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Malabar Headland

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Graham

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Jun 19, 2002, 5:55:21 AM6/19/02
to
Copied this from the aus.environment.conservation newsgroup.
Anyone know how extensive the light rail network referred to in this article
is?
Graham

"Michael" <md...@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:aep3sp$ca4$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> G'day folks
>
> I want to let people know about an issue that is dear to my heart.
>
> Malabar Headland is about 150 hectares of land between Sydney Harbour and
> Botany Bay in NSW. Specifically it is made up of two points - Magic Point
> and Boora Point. It is the headland between Maroubra Beach going south to
> Long Bay or Malabar Beach. It is the last undeveloped coastland in that
part
> of the city (we put golf courses or houses on the rest!)
>
> Sadly the land is probably best known because it contains the Anzac Rifle
> Range (which the Federal Government promised would be relocated elsewhere
by
> the end of 2000) and the Malabar Sewerage Treatment Works. But it is so
much
> more. A colleague has identified 178 different species of bird there over
> the last five years making it possibly the most bird rich site in NSW. It
is
> considered one of the 5 best sites IN THE WORLD to view migratory sea
birds.
> It contains almost all the remaining Eastern Suburbs Banksia scrub and
Port
> Jackson Mallee. It is rich in indigenous and military history. (There are
> still buildings, gun enplacements, an ammunition light rail line from the
> WW2 Coastal Defence line.) The views from the Headland are spectacular, if
> you ignore the perimeter fence and the No Trespassing signs (as dozens of
> people do every day!) It is listed with the National Trust as an
endangered
> place.
>
> The Headland is owned by the Federal Government - the Department of
Finance
> and Administration (DoFA) specifically although responsibility for it has
> been handed over to the Special Minister of State, Tasmanian Sen Eric
Abetz.
> The 'managers' of the land (I use that term VERY loosely) are Price
Coopers
> Waterhouse.
>
> There are two issues of concern here.
>
> The first is that the Federal Government want to sell off the land! It was
> previously put up for sale back in the 1980s but the State Government, the
> rifle shooters and others managed to block it. (We have a copy of that
> prospectus and Club Med were very interested!)
>
> The second is the dangerously high level of toxic material leaching from
the
> land into the childrens wading pool at the south end of Maroubra Beach.
The
> Rifle Range sits on 10 metres of landfill. There is anecdotal evidence of
> all sorts of material being dumped there, including liquid waste dumped by
> both Caltex and ICI.
>
> The Peninsula Branch of the environment group ELEMENT obtained through
> Freedom of Information 1800 pages of reports and correspondence between
the
> Federal Government, EPA and DASCEM. Both EPA and DASCEM recommended as far
> back as 1998 that signs should be placed warning the public about the
> dangers of undertaking recreational activity there. This was not binding
on
> the Federal Government and they ignored it.
>
> So ELEMENT made some signs of our own, merely quoting from the reports of
> EPA and DASCEM and concreted them into the sand at the south end of
Maroubra
> Beach. They only stayed a few days before Randwick Council removed them
but
> the issue is now in the poublic domain.
>
> Both Randwick Council and the NSW Premier (and local member) want the land
> to be retained as a national park. We intend to do whatever we can to
> achieve that goal.
>
> If you are interested in any of these issues you may wish to check out our
> Yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/save_malabar_headland The site
> includes photos, articles, copies of vegetation reports and, shortly, the
> bird list, links to other sites and a calendar of upcoming meetings and
> events. You need to join the group to access the page but it is free and
> easy to do. It is an open forum - if you wish to talk about any of the
> issues please feel free to do so.
>
> We also conduct walks on the site every second Sunday. Details are in the
> calendar. Any wishing to attend any of the walks or wishing to get
involved
> could email me at mdre...@yahoo.com.au
>
> Thanks for your time.
> Michael Drew
> Peninsula Branch, ELEMENT
>
>
>


Robbo

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Jun 19, 2002, 9:59:09 AM6/19/02
to
in article RtYP8.240$5l4....@ozemail.com.au, Graham at gra...@morphett.com
wrote on 19/6/02 7:55 PM:

> Copied this from the aus.environment.conservation newsgroup.
> Anyone know how extensive the light rail network referred to in this article
> is?
> Graham

I went there many many years ago (you're not normally allowed in there, but
I was with a group of people led by a NPWS ranger who let us in), I remember
there was a rail line, I think it ran small trolley sort of things that
carried ammunition from one part of the fort thingy to the other.

