netvegetable wrote: > On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:28:28 +0000, veritas wrote:
>>netvegetable wrote:
>>>On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:48:10 +1030, John wrote:
>>>Now that's what the Rightwing xenophobes rattle on about. Given that >>>your car is probably got a japanese engine, your jeans are probably made >>>in China, and your computer is made in Taiwan ... who gives a shit?
>>Me and *most* other people you moron....
> Well all that proves is that you're both stupid. Not to mention plain > nasty.
> jg wrote: >> "John" <nookn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:441FEF02.B1B91E8E@hotmail.com... >>> The Indians in their call centres want to put troublesome callers in >> Western countries >>> onto THEIR banned callers list. Priceless
>> Many assume it's the sales callers involved but it's not, it's help >> lines. >> They think they are helping, they don't get it that people are probably >> already pissed off when they call then doubly so when they find they have >> been palmed off onto an inferior outsourced help service next best thing >> to >> nothing. The callers shouldn't be too surprised, they wanted cheap didn't >> they? Probably calling because their cheap thing broke.
> HP ain't exactly cheap, and they've outsourced their support to India. But > then they've paid the price too. I know of one large buyer that no longer > buys from HP, with that being the anvil that broke the camel's back, and > I'm sure there are plenty of others that have made the same decision for > the same reason, especially with some of the brilliant alternatives now > floating around in Oz.
Thats strange, if you are a large purchaser you usually get numbers in Australia to call. Maybe they weren't large enough?
>> HP ain't exactly cheap, and they've outsourced their support to India. >> But then they've paid the price too. I know of one large buyer that no >> longer buys from HP, with that being the anvil that broke the camel's >> back, and I'm sure there are plenty of others that have made the same >> decision for the same reason, especially with some of the brilliant >> alternatives now floating around in Oz.
> They're not that expensive either lately, and this is one of the ways they > (and others) have avoided being more expensive.
Not super cheap either, I don't think they've even really rated in our last few tenders, decimated on pricing by local supplier/assemblers. And that's without even taking into consideration that factors such as value-add in relation to stuff like support and post-sale assistance would've knocked them even further down the ladder even if they had been price competitive. The only complaint I've got about some of the local suppliers is that the failure rate is a tad higher, but I think I prefer a tad higher failure rate with rapid quality support to a lower failure rate where you need to learn Hindi to avoid sitting on the phone for an hour to log a basic fault and then wait a week for a result on your 24 hour turn around on-site support contract.
>>> Many assume it's the sales callers involved but it's not, it's help >>> lines. >>> They think they are helping, they don't get it that people are probably >>> already pissed off when they call then doubly so when they find they have >>> been palmed off onto an inferior outsourced help service next best thing >>> to >>> nothing. The callers shouldn't be too surprised, they wanted cheap didn't >>> they? Probably calling because their cheap thing broke.
>> HP ain't exactly cheap, and they've outsourced their support to India. But >> then they've paid the price too. I know of one large buyer that no longer >> buys from HP, with that being the anvil that broke the camel's back, and >> I'm sure there are plenty of others that have made the same decision for >> the same reason, especially with some of the brilliant alternatives now >> floating around in Oz.
> Thats strange, if you are a large purchaser you usually get numbers in > Australia to call. Maybe they weren't large enough?
Around 1000 FTE's and as many again PT's and casuals, with a floating client base of around 10,000 at any one time, most of whom use our client-side PC's I think constitutes as large enough... Picking up around 1200 new desktops's this year along with a bunch of servers doesn't really constitute small-scale purchasing either (and that's just with our "time to replace the old shit" strategy, it doesn't include fleet expansion or other shit that may come up).
Unfortunately it doesn't work the way you think it does. HP's helpdesk for PC support is in India, simple as that. You can ring suppliers (as we can) if you're a big customer and have them go through the nitty gritty of logging your calls for you, but it doesn't really seem to help much when they ain't techies either. The old local HP helpdesk was great, it is now shit, it really is as simple as that. The servers on the other hand are still localised support-wise (and strangely we still buy their servers, just not their desktops).
Dell I think did make the move in the US of moving their support back to the US for corporate customers after massive corporate complaint and backlash, but HP have made no such move, they were just never silly enough to offshore their server support. But then I think they forgot where their bread and butter was, in the desktop market.
>>Panasonic is arguably the most respected name in domestic consumer >>electronics. A reputation it has earned thru quality, performance, and >>reliability. There are others of renown, such as Sony and Pioneer, and >>not considering the European makes who have only minimal market share >>here. The Panel is made in Japan, and in my estimation is the best panel >>on the market today. Cheaper brands such as LG have Korean made panels, >>and the no-name brands use Chinese ones. There are two major aspects to >>the performance of a Plasma tv- the quality of the panel, and the >>quality and performance of the electronics that drive it. The help line >>was quite good; after the initial contact, which occurred without being >>put on hold. Can't say I approve of overseas help lines. These ppl >>aren't technical. They work from a database/FAQ which supposedly gives >>them the correct answer to give you.
