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From: jg <j...@nospam.com>
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Subject: Re: Cardinal Pell needs to be put in his place, quick smart!
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 05:00:30 +0800
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On 15/11/2012 4:33 AM, Why are people so cruel wrote:
>
> "jg" <j...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:zVSos.939$1k5.706@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>> On 15/11/2012 2:59 AM, Why are people so cruel wrote:
>>>
>>> "jg" <j...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:F8Jos.928$1k5.662@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>>> On 14/11/2012 3:12 PM, Why are people so cruel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "jg" <j...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:0ACos.919$1k5.255@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>>>>> On 14/11/2012 9:12 AM, Why are people so cruel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "jg" <j...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:wDAos.911$1k5.666@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>>>>>>> On 14/11/2012 6:55 AM, malek wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I am of the view this man is in denial mode and is disgusting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He has admitted there was/is abuse, there have been coverups and
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there are victims. Has suggested the catholic church isn't the only
>>>>>>>> place it happens.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If everybody knew the full deal there would not need to be a
>>>>>>>> commission, dunno what else you would expect from someone in his
>>>>>>>> position.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In fact I don't see any others, like administrators of certain govt
>>>>>>>> run orphanages already proved to be homes of pedos, sticking up
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> hands to be counted in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You often find that a lay catholic has been behind the abuse in
>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>> run homes/hostels, eg Dennis McKenna at Katanning. Paedophilia is an
>>>>>>> overwhelmingly catholic problem - lay, priests and nuns, the cover
>>>>>>> ups are
>>>>>>> 95% catholic. Other organisations tend to abide by the law and
>>>>>>> report
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> matter to the police, no cover up and no howls of protest at the way
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> treated victims.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wouldn't be surprised, since a good 20% of the population is at least
>>>>>> nominal catholic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would still be a problem of institutional abuse within an
>>>>>> organisation which isn't catholic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why was it covered up or ignored? Why did it take 30 years for
>>>>>> complaints to be heard?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Probably a range of issues as to why it was ignored or covered up.
>>>>> Grooming of the victims is the main reason - the paedophiles get them
>>>>> to believe its their fault, the power they have over their young
>>>>> victims
>>>>> is incredible - I've read/heard of priests taking their victims to
>>>>> another
>>>>> church and making them "confess" that it was their fault. Once they
>>>>> have
>>>>> "confessed" its their fault its very difficult to then report the
>>>>> abuse.
>>>>> Bear
>>>>> in mind that the child has already been groomed to recruit other
>>>>> children
>>>>> when they reach puberty and this is held over them when they realise
>>>>> that this is not normal behaviour.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a book called "Rockspiders" written by a Vic police officer
>>>>> which
>>>>> goes into a lot of details.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had read that abusers were often abused, but that doesn't fit with
>>>> those making complaints and doesn't explain why they so often say
>>>> complaints weren't heard in the past.
>>>>
>
> Heard but not acted upon. The abused were young children, often the
> complaints were dismissed as vexatious - the priest would say that they
> had disciplined the child and he/she was vengeful. When complaints
> became too frequent to ignore the priest was moved on and the abused
> told that the matter had been dealt with by the church - by moving the
> offender on to offend elsewhere.
>

By heard I mean acted on. Everyone is aware of what used to happen, none 
of it explains what has happened to change to what happens now.

>
>>>> Whistleblowers were victimised (in govt departments too), no 'working
>>>> with children clearance, no talk of inquiries. As has been observed -
>>>> society didn't know what to do about it.
>>>>
>
> We've always known what to do, there has been a lack of will by politicians
> to do anything about it until a campaign is run.
>

Wasn't politicians who decided to believe children, stop implicitly 
trusting authority or place punishment above an offender's otherwise 
effective place in society.


>>>> Complaints obviously are heard now. Pedo's might operate the same way,
>>>> but times have changed.
>>>>
>
> Same story.
>
>>>>
>>> Just follow some of the paper trails - amazing the number of
>>> "referees" in
>>> job applications who are/were catholic priests.
>>
>>
>> Catholic priests running govt departments? Chances of a response to my
>> point are looking pretty remote.
>
>
> When access is gained to personnel files, there will be plenty of
> examples of
> employees being recommended for jobs by catholic priests which put them
> in positions coming into contact with children. Anyone who has a catholic
> priest as a referee has to be sus and should be suspended until proven safe
> to work around children.

Clutching at straws.