ATO harassing people again
Tony Hancock
ATO threatened me again. Here is my response:
Dear Mr Webb and Mr Carmody,
I refer to your threatening letter dated 27 Jan 2000 in which you
demand lodgement of a '98/'99 income tax return. When will you
gormless idiots at ATO realise that thanks to Mr Carmody's
maladministration of the CSA, ATO is now unworthy of any respect
whatsoever.
ATO still illegally pass taxation data for the CSA for non-taxation
purposes. Your highest ranking CSA complaints office drone admitted as
much. Accordingly I advise that until ATO comply with the law, the
offer of settlement in my letter of 26/10/98 still stands. On 26 Oct
1998 I advised your comrade Mr B Peddy where to shove his threats. If
you want any tax returns from me ever again the Child Support
Registrar Mr Carmody must properly review my case according to law and
the principles of natural justice as per my 1995 application, which
you ATO THIEVES ignored.
This condition of a fair review is not negotiable. I don't give a
rat's arse if you are the Deputy Tax Commissioner and have bazillion
armed cops to enforce your will. As far as I am concerned Mr Carmody
and everyone who works under his irresponsibilty are thieves, and I am
not gonna give you legalised criminals any more private information to
abuse until you ATO/CSA thieves meet your side of the 'mutual
obligation'.
Mr Webb, I advise that this is the second time your office, the Deputy
Commissioner of Taxation, has threatened me. I put you on notice that
I consider your harassment to be stalking. Indeed in each letter you
threaten to do something nasty to me, either confiscating property or
throwing me in jail. I advise that I am intimidated by your
disgraceful behaviour.
I put you, Mr R Webb and Mr M Carmody, on formal notice that you are
engaging in domestic violence. Accordingly I warn you that any further
aiding and abbetting of Ms XXXXXXXXXXX's harassment campaign against
me will result in you being dealt with in accordance with SA Domestic
Violence procedure.
Thank you for your time. Please send me two copies of tax-pack forms
for each of year end '97, '98, '99 so I can meet my legal
obligations.
Yours Faithfully
Tony Hancock
"We mouthed the words, `We set up the Child Support Agency in
the best interests of children,' but that is absolute rubbish."
- Roger Price MP 19 Oct 1999
Rod Speed
Tony Handcock <to...@whyalla.net.au> wrote in message news:38953c05...@news.whyalla.net.au...
> ATO threatened me again.
Good. No reason why people like you should be allowed
to bludge off the system at the expense of us taxpayers.
I've flushed your rather pathetic posturing where it belongs.
Tony Hancock
wrote:
Good. Us taxpayer-plus extortees don't need to waste time justifying
our boycott to you standard taxpayer rorters.
Cheers
Ananke
wrote:
>ATO threatened me again. Here is my response:
Go get em, Tony. Have you put a copy of this letter on the
CSA-Watch or other web sites? I should very much like to be able to
refer people to it and its subsequent reply, should you recieve one.
Cheers mate, Ana
Why vote for a lesser evil? Cthulhu for president!
http://www.cthulhu.org/jmc/
farrall at dingoblue dot net dot au
Darkside
Tony Hancock wrote in message
<38953c05...@news.whyalla.net.au>...
>I refer to your threatening letter dated 27 Jan 2000 in which you
>demand lodgement of a '98/'99 income tax return. When will you
>gormless idiots at ATO realise that thanks to Mr Carmody's
>maladministration of the CSA, ATO is now unworthy of any respect
>whatsoever.
Irrelevant. Not a defence to the offence that you are committing.
>Accordingly I advise that until ATO comply with the law, the
>offer of settlement in my letter of 26/10/98 still stands.
Irrelevant. Not a defence.
>1998 I advised your comrade Mr B Peddy where to shove his threats. If
>you want any tax returns from me ever again the Child Support
>Registrar Mr Carmody must properly review my case according to law
and
>the principles of natural justice as per my 1995 application, which
>you ATO THIEVES ignored.
Irrelevant. Not a defence.
>This condition of a fair review is not negotiable. I don't give a
>rat's arse if you are the Deputy Tax Commissioner and have bazillion
>armed cops to enforce your will. As far as I am concerned Mr Carmody
>and everyone who works under his irresponsibilty are thieves, and I
am
>not gonna give you legalised criminals any more private information
to
>abuse until you ATO/CSA thieves meet your side of the 'mutual
>obligation'.
You're begging for a custodial sentence aren't you. Do you know what
they do to people in there?
>Mr Webb, I advise that this is the second time your office, the
Deputy
>Commissioner of Taxation, has threatened me. I put you on notice that
>I consider your harassment to be stalking.
Well, the law does not consider it harassment or stalking. Its the
enforcement of law.
Indeed in each letter you
>threaten to do something nasty to me, either confiscating property or
>throwing me in jail. I advise that I am intimidated by your
>disgraceful behaviour.
You may be intimidated, however, you haven't got any cause of action.
>I put you, Mr R Webb and Mr M Carmody, on formal notice that you are
>engaging in domestic violence.
Well, unless you can place either of the two nominated gentlemen in
your bed, I can't see how you can argue domestic relationship. As is
said, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. You have read a
few acts, and know a few terms and believe you have a legal knowledge.
Accordingly I warn you that any further
>aiding and abbetting of Ms XXXXXXXXXXX's harassment campaign against
>me will result in you being dealt with in accordance with SA Domestic
>Violence procedure.
You have really lost touch with reality. It will return quickly when
your in gaol and having plenty of relationships. Most of them
probably not wanted.
>Thank you for your time. Please send me two copies of tax-pack forms
>for each of year end '97, '98, '99 so I can meet my legal
>obligations.
Oh, so you want to do them now?
I would have a really good read of s.56 of the Evidence Act.
Darkside
to...@whyalla.net.au
"Darkside" <darks...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Tony Hancock wrote in message
> <38953c05...@news.whyalla.net.au>...
>
> >I refer to your threatening letter dated 27 Jan 2000 in which you
> >demand lodgement of a '98/'99 income tax return. When will you
> >gormless idiots at ATO realise that thanks to Mr Carmody's
> >maladministration of the CSA, ATO is now unworthy of any respect
> >whatsoever.
>
> Irrelevant. Not a defence to the offence that you are committing.
Actually it is. Duress, Sudden or extraordinary emergency and self
defence.
Basically the information boycott of the ATO is an emergency measure to
limit damage while I collect evidence and pursue legal action for
relief in the appropriate forum.
As I am not a lawyer and cannot afford a lawyer, primarily due to Tax
Commissioner's unlawful conduct, that process has taken some time. In
addition the Tax Commissioner's evasive and dishonest conduct (it's all
in writing) has unneccessarily extended the investigation. So the
Commissioner himself has contributed to the repeat offences.
> >Accordingly I advise that until ATO comply with the law, the
> >offer of settlement in my letter of 26/10/98 still stands.
>
> Irrelevant. Not a defence.
It indicates that as an emergency measure I attempted to protect
my property from unlawful appropriation by lawful means.
The Tax Commissioner refused to comply with the law so I had
to take more drastic action to protect my property in the
interim while taking appropriate action to force Commish to
comply with the law.
Now I got enough evidence this will go to court soon enough.
[snip]
> >Thank you for your time. Please send me two copies of tax-pack forms
> >for each of year end '97, '98, '99 so I can meet my legal
> >obligations.
>
> Oh, so you want to do them now?
No, not do the returns, just fulfill my legal obligations by
lodging the forms :-)
> I would have a really good read of s.56 of the Evidence Act.
Thanks. Done that.
Cheers
Tony Hancock
--
The Child Support Agency is beyond minor repair. It is in need of major
surgery. Whether the government is up to the task, we will wait and see.
Senator Brownhill Dec 5 1994
http://www.internettrash.com/users/csawatch
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rod Speed
<to...@whyalla.net.au> wrote in message news:87dljq$fvc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>>> I refer to your threatening letter dated 27 Jan 2000 in which you
>>> demand lodgement of a '98/'99 income tax return. When will you
>>> gormless idiots at ATO realise that thanks to Mr Carmody's
>>> maladministration of the CSA, ATO is now unworthy of any respect
>>> whatsoever.
>> Irrelevant. Not a defence to the offence that you are committing.
> Actually it is.
Actually it aint.
> Duress, Sudden or extraordinary emergency and self defence.
Pathetic really. Not a clue to your name as far as that
being any defence to the offence that you are committing.
Its irrelevant.
> Basically the information boycott of the ATO is an emergency
> measure to limit damage while I collect evidence and pursue
> legal action for relief in the appropriate forum.
Easy to claim. Fat chance of that ever flying either.
> As I am not a lawyer and cannot afford a lawyer, primarily due to Tax
> Commissioner's unlawful conduct, that process has taken some time.
Easy to claim. Fat chance of that ever flying either.
> In addition the Tax Commissioner's evasive and dishonest conduct
> (it's all in writing) has unneccessarily extended the investigation.
> So the Commissioner himself has contributed to the repeat offences.
Easy to claim. Fat chance of that ever flying either.
>>> Accordingly I advise that until ATO comply with the law,
>>> the offer of settlement in my letter of 26/10/98 still stands.
>> Irrelevant. Not a defence.
> It indicates that as an emergency measure I attempted to protect
> my property from unlawful appropriation by lawful means.
Irrelevant. Not a defence.
> The Tax Commissioner refused to comply with the law
Easy to claim. Fat chance of that ever flying either.
> so I had to take more drastic action to protect my property in the interim
> while taking appropriate action to force Commish to comply with the law.
Easy to claim. Fat chance of that ever flying either.
> Now I got enough evidence this will go to court soon enough.
Easy to claim. Fat chance of that ever flying either.
>>> Thank you for your time. Please send me two
>>> copies of tax-pack forms for each of year end
>>> '97, '98, '99 so I can meet my legal obligations.
>> Oh, so you want to do them now?
> No, not do the returns, just fulfill my legal obligations by lodging the forms :-)
Pathetic really.
>> I would have a really good read of s.56 of the Evidence Act.
> Thanks. Done that.
Pity that more than your ear to ear dog shit is need for that to be any use at all.
Darkside
mirrored evidence legislation), its all about relevant evidence.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ea199580/s56.html
Darkside.
Simon Slade wrote in message
<389A0066...@camattalempens.com.au>...
s 56 of the Evidence Act is "Banking Records Part 6"
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/ea192980/s56.html
Although I pretty much agree with the rest of your reply
Simon Slade
Darkside wrote:
Tony Hancock wrote in message
<38953c05...@news.whyalla.net.au>...
>I refer to your threatening letter dated 27 Jan 2000 in which you
>demand lodgement of a '98/'99 income tax return. When will you
>gormless idiots at ATO realise that thanks to Mr Carmody's
>maladministration of the CSA, ATO is now unworthy of any respect
>whatsoever.
Irrelevant. Not a defence to the offence that you are committing.
>Accordingly I advise that until ATO comply with the law, the
>offer of settlement in my letter of 26/10/98 still stands.
Irrelevant. Not a defence.
>1998 I advised your comrade Mr B Peddy where to shove his
Irrelevant. Not a defence.
>Thank you for your time. Please send me two copies of tax-pack
forms
>for each of year end '97, '98, '99 so I can meet my legal
>obligations.
