America hasl 128,000 listings.
>
>Glenn
Not places where they toast, broil,t or boil sausage, Gleno, just 1 barbecue
restaurant. It's simple, a place where they cook beef, pork, chicken, sausage
over an open fire or hot coals in a pit. They don't even have to have beans or
potato salad.
vonroach
Sorry JLH, that in Columbus Texas.
vonroach
>On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:31:16 GMT, vonroach <vonr...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:39:56 GMT, GoodSoldierSvejk <Sv...@zachod.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Actually not..."chile" is the name of the "spicy vegetable that comes
>>>in many shapes and heats"...peppers. "Chili" is the name of the
>>>combination of spicy "broth" and meat.
>>
>>I should have mentioned Marc that everyone has a personal definition of `chili',
>>capitalized or not.
>
>It not just the capitalization; it's the *spelling*. They are two
>different words - note that the vegetable ends in an "E", not an "I".
>
><sigh>
>
>-sw
Steverino, sorry to have to correct you, but `chile' is listed in dictionaries
as a variant of chili. Chile is a country on the southwestern coast of South
America. But be real, everybody understands what `chili' (var. chile) is.
vonroach
wrote:
>That is OK he goes around confused about his opinions
>being correct. The one about hot food, cold weather is
>off the mark too, as most screaming hot dishes are hot
>climate dishes, the peppers and spices facilitating the
>loss of heat from the skin.
>JJ
>
How absurd. Generally wise folks don't eat a lot period when the weather gets
very hot. You must belong to the air conditioning generation.
vonroach
>They promote sweating and a cooling effect on the skin; mandatory in
>some (most) SE asian countries/cuisines. Same as a hot shower on a
>hot day (his other example).
Steverino, you should write a scientific paper and explain this to the folks
that still treat people overcome by heat with an old-fashioned ice bath. How
have you measured skin temperature while eating peppers and taking hot showers
to draw your conclusions? And measured fluid loss from evaporation from the skin
(aka know as insensitive loss)? All this should be very interesting and useful
to people who deal with these problems day in and day out.
vonroach
>2 - Everyone makes chilli at home, not everyone makes true slow smoked BBQ at
>home
Like I said, JLH, everyone has their own personal definition of what `barbecue'
is. You suggest it is _only true_ if cooked `slowly' and `smoked' at home. How
slowly? How smoked? Most serious beef barbecuers have a specific range of meat
temperature measured with a meat thermometer and a time based on experience and
the size of the cut being barbecued. Also weather and particularly humidity is a
factor. The `smoking' is accomplished by any one of several different methods.
The sauce and the method of basting are considered important. Then there is also
the method often favored in Louisiana using a Chinese or Cajun box. Others favor
a good supply of cold beer and letting nature take its course. All pretty
confusing to the novice barbecuer, without even getting into secret additives to
sauce and injecting the meat. Type of wood used to start the bed of coals is
also considered very important by purists - not just any old mixture of
mesquite, oak, hickory, etc. All this without getting into the proper
construction of the pit which may supply direct or indirect heat using a spit or
grill. Plus remember it is illegal on a balcony above the ground floor in
Houston unless some high rise restaurant has bribed somebody. Last tip - if
attempted on the beach, less salt is usually needed and that gritty sensation is
sand.
If we ever finish with beef, we can move on to chicken or fish, etc. which tend
to be even more challenging.
s...@nospam.unt.edu
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:31:49 GMT, "Glenn" <gh11...@nosp.net> wrote:
>>Just did a quick check on Google and they have 114,000 listings in Europe.
>>Or course, America hasl 128,000 listings.
> Not places where they toast, broil,t or boil sausage, Gleno, just 1
> barbecue restaurant. It's simple, a place where they cook beef,
> pork, chicken, sausage over an open fire or hot coals in a pit. They
> don't even have to have beans or potato salad.
Dude, cooking "over an open fire" is grilling, not barbecuing. BBQ
requires indirect heat and lots of smoke. Silly yankee definitions of
"having a BBQ" don't count....
--
Steve Tate - srt[At]cs.unt.edu | "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster
Dept. of Computer Sciences | than any invention in human history with the
University of North Texas | possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."
Denton, TX 76201 | -- Mitch Ratliffe, April 1992
Le Mimic
tells frog to jump.
Frog jumps 2 feet. Man cuts one leg off frog. Frog jumps one foot.
Man cuts other leg off frog and frog doesn't move. Man deduces "aha
just as I thought frog is deaf".
FYI chile peppers, sweet potatoes, avocadoes, tomatoes, chocolate,
peanuts and vanilla were unknown outside of America before Columbus.
Your spin makes no sense. The only thing in common in these coutries
that you have named is the severe depletion of their forests and
depeltion of hardwoods.
Jeremy Goodwin wrote:
>
> You really have very little experience outside your own
> roach motel, please resist the temptation to sound as
> though you have any idea how the rest of the world eats
> until you have at least visited part of it. For once I
> will take pity on your youth and ignorance, and help you
> learn something about hot food. Most of the countries in
> which I have eaten spicy hot food are tropical and sub
> tropical, including but not limited to; Thailand, New
> Guinea, Indonesia, Gambia, Senegal, Spain, Morocco,
> India, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Brunei,
> Mexico, Panama, Belize, Cuba, Honduras, Nicaragua,
> Guatemala, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Jamaica, Guyana,
> Surinam...
