Great Wall Motors Utes.
Clocky
John_H
>All that cheapness comes at a price...
>
>http://www.themotorreport.com.au/43501/proton-jumbuck-great-wall-utes-perform-poorly-in-ancap-crash-safety-tests/
The dealer who kept the PM in a free ute (John Grant) is a Great Wall
agent, so with any sort of luck he'll provide an upgrade for Kev's old
Mazda! ;-)
--
John H
Lars Chance
> All that cheapness comes at a price...
>
> http://www.themotorreport.com.au/43501/proton-jumbuck-great-wall-utes-perform-poorly-in-ancap-crash-safety-tests/
>
consideration when buying a ute (or even a passenger car).
It would be one below "colour", two below "resale" and not even in the
same same continent as "bang for buck [both performance and fruit]",
"comfort and suitability", "parts availability, interchangeability &
cost", "running cost [inc. fuel]" etc.
If I thought I needed to be protected from crashing and crash-injuries I
wouldn't drive.
--
Elsie.
Atheist Chaplain
news:11cJm.52915$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
I'm sure people will cry at your funeral.
But then I suppose it will be too late for you to still feel bullet proof
:-)
but for the rest of the population that isn't in the nutter category, you
might be surprised to find that vehicle manufacturers don't put stuff in
their marketing campaigns if they know people don't care, that's why
advertising for cars now usually has ANCAP safety ratings and such, because
safety sells.
--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ." Gandhi
Lars Chance
> "Lars Chance" <lars....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:11cJm.52915$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> Clocky wrote:
>>> All that cheapness comes at a price...
>>>
>>> http://www.themotorreport.com.au/43501/proton-jumbuck-great-wall-utes-perform-poorly-in-ancap-crash-safety-tests/
>>>
>>>
>> I can honestly say that "crash safety" would be my very LEAST
>> consideration when buying a ute (or even a passenger car).
>> It would be one below "colour", two below "resale" and not even in the
>> same same continent as "bang for buck [both performance and fruit]",
>> "comfort and suitability", "parts availability, interchangeability &
>> cost", "running cost [inc. fuel]" etc.
>>
>> If I thought I needed to be protected from crashing and crash-injuries
>> I wouldn't drive.
>
> I'm sure people will cry at your funeral.
> But then I suppose it will be too late for you to still feel bullet
> proof :-)
> but for the rest of the population that isn't in the nutter category,
> you might be surprised to find that vehicle manufacturers don't put
> stuff in their marketing campaigns if they know people don't care,
> that's why advertising for cars now usually has ANCAP safety ratings and
> such, because safety sells.
>
So is that really a factor for you? Would you *genuinely* spend another
$2 or $4k to get another ANCAP star?!?!
(And is that your major interest when comparing cars?)
I'm well aware that the Govts (and the auto associations) have pushed
for these things but I very very seriously doubt that the general public
gives more than a flying duck about them!
--
Elsie.
Clocky
"Lars Chance" <lars....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11cJm.52915$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> All that cheapness comes at a price...
>>
>> http://www.themotorreport.com.au/43501/proton-jumbuck-great-wall-utes-perform-poorly-in-ancap-crash-safety-tests/
>>
> I can honestly say that "crash safety" would be my very LEAST
> consideration when buying a ute (or even a passenger car).
More fool you.
> It would be one below "colour", two below "resale" and not even in the
> same same continent as "bang for buck [both performance and fruit]",
> "comfort and suitability", "parts availability, interchangeability &
> cost", "running cost [inc. fuel]" etc.
In which case Great Wall vehicles represent even even poorer value for
money.
> If I thought I needed to be protected from crashing and crash-injuries I
> wouldn't drive.
>
It's your life, but what about the passengers?
Clocky
Who do you think the government and auto associations represent? People
care, or else we would all be driving zero star rated crap on the road.
D Walford
Depends on what aspect of "safety" we are talking about, I don't care
all that much about airbags, traction control, stability control etc but
I would be concerned driving a vehicle that had such poor structural
integrity that it folded in on me in a crash.
Daryl
D Walford
poor structural integrity which IMO is something to be worried about.
I don't much care to rely on electronic gadgetry to save me but I
wouldn't drive something so badly designed/built that it crumpled like a
beer can when it hits anything.
Daryl
John_H
>
>I can honestly say that "crash safety" would be my very LEAST
>consideration when buying a ute (or even a passenger car).
It's particularly the case with a 4WD ute, or any other off-road
vehicle, where the majority of "safety features" only impede
performance.
Traction and stability control (now essential for a five star rating)
is a PITA when it's slippery. Forgetting to turn it off can easily
get you bogged to the eyeballs or worse still, have you slide down an
embankment unable to get traction. ABS is also a serious impediment
in many off bitumen situations.
And why pick on the Chinese? Until very recently you could pay $80k
for a fully optioned Landcruiser ute with most "safety features",
including airbags, not even available as an option. Maybe you still
can.