Oh, so you want to do them now?
I would have a really good read of s.56 of the Evidence Act.
Darkside
Darkside
>
>defence.
What dark little place in your mind did you drag this from?
It is no defence, it is irrelevant. Take some time to read up on
strict and absolute liability offences. There is nothing but trouble
along the road you are choosing to walk.
>Basically the information boycott of the ATO is an emergency measure
to
>limit damage while I collect evidence and pursue legal action for
>relief in the appropriate forum.
It will have no relevence in your prosecution.
>As I am not a lawyer and cannot afford a lawyer,
Take some advice then. 1. You are either a nut case, or 2. You are
taking advice from some other nutcases. The same one who argue that
the Magna Carta gives us the right to carry firearms, the same ones
who argue a entire range of legal arguments that can only be sustained
for those ignorant of the legal system, other than simple little
proceedures.
If you want any chance of winning in the end, or of breaking even, and
perhaps of staying out of gaol, then get back onto the mainstream.
There are ways to address government wrongs. Administrative law is
very complex. But you cannot win by arguing legal myths like you are
trying. Your opinions of what is right and wrong won't mean much when
your sitting in gaol pandering to all the needs of your cell mate/s.
>No, not do the returns, just fulfill my legal obligations by
>lodging the forms :-)
Of all law, tax law is the most complex in my opinion. Not so much as
to the legal principles, but to the abundance of material which must
be considered. You have far more of an obligation than simply lodging
the forms.
>> I would have a really good read of s.56 of the Evidence Act.
OK, now spend some time getting to understand the golden rule of
evidence. That is, relevance. All of this other stuff will not be
admitted when you are being prosecuted.
Darkside.
Tony Hancock
wrote:
G'day,
Thanks for the rational advice. With all due respect I don't care if I
end up in jail over this. When tyranny becomes law resistance becomes
a duty.
My protest is political rather than legal, as should be obvious by now
:-), and political concerns do come into play bigtime in this case. In
a sense ATO and I hold loaded guns to each other's heads. And my gun
is bigger than theirs. Tax Commissioner Carmody will have to
personally deal with the fallout should he or his minions decide to
prosecute.
The Joint Select Committee report tabled in 1994 found illegal
activity in CSA under the administration of the Tax Commissioner.
Neither the executive or legislative arms of government have dealt
with the illegal activity and it continues to this day.
I now have conclusive evidence of Carmody's illegal conduct. It's
taken years to collect but I finally got it. Carmody is screwed no
matter which way he squirms.
Now, ATO can prosecute me for non lodgement if they want to. But I
suspect that when Carmody sees the evidence against him he won't want
to attract any attention to it by, say, provoking me to forward copies
of it to the media.
Carmody has written that ATO must maintain credibility with the
community in order to perform its functions. A scandal about
widespread corruption reaching all the way to the office of Tax
Commissioner would undermine ATO's credibility just a tad.
Maybe my defence to non-lodgement isn't legal, but legal points don't
matter to the media or the voters who do have a perception of right
and wrong.
This dispute began when Carmody refused to act, in accordance with the
Child Support (assessment) Act, on information that he asked me for
and I provided. The effect of acting on that information would've been
the public purse would've been out of pocket a few hundred dollars.
Since that time CSA threatened to cut off my ex's dole if she
discussed *contact* with me. She didn't believe my advice that CSA
can't do that and so I had to take her to family court.
The effect of CSA's bullshit threat is that $24,000 of taxpayer's
money has been blown in legal aid to my ex and the child's
representative.
This $24K is more than the Child Support Rort will ever claw back from
welfare from my ex over her lifetime. Certainly makes a mockery of the
notion that CSA saves the taxpayers money. The ministers for DoFACS
have been advised of this in writing and they have a copy of the page
of the affidavit where my ex swears that CSA threatened her.
If Carmody wants to throw me in jail and waste another $45,000 of
taxpayers' money that's fine by me. I can guarantee there will be
political fallout. Especially when all I'm asking is for the Tax
Commissioner to comply with the law, same as he expects me to do.
Anyway, I doubt a prosecution will be forthcoming. ATO have a system
for handling non-lodgement and prioritising prosecution. I'm way down
the list. I'm pursuing commish through the appropriate channels and I
anticipate that he'll comply with his obligations before I reach the
top of the list.
Unless of course ATO fast-track me for bagging them and speaking out
about their abuse. We'll see.
Rod Speed
Tony Handcock <to...@whyalla.net.au> wrote in message news:389b582a...@news.whyalla.net.au...>>> Darkside <darks...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>> Irrelevant. Not a defence to the offence that you are committing.
>>> Actually it is. Duress, Sudden or extraordinary emergency and self defence.
>> What dark little place in your mind did you drag this from?
>> It is no defence, it is irrelevant. Take some time to read
>> up on strict and absolute liability offences. There is nothing
>> but trouble along the road you are choosing to walk.
>>> Basically the information boycott of the ATO is an emergency
>>> measure to limit damage while I collect evidence and pursue
>>> legal action for relief in the appropriate forum.
>> It will have no relevence in your prosecution.
>>> As I am not a lawyer and cannot afford a lawyer,
>> Take some advice then. 1. You are either a nut case,
>> or 2. You are taking advice from some other nutcases.
Or both.
>> The same one who argue that the Magna Carta gives us the
>> right to carry firearms, the same ones who argue a entire range
>> of legal arguments that can only be sustained for those ignorant
>> of the legal system, other than simple little proceedures.
>> If you want any chance of winning in the end, or of breaking even,
>> and perhaps of staying out of gaol, then get back onto the mainstream.
>> There are ways to address government wrongs. Administrative law is
>> very complex. But you cannot win by arguing legal myths like you are
>> trying. Your opinions of what is right and wrong won't mean much
>> when your sitting in gaol pandering to all the needs of your cell mate/s.
> With all due respect I don't care if I end up in jail over this.
Yep, its clearly what you want. All the better to posture with.
You'll get your jail term.
Great.
> When tyranny becomes law resistance becomes a duty.
Hari Krishna, Hari Hari Hari.
Wota pity it fools absolutely no one at all.
> My protest is political rather than legal, as should be obvious by now :-),
Corse it is.
> and political concerns do come into play bigtime in this case.
Only in your pathetic excuse for a 'mind'
> In a sense ATO and I hold loaded guns to each other's heads.
You aint holding anything to anyone's head boy.
All you're holding is your dick basically. As usual.
> And my gun is bigger than theirs.
Pathetic really. Are YOU in for a big surprise.
> Tax Commissioner Carmody will have to personally deal
> with the fallout should he or his minions decide to prosecute.
Pathetic really.
> The Joint Select Committee report tabled in 1994 found illegal
> activity in CSA under the administration of the Tax Commissioner.
Wrong. Again. And no select committee
gets to make any findings on points of law.
> Neither the executive or legislative arms of government have
> dealt with the illegal activity and it continues to this day.
Only in your pathetically warped little 'mind'
> I now have conclusive evidence of Carmody's illegal conduct.
Only in your pathetically warped little 'mind'
> It's taken years to collect but I finally got it.
Only in your pathetically warped little 'mind'
> Carmody is screwed no matter which way he squirms.
Only in your pathetically warped little 'mind'
> Now, ATO can prosecute me for non lodgement if they want to.
They can indeed. And will. You watch.
> But I suspect that when Carmody sees the evidence
> against him he won't want to attract any attention to it by,
> say, provoking me to forward copies of it to the media.
Yet another of your pathetic little fantasys. You watch.
> Carmody has written that ATO must maintain credibility
> with the community in order to perform its functions.
And letting a complete loony like you get away with
flouting the tax law aint any way to do that, stupid.
> A scandal about widespread corruption reaching all the way to the
> office of Tax Commissioner would undermine ATO's credibility just a tad.
Only in your pathetically warped little 'mind'
> Maybe my defence to non-lodgement isn't legal,
Aint no maybe about it boy.
> but legal points don't matter to the media
They aint the ones who decide whether its off to jail for you boy.
> or the voters who do have a perception of right and wrong.
They aint the ones who decide whether its off to jail for you boy.
> This dispute began when Carmody refused to act, in
> accordance with the Child Support (assessment) Act,
> on information that he asked me for and I provided.
Thats your CLAIM, a different matter entirely.
If it was that black and white, there are perfectly
adequate appeal mechanisms available.
> The effect of acting on that information would've been the public
> purse would've been out of pocket a few hundred dollars.
Completely and utterly irrelevant to your offense. As usual.
> Since that time CSA threatened to cut off my
> ex's dole if she discussed *contact* with me.
Easy to claim.
> She didn't believe my advice that CSA can't
> do that and so I had to take her to family court.
> The effect of CSA's bullshit threat is that $24,000 of taxpayer's money
> has been blown in legal aid to my ex and the child's representative.
Completely and utterly irrelevant to your offense. As usual.
> This $24K is more than the Child Support Rort will ever claw
> back from welfare from my ex over her lifetime. Certainly makes
> a mockery of the notion that CSA saves the taxpayers money.
Completely and utterly irrelevant to your offense. As usual.
> The ministers for DoFACS have been advised of this
> in writing and they have a copy of the page of the
> affidavit where my ex swears that CSA threatened her.
Completely and utterly irrelevant to your offense. As usual.
> If Carmody wants to throw me in jail and waste another
> $45,000 of taxpayers' money that's fine by me.
Fine by him too, you watch.
> I can guarantee there will be political fallout.
You can 'guarantee' absolutely NOTHING.
> Especially when all I'm asking is for the Tax Commissioner
> to comply with the law, same as he expects me to do.
Pathetic really. Even the media knows a
complete raving nutter when they see one.
> Anyway, I doubt a prosecution will be forthcoming. ATO have
> a system for handling non-lodgement and prioritising prosecution.
And clowns like you that flout the law so
flagrantly have the highest priority. You watch.
> I'm way down the list.
Wrong. Again.
> I'm pursuing commish through the appropriate channels and I anticipate
> that he'll comply with his obligations before I reach the top of the list.
Been having these pathetic little fantasys long have you Handcock ?
> Unless of course ATO fast-track me for bagging
> them and speaking out about their abuse. We'll see.
We will indeed. Off to jail for you.
Darkside
Are you aware what actually occurs in gaol? The regular and
widespread sexual assaults, the violence and mistreatment by other
prisoners?
Perhaps you feel you have a duty now, while your sitting free, using
the internet, plotting to expose alleged corruption.
Have you done time before? Your entire attitude may change when your
sitting inside, waiting to be let into the exercise yard for a few
hours. Asking yourself what happened to the concept of concent prior
to sex.
Dude, we live in a big game. You've got to know the rules to play by
and to win. There are other lawful ways to achieve what you want to
achieve, but by giving others reasons to proceed against you, you are
ensuring that you are on the loosing side.
If you have what you say you have, in the way of evidence, (and I
sincerely doubt that you do), then meet your legal obligations then
pursue them from a position where you aren't leaving yourself legally
vunerable.
Matter for yourself but when they finally win, you'll realise, it
would have been a whole lot easier to play by the rules. You probably
would still loose, but you wouldn't have lost so much.
Darkside.
Tony Hancock wrote in message
<389b582a...@news.whyalla.net.au>...
jac...@melbpc.org.au
wrote:
>I can't but help feel sorry for you Tony.
