NSW SDRO is useless.
Noodle
I got a $86 Parking Fine in Sydney CBD, and wrote to the SDRO.
The time was wrong. The Parking Ranger wrote "09:00am to 01:40 **AM**
on 13/03/2011 instead of "09:00AM to 01:40 **PM** 13/03/2011".
I told them the Fine was wrong, it was an impossibility, and to Annul
the Fine; or I threatened to immediately take it to Local Court.
They sent it off for Review by City Of Sydney Council. I know this
because it took 3 months to get back to me!
They replied with:
"We acknowledge your comments the issuing office incorrectly recroded
the time on the penalty notice. The details have been reviewed and
corrected where necessary. The time should have been recorded as
1.40pm. This error does not affect the validity of the penalty
notice."
So, BE AWARE:
Ticket errors made by a NSW Parking Ranger from any Council do not
make an SDRO Fine invalid!
Epsilon
::
:: Ticket errors made by a NSW Parking Ranger from any Council do not
:: make an SDRO Fine invalid!
Nothing new about that.
Rob
Thats nothing new but for the fact the document issued was a legal
document.
Epsilon
What is a "legal" document?
Sylvia Else
Do you deny that you committed the parking offence?
It appears to me that the details are for your information only, and do
not form part of the notice. So the SDRO are correct in saying that the
validity is not affected.
By asking them to review the notice, and stating the reason, you've
given them the opportunity to correct it. Had you simply elected to have
the matter heard in court, and pleaded not guilty, there's every chance
that the case would have been thrown out (assuming that the officer's
record matched the notice). Of course, you'd have spent a day in court.
Sylvia.
George W Frost
"Noodle" <ozno...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a4523782-ca82-43d4...@28g2000pry.googlegroups.com...
It was mentioned a few weeks ago, where the issuing office, whether it be a
council ranger or the Police department. have been given the right to alter
any details of a ticket if it doesn't co-incide with the fact.
Meaning, times, dates and actual roads and places can be altered to suit
Petzl
wrote:
>Hi.
>
>I got a $86 Parking Fine in Sydney CBD, and wrote to the SDRO.
>
>The time was wrong. The Parking Ranger wrote "09:00am to 01:40 **AM**
>on 13/03/2011 instead of "09:00AM to 01:40 **PM** 13/03/2011".
>
>I told them the Fine was wrong, it was an impossibility, and to Annul
>the Fine; or I threatened to immediately take it to Local Court.
First go to a solicitor (first visit free) or if a member of NRMA try
their legal advice. Never try writing to debt collectors
Petzl
--
Australia's parliament needs to obey our Constitutions, the judiciary must apply the law!
John Tserkezis
> It was mentioned a few weeks ago, where the issuing office, whether it be a
> council ranger or the Police department. have been given the right to alter
> any details of a ticket if it doesn't co-incide with the fact.
> Meaning, times, dates and actual roads and places can be altered to suit
Meaning I can modify any of my tickets and expect that to stick?
Outside of court, pigs always fly. Inside court, it depends on how
much you pay your lawyer.
--
If I can't fix it, it's probably dead.
Phil Allison
"Noodle"
** Some years ago, a good friend arrived at my place just after 5PM, parked
his car in the street outside and half an hour later we discovered a parking
ticket on his windscreen. The ticket said something like " Park in Bus Zone"
and " Time = 5.00PM ".
He was indeed parked in a bus zone, but the zone itself was signed " Bus
Zone 9:30 AM to 3:30PM ". Come 3:30 PM, cars jumped into that parking space
like a seagull on a hot chip. So on his behalf, I wrote to the Infringement
Service at Parramatta and enclosed a nice pic of the sign.
Soon got a very curt letter back saying that the notice was clearly for 3.00
PM, not 5.00 PM and so the fine was valid.
Showed the copy of the notice to numerous friends and all agreed that
although the hand writing was poor, it looked far more like a 5 than a 3.
So I wrote again, asking if the nice parking officer could simply check the
tickets he issued with serial numbers just prior and just after the one he
issued my friend and so verify if the actual time as being near to 5 PM or
near to 3PM.
The fine was dropped.
..... Phil
George W Frost
"John Tserkezis" <j...@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:4e0acaf4$0$2447$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Depends on whether you wrote the ticket or received it
HD
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:96vtl6...@mid.individual.net...