> The purpose being often to facilitate cooling during the
> hottest part of the day, allowing the person to sleep in
> ambient temperatures exceeding blood normal.
> JJ
Marc Stephenson
An idea that I had about "spicy" foods in hot climates was that the meat
spoiled more quickly in those environments so the spices were used at least
in part to mask the taste of the spoilage. Just an idea - not necessarily
endorsed by culinary anthropologists.
--
Marc Stephenson IBM Server Group - Austin,TX
T/L: 678-3189
Glenn
I gave you 114,000, with onions.... I'll bet there are a lot more of them
that only grill meat. Cooking over an open fire with or without hot coals
is called grilling, not barbecueing. In Dillenburg Germany they have 47 BBQ
eateries listed. Of course they probably don't serve onions and tator
salad.
Gleno
Steve Wertz
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:33:48 -0500, Steve Wertz <swe...@bs.invalid> wrote:
>
> >They promote sweating and a cooling effect on the skin; mandatory in
> >some (most) SE asian countries/cuisines. Same as a hot shower on a
> >hot day (his other example).
>
> Steverino, you should write a scientific paper and explain this to the folks
> that still treat people overcome by heat with an old-fashioned ice bath.
I wasn't referring to people who are in dire need of medical attention
from being too hot.
Judging from your comments in these threads, you have a habit of
blowing
every comment out of proportion, not to mention your long diatribes
about
nothing in particluar.
Keep up the trolling. I'm plonking this thread because once you get
involved, its just not worth reading.
In the meantime, I suggest you go over to alt.food.barbecue and
explain
to them some of your theories about BBQ.
-sw
Jack Sloan
briquettes...just oak.
"Steve Wertz" <swe...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:d625cb9e.0302...@posting.google.com...
vonroach
>Dude, cooking "over an open fire" is grilling, not barbecuing. BBQ
>requires indirect heat and lots of smoke.
Additional evidence that everyone has the perfect method. A bed of coals is
usually involved in some fashion, but not invariably.
vonroach
>I gave you 114,000, with onions.... I'll bet there are a lot more of them
>that only grill meat. Cooking over an open fire with or without hot coals
>is called grilling, not barbecueing.
A grill is defined as a device for cooking consisting of metal bars or a
gridiron. Beyond that you furnish your own personal information. Just more proof
that everyone has their own method.
> In Dillenburg Germany they have 47 BBQ
>eateries listed. Of course they probably don't serve onions and tator
>salad.
Onions? another personal choice. Perhaps we should ask for the name of one of
the German `BBQ eateries' and have a look at their menu and methods.
>
>Gleno
vonroach
>On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:49:49 GMT, vonroach <vonr...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:38:17 GMT, JLH <cor...@texas.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:52:54 GMT, vonroach <vonr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>-->On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:43:14 GMT, "Richard Lee" <REMOVE_...@involv.com>
>>>-->wrote:
>>>
>>>-->Still waiting for the name of just one middle European barbecue restaurant.
>>>
>>>Mikeska's
>>Sorry JLH, that in Columbus Texas.
>
>Also in El Campo, Temple, and Taylor TX...LOL!!!!
But not in France or Germany. Sounds like a good Bohemian name (Czech) to me,
soldier. Er... you do have some exposure to the geography and differences it
engenders in Eastern Europe I take it. The Germans, Austrians, Czechs, Slovaks,
Poles, Hungarians, etc don't fancy being confused with each other.
vonroach
wrote:
>..
Jerry, you put great faith in very limited experience and perhaps even less
physiological knowledge. The main reason for spicy foods in the places you list
is to make a limited choice of foods palatable. Chili in the South Pacific?
Surely you jest.
vonroach
Stephenson) wrote:
>An idea that I had about "spicy" foods in hot climates was that the meat
>spoiled more quickly in those environments so the spices were used at least
>in part to mask the taste of the spoilage. Just an idea - not necessarily
>endorsed by culinary anthropologists.
>--
>Marc Stephenson
An astute observation that also applies to the ancient world, the medieval
world, and the modern world prior to generally available refrigeration. Some
ancient Greek and Roman recipes will gag you. The peasant of the middle ages did
not dine with the King. Spices have been a rare and valuable commodity that
shaped the history of the world, this includes some mineral products such as
salt. Now you know the real motivation of French chefs and their elaborate
sauces. Dried meat (jerky) also arose from the same need. Details of the diet on
many exploratory ocean voyages and military expeditions are not wholesome.
vonroach
>Keep up the trolling. I'm plonking this thread because once you get
>involved, its just not worth reading.
Hell hath no fury like a barbecuer scorned.
>In the meantime, I suggest you go over to alt.food.barbecue and
>explain
>to them some of your theories about BBQ.
I shudder to even contemplate the morass of superstition and prejudice to be
found in such a group.
K. Collier
hardwoods?
vonroach
> If I were a wagering
>man, I'd bet the farm he hasn't the guts to post in
>alt.food.barbecue...Hehehehe.....
Actually pilgrim, I haven't the time to waste listening to all the personal
`only and best' methods of barbecuing. Lockhart was never worth the drive. At
least the Luling City Market has one of the few clean restrooms in town when on
the road between Houston and San Antonio.
vonroach
>Tell that to the folks in alt.foods.barbecue...I dare you...no, I
>DOUBLE dog dareya...LOL!!!