>Are you aware what actually occurs in gaol? The regular and
>widespread sexual assaults, the violence and mistreatment by other
>prisoners?
>
>Perhaps you feel you have a duty now, while your sitting free, using
>the internet, plotting to expose alleged corruption.
>
>Have you done time before? Your entire attitude may change when your
>sitting inside, waiting to be let into the exercise yard for a few
>hours. Asking yourself what happened to the concept of concent prior
>to sex.
Thanks for raising this issue.
A number of times you've referred to prison rape.
What is the extent of your knowledge and experience on this matter?
Are you campaigning to highlight and prevent it?
I ask because it appears that governments permit it as part of the
punishment process - a (large) factor in what you mention to Tony.
Darkside
<38a31e24....@news.melbpc.org.au>...
>Thanks for raising this issue.
>A number of times you've referred to prison rape.
It is perhaps the most horrific part of being setenced to
incarceration, anywhere in the world. Many people who do not have a
knowledge of this aspect of incarceration, consider that it may be a
walk in the park.
>What is the extent of your knowledge and experience on this matter?
I could refer you to an extract published in the NSW Law Society
Journal late last year (I'm not going to dig through my old issues at
this stage to find the exact one). The extract was from a book just
published by author, magistrate and legal practitioner David Heilpern
which highlights such abuses which occur. Off the top of my head, I
think it was in the September issue. I have December at my desk, and
it wasn't in there.
>Are you campaigning to highlight and prevent it?
Nope. From a personal position, I don't care.
>I ask because it appears that governments permit it as part of the
>punishment process - a (large) factor in what you mention to Tony.
It is one thing to be sentenced for a few years, sitting inside. It
is another during those few years to be subject to a systematic
physical and sexual assault. It is definitely a large factor to be
considered, particularly when approaching a position from a "political
duty", as Tony has.
The government, short of having each prisoner physically isolated,
could never stop it. I doubt whether there would be any evidence
available to show they permit it.
Darkside
Alecto
>
> jac...@melbpc.org.au wrote in message
> <38a31e24....@news.melbpc.org.au>...
> >On Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:21:56 +1100, "Darkside" <darks...@yahoo.com>
> >wrote:
>
> >Thanks for raising this issue.
> >A number of times you've referred to prison rape.
>
> The government, short of having each prisoner physically isolated,
> could never stop it. I doubt whether there would be any evidence
> available to show they permit it.
They could stop it ,all they would have to do is put all the homosexual
prisoners in one prison together ,and all the heterosexual ones in the
other prisons.
ALecto.
Darkside
Alecto wrote in message <389CDDC2...@goulburn.net.au>...
>They could stop it ,all they would have to do is put all the
homosexual
>prisoners in one prison together ,and all the heterosexual ones in
the
>other prisons.
I'm not sure if this was meant as a joke or not. However, if its not,
you are sadly mistaken. Rape in prisons have little to do with
homosexuality. Most of those who participate in homosexual
intercourse, even by consent, do not consider themselves homosexual
outside (regardless of definitions, they do not regard themselves as
such).
Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do with
homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power and aggression.
It is an act of dominance, and an act of power. It is the abuse,
degradation and humilation of the victim.
Darkside.
Eiley
>>
>> jac...@melbpc.org.au wrote in message
>> <38a31e24....@news.melbpc.org.au>...
>> >On Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:21:56 +1100, "Darkside" <darks...@yahoo.com>
>> >wrote:
>>
>> >Thanks for raising this issue.
>> >A number of times you've referred to prison rape.
>>
>snip
>> The government, short of having each prisoner physically isolated,
>> could never stop it. I doubt whether there would be any evidence
>> available to show they permit it.
>
>prisoners in one prison together ,and all the heterosexual ones in the
>other prisons.
>
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Are you truly that naive/stupid? Sexual preference has absolutely NOTHING
to do with rape in prison. Heterosexual males rape other males in order to
prove dominance and establish the gaol pecking order. Rape in male prisons
does not even have anything to do with sex (although a usual practice is to
sticky tape a Penthouse centrefold to your back while its being done). Show
an attitude and the bad boys will shove something up your arse because they
know that this is most men's greatest fear and a good way to "show you your
place". Or else they will force you to give them a headjob to humiliate
you.
Even solitary confinement doesn't necessarily help. When my cousin was in
Pentridge, all the regular prisoners used to get locked down for an hour
while the rock spiders (pedophiles) got let out for their exercise. They
still had to walk past the other cells though, so all the regular prisoners
used to boil water and throw it on the rock spiders as they went past.
Can't say I exactly had a great deal of sympathy for them.
Prison is not a nice place. Some of these men take great pleasure in
intricately working out the most effective ways of causing pain and
humiliation to others. They have nothing but time on their hands. And
don't think you won't be put in with "those types" - my cousin was in for a
drink-driving offence and was in the same block as murderers, rapists etc.
Luckily for him, he is an extremely big boy, but he still broke his arm in 3
places fighting off attackers on day 2.
If you're Mike Tyson, maybe you don't need to worry about going to prison.
Otherwise, if I were a man, I'd do everything possible to keep out.
eiley
Rod Speed
Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389CDDC2...@goulburn.net.au...
> Darkside wrote:
>> jac...@melbpc.org.au wrote
>>> Darkside <darks...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> A number of times you've referred to prison rape.
>> The government, short of having each prisoner physically
>> isolated, could never stop it. I doubt whether there would
>> be any evidence available to show they permit it.
> They could stop it,
Not this way.
> all they would have to do is put all the homosexual prisoners in one
> prison together ,and all the heterosexual ones in the other prisons.
Its nothing like that easy. There are plenty who only do much homo
sex in jail and no easy way to work out which those are on admission.
There's also no easy way to work out which of those
admitted to jail are likely to get up to that sort of thing
and say just have separate jails for them either.
Dave Proctor
>They could stop it ,all they would have to do is put all the homosexual
>prisoners in one prison together ,and all the heterosexual ones in the
>other prisons.
Oh dear - how naive can one get?
Sexual preference has absolutely no bearing on the incidence of homosexual
activities in a controlled environment like a prison (also the battlefield,
etc). People will make do with what is around, not what they prefer.
Dave
Rod Speed
Dave Proctor <thad...@spambait.dingoblue.net.au> wrote
in message news:87j78g$lfn$1...@news1.mpx.com.au...
> Alecto wrote
>> They could stop it ,all they would have to do is put
>> all the homosexual prisoners in one prison together ,
>> and all the heterosexual ones in the other prisons.
> Oh dear - how naive can one get?
> Sexual preference has absolutely no bearing on the incidence of homosexual
> activities in a controlled environment like a prison (also the battlefield,
> etc). People will make do with what is around, not what they prefer.
Ask any NZer.
Alecto
> homosexual
> the
> >other prisons.
>
> you are sadly mistaken. Rape in prisons have little to do with
> homosexuality. Most of those who participate in homosexual
> intercourse, even by consent, do not consider themselves homosexual
> outside (regardless of definitions, they do not regard themselves as
> such).
There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,being in
jail allows them to 'come out' ,as soon as they showed their true colors
they would be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
>
> Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do with
> homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power and aggression.
> It is an act of dominance, and an act of power. It is the abuse,
> degradation and humilation of the victim.
Then we should single out these people and put them in a jail together
too.
Alecto.
Darkside
Alecto wrote in message <389D47C9...@goulburn.net.au>...
>There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,being in
>jail allows them to 'come out' ,as soon as they showed their true
colors
>they would be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
You would simply be moving the entire gaol population from the present
gaol to "your gaol".
You simply don't seem to understand, that the majority of prisoners
indulge in this type of behaviour. If you ever actually speak to
prisoners, they call it "gaol sex" and say that it doesn't count.
The problem is not isolated to a few, its the majority. Either by
consent, but generally first, by force. It is part of the culture of
living inside. The strongest trade the weaker ones, for cigarettes,
for favours or for fun.
This is combined with the higher rates of HIV and Hep A, B, C which
occur in prison. The rape is the start, the contraction of disease is
the next step.
Some will willingly conceded to an individual so that they are no
longer abused by groups. It is a very ugly setup. Again, I recommend
you reading the book, the title of which escapes me, which was
reviewed in one of last years Law Society of NSW Journal. It is
written after comprehensive research. It is frightening.
>
>Then we should single out these people and put them in a jail
together
>too.
You really don't understand what you are speaking about with comments
such as this.
Darkside.
Alecto
>
> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389CDDC2...@goulburn.net.au...
> > Darkside wrote:
> >> jac...@melbpc.org.au wrote
> >>> Darkside <darks...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> >>> A number of times you've referred to prison rape.
>
> >> The government, short of having each prisoner physically
> >> isolated, could never stop it. I doubt whether there would
> >> be any evidence available to show they permit it.
>
> > They could stop it,
>
> Not this way.
>
> > prison together ,and all the heterosexual ones in the other prisons.
>
> sex in jail and no easy way to work out which those are on admission.
On admission no ,but I'm sure they would show their true colors shortly
after.
>
> There's also no easy way to work out which of those
> admitted to jail are likely to get up to that sort of thing
> and say just have separate jails for them either.
I imagine they have surveillance cameras in jail.
Alecto.
Alecto
> >prisoners in one prison together ,and all the heterosexual ones in the
> >other prisons.
>
>
> Sexual preference has absolutely no bearing on the incidence of homosexual
> activities in a controlled environment like a prison (also the battlefield,
> etc). People will make do with what is around, not what they prefer.
>
A true heterosexual would NEVER perform homosexual sex ,if there's no
woman available then it's Mrs. Palmer or nothing ,the people you are
talking about ARE homosexual.
Alecto.
Darkside
I'm interested in the original posters thoughts about political duty
etc after reading this.
Out of the shadows
The horrific personal account of a prison rape victim from Fear or
favour: sexual assault of young prisoners , by David Heilpern. The
extract is published with the consent of the author.
“The first time I went to jail I was 18 years old. I had gone AWOL
from the navy, was living with three prostitutes, and befriended an
older guy. We decided to pull an armed robbery of a small store. A
policeman happened to be in the area, and after a long chase we were
arrested and went to jail. We ended up in different areas. I was 1.83m
and weighed about 82 kilos. I wasn’t a small guy and figured I could
pretty well take care of myself. I was in for a big surprise.
“There were 20 men in my area. It was split into two 10-man pods with
5 bunk beds in each pod. A day room was between them. The day room had
four large steel tables to eat on; a toilet and shower was in the
rear.
“The first night I was approached by three men. Two of them were about
my size and the third was about 9 kilos and 15cms smaller. They asked
who I was and what I was in for. I told them and then one of them
asked if I had ever been fucked. I said, “no, and I wasn't planning on
it”. He said, “we're going to fuck you”.
“I was filled with fear like I had never felt before. I swung at him
with a left hook and as he blocked it his partner swung and hit me in
the face knocking me to the floor. One of them grabbed me by the hair
and slammed my face into the concrete, knocking me out.
“When I woke I was on my stomach. My pants had been pulled off; my
legs were spread wide apart, with one guy sitting on each leg and the
other guy laying on my back. The guy on top was slapping me awake and
said “I want you to feel this.”