--
John H
hippo
>
> All that cheapness comes at a price...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
"Great (if-you-don't-drive-it-into-a) Wall"
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
Atheist Chaplain
what part of "Auto manufacturers would not be spending money on advertising
ANCAP ratings if the general population ding give a flying fuck " is giving
you a problem ?? Big corporations spend millions on market research and
focus groups so they know exactly where to target every advertising dollar,
if safety didn't sell then it wouldn't even get brochure space.
Just because you don't care that some vehicle manufacturers considers your
chest as part of the crumple zone of the car does not mean that most of the
general driving and car buying public thinks the same way. At the end of the
day Joe Bloggs will look at car A and car B, and if car B has 5 stars over
car A's 4 and all else being equal I'm willing to be that 1 star WILL make a
difference.
And while I may think I am not going to crash, its the other fuckwits on the
road I have to be more concerned with so if I'm driving a 5 star rated car
and get T boned by a drunk running a red light in a 1999 Hyundai Excel, I
think that all those stars are worth whatever I paid for them.
So are you such an elite driver that you can avoid getting blind sided by a
P plater in Dads Land Cruiser on full tilt??
John_H
>
>So are you such an elite driver that you can avoid getting blind sided by a
>P plater in Dads Land Cruiser on full tilt??
And if he isn't, he'd also need to make sure he's driving something
considerably bigger and heavier than the fuckwit who hits him. :)
What many people don't seem to realise, and the advertising does
nothing to dispel, is that the ANCAP star ratings are only relative to
cars of similar size and weight.... http://www.ancap.com.au/faq/7/
--
John H
us...@domain.invalid
horrible road car
I mean cheap shitty horrible
but in the dirt it's not much worse than a Lada and they go ok for a
shitebox if a little underpowered for my taste
I would never seriously "never" own one for the road but in the mud it
was better than the lux being lighter
Deevo
news:0304e356$0$1269$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> All that cheapness comes at a price...
>
> http://www.themotorreport.com.au/43501/proton-jumbuck-great-wall-utes-perform-poorly-in-ancap-crash-safety-tests/
Not a new issue. When the original Minis came out there were safety
concerns raised about them too. One of the manufacturers' representatives
did make an excellent point at the time though, the most important safety
component is the "nut behind the wheel".
In short, all of these safety items are little more than patchwork solutions
that encourage slack attitudes toward driving. More lives would be saved by
people actually learning to drive properly than by any amount of airbags.
Of course that wouldn't be a politically popular move and therefore is
unlikely to be addressed by governments. Much easier to blame "unsafe cars"
for the road toll.
--
Deevo
Geraldton Western Australia
Lars Chance
wouln't drive them either!
Do you really, genuinely get behind the wheel of a motor-vehicle and
leave your and your passengers' wellbeing in the hands of some air-bags
and intrusion protection?!!?
This, of course, means that you wouldn't DREAM of ever driving (or
taking a passenger) in a non-SRS-equipped car too.
You'd never be so fool-hardy as to take a spin around the block in a
pre-2000 car or travel in a van or light-commercial vehicle that didn't
have 5 ANCAP stars too.
Shit; you'd never go in a bus or train that didn't have seat-belts and
air-bags either if you were genuine.
Maybe you're not genuine though. Maybe you're just a do-gooder wanker
like the other one.
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
> "Lars Chance" <lars....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> So is that really a factor for you? Would you *genuinely* spend another
>> $2 or $4k to get another ANCAP star?!?!
>> (And is that your major interest when comparing cars?)
>>
>> I'm well aware that the Govts (and the auto associations) have pushed for
>> these things but I very very seriously doubt that the general public gives
>> more than a flying duck about them!
>>
>
> Who do you think the government and auto associations represent? People
> care, or else we would all be driving zero star rated crap on the road.
>
Did you know that "gullible" isn't even in the Oxford dictionary?
When Volvo starts outselling Hyundai I might believe Joe-Public cares.
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
>
> Depends on what aspect of "safety" we are talking about, I don't care
> all that much about airbags, traction control, stability control etc but
> I would be concerned driving a vehicle that had such poor structural
> integrity that it folded in on me in a crash.
>
>
users) started driving like one-small-crash-could-kill-you you'd all
drive less and you'd all drive much more carefully. [*]
That would make the roads a much better place to be on!
--
Elsie.
[*] That's the theory anyway. Humans being humans I doubt that'd be the
reality though.
Lars Chance
> Lars Chance wrote:
>> I can honestly say that "crash safety" would be my very LEAST
>> consideration when buying a ute (or even a passenger car).
>> It would be one below "colour", two below "resale" and not even in the
>> same same continent as "bang for buck [both performance and fruit]",
>> "comfort and suitability", "parts availability, interchangeability &
>> cost", "running cost [inc. fuel]" etc.
>>
>> If I thought I needed to be protected from crashing and crash-injuries
>> I wouldn't drive.
