[poll] another top 5
n4cat
On another but similar note I was thinking of posting a challenge for ppl to
write a short story or play with all the dialogue being song lyrics from
nominated songs. Any one interested? May be we could put the best ones on
the acg short story site? Hobbes any idea?
--
n4cat
"in vino veritas" Doc Holliday, Tombstone
Kitsune
>What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
Hrmmm... in no order (and I'll cheat too)
1. The Cat in the Hat . (and all its sequels...etc)
2. Through the Looking Glass.
3. Moon Dance by SP Somtow
4. The Art of War (helps me meditate and I prefer this to Machiavelli's The
Prince, plus its just the right height to stop my desk at home from wobbling)
5. Oxford English Dictionary
yeah I'm boring.
Kitsune, its odd though, the above aren't my most read books, just the most
memorable ones I've read/used.
--
-Quis Hanc Felem Exhaurit-
Tim Hamilton
> What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
In no particular order :
Ishmael by Daniel Webb
Neuromancer by William Gibson
Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy by Douglas Adams
Voice Of The Whirlwind by Walter Jon Williams (Bruce Sterling ?)
The Way Of Zen by Alan Watts
> On another but similar note I was thinking of posting a challenge for ppl to
> write a short story or play with all the dialogue being song lyrics from
> nominated songs. Any one interested? May be we could put the best ones on
> the acg short story site? Hobbes any idea?
Oh god, aus.culture.gothic's Spectacular Spectacular :)
Tim
"If I had any humility I would be perfect." - Ted Turner
Tim Hamilton
[top 5 snippage]
> Kitsune, its odd though, the above aren't my most read books, just the most
> memorable ones I've read/used.
That's how I rated mine, the ones that had the strongest mark on me.
Tim
Trayce
>What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
ooh ooh, I like this one :) Do you mean just novels, or can we include
non-fiction, books of poetry, short story comps etc? I'll just pick my
5 "books" and not be specific I think.
Now I'm not a huge reader I gotta admit, but I do have some firm faves
(books I'll get out and re-read lots, which I regard as a pretty good
indicator) In no particular order (and I bet I remember something else
later):
Perfume - Patrick Susskind
The Bell Jar - Sylvia Plath (yeah cliched I know who cares)
The Man who Mistook his Wife for a Hat - Oliver Sacks
Life is Elsewhere - Milan Kundera
Here be Dragons - Graeme Base (the pictures are cool!)
Theres one other book I'm quite sure would be in the list if I was
able to *find* a copy of it, in English, in Australia - and thats
"L'ecume de Jours" by Boris Vian - but alas I cannot find it anywhere
:(
>On another but similar note I was thinking of posting a challenge for ppl to
>write a short story or play with all the dialogue being song lyrics from
>nominated songs. Any one interested? May be we could put the best ones on
>the acg short story site? Hobbes any idea?
Hmm sounds interesting - do you mean just whenever a character says
anything they say it in song lyrics? It kinda reminds me of ... was it
a Late Show sketch or something suchlike? heh.
I'd be up for it ;)
Trayce (it would come out pretty silly tho!)
--
faith in chaos
trace @ connect.net.au
new site: http://www.memorygongs.f2s.com
Sandro
"n4cat" <n4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
damn I hate these polls. Only because selecting 5 of my favourite
anythings is pretty much impossible due to the vastness of
choices. I'll try, but I doubt I'll stay at five.
* One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
* Perfume by Patrick Suskind.
* Magician's Law + Demon's Law by Michael Scott
* Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe
* Neuromancer by William Gibson.
* Gargantua and Pantagruel by Francoise Rabalais.
* The Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay
* Ambient by Jack Womack
* The Passion by Jeanette Winterson
* The Earthsea Trilogy by Ursula Le Guin
* Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky
it is by only extreme force of sheer will power that I restrict
myself to 11 (and thereabouts) choices.
>On another but similar note I was thinking of posting a
>challenge for ppl to write a short story or play with all the
>dialogue being song lyrics from nominated songs. Any one
>interested? May be we could put the best ones on the acg short
>story site? Hobbes any idea?
"Oh Mickey", she said, "It's a pity you don't understand."
"Understand what?", said Mickey.
"You take me by the heart when you take me by the hand."
"Oh, that, well if you truly think that I'm so fine, I'm so fine
I blow your mind, then show me, get on your knees."
"Oh Mickey!" she exclaimed, and went down.
Sandro - it hurt me just to write that.
--
Carthage Must Be Destroyed - Cato the Elder
n4cat
> n4cat wrote:
>
<snip books>
>
> > On another but similar note I was thinking of posting a challenge for
ppl to
> > write a short story or play with all the dialogue being song lyrics from
> > nominated songs. Any one interested? May be we could put the best ones
on
> > the acg short story site? Hobbes any idea?
>
>
> Oh god, aus.culture.gothic's Spectacular Spectacular :)
Does this mean you like the idea or you don't??
*grin*
Tim Hamilton
> Hmm sounds interesting - do you mean just whenever a character says
> anything they say it in song lyrics? It kinda reminds me of ... was it
> a Late Show sketch or something suchlike? heh.
It was Jimeoin, Bob Franklin and the guy who used to play Uncle Arthur
on the Comedy Company.
> I'd be up for it ;)
Ditto, lyrics depending.
Tim
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves." - Jerry Garcia
n4cat
--
n4cat
"in vino veritas" Doc Holliday, Tombstone
"Tim Hamilton" <ti...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:3B664657...@bigpond.net.au...
n4cat
> Trayce wrote:
>
>
> > I'd be up for it ;)
>
>
> Ditto, lyrics depending.
Well we need someone to specify a list of songs from which the lyrics
originate.
They would have to be fairly well known.
Maybe Miss B or Neef could come up with something. I'm not that well versed
in trad goff to be of any use.
Neef
in the Weekly World News headlines claiming :
>
>Well we need someone to specify a list of songs from which the lyrics
>originate.
>They would have to be fairly well known.
>Maybe Miss B or Neef could come up with something. I'm not that well versed
>in trad goff to be of any use.
*Stops*
*thinks*
Im going to take that as a compliment :)
*goes back to writing*
Neef (blah)
--
You know, maybe it was the syphilis talking, But some of
that actually made sense.
neef @ vurt . net
Kage-Ryu
a refrigerator into their person and screamed:
>What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
These are the ones I can read over and over and never get sick of -
there are more than five and I don't care:
House of the Spirits, by Isabel Allende
Memoirs of a Geisha, by Arthur Golden
Queen Kat, Carmel and St. Jude Get A Life, by Maureen McCarthy
(childhood favourite)
Gone With The Wind, by Margaret Mitchell
Little Women, by Louisa May Alcott
Looking for Alibrandi, Melina Marchetta (another of the childhood
ones)
Sister of my Heart, by Chitra Banerjee Divankaruni (probably spelt
wrong)
Cloudstreet, by Tim Winton
Kage-Ryu
"Crazy, I'm halfway to crazy
Suicide could save me
Oh no, but that is too extreme."
The Jesus and Mary Chain
Thorfinn
A Wizard of Earthsea - Ursula Le Guin
The rest of the series is not bad either, but A Wizard of Earthsea
is the best of the lot.
Burning Chrome - William Gibson
The whole collection, not just the title story. If I were to pick a
favourite, Johnny Mnemonic (not the goddamn movie-plot, the actual
short story), is the best of them.
The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress - R.A. Heinlein
The one book of his that manages to span his entire career
progression (from Boys' Own In Space, through Anarcho Libertarian
Politics, to Dirty Old Man Wot Likes Redheads), and do it all well.
Lady or the Tiger? And Other Logic Puzzles Including a Mathematical
Novel That Features Godel's Great Discovery - Raymond Smullyan
My first introduction into the world of Discrete Mathematics, at the
age of about 10. Logic puzzles involving the notions of truth,
falsehood, and that horribly twisty line in between called paradox.
Alice Through The Looking Glass - Lewis Carroll
Better than Alice in Wonderland, by quite a long way. Much more
complex ideas, and much fun in odd corners of mathematicsland.
Lord Of The Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien
I think this may be cheating, since the thing is actually six books
(yes, six, it's usually published as three bound in pairs, with each
pair given a single name) long, so I've put it as an extra one... If
it counts, it'd be swapped with Through The Looking Glass, and that
would be out of the five.
Ook,
Thorf
--
<a href="http://tertius.net.au/~thorfinn">thor...@tertius.net.au</a>
Starg the intergalactic Hippopotamus says, "Remember kids, don't
eat the game wardens, their tranquilisers work either way!"
-- Neef <ne...@vurt.net> in aus.culture.gothic
Trayce
wrote:
>Trayce wrote:
>
>> Hmm sounds interesting - do you mean just whenever a character says
>> anything they say it in song lyrics? It kinda reminds me of ... was it
>> a Late Show sketch or something suchlike? heh.
>
>
>It was Jimeoin, Bob Franklin and the guy who used to play Uncle Arthur
>on the Comedy Company.
That was the one! ;) It was very funny :)
Trayce (who is thinking...oh no! I'm using my braaaain!)
rakehell
> Ishmael by Daniel Webb
Does it dissapoint or excite you that there's a sequel?
And I have a follow up question:
Did what was said in the book, have a unique ring of truth for you?
> Voice Of The Whirlwind by Walter Jon Williams (Bruce Sterling ?)
DefinitelyWJW.
JAn
--
"If you love someone, you don't want them to suffer.
You want to take their sufferings on yourself.
If even I feel this way,
Why doesn't God?"
-T.S. Elliot
Trayce
<rake...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
"If you love someone, you don't want them to suffer.
You want to take their sufferings on yourself.
If even I feel this way,
Why doesn't God?"
-T.S. Elliot
Woah - nice quote :)
Trayce (Mr Eliot rocks)
jay
>What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
>
1. '1984' - George Orwell
2. 'Praise' - Andrew McGahan
3. 'November 1975' - Paul Kelly (not the football player or the singer)
4. 'Goodbye, Jerusalem' - Bob Ellis
5. 'Beer' - Michael Jackson
Wow - only two and a half of these are fiction.
jay
rakehell
> * One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
> * Perfume by Patrick Suskind.
> * Magician's Law + Demon's Law by Michael Scott
> * Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe
> * Neuromancer by William Gibson.
> * Gargantua and Pantagruel by Francoise Rabalais.
> * The Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay
> * Ambient by Jack Womack
> * The Passion by Jeanette Winterson
> * The Earthsea Trilogy by Ursula Le Guin
> * Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky
This is a nice list Sandro, but it would be made better by the addition of
small descriptions/reasons as to why you liked it. Just something like:
"I like anything and everything connected with Napoleon and therefore found
"The Passion" to better than most books. And yet I hated it because Jeanette
Winterson was only 27 when she wrote it."
JAn
--
Spyinthesky
"n4cat" <n4...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3b66342e$0$8...@echo-01.iinet.net.au...
> What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
>
Behold my crap taste in books (It goes with my crap taste in everything
else)
Black Beauty-Anna Sewell
This book was my fave when I was little, and I always howled when poor
Ginger died :( They had a movie of it on TV a couple of years ago and I was
a blubbering wreck. Why are animal stories always sad?
The Scold's Bridle-Minette Walters
I love trashy detective fiction. This one actually isn't so trashy, it's
quite complex and even entwines Shakespeare (Which I am stupidly doing this
semester) into the story. Is probably one of those books you should read
more than once. This is my favourite of her books, unfortunately the last
couple have been a bit crap.
Berlin Noir-Philip Kerr
This is actually three books in the one volume. It's set in Berlin
(Obviously) during and after the second world war. I love love love war
movies and books and this one is the best I've read-it's soo detailed, and
the protagonist is such a little smart arse :)
The Robber Bride-Margaret Attwood
Xenia was *SUCH* a bitch!
The Wind in the Willows
Yet another kids book that I howl in.
--
spy
"I can't sing but I've got soul"
U2
julian
> "Catch 22" - Joseph Heller
I really liked this too. Close to being in my top 5.
> The Neuromancer Trilogy - William Gibson (I figure it's only a matter of
hmmm. not a bad author. very popular...
I've read the trilogy though I never really got into it.
> "Slaughterhouse 5" - Kurt Vonnegut (sp?)
correct spelling.
I like all his books (though they tend to be a bit samey, you could almost
count them as one book!!
I would chose breakfast of champions, that one probably affected me the
most. I find self referrential narration is really effective when its done
well. Theres always something I like in every KV book I read (and I have
read almost all of them) Jailbird is amazing too, and I really like Player
Piano.
