Sale of DIY mains electrical parts to be banned in Vic?
David S. Maddison
Can anyone confirm this?
I was just told that the sale of DIY mains electrical stuff like
powerpoints and cables is going to be banned to all but licensed
electrical contractors.
David
onestone
consumer.
Al
Greg Richards
I hope not that would suck. Luckily I know sparkys that would give me
stuff at discount or free.
Chris
> It wouldn't surprise me, just another way to rip off the poor bloody
> consumer.
its the union protecting there workers
i'd like to walk into a doctor/lawyer/politicians office
pull out the obviously broken light bulb
have a look
say "hmmmm, ohhhh"
put it back in
then charge $50 consultation fee saying the light bulb needs to be replaced
> Al
>
> "David S. Maddison" wrote:
>>
>> Can anyone confirm this?
>>
>> I was just told that the sale of DIY mains electrical stuff like
>> powerpoints and cables is going to be banned to all but licensed
>> electrical contractors.
>>
>> David
>
--
Chris
onestone
>
> On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:51:33 GMT, onestone <ones...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> > It wouldn't surprise me, just another way to rip off the poor bloody
> > consumer.
>
> its the union protecting there workers
No, it's the state government kissing union arse. Now the poor bloody
consumer will have to do exactly what you suggest, pay an electrician a
ludicrous amount of money to simply change a light switch. Or will the
state government place controls over the union, and publish a list of
reasonable charges. Change light switch $10, $6 for the switch and $4
for the less than 5 minutes it takes? What about the large number of
people who simply can't afford the high rates that will be charged.
They'll leave the job unfixed, or bodge it themselves. This legislation
will endanger life if it is passed.
Al
Ken Taylor
message news:sdrs2vg053o34akvm...@4ax.com...
Ken
David S. Maddison
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Ken Taylor wrote:
> David, what state?
Victoria, as per the header :-)
David
Rod Speed
onestone <ones...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:3E2E7757...@bigpond.net.au...
> It wouldn't surprise me, just another way
> to rip off the poor bloody consumer.
And the stupid labor party doing it.
Rod Speed
"Ken Taylor" <ken...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:b0n4ld$r4866$1...@ID-76636.news.dfncis.de...
Read the subject, stupid |-)
Ken Taylor
message news:20030123095121...@power.connexus.net.au...
Ken
Ken Taylor
news:b0n7p8$r8o4g$1...@ID-69072.news.dfncis.de...
:-)
KLR
Is this serious or a joke or rumour ?
I know this is australia and he more stupid an idea the more likely it
is - but this is scary
David S. Maddison
On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, KLR wrote:
> Is this serious or a joke or rumour ?
The problem with this country is that it is now impossible to tell the
difference between what might be a joke and the real thing!
> I know this is australia and he more stupid an idea the more likely it
> is - but this is scary
This was mentioned on Sydney Radio 2GB between 7pm and midnight 22 Jan
2003 and was reported to me by a friend.
David
Terry Collins
> Now the poor bloody
> consumer will have to do exactly what you suggest, pay an electrician a
> ludicrous amount of money to simply change a light switch. Or will the
> state government place controls over the union, and publish a list of
> reasonable charges. Change light switch $10, $6 for the switch and $4
> for the less than 5 minutes it takes?
The major cost would be the cost of having the electrician come to you.
It could be as much as $50 just to have him show up on your door stop .
$50 in the city that is. Probably $250 in the country.
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures <Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing>
"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
John Harvey
>I was just told that the sale of DIY mains electrical stuff like
>powerpoints and cables is going to be banned to all but licensed
>electrical contractors.
Can't see it making much difference really -- it just means buying
them in the pub car park with the rest of the contraband.
Licensed contractors will probably need to keep their supplies in
secure storage though.
--
John H
David Milne
<OT>
No more stupid than farmers having to pay the Victorian government
for the rain that falls on their land, and for licenses for dams on
their properties.
</OT>
Back to the electrical discussion:
Personally, I think it would be impractical, unless draconian measures
are put in place to restrict the sale of goods, eg identity cards, etc.
Does anyone remember the anger the public exhibited when Hawkey tried
to introduce the Australia Card?
People will still be able to buy the goods in electrical wholesalers/distributors,
same as sparkys, rather than going to their local hardware store. History
has shown that when governments try to ban commonly available items,
the prohibition fails miserably. Look at kids buying cigarettes in stores.
It's supposed to be illegal in some states but it happens.
--
Regards
David Milne
Rod Speed
"David Milne" <dmm...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message news:3E2FACA4...@ozemail.com.au...
> KLR wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:10:17 +1100, David S. Maddison
> > <maddisonREMO...@connexus.net.au> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Can anyone confirm this?
> > >
> > >I was just told that the sale of DIY mains electrical stuff like
> > >powerpoints and cables is going to be banned to all but licensed
> > >electrical contractors.
> > >
> > >David
> >
> > Is this serious or a joke or rumour ?
> >
> > I know this is australia and he more stupid an idea the more likely it
> > is - but this is scary
>
> <OT>
> No more stupid than farmers having to pay the Victorian government
> for the rain that falls on their land, and for licenses for dams on
> their properties.
> </OT>
> Back to the electrical discussion:
Dangerous business.
> Personally, I think it would be impractical, unless draconian measures
> are put in place to restrict the sale of goods, eg identity cards, etc.
Not being able to buy them at the usual
places like Kmart would stop a lot of sales.
> Does anyone remember the anger the public exhibited
> when Hawkey tried to introduce the Australia Card?
Wont happen with this change.
> People will still be able to buy the goods in electrical
> wholesalers/distributors, same as sparkys, rather
> than going to their local hardware store.
Nope, it would be pretty obvious to those whether
most of those showing up are actually licensed or not.
Doesnt have to be perfect to make a big difference.
> History has shown that when governments try to ban
> commonly available items, the prohibition fails miserably.
Sure. But it usually does have some effect.
> Look at kids buying cigarettes in stores. It's supposed
> to be illegal in some states but it happens.
Sure, but the ban on kids in pubs etc does
work better than complete open slather etc.
Ross Herbert
The Draft Code can be found here
http://www.ocei.vic.gov.au/DraftCofPSaleProducts.html
If you wish to protest then respond with your feedback...
Ross Herbert
Allan
from another state
Allan
"John Harvey" <no_...@home.au> wrote in message
news:l5ou2v83bq3sj8i3t...@4ax.com...
KLR
<maddisonREMO...@connexus.net.au> wrote:
was in our local paoer today. unfortunately this bullshit seems to be
true
Melbourne - Hardware stores and wholesalers in victoria would be
banned from selling electrical cabling and switches to the public
under a proposed new code of practice. The state ban has been
demanded by electricians sick of having their lives endangered by
gerry-rigged cabling done by home handymen. The proposed code of
practice is part of a new enterprise agreement hammered out between
teh Victorian branch of the Electrical Trades Union and the National
Electrical Contractors Association
Geoff C
news:3E2FDE22...@bigpond.net.au:
I looked up the link
http://www.ocei.vic.gov.au/downloads/CoPSaleInstallationProds.pdf
and it only seems to mention codes of practice for retailers with
labelling of products etc. Maybe there is another document which
mentions prohibition. Has anyone seen some real evidence other then
media hype?