>
>
>---bohus
Pilgrim, I've already crossposted a short message. My whole point missed by you
is that there are many ways to barbecue, each with its' own advocate. I check in
at houston.eats to learn about restaurants, not somebody's theory of the only
`true path' to perfect barbecue. If barbecue is tasty, juicy, and not cold - I'm
generally satisfied. Same criteria apply to chili. That is my _personal_
opinion. To satisfy your dare, which puzzles me, this is crossposted to
alt.foods.barbecue, I dislike disturbing their pontificating for of your
adolescent amusement.
Dave Bugg
> I shudder to even contemplate the morass of superstition and
> prejudice to be found in such a group.
I'm sure you meant to say "I long to be part of a group where the quest for
authenticate barbecue, the care and teaching of those wanting to persue
barbecue as a serious endeavor, and the repudiation of mediocrity in favor
of the highest standards can be found. Thank you for having such a group"
--
Dave
tecwhiz
of beef. I have aBBQ GRILL and host BBQ's. Had those bozo's tell me to
read the friggin BBQ FAQ. Told em I 've had my grill and bbq events long
before there was a bbq faq. And I use Webster's for my definitions. Not
some hillbilly's :)
"Steve Wertz" <swe...@bs.invalid> wrote in message
news:hk1o5vcdmdkg10uvk...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:51:44 GMT, vonroach <vonr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:31:20 GMT, GoodSoldierSvejk <Sv...@zachod.com>
wrote:
> >
> >> If I were a wagering
> >>man, I'd bet the farm he hasn't the guts to post in
> >>alt.food.barbecue...Hehehehe.....
> >
> >Actually pilgrim, I haven't the time to waste listening to all the
personal
> >`only and best' methods of barbecuing.
>
>
> -sw
>
Eric (NW Houston)
starts misquoting your posts. "Chili in the South Pacific". Come on Mr.
Roach. You have to do better than that.
"vonroach" <vonr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:696o5v838mqhf72i6...@4ax.com...
Richard Lee
"! fredg" <ghi...@aol.net> wrote in message
news:9iik5v4rus9qkc5q6...@4ax.com...
> Again, it is more or less THE epicenter.
>
> Hope this helps some.
Yes, it did. I can hardly wait to find another excuse to visit central
Texas.
Eric (NW Houston)
> Steverino, sorry to have to correct you, but `chile' is listed in
dictionaries
> as a variant of chili. Chile is a country on the southwestern coast of
South
> America. But be real, everybody understands what `chili' (var. chile) is.
Everybody but you. A summary from "The Great Chile Book". _Chile_ is
indeed a country in South America. It also refers to the plant or pod
(jalapeno, habanero, serrano...). _Chili_ refers to the traditional dish
containing meat and spices. And _chilli_ is the commercial spice powder
that contains ground chiles along with a number of other seasonings.
Carey Akin
"Jeremy Goodwin" <jer...@dcnet2000.com.> wrote in message
news:3E5B9233...@dcnet2000.com....
> You really have very little experience outside your own
> roach motel, please resist the temptation to sound as
> though you have any idea how the rest of the world eats
> until you have at least visited part of it. For once I
> will take pity on your youth and ignorance, and help you
> learn something about hot food. Most of the countries in
> which I have eaten spicy hot food are tropical and sub
> tropical, including but not limited to; Thailand, New
> Guinea, Indonesia, Gambia, Senegal, Spain, Morocco,
> India, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Brunei,
> Mexico, Panama, Belize, Cuba, Honduras, Nicaragua,
> Guatemala, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Jamaica, Guyana,
> Surinam...
> The purpose being often to facilitate cooling during the
> hottest part of the day, allowing the person to sleep in
> ambient temperatures exceeding blood normal.
Uhh, the purpose of the spices is to hide the gaminess of the meat,
especially prevalent in warmer climes without the benefit of refrigeration.
A side product is a tastier meal. The reaction to chilis has no measurable
effect on body temperature so far as I know.
Then there is always homeopathic medicine.
Carey in Manvel
vonroach
wrote:
>Uh since when was Saudia Arabia known for its tropical rainforest and
>hardwoods?
>
Who mentioned Saudia Arabia or are you seriously asking a question?
>> Your spin makes no sense. The only thing in common in these coutries
>> that you have named is the severe depletion of their forests and
>> depeltion of hardwoods.
Odd statement, wonder who said it? Has the ring of another phony environmental
wacko.
vonroach
>On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:51:44 GMT, vonroach <vonr...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:31:20 GMT, GoodSoldierSvejk <Sv...@zachod.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If I were a wagering
>>>man, I'd bet the farm he hasn't the guts to post in
>>>alt.food.barbecue...Hehehehe.....
>>
>>Actually pilgrim, I haven't the time to waste listening to all the personal
>>`only and best' methods of barbecuing.
>
>Yet you have the time to serve up your own interpretations?
>
>-sw
Each identified as a personal choice, an often neglected notation in the posts
of the phony `experts'.
vonroach
>Too bad your mind is so closed...such a shame.
Another my way is the only way type.
vonroach
> The reaction to chilis has no measurable
>effect on body temperature so far as I know.