“He proceeded to drive his cock deep into my butt. I had never felt
such pain and tried to get away. They held me in such a way I knew
they had done this to someone before. He fucked me for what seemed
like forever and then came in me. Then he switched places with another
one, and all three raped me. After it was over I was held in a head
lock while they debated if they should kill me or not. I was asked if
I was going to snitch and I told them “no”. They said they would kill
me if I said anything to anyone. I really thought I was going to die.
“The next day they left me alone. I was numb and didn’t know what to
do. I was raised not to dob on people and to handle my own problems.
As much as I wanted to, I rejected snitching as an option. I was
looking at five years to life in prison for the armed robbery. If I
snitched and then went to prison they could very easily have me
killed. I was so terrified and filled with shame and fear. My options
were so limited, I felt paralysed and helpless. I had no one to talk
to, or to help me. That night the same three came back to my bunk.
They said I was theirs now and it would do no good to try and fight
because they’d just take me down and hurt me again even worse than
before. My head was throbbing from the beating, my right eye was black
and swollen shut, and my butt hurt They told me to take a shower and
shave all the hair off my body From the neck down. I was just like a
robot and did what they said. Going along was better than getting beat
or killed. I didn’t reason it out, I just did it.
“After shaving they told me I was going to give them all head. I didn’
t want to and resisted. I said “please don’t make me do this”.
“I couldn’t imagine sucking a man’s cock! I was slapped and my head
was forced down to the first guy’s cock by my hair. I started sucking
his cock and he gave me instructions on how to suck it. He grabbed me
by the hair and forced his cock down my throat when he came. I thought
he was going to gag me to death and I puked on the floor after he let
go. The others must have been turned off ‘cause they left me alone
that night.
“I was still in shock the next day and wondered what would happen next
. I even thought about killing myself.
“The next night the same three came to me again. This time they told
me to take off my pants. I was given Vaseline and told to lay on my
stomach and put some on my butt I did what I was told. This time they
told me to help by pushing like I was taking a shit as he pushed his
cock in my ass. It made it a lot easier as he took his time working it
in making it less painful. It was still uncomfortable and I felt like
I had to take a shit while he was in me. This time he fucked me like
he would probably fuck a woman and it wasn’t near as bad as the first
time. The second guy fucked me about the same way while the third had
me give him head at the same time.
“There was nothing pleasurable about it yet I was perplexed about
getting a hard on. I was afraid about it because I thought they would
beat me if they saw it. I also wondered if I could be homosexual. That
really bothered me! I now know that when a man’s prostate gland is
stimulated he will get an involuntary hard on. It was very confusing
at the time. I was able to keep them from noticing because they always
had me lay on my stomach for sex.
“Things started to taper off after this and they weren’t so demanding.
I would have sex with one of them at a time, and at different times.
However others in the pod started to become interested. I would be
woken up at different times of the night and asked to perform sex. I
would just do it rather than risk being beaten.
“The men began to treat me gently and after a week or so they started
letting me play cards with them and gave me candy bars and stuff.
Before that I was ostracised. No one talked to me nor would they eat
with me.
“After a time some of them would even protect me against the three
that originally raped me. They would abuse me and asked things like
“do you like getting fucked in the ass bitch?” and “what would your
girl friends think of you now?”. They even got into my things and
wrote to the girls I had been living with. Sometimes they would pull
my hair or slap me while I gave them head.
“The other guys started to get on them about it. I appreciated them
sticking up for me and started to like them. These other guys treated
me real well during sex. Some of them preferred getting head and some
liked fucking better. Even though I wasn’t saying no any more, they
all knew they were raping me. I knew it was established that I was a
sex toy and if I ever flat refused I’d be beaten badly. I thought of
the first three as violent rapists and the others as opportunists and
in reality nice rapists. They wouldn’t come out and take sex violently
but would take advantage of a scared young person who they knew couldn
’t say no.
“At this point I was trapped in this role. I reasoned that I had
better just make the best of it and get past this the best I could.
After a while the sex wasn’t all unpleasurable. However I became
rudely aware of what frustration many, many women go through.
“It all came to an end when they gave a guy a blanket party and shoved
a sharp lead pencil up his ass. The investigators wanted me to tell
them who did it, and told me they knew what was happening to me on
that block. I told them to go fuck themselves. It really pissed me off
that they wanted to know what happened to the other guy but wouldn’t
stop what was happening to me. They are truly fucking pigs! They put
me in an isolation cell after that. I went to a different prison and
luckily what happened didn’t follow me and I never had problems with
that again. I became very aggressive and would fight at the drop of a
hat.
“The bad thing is that I took that aggression with me to the streets
when I got out. Now I’m doing a life sentence for killing someone who
threatened me. I’m 1.85m and weigh 114 kilos. I’m a power lifter now
and run with some of the most feared guys in the joint. None of my
friends would ever believe this happened to me. If you put me in a
room with those three rapists today they’d be climbing the walls
trying to get away, and begging for their lives. I’d break their arms
and legs one by one and leave them squirming on the floor withering in
pain. If l ever get out of prison, WOE to the man who ever rapes or
abuses a women or child around me!”
Alecto
>
> Alecto wrote in message <389D47C9...@goulburn.net.au>...
>
> >There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,being in
> >jail allows them to 'come out' ,as soon as they showed their true
> colors
> >they would be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
>
> You would simply be moving the entire gaol population from the present
> gaol to "your gaol".
I find that hard to believe ,surely all the men in jail aren't sex mad.
> You simply don't seem to understand, that the majority of prisoners
> indulge in this type of behaviour. If you ever actually speak to
> prisoners, they call it "gaol sex" and say that it doesn't count.
Perhaps low IQ + latent homosexuality = end up in jail.
>
> The problem is not isolated to a few, its the majority. Either by
> consent, but generally first, by force. It is part of the culture of
> living inside. The strongest trade the weaker ones, for cigarettes,
> for favours or for fun.
It is these 'strongest' people that I would segregate ,as they are the
instigators.
>
> This is combined with the higher rates of HIV and Hep A, B, C which
> occur in prison. The rape is the start, the contraction of disease is
> the next step.
That's precisely why it must be stopped.
>
> Some will willingly conceded to an individual so that they are no
> longer abused by groups.
Then that individual must be segregated.
Alecto.
Alecto
under the present system ,let's go back to corporal punishment.
Alecto.
to...@whyalla.net.au
"Darkside" <darks...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[snip]
> Dude, we live in a big game. You've got to know the rules to play by
> and to win. There are other lawful ways to achieve what you want to
> achieve,
Indeed there are. And it is now clear that Reg set out to thwart those
rules of due process in many cases.
Simple stuff like:
- failing to issue required notices advising people they can appeal
decisions.
- telling people they cannot appeal when in fact they can.
- refusing people the legislated right to present their case before the
Commissioner.
- ignoring evidence of grounds for departure and telling payers he'll
only consider that ground if they lodge an application that does not
include that ground.
- telling payers the only course for appeal from his kangaroo court is
family court, in the same letter advising them that his kangaroo court
determined to take ALL their disposable income including ALL the money
for contact visits (so they cannot afford contact with their children
let alone afford to appeal Reg's decision).
Compound this with the fact that CSA don't give information on
dealing with CSA, Al's Family Court is supposed to do that but doesn't.
With all this railroading of clients into the CSA virtual gulag, the
lawful ways of protecting one's human, civil and political rights
are all but out of reach, in no small part due to Reg.
Using the limited resources available to me I've sniffed out those
lawful ways. It took time to find them, and will take even more time for
justice to run it's course. Legal recourse is well and good, but in the
meantime I've got a family to support.
> but by giving others reasons to proceed against you, you are
> ensuring that you are on the loosing side.
>
> If you have what you say you have, in the way of evidence, (and I
> sincerely doubt that you do), then meet your legal obligations then
> pursue them from a position where you aren't leaving yourself legally
> vunerable.
Point taken.
The main reason for not lodging returns is so that I can afford to keep
working for a living while I wait for Reg to comply with his
obligations. I'm going to be downsized soon so that won't really be an
issue anymore. And even if I do lodge tax returns, unemployment is
effectively an escalation of the ATO boycott :-)
Rod Speed
Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389D47C9...@goulburn.net.au...
> Darkside wrote
>> Alecto wrote
>>> They could stop it ,all they would have to do is put
>>> all the homosexual prisoners in one prison together ,
>>> and all the heterosexual ones in the other prisons.
>> I'm not sure if this was meant as a joke or not. However, if its
>> not, you are sadly mistaken. Rape in prisons have little to do
>> with homosexuality. Most of those who participate in homosexual
>> intercourse, even by consent, do not consider themselves homosexual
>> outside (regardless of definitions, they do not regard themselves as such).
> There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,
Still FAR too simplistic.
> being in jail allows them to 'come out' ,
So you are claiming that a NZer who shags an occasional sheep,
and who also roots women when the opportunity presents itself,
is a 'closet' sheep shagger by natural inclination are you ?
Or is he a 'closet' hetero ?
Your mindless simplistic black and white line doesnt even allow for bisexuals.
> as soon as they showed their true colors they would
> be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
If you're gunna scrutenise them closely enough to catch
them 'showing their true colors', you might as well just
prosecute them and put them in a jail for sex offenders.
Pity about those that get raped in the process of identifying them.
>> Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do
>> with homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power
>> and aggression. It is an act of dominance, and an act of power.
>> It is the abuse, degradation and humilation of the victim.
> Then we should single out these people and put them in a jail together too.
So you plan to have a jail for those who commit driving offenses,
a jail for those who have been convicted of hetero sex offences,
a jail for those who have been convicted of homo sex offences,
a jail for those who have been convicted of drug offenses, etc etc etc ?
Doesnt sound terribly practical.
Rod Speed
Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389D4BB4...@goulburn.net.au...
> Dave Proctor wrote:
>> Alecto wrote
>>> They could stop it ,all they would have to do is put
>>> all the homosexual prisoners in one prison together,
>>> and all the heterosexual ones in the other prisons.
>> Oh dear - how naive can one get?
>> Sexual preference has absolutely no bearing on the incidence of homosexual
>> activities in a controlled environment like a prison (also the battlefield,
>> etc). People will make do with what is around, not what they prefer.
> A true heterosexual would NEVER perform homosexual sex,
> if there's no woman available then it's Mrs. Palmer or nothing,
Yes.
> the people you are talking about ARE homosexual.
Still too simplistic. You're ignoring the bisexuals and those who only
engage in homo sex when there is no other 2 person sex available.
Alecto
>
> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389D4BB4...@goulburn.net.au...
> > A true heterosexual would NEVER perform homosexual sex,
> > if there's no woman available then it's Mrs. Palmer or nothing,
>
> Yes.
>
> > the people you are talking about ARE homosexual.
>
> Still too simplistic. You're ignoring the bisexuals
'bisexuals' are just a type of homosexual in my books.
> and those who only
> engage in homo sex when there is no other 2 person sex available.
Same goes for this type.
Alecto.
Eiley
Alecto wrote in message <389E0DCE...@goulburn.net.au>...
I must admit, I'm a little hurt Alecto that you've responded to everyone's
posts in response to your original naive little post except mine. Though
after reading the line where you said something like
"Perhaps low IQ + latent homosexuality = criminal"
I thought perhaps you were a far-cleverer-than-Rod troll! If so, well done,
the hook has certainly lodged itself firmly in my cheek. What an
exceptionally fabulously stupid line!
