Startup problems

[Me]

Startup problems



Problems with starting had been experienced for more than a week. My OS, Windows XP Home, has been reinstalled two times in the
last few days because of the startup problems; however, they are still occurring.



Yesterday I performed FIXMBR successfully from the recovery console with no change to the startup problems.



I suspected that I would experience some startup problems today so all external USB hard drives had been removed. So today's
startup from cold:

At first attempt the message appeared,

A DISK ERROR OCCURRED

PRESS CTRL + ALT + DEL TO RESTART

I pressed Ctrl+Alt+Del and restarted.

The second attempt gave me an identical result to the first, so I restarted again.

The third attempt, after quite a while stuck on the post screen, went to a black screen, lingered on the black screen for quite a
while, then a white strip appeared across the bottom of the screen and lines flashed across it from left to right, very similar to
the strip that appears when starting Windows 2000, then the computer started, but showed a welcome screen with a window requiring
a password before going any further. I do not use the password procedure.

I suspect that what's happening is that for some reason the computer is unable to read/utilise the correct startup files and is
therefore using alternate startup files included in the system as a redundancy. Is this correct?

Sometimes it still fails to completely start even after doing the Ctrl+Alt+Del procedure numerous times, so I press the power
button for 4 seconds to manually shut down and so far after doing that several it times has started. I am concerned that one day
it may fail to start no matter what procedure I use.



Why is it happening? How can I get the computer to resume normal startup?



Thanks in advance for any and all assistance.



Cheers

Buck

[Rod Speed]

Me <som...@microsoft.com> wrote

> Startup problems

> Problems with starting had been experienced for more than a week. My OS,
> Windows XP Home, has been reinstalled two times in the last few days
> because of the startup problems;

Was there any problem at all reinstalling ?

> however, they are still occurring.

> Yesterday I performed FIXMBR successfully from the recovery console with
> no change to the startup problems.

It won't be that. That either works or it doesn�t.

> I suspected that I would experience some startup problems today so all
> external USB hard drives had been removed. So today's startup from cold:

> At first attempt the message appeared,

> A DISK ERROR OCCURRED

So the hard drive has a problem, maybe
only for a while until it warms up.

> PRESS CTRL + ALT + DEL TO RESTART

> I pressed Ctrl+Alt+Del and restarted.

> The second attempt gave me an identical result to the first, so I
> restarted again.

> The third attempt, after quite a while stuck on the post screen,

Which is really just the symptoms of a problem varying.

> went to a black screen, lingered on the black screen for quite a
> while, then a white strip appeared across the bottom of the screen and
> lines flashed across it from left to right, very similar to the strip that
> appears when starting Windows 2000, then the computer started, but showed
> a welcome screen with a window requiring a password before going any
> further. I do not use the password procedure.

> I suspect that what's happening is that for some reason the computer is
> unable to read/utilise the correct startup files

Yes, because there is some problem with the hard drive or controller etc.

> and is therefore using alternate startup files included in the system as a
> redundancy. Is this correct?

No there are no alternate startup files.

Whats actually happening is that when it can't
read the startup files properly, it just defaults
some of the settings that the startup files change.

> Sometimes it still fails to completely start even after doing the
> Ctrl+Alt+Del procedure numerous times, so I press the power button for 4
> seconds to manually shut down and so far after doing that several it times
> has started.

Presumably just because its now warmed up and the fault goes away.

> I am concerned that one day it may fail to start no matter what procedure
> I use.

That's certainly possible.

> Why is it happening?

You have a fault that currently only shows up when
starting from cold which goes away once it warms up.

> How can I get the computer to resume normal startup?

By working out where the fault is and replacing what
has the fault.

[Bob Milutinovic]

"Me" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:kmkp26$4jk$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

If you've already gone through the complete re-install procedure, you won't
be too inconvenienced by doing it again - get yourself a new hard drive,
install the operating system on there, and your problems will be solved.

Unless you've sat your microwave oven on top of your computer, the only
cause for such random data corruption would be a flaking surface on your
drive - it's well and truly on its way out.

500Gb drives can be had for under $60, so economic restriction can't be
argued. Maybe invest another $2 for a new SATA cable, just in case.

--
Bob Milutinovic
Cognicom

[StJ]

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:av6bnd...@mid.individual.net...

> Me <som...@microsoft.com> wrote
>
>> Startup problems
>
>> Problems with starting had been experienced for more than a week. My OS, Windows XP Home, has been reinstalled two times in the
>> last few days because of the startup problems;
>
> Was there any problem at all reinstalling ?
>

No problems reinstalling

>> however, they are still occurring.
>
>> Yesterday I performed FIXMBR successfully from the recovery console with no change to the startup problems.
>

> It won't be that. That either works or it doesn’t.