That is I judge an admission that you don't know. It is easy to pontificate.
When you have some careful measurements under controlled conditions, you should
get back to us. Would you have any opinion on the effect of an ice cold beer? It
raises body temperature served at any temperature largely an effect of alcohol,
thus making it an excellent cold weather beverage.
Gregory Morrow
vonroach wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:35:51 GMT, "Glenn" <gh11...@nosp.net> wrote:
>
> >I gave you 114,000, with onions.... I'll bet there are a lot more of
them
> >that only grill meat. Cooking over an open fire with or without hot
coals
> >is called grilling, not barbecueing.
> A grill is defined as a device for cooking consisting of metal bars or a
> gridiron. Beyond that you furnish your own personal information. Just more
proof
> that everyone has their own method.
Lol...Roachie, you never cease to amaze me....you're pretty good.....
[Remembering Roachie's contretemps a whiles back about claiming someone was
anti - semitic because they mentioned about paying "up front" at a Jewish
deli....]
--
Best
Greg
Styles
through the posts on alt.bbq and those guys take it very seriously. There
are detailed technical discussions about the equipment, the meat, the
temperature, the time of day, the time of year, the humidity, spices,
hardwoods, custom charcoals, its mind boggling.
But one thing I have learned from both the alt.bbq and from reading, its
that BBQ, in its original definition means slow cooking meat over indirect
heat. When you are cooking over a standard weber-type grill and making
steaks for example, that is actually grilling.
Both BBQ and Grilling styles of cooking exist throughout the world. Of
course in many different flavors and methods.
On 2/26/03 6:23 AM, in article 79cp5vc9p7t4vr63k...@4ax.com,
"Steve Wertz" <swe...@bs.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:33:26 -0600, "tecwhiz" <tec...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> the bbq group sounds like a bunch of rednecks who can't afford a quality cut
>> of beef. I have aBBQ GRILL and host BBQ's. Had those bozo's tell me to
>> read the friggin BBQ FAQ. Told em I 've had my grill and bbq events long
>> before there was a bbq faq. And I use Webster's for my definitions. Not
>> some hillbilly's :)
>
> Hate to break it to you, but most of the people on a.f.b. spent more
> money on their BBQ apparatus than you did on your car.
>
> -sw
>
JBR
Steve Wertz wrote:
>
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:33:26 -0600, "tecwhiz" <tec...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >the bbq group sounds like a bunch of rednecks who can't afford a quality cut
> >of beef. I have aBBQ GRILL and host BBQ's. Had those bozo's tell me to
> >read the friggin BBQ FAQ. Told em I 've had my grill and bbq events long
> >before there was a bbq faq. And I use Webster's for my definitions. Not
> >some hillbilly's :)
>
> Hate to break it to you, but most of the people on a.f.b. spent more
> money on their BBQ apparatus than you did on your car.
>
> -sw
Stupid barbecuers spent more money on the barbies and still can't get
around. Yet I bought an economy car and can travel far and wide without
wasting gas. Those barbecuers sound like those stupid soccer moms who
buy huge navigators and suv's, but their kids still suck at soccer.
Instead of buying a barbecue to hide the taste of a rotten piece of
meat. I bought a choice cut of steak that doesn't have to be dosed with
smoke and sauce to make it palatable. The steak was free of hormones
and antibiotics. When will you hillbillies and rednecks ever learn, the
size of your barbecue and your SUV will not make you any more important,
nor will the quantity of your posts.
Jack Curry
Whoops! I think you meant to post your thoughts on alt.confused.dumbasses.
I suggest you a) go away fast and do not return here, or b) get your
asbestos suit out, 'cause you're about to face the fire.
Gonna be fun to watch; there are some amazingly gifted flamers here and none
appreciate being told that our passion for cooking great barbacue is to
"hide the taste of a rotten piece of meat." See ya on the grill, dude.
Jack Curry
Bill
Jack Curry wrote:
>
> Whoops! I think you meant to post your thoughts on alt.confused.dumbasses.
> I suggest you a) go away fast and do not return here, or b) get your
> asbestos suit out, 'cause you're about to face the fire.
> Gonna be fun to watch; there are some amazingly gifted flamers here and none
> appreciate being told that our passion for cooking great barbacue is to
> "hide the taste of a rotten piece of meat." See ya on the grill, dude.
> Jack Curry
Hey Jack,
I think we had better give this guy a break and as much help as we can. He
showed up here because he was told on alt.food.canabalism that shit tastes like
shit irreguardless of how its prepared.
Bill
Le Mimic
The correct spelling is irregardless, without the the "U" is akin to
speaking like a dittohead
of the Shrub declension. Did you go to Yale and Harvard too? Even
money can't by a good
education even though it can buy an election.
Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be
correct
usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in
nonstandard speech or
casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th
century, it has met
with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of
irrespective and
regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the
negative ir- prefix and
-less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably
argue that it is no
different from words with redundant affixes like debone and
unravel, it has been
considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be
so.
I would have to agree with JB who posted:
>Stupid barbecuers spent more money on the barbies and still can't get
>around. Yet I bought an economy car and can travel far and wide without
>wasting gas. Those barbecuers sound like those stupid soccer moms who
>buy huge navigators and suv's, but their kids still suck at soccer.