Geoff
Richard Freeman
"KLR" <kr...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:g8vv2v8s367r63qdh...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:10:17 +1100, David S. Maddison
> <maddisonREMO...@connexus.net.au> wrote:
>
> >
> >Can anyone confirm this?
> >
> >I was just told that the sale of DIY mains electrical stuff like
> >powerpoints and cables is going to be banned to all but licensed
> >electrical contractors.
> >
> >David
>
>
> was in our local paoer today. unfortunately this bullshit seems to be
> true
>
>
>
> Melbourne - Hardware stores and wholesalers in victoria would be
> banned from selling electrical cabling and switches to the public
> under a proposed new code of practice. The state ban has been
> demanded by electricians sick of having their lives endangered by
> gerry-rigged cabling done by home handymen.
nope the bodgy cabling was done by the licensed Electricians.....
That sounds Like hypocrisy to me having seen what the Sparkies do...
Regards
Richard Freeman
David S. Maddison
15:15:52 +1100 "Richard Freeman" <deleteme...@atps.net> wrote:
[..]
>nope the bodgy cabling was done by the licensed Electricians.....
>That sounds Like hypocrisy to me having seen what the Sparkies do...
I have seen some appalling examples of "tradesmanship" from licensed
"electricians". One case was discovering an "earth" wire that had been
loosely wrapped around a water pipe. Another case was when I asked the
"licensed electrician" over for a quote and he proceeded to unscrew an
access panel affixed with Philips head screws with a flat-blade
screwdriver. After I said something to him about the "right tool for
the job" and would he like to borrow one of mine, I never saw him
again :-)
David
Phil Allison
"David S. Maddison" <maddisonREMO...@connexus.net.au> wrote in
message news:v2n13vcrs2p6b81uj...@4ax.com...
** How does TPS installed in the same channel cut for water pipes in a
renovated bathroom and wrapped around the copper piping and tap fixtures
sound ?
Or TPS loosely draped under a bath tub in the air cavity and then
going up a channel in the wall EXACTLY where one might fit a shower screen.
All the above is now nicely tiled over and invisible to a plumber or
other installer.
I have pics.
................ Phil
Dale
from mechanical damage, that is OK. Furthermore, one expects that the shower
should not leak and that the 'tub of water' will aos not leak.
Got any work for me?
;-)
Dale
"Phil Allison" <bi...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:Fg5Y9.31922$jM5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
live here
<maddisonREMO...@connexus.net.au> wrote:
>
>Can anyone confirm this?
>
>I was just told that the sale of DIY mains electrical stuff like
>powerpoints and cables is going to be banned to all but licensed
>electrical contractors.
>
>David
(Cross post a message elsewhere on aus.electronics)
Adding a comment about the sparkies protecting there god given patch
>> Others have addressed your main questions. I would just like to add:
>>
>> A sparkies ticket is a really handy thing to have if you ever consider
>> becoming an electronics tech later on.
>>
>> I've lost count of the number of times I've had to pay a sparky to
>> sign off mains work that I've done during electronic equipment
>> installs.
>>
>> Why the heck can't a qualified electronics tech sit electrical
>> standards exams?
>
>Can't you do the 6 month wiring course at TAFE?
>
>http://www.tafensw.edu.au/cgi-bin/rdbweb/handbook/xgetcourse_to?VCOURSE_NO=9968&MODE=H&PRINTVER_IND=N
>
> duncan
No, i inquired with the office of the cheif electrical inspector
(Victoria) about allied trades getting a licence, the guy said you
have to compleat a Cert III in electrical theroy and HAVE entered into
a 4 year trade apprentiship, no other way is possible, even any one
with a degree or diploma cannot convert to a sparkie with out doing a
4 year apprentership.
I belive its a scam cooked up by the sparkies union to stop a non
apprentership getting sparkie ticket, so much for reconition of pryor
learning and experance and the freedom of self improvement eg
electronics ppls and other electrical trades with some TAFE courses
and some hands on experance becoming a sparkie.
Also the disconnect and connect licence is a scam too, think about it,
sparkie has to connect up to it. its impossible to connect up to fixed
pre wiring from a sparkie, your only allowed to disconnect and
reconnect to the same bit of fixed wiring.
This scam makes it impossible for remote poiwer installers
(solar,gensets,ect) to even connect from a inverter output to fixed
house wiring.
When debating with a sparkie mate of mine he says only apprentiship
trained are allowed to do any work, but its ok for sparkies to get
into Data, IT, Telecomms, instrumentation ect.
Phil Allison
"Dale" <dale_g...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:qA5Y9.23270$m47....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> ********************* Sounds OK to me.
** Who are you ??
> As long as it isn't likely to suffer from mechanical damage, that is OK.
** Shame about a plumber making a hole to get to the pipes.
Furthermore, one expects that the shower
> should not leak and that the 'tub of water' will aos not leak.
** Who expects that NOT to happen - the fucking tooth fairy ?
............. Phil
David Milne
Which paper?
--
Regards
David Milne
KLR
Fraser Coast Chronicle (regional paper)
Dale
You obviously missed the joke and who are you to question who I am? What
does it matter? I made an observation completely tongue in cheek and you
flame me for it you self righteous arsehole. These groups are for people to
ask and and their knowledge and experiences and the reader can make their
own judgements, it is not for you to question the world just because it is
not the Phil Allison way.
I've been lurking for a while and have noticed your condescending attitude
to anyone that hasn't agreed with you and this was just a little test to
prove my suspicions.
I can see you need to gain the attention by you pre-fixing all of your
comments with the double asterisk. I also included that just as some bait.
Hap[py to argur for some sport.
Dale
"Phil Allison" <bi...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:DQ5Y9.31959$jM5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Phil Allison
> Taken hook line and sinker like the dickhead you are.
** No way - you have just made a complete ass of yourself.
> You obviously missed the joke and who are you to question who I am?
** I can question anyone I like here - Mr Yahoo fuckwit.
> What does it matter?
** Why does anything matter ? Not to a defective turd like you it
don't.
> I made an observation completely tongue in cheek and you
> flame me for it you self righteous arsehole.
** Your tongue was better off somewhaee else and you were not flamed, just
challenged.
> These groups are for people to ask and and their knowledge and
experiences and the reader can make their own judgements, it is not for you
to question the world just because it is
> not the Phil Allison way.
** Clearly you are a sister fucker - so go and continue the job.
> > I've been lurking for a while and have noticed your condescending
attitude
> to anyone that hasn't agreed with you and this was just a little test to
> prove my suspicions.
** All you have proved is that you are a total scumbag and an idiot.
>
> I can see you need to gain the attention by you pre-fixing all of your
> comments with the double asterisk. I also included that just as some bait.
** Go bare your boney arse at the "'wall" - see what big fish you catch
there.
............. Phil
Dale
>
> "Dale" <dale_g...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:jV7Y9.24017$m47....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> > Taken hook line and sinker like the dickhead you are.
>
>
> ** No way - you have just made a complete ass of yourself.
Phil, you just replied to me. You must be eating the bait.
And how may I have just made an ass of myself? Again, you replied didn't
you? Do a Google search for your own name and see how stupid you look. The
top 20 posts all question the way you behave in these forums.
>
>
> > You obviously missed the joke and who are you to question who I am?