Now, rapists in gaol do not do the *receive* part of the activity. If they
were truly homosexual, don't you think they would enthusiastically take part
in both ends, so to speak? Those on the receiving end of a rape have not
consented, so they don't really fit the bill of being homosexual either.
Go back to my original response, which, like others in the thread, pointed
out how gaol rape has little to do with sex and a great deal to do with
power.
I'm also interested if Tony is still keen to make his protest from the
inside?
eiley
Alecto
>
> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389D47C9...@goulburn.net.au...
> > Darkside wrote
> >> Alecto wrote
>
> >>> They could stop it ,all they would have to do is put
> >>> all the homosexual prisoners in one prison together ,
> >>> and all the heterosexual ones in the other prisons.
>
> >> not, you are sadly mistaken. Rape in prisons have little to do
> >> with homosexuality. Most of those who participate in homosexual
> >> intercourse, even by consent, do not consider themselves homosexual
> >> outside (regardless of definitions, they do not regard themselves as such).
>
> > There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,
>
> Still FAR too simplistic.
>
> > being in jail allows them to 'come out' ,
>
> So you are claiming that a NZer who shags an occasional sheep,
> and who also roots women when the opportunity presents itself,
> is a 'closet' sheep shagger by natural inclination are you ?
>
> Or is he a 'closet' hetero ?
Let's not go into that(weather or not NZ'ers shag sheep is subjudice in
my books)
>
> Your mindless simplistic black and white line doesnt even allow for bisexuals.
'bisexuals' are just a type of homosexual.
>
> > as soon as they showed their true colors they would
> > be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
>
> If you're gunna scrutenise them closely enough to catch
> them 'showing their true colors', you might as well just
> prosecute them and put them in a jail for sex offenders.
>
> Pity about those that get raped in the process of identifying them.
With surveillance cameras and brain equipped warders it shouldn't be too
hard to work out who was doing the rooting.
>
> >> Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do
> >> with homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power
> >> and aggression. It is an act of dominance, and an act of power.
> >> It is the abuse, degradation and humilation of the victim.
>
> > Then we should single out these people and put them in a jail together too.
>
> So you plan to have a jail for those who commit driving offenses,
yep ,why get them infected with Aids ,their stay in jail might be short
,and once released they might infect a number of innocent woman before
they realize they have the disease.
Alecto.
Aldis Ozols
>
> 1. You are either a nut case, or 2. You are
> taking advice from some other nutcases.
Or 3. He is more interested in justice than in law.
--
How to Lobby Politicians
http://www.zeta.org.au/~aldis/lobby.html
"Reality is whatever doesn't go away when you stop believing in it."
-- Philip K Dick
Alecto
>
> I must admit, I'm a little hurt Alecto that you've responded to everyone's
> posts in response to your original naive little post except mine.
Sorry to leave you unquenched.
> Though after reading the line where you said something like
>
> "Perhaps low IQ + latent homosexuality = criminal"
I wouldn't go so far as to say that , I said "= end up in jail" ,and was
sarcastically referring to another posters claim that just about
everyone in jail was rooting like rabbits.
>
> I thought perhaps you were a far-cleverer-than-Rod troll! If so, well done,
I'll take that as a compliment.
> the hook has certainly lodged itself firmly in my cheek. What an
> exceptionally fabulously stupid line!
Like it ,it's yours.
>
> Now, rapists in gaol do not do the *receive* part of the activity. If they
> were truly homosexual, don't you think they would enthusiastically take part
> in both ends, so to speak? Those on the receiving end of a rape have not
> consented, so they don't really fit the bill of being homosexual either.
That's true ,and what we really need to do is put all the 'active'
participants (those doing the penis work) in a jail together ,that would
end the 'currency' of 'jail sex' ,we already do this for male/female
prisoners.
Alecto.
Alecto
>
> Alecto wrote in message <389CDDC2...@goulburn.net.au>...
> >They could stop it ,all they would have to do is put all the homosexual
> >prisoners in one prison together ,and all the heterosexual ones in the
> >other prisons.
> >
> >ALecto.
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
>
> Are you truly that naive/stupid? Sexual preference has absolutely NOTHING
> to do with rape in prison. Heterosexual males rape other males in order to
> prove dominance and establish the gaol pecking order.
Heterosexual males DON'T rape other males ,though homosexual males may
,the people you are referring to ARE homosexual ,weather they admit to
it or not.
> Rape in male prisons does not even have anything to do with sex (although a usual practice is to
> sticky tape a Penthouse centrefold to your back while its being done).
The 'Penthouse' magazine is merely a face saving device ,the people
doing the rooting are homosexual.
> Show an attitude and the bad boys will shove something up your arse because they
> know that this is most men's greatest fear and a good way to "show you your
> place". Or else they will force you to give them a headjob to humiliate
> you.
That's just their excuse(perhaps even to themselves) ,they are really
into it for the sexual gratification.
Alecto.
Tony Hancock
Hi Simon,
Please turn off html for usenet. (Consider this the usenet parallel of
flashing high beam at you as a hint to turn off your 2000 watts of
driving lights while approaching oncoming traffic on the highway)
See quoted material below. It's unintelligible to me because of the
billyware bloat.
On Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:31:41 +1030, Simon Slade
<solic...@camattalempens.com.au> wrote:
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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><html>
>It is not about sex but power, as with heterosexual rape.
><p>For reference try this link
><p><A HREF="http://www.thepoint.net/~usul/text/rape.html">http://www.thepoint.net/~usul/text/rape.html</A>
><p>Or try these books and articles
><p>Lee H. Bowker, Prison Victimization, 1980, NY: Elsevier (Chapter 1,
>"Prison Rapes and Their
><br> Origins"-very good);
><p> Stephen Donaldson, Manual/Overview of
>the Prisoner Rape Education Project, 1993,
><br> Brandon, VT: Safer Society Press (practical
>information; see press release;
><p> Daniel Lockwood, Prison Sexual Violence,
>1980, NY: Elsevier (study of New York State
><br> prisons);
><p> Richie J. McMullen, Male Rape: Breaking
>the Silence on the Last Taboo, 1990, London:
><br> GMP Publishers (distributed in USA by
>Alyson Press, Boston)(general);
><p> Gillian C. Mezey and Michael B. King,
>eds., Male Victims of Sexual Assault, 1992, New York:
><br> Oxford Univ. Press (Chapter 4, "Male
>rape in institutional settings");
><p> Anthony M. Scacco, Jr., Rape in Prison,
>1975, Springfield, IL: Charles C. Thomas (mostly on
><br> juvenile detention-first "serious" book
>on prisoner rape);
><p> Anthony M. Scacco, Jr., ed., Male Rape:
>A Casebook of Sexual Aggressions, 1982, NY: AMS
><br> (landmark anthology includes 16 articles
>on confinement);
><p> Carl Weiss and David J. Friar, Terror
>in the Prisons: Homosexual Rape and Why Society
><br> Condones It, 1974, Indianapolis: Bobbs-Merrill
>(journalistic, sensational, but first book on the
><br> subject);
><p> Wayne S. Wooden and Jay Parker, Men Behind
>Bars: Sexual Exploitation in Prison, 1982,
><br> New York: Plenum (excellent; newly reprinted
>in paperback under DaCapo imprint).
><p> ARTICLES (scholarly):
><p> C. L. Anderson, "Males as sexual assault
>victims: multiple levels of trauma," Journal of
><br> Homosexuality 7:2/3, 1981, p. 145-162;
><p> Clemens Bartollas, Stuart J. Miller,
>and Simon Dinitz, "The 'Booty Bandit': a Social Role in a
><br> Juvenile Institution," Journal of Homosexuality
>1:2 (1974), reprinted in Scacco, Male Rape;
><p> idea., "The Exploitation Matrix in a
>Juvenile Institution," Intern. Journ. of Criminology and
><br> Penology 4:257 (1976);
><p> idem, "Staff Exploitation of Inmates:
>The Paradox of Institutional Control" in Il. Drapkin and
><br> E. Viano, eds., Victimology: A New Focus,
>1994, Lexington, MA: Lexington Books; reprinted
><br> in Scacco, Male Rape;
><p> Clemens Bartollas and Christopher M.
>Sieverdes, "the Sexual Victim in a Co-educational
><br> Juvenile Correctional Institution,"
>The Prison Journal, 68:1 (1989);
><p> D. Calderwood, "The male rape victim,"
>Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality 21:5, 1987, p.
><br> 53-55.
><p> Nobuhle R. Chonco, "Sexual Assaults Among
>Male Inmates: A Descriptive Study," The
><br> Prison Journal, 68:1, 1989, p. 72-82;
><p> Correctional Health Care Management series,
>Oct. and Nov. 1993, incl. column by Paula
><br> Travis, sidebars; mostly medical, RTS,
>psychological care;
><p> Donald J. Cotton and A. Nicholas Groth,
>"Sexual Assault in Correctional Institutions:
><br> Prevention and Intervention," in I.
>R. Stuart, ed., Victims of Sexual Aggression: Treatment of
><br> Children, Women and Men, 1984, NY: Van
>Nostrand Reinhold; an earlier version appeared in
><br> The Journal of Prison and Jail Health,
>(1982) 2:1;
><p> Alan J. Davis, "Sexual Assaults in the
>Philadelphia Prison System and Sheriff's Vans,"
><br> Transaction, 6 (2), 1968, p. 8-16; reprinted
>in Scacco, ed., Male Rape and elsewhere;
><p> Stephen Donaldson, "Prisons, Jails and
>Reformatories," "Punk," and "Rape of Males" in
><br> Wayne R. Dynes, ed., Encyclopedia of
>Homosexuality, vol. 2, 1990, NY: Garland, p.
><br> 1035-1048, 1085-1086, and 1094-1098;
><p> Robert W. Dumond, "The Sexual Assault
>of Male Inmates in Incarcerated Settings," Intern. J.
><br> of the Sociology of Law, 1992, vol.
>20, p. 135-157;
><p> Helen Eigenberg, "Male Rape: An Empirical
>Examination of Correctional Officers' Attitudes
><br> Toward Rape in Prison," The Prison Journal
>68:1, 1989, p. 39-56;
><p> idem, "Rape in Male Prisons: Examining
>the Relationship Between Correctional Officers'
><br> Attitudes Toward Male Rape and their
>Willingness to Respond to Acts of Rape," in Michael C.
><br> Braswell, et al., eds., Prison Violence
>in America, 2nd ed., Cincinatti: Anderson, p. 145-165;
><p> Mark C. Evans, "The Needs of a Blue-Eyed
>Arab: Crisis Intervention with Male Sexual
><br> Assault Survivors" in Mic Hunter, ed.,
>The Sexually Abused Male, vol. 1, 1990, Lexington,
><br> MA: Lexington;
><p> A. Nicholas Groth and Ann W. Burgess,
>"Male Rape: Offenders and Victims," American
><br> Journal of Psychiatry, 137:7, 1980,
>p. 806-819;
><p> Richard S. Jones and Thomas J. Schaid,
>"Inmates' Conceptions of Prison Sexual Assault,"
><br> The Prison Journal, 68:1, 1989, p. 53-61;
><p> Robert A. Martin (Stephen Donaldson),
>"Gang Rape in D.C. Jail" in Pamela Portwood, et al.,
><br> eds., Rebirth of Power, 1987, Racine,
>WI: Mother Courage Press;
><p> Peter M. Nardi, "Blaming the Victim,"
>Christopher Street 6:6 (1982) (verbatim interview with
><br> Wayne Wooden and Jay Parker);
><p> Edward H. Peeples, Jr. and Anthony M.