My memory has sadly failed me, and I can't remember much.

Mark Newton

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Jun 19, 2002, 10:09:10 AM6/19/02
to

Graham wrote:
>
> Copied this from the aus.environment.conservation newsgroup.
> Anyone know how extensive the light rail network referred to in this article
> is?
> Graham

> "Michael" <md...@tig.com.au> wrote in message
> news:aep3sp$ca4$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> > G'day folks
> >
> > I want to let people know about an issue that is dear to my heart.
> > Malabar Headland is about 150 hectares of land between Sydney Harbour and

> > Botany Bay in NSW. It is rich in indigenous and military history. (There are


> > still buildings, gun enplacements, an ammunition light rail line from the
> > WW2 Coastal Defence line.) The views from the Headland are spectacular, if
> > you ignore the perimeter fence and the No Trespassing signs (as dozens of
> > people do every day!) It is listed with the National Trust as an endangered place.

(Snip)

In short, not very extensive, describing the line at Malabar Battery as
a network is rather misleading. There is a single track of approximately
60cm (not measured at the time of my last visit) which leads from the
area of the battery domestic site, through the basement of the Close
Defence Battery Observation Post, and up to the two gun emplacements. I
presume that the gauge was 60cm, based on the fact that the Army had
stocks of 60cm panel track during the period the battery was
constructed, and that other coast artillery sites, such as Illowra and
Drummond, have 60cm gauge track in situ. The track was used to transport
the 6" projectiles to the shell expense stores/magazines in the base of
each emplacement.

What does make the railway interesting is that for most of it's length
it is in a rather nicely constructed cutting, lined with cut sandstone.
This was to minimise the risk of injury to the soldiery manning the site
from stray rounds from the rifle range. In effect, the railway track was
placed in a permanent trench. Problems with stray rounds were apparent
during the construction phase, but no steps were taken to remedy the
situation until the battery was fully manned, and the manpower was
available for digging and facing the "trench". Other 60cm track can be
seen in the batteries at Illowra, Drummond, and the Casemate Battery at
Georges Head.

Ring.

James Shugg

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Jun 19, 2002, 3:39:25 PM6/19/02
to
Mark Newton <markn...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in reposnse to

> > Anyone know how extensive the light rail network referred to in this article
> > is?

> In short, not very extensive, describing the line at Malabar Battery as
> a network is rather misleading. There is a single track of approximately
> 60cm (not measured at the time of my last visit) which leads from the
> area of the battery domestic site, through the basement of the Close
> Defence Battery Observation Post, and up to the two gun emplacements. I
> presume that the gauge was 60cm, based on the fact that the Army had
> stocks of 60cm panel track during the period the battery was
> constructed, and that other coast artillery sites, such as Illowra and
> Drummond, have 60cm gauge track in situ. The track was used to transport
> the 6" projectiles to the shell expense stores/magazines in the base of
> each emplacement.
>
> What does make the railway interesting is that for most of it's length
> it is in a rather nicely constructed cutting, lined with cut sandstone.
> This was to minimise the risk of injury to the soldiery manning the site
> from stray rounds from the rifle range. In effect, the railway track was
> placed in a permanent trench. Problems with stray rounds were apparent
> during the construction phase, but no steps were taken to remedy the
> situation until the battery was fully manned, and the manpower was
> available for digging and facing the "trench". Other 60cm track can be
> seen in the batteries at Illowra, Drummond, and the Casemate Battery at
> Georges Head.
>
> Ring.

Would the 2' gauge battery electric loco operated railway at the
former munitions storage area on the Parramatta River, close to the
Olympics stadium (now called Millenium Park? sorry, I'm not a
Sydney-sider) be another more elaborate example, or are these light
railways even "lighter" than that?

Mark Newton

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Jun 21, 2002, 3:26:22 AM6/21/02
to

James Shugg wrote:
>
> Would the 2' gauge battery electric loco operated railway at the
> former munitions storage area on the Parramatta River, close to the
> Olympics stadium (now called Millenium Park? sorry, I'm not a
> Sydney-sider) be another more elaborate example, or are these light
> railways even "lighter" than that?

The "railway" at Malabar Battery is about as light as you can get,
compared to the railway system at RANAD Newington, now incorporated in
the Millennium Park. Whereas the line at Malabar is nothing more than a
length of single track from the perimeter of the battery site to the
emplacements, Newington had an extensive system of a couple of
kilometres in length, with loops, branchlines, loco shed, etcetera.