> "My Idea Of Fun" - Will Self
yeah. that is pretty good. will self is another pretty underrated author I
think.
julian
--
"The girls were angry about something and we were not, so they went off and
broke into News At Ten. Us, being boys went off and made Daleks in true Blue
Peter style. As these Daleks were so far removed from the original designs
they did not infringe any copyright laws."
julian
Now for my top 5. picked off the top of my head.... I couldnt pick the order
though.
Tom Robbins - jitterbug perfume.
The best opening for a book, ever. A crazy amazing story told by a fantastic
wordsmith.
Kurt Vonnegut - breakfast of champions. or maybe jailbird. or mother night.
KV is at his best when he writes about sad old men. When I grow up, I want
to be a sad old man too. I want to be able to walk into a room (slow and
shaky, but determined. with the help of a walking stick) full of happy
teenagers, then with a sad, yet brave and dignified air tell some story
about the tragedy I caused that destroyed my life and everyone I ever loved,
and have them all cry. If you have to get old, at least you should be able
to do that!
Leonard Cohen - beautiful losers.
aaargh!!! this book just disturbed me. I climbed right into it and couldnt
get out for ages. A friend read it once, and her discription "you put this
book down after 1/2 hour reading and you feel like you've been tripping" is
probably the simplest way to describe what the book does. No other book has
ever effected me as immediately or strongly as this one.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery - The Little Prince
Its completely constructed of metaphors, but when I was a little kid I liked
it because it was a good story. When I was older I came back to it, and all
of a sudden it was a very different book. Maybe it is a little dated, a lot
of what it tries to imply is almost painfully ovbious in places, but still
very very touching. The story makes me sad, but happy that it has made me
sad. It reminds me of what is important in life, things I don't ever want to
let myself forget.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn - cancer ward.
This one gets very heavy going at times (as russian literature tends to do)
but has the human story to carry it off. and it stuck in my head a long time
too. Just an excellent story about people, even through translation and a
very different culture. "what does a man live by?"
*LittleChinaGirl*
>What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
More than five. *shrugs*
-Wuthering Heights-
'whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same' always
makes me swoon. I *love* the character of Cathy.
-Lolita, Vladimir Nabokov-
Whenever I need an intoxicating-train-of-thought-prose fix.
-The Tempest, Hamlet, Richard III-
My favourite Shakespeares. The Tempest is a sentimental favourite
because it was my senior drama production.
-Along the Highway, Anton Chekov-
Another play, but the characters are sublime.
-Maestro, Peter Goldsworthy-
Immaculate novelist and a nice guy.
-Sophie's World, Jostein Gaarder-
Rich fiction/non-fiction hybrid to chomp on.
-Obernewtyn, Isobelle Carmody-
I first read this when I was twelve, and I ritualistically re-read it
every year.
-The Magic Faraway Tree, Enid Blyton-
Another childhood favourite. I've always wanted to try some of those
exploding biscuits.
-Harry Potter-
All of them. Shamelessly.
-Girl Goddess #9, Francesca Lia Block-
Gorgeous wanky self-indulgent prose.
-The Secret Garden-
The book that started an appreciation of the classics.
-Pride & Prejudice-
I liked it to begin with, but Colin Firth didn't hurt either. :)
There are doubtlessly more, but these are just off the top of my
(achy) head.
*LittleChinaGirl*
Greylock
>-Lolita, Vladimir Nabokov-
>Whenever I need an intoxicating-train-of-thought-prose fix.
Not read it, no intention of, but the idea of pedophillia squicks me.
>-The Magic Faraway Tree, Enid Blyton-
>Another childhood favourite. I've always wanted to try some of those
>exploding biscuits.
In starting my list, which I can't decide on, I also listen Blyton -
although t'was the Mountains of Mystery & the Circus of Adventure tied for
number one spot.
-----
H*ydn
"Ironically, the goth music seems to be evolving into
something I liked when playing C64 games." - ren
Baralier
> What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
Seeing as the '5' part seems to have gone out the window...
I was trying to decide between books which have made me rethink my viewpoint
on a particular topic or those which I reread again and again. Anyhoo here's
a combination...
The Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkien
Read this first at age 12. Usually reread it every couple of years. Read it
*before* you see the movie.
Tales of Beatrix Potter
These stories I found amazing as a child. I'm still surprised at the number
of people who've never read or had them read to them.
Magician - Raymond E Feist
IMNSHO a fantasy book second only to LotR. It was a refreshing change from
all the TSR crap novels a had read prior (and after) this.
Tempting Fate - Chelsea Quinn Yarbro
This book I managed to track down in a second hand bookshop in Alaska. It
was worth it.
Another Fine Myth - Robert Asprin
A delightful parody of the whole fantasy genre while managing to take the
joke into a further 6 books
The Saga of the Exiles - Julian May
Well this is technically 4 books (plus extras) but it's one story. An
amazing blend of SF and myth.
Faeries - Brian Froud and Alan Lee
One of my treasured possessions. I loved the artistic view of these two men
Mabinogion
This developed my interest in Celtic History
The Book of Conquests
Irish invasion myths - Cuchulain, Ossian, the Tuatha De Dannan.
There's others but these will do for now.
--
Baralier
--
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well.
www.velvetspyder.f2s.com
Coordinator :The Society of the Black Rose
Costumier & Reprobate
Greylock
>Magician - Raymond E Feist
>IMNSHO a fantasy book second only to LotR.
Oooh! Risky call!
Has been damaged by all the sequels, I feel.
>It was a refreshing change from
>all the TSR crap novels a had read prior (and after) this.
Funny you should mention that, I've just bought the new (real) Dragonlance
book (Dragons of a Fallen Star), and the Raistlin book: The Soulforge.
For olde times sake.
Should be interesting to see how they stack up against some cherished
memories.
Trayce
wrote:
>Antoine de Saint-Exupery - The Little Prince
Oh my goodness! I knew I had forgotten one of my Very Important Books
in my list, and this was it.
The Little Prince was given to me when I was 16 by a very special
person who I've since lost touch with (Bruce W, if youre out there,
let me know! *sniffle*) and it moved me greatly in its own simple way.
Its not just the story, its my physical copy of the book - it has some
special things written into the front cover by my friend :)
Now, if only I could get my hands on an original French version...
Trayce (not obsessed with french stuff.. honest)
Tim Hamilton
> Tim Hamilton <ti...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:3B664657...@bigpond.net.au...
>
> : "I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
> : poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are
> : apparently doing quite well for themselves." - Jerry Garcia
> :
>
> Jerry Garcia? One of my book 'o quotes attributes that to Emo Phillips...
Yeah ? Hmm, thanks, I think you're right, it sounds a lot more like Emo.
Tim
Tim Hamilton
> Now for my top 5. picked off the top of my head.... I couldnt pick the order
> though.
>
> Tom Robbins - jitterbug perfume.
> The best opening for a book, ever. A crazy amazing story told by a fantastic
> wordsmith.
Absolutely. A film-from-book I want to see done properly.
Tim
AngeLamia
(and yes you guessed it, not long reads... attention span blah blah)
5.Perfume -patrick Susskind (but i leant it and don't know where tis?)
4.The Mystical Beast-Alison Farthing (kid thing)
3.Story of the Eye-George Bataille (fun thing)
2.Delta of Venus - Anais Nin (romantic thing)
and my fave all time by far
1. little miss plump - Roger Hargreaves
can i list the childrens birthday cake book- womens weekly?
XXX Angel
Tim Hamilton
> Tim Hamilton wrote:
>
>
>>Ishmael by Daniel Webb
>
> Does it dissapoint or excite you that there's a sequel?
It intrigues me. I'm not willing to uphold or damn the sequel until I've
read it. I wouldn't mind if the same message/lessons were in it but told
from a different perspective, as opposed to covering new ground.
> And I have a follow up question:
>
> Did what was said in the book, have a unique ring of truth for you?
In places, definitely. I only barely got time to read it once, but I'm
angling to get my hands on my own copy. Since reading Ishmael, I think
I've spent a lot of time watching the news analyzing signs of "Taker"
culture. It's hard to avoid seeing it now. :)
>>Voice Of The Whirlwind by Walter Jon Williams (Bruce Sterling ?)
>>
>
> DefinitelyWJW.
Mmm, thought so.
Tim
![[Tyme]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUuYKIlHkrWCFCIiOm_gezV9lxGstc9785cIVjoKwhVouxb=s40-c)
[Tyme]
> Now for my top 5. picked off the top of my head.... I couldnt pick the order
> though.
>
> Tom Robbins - jitterbug perfume.
> The best opening for a book, ever. A crazy amazing story told by a fantastic
> wordsmith.
I'm currently debating if that's my favourite of his or not... It was
definately enjoyable...
> Antoine de Saint-Exupery - The Little Prince
It's excellent... I went to see the film at the Valhalla one year.
It's amusing as long as you look at it like it's something other than
The Little Prince.
--Tyme--
Trayce
Oh my god, he's alive ;P
>> Antoine de Saint-Exupery - The Little Prince
>
>It's excellent... I went to see the film at the Valhalla one year.
>It's amusing as long as you look at it like it's something other than
>The Little Prince.
>
>--Tyme--
Why do so many people dislike the book? Ive had a lot of people say
thigns like they found it simplistic or overly moralistic, and I never
saw that - I just saw a simple, naive sweetness ... I dunno, maybe I'm
just too sentimental over it for other reasons :)
Trayce (or just mental)
[Tyme]
The Book of Three - Lloyd Alexander [and all the ones that follow]
Nausea - Sartre
A Wild Sheep Chase - Haruki Murakami [and all of his work]
The Wasp Factory - Iain Banks [or Use of Weapons...]
...the fiths ones the killer....
...there's so many...
Where the Wild Things Are - Maurice Sendak [and all of his work other
than In The Midnight Kitchen... never got into that...]
Yertle the Turtle - Dr Suess
The Fall - Albert Camus
Ishmael - Daniel Quinn
The Manual - KLF
Asterix and etc.
The Dragon Circle - Stephen Krensky [I think... it was a childhood
favourite]
The Melancholy Death of Oyster Boy - Tim Burton
Anyhting at all by Edward Gorey
etc
etc
etc...
...fuck work, I wanna go home and read...
--Tyme--
NP: Mono Puff - Careless Santa.
Nicky
>On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:25:07 GMT, "julian" <euro...@paris.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Antoine de Saint-Exupery - The Little Prince
>
>Oh my goodness! I knew I had forgotten one of my Very Important Books
>in my list, and this was it.
>
>Now, if only I could get my hands on an original French version...
>
long ago
nicky
Sandro
"Spark" <sp...@DESPAMgothic.net.au> wrote:
>Greylock <Hyd...@hotmail.GOV.invalid> wrote in message
>news:3b76d208...@news.wn.com.au...
>:Last episode "Baralier" <bara...@NOSPAMihug.com.au> said:
>:>Magician - Raymond E Feist
>:>IMNSHO a fantasy book second only to LotR.
>:Oooh! Risky call!
>:Has been damaged by all the sequels, I feel.
>Disagree with both of your points here. I actually thought the
>Serpentwar Saga was better then the Magician Trilogy in a lot
>of respects, although the other inbetween stuff gnaws at my
>vitals.
>:>It was a refreshing change from all the TSR crap novels a had
>:>read prior (and after) this.
>:Funny you should mention that, I've just bought the new (real)
>:Dragonlance book (Dragons of a Fallen Star), and the Raistlin
>:book: The Soulforge.
>:For olde times sake.
Please tell (eventually) whether they're decent or not. With the
appropriate amount of spoiler space, of course.
>:Should be interesting to see how they stack up against some
>:cherished memories.
>The Weis & Hickman Dragonlance Legends nearly rated a mention
>in my own list, although the authors have consistently been
>writing crap for a few years now. Dragons of Summer Flame
>should never, ever have been written.
I resisted reading Summer Flame through fear of having my dear,
dear memories sullied by new substandard material. I loved the
six books (including the Twins trilogy) very, very much. So many
characters that I loved so dearly, most of all Raistlin (of
course). But Weis and Hickman's books started turning into the
equivalent of gruel when they'd been giving me gourmet delights
beforehand (that poxy Darksword crap, the Rose of the Wanderer),
so I decided to stop reading them. They became a parody of
themselves, and the fantasy equivalent of Stephen King, pumping
out drek utterly devoid of anything remotely enjoyable. Still,
I keep getting this nagging feeling whenever I'm in Minotaur to
pick it up, but I usually distract myself with other better books
or comics. Please tell me why Summer Flame shouldn't be read.
Sandro - booklover. That doesn't mean I stick the pages together.