>Scacco, Jr., "The Stress Impact Study Technique: A
><br> Method for Evaluating the Consequences
>of Male-on-Male Sexual Assault in Jails, Prisons,
><br> and Other Selected Single-Sex Institutions,"
>in Scacco, Male Rape (designed for lawyers
><br> litigating prison rape damage suits);
><p> Len Richardson, "Statistics On Rape in
>America's Correctional Institutions" RFD 12:1 (1985);
><p> Wilbert Rideau and Billy Sinclair, "Prison:
>The Sexual Jungle", The Angolite, Nov.-Dec. 1979;
><br> reprinted in Scacco, ed., Male Rape
>and elsewhere;
><p> David M. Siegal, "Rape in Prison and
>AIDS: A Challenge for the Eighth Amendment
><br> Framework of Wilson v. Seiter," Stanford
>Law Review 44:6 (July 1992);
><p> Norman E. Smith and Mary E. Batiuk, "Sexual
>Victimization and Inmate Social Interaction,"
><br> The Prison Journal, 68:1, 1989, p. 29-38;
><p> Starchild, Adam, "Rape of Youth in Prisons
>and Juvenile Facilities," Journal of
><br> Psychohistory, 1990 18:(2), p. 145-150
>(anecdotal);
><p> Stop Prisoner Rape, Amicus brief in the
>US Supreme Court, Farmer v. Brennan, 1993, NYC:
><br> Stop Prisoner Rape.
><p> Donald Tucker, "A Punk's Song: View From
>the Inside", in Scacco, ed. Male Rape and
><br> elsewhere;
><p> Kevin Wright, "The Violent and Victimized
>in the Male Prison," Journal of Offender
><br> Rehabilitation, vol. 16, 1991; reprinted
>in Michael C. Braswell, et al., eds., Prison Violence in
><br> America, 2nd ed., Cincinatti: Anderson,
>p. 145-165.
><br>
><p>Alecto wrote:
><blockquote TYPE=CITE>Darkside wrote:
><br>>
><br>> Alecto wrote in message <389CDDC2...@goulburn.net.au>...
><br>> >They could stop it ,all they would have to do is put all the
><br>> homosexual
><br>> >prisoners in one prison together ,and all the heterosexual ones
>in
><br>> the
><br>> >other prisons.
><br>>
><br>> I'm not sure if this was meant as a joke or not. However, if
>its not,
><br>> you are sadly mistaken. Rape in prisons have little to do with
><br>> homosexuality. Most of those who participate in homosexual
><br>> intercourse, even by consent, do not consider themselves homosexual
><br>> outside (regardless of definitions, they do not regard themselves
>as
><br>> such).
><p>There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,being in
><br>jail allows them to 'come out' ,as soon as they showed their true colors
><br>they would be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
><p>>
><br>> Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do with
><br>> homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power and aggression.
><br>> It is an act of dominance, and an act of power. It is the abuse,
><br>> degradation and humilation of the victim.
><p>Then we should single out these people and put them in a jail together
><br>too.
><p>Alecto.</blockquote>
></html>
>
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>adr:;;391 Torrens Road;KILKENNY;SA;5009;Australia
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>
>--------------2CF79E26F87DF85EB9DF4707--
Rod Speed
Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389E14E0...@goulburn.net.au...>>> Darkside wrote
>>>> Alecto wrote
>>>>> They could stop it ,all they would have to do is put
>>>>> all the homosexual prisoners in one prison together ,
>>>>> and all the heterosexual ones in the other prisons.
>>>> I'm not sure if this was meant as a joke or not. However, if its
>>>> not, you are sadly mistaken. Rape in prisons have little to do
>>>> with homosexuality. Most of those who participate in homosexual
>>>> intercourse, even by consent, do not consider themselves homosexual
>>>> outside (regardless of definitions, they do not regard themselves as such).
>>> There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,
>> Still FAR too simplistic.
>>> being in jail allows them to 'come out' ,
>> So you are claiming that a NZer who shags an occasional sheep,
>> and who also roots women when the opportunity presents itself,
>> is a 'closet' sheep shagger by natural inclination are you ?
>> Or is he a 'closet' hetero ?
> Let's not go into that (weather or not NZ'ers
> shag sheep is subjudice in my books)
Why ? Because you are a NZer who has been caught shagging
our sheep ? I thought that your comment on 'paddock lice' was
a desperate coverup. 'he doth protest too much' etc.
Sprung.
>> Your mindless simplistic black and white line doesnt even allow for bisexuals.
> 'bisexuals' are just a type of homosexual.
They're also a type of heterosexual too.
Just like a sheep shagger who does root the
occasional woman when the opportunity presents
itself is BOTH a heterosexual and a sheep shagger.
And presumably rather smelly.
>>> as soon as they showed their true colors they would
>>> be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
>> If you're gunna scrutenise them closely enough to catch
>> them 'showing their true colors', you might as well just
>> prosecute them and put them in a jail for sex offenders.
>> Pity about those that get raped in the process of identifying them.
> With surveillance cameras and brain equipped warders it
> shouldn't be too hard to work out who was doing the rooting.
Sure. Trouble is the victim's been rooted by then.
>>>> Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do
>>>> with homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power
>>>> and aggression. It is an act of dominance, and an act of power.
>>>> It is the abuse, degradation and humilation of the victim.
>>> Then we should single out these people and put them in a jail together too.
>> So you plan to have a jail for those who commit driving offenses,
>> a jail for those who have been convicted of hetero sex offences,
>> a jail for those who have been convicted of homo sex offences,
>> a jail for those who have been convicted of drug offenses, etc etc etc ?
> yep ,why get them infected with Aids ,their stay in jail might
> be short ,and once released they might infect a number of
> innocent woman before they realize they have the disease.
Wouldnt it be a tad more practical to just have adequate
surveillance cameras so there's no chance of anyone
attempting to root anyone getting away with doing that ?
With the tapes kept so the prison guards cant try to pretend they never noticed.
Rod Speed
Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389E0DCE...@goulburn.net.au...
>>> A true heterosexual would NEVER perform homosexual sex,
>>> if there's no woman available then it's Mrs. Palmer or nothing,
>> Yes.
>>> the people you are talking about ARE homosexual.
>> Still too simplistic. You're ignoring the bisexuals
> 'bisexuals' are just a type of homosexual in my books.
Time for new books. They're clearly neither homos or heteros.
Simple logic really.
>> and those who only engage in homo sex
>> when there is no other 2 person sex available.
> Same goes for this type.
See above.
Alecto
>
> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389E0DCE...@goulburn.net.au...
> > 'bisexuals' are just a type of homosexual in my books.
>
> Time for new books. They're clearly neither homos or heteros.
>
There are a few different general types of homosexuals ,they don't all
wonder around in pink fairy suits ,bisexuals are just one of the types.
Alecto.
Alecto
>
> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389E14E0...@goulburn.net.au...
>
> >>> There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,
>
> >> Still FAR too simplistic.
>
> >>> being in jail allows them to 'come out' ,
>
> >> So you are claiming that a NZer who shags an occasional sheep,
> >> and who also roots women when the opportunity presents itself,
> >> is a 'closet' sheep shagger by natural inclination are you ?
>
> >> Or is he a 'closet' hetero ?
>
> > Let's not go into that (weather or not NZ'ers
> > shag sheep is subjudice in my books)
>
> Why ? Because you are a NZer who has been caught shagging
> our sheep ?
Hmm ,shagging sheep is a form of masturbation in my books ,and nothing
to do with sexuality one way or the other.
> I thought that your comment on 'paddock lice' was
> a desperate coverup. 'he doth protest too much' etc.
>
> Sprung.
I think not.
Actually we've plowed in all the sheep ,and now were growing cranola
,all the would be sheep shagers left town (presumably for greener
pastures) years ago.
>
> >> Your mindless simplistic black and white line doesnt even allow for bisexuals.
>
> > 'bisexuals' are just a type of homosexual.
>
> They're also a type of heterosexual too.
Methinks your splitting hairs.
>
> Just like a sheep shagger who does root the
> occasional woman when the opportunity presents
> itself is BOTH a heterosexual and a sheep shagger.
>
Like I said ,it's a form of masturbation.
> And presumably rather smelly.
Presumably so.
>
> >>> as soon as they showed their true colors they would
> >>> be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
>
> >> If you're gunna scrutenise them closely enough to catch
> >> them 'showing their true colors', you might as well just
> >> prosecute them and put them in a jail for sex offenders.
>
> >> Pity about those that get raped in the process of identifying them.
>
> > With surveillance cameras and brain equipped warders it
> > shouldn't be too hard to work out who was doing the rooting.
>
> Sure. Trouble is the victim's been rooted by then.
The first one maybe ,but there would be no more to follow.
>
> >>>> Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do
> >>>> with homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power
> >>>> and aggression. It is an act of dominance, and an act of power.
> >>>> It is the abuse, degradation and humilation of the victim.
>
> >>> Then we should single out these people and put them in a jail together too.
>
> >> So you plan to have a jail for those who commit driving offenses,
> >> a jail for those who have been convicted of hetero sex offences,
> >> a jail for those who have been convicted of homo sex offences,
> >> a jail for those who have been convicted of drug offenses, etc etc etc ?
Thanks for pooping this back in.
>
> > yep ,why get them infected with Aids ,their stay in jail might
> > be short ,and once released they might infect a number of
> > innocent woman before they realize they have the disease.
>
> Wouldnt it be a tad more practical to just have adequate
> surveillance cameras so there's no chance of anyone
> attempting to root anyone getting away with doing that ?
>
> With the tapes kept so the prison guards cant try to pretend they never noticed.
Agreed.
Alecto.
Alecto
>
> Thanks for pooping this back in.
Bloody freudian spell checker ,that should have read "popping"
Alecto.
Rod Speed
Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389EE058...@goulburn.net.au...
>>>> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote
>>>>> There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,
>>>> Still FAR too simplistic.
>>>>> being in jail allows them to 'come out' ,
>>>> So you are claiming that a NZer who shags an occasional sheep,
>>>> and who also roots women when the opportunity presents itself,
>>>> is a 'closet' sheep shagger by natural inclination are you ?
>>>> Or is he a 'closet' hetero ?
>>> Let's not go into that (weather or not NZ'ers
>>> shag sheep is subjudice in my books)
>> Why ? Because you are a NZer who has been caught shagging our sheep ?
> Hmm, shagging sheep is a form of masturbation in my books,
You already what we think of your 'books'
> and nothing to do with sexuality one way or the other.
Mindlessly silly.
>> I thought that your comment on 'paddock lice' was
>> a desperate coverup. 'he doth protest too much' etc.
>> Sprung.
> I think not.