>Instead of buying a barbecue to hide the taste of a rotten piece of
>meat. I bought a choice cut of steak that doesn't have to be dosed with
>smoke and sauce to make it palatable. The steak was free of hormones
>and antibiotics. When will you hillbillies and rednecks ever learn, the
>size of your barbecue and your SUV will not make you any more important,
>nor will the quantity of your posts.
In summary, hillbilly bbqers can mangle the English language as well as
"hide the taste of a rotten piece of meat" by dousing it with smoke and
sauce"
Jack Curry
> In summary, hillbilly bbqers can mangle the English language as well
> as "hide the taste of a rotten piece of meat" by dousing it with
> smoke and sauce"
I wonder, Monsieur Literati, if you eat prosciutto or bacon or corned beef
or pastrami? All from what you would probably consider "a rotten piece of
meat," eh? Did you too wander in here from alt.confused.dumbass?
What is it with you simpletons that prevents you from understanding that
proper preparation makes otherwise inedible foods into gourmet meals? Ever
eat a raw olive? Whydontcha.
Jack Curry
Le Mimic
And the converse is true --- BBQ'ing can turn an otherwise choice cut of
meat into an
otherwise inedible piece of smoky slop and sauce (no matter how much the
BBQ cost).
It shouldn't be that hard for a hillbilly to understand, but it is. Oh,
the paradox, the paradox.
Bill
Le Mimic wrote:
> Bill the COPROPHAGE wrote:
>
Correct capitalization would suggest that only the C in coprophage should be
capitalized.
Cuchulain Libby
"Le Mimic" <mi...@nospam.com> wrote >
> I would have to agree with JB who posted:
> "hide the taste of a rotten piece of meat" by dousing it with smoke and
> sauce"
And you would both be wrong and, apparently, Liberal. Redundant I realize
but there it is.
-Hound
James Lee Johnson
> Still waiting for the name of just one middle European barbecue
restaurant.
> There are many great things about America and even a few about Canada.
> But I have to admit, i can't think of much from the old world given a new
twist
> except individual liberty and private enterprise.
Think harder. Just about everything American is old world given a new
twist. I've read this thread through 2/26/03 and I can't figure out what
points you are trying to make. You might try substituting quality postings
for quantity and focus on making your point and not being so slippery.
The original poster mentioned the influence of German *immigrants* on
central Texas BBQ, not the influence of European restaurants.
On the BBQ quality scale this entire thread is a train load of McRib
sandwiches with a few servings of Bill Miller brisket thrown in here and
there.
jj
Jack Curry
>
> -sw
Yep, you do Steve. And this time, I gotta agree with you and Esk. Ignorant
troll(s), best ignored.
Jack
Jack Sloan
> sandwiches with a few servings of Bill Miller brisket thrown in here and
> there.
>
> jj
>
vonroach
>Hate to break it to you, but most of the people on a.f.b. spent more
>money on their BBQ apparatus than you did on your car.
Stevereno, often the very people who spend the most money on their car, hire
others to drive them. Money does not equate with knowledge.
Dave Bugg
> Yep, you do Steve. And this time, I gotta agree with you and Esk.
> Ignorant troll(s), best ignored.
<In a pleading voice> Can't we keep him, pleeeeze??? He's so cute and fun
to slap around.... I promise to take good care of him... Pleazzzze???
--
Dave
vonroach
>I have to agree with Steve on this one, I have spent some time sifting
>through the posts on alt.bbq and those guys take it very seriously. There
>are detailed technical discussions about the equipment, the meat, the
>temperature, the time of day, the time of year, the humidity, spices,
>hardwoods, custom charcoals, its mind boggling.
>
>But one thing I have learned from both the alt.bbq and from reading, its
>that BBQ, in its original definition means slow cooking meat over indirect
>heat. When you are cooking over a standard weber-type grill and making
>steaks for example, that is actually grilling.
>
>Both BBQ and Grilling styles of cooking exist throughout the world. Of
>course in many different flavors and methods.
Then finally, you agree with my basic point, that there are many techniques and
no one's is the perfect one for everybody. Now that your eyes are opened, try
explaining that to a barbecuer biased toward a single technique.
Incidentally, your `definition' of the meaning of `barbecue' doesn't coincide
with that usually provided by a dictionary. Your definition is strictly a
regional one. A regional speech or dialect, an idiomatic expression - while you
are studying `barbecuing' and `grilling', you should also look up roasting,
broiling, and perhaps even frying - these techniques shouldn't be confused with
boiling. Also `smoking' and `barbecuing' don't refer to the exact same
technique.
There are many different ways to play golf, no one except perhaps Tiger Woods
approaches the perfect way at present.
vonroach
>Stupid barbecuers spent more money on the barbies and still can't get
>around. Yet I bought an economy car and can travel far and wide without
>wasting gas. Those barbecuers sound like those stupid soccer moms who
>buy huge navigators and suv's, but their kids still suck at soccer.
>Instead of buying a barbecue to hide the taste of a rotten piece of
>meat. I bought a choice cut of steak that doesn't have to be dosed with
>smoke and sauce to make it palatable. The steak was free of hormones
>and antibiotics. When will you hillbillies and rednecks ever learn, the
>size of your barbecue and your SUV will not make you any more important,
>nor will the quantity of your posts.
Actually JBR, many barbecuers have pits constructed by ant one of several
techniques on solid ground. Almost all serious commercial operators have this.