>
>> I suspected that I would experience some startup problems today so all external USB hard drives had been removed. So today's
>> startup from cold:
>
>> At first attempt the message appeared,
>
>> A DISK ERROR OCCURRED
>
> So the hard drive has a problem, maybe
> only for a while until it warms up.
>

Agreed, warm reboots don't cause any problem except for requiring a password

>> PRESS CTRL + ALT + DEL TO RESTART
>
>> I pressed Ctrl+Alt+Del and restarted.
>
>> The second attempt gave me an identical result to the first, so I restarted again.
>
>> The third attempt, after quite a while stuck on the post screen,
>
> Which is really just the symptoms of a problem varying.
>
>> went to a black screen, lingered on the black screen for quite a
>> while, then a white strip appeared across the bottom of the screen and lines flashed across it from left to right, very similar
>> to the strip that appears when starting Windows 2000, then the computer started, but showed a welcome screen with a window
>> requiring a password before going any further. I do not use the password procedure.
>
>> I suspect that what's happening is that for some reason the computer is unable to read/utilise the correct startup files
>
> Yes, because there is some problem with the hard drive or controller etc.
>

I've run checks on the HDD and it showed no problems with the media

>> and is therefore using alternate startup files included in the system as a redundancy. Is this correct?
>
> No there are no alternate startup files.
>
> Whats actually happening is that when it can't
> read the startup files properly, it just defaults
> some of the settings that the startup files change.
>

Okay, good to know

>> Sometimes it still fails to completely start even after doing the Ctrl+Alt+Del procedure numerous times, so I press the power
>> button for 4 seconds to manually shut down and so far after doing that several it times has started.
>
> Presumably just because its now warmed up and the fault goes away.
>
>> I am concerned that one day it may fail to start no matter what procedure I use.
>
> That's certainly possible.
>
>> Why is it happening?
>
> You have a fault that currently only shows up when
> starting from cold which goes away once it warms up.
>

Agreed

>> How can I get the computer to resume normal startup?
>
> By working out where the fault is and replacing what
> has the fault.
>

Precisely! How do I do that?

[Rod Speed]

StJ <som...@microsoft.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>> Me <som...@microsoft.com> wrote

>>> Startup problems

>>> Problems with starting had been experienced for more than a week. My OS,
>>> Windows XP Home, has been reinstalled two times in the last few days
>>> because of the startup problems;

>> Was there any problem at all reinstalling ?

> No problems reinstalling

That supports the proposition that it�s a warmup fault.

Once its warmed up, the problem goes away.

>>> however, they are still occurring.

>>> Yesterday I performed FIXMBR successfully from the recovery console with
>>> no change to the startup problems.

>> It won't be that. That either works or it doesn�t.

>>> I suspected that I would experience some startup problems today so all
>>> external USB hard drives had been removed. So today's startup from cold:

>>> At first attempt the message appeared,

>>> A DISK ERROR OCCURRED

>> So the hard drive has a problem, maybe
>> only for a while until it warms up.

> Agreed, warm reboots don't cause any problem except for requiring a
> password

That requiring a password is a bit of a worry
given that you said it does not normally want
one. Most likely that just changed with the
reinstalls, its not back to the same state it was
in before any reinstall on that password question.

>>> PRESS CTRL + ALT + DEL TO RESTART

>>> I pressed Ctrl+Alt+Del and restarted.

>>> The second attempt gave me an identical result to the first, so I
>>> restarted again.

>>> The third attempt, after quite a while stuck on the post screen,

>> Which is really just the symptoms of a problem varying.

>>> went to a black screen, lingered on the black screen for quite a while,
>>> then a white strip appeared across the bottom of the screen and lines
>>> flashed across it from left to right, very similar to the strip that
>>> appears when starting Windows 2000, then the computer started, but
>>> showed a welcome screen with a window requiring a password before going
>>> any further. I do not use the password procedure.

>>> I suspect that what's happening is that for some reason the computer is
>>> unable to read/utilise the correct startup files

>> Yes, because there is some problem with the hard drive or controller etc.

> I've run checks on the HDD and it showed no problems with the media

But that�s after its warmed up.

Post JUST the SMART report on the drive using
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/everest_free_edition.html

>>> and is therefore using alternate startup files included in the system as
>>> a redundancy. Is this correct?

>> No there are no alternate startup files.

>> Whats actually happening is that when it can't
>> read the startup files properly, it just defaults
>> some of the settings that the startup files change.

> Okay, good to know

>>> Sometimes it still fails to completely start even after doing the
>>> Ctrl+Alt+Del procedure numerous times, so I press the power button for 4
>>> seconds to manually shut down and so far after doing that several it
>>> times has started.

>> Presumably just because its now warmed up and the fault goes away.

>>> I am concerned that one day it may fail to start no matter what
>>> procedure I use.

>> That's certainly possible.

>>> Why is it happening?

>> You have a fault that currently only shows up when
>> starting from cold which goes away once it warms up.

> Agreed

>>> How can I get the computer to resume normal startup?

>> By working out where the fault is and replacing what has the fault.

> Precisely! How do I do that?

Swap bits that could produce that symptom
you are seeing and see if the fault goes away.

Simplest to try a different cable to the drive,
but its not very likely that it�s the cable if its a
decent modern SATA drive. If it isnt, its possible
that it is just a bad cable.

Then try another hard drive.

If the fault is still there, its then either a motherboard
fault, or a power supply fault, so try swapping the
power supply.