Yes, thats obvious with your silly ideas about
what a homo is. You clearly think not at all.
> Actually we've plowed in all the sheep ,and now were
> growing cranola, all the would be sheep shagers left
> town (presumably for greener pastures) years ago.
Corse you would say that, wouldnt you ?
>>>> Your mindless simplistic black and white line doesnt even allow for bisexuals.
>>> 'bisexuals' are just a type of homosexual.
>> They're also a type of heterosexual too.
> Methinks your splitting hairs.
Nope, its just as true as your claim.
>> Just like a sheep shagger who does root the
>> occasional woman when the opportunity presents
>> itself is BOTH a heterosexual and a sheep shagger.
> Like I said ,it's a form of masturbation.
Like I said, wrong, again.
>> And presumably rather smelly.
> Presumably so.
>>>>> as soon as they showed their true colors they would
>>>>> be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
>>>> If you're gunna scrutenise them closely enough to catch
>>>> them 'showing their true colors', you might as well just
>>>> prosecute them and put them in a jail for sex offenders.
>>>> Pity about those that get raped in the process of identifying them.
>>> With surveillance cameras and brain equipped warders it
>>> shouldn't be too hard to work out who was doing the rooting.
>> Sure. Trouble is the victim's been rooted by then.
> The first one maybe ,but there would be no more to follow.
Pity about the first one. There will be plenty more to follow as
other criminals are jailed and start standing over others for sex.
>>>>>> Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do
>>>>>> with homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power
>>>>>> and aggression. It is an act of dominance, and an act of power.
>>>>>> It is the abuse, degradation and humilation of the victim.
>>>>> Then we should single out these people and put them in a jail together too.
>>>> So you plan to have a jail for those who commit driving offenses,
>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of hetero sex offences,
>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of homo sex offences,
>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of drug offenses, etc etc etc ?
> Thanks for pooping this back in.
No thanks for deleting it from the quoting in the first place.
>>> yep ,why get them infected with Aids ,their stay in jail might
>>> be short ,and once released they might infect a number of
>>> innocent woman before they realize they have the disease.
>> Wouldnt it be a tad more practical to just have adequate
>> surveillance cameras so there's no chance of anyone
>> attempting to root anyone getting away with doing that ?
>> With the tapes kept so the prison guards cant try to pretend they never noticed.
> Agreed.
And the knowledge that they'll be caught immediately they try
something and be prosecuted and have their sentences increased
should have a real effect on how much rape in jail happens too.
Just as true of non sexual assault etc. Do something about the
massive problem with getting even the victim to say what happened.
Rod Speed
Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389ED87A...@goulburn.net.au...
>>> 'bisexuals' are just a type of homosexual in my books.
>> Time for new books. They're clearly neither homos or heteros.
> There are a few different general types of homosexuals ,they don't all
> wonder around in pink fairy suits ,bisexuals are just one of the types.
True in spades of heteros too, if only because they
are a much bigger percentage of the total population.
Keep digging.
Alecto
>
> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389EE058...@goulburn.net.au...
>
> >>> Let's not go into that (weather or not NZ'ers
> >>> shag sheep is subjudice in my books)
>
> >> Why ? Because you are a NZer who has been caught shagging our sheep ?
>
> > Hmm, shagging sheep is a form of masturbation in my books,
>
> You already what we think of your 'books'
Could you rephrase that.
>
> > and nothing to do with sexuality one way or the other.
>
> Mindlessly silly.
I imagine shagging sheep would appeal to an equal percentage of both
heterosexuals and homosexuals ,what objects(the sheep being an object)
people use for masturbation has nothing to do with their sexuality one
way or the other.
>
> >> I thought that your comment on 'paddock lice' was
> >> a desperate coverup. 'he doth protest too much' etc.
>
> >> Sprung.
>
> > I think not.
>
> Yes, thats obvious with your silly ideas about
> what a homo is. You clearly think not at all.
Have you met many 'homos' Rod?
>
> > Actually we've plowed in all the sheep ,and now were
> > growing cranola, all the would be sheep shagers left
> > town (presumably for greener pastures) years ago.
>
> Corse you would say that, wouldnt you ?
Yeah yeah ,but listen ,I forgot to mention that we've still got this 3
story high concrete sheep ,if you hear of anyone wanting to swap it for
a similar sized cranola let us know.
>
> >>>> Your mindless simplistic black and white line doesnt even allow for bisexuals.
>
> >>> 'bisexuals' are just a type of homosexual.
>
> >> They're also a type of heterosexual too.
>
> > Methinks your splitting hairs.
>
> Nope, its just as true as your claim.
Yes ,but it's irrelevant.
>
> >> Just like a sheep shagger who does root the
> >> occasional woman when the opportunity presents
> >> itself is BOTH a heterosexual and a sheep shagger.
>
> > Like I said ,it's a form of masturbation.
>
> Like I said, wrong, again.
>
> >> And presumably rather smelly.
>
> > Presumably so.
>
> >>>>> as soon as they showed their true colors they would
> >>>>> be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
>
> >>>> If you're gunna scrutenise them closely enough to catch
> >>>> them 'showing their true colors', you might as well just
> >>>> prosecute them and put them in a jail for sex offenders.
>
> >>>> Pity about those that get raped in the process of identifying them.
>
> >>> With surveillance cameras and brain equipped warders it
> >>> shouldn't be too hard to work out who was doing the rooting.
>
> >> Sure. Trouble is the victim's been rooted by then.
>
> > The first one maybe ,but there would be no more to follow.
>
> Pity about the first one. There will be plenty more to follow as
> other criminals are jailed and start standing over others for sex.
It would have to be an ongoing process ,it's better than doing nothing.
>
> >>>>>> Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do
> >>>>>> with homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power
> >>>>>> and aggression. It is an act of dominance, and an act of power.
> >>>>>> It is the abuse, degradation and humilation of the victim.
>
> >>>>> Then we should single out these people and put them in a jail together too.
>
> >>>> So you plan to have a jail for those who commit driving offenses,
> >>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of hetero sex offences,
> >>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of homo sex offences,
> >>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of drug offenses, etc etc etc ?
>
> > Thanks for pooping this back in.
>
> No thanks for deleting it from the quoting in the first place.
Did you want them sorted?
Alecto
Rod Speed
Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389FD3B7...@goulburn.net.au...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote
>>>>>>> There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,
>>>>>> Still FAR too simplistic.
>>>>>>> being in jail allows them to 'come out' ,
>>>>>> So you are claiming that a NZer who shags an occasional sheep,
>>>>>> and who also roots women when the opportunity presents itself,
>>>>>> is a 'closet' sheep shagger by natural inclination are you ?
>>>>>> Or is he a 'closet' hetero ?
>>>>> Let's not go into that (weather or not NZ'ers
>>>>> shag sheep is subjudice in my books)
>>>> Why ? Because you are a NZer who has been caught shagging our sheep ?
>>> Hmm, shagging sheep is a form of masturbation in my books,
>> You already what we think of your 'books'
> Could you rephrase that.
Nope. Its obvious what it means.
>>> and nothing to do with sexuality one way or the other.
>> Mindlessly silly.
> I imagine shagging sheep would appeal to an equal
> percentage of both heterosexuals and homosexuals ,
Your imagination is completely and utterly irrelevant.
> what objects(the sheep being an object) people use for masturbation
You can keep asserting its masturbation till you go blue
in the face if you like, doesnt actually change a thing.
You could try using a dictionary for starters.
> has nothing to do with their sexuality one way or the other.
Never said it did. I was just rubbing your nose in your completely
silly propostion that a single example of homo behaviour is proof
that the individual caught in the act is a 'closet' homo.
Even you should be able to grasp that an individual
caught porking a sheep isnt a 'closet' sheep shagger and
may well ALSO be a hetero. Or a homo for that matter.
Your mindlessly silly proposition that there are ONLY
heteros and homo, completely black and white, is just
that, mindlessly simplistic and just plain silly.
>>>> I thought that your comment on 'paddock lice' was
>>>> a desperate coverup. 'he doth protest too much' etc.
>>>> Sprung.
>>> I think not.
>> Yes, thats obvious with your silly ideas about
>> what a homo is. You clearly think not at all.
> Have you met many 'homos' Rod?
Completely and utterly irrelevant to your completely silly claims about homos.
>>> Actually we've plowed in all the sheep ,and now were
>>> growing cranola, all the would be sheep shagers left
>>> town (presumably for greener pastures) years ago.
>> Corse you would say that, wouldnt you ?
> Yeah yeah ,but listen ,
I never listen to sheep shaggers. They cant be trusted.
> I forgot to mention that we've still got this 3 story high concrete sheep ,
No need to mention it, many know about your obscenity already.
> if you hear of anyone wanting to swap it for a similar sized cranola let us know.
No way, I wont have anything to do with sheep shaggers.
>>>>>> Your mindless simplistic black and white
>>>>>> line doesnt even allow for bisexuals.
>>>>> 'bisexuals' are just a type of homosexual.
>>>> They're also a type of heterosexual too.
>>> Methinks your splitting hairs.
>> Nope, its just as true as your claim.
> Yes ,but it's irrelevant.
Nope. YOU made completely silly claims about homos.
>>>> Just like a sheep shagger who does root the
>>>> occasional woman when the opportunity presents
>>>> itself is BOTH a heterosexual and a sheep shagger.
>>> Like I said ,it's a form of masturbation.
>> Like I said, wrong, again.
>>>> And presumably rather smelly.
>>> Presumably so.
>>>>>>> as soon as they showed their true colors they would
>>>>>>> be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
>>>>>> If you're gunna scrutenise them closely enough to catch
>>>>>> them 'showing their true colors', you might as well just
>>>>>> prosecute them and put them in a jail for sex offenders.
>>>>>> Pity about those that get raped in the process of identifying them.
>>>>> With surveillance cameras and brain equipped warders it
>>>>> shouldn't be too hard to work out who was doing the rooting.
>>>> Sure. Trouble is the victim's been rooted by then.
>>> The first one maybe ,but there would be no more to follow.
>> Pity about the first one. There will be plenty more to follow as
>> other criminals are jailed and start standing over others for sex.
> It would have to be an ongoing process,
Duh. Pity about all those ongoing victims.
> it's better than doing nothing.
Having fun thrashing that straw man are you ? I never ever suggested
doing nothing. I in fact rubbed your nose in much more practical alternatives
to separate jails for homos, after they have raped their first victim in jail.
>>>>>>>> Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do
>>>>>>>> with homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power
>>>>>>>> and aggression. It is an act of dominance, and an act of power.
>>>>>>>> It is the abuse, degradation and humilation of the victim.
>>>>>>> Then we should single out these people and put them in a jail together too.
>>>>>> So you plan to have a jail for those who commit driving offenses,
>>>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of hetero sex offences,
>>>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of homo sex offences,
>>>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of drug offenses, etc etc etc ?
>>> Thanks for pooping this back in.
>> No thanks for deleting it from the quoting in the first place.
> Did you want them sorted?
Have you gone blind yet ?
Alecto
>
> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389ED87A...@goulburn.net.au...
>
> >> Time for new books. They're clearly neither homos or heteros.
>
> > There are a few different general types of homosexuals ,they don't all
> > wonder around in pink fairy suits ,bisexuals are just one of the types.