The track at Malabar appears to have been laid directly on the ground,
without ballast. Much of the track at Newington was fairly heavy rail
laid in either in mass concrete, much in the manner of tramway trackage,
or properly ballasted conventional track. And of course, Newington
employed locomotives to haul trains, whereas at Malabar single wagons
were propelled by the muscle power of the garrison troops.

Further information on the RANAD Newington railway can be found in
issues 158 and 161 of "Light Railways", as well as previous issues. Work
on construction of new passenger rollingstock for the "Millennium Park
Railway" is progressing well, so one would expect a opening date to be
announced soon.

Ring.

Michael

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Jun 23, 2002, 9:47:10 PM6/23/02
to

"Mark Newton" <markn...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3D12D51D...@optusnet.com.au...

>
> James Shugg wrote:
> >
> > Would the 2' gauge battery electric loco operated railway at the
> > former munitions storage area on the Parramatta River, close to the
> > Olympics stadium (now called Millenium Park? sorry, I'm not a
> > Sydney-sider) be another more elaborate example, or are these light
> > railways even "lighter" than that?
>
> The "railway" at Malabar Battery is about as light as you can get,
> compared to the railway system at RANAD Newington, now incorporated in
> the Millennium Park. Whereas the line at Malabar is nothing more than a
> length of single track from the perimeter of the battery site to the
> emplacements, Newington had an extensive system of a couple of
> kilometres in length, with loops, branchlines, loco shed, etcetera.
>

There is a good coverage of the Malabar Ammunition Tramway in the January
1995 issue (no 127) of Light Railways.

The article's author, Jim Longworth, has carried out all the measurements
that have been guessed at in this thread. He says it is a 22in (560mm) guage
tramway. The line "snakes through a deep continuous cutting (trench)
excavated through the headland sand dunes." Longworth describes in detail
the rock walling that stabilises the trench. The line links a safe inland
point with the gun emplacements (which he also describes in some detail).
"Before reaching the guns the line enters a rectangular section concrete
lined tunnel...A fork just inside the tunnel and set of points in the line
leads to each gun emplacement [there are two]. The tunnel is 85 feet long
from the doorway to the nearest gun and 310 feet long from the doorway to
the furthest."

He goes in to some detail about the points and the weight of the rail that
is well beyond my comprehension.

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that the area is now out of bounds.
That is technically correct. It is owned by the Federal Government and they
have fenced it off and placed No Trespassing signs. However this is not
enforced and hundreds of people walk around the headland without a problem.

Unfortunately the Government is attempting for a second time (a sale to Club
Med was blocked in the 1980s) to sell the headland so this link to our WW2
history may disappear. This is despite previous agreement by Federal and
State governments that the area will become a National Park.

ELEMENT is a local group committed to the Headland remaining in public
ownership and becoming a National Park.

We conduct walks on the headland every second Sunday, showing people this
jewel "lost" so close to the Sydney CBD - looking at the natural beauty,
the historical significance, the degradation that has been allowed. Not all
the walks cover all the headland (it is over 150 hectares) but this coming
Sunday 30 June the walk will certainly follow the rail line into the tunnel
and to the gun emplacements. The walk will leave from South Maroubra Beach
car park at 10.00am and contune for approximately 5 hours. Rail enthusiasts
would be most welcome!

More information about the headland is available at our Yahoo group -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/save_malabar_headland

The tour is free. We want as many people as possible to appreciate this
great site.

Phone Michael Drew on (02) 9345 0786 to book a place.

Thanks. Michael


Tezza

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Jun 23, 2002, 10:19:57 PM6/23/02
to

"Michael" <md...@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:af5tn3$ail$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...

> We conduct walks on the headland every second Sunday, showing people this
> jewel "lost" so close to the Sydney CBD - looking at the natural beauty,
> the historical significance, the degradation that has been allowed. Not
all
> the walks cover all the headland (it is over 150 hectares) but this coming
> Sunday 30 June the walk will certainly follow the rail line into the
tunnel
> and to the gun emplacements. The walk will leave from South Maroubra Beach
> car park at 10.00am and contune for approximately 5 hours. Rail
enthusiasts
> would be most welcome!

Buffs walk for 5 hours! LOL!!!