You are talking about a small cadre of fellows and gals who l;ike to travel
around and compete by their own local rules- a recreational activity.
vonroach
>Whoops! I think you meant to post your thoughts on alt.confused.dumbasses.
>I suggest you a) go away fast and do not return here, or b) get your
>asbestos suit out, 'cause you're about to face the fire.
>Gonna be fun to watch; there are some amazingly gifted flamers here and none
>appreciate being told that our passion for cooking great barbacue is to
>"hide the taste of a rotten piece of meat." See ya on the grill, dude.
>Jack Curry
Reiterating - Hell hath no fury like a hobbyist scorned.
vonroach
>I think we had better give this guy a break and as much help as we can. He
>showed up here because he was told on alt.food.canabalism that shit tastes like
>shit irreguardless of how its prepared.
>
>Bill
Unfortunately Billy, the same can't be said of barbecue.
vonroach
Jack, `La Mimic' is a troller. You have the hook in your mouth.
>
>
vonroach
>Correct capitalization would suggest that only the C in coprophage should be
>capitalized.
Why? are you unaware that it is a fairly widespread occurence in the animal
kingdom?
vonroach
> ignorant troll.
Isn't that an oxymoron?
Monroe, of course...
wrote:
> And the converse is true --- BBQ'ing can turn an otherwise choice cut of
> meat into an
> otherwise inedible piece of smoky slop and sauce (no matter how much the
> BBQ cost).
> It shouldn't be that hard for a hillbilly to understand, but it is. Oh,
> the paradox, the paradox.
Hmm,mee-meeq - yer grasp o the obvious is asboflutely astoundin-But you
no doubt can effup many diff foods with many diff cooking tek-neeqs
yerself,no?
And elucidations of these many catastrophes will serve we hillbillies
to what end?
Seems you might do like the smoke even if its not a part of the food
prep, yes?
And converses are also tennis shoes,maybe?
And now to make with the squealink as of the peeg?
And why is this gramonga crossposted to hellandback?
monroe(iblamewertzy)
BOB
"Dave Bugg" <dbuggatcharterdotnet> wrote in message
news:v5qj87t...@corp.supernews.com...
BOB
no, you didn't cause me to do any damage...all the liquids were emptied from the glasses
earlier. It's time for a refill, though.
B
James Lee Johnson
First off I want to say thanks for your nice words and that if you enjoyed
visiting San Antonio in summer, you should really visit sometime in winter.
Well ... not this winter. We have been iced in by a freak sleet storm you
guys sent our way. Usually summer is the most unpleasant season in the San
Antonio area because of the high humidity. Winter days there can be
glorious, spring and fall are similarly very pleasant, although rainstorms
can come at any time.
You mused:
>So the thing that puzzles me is why is the best Texas BBQ clustered around
>Austin and in small towns.
One historical answer is that Czech and German butchers slow cooked beef
that hadn't sold. They adapted techniques from Mexican, Afro-American, and
other sources, and developed a new tradition. A modern answer is that
central Texans support the independent BBQ restaurants ("BBQ joints") and
that the competition is healthy. It's worth noting that the central Texas
BBQ beef belt is huge, ranging probably from up north near the city of West
down well past Lockhart and westward over at least to Llano.
Kreuz Market in Lockhart is a hoot to visit. Basically they serve meat and
crackers. BBQ sauce is frowned upon. It is very different from the Salt
Lick in Driftwood, where the sides are an enjoyable part of the meal and the
desserts are very good. Yet they are two of my favorites. The Salt Lick is
a more practical place to take visitors and it is closer to Austin where I
live.
I like many styles of BBQ including Southern which is typified by the
shredded pork sandwich. I'm a bit more picky about BBQ sauces. I don't
care for super sweet sauces. The Salt Lick sauce is as sweet as I like. On
the other hand I don't like sauces with liquid smoke. It upsets my stomach
and the smoke flavor can be overpowering.
I agree with another poster, chain restaurants seldom represent the best
quality. I'm sure that good BBQ can be found in the bigger Texas cities,
but locating it might be a research project. In particular the DFW
metroplex has a suburban culture. Even if there is a local favorite BBQ
joint you might not find out about it. Calvin Trillin wrote about the
struggles of locating the best local restaurants in the hilarious "American
Fried, Adventures of a Happy Eater". When a restaurant is recommended "Its
name will be something like La Maison de la Casa House" and it will be
"almost certainly not worth eating in."
Finally, I suspect the best BBQ joints in Houston would tend to be Southern
in style. Likely some of the best are run by Afro-Americans. Houston is a
cosmopolitan city, but it is located in "the South", not the West.
If you visit Central Texas again, drop me a note. I'll be glad to share any
information I have.
jj
Le Mimic
Steve Wertz wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:38:10 GMT, JBR <J...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> Heh. Do I get a finders fee for this one? ;-)
>
> -sw
Do you have a paypal account?
Albert Nurick
news:BFe7a.3481$Wl3.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net:
< interesting comments snipped >
> Finally, I suspect the best BBQ joints in Houston would tend to be
> Southern in style. Likely some of the best are run by Afro-Americans.
> Houston is a cosmopolitan city, but it is located in "the South", not
> the West.
Houston is located in Texas, which is (IMO) culturally quite different from
both the South and the West.