>
>
> ** I can question anyone I like here - Mr Yahoo fuckwit.
On what basis?
>
>
> > What does it matter?
>
>
> ** Why does anything matter ? Not to a defective turd like you it
> don't.
So, we agree on that point. Don't question who I am in the future if it does
not matter. Just goes to show you really have no control.
>
>
> > I made an observation completely tongue in cheek and you
> > flame me for it you self righteous arsehole.
>
>
> ** Your tongue was better off somewhaee else and you were not flamed,
just
> challenged.
No, a challenge would include some form of basis on which to challenge me.
You simply made wild statements with little or no sanity to them at all.
ld just because it is
> > not the Phil Allison way.
>
>
> ** Clearly you are a sister fucker - so go and continue the job.
So you enjoy sister fscking do you? Must have hit a raw nerve on that one -
geez, sorry.
>
>
>
> > > I've been lurking for a while and have noticed your condescending
> attitude
> > to anyone that hasn't agreed with you and this was just a little test to
> > prove my suspicions.
>
>
> ** All you have proved is that you are a total scumbag and an idiot.
A scumbag, noooo, not me. An idiot, definitely not. I am just challenging
your language to others in this forum. Seems that this has been done before.
>
> >
> > I can see you need to gain the attention by you pre-fixing all of your
> > comments with the double asterisk. I also included that just as some
bait.
>
>
> ** Go bare your boney arse at the "'wall" - see what big fish you
catch
> there.
Yeah, right. Great comment. Are one liners all you have to add to this
world?
>
> ............. Phil
>
>
>
Phil Allison
.
>
> > ** No way - you have just made a complete ass of yourself.
>
> >
> >
> > ** I can question anyone I like here - Mr Yahoo fuckwit.
>
> On what basis?
** Any basis I like.
>
> >
> > > What does it matter?
> >
> >
> > ** Why does anything matter ? Not to a defective turd like you it
> > don't.
> >
> >
> > > I made an observation completely tongue in cheek and you
> > > flame me for it you self righteous arsehole.
> >
> >
> > ** Your tongue was better off somewhere else and you were not flamed,
> just challenged.
>
> No, a challenge would include some form of basis on which to challenge me.
** You made a claim as if you were an expert - so I challenged your cred.
> > ** Clearly you are a sister fucker - so go and continue the job.
>
> So you enjoy sister fscking do you? Must have hit a raw nerve on that
one -
> geez, sorry.
** In your case the gal is likely under 10 - you can get 20 years
for that.
>
> > > > I've been lurking for a while and have noticed your condescending
> > attitude> > to anyone that hasn't agreed with you and this was just a
little test to
> > > prove my suspicions.
> >
> >
> > ** All you have proved is that you are a total scumbag and an
idiot.
> ** Go bare your boney arse at the "'wall" - see what big fish you
> catch> there.
>
> Yeah, right. Great comment. Are one liners all you have to add to this
> world?
>
** I have one line for the likes of you - go to hell.
.............. Phil
Dale
>
>
> ** Any basis I like.
>
>
> ** You made a claim as if you were an expert - so I challenged your
cred.
No I did not make any claim as an expert and nor did you challenge my
credibility on this matter - you flamed me. Simple. As I said, a challenge
would include some form of basis on which to challenge me. You asked me who
I am, that was not relevant in my post.
The tune of my original post was quite obvious. I even included a smiley to
indicate the nature of my post. Cynicism is obviously lost on you. You need
to get out more. Are you one of those smelly nerd types?
>
> > > ** Clearly you are a sister fucker - so go and continue the job.
>
> >
> > So you enjoy sister fscking do you? Must have hit a raw nerve on that
> one -
> > geez, sorry.
>
>
> ** In your case the gal is likely under 10 - you can get 20
years
> for that.
Phil, please. You have posted this sort of smut before and is belittles you.
All it takes is a quick check on Google.
It does nothing more that demonstrate the state of your mind and how close
to the gutter it really is. Please use you brain and part with that
knowledge in a more social way.
> ** I have one line for the likes of you - go to hell.
Nope, not tonight I won't. And what might my type be Phil? Tell me. There
you go, an opening for more than a one line reply or are you incapable of
communicating with people in a civil sense which is the crux of my flame?
Acknowledged that my flame to you was not civil but hey, you started it by
being condescending to me!
Bye for now....
>
>
> .............. Phil
>
>
>
Phil Allison
>
> > >
> > ** You made a claim as if you were an expert - so I challenged your
cred.
>
> No I did not make any claim as an expert
** You missed the word " if " - it was implied.
and nor did you challenge my
> credibility on this matter - you flamed me. Simple. As I said, a challenge
> would include some form of basis on which to challenge me. You asked me
who
> I am, that was not relevant in my post.
** Silly - asking who you are was a request to see if you were an
electrician or similar.
I was not after your surname.
>
> The tune of my original post was quite obvious. I even included a smiley
to
> indicate the nature of my post. Cynicism is obviously lost on you. You
need
> to get out more. Are you one of those smelly nerd types?
** Your smiley was highly ambiguous and you have said here you were out
to get me so stop lying.
> > > > ** Clearly you are a sister fucker - so go and continue the job.
> >
> > >
> > > So you enjoy sister fscking do you? Must have hit a raw nerve on that
> > one -> > geez, sorry.
> >
> >
> > ** In your case the gal is likely under 10 - you can get 20
> years > for that.
>
> Phil, please. You have posted this sort of smut before and is belittles
you.
> All it takes is a quick check on Google.
** The comment is to slam home that you have no grounds for your attack
on me.
Only scum abuse and attack for the sheer hell of it - esp when the
topic is electrical safety. I mean how fucking low are you ????
>
> It does nothing more that demonstrate the state of your mind and how close
> to the gutter it really is. Please use you brain and part with that
> knowledge in a more social way.
>
** I have one line for the likes of you - go to hell.
>
> Nope, not tonight I won't. And what might my type be Phil? Tell me. There
> you go, an opening for more than a one line reply or are you incapable of
> communicating with people in a civil sense which is the crux of my flame?
** Read you own fucking smartasre posts - why should I play into the
hands of a jerk who wants to attack me ?? You want a civilised
discusion ? - then do not post smart bullshit.
> > Acknowledged that my flame to you was not civil but hey, you started it
by
> being condescending to me!
** You are never the judge of your own childish misconceptions.
................ Phil
Jon
inspection) should be made with a certificate of
compliance. The other options are all crap ideas which don't create safe
practices.. Huge fines for non compliance. Councils should be made
responsible.
"Phil Allison" <bi...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:Fg5Y9.31922$jM5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Phil Allison
"Jon" <nospam...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:3e31e8e5$1...@news.alphalink.com.au...
> Compulsory wiring inspections on sale or rentals of homes (Safety
> inspection) should be made with a certificate of
> compliance.
** How do you inspect wiring that is completely hidden behind ceramic
tiles.?
............ Phil
Hamish Lucas
Like not being able to buy some parts for your toilet, unless you're a
plumber - Bah! tell me they're not the most overpaid and under - worked!
Anytime they need work it's just sitting there waiting for them. I also
understand that only so many plumbers can be apprenticed per year keeping
the overall number down. Does/Will this happen to electricians? will they
become the new hated tradesmen?