I have a question for Sylvia.
If everyone refuses to pay any on the spot fines, how long would it take for
the whole court system to break down?
Epsilon
::
:: If everyone refuses to pay any on the spot fines, how long would it
:: take for the whole court system to break down?
How long is a piece of string? If everyone refused to [ insert your
activity of choice ], how long would it take [ insert your outcome of
choice ]?
HD
"Epsilon" <n...@this.address.com> wrote in message
news:iug8sp$tn2$1...@news.albasani.net...
That is a lot of dribble that doesn't answer the question.
You can not insert an outcome of choice as it is not for you to decide the
outcome.
DM
A smart lawyer might argue that if we can't rely on the second number the
officer recorded, why should we rely on the first number?
Since neither number can be relied upon, the difference between the two
cannot be relied upon either.
Since we have no idea how long the defendant was parked, we have no way
of knowing if an offence took place.
DM
--
DM
personal opinion only
jg
You are right. If you don't deny the offence you are just correcting a
detail.
Green Lantern
"HD" <her...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:yTNOp.7588$CS3....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
Given that your question was drivel, a bit of dribble on the drivel is
appropriate enough.
Epsilon
:: "Epsilon" <n...@this.address.com> wrote in message
:: news:iug8sp$tn2$1...@news.albasani.net...
::: HD wrote:
:::::
::::: If everyone refuses to pay any on the spot fines, how long would
::::: it take for the whole court system to break down?
:::
::: How long is a piece of string? If everyone refused to [ insert your
::: activity of choice ], how long would it take [ insert your outcome
::: of choice ]?
::
:: That is a lot of dribble that doesn't answer the question.
It's your question.
:: You can not insert an outcome of choice as it is not for you to
:: decide the outcome.
You can insert an outcome of choice, if you understand what is written.
HD
Come again when you are sober and can make sense.
Epsilon
You don't understand? Entirely your problem.
Green Lantern
Looks like you've been drinking you senile old goat.
Noodle
> >I told them the Fine was wrong, it was an impossibility, and to Annul
> >the Fine; or I threatened to immediately take it to Local Court.
> First go to a solicitor (first visit free) or if a member of NRMA try
> their legal advice. Never try writing to debt collectors
Very good idea!
Didn't think of that.
Thanks, I will definately take it to the NRMA Legal Service next time,
as I am an NRMA member!
Noodle
> Do you deny that you committed the parking offence?
The truth to you, Sylvia, in private = Yes, I did park longer than
permitted.
But to the SDRO, I didn't make a comment about it at all. I simply
said "The notice is incorrect & invalid under SDRO Guidelines. Please
annul this Fine".
Anything to get out of paying a fine!
> It appears to me that the details are for your information only, and do
> not form part of the notice. So the SDRO are correct in saying that the
> validity is not affected.
Okay, fair enough.
I was always under the impression that a Council Officer &/or their
Supervisor/Manager will just use their discretion to just rip-up the
Fine for any peculiarities or mistakes, such as this. I mean, it's
just a piece of revenue, isn't it? Obviously, I thought wrong...
> By asking them to review the notice, and stating the reason, you've
> given them the opportunity to correct it. Had you simply elected to have
> the matter heard in court, and pleaded not guilty, there's every chance
> that the case would have been thrown out (assuming that the officer's
> record matched the notice). Of course, you'd have spent a day in court.
I never would've gone to Court for this, unfortunately.
It's not just a matter of spending (wasting) a day for $86.
I don't want to take the risk:
It's a matter of "What kind of mood will the Magistrate be in
today?". If he is an asshole, got up on the wrong side of bed, is
always sympatehic to Council or just hates my freckles, he will throw
the book at me and the $86 fine will become a $200 fine + $79 Court
Costs + $69 Victims Compensation Levy.
I would *LOVE* to get Ms. Pat O'Shane for every appearance in a Local
Court:
http://www.news.com.au/national/inquiry-into-oshane-cop-bias/story-e6frfkwi-1111112841405
She is very sympathetic to normal citizens.
But, alas, I cannot "pick and choose" my Magistrates, so I don't want
to take the risk.
Noodle
> So I wrote again, asking if the nice parking officer could simply check the
> tickets he issued with serial numbers just prior and just after the one he
> issued my friend and so verify if the actual time as being near to 5 PM or
> near to 3PM.
