> Attention : Current Members of Operations Branch Involved in this > Discussion.
> This line of conversation is inappropriate for this forum and shall cease > immediately.
> Should members wish to discuss this further, I suggest they make appropriate > comments as per their Chain of Command.
> Gordon ALLAN > Divisional Superintendent > Whitehorse Combined Division
> "Cathy" <Cathy_Guy...@bigpond.com> wrote in message > news:uvih8.28$uR5.447@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... > > Salams to all, > > Just to let you all know I won't be getting overalls coz the divsion has > > sorta got no money at the moment. So I will be refusing to do "overall > > duties" til further notice.
> > > Even as a Volunteer, the organization as a duty of care to provide the > > > correct PPE to individuals, if there is an incident both the individual > > and > > > the supervisor are responsible, in this case it would be you, the OIC of > > the > > > duty and the DO or Supt. you are totally correct in not attending with > > out > > > overalls for example.
> > > If you can't get anywhere with your DO, DON or Supt, maybe its time to > > seek > > > out the District Officer. Because ultimately it's their bum that the > > > Commissioner will kick if you are injured on a duty because of lack of > > PPE.
But in a public discussion forum, such as this, the newsgroup rules apply, not some rules you have come up with based on you own self interest, at no stage has St John banned members from free and open discussion with their peers. Disclosure to media is to be through the appropriate chain of command, but to my knowledge this discussion group is not a media enterprise.
Any member of St John who has a conflict with a superior officer has the right to seek advice from a district officer, cadets included.
I am no longer a member of St John Operations, and it was people playing politics like this that made me decide to resign my commission.
My advise to you sir, would be to spend your energies on running your division and resolving conflict rather than spouting off in a newsgroup, offending all and sundry and generally causing conflict.
Craig Large
"Gordon ALLAN" <atoms...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
<atoms...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: >Attention : Current Members of Operations Branch Involved in this >Discussion.
>This line of conversation is inappropriate for this forum and shall cease >immediately.
>Should members wish to discuss this further, I suggest they make appropriate >comments as per their Chain of Command.
>Gordon ALLAN >Divisional Superintendent >Whitehorse Combined Division
Dear Gordon,
Given that I think that in normal times you are probably a sane and generally nice guy, as are most of the SJA Operations Branch types that I have dealings with, and not one of the infrequent pompous, self opinionated, generally long winded people we HAVE to deal with at times, I would ask you to reconsider the manner in which you "suggest" the discontinuation of this tread.
Your directive, from a "Divisional Superintendent", suggests that you have had a brain fart!!!
What were you thinking??? <tap tap tap on your head>
Are you intent on continuing the idea that in EVERY volunteer service there are a few people who allow their high opinion of themselves to rule the side of their brain that controls reason and respect.
Maybe your comments should be recinded with an apology as soon as possible.
Perhaps a short note advising that a more appropriate process, or a comment relating to the general difficulties of Ops Branch Divisions in relation to fund raising may have been a more appropriate in this forum of emergency service personnell and those who support them.
Yup, it is people like you who are forcing me to reduce my involvement with SJA, and focus on my real job as a paid officer in the Ambulance service.
Dear Gordon ALLAN, Divisional Superintendent, Whitehorse Combined Division, What a great example of tolerance and rapour you demonstrate.... (I have to stop before I puke). All you have done is bring you, your Division, and your position into disprepute.... But it is a good thing that a lot of the readers in this forum have the ability to apply the dickhead filter.
From,
One pissed off member who has worked for years to rid SJA of anachronistic non communicative people (unlike you)
>"Cathy" <Cathy_Guy...@bigpond.com> wrote in message >news:uvih8.28$uR5.447@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... >> Salams to all, >> Just to let you all know I won't be getting overalls coz the divsion has >> sorta got no money at the moment. So I will be refusing to do "overall >> duties" til further notice.
>> M'asalama >> Cathy
As is your choice Cathy. I too did this years ago, and others followed. Lo' and behold, overalls appeared.. It is hard to staff duties with no staff!!!
You go girl!!
And Craig, a well structured response!!! Pity others cannot be so reasoned, or not take the post as a personal attack :))
>> > Even as a Volunteer, the organization as a duty of care to provide the >> > correct PPE to individuals, if there is an incident both the individual >> and >> > the supervisor are responsible, in this case it would be you, the OIC of >> the >> > duty and the DO or Supt. you are totally correct in not attending with >> out >> > overalls for example.
>> > If you can't get anywhere with your DO, DON or Supt, maybe its time to >> seek >> > out the District Officer. Because ultimately it's their bum that the >> > Commissioner will kick if you are injured on a duty because of lack of >> PPE.
Can I be a little bit more blunt towards Gordon ALLAN..........
Tosser..........
I see no issue of national security or a serious effect on operational status if a member discusses issues pertaining to uniform issue on a public forum.