--
"Death is my gift." - BtVS
Lev Lafayette
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, n4cat wrote:
> What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
Do you have _any_ idea how difficult this has been?
OK, I'm going to narrow it down to stories - real, mythic and fictional.
I'm going to give up entirely any attempt to justify why I have chosen
these and the various notes I've compiled about their character
development, themes, style, narrative and setting. It's just too much work
at the moment....
So here, in some sort of order, is a collection of books that I'll
shortlist for the top five.
unknown, 'Eros and Psyche'
Plato, 'The Trial and Death of Socrates'
Homer, 'The Odyssey'
Shelley, 'Frankenstein'
Burroughs, 'Cities of the Red Night'
Zelanzy, 'Lord of Light'
Lonnrot, 'The Kaleva'
Shakespeare, 'Midsummer Night's Dream'
Khayyam, 'The Rubiayat'
various, 'The Old and New Testament'
Acker, 'Blood and Guts in High School'
Nabrokov, 'Lolita'
Goethe, 'Faust'
Dante, 'Divine Comedy'
de Sade, 'Justine'
Confucius, 'Analects'
Tolkien, 'The Lord of the Rings'
Lev Lafayette.
l...@student.unimelb.edu.au http://www.student.unimelb.edu.au/~lev
David W.
> The Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkien
> Read this first at age 12. Usually reread it every couple of years. Read it
> *before* you see the movie.
I read it when I was 8. Thrilled me senseless, and I got
paid ten dollars for finishing it.
Re-read it last year, when I was sick. Bored me to tears.
Finishing it was like dragging a stone weight up Everest.
*shrug*
I'm still looking forward to the movies.
David W.
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
<sor...@enternet.com.au> wrote:
> Baralier wrote:
> > The Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkien
> > Read this first at age 12. Usually reread it every couple of years. Read it
> > *before* you see the movie.
>
> I read it when I was 8. Thrilled me senseless, and I got
> paid ten dollars for finishing it.
>
> Re-read it last year, when I was sick. Bored me to tears.
> Finishing it was like dragging a stone weight up Everest.
That's because it's linguistically fascinating but the story is getting
old by now and Tolkein was hardly fantastic on characterisation. The
portentious style of LotR was ghastly, too. Re-reading _The_Hobbit_, on
the other hand, is pleasurable indeed. Told as a _story_ rather than a
faux mediaeval tale, it is completely charming and totally unaffected.
Mr Q. Z. D., sure he's posted something like this before and been flamed
to ashes.
Morgan Jaffit
>
>correct spelling.
>I like all his books (though they tend to be a bit samey, you could almost
>count them as one book!!
>I would chose breakfast of champions, that one probably affected me the
>most. I find self referrential narration is really effective when its done
>well. Theres always something I like in every KV book I read (and I have
>read almost all of them) Jailbird is amazing too, and I really like Player
>Piano.
I actually find I prefer his later stuff - with Slapstick being my fav,
probably.
I somewhat agree on the "all one book" aspect, but only in the same way
that you could say that about Steven King... similar theme/style in all
books, but it's the details and execution I keep reading them for...
entrippy (yah boo)
Morgan Jaffit
>"julian" <euro...@paris.com> wrote in message news:<Tky97.6544$V5.1...@news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au>...
>> Now for my top 5. picked off the top of my head.... I couldnt pick the order
>> though.
>>
>> Tom Robbins - jitterbug perfume.
>> The best opening for a book, ever. A crazy amazing story told by a fantastic
>> wordsmith.
>
>I'm currently debating if that's my favourite of his or not... It was
>definately enjoyable...
I topsy turvied and ended up slumping in favour of Still Life With
Woodpecker.
And I still think Crow Road has the best opening line ever :)
entrippy (woosh!)
Neef
appeared in the Weekly World News headlines claiming :
>
>And I still think Crow Road has the best opening line ever :)
>
MMM...exploding grandmothers....
Neef (potty mouth!)
--
You know, maybe it was the syphilis talking, But some of
that actually made sense.
neef @ vurt . net
Morgan Jaffit
>What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
Todays top five.
Lord of Light - Zelazny
Tiger Tiger (or The Stars My Destination) - Bester
Player of Games - Banks
A Scanner Darkly - Phillip K. Dick
Spares - MMS
entrippy (tomorrows a different kettle)
Thorfinn
Mr Q. Z. Diablo <dia...@prometheus.humsoc.utas.edu.au> wrote:
> In article <3B6795CB...@enternet.com.au>, "David W."
> <sor...@enternet.com.au> wrote:
> > I read it when I was 8. Thrilled me senseless, and I got
> > paid ten dollars for finishing it.
> > Re-read it last year, when I was sick. Bored me to tears.
> > Finishing it was like dragging a stone weight up Everest.
> That's because it's linguistically fascinating but the story is getting
> old by now and Tolkein was hardly fantastic on characterisation. The
> portentious style of LotR was ghastly, too.
*nodnod* LoTR is *much* more fascinating because of the linguistics
and the worldbuilding, than for plot or character. Ditto
Silmarillion, etc... The world and history of Middle Earth is
fantastically detailed, and reading about it is fascinating (if you
can handle relatively dry epic history)...
> Re-reading _The_Hobbit_, on the other hand, is pleasurable indeed.
> Told as a _story_ rather than a faux mediaeval tale, it is
> completely charming and totally unaffected.
Well, yes. It was written specifically to be read aloud to children.
As such, it's a *brilliant* piece of work, and has a very very
different character to LoTR, and is a lot more re-readable.
> Mr Q. Z. D., sure he's posted something like this before and been flamed
> to ashes.
You were? Not by me. :) I agree with you.
Ook,
Thorf
--
<a href="http://tertius.net.au/~thorfinn">thor...@tertius.net.au</a>
"It's not a client. I wouldn't say 'penis' to a client."
-- Pe...@vurt.net
Lev Lafayette
On 1 Aug 2001, Morgan Jaffit wrote:
> In article <3b66342e$0$8...@echo-01.iinet.net.au>, n4cat wrote:
> >What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
>
> Todays top five.
>
> Lord of Light - Zelazny
An excellent book. Better than all the Buddhist and Hindu tales put
together in my opinion. What did you think of 'Creatures of Light and
Darkness'?
David Carson
>>The Neuromancer Trilogy - William Gibson (I figure it's only a matter of
>
> hmmm. not a bad author. very popular...
> I've read the trilogy though I never really got into it.
While I'm pissing off the universe by dissing Buffy, I might as well add to
my unpopularity by saying: William Gibson is crap. Reading William Gibson
while there is a Neal Stephenson in the world is like drinking Budweiser
when there is beer in the world. It's like eating at McDonalds when there
is steak in the world. It's like listening to VNV Nation when there is
music in the world. It's like..
[the lynch mob finally breaks through the door]
Cheers,
David...
LittleChinaGirl
>Its completely constructed of metaphors, but when I was a little kid I liked
>it because it was a good story. When I was older I came back to it, and all
>of a sudden it was a very different book. Maybe it is a little dated, a lot
>of what it tries to imply is almost painfully ovbious in places, but still
>very very touching. The story makes me sad, but happy that it has made me
>sad. It reminds me of what is important in life, things I don't ever want to
>let myself forget.
Yes! Yes! Le Petit Prince was one of my favourites ever since I studied it in
French. It's the perfect book to read when you're too caught up with the frenzy
of this world, and need some reminding of what really matters. Still makes me
cry every time.
*LittleChinaGirl*
/~*Lead me not into temptation, I can find the way myself*~/
Trayce
wrote:
yay! I'm glad I'm not the only one...
Trayce (of all the books people have mentioned, notice two that get
repeated? The Little Prince, and Perfume. Interesting...)
*LittleChinaGirl*
(Greylock) wrote:
>In starting my list, which I can't decide on, I also listen Blyton -
>although t'was the Mountains of Mystery & the Circus of Adventure tied for
>number one spot.
I loved the circus ones too...were the first ones I read, I think. I
can't even remember the character names now, but I recall really
wishing I could be the girl who rode zebras, and the little boy who
tried to tame the big cats....*sigh*
*LittleChinaGirl*
*LittleChinaGirl*
wrote:
>2.Delta of Venus - Anais Nin (romantic thing)
Soft porn! Soft porn!
*LittleChinaGirl*
(mature)
julian
> Where the Wild Things Are - Maurice Sendak [and all of his work other
> than In The Midnight Kitchen... never got into that...]
>
I'm at my parents house.
> The Manual - KLF
>
Just discovered this one on the net a few months ago.... printed it and
bound it.
I'm always picking it up to have another bit of a read. I think I've read it
in bits about 5 times over since I actually finished it.
julian
--
"The girls were angry about something and we were not, so they went off and
broke into News At Ten. Us, being boys went off and made Daleks in true Blue
Peter style. As these Daleks were so far removed from the original designs
they did not infringe any copyright laws."
Sandro
>>>The Neuromancer Trilogy - William Gibson (I figure it's only
>>>a matter of
>>hmmm. not a bad author. very popular...
>>I've read the trilogy though I never really got into it.
>While I'm pissing off the universe by dissing Buffy, I might as
>well add to my unpopularity by saying: William Gibson is crap.
>Reading William Gibson while there is a Neal Stephenson in the
>world is like drinking Budweiser when there is beer in the
>world.
Ah, but without Gibson, you wouldn't have had Stephenson, not
in the form that he's in :) And whilst The Diamond Age is far
superior to anything Gibson's ever written, with Neuromancer it
was the "shock of the new", so to speak.
Even Stephenson has his issues as a novelist ie, does he really
know how to finish any of his books? :) I mean, they all end
in such a way that you're waiting for a page that says "to be
continued" only to realise that the show's over, move along
people, nothing to see here. Maybe the corollary is true, it
feels like that because the story's so good, you don't want it
to end :) He does have issues though (ie pacing, character
development in Snow Crash + Zodiac, massive reams of exposition
through mouthpiece characters) but I'd say he's the best of the
post cyberpunk writers that I've read.
>It's like eating at McDonalds when there is steak in the world.
>It's like listening to VNV Nation when there is
>music in the world. It's like..
>[the lynch mob finally breaks through the door]
Burn the Heretic, burn him!!!!!
Sandro
--
Carthage Must Be Destroyed - Cato the Elder
Neef
appeared in the Weekly World News headlines claiming :
>
>Trayce (of all the books people have mentioned, notice two that get
>repeated? The Little Prince, and Perfume. Interesting...)
And Neuromancer.
Neef (_)
[Tyme]
> In article <c91aa636.01073...@posting.google.com>, [Tyme] wrote:
> >"julian" <euro...@paris.com> wrote in message news:<Tky97.6544$V5.1...@news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au>...
> >> Now for my top 5. picked off the top of my head.... I couldnt pick the order
> >> though.
> >>
> >> Tom Robbins - jitterbug perfume.
> >> The best opening for a book, ever. A crazy amazing story told by a fantastic
> >> wordsmith.
> >
> >I'm currently debating if that's my favourite of his or not... It was
> >definately enjoyable...
>
> I topsy turvied and ended up slumping in favour of Still Life With
> Woodpecker.
Really? Both Still Life and Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas are cool...
but they get a little too nice and neat for my liking... you know?
...although Still Life will always remain great for the "Wow! I'm
pissing stars!" line =] [it was something like that]
> And I still think Crow Road has the best opening line ever :)
I'll go home and check it out.... It's probably the one of his I like
least.
> entrippy (woosh!)
Back to work you!!! I get here early in the morning and freeze my
butt off in order to post here!
=P
--Tyme--
NP: Regurgitator - Head 1 Psycho
[Tyme]
> > Where the Wild Things Are - Maurice Sendak [and all of his work other
> > than In The Midnight Kitchen... never got into that...]
> >
> I used to love that too when I was young. have to try and find it next time
> I'm at my parents house.
>
> > The Manual - KLF
> >
> Just discovered this one on the net a few months ago.... printed it and
> bound it.
> I'm always picking it up to have another bit of a read. I think I've read it
> in bits about 5 times over since I actually finished it.
>
>
> julian
Glad you actually found it after the Squarepusher gig where I babbled
at you about it... =]
Completely off topic [for this thread] -> Did you like the
Squarepusher gig?
--Tyme--
[Tyme]
Apparently.
...I wouldn't believe it tho...
> >> Antoine de Saint-Exupery - The Little Prince
> >
> >It's excellent... I went to see the film at the Valhalla one year.
> >It's amusing as long as you look at it like it's something other than
> >The Little Prince.
> >
> >--Tyme--
>
> Why do so many people dislike the book?
I didn't realise they did.