Hamish Lucas
"KLR" <kr...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:ocbu2v8cmeipks5tq...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:10:17 +1100, David S. Maddison
> <maddisonREMO...@connexus.net.au> wrote:
>
> >
> >Can anyone confirm this?
> >
> >I was just told that the sale of DIY mains electrical stuff like
> >powerpoints and cables is going to be banned to all but licensed
> >electrical contractors.
> >
> >David
>
>
Phil Allison
"Hamish Lucas" <hlucas*ANTISPAM*@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:fKmY9.1322$7y2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I heard this on radio in Vic the other night... Very worrying stuff
> Like not being able to buy some parts for your toilet, unless you're a
> plumber - Bah!
** Hmmm - no shit ?
> tell me they're not the most overpaid and under - worked!
> Anytime they need work it's just sitting there waiting for them.
** Fulla shit.
I also
> understand that only so many plumbers can be apprenticed per year keeping
> the overall number down. Does/Will this happen to electricians? will they
> become the new hated tradesmen?
** Both trades are overcrowded - and have been for decades.
................ Phil
Hamish Lucas
you need one?
Hamish Lucas
"Phil Allison" <bi...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:7DnY9.32554$jM5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Phil Allison
> If both trades are over crowded then why is it so hard to get a plumber
when
> you need one?
** That silly cliche is false.
For a tradseman to be available whenever you need them at a moment's
notice and outside normal hours implies they have no work on.
If your claim were true then there is a simple solution to
unemployment that everyone has missed.
Ergo - you are wrong.
Ask any plumber how easy it is to make a reasonable living.
.......... Phil
Rod Speed
> Compulsory wiring inspections on sale or rentals of homes
> (Safety inspection) should be made with a certificate of compliance.
Completely impractical and a complete waste of a very high cost.
> The other options are all crap ideas which don't create safe practices..
Neither would that. People would just get the work
redone before flogging the house, just like they often
get it painted etc and basic repairs done first.
> Huge fines for non compliance.
Mindless stuff.
> Councils should be made responsible.
More mindless stuff.
Have fun listing enough injurys caused by illegal
use of what can be bought down at Kmart etc to
warrant that sort of mindlessly draconian approach.
The absolute vast bulk of deaths are when whats legal
aint done properly, like replacing a plug on an appliance
etc or not replacing one that needs to be replaced etc.
Chris Hailes
I heard in was in the building industry and other industrial jobs, not
homes!.
How do they plan to stop people overloading power points?
There were 5 house fires for this reason in one night in Sydney last winter.
(ABC News)
Powerboards: There is no standards for these. There was a house fire in a
National Trust protected house belonging to a NSW State Minister in my area
last month due to a Power Board. The poor contacts in these things have low
contact pressure and arcing occurs, heat is generated, and a fire starts.
This fire destroyed half the house and the people were home at the time.
They became aware of the fire before the smoke detecters triggered.
I think if the Industry and Unions were actually concerned about Safety (and
not money) these areas would have been rectified long ago.
Chris
"live here" <misc_...@domestic.home> wrote in message
news:pqp13vkbeci321baj...@4ax.com...
Rod Speed
Chris Hailes <cha...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in
message news:b0tq6n$1fb5$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
> Anybody know where most of the Electricl Injuries and Deaths occur?
http://people.smartchat.net.au/~mash/Safety_Switch_Protection/Statistics/statistics.html
> I heard in was in the building industry and other industrial jobs, not homes!.
Thats always going to be extremely unlikely given that
there are a hell of a lot more homes than individuals
involved 'in the building industry and other industrial jobs'
Its hard to get a real handle on the numbers that matter tho. It
isnt really that sensible to use say deaths per thousand individuals
in homes and 'in the building industry and other industrial jobs'
> How do they plan to stop people overloading power points?
The standard is supposed to ensure that that shouldnt have
any worse effect than blowing the fuse or circuit breaker.
> There were 5 house fires for this reason in
> one night in Sydney last winter. (ABC News)
I'd want a hell of a lot more than just a claim
like that on that one on that 'overloading' claim.
> Powerboards: There is no standards for these.
Wrong.
> There was a house fire in a National Trust protected
> house belonging to a NSW State Minister in my area
> last month due to a Power Board.
So ?
> The poor contacts in these things have low contact pressure
> and arcing occurs, heat is generated, and a fire starts.
Normally only when someone is stupid enough to say run
an electrical heater or other high current device on one.
And there aint really any way to ensure that that sort of thing
cant happen, any more than there is to ensure that a physically
damaged cord to one of those devices cant say set fire to the
carpet etc. The obvious protection is smoke alarms etc. Corse
thats not much use if the house is unoccupied, but thats not
going to produce a death or injury usually.
> This fire destroyed half the house and the people were home at the time.
> They became aware of the fire before the smoke detecters triggered.
Sure. There will always be some risk when the stuff used in houses can
burn. No way of eliminating that risk short of requiring everything in the
house be not capable of burning etc and thats just not practical.
> I think if the Industry and Unions were actually concerned about Safety
> (and not money) these areas would have been rectified long ago.
Most of its just not feasible/practical.
Rod Speed
> Anybody know where most of the Electricl Injuries and Deaths occur?
http://people.smartchat.net.au/~mash/Safety_Switch_Protection/Statistics/statistics.html
http://www.ocei.vic.gov.au/electricalincidents.html
> I heard in was in the building industry and other industrial jobs, not homes!.
Thats always going to be extremely unlikely given that
there are a hell of a lot more homes than individuals
involved 'in the building industry and other industrial jobs'
Its hard to get a real handle on the numbers that matter tho. It
isnt really that sensible to use say deaths per thousand individuals
in homes and 'in the building industry and other industrial jobs'
> How do they plan to stop people overloading power points?
The standard is supposed to ensure that that shouldnt have
any worse effect than blowing the fuse or circuit breaker.
> There were 5 house fires for this reason in
> one night in Sydney last winter. (ABC News)
I'd want a hell of a lot more than just a claim
like that on that one on that 'overloading' claim.
> Powerboards: There is no standards for these.
Wrong.
> There was a house fire in a National Trust protected
> house belonging to a NSW State Minister in my area
> last month due to a Power Board.
So ?
> The poor contacts in these things have low contact pressure
> and arcing occurs, heat is generated, and a fire starts.
Normally only when someone is stupid enough to say run
an electrical heater or other high current device on one.
And there aint really any way to ensure that that sort of thing
cant happen, any more than there is to ensure that a physically
damaged cord to one of those devices cant say set fire to the
carpet etc. The obvious protection is smoke alarms etc. Corse
thats not much use if the house is unoccupied, but thats not
going to produce a death or injury usually.
> This fire destroyed half the house and the people were home at the time.
> They became aware of the fire before the smoke detecters triggered.
Sure. There will always be some risk when the stuff used in houses can
burn. No way of eliminating that risk short of requiring everything in the
house be not capable of burning etc and thats just not practical.
> I think if the Industry and Unions were actually concerned about Safety
> (and not money) these areas would have been rectified long ago.
Most of its just not feasible/practical.
KLR
<maddisonREMO...@connexus.net.au> wrote:
>
>Can anyone confirm this?
>
>I was just told that the sale of DIY mains electrical stuff like
>powerpoints and cables is going to be banned to all but licensed
>electrical contractors.