Graham

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Jun 24, 2002, 2:32:44 AM6/24/02
to
<Snip>

Thanks group - most informative

Now if someone going on the walk would take some pix for us (I'm in Qld and
can't make it) that would be wonderful.

Malabar Headland almost sounds too good to be true - a pristine "Sydney
Bush" environment - with a railway - right in the middle of the city!

Graham


Mark Newton

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Jun 24, 2002, 5:46:31 AM6/24/02
to
Michael wrote:
>
> There is a good coverage of the Malabar Ammunition Tramway in the January
> 1995 issue (no 127) of Light Railways.
>
> The article's author, Jim Longworth, has carried out all the measurements
> that have been guessed at in this thread. He says it is a 22in (560mm) guage
> tramway. The line "snakes through a deep continuous cutting (trench)
> excavated through the headland sand dunes." Longworth describes in detail
> the rock walling that stabilises the trench. The line links a safe inland
> point with the gun emplacements (which he also describes in some detail).
> "Before reaching the guns the line enters a rectangular section concrete
> lined tunnel...A fork just inside the tunnel and set of points in the line
> leads to each gun emplacement [there are two]. The tunnel is 85 feet long
> from the doorway to the nearest gun and 310 feet long from the doorway to
> the furthest."

Thanks for that information, Michael. I had thought that there would be
coverage of this line in LR, but my back issues don't go back that far.
On my last visit to Malabar Battery, I did not have a "stick of inches"
to measure the track gauge, so I assumed 24" inches based on track
observed at other coast artillery installations. What was not apparent
to me was the set of points at the tunnel entrance - there was so much
dirt, vegetation and rubbish hereabouts that the track was not visible.

All the best, Ring.

Say No Now

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Jun 25, 2002, 10:22:21 PM6/25/02
to
Mark Newton <markn...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<3D16EA77...@optusnet.com.au>...


Hey, Mark Newton, Do you work at 3801 limited?

Say No Now

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Jun 25, 2002, 10:27:15 PM6/25/02
to
I think the railway you talk of is at the Malabar battery which was
used durring world war 2. It's called the anzac rifle range bunker
because it is behind the anzac rifle range in Malabar.
There are some photos of the bunker and railway at
htt://www.urbanadventure.org.
click on either "anzac" or "anzac revisited"


"Graham" <gra...@morphett.com> wrote in message news:<RtYP8.240$5l4....@ozemail.com.au>...

Mark Newton

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Jun 28, 2002, 5:26:22 AM6/28/02
to
Say No Now wrote:
>
> I think the railway you talk of is at the Malabar battery which was
> used durring world war 2. It's called the anzac rifle range bunker
> because it is behind the anzac rifle range in Malabar.
> There are some photos of the bunker and railway at
> htt://www.urbanadventure.org.
> click on either "anzac" or "anzac revisited"
>
Pig's arse it's called the "anzac rifle range bunker". The photos
featured on the "urbanadventures" site are interesting enough, but the
captions are obviously written by somebody who knows f*ck all about
coast artillery, and is quite happy to make it up as they go along. The
structure in question is the Close Defence Battery Observation Post,
Malabar Battery. But thanks for the link to the site.

Ring.

David Johnson

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Jun 28, 2002, 10:32:12 AM6/28/02
to
On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:26:22 +1000, Mark Newton
<markn...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

>Say No Now wrote:
>>
>> I think the railway you talk of is at the Malabar battery which was
>> used durring world war 2. It's called the anzac rifle range bunker
>> because it is behind the anzac rifle range in Malabar.
>> There are some photos of the bunker and railway at
>> htt://www.urbanadventure.org.
>> click on either "anzac" or "anzac revisited"
>>
>Pig's arse it's called the "anzac rifle range bunker".

I thought the Anzac Rifle Range was closer to Holsworthy than Malabar?

David Johnson
trai...@ozemail.com.au
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~trainman/
------------------------------------
These comments are made in a private
capacity and do not represent the
official view of State Rail.
C.O.W.S. Page 11.