--
Albert Nurick www.TheDeliciousLife.com
alb...@nurick.com A guide to the good life
www.nurick.com in Houston, Texas
JLH
Bruce
> One of the things I learned from the discussion was that there was actually
> a "green" variety of chili popular in west Texas and New Mexico. I got to El
> Paso but couldn't find it BTW.
There's a green variety--no, there are several green varieties--of
chiles popular in west Texas and New Mexico, notably those grown in
the Rio Grande valley around Hatch, New Mexico. When I lived in El
Paso I found no good restaurants specializing in chili but plenty of
places using Hatch chiles.
My particular recommendations would be the green chile chicken
enchiladas at the L&J Cafe on Missouri Street, across from the
graveyard, where the politicos hang out; a green chile on top of a
steak at Great American Land & Cattle in Vinton, west of town along
I-10; and the green chile & cheese tamales at Gussie's Bakery on
Piedras Street. I don't recommend the chili.
Regards,
Bruce
s...@nospam.unt.edu
I've been in that area a few times, but never for a long stay. I
didn't find anything that I would call "green chile" in the New Mexico
sense in El Paso (yes, they use the pods in things, but I didn't see
the actual strong green chile sauce that I associate with New Mexico).
However, when we headed up to Carlsbad there was lots of great stuff --
a place in the downtown part of Carlsbad called Lucy's was
particularly memorable!
--
Steve Tate - srt[At]cs.unt.edu | "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster
Dept. of Computer Sciences | than any invention in human history with the
University of North Texas | possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."
Denton, TX 76201 | -- Mitch Ratliffe, April 1992
tecwhiz
"Steve Wertz" <swe...@bs.invalid> wrote in message
news:79cp5vc9p7t4vr63k...@4ax.com...
tecwhiz
palatable. Prob why so many rednecks and hillbillies use the method.
"Jack Curry" <jack...@nos.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kW57a.42690$163.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> JBR wrote:
> > Steve Wertz wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:33:26 -0600, "tecwhiz" <tec...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> the bbq group sounds like a bunch of rednecks who can't afford a
> >>> quality cut of beef. I have aBBQ GRILL and host BBQ's. Had those
> >>> bozo's tell me to read the friggin BBQ FAQ. Told em I 've had my
> >>> grill and bbq events long before there was a bbq faq. And I use
> >>> Webster's for my definitions. Not some hillbilly's :)
> >>
> >> Hate to break it to you, but most of the people on a.f.b. spent more
> >> money on their BBQ apparatus than you did on your car.
> >>
> >> -sw
> >
> > around. Yet I bought an economy car and can travel far and wide
> > without wasting gas. Those barbecuers sound like those stupid soccer
> > moms who buy huge navigators and suv's, but their kids still suck at
> > soccer. Instead of buying a barbecue to hide the taste of a rotten
> > piece of meat. I bought a choice cut of steak that doesn't have to
> > be dosed with smoke and sauce to make it palatable. The steak was
> > free of hormones and antibiotics. When will you hillbillies and
> > rednecks ever learn, the size of your barbecue and your SUV will not
> > make you any more important, nor will the quantity of your posts.
>
tecwhiz
host a BBQ and use the BBQ grills!news:787o5v4t9nlq3ldil...@4ax.com...
> On 25 Feb 2003 10:55:28 -0800, swe...@austin.rr.com (Steve Wertz) wrote:
>
> >Keep up the trolling. I'm plonking this thread because once you get
> >involved, its just not worth reading.
>
> Hell hath no fury like a barbecuer scorned.
>
> >In the meantime, I suggest you go over to alt.food.barbecue and
> >explain
> >to them some of your theories about BBQ.
>
> I shudder to even contemplate the morass of superstition and prejudice to
be
> found in such a group.
tecwhiz
shoulder or any of that stuff anyday!
"Le Mimic" <mi...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3E5D0ED3...@nospam.com...
>
>
> Jack Curry wrote:
> >
> > Lots of useless crap snipped which was written by "Le Mimic"
> >
> > > In summary, hillbilly bbqers can mangle the English language as well
> > > as "hide the taste of a rotten piece of meat" by dousing it with
> > > smoke and sauce"
> >
> > I wonder, Monsieur Literati, if you eat prosciutto or bacon or corned
beef
> > or pastrami? All from what you would probably consider "a rotten piece
of
> > meat," eh? Did you too wander in here from alt.confused.dumbass?
> > What is it with you simpletons that prevents you from understanding that
> > proper preparation makes otherwise inedible foods into gourmet meals?
Ever
> > eat a raw olive? Whydontcha.
> > Jack Curry
>
tecwhiz
noun (plural bar搓e搾ues)
1. equipment for cooking outdoors: an apparatus, including a grill and
fuel, used for cooking food outdoors
2. outdoor party with food cooked outdoors: an outdoor party where
people eat food cooked on a grill
3. food cooked on grill: food, especially meat, poultry, and fish,
cooked on a grill
transitive verb (past bar搓e搾ued, past participle bar搓e搾ued,
present participle bar搓e搾u搏ng, 3rd person present singular bar搓e搾ues)
cook food on grill outdoors: to cook food on a grill outdoors
[Mid-17th century. From American Spanish barbacoa , of uncertain
origin, probably from Arawak barbakoa frame of sticks. Current senses
evolved from the practice of drying or smoking meat on a wooden frame.]