Please point your ego towards the nearest freight exit. Why not politely contact members concerned directly via return email off this newsgroup? Stop trying to advertise / big note your position within your organisation.
There are certain ways to go about things............you failed. Publicly I might add and as such so has your representation of your organisation.
<atoms...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: >Attention : Current Members of Operations Branch Involved in this >Discussion.
>This line of conversation is inappropriate for this forum and shall cease >immediately.
>Should members wish to discuss this further, I suggest they make appropriate >comments as per their Chain of Command.
>Gordon ALLAN >Divisional Superintendent >Whitehorse Combined Division
>"Cathy" <Cathy_Guy...@bigpond.com> wrote in message >news:uvih8.28$uR5.447@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... >> Salams to all, >> Just to let you all know I won't be getting overalls coz the divsion has >> sorta got no money at the moment. So I will be refusing to do "overall >> duties" til further notice.
>> > Even as a Volunteer, the organization as a duty of care to provide the >> > correct PPE to individuals, if there is an incident both the individual >> and >> > the supervisor are responsible, in this case it would be you, the OIC of >> the >> > duty and the DO or Supt. you are totally correct in not attending with >> out >> > overalls for example.
>> > If you can't get anywhere with your DO, DON or Supt, maybe its time to >> seek >> > out the District Officer. Because ultimately it's their bum that the >> > Commissioner will kick if you are injured on a duty because of lack of >> PPE.
>> > Cheers >> > Craig
Having just checked my GPS I have found that I am living in Australia not some eastern european country with a military regime, and have come to the conclusion that freedom of speech is still allowed here at the moment. Rourkster
Gordon Allan or is it Hitler shows the typical attitude of the way some St John "Cheifs" treat their volunteers. They think they run our lives, even when not on duties.
Remember Gordon, if we didn't volunteer, you'll have know one to boss around. Your comments show St John in a bad light Not the members who choose to discuss matters. WANKER
Gordon, Whilst I appreciate your concerns that the current discussion may bring bad light upon an orgasnisation, I am also worried that you find it more important to stifle conversation than to supply PPE.
PPE (Overalls, Gloves, Footwear, Eyewear, etc) is not a "nice to have", but essential. At one level, it simply shows respect for your volunteers and concern about their safety.
At the more serious end of the scale, your legal obligations are clear. Any employer (and that includes those of volunteers) who fails to provide adequate personal protective equipment is guilty of gross negligence. Just because you're a charity, or a volunteer organisation, doesn't remove you from your legal obligations to ensure a safe workplace - nor does it protect you from legal action (private & government) should an incident occur.
I can empathise with the situation if your organisation is unable to afford PPE for their members. Many volunteer emergency service organisations are in a similar position, however from my experience they all make a concerted effort to ensure this most basic level of equipment is provided. Perhaps you need to put off those one or two “big ticket” items and simply buy the overalls. Fundraise, or seek Government assistance.
For a large, national (international?) organisation to expect their local volunteers, who volunteer their time for training and operational events, to then go out & fundraise is – to me – wrong. These volunteers signed up for training, for providing first aid, for attending sporting and other events, not to be a bucket brigade.
At no stage should a volunteer be placed in a potentially dangerous situation due to lack of supply of PPE, and at no stage should a volunteer have to dip into their own pocket to purchase their own PPE.
As you’re obviously in a position of power within the organisation, please raise this matter with your peers & chain of command, and ensure that the provision of adequate PPE receives the priority it should.
Finally, please note also that the original poster, whom you chose to come down upon, was not the one who identified the organisation in question – she was merely asking neutral advice.
Cheers, Andrew.
-- Andrew Hennell ------------------------ Australian Emergency Services Volunteers Network - founder. www.aesvn.org
No wonder St John is viewed as a bunch of halfwits throughout most of the country. Please, Gordon, do us all a favour - do not go around representing the organisation ad hoc.
I must agree with "One pissed off member" who replied previously to this. I've also been a member for years. Take a lesson, Gordon - don't sprout bullshit in an official capacity on a NG that has nothing, in reality, to do with your role in St John.
champ
"Gordon ALLAN" <atoms...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> Attention : Current Members of Operations Branch Involved in this > Discussion.
> This line of conversation is inappropriate for this forum and shall cease > immediately.
> Should members wish to discuss this further, I suggest they make appropriate > comments as per their Chain of Command.
> Gordon ALLAN > Divisional Superintendent > Whitehorse Combined Division
> "Cathy" <Cathy_Guy...@bigpond.com> wrote in message > news:uvih8.28$uR5.447@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... > > Salams to all, > > Just to let you all know I won't be getting overalls coz the divsion has > > sorta got no money at the moment. So I will be refusing to do "overall > > duties" til further notice.
> > > Even as a Volunteer, the organization as a duty of care to provide the > > > correct PPE to individuals, if there is an incident both the individual > > and > > > the supervisor are responsible, in this case it would be you, the OIC of > > the > > > duty and the DO or Supt. you are totally correct in not attending with > > out > > > overalls for example.