>
> True in spades of heteros too,
But not if hearts are trumps.
> if only because they are a much bigger percentage of the total population.
Can't see where that comes into it.
>
> Keep digging.
Perhaps I'll plant a tree.
Alecto.
Rod Speed
Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389FDA9D...@goulburn.net.au...
>>>> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote
>>>>> 'bisexuals' are just a type of homosexual in my books.
>>>> Time for new books. They're clearly neither homos or heteros.
>>> There are a few different general types of homosexuals ,they don't all
>>> wonder around in pink fairy suits ,bisexuals are just one of the types.
>> True in spades of heteros too,
> But not if hearts are trumps.
Pathetic really.
>> if only because they are a much bigger percentage of the total population.
> Can't see where that comes into it.
I told you you should watch out or you'd end up going blind.
>> Keep digging.
> Perhaps I'll plant a tree.
It would die.
Darkside
Aldis Ozols wrote in message <389E14A8...@zeta.org.au>...
Or 3. He is more interested in justice than in law.
Granted that Justice and Law do not always go hand in hand.
If someone's prepared to pay such a high price, good luck to them.
Darkside
Alecto
>
> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:389FD3B7...@goulburn.net.au...
> > Rod Speed wrote:
> >> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote
> >>> Rod Speed wrote
> >>>> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote
>
> >>>>>>> There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,
>
> >>>>>> Still FAR too simplistic.
>
> >>>>>>> being in jail allows them to 'come out' ,
>
> >>>>>> So you are claiming that a NZer who shags an occasional sheep,
> >>>>>> and who also roots women when the opportunity presents itself,
> >>>>>> is a 'closet' sheep shagger by natural inclination are you ?
>
> >>>>>> Or is he a 'closet' hetero ?
>
> >>>>> Let's not go into that (weather or not NZ'ers
> >>>>> shag sheep is subjudice in my books)
>
> >>>> Why ? Because you are a NZer who has been caught shagging our sheep ?
>
> >>> Hmm, shagging sheep is a form of masturbation in my books,
>
> >> You already what we think of your 'books'
>
> > Could you rephrase that.
>
> Nope. Its obvious what it means.
I've worked it out now ,knowing the right word to insert was the key.
>
> >>> and nothing to do with sexuality one way or the other.
>
> >> Mindlessly silly.
>
> > I imagine shagging sheep would appeal to an equal
> > percentage of both heterosexuals and homosexuals ,
>
> Your imagination is completely and utterly irrelevant.
When it comes to sheep shagging I've only got my imagination to go by
,unless you can throw a little more light on the subject.
>
> > what objects(the sheep being an object) people use for masturbation
>
> You can keep asserting its masturbation till you go blue
> in the face if you like, doesnt actually change a thing.
>
Ok ,it's bestiality ,but either way it's irrelevant to the point I was
making ,
> You could try using a dictionary for starters.
>
> > has nothing to do with their sexuality one way or the other.
>
> Never said it did. I was just rubbing your nose in your completely
> silly propostion that a single example of homo behaviour is proof
> that the individual caught in the act is a 'closet' homo.
Something deep in your past bothering you Rod?
>
> Even you should be able to grasp that an individual
> caught porking a sheep isnt a 'closet' sheep shagger
> and may well ALSO be a hetero. Or a homo for that matter.
Now your hijacking my argument.
>
> Your mindlessly silly proposition that there are ONLY
> heteros and homo, completely black and white, is just
> that, mindlessly simplistic and just plain silly.
For the purpose of sorting prisoners into separate jails black and white
suffices.
>
> >>>> I thought that your comment on 'paddock lice' was
> >>>> a desperate coverup. 'he doth protest too much' etc.
>
> >>>> Sprung.
>
> >>> I think not.
>
> >> Yes, thats obvious with your silly ideas about
> >> what a homo is. You clearly think not at all.
>
> > Have you met many 'homos' Rod?
>
> Completely and utterly irrelevant to your completely silly claims about homos.
Touché
>
> >>>>>>> as soon as they showed their true colors they would
> >>>>>>> be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
>
> >>>>>> If you're gunna scrutenise them closely enough to catch
> >>>>>> them 'showing their true colors', you might as well just
> >>>>>> prosecute them and put them in a jail for sex offenders.
>
> >>>>>> Pity about those that get raped in the process of identifying them.
>
> >>>>> With surveillance cameras and brain equipped warders it
> >>>>> shouldn't be too hard to work out who was doing the rooting.
>
> >>>> Sure. Trouble is the victim's been rooted by then.
>
> >>> The first one maybe ,but there would be no more to follow.
>
> >> Pity about the first one. There will be plenty more to follow as
> >> other criminals are jailed and start standing over others for sex.
>
> > It would have to be an ongoing process,
>
> Duh. Pity about all those ongoing victims.
Can't see it creating an increase.
>
> > it's better than doing nothing.
>
> Having fun thrashing that straw man are you ? I never ever suggested
> doing nothing. I in fact rubbed your nose in much more practical alternatives
> to separate jails for homos, after they have raped their first victim in jail.
Can you run those alternatives by me again ,I must have missed them the
first time.
>
> >>>>>>>> Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do
> >>>>>>>> with homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power
> >>>>>>>> and aggression. It is an act of dominance, and an act of power.
> >>>>>>>> It is the abuse, degradation and humilation of the victim.
>
> >>>>>>> Then we should single out these people and put them in a jail together too.
>
> >>>>>> So you plan to have a jail for those who commit driving offenses,
> >>>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of hetero sex offences,
> >>>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of homo sex offences,
> >>>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of drug offenses, etc etc etc ?
>
> >>> Thanks for pooping this back in.
>
> >> No thanks for deleting it from the quoting in the first place.
>
> > Did you want them sorted?
>
> Have you gone blind yet ?
Not quite.
Alecto
Rod Speed
Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote in message news:38A13741...@goulburn.net.au...
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Alecto <ale...@goulburn.net.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>> There is a name for people like this - "closet homosexual" ,
>>>>>>>> Still FAR too simplistic.
>>>>>>>>> being in jail allows them to 'come out' ,
>>>>>>>> So you are claiming that a NZer who shags an occasional sheep,
>>>>>>>> and who also roots women when the opportunity presents itself,
>>>>>>>> is a 'closet' sheep shagger by natural inclination are you ?
>>>>>>>> Or is he a 'closet' hetero ?
>>>>>>> Let's not go into that (weather or not NZ'ers
>>>>>>> shag sheep is subjudice in my books)
>>>>>> Why ? Because you are a NZer who
>>>>>> has been caught shagging our sheep ?
>>>>> Hmm, shagging sheep is a form of masturbation in my books,
>>>> You already what we think of your 'books'
>>> Could you rephrase that.
>> Nope. Its obvious what it means.
> I've worked it out now ,knowing the right word to insert was the key.
Wrong. Again.
>>>>> and nothing to do with sexuality one way or the other.
>>>> Mindlessly silly.
>>> I imagine shagging sheep would appeal to an equal
>>> percentage of both heterosexuals and homosexuals ,
>> Your imagination is completely and utterly irrelevant.
> When it comes to sheep shagging I've only got my imagination to go by
Wrong. Again.
> unless you can throw a little more light on the subject.
That aint the only other possibility.
>>> what objects(the sheep being an object) people use for masturbation
>> You can keep asserting its masturbation till you go blue
>> in the face if you like, doesnt actually change a thing.
> Ok ,it's bestiality ,but either way it's irrelevant to the point I was making ,
Wrong. Again. Your 'closet' line is completely silly.
>> You could try using a dictionary for starters.
>>> has nothing to do with their sexuality one way or the other.
>> Never said it did. I was just rubbing your nose in your completely
>> silly propostion that a single example of homo behaviour is proof
>> that the individual caught in the act is a 'closet' homo.
> Something deep in your past bothering you Rod?
Pathetic really. Even you should be able to manage better than that.
>> Even you should be able to grasp that an individual
>> caught porking a sheep isnt a 'closet' sheep shagger
>> and may well ALSO be a hetero. Or a homo for that matter.
> Now your hijacking my argument.
Wrong. Again. Its an illustration of how mindlessly silly your 'closet' 'argument' is.
>> Your mindlessly silly proposition that there are ONLY
>> heteros and homo, completely black and white, is just
>> that, mindlessly simplistic and just plain silly.
> For the purpose of sorting prisoners into separate jails black and white suffices.
Wrong. Again. Isnt even possible.
>>>>>> I thought that your comment on 'paddock lice' was
>>>>>> a desperate coverup. 'he doth protest too much' etc.
>>>>>> Sprung.
>>>>> I think not.
>>>> Yes, thats obvious with your silly ideas about
>>>> what a homo is. You clearly think not at all.
>>> Have you met many 'homos' Rod?
>> Completely and utterly irrelevant to your completely silly claims about homos.
> Touché
Wrong. Again.
>>>>>>>>> as soon as they showed their true colors they would
>>>>>>>>> be transferred to the homosexual jail under my 'system'.
>>>>>>>> If you're gunna scrutenise them closely enough to catch
>>>>>>>> them 'showing their true colors', you might as well just
>>>>>>>> prosecute them and put them in a jail for sex offenders.
>>>>>>>> Pity about those that get raped in the process of identifying them.
>>>>>>> With surveillance cameras and brain equipped warders it
>>>>>>> shouldn't be too hard to work out who was doing the rooting.
>>>>>> Sure. Trouble is the victim's been rooted by then.
>>>>> The first one maybe ,but there would be no more to follow.
>>>> Pity about the first one. There will be plenty more to follow as
>>>> other criminals are jailed and start standing over others for sex.
>>> It would have to be an ongoing process,
>> Duh. Pity about all those ongoing victims.
> Can't see it creating an increase.
No one ever said it would. Having fun thrashing that straw man are you ?
>>> it's better than doing nothing.
>> Having fun thrashing that straw man are you ? I never ever suggested
>> doing nothing. I in fact rubbed your nose in much more practical alternatives
>> to separate jails for homos, after they have raped their first victim in jail.
> Can you run those alternatives by me again ,
> I must have missed them the first time.
Pathetic really. Even you should be able to manage better than that.
>>>>>>>>>> Rape in prison (and much like outside) has very little to do
>>>>>>>>>> with homosexual feelings, and much more to do with power
>>>>>>>>>> and aggression. It is an act of dominance, and an act of power.
>>>>>>>>>> It is the abuse, degradation and humilation of the victim.
>>>>>>>>> Then we should single out these people
>>>>>>>>> and put them in a jail together too.
>>>>>>>> So you plan to have a jail for those who commit driving offenses,
>>>>>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of hetero sex offences,
>>>>>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of homo sex offences,
>>>>>>>> a jail for those who have been convicted of drug offenses, etc etc etc ?
>>>>> Thanks for pooping this back in.
>>>> No thanks for deleting it from the quoting in the first place.
>>> Did you want them sorted?
>> Have you gone blind yet ?
> Not quite.
Pity about that.
Matthew McDonald
<solic...@camattalempens.com.au> wrote:
You did it again.
Regards
Matthew
--
____________________________________________________________
Matthew McDonald http://www.matthewmcdonald.com/
MobileWorld Phone Information http://www.mobileworld.org/
Gold Coast, Australia_______________________________________