Not easy to swap the motherboard, so leave that till last
and if swapping all of the power supply, cable and hard
drive still shows the fault when cold it�s the motherboard.

If it looks like the motherboard, as a last resort its worth
trying the system with the motherboard loose on the
desktop. You can get an intermittent short to case that
is only seen when cold, but that�s pretty unlikely and so
its only worth checking as a last resort when you are
about to either swap the motherboard or chuck the
system out because the cost of a motherboard swap
isnt warranted.

Corse you can also just not turn the system off or
be prepared to wait until it warms up before you
use it after you turn it on again. It may not stay
just as a cold fault tho.

[darren]

Bad ram can scramble the windows files and the problem gets worse with
every start up

[Clocky]

SMART can't be relied on, I had a drive fail completely just a few weeks
ago and the SMART report still says nothing is wrong.

Second time that has happened now.

[Clocky]

Rod Speed wrote:
> StJ <som...@microsoft.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Me <som...@microsoft.com> wrote
>
>>>> Startup problems
>
>>>> Problems with starting had been experienced for more than a week. My
>>>> OS, Windows XP Home, has been reinstalled two times in the last few
>>>> days because of the startup problems;
>
>>> Was there any problem at all reinstalling ?
>
>> No problems reinstalling
>

> That supports the proposition that it’s a warmup fault.

>
> Once its warmed up, the problem goes away.
>
>>>> however, they are still occurring.
>
>>>> Yesterday I performed FIXMBR successfully from the recovery console
>>>> with no change to the startup problems.
>

>>> It won't be that. That either works or it doesn’t.

> But that’s after its warmed up.

> but its not very likely that it’s the cable if its a

> decent modern SATA drive. If it isnt, its possible
> that it is just a bad cable.
>

I had one with similar symptoms and all it turned out to be was the SATA
cable being loose and it had worked it's way out of the connector.

Pushing it back in and pulling it out again revealed that the connector
was a loose sliding fit and would just slide out over time due to
vibration from drives etc.

Some of those cheap shit cables supplied with motherboards aren't worth
2 bob.

[Rod Speed]

darren <dronn...@adam.com.au> wrote

But don�t produce that very characteristic symptom
that he is seeing, that repeated attempts to boot fail
until the system has warmed up enough and then its
fine and can even do a full reinstall fine too.

And the reinstalls would fix the scrambled windows files too.

> and the problem gets worse with every start up

You don�t get that effect with bad ram in the sense
that more and more windows files get scrambled
with every startup.

[Rod Speed]

"Clocky" <not...@happen.com> wrote in message
news:518eeb8a$0$21809$c3e8da3$7649...@news.astraweb.com...

It can in his situation where something in the hard drive
sub system is preventing a boot until it warms up enough
and you are trying to decide if the cold fault is in the hard
drive itself or in some other part of the hard drive sub system
like the cable, controller, motherboard or power supply.

> I had a drive fail completely just a few weeks ago and the SMART report
> still says nothing is wrong.

How can you even see the SMART report
if the hard drive has failed completely ?

> Second time that has happened now.

You can't even see a SMART report
on a drive that has failed completely.

If you can see the SMART report on the drive,
it has not failed completely and the problem
is not in the hard drive, its somewhere else
like the motherboard etc.

[Rod Speed]

"Clocky" <not...@happen.com> wrote in message

news:518eede7$0$21888$c3e8da3$7649...@news.astraweb.com...

> Rod Speed wrote:
>> StJ <som...@microsoft.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Me <som...@microsoft.com> wrote
>>
>>>>> Startup problems
>>
>>>>> Problems with starting had been experienced for more than a week. My
>>>>> OS, Windows XP Home, has been reinstalled two times in the last few
>>>>> days because of the startup problems;
>>
>>>> Was there any problem at all reinstalling ?
>>
>>> No problems reinstalling
>>

>> That supports the proposition that it�s a warmup fault.

>>
>> Once its warmed up, the problem goes away.
>>
>>>>> however, they are still occurring.
>>
>>>>> Yesterday I performed FIXMBR successfully from the recovery console
>>>>> with no change to the startup problems.
>>

>>>> It won't be that. That either works or it doesn�t.

>> But that�s after its warmed up.

>> but its not very likely that it�s the cable if its a

>> decent modern SATA drive. If it isnt, its possible
>> that it is just a bad cable.

> I had one with similar symptoms and all it turned out to be was the SATA
> cable being loose and it had worked it's way out of the connector.

That doesn�t normally produced that absolutely classic
warmup symptom and will usually show some problems
with reinstalls that he isnt seeing either.

> Pushing it back in and pulling it out again revealed that the connector
> was a loose sliding fit and would just slide out over time due to
> vibration from drives etc.

Sure, but that doesn�t usually give the warmup symptoms he is seeing.

[Clocky]

Easy as long as the controller is still responding to requests for the
SMART data.

[Rod Speed]

"Clocky" <not...@happen.com> wrote in message

news:51903df2$0$21942$c3e8da3$7649...@news.astraweb.com...

It can't if its failed completely and if it can't
read the firmware off the platter at spinup
time, it cant even respond to a SMART request.