> Ive had a lot of people say
> thigns like they found it simplistic or overly moralistic, and I never
> saw that - I just saw a simple, naive sweetness ... I dunno, maybe I'm
> just too sentimental over it for other reasons :)
I just like it... well, a little more than "just" =]
I forgot to add "Understanding Comics - Scott McCloud" to my list.
It's fantastic and definately a book I can read again and again and
never get sick of.
--Tyme--
NP: Dissecting Table - Aestethics of Shiver
n4cat
> What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
OK so it's my turn and in no particular order.
shogun - James Clavel
A book I have reread many times. Started my love of many things
Japanese.
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - I forgot
I don't love this book nor have I read it again since the first time.
I found it disturbing but it has influenced my life and made me want to
study literature and ancient Greece.
Sherlock Holmes - A Conan Doyle
Made me want to smoke a pipe and wear dear-stalker hats.
Magician - R E Feist
Just a damn good read.
The Colour of Magic - Terry Pratchet
Again a discovery of a witty writer who made me appreciate life by
looking at it from the point of view that everything is funny if you look at
it the right way.
and because I can't stop at 5 either, almost anything by David Gemmel.
--
n4cat
"in vino veritas" Doc Holliday, Tombstone
Tim Hamilton
> julian wrote:
>
>>> The Neuromancer Trilogy - William Gibson (I figure it's only a matter of
>>
>>
>> hmmm. not a bad author. very popular...
>> I've read the trilogy though I never really got into it.
>
>
> While I'm pissing off the universe by dissing Buffy, I might as well add
> to my unpopularity by saying: William Gibson is crap. Reading William
> Gibson while there is a Neal Stephenson in the world is like drinking
> Budweiser when there is beer in the world.
How dare you give us your stinkingly incorrect opinion about Budweiser
!! I've got a good mind to come over there.. *yadadyadayada* :)
Tim (bet you didn't expect that one huh ?)
Spark
Sandro <cein...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3b680fa9$1...@nexus.comcen.com.au...
: >While I'm pissing off the universe by dissing Buffy, I might as
: >well add to my unpopularity by saying: William Gibson is crap.
: >Reading William Gibson while there is a Neal Stephenson in the
: >world is like drinking Budweiser when there is beer in the
: >world.
:
: Ah, but without Gibson, you wouldn't have had Stephenson, not
: in the form that he's in :) And whilst The Diamond Age is far
: superior to anything Gibson's ever written, with Neuromancer it
: was the "shock of the new", so to speak.
Naturally, I disagree. Neuromancer's beauty is not in it's 'cyberpunk'
value, but in the language of pop culture, the double punch of low class and
high tech, and the concepts that were aired and executed. Sure, 'Diamond
Age' is a great book, but the opening sucks and the ending is like a manga
comic as drawn by a hippy commune. Don't get me wrong, I really loved it,
and I quite liked Zodiac, but Snowcrash I despise with a passion, and it
doesn't compare to stuff like Neuromancer or Idoru. Having said that, 'All
Tomorrow's Parties' really sucks big cocks.
: Even Stephenson has his issues as a novelist ie, does he really
: know how to finish any of his books? :) I mean, they all end
: in such a way that you're waiting for a page that says "to be
: continued" only to realise that the show's over, move along
: people, nothing to see here. Maybe the corollary is true, it
: feels like that because the story's so good, you don't want it
: to end :) He does have issues though (ie pacing, character
: development in Snow Crash + Zodiac, massive reams of exposition
: through mouthpiece characters) but I'd say he's the best of the
: post cyberpunk writers that I've read.
What is Cyberpunk? So to speak. I think I have to go by individual books -
Greg Bear writes either fantastic gems of decent science extrapolation, or
horrible, horrible pulp. Gregory Benford is probably more hard sf then
cyberpunk, and I do like my Pat Cadigan. Certainly these have done as well
or better then Stephenson .
: >It's like eating at McDonalds when there is steak in the world.
: >It's like listening to VNV Nation when there is
: >music in the world. It's like..
:
: >[the lynch mob finally breaks through the door]
:
: Burn the Heretic, burn him!!!!!
That's Apoptygma Beserk ....
L.
--
http://www.gothic.net.au/~spark
"How well do you think Kate Bush would go down?"
- Miss Alex wondering what song to play next
solitaire
<sp...@DESPAMgothic.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>Naturally, I disagree. Neuromancer's beauty is not in it's 'cyberpunk'
>value, but in the language of pop culture, the double punch of low class and
>high tech, and the concepts that were aired and executed. Sure, 'Diamond
>Age' is a great book, but the opening sucks and the ending is like a manga
>comic as drawn by a hippy commune. Don't get me wrong, I really loved it,
>and I quite liked Zodiac, but Snowcrash I despise with a passion, and it
>doesn't compare to stuff like Neuromancer or Idoru. Having said that, 'All
>Tomorrow's Parties' really sucks big cocks.
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=aus.culture.gothic+entropy+tomorrows+parties
&hl=en&safe=off&rnum=1&selm=X4L84.2046%24oJ5.4517%40newsfeeds.bigpond.com
(you'll need to rejoin that between parties and &hl)
*grin*
Only because I remember disagreeing violently with your opinion of it
at the time :)
So as an extension of this poll, we all have "temporary favourites"
that we like a great deal while we're reading them, but don't last the
distance.
What makes a favourite last? What qualities in a book make you keep
coming back?
sol.
.
--
"Sock matching"? Somehow, the image that comes to my mind is Skudly
standing watching a boysock and another boysock, saying "Don't you like
each other? Hmm? Who wants a beating? Having a date yet, are you?"
-- Ingvar Mattsson <ing...@bofh.se> in ASR
Neef
>
>What is Cyberpunk? So to speak. I think I have to go by individual books -
>Greg Bear writes either fantastic gems of decent science extrapolation, or
>horrible, horrible pulp. Gregory Benford is probably more hard sf then
>cyberpunk, and I do like my Pat Cadigan. Certainly these have done as well
>or better then Stephenson .
>
Ok.
Headcrash: Bruce Bethke.
This is the man that coined the term Cyberpunk (from memory) He's
written one book, and one book only, Headcrash is it, and after all
these years, is *still* a gem :)
Pat Cadigan yay verily rocks, Unfortunately Im going to have qualify
that and say that *early* Pat Caddigan Rocks.
Theres a story in Mirror Shades, There's Mindplayers and One of my all
time favourites "Synners" (thank you to Justin from Slow Glass for
finding me a copy when I couldnt)
The Later Pat Caddigan stuff leaves me cold and with a desire to fall
asleep.
Neef (woohoo)
Neef
in the Weekly World News headlines claiming :
>What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
>
Its taken me long enough to get around to answering this one.
5 Books, Tough choice all things considered.
Top 5 books that I not only remember enjoying, but had the most effect
and have stayed with me from the first time I read them.
Excuse me if I use at least one series :)
In no particular order:
Vurt: Jeff Noon
Spares: MMS (Plus 'The man who drew cats')
Helix and the Sword : John C. McLoughlin(?) (once again thanks to
Justin who found it for me when no one else could)
Synners: Pat Cadigan
Gap series: Stephen Donaldsen.
Theres more, Much more, you asked for a top 5 though.
>On another but similar note I was thinking of posting a challenge for ppl to
>write a short story or play with all the dialogue being song lyrics from
>nominated songs. Any one interested? May be we could put the best ones on
>the acg short story site? Hobbes any idea?
Do you mean and entire story using lyrics, or a story based on one or
two lines from a song?
Neef (blah)
n4cat
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:33:09 +0800, "n4cat" <n4...@yahoo.com> appeared
> in the Weekly World News headlines claiming :
>
>
> >On another but similar note I was thinking of posting a challenge for ppl
to
> >write a short story or play with all the dialogue being song lyrics from
> >nominated songs. Any one interested? May be we could put the best ones
on
> >the acg short story site? Hobbes any idea?
>
> Do you mean and entire story using lyrics, or a story based on one or
> two lines from a song?
All the dialogue should be song lyrics.
I wanted to post a list of songs from which the lyrics must come otherwise
it's too easy. I am though not cluey enough to know which songs would be
generally well known.
My only request for the person that does post a list is that it must include
at least one song from the Bee Gees and one from Jethro Tull maybe thick as
a brick. *shrugs*
--
n4cat
"in vino veritas" Doc Holliday, Tombstone
>
Morgan Jaffit
Here here.
And while we're at it, can we lynch Tolkien?
When people ask me about my reading preferences, I generally answer "oh you
know, bit of fantasy, bit of cyberpunk" - which results in a conversation
about JRR and Gibbo.
Which then results in me explaining that you have to do a bit more than be
first to achieve widespread recognition in a genre to gain my appreciation.
You actually have to be able to write, for starters. Then you could come
up with an interesting set of characters and motivations.
I fucken' hate them both - and I'm currently battling my way through the
rings again for the first time in bloody ever, just to a) get myself
familiar for the movie and b) remind myself why I hate them.
I saw the trailer for LOTR the other day. In 28 seconds it summarises the
whole of the first book - in a damn sight more compelling a fashion that
the novel. I cannae wait for the film...
entrippy (whoo whaa)
Morgan Jaffit
>
>Ah, but without Gibson, you wouldn't have had Stephenson, not
>in the form that he's in :) And whilst The Diamond Age is far
>superior to anything Gibson's ever written, with Neuromancer it
>was the "shock of the new", so to speak.
Shock of the new my fucking ass.
Sure, he put a few elements together that hadn't been previously combined
in that precice fashion, and sure, he definined a specific vision of
"c-punk" that's been slavishly adhered to by any number of writers since.
But there's not an original idea in the whole of Neuromancer - and Tiger
Tiger is a far, far, better c-punk novel in every way.
not to mention that it was written in the '50s. Gibson was about spot on
when it came to remixing old favourites for a new, punk edged audience, but
he's no "shock of the new"
entrippy (fight!)
Neef
appeared in the Weekly World News headlines claiming :
>Shock of the new my fucking ass.
>
>Sure, he put a few elements together that hadn't been previously combined
>in that precice fashion, and sure, he definined a specific vision of
>"c-punk" that's been slavishly adhered to by any number of writers since.
>
>But there's not an original idea in the whole of Neuromancer - and Tiger
>Tiger is a far, far, better c-punk novel in every way.
Then there's PK Dick as well.
A Scanner Darkly for example is almost a prime example of cyberpunk.
>
>not to mention that it was written in the '50s. Gibson was about spot on
>when it came to remixing old favourites for a new, punk edged audience, but
>he's no "shock of the new"
As has been mentioned, concept wise no.
Style yes.
Just as MMS or Jeff Noon, hooks me on a certain distinctive style, so
does Gibson.
I find his writing style, more than anything else about his books, is
what attracts me.
I can read something with great characterisation, and fantastic plot,
but it means fuck all if the words cant create a picture in my head to
link them.
Hell, Im a descriptive person, I love imagry, gibson paints a fine
picture from time to time.
neef (hosaka)
Spark
solitaire <soli...@lioness.tygger.net> wrote in message
news:slrn9mhgq5.l...@buzzword.cc.monash.edu.au...
: Oh really?
:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=aus.culture.gothic+entropy+tomorrows+parti
es
: &hl=en&safe=off&rnum=1&selm=X4L84.2046%24oJ5.4517%40newsfeeds.bigpond.com
:
: (you'll need to rejoin that between parties and &hl)
Excellent memory. Much embarrasment on my part, but in truth, I was only
halfway through it at that point.
:
: *grin*
: Only because I remember disagreeing violently with your opinion of it
: at the time :)
:
: So as an extension of this poll, we all have "temporary favourites"
: that we like a great deal while we're reading them, but don't last the
: distance.
:
: What makes a favourite last? What qualities in a book make you keep
: coming back?
Humour. I still reread Hitchhikers every once in a while. That and sci fi
concepts above my head. Read. Learn. Return.
Greylock
>> The Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkien
>Re-read it last year, when I was sick. Bored me to tears.
>Finishing it was like dragging a stone weight up Everest.
That's how I felt the first time.
You should read the re-written version: Sword of Shannara. :P
-----
H*ydn
"Ironically, the goth music seems to be evolving into
something I liked when playing C64 games." - ren
Greylock
>>:Funny you should mention that, I've just bought the new (real)
>>:Dragonlance book (Dragons of a Fallen Sun), and the Raistlin
>>:book: The Soulforge.
>>:For olde times sake.
>Please tell (eventually) whether they're decent or not. With the
>appropriate amount of spoiler space, of course.
Shouldn't need spoiler space, as I doubt I'd be posting any spoilers.