Mark Newton

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Jun 28, 2002, 1:04:11 PM6/28/02
to
David Johnson wrote:
>
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:26:22 +1000, Mark Newton
> <markn...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> >Say No Now wrote:
> >>
> >> I think the railway you talk of is at the Malabar battery which was
> >> used durring world war 2. It's called the anzac rifle range bunker
> >> because it is behind the anzac rifle range in Malabar.
> >> There are some photos of the bunker and railway at
> >> htt://www.urbanadventure.org.
> >> click on either "anzac" or "anzac revisited"
> >>
> >Pig's arse it's called the "anzac rifle range bunker".
>
> I thought the Anzac Rifle Range was closer to Holsworthy than Malabar?
>
> David Johnson

The range near Maroubra was originally known as Long Bay Rifle Range,
has it's origins with the NSW colonial militia, and was presumably
renamed post WW1. My comment was re the name of the coast artillery
battery, rather than the rifle range. Just to confuse the issue, the
range near Holsworthy you refer to is also known as Anzac Rifle Range!
See "Sydney's Forgotten Military Railways", by John Oakes. ARHS NSW 1997.

Ring.

Say No Now

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Jun 30, 2002, 6:01:58 AM6/30/02
to
Mark Newton <markn...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<3D1C2BBE...@optusnet.com.au>...

sorry, It's near Malabar battery and is A.K.A by some people as the
anzac rifle range bunkers. I don't know much about our coastal defence
system. Suburban underground installations are my scene

Michael

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Jul 5, 2002, 10:41:56 AM7/5/02
to

"Mark Newton" <markn...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3D16EA77...@optusnet.com.au...

> Michael wrote:
> >
> > There is a good coverage of the Malabar Ammunition Tramway in the
January
> > 1995 issue (no 127) of Light Railways.
snip

> Thanks for that information, Michael. I had thought that there would be
> coverage of this line in LR, but my back issues don't go back that far.
> On my last visit to Malabar Battery, I did not have a "stick of inches"
> to measure the track gauge, so I assumed 24" inches based on track
> observed at other coast artillery installations. What was not apparent
> to me was the set of points at the tunnel entrance - there was so much
> dirt, vegetation and rubbish hereabouts that the track was not visible.
>
> All the best, Ring.

Mark, I hope to get back out there this weekend. If not, our next walk on
Sunday 14 July (which primarily covers the western escarpment of Malabar
Headland) is scheduled to get to the rail line if time permits.

I intend to bring one of those sticks with the numbers on it this time. Just
a question first though - when I measure the gauge do I measure from the
outside or the inside of each track??

I'll let you know the result when I get it done.

Michael
Peninsula Branch
ELEMENT
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/save_malabar_headland


Jeff Melvaine

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Jul 7, 2002, 8:54:02 AM7/7/02
to

Michael <md...@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:ag4b7o$3d9$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...

>
> "Mark Newton" <markn...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3D16EA77...@optusnet.com.au...
> > Michael wrote:
> > >
> > > There is a good coverage of the Malabar Ammunition Tramway in the
> January
> > > 1995 issue (no 127) of Light Railways.
> snip
> > Thanks for that information, Michael. I had thought that there would be
> > coverage of this line in LR, but my back issues don't go back that far.
> > On my last visit to Malabar Battery, I did not have a "stick of inches"
> > to measure the track gauge, so I assumed 24" inches based on track
> > observed at other coast artillery installations. What was not apparent
> > to me was the set of points at the tunnel entrance - there was so much
> > dirt, vegetation and rubbish hereabouts that the track was not visible.
> >
> > All the best, Ring.
>
> Mark, I hope to get back out there this weekend. If not, our next walk on
> Sunday 14 July (which primarily covers the western escarpment of Malabar
> Headland) is scheduled to get to the rail line if time permits.
>
> I intend to bring one of those sticks with the numbers on it this time.
Just
> a question first though - when I measure the gauge do I measure from the
> outside or the inside of each track??

That depends upon whether the flanges of the wheels rest upon the inner or
outer edges of the rails; the gauge defines the standard to which the
rolling stock is built. To answer this question, visualise a set of points.

Michael

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Jul 7, 2002, 11:44:29 AM7/7/02
to

"Mark Newton" <markn...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3D1C970B...@optusnet.com.au...

And to confuse it even further, the current tenants of Anzac Rifle Range
(Malabar), the NSW Rifle Club, are to be evicted as soon as they can be
accommodated at Anzac Rifle Range (Holsworthy). There are two problems -
there are toxicity issues at Holsworthy and, I understand, most of the
suitable sites for ranges are too short for a 1000m range, whcih is required
for the annual Queen's Shoot competition.