>
>David
also heard yesterday on the local TV news - that Big W and others
(QLD) were going to stop selling these items due to some "safety code
of practice". Whether this is Local, just QLD or national I have no
idea. Sounds very bloody stupid and PC to me.
Then again maybe they are worried that "someone might buy these items,
try to install them, zap themselves and sue them for supplying them".
If that is the case - mabe they had better stop sellling almost
everything they stock - as almost anything can be used to cause death
if used in the "right" way.
cdb
the new legislation is due more to a form of protectionism masquerading
under the title of safety. I come to that conclusion by
A) Having seen some of the house wiring performed by qualified electricians
(and before soemone points it out, yes I know the restricted doesn't allow
domestic wiring) as one example my original porch light (metal), was deemed
safe even though the earth wire was not in contact with the metal case but
held in place via its insulation and screw pressure. The wiring to my power
points is draped across nails and studs - no conduit, no trunking, no real
support.
B) Perhaps more importantly, the main reported deaths of recent times in Qld
have been by those in the electrical trade - mainly apprentices, but still
in the 'trade'
C) Most members of the public know that touching a line feed from the power
pole when its lurking on the ground is not a good idea, and for those who
seem to have no common sense at all and pick or tread (if the line can be
seen) on it need their heads examined (if they are still around) and no
legislation is going to stop that, unless it calls for underground cabling.
D) I am not aware of the public in the UK (from whence I was spawned) dying
in any greater numbers than in NZ or elsewhere, where the rules are more
relaxed, and in the UK people have to occasionally undo their mains plugs to
fit new fuses (for lead protection), when required.
E)If native Qld'ers have a problem dealing with electricity, then I just
hope they don't visit the UK where they will not be able to cope with a 3rd
rail for power on the railway line and here in Australia maybe the
authorities need to come up with some safety legislation concerning the
Pantagraphs as under the right circumstances they can kill the innocent
person sat sitting waiting for the train. Rare though this maybe - ask the
gentleman in Parramatta who waved his umbrella about on the staion during a
downpour back in the 70's and the overhead line shorted through his umbrella
and him!
And the cows still wouldn't know when to be milked if daylight saving ever
came in !
Colin
Rod Speed
cdb <bar...@webcityuk.zzn.com> wrote in message
news:3e33d2f5$0$27993$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> I live in Queensland and believe that the Restricted Electrical
> Licence and the new legislation is due more to a form of
> protectionism masquerading under the title of safety.
Yes.
> I come to that conclusion by
> A) Having seen some of the house wiring performed by qualified electricians
> (and before soemone points it out, yes I know the restricted doesn't allow
> domestic wiring) as one example my original porch light (metal), was deemed
> safe even though the earth wire was not in contact with the metal case but
> held in place via its insulation and screw pressure.
> The wiring to my power points is draped across nails
> and studs - no conduit, no trunking, no real support.
All that stuff is long gone with TPS. Not necessary.
> B) Perhaps more importantly, the main reported deaths
> of recent times in Qld have been by those in the electrical
> trade - mainly apprentices, but still in the 'trade'
Thats just plain wrong.
http://people.smartchat.net.au/~mash/Safety_Switch_Protection/Statistics/statistics.html
> C) Most members of the public know that touching a line feed from the
> power pole when its lurking on the ground is not a good idea, and for
> those who seem to have no common sense at all and pick or tread (if the
> line can be seen) on it need their heads examined (if they are still around)
> and no legislation is going to stop that, unless it calls for underground cabling.
Nothing to do with licensing.
> D) I am not aware of the public in the UK (from whence I was spawned)
> dying in any greater numbers than in NZ or elsewhere, where the rules
> are more relaxed, and in the UK people have to occasionally undo their
> mains plugs to fit new fuses (for lead protection), when required.
Maybe they have decided that the cane toads are much more
stupid and so need to be protected against themselves |-)
> E)If native Qld'ers have a problem dealing with electricity, then I just
> hope they don't visit the UK where they will not be able to cope with
> a 3rd rail for power on the railway line and here in Australia maybe the
> authorities need to come up with some safety legislation concerning the
> Pantagraphs as under the right circumstances they can kill the innocent
> person sat sitting waiting for the train. Rare though this maybe - ask the
> gentleman in Parramatta who waved his umbrella about on the staion
> uring a downpour back in the 70's and the overhead line shorted
> through his umbrella and him!
Some of the stupider canetoads have committed suicide
by deliberately climbing high voltage power poles. No loss.
Mike McBain
>I have seen some appalling examples of "tradesmanship" from licensed
>"electricians". One case was discovering an "earth" wire that had been
>loosely wrapped around a water pipe. Another case was when I asked the
>"licensed electrician" over for a quote and he proceeded to unscrew an
>access panel affixed with Philips head screws with a flat-blade
>screwdriver. After I said something to him about the "right tool for
>the job" and would he like to borrow one of mine, I never saw him
>again :-)
And we were lucky that the local council [which was also the electricity
supplier at the time] had mandatory electrical inspections following a
re-wire. The sparky had crossed active an neutral, failed to properly
connect the current-loop device, and had not earthed properly.
I now insist on tradeswomen. They always do a great job.
David Milne
Page 30 of the Melbourne Herald Sun (Sunday's issue) has a article about
Victorian unions going to ask the state government, this week, about introducing
legislation regarding restricting the sale of electrical items to the public.
Article is entitled "Union Bid to Switch Off DIY".
Time to stock up on those power points, switches, cables, and other gear
before the legislation is passed.
--
Regards
David Milne
Brian Goldsmith
"David Milne" <dmm...@ozemail.com.au>wrote
Page 30 of the Melbourne Herald Sun (Sunday's issue) has a article about
Victorian unions going to ask the state government, this week, about
introducing
legislation regarding restricting the sale of electrical items to the
public.
*****Is that true or did you read it in the Herald Sun?
Brian Goldsmith.
David Milne
I read it. Whether the article is true or not is another question.
--
Regards
David Milne
KLR
wrote:
That is true. We had 3 cases in 2002 of suicide by climbing 66,000v
poles here. blacked the town out for several hours each time. I have
no idea how you are going to stop that from happening. Than again the
suicide rate in this country is scary
Phil Allison
> Than again the suicide rate in this country is scary
** The suicide rate consists of about 90 % seriously mentally ill
people - mainly schizophrenics hearing voices. Many young suicides are
believed to be undiagnosed cases in the first acute stages.
A friend of mine (from long long ago) tried to exit a jet airliner in
mid flight with this problem - took all the cabin crew to restrain him.
............ Phil
cdb
store for when cars change to 48v systems (Bosch and Mercedes already have
48v vehicles lurking)? Perhaps a restricted car licence for repairing the
electrics/tronics.
I'm not sure whether this is so in Australia, but in many countries 50V dc
is the trigger point deciding whether the equipment is low voltage or high
voltage and which rules of engagement apply.
So telephone engineers -48v and aircraft/boats better look out.
colin
Rod Speed
Just do them so that the fried fuckwit just triggers an auto
recloser so the most that happens is that everyone gets to
cheer as another surplus fuckwit does the decent thing.
> Than again the suicide rate in this country is scary
Nope, just a public service.
In spades with the fuckwits that kill themselves with drug overdoses.
No loss.