I'm only four chapters into 'The Soulforge', and I'm still trying to
reclaim my interest in Raist and Caramon. It's quite pedestrian so far.
Found out Weis has written a sequel too, with her husband. I fear.
>>The Weis & Hickman Dragonlance Legends nearly rated a mention
>>in my own list, although the authors have consistently been
>>writing crap for a few years now. Dragons of Summer Flame
>>should never, ever have been written.
>I resisted reading Summer Flame through fear of having my dear,
>dear memories sullied by new substandard material.
Pretty much what happened, as I recall. It's been a few years since I did
read it (five, to be exact), but I do seem to recall it smacked of
arbitrary plotting (the book was more or less designed to fit into the
Dragonlance game relaunch), and inconsistencies.
> I loved the six books (including the Twins trilogy) very, very much.
Did you read 'The Second Generation'?
Collects the W&H short stories from the 'Tales' which are cute, and worth
reading, and a novella introducing the children of the Heroes of the Lance,
which I have not read.
>So many characters that I loved so dearly, most of all Raistlin (of
>course). But Weis and Hickman's books started turning into the
>equivalent of gruel when they'd been giving me gourmet delights
>beforehand (that poxy Darksword crap, the Rose of the Wanderer),
>so I decided to stop reading them.
Actually, I quite enjoyed the Darksword series, though I read them fairly
young, and only once. I have meant to re-read it, but never have bothered.
I don't recall much about the 'Rose' series - something about Gods being
20D and goldfish in a bowl.
>They became a parody of themselves, and the fantasy
>equivalent of Stephen King,
True, readable, occasionally using interesting concepts - but never
terribly well.
Of course, W&H are burdened by their gaming roots - it's clear in pretty
much all the fantasy stuff they've done. I've not touched their SF stuff.
However, give them their due, in game related fiction, they're pretty much
without peer.
>Please tell me why Summer Flame shouldn't be read.
It's just ... unnecessary, basically. As above, "rushed and ill-concieved",
and less well-crafted.
Like .... Tolkien's "New Shadow".
>Sandro - booklover. That doesn't mean I stick the pages together.
No, that's for the Booktastic Bookmobile.
Baralier
> Last episode "Sandro" <cein...@excite.com> said:
> >So many characters that I loved so dearly, most of all Raistlin (of
> >course). But Weis and Hickman's books started turning into the
> >equivalent of gruel when they'd been giving me gourmet delights
> >beforehand (that poxy Darksword crap, the Rose of the Wanderer),
> >so I decided to stop reading them.
>
> Actually, I quite enjoyed the Darksword series, though I read them fairly
> young, and only once. I have meant to re-read it, but never have bothered.
Pretty much the same here. Though I think the *fourth* book (as a psuedo
gaming book) was pretty much one of the worst marketing cobblations I've
seen.
I think I gave up on the Dragonlance books (and most of the Forgotten Realms
stuff as well) around the time Heroes II came out. My partner at the time
continued buying them but I think it was more out of wanting to have the
complete set rather than an actual liking for them
> >They became a parody of themselves, and the fantasy
> >equivalent of Stephen King,
Or the Piers Anthony? Oh, wait, he is fantasy.
> True, readable, occasionally using interesting concepts - but never
> terribly well.
I remember reading Stephen King's 'Eyes of the Dragon' and was very
disapointed. Decided that he should definately stay away from fantasy. Even
the horror stuff in recent years has been rather avaerage.
> Of course, W&H are burdened by their gaming roots - it's clear in pretty
> much all the fantasy stuff they've done. I've not touched their SF stuff.
>
> However, give them their due, in game related fiction, they're pretty much
> without peer.
Definitely agree with you on that one.
Baralier
--
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well.
www.velvetspyder.f2s.com
Coordinator :The Society of the Black Rose
Costumier & Reprobate
Baralier
> Last episode "David W." <sor...@enternet.com.au> said:
> >> The Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkien
> >Re-read it last year, when I was sick. Bored me to tears.
> >Finishing it was like dragging a stone weight up Everest.
>
> That's how I felt the first time.
That just *proves* you have no taste.
> You should read the re-written version: Sword of Shannara. :P
Thought that myself at the time. Though I recently read Brooks' 'Running
with the Demon' and 'Knight of the Word' and was impressed at how much more
mature both the ideas and the style was.
He's definitely improved from the fantasy hack he was
Neef
appeared in the Weekly World News headlines claiming :
>
>"Rock On". Great story, great compilation. Was thinking of it when wondering
>which sc fi author could be defined as cyberpunk ..
>
I was thinking of that this morning when I was comming to work.
The problem is that how do you define cyberpunk to begin with?
Neef (little boxes!)
julian
[Tyme] said:
<<KLF the manual:>>
> Glad you actually found it after the Squarepusher gig where I babbled
> at you about it... =]
>
??? I don't remember you talking about that to me there, and I'd already
read it by then.....
> Completely off topic [for this thread] -> Did you like the
> Squarepusher gig?
>
not really. I expected a lot more from him, given his album releases.
Really, there were about 3 ideas repeated over and over and over.... IMO a
huge wank. and boring as all hell to watch..... I already got into a pretty
big discussion about this on one of the music mailinglists I'm subscribed
to..... But apparently sets just like the one he did are "in" this year with
the warp crowd. Apparently autechre have been touring with an hour of sub
bass and white noise. hmmm..... oh well. maybe something I like will be in
fashion with them all next year.
Sandro
"Spark" <sp...@DESPAMgothic.net.au> wrote:
>Sandro <cein...@excite.com> wrote in message
>news:3b680fa9$1...@nexus.comcen.com.au...
>:>While I'm pissing off the universe by dissing Buffy, I might
>:>as well add to my unpopularity by saying: William Gibson is
>:>crap. Reading William Gibson while there is a Neal Stephenson
>:>in the world is like drinking Budweiser when there is beer in
>:>the world.
>:Ah, but without Gibson, you wouldn't have had Stephenson, not
>:in the form that he's in :) And whilst The Diamond Age is far
>:superior to anything Gibson's ever written, with Neuromancer it
>:was the "shock of the new", so to speak.
>Naturally, I disagree. Neuromancer's beauty is not in
>it's 'cyberpunk' value, but in the language of pop culture, the
>double punch of low class and high tech, and the concepts that
>were aired and executed.
Everything you say after "value" isn't what I believe is in the
novel in *spite* of the title "cyberpunk", it's what I consider
"cyberpunk" to be!!
>Sure, 'Diamond Age' is a great book, but the opening sucks and
>the ending is like a manga comic as drawn by a hippy commune.
Hmm, Hackworth stays underwater with the Drummers drumming and
having gangbangs for ten years. Ten years? I hate it when authors
arbitrarily take their own characters out of the picture because
they can't juggle enough storylines :)
>Don't get me wrong, I really loved it, and I quite liked
>Zodiac, but Snowcrash I despise with a passion, and it
>doesn't compare to stuff like Neuromancer or Idoru. Having said
>that, 'All Tomorrow's Parties' really sucks big cocks.
I don't think it sucked big cocks. If it sucked big cocks that
would have been something of an achievement at least. Sucking
big cocks is hard, it requires a certain amount of skill and
abiltity, something that Gibbo's last book lacked. Though he did
bring back his character based on Chopper!!
>:Even Stephenson has his issues as a novelist ie, does he really
>:know how to finish any of his books? :) I mean, they all end
>:in such a way that you're waiting for a page that says "to be
>:continued" only to realise that the show's over, move along
>:people, nothing to see here. Maybe the corollary is true, it
>:feels like that because the story's so good, you don't want it
>:to end :) He does have issues though (ie pacing, character
>:development in Snow Crash + Zodiac, massive reams of exposition
>:through mouthpiece characters) but I'd say he's the best of the
>:post cyberpunk writers that I've read.
>What is Cyberpunk? So to speak.
You might as well try to define what "alternative" is, or better
yet, what "goth" music is :) My take on it is writings mostly
set in the near future starting just after the Reagan era. Post
apocalyptic themes are replaced with near-future scenarios where
the States has usually fallen over or collapsed. Technology and
more specifically information technologies, biotechnologies,
virtual visioning systems all start integrating. Neocorporatism
and members of corporations being the "villains" rather than
other governments or their operatives.
Though it still has similar themes to hard SF I think it's of
its "time", as in it was the mid to late 80's to mid 90's
zeitgeist. As a term or concept I think it's become meaningless
(if it ever meant anything genuine in the first place). I
remember a definition of cyberpunk as "anything that gave geek
hackers a hardon and made them want to wear shades and a leather
jacket whilst they were programming." I'm paraphrasing Wired
there, I think, which is the most dubious of sources, admittedly.
>I think I have to go by individual books - Greg Bear writes
>either fantastic gems of decent science extrapolation, or
>horrible, horrible pulp. Gregory Benford is probably more hard
>sf then cyberpunk, and I do like my Pat Cadigan. Certainly
>these have done as well or better then Stephenson .
With Bear I have to say I liked his fantasy books The Infinity
Concerto and The Serpent Mage far better than any of his other
stuff (Queen of Angels, Blood Music, Eon).
>:>It's like eating at McDonalds when there is steak in the
>:>world. It's like listening to VNV Nation when there is
>:>music in the world. It's like..
>:>[the lynch mob finally breaks through the door]
>:Burn the Heretic, burn him!!!!!
>That's Apoptygma Beserk ....
Sandro - Jack Womack, he's my favourite post-cyberpunk writer he
is.
n4cat
"n4cat" wrote
> "n4cat" wrote
> > What are your personal top 5 books of all time?
>
> OK so it's my turn and in no particular order.
And the ones I forgot ;)
Dune (but not the rest) - Frank Herbert
The Stainless Steel Rat - Harry Harrison
and Zen and the art of--- was written by Robert M Pirseg (sp?)
Sandro
mor...@extro.vurt.net (Morgan Jaffit) wrote:
>In article <3b680fa9$1...@nexus.comcen.com.au>, Sandro wrote:
>>Ah, but without Gibson, you wouldn't have had Stephenson, not
>>in the form that he's in :) And whilst The Diamond Age is far
>>superior to anything Gibson's ever written, with Neuromancer it
>>was the "shock of the new", so to speak.
>Shock of the new my fucking ass.
Fucking your "ass" is shocking and new?
>Sure, he put a few elements together that hadn't been
>previously combined in that precise fashion, and sure, he
>definined a specific vision of "c-punk" that's been slavishly
>adhered to by any number of writers since.
Which to a sixteen year old back in 1988 was amazingly new.
>But there's not an original idea in the whole of Neuromancer -
>and Tiger Tiger is a far, far, better c-punk novel in every
>way.
>not to mention that it was written in the '50s. Gibson was
>about spot on when it came to remixing old favourites for a
>new, punk edged audience, but he's no "shock of the new"
Not now, but consider the fact that the book was written in 1984,
and that practically everything after it has being paying
obsequious homage to him ever since.
>entrippy (fight!)
Nup, I'm a fucker not a fighter
Sandro - foozle
Sandro
Neef <ne...@sloth.vurt.net> wrote:
>On 2 Aug 2001 05:35:37 GMT, mor...@extro.vurt.net (Morgan
>Jaffit) appeared in the Weekly World News headlines claiming:
>>Shock of the new my fucking ass.
>>Sure, he put a few elements together that hadn't been
>>previously combined in that precice fashion, and sure, he
>>definined a specific vision of "c-punk" that's been slavishly
>>adhered to by any number of writers since.
>>But there's not an original idea in the whole of Neuromancer -
>>and Tiger Tiger is a far, far, better c-punk novel in every
>>way.
>Then there's PK Dick as well.
>A Scanner Darkly for example is almost a prime example of
>cyberpunk.
Really? I'm not sure how it fits into the "genre". I just thought
it was a story about drug addiction and the drug scene Dick was
part of, with a few bright shiny knobs on it to hide the fact
that it was about the 70's.
>>not to mention that it was written in the '50s. Gibson was
>>about spot on when it came to remixing old favourites for a
>>new, punk edged audience, but he's no "shock of the new"
>As has been mentioned, concept wise no.
>Style yes.
Bingo, give the man a prize.
>Just as MMS or Jeff Noon, hooks me on a certain distinctive
>style, so does Gibson.
>I find his writing style, more than anything else about his
>books, is what attracts me.
I like the fact that his "heroes" are usually losers or children
or both.
>I can read something with great characterisation, and fantastic
>plot, but it means fuck all if the words cant create a picture
>in my head to link them.
>Hell, Im a descriptive person, I love imagery, gibson paints a
>fine picture from time to time.