>Don't they wear out far faster then CRT or LCD?
Supposedly. (faster, not far faster) But the current (8th.) generation of Plasma panels have life expectancies typically equating to 10 to 20 years of normal use. And CRT is dead, and both CRT and LCD technologies don't have screen sizes that large. I had a 90cm CRT which is the largest size made in 4x3 format, and it weighted 128 kilos! No fun to move. Plasma is the best performer all round, and the only viable option above 106cm. LCD technology still has issues with fast motion, but there's a new technology on the horizon that may replace them both.
>>> <>So since your Jap panel and the rest of the package wherever it came >>> from, was expensive, it could have ultimately cost more. That makes it >>> cheap, in the same way as a "good buy" or a "keen price" doesn't >>> necessarily mean cheap & nasty.
>>That sounds like nonsense to me.
>Sounds like it would not have been as cheap with the Aussie help line you >preferred.
Maybe not, but how much difference would it make? I think the idea is to have a centralized support center that can service worldwide, and so avoid the cost of having support centres in each country.
> jg wrote: ............. > >Sounds like it would not have been as cheap with the Aussie help line you > >preferred.
> Maybe not, but how much difference would it make? I think the idea is to > have a centralized support center that can service worldwide, and so > avoid the cost of having support centres in each country.
If they thought that would be cheaper they would be doing it, you don't get much thanks for having good after sales help or serviceable product, specially domestic goods. It would be a bit like that big meeting room at the UN... specially if Ikea had a help line.
>>>Sounds like it would not have been as cheap with the Aussie help line you >>>preferred.
>>Maybe not, but how much difference would it make? I think the idea is to >>have a centralized support center that can service worldwide, and so >>avoid the cost of having support centres in each country.
>If they thought that would be cheaper they would be doing it,
They are doing it!
> you don't get >much thanks for having good after sales help or serviceable product, >specially domestic goods.
No that's wrong, as the quality of service relates to the brands reputation, which then affects sales. Sooner or later a brand that gets a bad reputation for service is going to have it's sales affected by that. When I was shopping for this tv, a couple of times salesmen mentioned about poor after sales service and product support in relation to one make or another.
> >>jg wrote: .............. > > you don't get > >much thanks for having good after sales help or serviceable product, > >specially domestic goods.
> No that's wrong, as the quality of service relates to the brands > reputation, which then affects sales. Sooner or later a brand that gets > a bad reputation for service is going to have it's sales affected by > that. When I was shopping for this tv, a couple of times salesmen > mentioned about poor after sales service and product support in relation > to one make or another.
Who sells more stuff... BigW or Myer? The majority will buy crap because it's cheap.
>>>you don't get >>>much thanks for having good after sales help or serviceable product, >>>specially domestic goods.
>>No that's wrong, as the quality of service relates to the brands >>reputation, which then affects sales. Sooner or later a brand that gets >>a bad reputation for service is going to have it's sales affected by >>that. When I was shopping for this tv, a couple of times salesmen >>mentioned about poor after sales service and product support in relation >>to one make or another.
>Who sells more stuff... BigW or Myer? The majority will buy crap because >it's cheap.
Yes, but it's irrelevant to a brands reputation or quality that most buy on price alone. Anyone who wants a quality product will consider all aspects, not just price. In which case a brands reputation for reliability, service, and backup becomes relevant.
> >>No that's wrong, as the quality of service relates to the brands > >>reputation, which then affects sales. Sooner or later a brand that gets > >>a bad reputation for service is going to have it's sales affected by > >>that. When I was shopping for this tv, a couple of times salesmen > >>mentioned about poor after sales service and product support in relation > >>to one make or another.
> >Who sells more stuff... BigW or Myer? The majority will buy crap because > >it's cheap.
> Yes, but it's irrelevant to a brands reputation or quality that most buy > on price alone. Anyone who wants a quality product will consider all > aspects, not just price. In which case a brands reputation for > reliability, service, and backup becomes relevant.
That kind of discernment puts you in a minority, specially for houshold stuff. Even people choosing between say a BMW and Porshe will often choose on price (why else would many include a toy spare wheel?) and a fantasy trip which includes the determination it will never break down, because they know service will be expensive and quite likely no better than for a Ford.
>>>>No that's wrong, as the quality of service relates to the brands >>>>reputation, which then affects sales. Sooner or later a brand that gets >>>>a bad reputation for service is going to have it's sales affected by >>>>that. When I was shopping for this tv, a couple of times salesmen >>>>mentioned about poor after sales service and product support in relation >>>>to one make or another.
>>>Who sells more stuff... BigW or Myer? The majority will buy crap because >>>it's cheap.
>>Yes, but it's irrelevant to a brands reputation or quality that most buy >>on price alone. Anyone who wants a quality product will consider all >>aspects, not just price. In which case a brands reputation for >>reliability, service, and backup becomes relevant.
>That kind of discernment puts you in a minority, specially for houshold >stuff. Even people choosing between say a BMW and Porshe will often choose >on price (why else would many include a toy spare wheel?) and a fantasy trip >which includes the determination it will never break down, because they know >service will be expensive and quite likely no better than for a Ford.