Rod Speed
> KLR <kr...@bigpond.net.au> wrote
>> Than again the suicide rate in this country is scary
> The suicide rate consists of about 90 % seriously mentally
> ill people - mainly schizophrenics hearing voices.
Complete and utter bullshit.
> Many young suicides are believed to be
> undiagnosed cases in the first acute stages.
Complete and utter bullshit with the places with the worst suicide rates.
Even the stupid boongs dont have anything like that percentage of schitzos.
Its very very basic, even the stupidest have mostly noticed
that their pathetic excuse for a 'life' has passed its useby date.
No loss. At least with the 'young suicides' is mostly before
they manage to pass on their pathetic excuses for genes.
> A friend of mine (from long long ago) tried to exit a jet airliner in
> mid flight with this problem - took all the cabin crew to restrain him.
They should have given him the bums rush, right out into the slipstream.
That'd teach him a lesson.
Phil Allison
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b130vl$u924n$1...@ID-69072.news.dfncis.de...
>
> Phil Allison <bi...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:9P0Z9.33900$jM5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> > KLR <kr...@bigpond.net.au> wrote
>
> >> Than again the suicide rate in this country is scary
>
> > The suicide rate consists of about 90 % seriously mentally
> > ill people - mainly schizophrenics hearing voices.
>
> Complete and utter bullshit.
** So Rod hears voices but has not considered suicide ??
>
> > Many young suicides are believed to be
> > undiagnosed cases in the first acute stages.
>
> Complete and utter bullshit with the places with the worst suicide rates.
** You mean prisons ?
That is not "in the community" IMO.
>
> Even the stupid boongs dont have anything like that percentage of
schitzos.
** But they hate prison.
>
> Its very very basic, even the stupidest have mostly noticed
> that their pathetic excuse for a 'life' has passed its useby date.
** Cancer sufferers ?
>
> No loss. At least with the 'young suicides' is mostly before
> they manage to pass on their pathetic excuses for genes.
** Most of them have serious depression or hear voices.
>
> > A friend of mine (from long long ago) tried to exit a jet airliner in
> > mid flight with this problem - took all the cabin crew to restrain him.
>
> They should have given him the bums rush, right out into the slipstream.
>
> That'd teach him a lesson.
** With what I know now - I tend to agree.
.............. Phil
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Phil Allison <bi...@bigpond.com> wrote
>>> KLR <kr...@bigpond.net.au> wrote
>>>> Than again the suicide rate in this country is scary
>>> The suicide rate consists of about 90 % seriously mentally
>>> ill people - mainly schizophrenics hearing voices.
>> Complete and utter bullshit.
> So Rod hears voices but has not considered suicide ??
Even you should be able to bullshit your way out of your
predicament MUCH better than that pathetic effort, Allison.
>>> Many young suicides are believed to be
>>> undiagnosed cases in the first acute stages.
>> Complete and utter bullshit with the
>> places with the worst suicide rates.
> You mean prisons ?
Thats one obvious example. And when particularly with boongs,
most of them are in and out of prison, even someone as stupid
as you should be able to grasp that all the ones that end up
dead cant all be schizos. Its far too high a percentage.
And it aint just prisons, plenty of the absolute dregs
of 'communitys' have suicide rates that are FAR too
high to be 'mainly schizophrenics hearing voices.
> That is not "in the community" IMO.
Completely and utterely irrelevant to that stupid claim that
90% of suicides are 'mainly schizophrenics hearing voices'
>> Even the stupid boongs dont have
>> anything like that percentage of schitzos.
> But they hate prison.
Thats just another obvious reason for the suicides, stupid.
>> Its very very basic, even the stupidest have mostly noticed
>> that their pathetic excuse for a 'life' has passed its useby date.
> Cancer sufferers ?
Thats just one obvious example.
The other thats more relevant to 'young suicides' is that many
of them notice that they have no prospects what so ever and
that they'd be better off dead. They've mostly got that right too.
>> No loss. At least with the 'young suicides' is mostly before
>> they manage to pass on their pathetic excuses for genes.
> Most of them have serious depression or hear voices.
Slither, slither, slither, slither. Thats nothing like your original.
And its hardly very surprising that those that decide that they
have no future do tend to get just a tad depressed about that,
before they cut to the chase and top themselves. Particularly
those who havent got a damned thing to claim credit for. Just
complete duds for their entire pathetic excuse for an 'existence'
>>> A friend of mine (from long long ago) tried to exit a jet airliner in
>>> mid flight with this problem - took all the cabin crew to restrain him.
>> They should have given him the bums rush, right out into the slipstream.
>> That'd teach him a lesson.
> With what I know now - I tend to agree.
Yeah, there are plenty like that that should be given every assistance to
pull the plug on their pathetic excuse for a life if thats what they want to do.
All prison cells should have a rope available
and a video showing how to use it effectively.
Whats wrong with a self imposed death penalty ?
Ross Herbert
Not so Colin. While the telephone exchange battery is nominally 48V, it
is floated at 52V and boosted (when necessary) at around 54V.
Ross Herbert
> colin
cdb
Is that a world wide standard (the power boosting I mean, I know the Bell
standard was -48v) or here because of the distances signals have to travel
in some places?
Colin
Johns
1) I've owned 3 homes over a 20 year period and never had a leaky shower. Do
the job right and you won't!
2) I've encountered atrocious "professional" electrical installations. I've
also encountered hellishly dangerous DIY ones. No single example will settle
that question.
3) Can we just snip the SPAM short here - life's too short for that and
nobody's gonna win!
Cheers,
Johns
"Phil Allison" <bi...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:URaY9.32240$jM5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
>
> "Dale" <dale_g...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:S9aY9.24557$m47....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> >
> > > >
> > > ** You made a claim as if you were an expert - so I challenged your
> cred.
> >
> > No I did not make any claim as an expert
>
>
> ** You missed the word " if " - it was implied.
>
>
>
> and nor did you challenge my
> > credibility on this matter - you flamed me. Simple. As I said, a
challenge
> > would include some form of basis on which to challenge me. You asked me
> who
> > I am, that was not relevant in my post.
>
>
> ** Silly - asking who you are was a request to see if you were an
> electrician or similar.
>
> I was not after your surname.
>
> >
> > The tune of my original post was quite obvious. I even included a smiley
> to
> > indicate the nature of my post. Cynicism is obviously lost on you. You
> need
> > to get out more. Are you one of those smelly nerd types?
>
>
> ** Your smiley was highly ambiguous and you have said here you were out
> to get me so stop lying.
>
>
> > > > > ** Clearly you are a sister fucker - so go and continue the
job.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > So you enjoy sister fscking do you? Must have hit a raw nerve on
that
> > > one -> > geez, sorry.
> > >
> > >
> > > ** In your case the gal is likely under 10 - you can get 20
> > years > for that.
>
> >
> > Phil, please. You have posted this sort of smut before and is belittles
> you.
> > All it takes is a quick check on Google.
>
>
> ** The comment is to slam home that you have no grounds for your attack
> on me.
>
> Only scum abuse and attack for the sheer hell of it - esp when
the
> topic is electrical safety. I mean how fucking low are you ????
>
>
> >
> > It does nothing more that demonstrate the state of your mind and how
close
> > to the gutter it really is. Please use you brain and part with that
> > knowledge in a more social way.
> >
>
> ** I have one line for the likes of you - go to hell.