When reading Gibson's stuff I always used to think how perfect
they would be as films. But with the abortion that was Johnny
Mnemonic and the alleged travesty that is Abel Ferrara's New
Rose Hotel, there doesn't seem to be much hope for it to be done
properly. I think he's both a literate and entertaining writer,
and I still find him far more engaging these days than, say,
Bruce Sterling.
Neef
in the Weekly World News headlines claiming :
>
>Really? I'm not sure how it fits into the "genre". I just thought
>it was a story about drug addiction and the drug scene Dick was
>part of, with a few bright shiny knobs on it to hide the fact
>that it was about the 70's.
I dont know. For me, A large part of the whole Cyberpunk thing was
almost a Noir-ish quality.
A dark feel to it, and someone (as I read once) Is always getting
Fucked over. :)
A scanner Darkly always had that gritty feel to it that I associate
with cyberpunk. Yes it might be dated, as most 40's-70's authors
conceptions of the future. As no doubt Gibson, Bruce Sterling or any
other contemporary authors will appear to be dated in 50 years or so.
Bright and shiny knobs? Then whats all the techno jargon (for example
Gibson, J.C Geenwood, or MMS) that is in most recent books, if not
"bright and shiny knobs" to hide the fact it was about the 80's ?
The bright and shiny knobs are an integral part of the SF style,
Cyberpunk, is IMHO an outgrowth of that.
Bright and Shiny knobs are almost compulsory.
>
>Bingo, give the man a prize.
Is it a Cupi(sp) Doll?
A Cigar?
One of those Humourous air bladders you can hide under a cushion to
embaress people when they sit down?
A rubber chipmunk?
An exploding mouse?
What about an authentic looking can of nuts with spring loaded steel
bolts inside that when you open it, shoot out and pierce you in a
hundred different places?
>
>I like the fact that his "heroes" are usually losers or children
>or both.
Theres defintely something to be said for the 'anti-hero' concept.
A reluctant hero, or character that doesnt get by thanks to
'mysterious powers gained from genetic experiments performed in vitro'
or due to some other non explainable 2 dimensional plot device, But by
bumbling along and being themselves and falling into the situation.
Gibson does this well, Donaldson, in my opinion does this
*excellently*.
And While MMS's character usually have some kind of special ability,
his characters are usually more rounded. They have their faults and
little quirks. Sometimes more so than any positive aspects they may
have.
>
>When reading Gibson's stuff I always used to think how perfect
>they would be as films. But with the abortion that was Johnny
>Mnemonic and the alleged travesty that is Abel Ferrara's New
>Rose Hotel, there doesn't seem to be much hope for it to be done
>properly. I think he's both a literate and entertaining writer,
>and I still find him far more engaging these days than, say,
>Bruce Sterling.
I read "Islands in the net" a long time ago.While I enjoyed the book,
it didnt really do anything for me. I tried "the Difference engine'
which despite what people have said to me, left me wanting to hammer
nails into the soles of my feet, after the first 30 pages or so.
Nothing since has managed to get me to read Sterling, Despite how
interesting they look.
Movie wise Johnny was an abomination. Popular myth says that gibson
walked of the set the first day of filming in tears, and I can see why
:)
New Rose Hotel I dont know anything about, I have heard though, that
Spares was bought by Dreamworks some time ago, so Im waiting patiently
to see whats going to be done with that.
Neef (The...cat....sat....on...the...mat..)
Sandro
>>>:Funny you should mention that, I've just bought the new
>>>:(real) Dragonlance book (Dragons of a Fallen Sun), and the
>>>:Raistlin book: The Soulforge. For olde times sake.
>>Please tell (eventually) whether they're decent or not. With
>>the appropriate amount of spoiler space, of course.
>Shouldn't need spoiler space, as I doubt I'd be posting any
>spoilers.
>I'm only four chapters into 'The Soulforge', and I'm still
>trying to reclaim my interest in Raist and Caramon. It's quite
>pedestrian so far.
Gee, will there be anything as shocking as Raistlin whispering
and being nasty, and coughing a lot, and dopey Caramon taking
all the abuse and insults like the great big fat martyr that he
is? :)
>Found out Weis has written a sequel too, with her husband. I
>fear.
Wow, she's as kind as that Anne Rice woman who keeps putting her
darling hubbies poetry into her books. Ah Stan, where would we
be if we couldn't make a living off another woman's coat tails?
>>>The Weis & Hickman Dragonlance Legends nearly rated a mention
>>>in my own list, although the authors have consistently been
>>>writing crap for a few years now. Dragons of Summer Flame
>>>should never, ever have been written.
>>I resisted reading Summer Flame through fear of having my dear,
>>dear memories sullied by new substandard material.
>Pretty much what happened, as I recall. It's been a few years
>since I did read it (five, to be exact), but I do seem to
>recall it smacked of arbitrary plotting (the book was more or
>less designed to fit into the Dragonlance game relaunch), and
>inconsistencies.
So you're saying they wrote new novels because they were trying
to sell new Dragonlance modules? I always knew that the
"original" books were such a product, but it strikes me as being
a bit of a pointless cash-in. Maybe I should live in a world
where the story ended with the last book of the twins trilogy.
Yes, that sounds best to me.
>>I loved the six books (including the Twins trilogy) very, very
>>much.
>Did you read 'The Second Generation'? Collects the W&H short
>stories from the 'Tales' which are cute, and worth
>reading, and a novella introducing the children of the Heroes
>of the Lance, which I have not read.
I remember reading a few books of the Tales, whose quality
pendulum swung so erratically you'd think someone with
Parkinson's was holding it. I remember reading some story about
Caramon's kids, Palin, Sturm and, can't remember, Tanin?
Amazingly, Palin is just like Raistlin, Sturm is just like Sturm
and Tanin is like Caramon, except with something of a brain.
Anyway, I gave up around the time I read this stuff.
>>So many characters that I loved so dearly, most of all
>>Raistlin (of course). But Weis and Hickman's books started
>>turning into the equivalent of gruel when they'd been giving
>>me gourmet delights beforehand (that poxy Darksword crap, the
>>Rose of the Wanderer), so I decided to stop reading them.
>Actually, I quite enjoyed the Darksword series, though I read
>them fairly young, and only once. I have meant to re-read it,
>but never have bothered.
An unsymapthetic main protagonist (Joram?), a goofy magic system
based on the opposite of the Force, an invasion of military
types from a pseudo Earth world led by a TV magician? It sucked.
>I don't recall much about the 'Rose' series - something about
>Gods being 20D and goldfish in a bowl.
It was vaguely amusing but entirely unnecessary, you just knew
before they had any idea what they were doing, they'd signed a
contract saying they'd deliver a trilogy. Thus they have to
deliberately set out to write a three book set. I resent that
kind of writing. I want the story to dictate the length of the
books and the number of books, not the contractual obligation.
Which is where my growing dissatisfaction with Eddings came from
until all I could do was give up in disgust.
>>They became a parody of themselves, and the fantasy
>>equivalent of Stephen King,
>True, readable, occasionally using interesting concepts - but
>never terribly well.
He is my benchmark for true crapness in writing. And John Grisham
>Of course, W&H are burdened by their gaming roots - it's clear
>in pretty much all the fantasy stuff they've done. I've not
>touched their SF stuff.
Woeful space opera crap.
>However, give them their due, in game related fiction, they're
>pretty much without peer.
I'll always love them for their early work, and from the sounds
of it there doesn't seem to be any point acquainting myself with
their later material, which is a definite shame.
>>Please tell me why Summer Flame shouldn't be read.
>It's just ... unnecessary, basically. As above, "rushed and ill-
>concieved", and less well-crafted.
I heard that they killed off a *major* character from the first
six books just to tug at the heart strings the way Flint's death
did in Dragon of Spring Dawning. Have they no shame?
>Like .... Tolkien's "New Shadow".
I have never read any Tolkien. Ever. But I am looking forward to
the film(s).
>>Sandro - booklover. That doesn't mean I stick the pages
>>together.
>No, that's for the Booktastic Bookmobile.
Indeed.
Sandro
--
"Yes, that's right, it was only by fucking chickens that I could
teach you to read." - South Park
Morgan Jaffit
>
>mor...@extro.vurt.net (Morgan Jaffit) wrote:
>>Sure, he put a few elements together that hadn't been
>>previously combined in that precise fashion, and sure, he
>>definined a specific vision of "c-punk" that's been slavishly
>>adhered to by any number of writers since.
>
>Which to a sixteen year old back in 1988 was amazingly new.
Oh. Okay.
Point taken - I thought you meant a kind of general, zeitgeist shock.
Personal shock I can deal with.
entrippy (wheres my barney?)
Sandro
Neef <ne...@sloth.vurt.net> wrote:
>On 3 Aug 2001 10:50:20 +1000, "Sandro" <cein...@my-deja.com>
>appeared in the Weekly World News headlines claiming :
>>Really? I'm not sure how it fits into the "genre". I just
>>thought it was a story about drug addiction and the drug scene
>>Dick was part of, with a few bright shiny knobs on it to hide
>>the fact that it was about the 70's.
>I dont know. For me, A large part of the whole Cyberpunk thing
>was almost a Noir-ish quality.
>A dark feel to it, and someone (as I read once) Is always
>getting Fucked over. :)
>A scanner Darkly always had that gritty feel to it that I
>associate with cyberpunk. Yes it might be dated, as most 40's-
>70's authors conceptions of the future. As no doubt Gibson,
>Bruce Sterling or any other contemporary authors will appear to
>be dated in 50 years or so.
Agreed to all of the above. But the thing with Scanner Darkly is
that the only "shiny knobs" so to speak, are the surveillance
techniques and the suit which masks his identity when he reports
to his superiors, both of which have a very minor role in the
story, and are more plot devices than actual great ideas or
concepts. We're not looking at the concepts in the story in terms
of humanity's reaction to technological progress etc bloody etc,
we're looking at a guy whose brain's splitting in half through
drug abuse of a mythical drug, which is more of a metaphor for
Dick's own downward spiral and the deaths in his ever shrinking
circle of friends and acqaintances. Totally valid themes, but
it's got more in common with writers like William S Burroughs
and Hubert Selby Jnr than anyone else. Anyway, whatever you get
out of it is yours to treasure, it's not for me to label your
experiences :)
>They're not Bright and shiny knobs? Then whats all the techno
>jargon (for example Gibson, J.C Geenwood, or MMS) that is in
>most recent books, if not "bright and shiny knobs" to hide the
>fact it was about the 80's ? The bright and shiny knobs are an
>integral part of the SF style, Cyberpunk, is IMHO an outgrowth
>of that.
>Bright and Shiny knobs are almost compulsory.
It's when the story arises out of the "brights and shinys" that
it really is SF / cyberpunk etc. If the stuff's just there as
window dressing then it's not, or should I say more correctly,
crap SF. With Bladerunner / Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,
the fact that there were replicants running around wasn't window
dressing, it was integral to the plot and the concepts that Dick
wanted to explore (identity, reality, self-awareness, memory).
That and Deckard's actual identity could only have been explored
in that setting through the issues raised or created by
technology. If you don't have that, then (with the film) all you
have is a detective story with some bad guys and a bounty hunter
who kills them all, which is the same no matter what setting you
situate it in. That's not SF, is it?
>>Bingo, give the man a prize.
>Is it a Cupi(sp) Doll?
Yes, it's a Kewpie Doll.
>A Cigar?
Yes, it's a Kewpie doll with a big Cuban cigar.
>One of those Humourous air bladders you can hide under a
>cushion to embaress people when they sit down?
Now that's just silly.
>A rubber chipmunk?
I don't want to know what you may want that for.
>An exploding mouse? What about an authentic looking can of nuts
>with spring loaded steel bolts inside that when you open it,
>shoot out and pierce you in a hundred different places?
It goes straight for the eyes.
>>I like the fact that his "heroes" are usually losers or
>>children or both.
>Theres defintely something to be said for the 'anti-hero'
>concept. A reluctant hero, or character that doesnt get by
>thanks to 'mysterious powers gained from genetic experiments
>performed in vitro' or due to some other non explainable 2
>dimensional plot device, But by bumbling along and being
>themselves and falling into the situation.
>Gibson does this well, Donaldson, in my opinion does this
>*excellently*. And While MMS's character usually have some kind
>of special ability, his characters are usually more rounded.
>They have their faults and little quirks. Sometimes more so
>than any positive aspects they may have.