I got some photos of the trench and the rail line and the tunnel today that
aren't too bad. I intend to post them at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/save_malabar_headland in the Album called WW2
Coastal Defence in the next day or two if anyone is interested.

Michael


Michael

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Jul 7, 2002, 11:38:51 AM7/7/02
to
Thanks Jeff

I saw your post AFTER I returned from my visit to the Headland at Malabar. I
measured from the inside of one rail to the inside of the other and came up
with 560mm which my little unit converter tells me is 22 inches.

The rails are quite narrow. When measured from the outside of one rail to
the outside of the other I got 640 mm or 25 inches.

In light of your answer to my question, I may still not have provided enough
information to answer the question. I'm afraid I have no idea whether the
flanges of the wheels rest upon the inner or outer edges of the rails.
Sorry. Mark, do you know? Does this help?

Michael

"Jeff Melvaine" <jef...@rivernet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3d28...@news.rivernet.com.au...

Diesel

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Jul 7, 2002, 4:02:56 PM7/7/02
to

Michael <md...@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:ag4b7o$3d9$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...

> Mark, I hope to get back out there this weekend. If not, our next walk on
> Sunday 14 July (which primarily covers the western escarpment of Malabar
> Headland) is scheduled to get to the rail line if time permits.
>
> I intend to bring one of those sticks with the numbers on it this time.
Just
> a question first though - when I measure the gauge do I measure from the
> outside or the inside of each track??
>
I guess you would already know this Michael, but for those who might not.
The Malabar Headland is a fully operational Rifle Range and is open 7 days a
week. I think the range closes around 4pm. The Malabar Headland area is
within the "Safety Zone" of the rifle range ( Where the Bullets might
fall ). So please remember this, if you want to safely go wondering about
the headland. For more detailed information on when the range is open,
contact the NSW Rife Association on 9661 4532.

Diesel


Diesel

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Jul 7, 2002, 4:32:00 PM7/7/02
to

Michael <md...@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:ag9nl0$i91$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...

>
>
> And to confuse it even further, the current tenants of Anzac Rifle Range
> (Malabar), the NSW Rifle Club, are to be evicted as soon as they can be
> accommodated at Anzac Rifle Range (Holsworthy). There are two problems -
> there are toxicity issues at Holsworthy and, I understand, most of the
> suitable sites for ranges are too short for a 1000m range, whcih is
required
> for the annual Queen's Shoot competition.
>
Unfortunately for you Michael, the bunny huggers have discovered some frogs
and rare trees at the proposed location of the new rifle range at
Holsworthy. So, don't hold your breath about the rifle range moving any day
soon. It's been the 100 years now and the next 100 is looking more likely as
time go on. I hadn't head of the toxins at Holsworthy, but I wouldn't be
surprised at all.

As for the toxins at Malabar. Many of the older shooters have told me that
they remember the military and ICI using this headland area as a toxic dump
for many years, particularly during WW2. When ever it rains, much of the
water seeping out of the rear of the range is very oily looking. I also read
in the paper the other week that the local council has closed the ocean pool
due to toxins seeping onto the beach from the headland.

Let me know if you want to attend a rifle match one Saturday. Visitors are
always very welcome.

Regards...Diesel
Happy Shooting


Michael McDonald

unread,
Jul 8, 2002, 2:52:09 AM7/8/02
to
On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 03:24:16 +1000, Mark Newton
<markn...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

>Jeff Melvaine wrote:
>>
>>> a question first though - when I measure the gauge do I measure from the
>> > outside or the inside of each track??
>>
>> That depends upon whether the flanges of the wheels rest upon the inner or
>> outer edges of the rails; the gauge defines the standard to which the
>> rolling stock is built. To answer this question, visualise a set of points.
>> >
>

>Okay, I'm visualising a turnout, as requested.
>
>With the obvious exception of timber tramways using log rails and
>double-flanged wheels, what examples are there of conventional track
>where the flanges run on the outer face of the rail?
>
>Ring.

Funiculars utilising a central passing loop may have double flange on
the "outside" and no flanges on the "inside". There are no moving
parts on the "points" at the entrance and exit of the passing loop.

Whether or not funiculars have a conventional track is a moot point.
The Hong Kong "Peak Tram" is 2 rail at the bottom, 4 rail (2 tracks)
at the middle loop, and 3-rail (2 track with common "inside" rail)
from there to the top. From memory, Wellington funicular is 2-rail
all the way, except for the passing loop.

Cheers
Michael

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