>
> >
> > Nope, not tonight I won't. And what might my type be Phil? Tell me.
There
> > you go, an opening for more than a one line reply or are you incapable
of
> > communicating with people in a civil sense which is the crux of my
flame?
>
>
> ** Read you own fucking smartasre posts - why should I play into the
> hands of a jerk who wants to attack me ?? You want a civilised
> discusion ? - then do not post smart bullshit.
>
>
> > > Acknowledged that my flame to you was not civil but hey, you started
it
> by
> > being condescending to me!
>
>
> ** You are never the judge of your own childish misconceptions.
>
>
> ................ Phil
>
>
Phil Allison
"Johns" <johns> wrote in message news:3e37...@news.rivernet.com.au...
> Nice robust discussion guys. A few points:
** Top posting is bad manners - the sure sign of a smartarse.
>
> 1) I've owned 3 homes over a 20 year period and never had a leaky shower.
Do
> the job right and you won't!
** Smartarse remark # 1.
> 2) I've encountered atrocious "professional" electrical installations.
I've
> also encountered hellishly dangerous DIY ones. No single example will
settle
> that question.
** Smartarse remark # 2
> 3) Can we just snip the SPAM short here - life's too short for that and
> nobody's gonna win!
** Smartarse remark # 3.
Dontcha love top posters.
........... Phil
KLR
wrote:
>********************* Sounds OK to me. As long as it isn't likely to suffer
>from mechanical damage, that is OK. Furthermore, one expects that the shower
>should not leak and that the 'tub of water' will aos not leak.
>
>Got any work for me?
Sounds like a BAD situation if they ever were to leak though doesn't
it, and in my experience plumbing fixtures some years on can and do
tend to leak at times . Doesnt even have to be a leak - what about
kids splashing water around in the tub (as kids do) and it finding its
way underneath and onto these live wires ?
Specially if there is water all over the floor and it becomes live
from the wiring and someone walks in it.
Jon
can give a pretty intimate clue about the rest of the wiring. If its not up
to standard under the plaster, its easily enough seen at the points as well.
For instance improper current carrying capacity wiring, too many points per
circuit, wiring to lighting circuits also used for power are distinct no
no's.
The first people's home to be inspected would be Rod's place. Any
one so concerned about not being inspected must be worried about bad wiring
and being found out. Its about SAFETY and proper wiring, not fining people
and if people did wire a home incorrectly they should not put other
people's lives at risk for the sake of a few dollars. Inspections initially
would be free, with fines for non compliance. If you're selling a home the
cost will hardly be an issue unless its really old. Then it should be
uninsurable anyway due to its condition as a fire hazard.
I've noticed that you comment on stuff you don't know about Rod.
As someone very old once said. I've learnt in life that in an emergency,
there is some one who'll come out of the crowd and take charge, quite often
that person is quite mad. We shouldn't take any notice of that person. I'll
continue to refer you to this site http://www.darwinawards.com/ hoping
you'll learn a little something. As to people committing suicide, Darwin had
a theory about that. Core leakage detectors can be very helpful in this
regard. (or unhelpful as the case maybe)
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b0t85n$t0nrr$1...@ID-69072.news.dfncis.de...
Rod Speed
Jon <nospam...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in
message news:3e38...@news.alphalink.com.au...
> If you knew about "inspections"
Know a hell of a lot more about it than you do thanks.
> then you'd realise that wiring where seen can give
> a pretty intimate clue about the rest of the wiring.
Bullshit. Particularly with minor changes made later in the
process of some DIY work. There's plenty of situations where
there aint no access to whats been done at the time of the
sale of the property. So it cant be 'inspected' effectively.
Yours is just another mindless draconian bullshit exercise that
just plain cant work to detect a bit of illegal DIY work and
would add greatly to the cost of selling all houses. No thanks.
> If its not up to standard under the plaster,
> its easily enough seen at the points as well.
Sometimes it is, quite a bit of the time, it aint. Particuarly
if there has only been a bit of minor illegal DIY work done.
> For instance improper current carrying capacity
> wiring, too many points per circuit, wiring to lighting
> circuits also used for power are distinct no no's.
Yes, but there is plenty of other illegal DIY work that cant
be that easily detected, particularly when its done by someone
who does understand the regulations, does the work as required
by the regulations, and just isnt legally qualified to do that work
because of the stupid closed shop bullshit exercises used to
limit the number of licensed individuals in the industry.
> The first people's home to be inspected would be Rod's place.
Guess which fool just made a VERY spectacular fool of itself ?
I did ALL the wiring on the house that I built myself. ALL of it was
done as per the regulations which arent that hard to follow for
basic installations like houses. An electrician claimed that he had
done the work and it WAS inspected, just like all new houses are.
The only thing that was at all out of the ordinary was with a single
vertical 4x4" RHS section between two patio doors, with 8 switches
mounted on the inside face, with the TPS outer stripped off the
wires where they were inside that vertical RHS. That 4x4" RHS
has a much heavier 5x3x0.5" horizontal RHS that forms the structural
beam across the top of the patio doors. That 5x3" horizontal RHS
has proper bushed holes in it using plastic conduit and the TPS outer
was removed to reduce the size of what goes thru the 5x3 RHS.
Perfectly legal as per the regulations. I just twisted the groups
of wires to the individual switches together to keep them grouped
and the electrician wanted that twisting removed just because he
said that the inspector would realise that it wasnt an electrician who
had done that, even tho it was perfectly legal to twist them together.
> Any one so concerned about not being inspected
> must be worried about bad wiring and being found out.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
I chose to follow the regulations to the letter and GOT it inspected
thanks. And it passed fine without a single change required.
> Its about SAFETY and proper wiring,
Duh.
> not fining people and if people did wire a home incorrectly they should
> not put other people's lives at risk for the sake of a few dollars.
I put no one's life at risk, fool. If anything there was LESS risk than
with the normal domestic installation just because I chose to have
a lot more power points etc than usual, because the extra cost
was peanuts when it was just the cost of the materials involved.
> Inspections initially would be free,
No inspection can ever be free, fool. Someone has to pay for the
considerable effort required to do that sort of inspection at every sale.
There aint no free lunch.
> with fines for non compliance. If you're selling a home
> the cost will hardly be an issue unless its really old.
Complete and utter drivel. The sort of inspection required
to catch any illegal DIY addition done since the last sale
would be substantial even if nothing was found.
The only really feasible approach would be a complete list of
everything electrical installation wise in the house, with photos
etc of every powerpoint, so you could work out if someone
had changed a power point when one failed without using an
electrician, and a complete set of receipts for all electrical
work done, so if a power point did get changed between sales,
you could prove that a licensed electrician had changed it.
And even all of that wouldnt be able to catch the removal
of wall plates while painting etc unless you had a full
mindless bureaucratic bullshit exercise to record all painting
and record that an electrician had moved the plates etc.
> Then it should be uninsurable anyway
> due to its condition as a fire hazard.
You clearly aint got a fucking clue about what actually happens
with the insurance of older houses. Or anything else either.
> I've noticed that you comment on stuff you don't know about Rod.
You have no way of knowing what I know about, fool.
> As someone very old once said.
Usual utterly silly stereotype bullshit.