*nods nods nods*
>>When reading Gibson's stuff I always used to think how perfect
>>they would be as films. But with the abortion that was Johnny
>>Mnemonic and the alleged travesty that is Abel Ferrara's New
>>Rose Hotel, there doesn't seem to be much hope for it to be
>>done properly. I think he's both a literate and entertaining
>>writer, and I still find him far more engaging these days
>>than, say, Bruce Sterling.
>I read "Islands in the net" a long time ago.While I enjoyed the
>book, it didnt really do anything for me. I tried "the
>Difference engine' which despite what people have said to me,
>left me wanting to hammer nails into the soles of my feet,
>after the first 30 pages or so. Nothing since has managed to
>get me to read Sterling, Despite how interesting they look.
The last of his I read were Heavy Weather and Holy Fire. I'm not
likely to bother again unless someone seriously recommends it.
>Movie wise Johnny was an abomination. Popular myth says that
>gibson walked of the set the first day of filming in tears, and
>I can see why :)
I'm amazed he didn't blow his brains out. Actually, blow
Kanooie's possibly non-existant brains out first, then his own.
>New Rose Hotel I dont know anything about, I have heard though,
>that Spares was bought by Dreamworks some time ago, so Im
>waiting patiently to see whats going to be done with that.
Neuromancer itself has been optioned about five times over the
last fifteen years, with companies keen to keep buying the rights
off Gibson, only to do nothing with it until the contract runs
out. He then sells it again. It must be great making money
without having to have his baby sacrificed on screen (yet) :)
>Neef (The...cat....sat....on...the...mat..)
Sandro - Big Dog. Little Dog. Red Dog. Run Dog!
stranger..
Thorfinn wrote
[..the Hobbit..]
:Well, yes. It was written specifically to be read aloud to children.
:As such, it's a *brilliant* piece of work, and has a very very
:different character to LoTR, and is a lot more re-readable.
What i find interesting is the way the tone changes. He starts out very
much as a little kids book, where the orcs sing about going 'down, down to
goblin town' and know their way about their tunnels like you know your way
to the corner shop etc, but just near the end he seems to forget that he's
started in that vein and the style becomes more epic and LoTR like.
At least that's how it struck me.
--
stranger..
(shrug)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.goth.net/~stranger
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
image is everything - obey your image
j...@tinkertoy.d2p.com.au
>
>>Zodiac, but Snowcrash I despise with a passion, and it
>>doesn't compare to stuff like Neuromancer or Idoru. Having said
>>that, 'All Tomorrow's Parties' really sucks big cocks.
>
>I don't think it sucked big cocks. If it sucked big cocks that
>would have been something of an achievement at least. Sucking
>big cocks is hard, it requires a certain amount of skill and
>abiltity, something that Gibbo's last book lacked. Though he did
>bring back his character based on Chopper!!
>
The comment at the start of one of Chopper's fiction novels,
following a William Gibson quote (One describing Chopper vs
the character based on him) was something like "I met a
cyberpunk once. I pulled his teeth out with pliers".
Kinda makes you wonder.
J.
Sandro
>Kinda makes you wonder.
Makes me wonder what the fuck old Uncle Chop Chop thinks a
"cyberpunk" is. I've never met one, I didn't know they existed,
and I realise it can be seen as an aesthetic, but, really, can
you really see Chopper going after the cast of The Matrix
threatening to pull their teeth out? Really, he just says it all
for effect. Still if he's half as insane as the film made him
out to be, I'd run away from him if I ever saw him in public.
Sandro - a cross between a raver and a punk is an abomination
that should be killed on site and burned to prevent any of the
DNA from spreading and infecting others with its evilness
Spark
news:3b69ee3e$1...@nexus.comcen.com.au...
: >Naturally, I disagree. Neuromancer's beauty is not in
: >it's 'cyberpunk' value, but in the language of pop culture, the
: >double punch of low class and high tech, and the concepts that
: >were aired and executed.
:
: Everything you say after "value" isn't what I believe is in the
: novel in *spite* of the title "cyberpunk", it's what I consider
: "cyberpunk" to be!!
Hmm. I see your point. I think I meant to say 'sci fi' as opposed to
'cyberpunk'. The point I was rather badly trying to make was that I read
Neuromancer et al as great works of fiction rather then great works of a
derived genre.
: I don't think it sucked big cocks. If it sucked big cocks that
: would have been something of an achievement at least. Sucking
: big cocks is hard, it requires a certain amount of skill and
: ability, something that Gibbo's last book lacked. Though he did
: bring back his character based on Chopper!!
For what, a paragraph? I thought Idoru was fantastic, which is why All
Tomorrows Parties is so humdrum - I was expecting so much better.
: >:Even Stephenson has his issues as a novelist ie, does he really
: >:know how to finish any of his books? :) I mean, they all end
: >:in such a way that you're waiting for a page that says "to be
: >:continued" only to realise that the show's over, move along
: >:people, nothing to see here. Maybe the corollary is true, it
: >:feels like that because the story's so good, you don't want it
: >:to end :) He does have issues though (ie pacing, character
: >:development in Snow Crash + Zodiac, massive reams of exposition
: >:through mouthpiece characters) but I'd say he's the best of the
: >:post cyberpunk writers that I've read.
:
: >What is Cyberpunk? So to speak.
:
: You might as well try to define what "alternative" is, or better
: yet, what "goth" music is :)
Yep. I said it with a certain amount of tongue in cheeks. :-)
: Though it still has similar themes to hard SF I think it's of
Does it? I actually don't think so, neither stylisticly or science wise.
Most of the hard sf I've read deals with fairly advanced physics, and still
has the traditional sf "competant hero" - Ser Olmy Ap Sennon, Nigel Walmsley
and Nicole des Jardins are the ubermensch that come immediately to mind.
: >I think I have to go by individual books - Greg Bear writes
: >either fantastic gems of decent science extrapolation, or
: >horrible, horrible pulp. Gregory Benford is probably more hard
: >sf then cyberpunk, and I do like my Pat Cadigan. Certainly
: >these have done as well or better then Stephenson .
:
: With Bear I have to say I liked his fantasy books The Infinity
: Concerto and The Serpent Mage far better than any of his other
: stuff (Queen of Angels, Blood Music, Eon).
I didn't mind QoA or Slant, but 'Anvil of Stars' shat me off big time.
'Darwin's Radio' reads like Micheal Crichton with a biology degree (taking a
minor in creative writing). Can't say I've read any of his fantasy. In fact,
I was unaware he'd actually done any.
Spark
: >I'm only four chapters into 'The Soulforge', and I'm still
: >trying to reclaim my interest in Raist and Caramon. It's quite
: >pedestrian so far.
:
: Gee, will there be anything as shocking as Raistlin whispering
: and being nasty, and coughing a lot, and dopey Caramon taking
: all the abuse and insults like the great big fat martyr that he
: is? :)
And looking like a whipped puppy while Raistlin sneers in disgust yadda
yadda
: >Pretty much what happened, as I recall. It's been a few years
: >since I did read it (five, to be exact), but I do seem to
: >recall it smacked of arbitrary plotting (the book was more or
: >less designed to fit into the Dragonlance game relaunch), and
: >inconsistencies.
:
: So you're saying they wrote new novels because they were trying
: to sell new Dragonlance modules? I always knew that the
: "original" books were such a product, but it strikes me as being
: a bit of a pointless cash-in. Maybe I should live in a world
: where the story ended with the last book of the twins trilogy.
: Yes, that sounds best to me.
I try to. I really, really try to. Summer Flames redeeming quality was the
Knights Of Takhisis, evil Knights based on the Solamnics. Liked that, but
still not worth it for the rest of the shite.
: >Actually, I quite enjoyed the Darksword series, though I read
: >them fairly young, and only once. I have meant to re-read it,
: >but never have bothered.
:
: An unsymapthetic main protagonist (Joram?), a goofy magic system
: based on the opposite of the Force, an invasion of military
: types from a pseudo Earth world led by a TV magician? It sucked.
:
: >I don't recall much about the 'Rose' series - something about
: >Gods being 20D and goldfish in a bowl.
Roughly. I actually enjoyed it more then the darksword trilogy. I also
really liked the first four books of the Death Gate series - seemed so
promising, and went downhill in the last three ... Their best characters
since the original Dragonlance yobs.
: >Of course, W&H are burdened by their gaming roots - it's clear
: >in pretty much all the fantasy stuff they've done. I've not
: >touched their SF stuff.
:
: Woeful space opera crap.
Brutally woeful. Some of the worst pieces of transparent writing I've ever
read. I'm choking on my bile just thinking about it. The should've stuck
with the 'kill the dragon to get the Wand of Power that enables you to kill
the bigger dragon' philosophy. That worked. Mostly.
: I'll always love them for their early work, and from the sounds
: of it there doesn't seem to be any point acquainting myself with
: their later material, which is a definite shame.
As I said, I did like the Death Gate stuff. Worth checking out. Fizban makes
a few appearances.
: I heard that they killed off a *major* character from the first
: six books just to tug at the heart strings the way Flint's death
: did in Dragon of Spring Dawning. Have they no shame?
*thinks*
Oh yeah, but that actually kinda fitted. Certainly it's not the worst aspect
of the book. They brought back Raistlin who was vaguely goody goody. Brought
him back cos everyone loves him, and turned him into a piss weak limp
wristed character. Don't know what they were thinking.
L. (furball!)
rakehell
on...
JAn
--
It was pissin' down outside. The day is seven hours and 15 minutes old and
already it's crippled with the weight of my evasion, deceipt and downright
lies.
--Bill Drummond "Bad Wisdom"
Feronia
[Tyme] wrote in message ...
>"julian" <euro...@paris.com> wrote in message
news:<Tky97.6544$V5.1...@news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au>...
>> Now for my top 5. picked off the top of my head.... I couldnt pick the
order
>> though.
>>
>> Tom Robbins - jitterbug perfume.
>> The best opening for a book, ever. A crazy amazing story told by a
fantastic
>> wordsmith.
>
>I'm currently debating if that's my favourite of his or not... It was
>definately enjoyable...
>
Skinny Legs and All is my favorite of his. He's such a spun-out dude.
Feronia
(OMG - did I just say 'dude'?)
Kage-Ryu
(*LittleChinaGirl*) inserted a refrigerator into their person and
screamed:
>On 31 Jul 2001 16:56:20 -0700, ange...@netspace.net.au (AngeLamia)
>wrote:
>>2.Delta of Venus - Anais Nin (romantic thing)
>
>Soft porn! Soft porn!
>
Little Birds is also entertainingly dirty.
SMUT!
Kage-Ryu
"Crazy, I'm halfway to crazy
Suicide could save me
Oh no, but that is too extreme."
The Jesus and Mary Chain
Lilith
> Lord Of The Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien
>
> I think this may be cheating, since the thing is actually six books
> (yes, six, it's usually published as three bound in pairs, with each
> pair given a single name) long, so I've put it as an extra one... If
> it counts, it'd be swapped with Through The Looking Glass, and that
> would be out of the five.
In that case, two of my favourites would be the last 2 books from LOTR
:-)
Add to those:
To Kill A Mockingbird - Harper Lee
Little Women - Louisa May Alcott
and
A Christmas Carol - Charles Dickens
Liz (who hasn't been posting because her 'puter is still packed after
moving 6 days ago, a record!)
slave angel
>Now for my top 5. picked off the top of my head.... I couldnt pick the order
>though.
>Kurt Vonnegut - breakfast of champions. or maybe jailbird. or mother night.
>KV is at his best when he writes about sad old men. When I grow up, I want
>to be a sad old man too. I want to be able to walk into a room (slow and
>shaky, but determined. with the help of a walking stick) full of happy
>teenagers, then with a sad, yet brave and dignified air tell some story
>about the tragedy I caused that destroyed my life and everyone I ever loved,
>and have them all cry. If you have to get old, at least you should be able
>to do that!
I would probally agree with you , and have kurt vonnegut in my fave/top five
thingy ..
I will just say ditto. wot 'e said about KV.. I can't choose one book ..
and the little prince a very special book to me as well :)
this poll is like the five fave song thing, pretty much impossible to do,
and
once you start thinking about what youve read the list keeps getting longer
:P
hmm.. I guess I'll cheat a little and say in no particular order..
the complete Shakespeare
the complete Oscar Wilde
these two titles alone have everything within them that you could ever ask
for!
if stranded on a dessert island these two books would be in the pack :P
hmm for my next choice I would probally have to slightly cheat again and say
the collected Roald Dahl, I have the tales of the unexpected, and his other
"grown up" stories in one volume, but I would also have to have the one that
has all his kiddies books as well, which are all just brill!