Ppl only choose on price if they need to. Interesting aside.. a friend of mine told me recently that the manual for the Rolls Royce never refers to a breakdown. It simply states "when the vehicle fails to proceed.." . We found that amusing.
news:AdmVf.16421$dy4.2996@news-server.bigpond.net.au... ....................... Ppl only choose on price if they need to. Interesting aside.. a friend of mine told me recently that the manual for the Rolls Royce never refers to a breakdown. It simply states "when the vehicle fails to proceed.." . We found that amusing.
Most people need to choose on price, but more than that, most will look for a better price for the same article even if they can easily afford it. Shortcuts in the after sales department are usually not obvious when you buy it (weren't for your TV) and not too important for many at purchase time, but the price difference is. I heard of an old RR which broke a half shaft in France - when he called about a new one RR replied "RR's don't break half shafts", flew one from the factory and fitted it FOC. But for all that RR are not the most popular exotic car. You can have most of the features in another car for less money, for instance my car is like one in that "horsepower is adequate" as at least one RR manual states.
jg wrote: >"lynx" <n...@nothere.com> wrote in message >news:AdmVf.16421$dy4.2996@news-server.bigpond.net.au... >........................ >Ppl only choose on price if they need to. Interesting aside.. a friend of >mine told me recently that the manual for the Rolls Royce never refers to a >breakdown. It simply states "when the vehicle fails to proceed.." . We found >that amusing.
>Most people need to choose on price, but more than that, most will look for >a better price for the same article even if they can easily afford it.
No argument there.
>Shortcuts in the after sales department are usually not obvious when you buy >it (weren't for your TV) and not too important for many at purchase time, >but the price difference is.
Too many purchasers buy on price alone, and don't consider such things as makers reputation, after sales service and warranty, and then bitch like hell when it falls in a heap after 12 months and they can't get it fixed.
>I heard of an old RR which broke a half shaft in France - when he called >about a new one RR replied "RR's don't break half shafts", flew one from the >factory and fitted it FOC. But for all that RR are not the most popular >exotic car. You can have most of the features in another car for less money, >for instance my car is like one in that "horsepower is adequate" as at least >one RR manual states.
............. > >Shortcuts in the after sales department are usually not obvious when you buy > >it (weren't for your TV) and not too important for many at purchase time, > >but the price difference is.
> Too many purchasers buy on price alone, and don't consider such things > as makers reputation, after sales service and warranty, and then bitch > like hell when it falls in a heap after 12 months and they can't get it > fixed.
Yep, that's all I was saying - there's not much reward for good after sales, generally.
> Economies and cultures change and places like India deserve their turn > at economic development.
> What drives me up the wall is the continuing culture of call centres > who are there to soak up you complaint but are unable to do anything > about it. Cultural clashes with an Indian call centre worker are one > thing but how many of us have had our nerves rattled and our tempers > fried by some smarmy telstra shit in a Sydney or Melbourne call centre?
imanozzi wrote: > "John" <nookn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:441FEF02.B1B91E8E@hotmail.com... > > The Indians in their call centres want to put troublesome callers in > > Western countries > > onto THEIR banned callers list. Priceless
> ............... > > > How do I volunteer to be put on the list???
> > Just hassle them the next time you get called from a telemarketers > > or are forced to use a call centre
> It's not telemarketers, it's help lines.
Like crap it is.......
What about Otus. They will phone my number 2 to 3 times a week asking if I wish to change my phone service over to them and I keep telling them I am not interested. All indian callers too.
> > ............... > > > > How do I volunteer to be put on the list???
> > > Just hassle them the next time you get called from a telemarketers > > > or are forced to use a call centre
> > It's not telemarketers, it's help lines.
> Like crap it is.......
> What about Otus. They will phone my number 2 to 3 times a week asking > if I wish to change my phone service over to them and I keep telling them > I am not interested. All indian callers too.
It's not telemarketers, it's help lines who are banning rude callers. God why doesn't anyone listen?
On a related note to call centres they do coach their phone operators in how to sound "aussie" or "american" and such ...
Do they fly the workers out here to train them? No wonder our rates for Origin and AGL are going up. The reason I ask is that they have a lot of people roaming door to door trying to get contracts and they are all indian..... Weird.......
We have had 2 from AGL and 3 from Origin Energy and they have all been indian sales people....
John wrote: >On a related note to call centres they do coach their phone operators in >how to sound "aussie" or "american" and such ...
>Do they fly the workers out here to train them? No wonder our rates >for Origin and AGL are going up. The reason I ask is that they have >a lot of people roaming door to door trying to get contracts and they >are all indian..... Weird.......
>We have had 2 from AGL and 3 from Origin Energy and they have >all been indian sales people....
Where are you? Same here in Melb, Vic.
--
rgds,
Pete ~~~~~ 'Experience is the worst teacher; it gives you the test before the lesson' http://saveaustralia.vze.com
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