> I've learnt in life that in an emergency, there is some one who'll
> come out of the crowd and take charge, quite often that person
> is quite mad. We shouldn't take any notice of that person.
What a terminal fuckwit. There are countless examples
of those who have taken charge in an emergency who
have done one hell of an effective job at saving lives etc.
> I'll continue to refer you to this site
> http://www.darwinawards.com/
> hoping you'll learn a little something.
You couldnt actually learn a damned
thing in a sheltered workshop, fool.
> As to people committing suicide,
> Darwin had a theory about that.
Chaz had a theory about all sorts of things, including
one about the choice between a wife and a dog too.
> Core leakage detectors can be very helpful in
> this regard. (or unhelpful as the case maybe)
Gone blind yet ?
David S. Maddison
2003 21:10:17 +1100 David S. Maddison
<maddisonREMO...@connexus.net.au> wrote:
>
>Can anyone confirm this?
>
>I was just told that the sale of DIY mains electrical stuff like
>powerpoints and cables is going to be banned to all but licensed
>electrical contractors.
If you are concerned about this issue, I suggest you write to or fax
the Minister (emails are taken lightly in general).
The Honourable Theo Theophanous
Minister for Energy and Resources
LEVEL 26, NAURU HOUSE
80 COLLINS ST, MELBOURNE 3000
Fax 9655 6304
David
Jon
unsafe "routing" practice. any point can be removed to see if its using the
right cabling and connected the right way to the correct fuses. Where its
exposed wiring will soon tell a story. Am I wrong to say some of us feel
guilty?news:GgmY9.32500$jM5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
>
> "Jon" <nospam...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3e31e8e5$1...@news.alphalink.com.au...
>
> > Compulsory wiring inspections on sale or rentals of homes (Safety
> > inspection) should be made with a certificate of
> > compliance.
>
>
> tiles.?
>
>
> ............ Phil
>
>
>
Jon
I was right about you.
Re drugs who needs 'em.
Paranoia is something to be treated.
We don't need a long explanation from
you to understand your problem.news:b19e13$115lb9$1...@ID-69072.news.dfncis.de...
WHAT THE
family. Why should I go to med school to learn what it's really about?
We all know what happens when some fool defends himself in court.
The DIY handy man should feel free to change fuses and light globes.... not
rewire houses.
Why do electricians have to go to trade school and serve an apprenticeship?
The only thing worse than a DIY electrician, is a text-book electrician
(usually from the electronics field) who is a bloody expert...not.
Penny pinch if you must, but the law still requires you to be licensed and
most importantly...insured.
We
Jon wrote in message <3e42...@news.alphalink.com.au>...
David S. Maddison
2003 22:55:53 +1030 "'WHAT THE'" <che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>hmmmm... I think I know enough about medicine to perform surgery on my
>family. Why should I go to med school to learn what it's really about?
Apart from anything else, we are looking at significantly different
skill sets.
>We all know what happens when some fool defends himself in court.
Sometimes. OTOH, there are also a lot of bad lawyers out there...
>The DIY handy man should feel free to change fuses and light globes.... not
>rewire houses.
Well, since we are talking about an item of someone's PROPERTY, I'm
glad you agree that they should be allowed to change their own light
bulbs and fuses! In fact, I believe it is technically illegal to do
these things even under the current law in most states.
>Why do electricians have to go to trade school and serve an apprenticeship?
To learn a trade, and then to restrict the numbers of people being
produced in that profession in order to create a monopoly. Yes, just
like doctors do.
>The only thing worse than a DIY electrician, is a text-book electrician
>(usually from the electronics field) who is a bloody expert...not.
Well, I have seen some appalling examples of "tradesmanship" from
"licensed" "electricians" and some superb examples from unlicensed
people.
>Penny pinch if you must, but the law still requires you to be licensed and
>most importantly...insured.
Its not about penny-pinching, its about freedom of choice.
Also, it is LEGAL to do your own house-wiring, as long as codes are
followed, in nearly all of the UK, NZ, Canada and the USA.
But then again, they are slightly more free of safety-Nazis and
self-serving trade unions than we are...
Daid
Jon
wiring? Apparently people who are capable of wiring homes are already wiring
and having their electrician friends checking the wiring anyway. Its no
different from having an apprentice doing the work. Its one step further.message news:057f4vgprhqscklj5...@4ax.com...
WHAT THE
Changing a light globe and replacing a fuse is not classified as an
alteration to fixed wiring and therefore is not technically illegal in most
states... This is what happens when you look at the standards without the
correct training... you don't know how to decipher the rule book
stick to what you do best... writing boring responses in newsgroups
Jon wrote in message <3e4b...@news.alphalink.com.au>...
Rod Speed
WHAT THE <che...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mKM1a.44616$jM5.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> hmmmm... I think I know enough about medicine to perform surgery on
> my family. Why should I go to med school to learn what it's really about?
Plenty do know enough about basic medicine to deal with
what they are capable of dealing with themselves, and to
get the assistence of someone medically trained for the rest.
True in spades with particularly domestic electrical wiring.
I know enough to not attempt to repair the local electricity substation
if it goes bang and the supply authority doesnt show up quickly enough.
> We all know what happens when some fool defends himself in court.
Quite a bit of the time, those who do that do quite well.
> The DIY handy man should feel free to change
> fuses and light globes.... not rewire houses.
You get no say what so ever on what I can do safely.
I built the entire house, physically, myself, and did
all the electrical wiring, and it passed inspection fine.
AND when I did the concrete slab, had the hilarious
experience of the local council tell those who did those
as part of their trade, that they should have a look at
mine, because that was how it was supposed to be done.
I just followed the standard, used bar chairs at the specified
intervals. Those doing that work full time just hook the mesh
up as the concrete is poured, contrary to the standard.
> Why do electricians have to go to trade
> school and serve an apprenticeship?
Mostly to minimise the number entering the industry.
There is no other valid expanation for why you cant
just sit the formal exam on what the regulations require.
And why there isnt a restricted license that
allows you to work on house wiring etc.
> The only thing worse than a DIY electrician,
> is a text-book electrician (usually from the
> electronics field) who is a bloody expert...not.
Utterly mindless bullshit, as always from vested interest fools like you.
> Penny pinch if you must, but the law still requires you to be licensed
And some of us will do an end run around any stupid law.
> and most importantly...insured.
Thats only a relatively recent legal requirement.
And is primarily intended to ensure that employees are covered.
Rod Speed
Jon <gre...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:3e42...@news.alphalink.com.au...
> Thanks for your explanation Rod.
> I was right about you.
Lie. You got egg all over your silly
little face, very spectacularly indeed.
> Re drugs who needs 'em.
> Paranoia is something to be treated.
Paranoia cant be treated.
> We don't need a long explanation
> from you to understand your problem.
Even you should be able to bullshit your way out of
your predicament MUCH better than that pathetic effort.
Rod Speed
> You don't. You are just testing for safety compliance.
Not feasible in the ultimate.
> You're looking for unsafe "routing" practice.
Not feasible in the ultimate.
> any point can be removed to see if its using the right
> cabling and connected the right way to the correct fuses.
And quite a bit of the wiring cant actually be checked at all.
> Where its exposed wiring will soon tell a story.
And where it cant be exposed, it cant.
> Am I wrong to say some of us feel guilty?
Yep, just more of your pathetic excuse for bullshit.