Charlie and the chocolate factory still one of my most read books, every
year
at least. cant say how pissed i am that nestle have the right to produce
Willy
Wonka choc *humph*
hmm for my last choice, I dunno, I cant really think of one thing that
changed
my life after reading it .. Charles Bukowski would have to rate a mention
though.
gritty dirty and most times completley horrid people feature in his tales,
but it so passionate.
A*
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Greylock
>"Greylock" <Hyd...@hotmail.GOV.invalid> scrawled:
>> Actually, I quite enjoyed the Darksword series, though I read them fairly
>> young, and only once. I have meant to re-read it, but never have bothered.
>Pretty much the same here. Though I think the *fourth* book (as a psuedo
>gaming book) was pretty much one of the worst marketing cobblations I've
>seen.
I forgot about that one. Good idea on how to package and market a gaming
system. It's down at Valhalla for $5 secondhand, I might get one.
But I was actually referring to the new-ish book they did, IIRC.
Forget what the name was, or when it came out, but I do recall seeing it
somewhere.
>I think I gave up on the Dragonlance books (and most of the Forgotten Realms
>stuff as well) around the time Heroes II came out. My partner at the time
>continued buying them but I think it was more out of wanting to have the
>complete set rather than an actual liking for them.
I think I read most of them through to the Meeting Quintet. They weren't
really worth my time.
I own all to Heros 1, and I think that was one Trilogy too far.
Greylock
>Hyd...@hotmail.GOV.invalid (Greylock) wrote:
>>Last episode "Sandro" <cein...@excite.com> said:
>>I'm only four chapters into 'The Soulforge', and I'm still
>>trying to reclaim my interest in Raist and Caramon. It's quite
>>pedestrian so far.
>Gee, will there be anything as shocking as Raistlin whispering
>and being nasty, and coughing a lot, and dopey Caramon taking
>all the abuse and insults like the great big fat martyr that he
>is? :)
Well, yes.
Of course, AFAIK, Caramon has just been the first Dragonlance character to
"straddle" a fair young (former) maiden.
Surprises all round!
>So you're saying they wrote new novels because they were trying
>to sell new Dragonlance modules?
Sort of: Dragonlance: Fifth Age was a new game system, using cards and
such. Someone else may know more than I, but Summer Flame was the book
which gave the history of a game setting sans Gods and including Dragon
Overloads.
>Thus they have to deliberately set out to write a three book set. I resent that
>kind of writing. I want the story to dictate the length of the
>books and the number of books, not the contractual obligation.
>Which is where my growing dissatisfaction with Eddings came from
>until all I could do was give up in disgust.
I hear that.
>>Of course, W&H are burdened by their gaming roots - it's clear
>>in pretty much all the fantasy stuff they've done. I've not
>>touched their SF stuff.
>Woeful space opera crap.
I shall stear clear. Probably.
>>Like .... Tolkien's "New Shadow".
>I have never read any Tolkien.
Colour me surprised.
Greylock
>As I said, I did like the Death Gate stuff. Worth checking out. Fizban makes
>a few appearances.
Ah, yes. I do recall that.
Death's Gate. That was it.
Had anyone read "The Immortals", Hicks' attempt at a "real" novel?
Hobbes
>On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:16:42 +1000, "Spark" <sp...@DESPAMgothic.net.au>
>appeared in the Weekly World News headlines claiming :
>
>
>>
>>"Rock On". Great story, great compilation. Was thinking of it when wondering
>>which sc fi author could be defined as cyberpunk ..
>>
>
>I was thinking of that this morning when I was comming to work.
>The problem is that how do you define cyberpunk to begin with?
>
here's a start
A defining feature of the genre is that cyberpunk is literature that
alienates the reader from the text.
do i need to explain that?
Morgan wrote a game that worked on the theory of using basic tenants
of cyberpunk to run a cyberpunk style game. Basically working on the
assumption that people are familar enough with the tropes of c-punk
to create a story. It would be interesting to see his list of what
those tropes are.. Of course this would C-punk roleplaying rather than
novels but hey..
Certain character stereotypes
Certain themes
Tech level
Virtual Reality
A world were the line between rich and poor is more distinct.
etc etc
I'd like to see more...
so we have a strange world which is vaguely familar, yet alien, with a
number of traits we associate with the genre of c-punk?
define cyberpunk is a topic I've been playing with for year - and I'm
afraid thatsthe best answer I've been able to come up with.
I'd really like to see a discussion on this point.
As for 5 fav novels
I can't do it - I can't even begin to do it. I could do movies
or storys or games - but not novels
I could give a list of favourite authors - but again - its too long.
the first five of the top of my head today.
Jeff Noon
MIchael Marshall Smith
John Courtney Grimwood
Lewis Carrol
A.A milne
Neal Stephenson
Joe Haldeman
Charles De Lint
Lemony Snickett
Niel Gaimen
And that not five..
It changes tomorrow.
Anything Neef or Megan suggests I read. Morgan has pretty damn fine
taste as well.
In the past week I have read
-The Empire Series (Daughter of the Empire, Servent of the
Empire, Mistress of the Empire) - Janny Wurts and Raymond Fiest
needed some brain candy
-Exchange of Hostages - can't remember authors name
-a lemony snickett book
-Bellweather by Connie Willis
-The Bonesetters Daughter - Amy Tan
-Some assorted feminist fairytales
I'm about to start re-reading the Amber stuff by Roger Zelazny - I hate
Zelazny - but like the world - and need to research for a game - I also
need to re read Hitchhikers for a costume idea for a party.
--
back to cyberpunk definitions
At this point I ring Megan at Slow Glass books to discuss Cyberpunk
and authors
Megan's definition of Cyberpunk - Science Fiction in a black leather jacket.
she also says
punk means written in a less than convential style. cyber tends to be
gritty feel with tech added.
dictionary of SF says (at this point we both hads to go do work,
so get back to you on this one)
Hobbes
--
<arty> non-gender-specific deranged non-specific sharp pointy
thing on a stick weilding homicidal maniac
<Holocaine> arty: You mean Hobbes?
Hobbes
>On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:43:27 GMT, Hyd...@hotmail.GOV.invalid
>(Greylock) wrote:
>>In starting my list, which I can't decide on, I also listen Blyton -
>>although t'was the Mountains of Mystery & the Circus of Adventure tied for
>>number one spot.
>
>I loved the circus ones too...were the first ones I read, I think. I
>can't even remember the character names now, but I recall really
>wishing I could be the girl who rode zebras, and the little boy who
>tried to tame the big cats....*sigh*
>
Mr Galliano's Circus.Circus Days Again and Hurrah for the Circus
I think...
I believe the girl was a Lotta. The boy a Jimmy.
I wanted to join the circus as a kid - one of my cousins did do
the whole run away and join the circus thing :)
Hobbes ( I can't believe I remember that)
Morgan Jaffit
>
>Anything Neef or Megan suggests I read. Morgan has pretty damn fine
>taste as well.
Actually, I have come to the conclusion that I have woeful taste - but a
good ear for other peoples tastes.
I am the very model of a psuedo-intelligent agent. I tend to be able to
cross reference tastes with my friends, and recommend stuff that they'll
like. But I did/do enjoy some woeful stuff that I would never recommend to
anyone in a pink fit.
Myer for Hire, fer instance.
For example, I'm passing fond of Agatha Christie, any bad pulp crime novel,
any and all sixties 'drug' novels, tacky war comics, carter brown novels,
the destroyer (remo williams) and all that jazz.
entrippy (gwan!)
solitaire
<mor...@extro.vurt.net> wrote:
>In article <slrn9ms079...@atlantis.ecr.mu.oz.au>, Hobbes wrote:
>>
>>Anything Neef or Megan suggests I read. Morgan has pretty damn fine
>>taste as well.
>
>Actually, I have come to the conclusion that I have woeful taste - but a
>good ear for other peoples tastes.
>
>I am the very model of a psuedo-intelligent agent. I tend to be able to
>cross reference tastes with my friends, and recommend stuff that they'll
>like. But I did/do enjoy some woeful stuff that I would never recommend to
>anyone in a pink fit.
>
*shrug*
I suspect that often "X has good taste" simply means "X knows what to
admit to, and when."
There are some shockers in my collection that I love, and I'd say the
same about Megan. In the context of Hobbes' statement, I think it's the
"knowing what is good" that counts as good taste, rather than "only
reading what is good". I've just mindlessly enjoyed the hell out of an
Anne McCaffrey book, for example...
sol.
.
--
"I can deal with being a whore, but being a Microsoft whore
is something which really grates on me"
--Jojo
Hobbes
>On 6 Aug 2001 02:57:56 GMT, Morgan Jaffit
> <mor...@extro.vurt.net> wrote:
>>In article <slrn9ms079...@atlantis.ecr.mu.oz.au>, Hobbes wrote:
>>>
>>>Anything Neef or Megan suggests I read. Morgan has pretty damn fine
>>>taste as well.
>>
>>Actually, I have come to the conclusion that I have woeful taste - but a
>>good ear for other peoples tastes.
>>
>>I am the very model of a psuedo-intelligent agent. I tend to be able to
>>cross reference tastes with my friends, and recommend stuff that they'll
>>like. But I did/do enjoy some woeful stuff that I would never recommend to
>>anyone in a pink fit.
>>
>
>*shrug*
>I suspect that often "X has good taste" simply means "X knows what to
>admit to, and when."
>
>There are some shockers in my collection that I love, and I'd say the
>same about Megan. In the context of Hobbes' statement, I think it's the
>"knowing what is good" that counts as good taste, rather than "only
>reading what is good". I've just mindlessly enjoyed the hell out of an
>Anne McCaffrey book, for example...
>
very similar tastes in books and its a firm bet that if he enjoyed
it I prolly will as well - although that goes for movies as well.
Megan on the other hand knows what I like. And as such will
suggest stuff based on that. Its why I'm broke all the time - she
has bad habits of ringing me at work and telling me what new stock the
shop got in that I want.
Morgan I can blame for my love of Phillip K Dick, Alfred Bester
and Iain M Banks (even the hard covers) and all sorts of strange
70's SF. But then again Morgan likes Zelazny - I can't respect that -
even though I have tried and tried to read lord of light Zelazny for him.
I just can't seem to finish it.
So i guess the correct way of saying that is Morgan generally
has good taste in SF :)
Hell - I've even taken Solitaires advice on books on occasion :)
Hobbes (will read anything once really)
[Tyme]
> [Tyme] said:
>
> <<KLF the manual:>>
> > Glad you actually found it after the Squarepusher gig where I babbled
> > at you about it... =]
> >
> ??? I don't remember you talking about that to me there, and I'd already
> read it by then.....
>
> > Completely off topic [for this thread] -> Did you like the
> > Squarepusher gig?
> >
> not really. I expected a lot more from him, given his album releases.
> Really, there were about 3 ideas repeated over and over and over.... IMO a
> huge wank. and boring as all hell to watch..... I already got into a pretty
> big discussion about this on one of the music mailinglists I'm subscribed
> to..... But apparently sets just like the one he did are "in" this year with
> the warp crowd. Apparently autechre have been touring with an hour of sub
> bass and white noise. hmmm..... oh well. maybe something I like will be in
> fashion with them all next year.
>
>
> julian
Hmmmm... maybe you're a different Julian to the one I thought you
were... I was talking to a Julian with curly hair, we were talking
downstairs before the gig while local newtown residents preformed some
of the worse kareoke I have ever heard.
Pity to hear about Autechre... while I'd still enjoy it [the same way
I enjoyed []pusher] it's not exactly what I'd go see Autechre for. I
think after relistening to Selection 16 and buying the new album it
gives you a whole new insight into the concert and exactly what he was
on about.
I enjoyed it...
*shrug*
My bootleg of it is reasonably crappy tho. Too many people chatting.
--Tyme--
Barbarella
>
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:56:35 +0800, "n4cat" <n4...@yahoo.com> appeared
> in the Weekly World News headlines claiming :
> >originate.
> >They would have to be fairly well known.
> >Maybe Miss B or Neef could come up with something. I'm not that well versed
> >in trad goff to be of any use.
>
> *Stops*
>
> *thinks*
>
> Im going to take that as a compliment :)
And so you should, gorgeous. I know *I'm* planning to. :)
> *goes back to writing*
Good boy! *pats Neef on head*
Barbarella.
--
TheUnfaithfulWriter: http://www.internettrash.com/users/barbarella.
Several hundred miles of snaking tarmac,
Leads to smoky door, violent sound & haunting spirits,
Amongst them, an object of fantasy,
Black lace and spiky hair, penetrating eyes, & a ghostly grin. -jbk