"Styles" <sty...@styles.com> wrote in message
news:BA8223B5.1A86A%sty...@styles.com...
> I have to agree with Steve on this one, I have spent some time sifting
> through the posts on alt.bbq and those guys take it very seriously.
There
> are detailed technical discussions about the equipment, the meat, the
> temperature, the time of day, the time of year, the humidity, spices,
> hardwoods, custom charcoals, its mind boggling.
>
> But one thing I have learned from both the alt.bbq and from reading, its
> that BBQ, in its original definition means slow cooking meat over indirect
> heat. When you are cooking over a standard weber-type grill and making
> steaks for example, that is actually grilling.
>
> Both BBQ and Grilling styles of cooking exist throughout the world. Of
> course in many different flavors and methods.
>
>
> On 2/26/03 6:23 AM, in article 79cp5vc9p7t4vr63k...@4ax.com,
Jack Curry
OKEYDOKEY (in big print for the dumbass) NOW FOR MY NEW POLICY.
PLONK.
That felt pretty good. Kinda like swattin' a mosquito fulla blood. Splat,
there's some payback.
Jack (goodbye, numbnuts!) Curry
tecwhiz
"Steve Wertz" <swe...@bs.invalid> wrote in message
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:34:39 -0600, "tecwhiz" <tec...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >That what smoking and slow cooking are all about. making poor custs more
> >palatable. Prob why so many rednecks and hillbillies use the method.
>
> since. Apparently he still hasn't seen the light, or learndt(*) to
> spell better either.
>
> Heck. I'd been whining myself in/out of rec.food.cooking for over a
> decade before I graduated to a.f.b, too.
>
> You'll understand when you're older, TW.
>
> -sw
>
> (*)Poetic License
>
tecwhiz
"Steve Wertz" <swe...@bs.invalid> wrote in message
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:31:15 -0600, "tecwhiz" <tec...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >So my c-5 roadster didn't cost as much as my DCS or weber or banadera.
>
> them properly, then you probably don't own them either.
>
> I'll give you $.03 for that fake attempt of bravado, though. Better
> luck next time.
>
> -sw
>
tecwhiz
"Steve Wertz" <swe...@bs.invalid> wrote in message
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:28:13 -0600, "tecwhiz" <tec...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > a typo, you lemming.
>
> Uh. 6 typos. Not to mention punctuation and grammar.
>
> -sw
New Smoker
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO TEXAS???
When I was hitchin' around down there, back in the early '70s, everyone
I met was courteous, generous, tolerant, humble, hospitable &
good-humored ('cept for a few desert drunks, and a couple o' Houston
peace officers). Real people, in other words - decent people, who were
kinder to me than this long-haired, bell-bottomed hippie-freak ever
could have expected. Houston, Amarillo, Dallas, Nacadogches, Austin,
all over.
I've had a soft spot in my heart for the people of Texas that has
stayed warm for 30 years.
But what's this smell wafting up from Houston, Austin, D/FW? It's not
steaks on the grill, it's not barbecue - and it sure aint
hospitality!!! Seems more like the cold, bloodless liberal elitism
that's typical of cold, bloodless places like Washington, New York, and
Boston: condescending, mean-spirited, spiteful - much like the
'rednecks' they imagine others to be, but with a veneer of smugness.
The smugness comes from knowing they can't be accused of racism or
sexism because they're only slamming white men (anyone want to take
bets on the demographic cross-section that's hatching these "Texans"?),
but their confidence in their own superiority is misplaced: as Martin
Luther King said, 'it's not the color of our skins but the content of
our characters' (that's a paraphrase, not a quote - for the attack-dog
academics).
These new-age carpetbaggers seem compelled not only to show their
asses, but to demonstrate beyond the shadow of a doubt that their
characters hold very little content of any kind.
If these "Texans" just HAVE to mix it up w/ somebody, I suggest they
either take on their neighbors (who may well decide to teach them some
manners), or move back to Bensonhurst & buy new bats.
...Damn - and here I was, doin' just fine as a lurker....
--
It's not the sauce, it's the smoke....
Mike
MTV
mentality of working 24/7 to get ahead plus all the road construction.
Marv
New Smoker wrote:
> [ This whole thread snipped for decency's sake ]
>
> WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO TEXAS???
>
> When I was hitchin' around down there, back in the early '70s, everyone
> I met was courteous, generous, tolerant, humble, hospitable &
> good-humored ('cept for a few desert drunks, and a couple o' Houston
> peace officers). Real people, in other words - decent people, who were
> kinder to me than this long-haired, bell-bottomed hippie-freak ever
> could have expected. Houston, Amarillo, Dallas, Nacadogches, Austin,
> all over.
>
> I've had a soft spot in my heart for the people of Texas that has
> stayed warm for 30 years.
>
> But what's this smell wafting up from Houston, Austin, D/FW? It's not
> steaks on the grill, it's not barbecue - and it sure aint
> hospitality!!! Seems more like the cold, bloodless liberal elitism
> that's typical of cold, bloodless places like Washington, New York, and
> Boston: condescending, mean-spirited, spiteful -
<snip>
Becca
"Liberal elitism", in Texas? LMAO! You are cracking me up.
Becca