> > > If you can't get anywhere with your DO, DON or Supt, maybe its time to > > seek > > > out the District Officer. Because ultimately it's their bum that the > > > Commissioner will kick if you are injured on a duty because of lack of > > PPE.
Sorry all, I'm putting up two posts on the same topic :-(
I'll avoid a complete repeat of the other post (in "st john discussion" topic) and just say that all this doesn't really represent St John, or at least not from my experience in the organisation. I'm a happy member. I make mistakes and I disagree with things but St John can handle that.
Sadly some old attitudes creep in from time to time, even from people who are excellent members (or officers) of the organisation. It's an easy mistake to get defensive when you see the organisation you think is pretty good coping a beating. I suspect Mr Allen is not as oppressive as his posts suggests but he wanted to try and protect St John. To that end I think his intentions were honourable, even if the execution was off.
> Given that I think that in normal times you are probably a sane and > generally nice guy, as are most of the SJA Operations Branch types > that I have dealings with, and not one of the infrequent pompous, self > opinionated, generally long winded people we HAVE to deal with at > times, I would ask you to reconsider the manner in which you "suggest" > the discontinuation of this tread.
> Your directive, from a "Divisional Superintendent", suggests that you > have had a brain fart!!!
> What were you thinking??? <tap tap tap on your head>
> Are you intent on continuing the idea that in EVERY volunteer service > there are a few people who allow their high opinion of themselves to > rule the side of their brain that controls reason and respect.
> Maybe your comments should be recinded with an apology as soon as > possible.
> Perhaps a short note advising that a more appropriate process, or a > comment relating to the general difficulties of Ops Branch Divisions > in relation to fund raising may have been a more appropriate in this > forum of emergency service personnell and those who support them.
> Yup, it is people like you who are forcing me to reduce my involvement > with SJA, and focus on my real job as a paid officer in the Ambulance > service.
> Dear Gordon ALLAN, Divisional Superintendent, Whitehorse Combined > Division, What a great example of tolerance and rapour you > demonstrate.... (I have to stop before I puke). All you have done is > bring you, your Division, and your position into disprepute.... But it > is a good thing that a lot of the readers in this forum have the > ability to apply the dickhead filter.
> From,
> One pissed off member who has worked for years to rid SJA of > anachronistic non communicative people (unlike you)
> No wonder St John is viewed as a bunch of halfwits throughout most of the > country. Please, Gordon, do us all a favour - do not go around representing > the organisation ad hoc.
> I must agree with "One pissed off member" who replied previously to this. > I've also been a member for years. Take a lesson, Gordon - don't sprout > bullshit in an official capacity on a NG that has nothing, in reality, to do > with your role in St John.
> > This line of conversation is inappropriate for this forum and shall cease > > immediately.
> > Should members wish to discuss this further, I suggest they make > appropriate > > comments as per their Chain of Command.
> > Gordon ALLAN > > Divisional Superintendent > > Whitehorse Combined Division
> > "Cathy" <Cathy_Guy...@bigpond.com> wrote in message > > news:uvih8.28$uR5.447@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... > > > Salams to all, > > > Just to let you all know I won't be getting overalls coz the divsion has > > > sorta got no money at the moment. So I will be refusing to do "overall > > > duties" til further notice.
> > > > Even as a Volunteer, the organization as a duty of care to provide the > > > > correct PPE to individuals, if there is an incident both the > individual > > > and > > > > the supervisor are responsible, in this case it would be you, the OIC > of > > > the > > > > duty and the DO or Supt. you are totally correct in not attending > with > > > out > > > > overalls for example.
> > > > If you can't get anywhere with your DO, DON or Supt, maybe its time > to > > > seek > > > > out the District Officer. Because ultimately it's their bum that the > > > > Commissioner will kick if you are injured on a duty because of lack of > > > PPE.
> > > > Cheers > > > > Craig
Ooooh geez I bet ol' Gordy is sitting at home in front of his computer with steam billowing out of his ears. How dare all you insolent wretches pick on him heheheehhe. He cant help it if the pins on the pips on his shoulder have severed the blood flow to his brain. This happens naturally when you take on a commission.......bwhahahahhaa. oops sorry.. I feel dirty picking on a boss.
<crap from Gordon Allan - who means nothing to me and has no control over me - snipped as we've all read it by now>
Excellent. I've now become a member of STJ it appears. I wonder if the whole of the related conversation has been followed and the meaning of it understood or not.
Surely an off-group email to any members who do post on this group would have been preferrable to a post to a group where most members are not members of STJ and were offering their advice to an ES colleague about a general question on PPE. This would have achieved a better result.
I think that the original post in this thread has given the topic that was being written about more publicity against non STJ members in this group than was the case originally.
Erk (speaking on behalf of me, myself and I as always)