Do not write *again* to the SDRO.
You only have one chance to convince them. After that, you must take
it to Local Court, unfortunately.
It clearly said on my letter:
"PLEASE NOTE: AS WE HAVE ALREADY CONDUCTED A REVIEW OF THIS PENALTY
NOTICE, WE ARE NOT REQUIRED TO CONDUCT A FURTHER REVIEW."
Noodle
> A smart lawyer might argue that if we can't rely on the second number the
> officer recorded, why should we rely on the first number?
> Since neither number can be relied upon, the difference between the
two
> cannot be relied upon either.
> Since we have no idea how long the defendant was parked, we have no way
> of knowing if an offence took place.
Very good argument!
But no Solicitor will represent anyone for less than $100 per hour.
It's not worth paying $100 for a $86 Fine.
And NSW Local Councils/NSW Railcorp Transit Officers/NSW Police/NSW
National Parks & Wildlife Rangers know it.
It's a shame, I agree.
Phil Allison
"Noodle"
> Never try writing to debt collectors
** Insane bullshit.
> Thanks, I will definately take it to the NRMA Legal Service next time,
** Those useless pricks will just tell you to pay the fine.
Cos that is what they told me to do about the Bus zone parking fine.
..... Phil
Phil Allison
"Noodle"
>
>> So I wrote again, asking if the nice parking officer could simply check
>> the
>> tickets he issued with serial numbers just prior and just after the one
>> he
>> issued my friend and so verify if the actual time as being near to 5 PM
>> or
>> near to 3PM.
>
> Do not write *again* to the SDRO.
** Go fuck yourself - you pathetic MORON.
> You only have one chance to convince them.
** I got two, despite the parking officer insisting that what was on the
ticket was correct.
My friend had not parked illegally.
You did.
.... Phil
Sylvia Else
That's clearly what they'll say when people are simply raising the same
issue again (or like as not, no issue at all).
But in the case that Phil described, it would be obvious to them that
the same question would be asked in court, and that it would be very
embarassing to have the case thrown out on a basis that they could have
easily checked for themselves, had they been bothered. The defendant
might even be awarded costs.
Sylvia.
Noodle
> If everyone refuses to pay any on the spot fines, how long would it take for
> the whole court system to break down?
The NSW Local Court won't break down.
In about 6 months, a NSW Sherriff's Officer will come to seize the
assets in your house/flat, including a car.
There are no Criminal penalties for not paying Fines.
Sylvia Else
> Hello.
>
>> If everyone refuses to pay any on the spot fines, how long would it take for
>> the whole court system to break down?
>
> The NSW Local Court won't break down.
I think the intent was that people refuse to pay the fines, and instead
contest them in court. Neither the courts nor the parking officers are
set up to handle that level of demand, so, at least in the short term,
there would be some disruption. In the longer term, there would be a
legislative response, probably taking the form of increasing the
penalties to be imposed by the courts when faced with defended cases
where the defence is completely devoid of merit.
But it's not going to happen anyway.
Sylvia.
Noodle
> But in the case that Phil described...
Phil described a situation under the old "Infringements Processing
Bureau" - an old division of NSW Police, based at Parramatta.
IPB no longer exists, the rules have changed, and I'm guessing that
the business rules have changed as well.
> it would be obvious to them that
> the same question would be asked in court, and that it would be very
> embarassing to have the case thrown out on a basis that they could have
> easily checked for themselves, had they been bothered. The defendant
> might even be awarded costs.
I don't think the SDRO, nor any Council, care about embarrassment.
Just as no citizen cares about embarrassment.
It's all about money.
Sylvia Else
They care about being severely critised for wasting court time, and
bringing meritless prosecutions, and they care about costs that are
awarded against them.
Sylvia.
franck...@gmail.com
Had to leave the car just behind and of course i'm getting a fine.
So i'm paying and the guy too.
DOUBLE INCOMES for those bastards.
On Wednesday, 29 June 2011 15:15:08 UTC+10, Noodle wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I got a $86 Parking Fine in Sydney CBD, and wrote to the SDRO.
>
> The time was wrong. The Parking Ranger wrote "09:00am to 01:40 **AM**
> on 13/03/2011 instead of "09:00AM to 01:40 **PM** 13/03/2011".
>
> the Fine; or I threatened to immediately take it to Local Court.
>