>>
> The main reason those vehicles fare so badly in those tests is their
> poor structural integrity which IMO is something to be worried about.
> I don't much care to rely on electronic gadgetry to save me but I
> wouldn't drive something so badly designed/built that it crumpled like a
> beer can when it hits anything.
>
[shrug] You wouldn't drive an E-Type Jag, a Ferrari Daytona or a Datsun
Fairlady?
A Mercedes Gull-Wing, an Austin Healey Sprite, a Karmann Ghia or an old
Mini Cooper S (they WERE death-traps!)
I reckon the Great-Wall would shit all over any of them for crash-safety!
Not that I care either-way though; I don't intend to crash any of them.
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
You must live in a very weird world if your "Joe Blogges" are gathering
around and bullshitting to each-other about how safe their cars are....
Do they watch the V8s and rave about what ANCAP ratings Skaifey's car
has and how he blew Winterbottom's crash-test results "to the weeds man!"?
I can't imagine any person in my family or workplace who would even be
able to quote the ANCAP rating of the car they drive (or the car they
wish they drove).
I think you're imagining it.
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
> Atheist Chaplain wrote:
>> So are you such an elite driver that you can avoid getting blind sided by a
>> P plater in Dads Land Cruiser on full tilt??
>
> And if he isn't, he'd also need to make sure he's driving something
> considerably bigger and heavier than the fuckwit who hits him. :)
>
I've got an even better procedure; I don't let them hit me.
--
Elsie.
Scotty
"Athol" <athol_S...@idl.net.au> wrote in message
news:12576505...@idlwebserver.idl.com.au...
: John_H <john...@inbox.com> wrote:
:
: > And why pick on the Chinese? Until very recently you could pay $80k
: > for a fully optioned Landcruiser ute with most "safety features",
: > including airbags, not even available as an option. Maybe you still
: > can.
: Pretty sure that ABS and SRS airbags became standard equipment on the
: '09 model. The entire dash is new this year.
:
: One story I heard was that a lot of mine sites were specifying dual
: airbags as part of minimum spec for light vehicles on site, and there
: were increasing numbers of sites changing to patrols because of the
: lack of airbags on landcruisers. Toyota wanted to claw back their
: share of the mine market, as it is quite lucrative...
:
: --
: Athol
: <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
: I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.
For the life of me I cant figure out why?!?!?!?!?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcRso-wu_fU
;o)
John_H
>"Athol" <athol_S...@idl.net.au> wrote in message
>news:12576505...@idlwebserver.idl.com.au...
>:
>: airbags as part of minimum spec for light vehicles on site, and there
>: were increasing numbers of sites changing to patrols because of the
>: lack of airbags on landcruisers. Toyota wanted to claw back their
>: share of the mine market, as it is quite lucrative...
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcRso-wu_fU
>
>;o)
LOL, that's the funniest thing I've seen or heard all day!
Especially since there's currently a heap of those dump trucks for
sale throughout the mining areas in CQ. Haven't yet asked about the
prices, since I hadn't previously thought of a use for one. :))
--
John H
XR8 Sprintless
>
> LOL, that's the funniest thing I've seen or heard all day!
>
> Especially since there's currently a heap of those dump trucks for
> sale throughout the mining areas in CQ. Haven't yet asked about the
> prices, since I hadn't previously thought of a use for one. :))
>
I was thinking it would make a good shopping cart to take to the local
supermarket. It would fix the bastards that hit your car then do a drive
off in a hurry. Mind you it would be a bit of a bastard to park in the
undercover car park! ;-)
F Murtz
> Clocky wrote:
>> "Lars Chance" <lars....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> So is that really a factor for you? Would you *genuinely* spend
>>> another $2 or $4k to get another ANCAP star?!?!
>>> (And is that your major interest when comparing cars?)
>>>
>>> I'm well aware that the Govts (and the auto associations) have pushed
>>> for these things but I very very seriously doubt that the general
>>> public gives more than a flying duck about them!
>>>
>>
>> Who do you think the government and auto associations represent?
>> People care, or else we would all be driving zero star rated crap on
>> the road.
> Hah ha! (And Governments are here to help you too!)
> Did you know that "gullible" isn't even in the Oxford dictionary?
My oxford,
> gullible / / adj.
easily persuaded or deceived; credulous.
gullibility / / n.
gullibly adv.
[gull2 + -ible]
F Murtz
newspapers. The reality is that the average person never has life
threatening accidents in their lifetime yet they think they are in
imminent danger of doing so because of indoctrination.
In fourty odd years I have a few bingles once even rolled a hilux
(without a seat belt and no damage to me)
My father had only one accident causing broken bones,(collar bone) and
it was caused by the seat belt(hit from side in his door)
If you do have a hit brick wall type accident then better vehicles and
seat belts are the go but the percentage of this happening are a lot
less than general perception
Lars Chance
> General public (sheeple) believe anything they are fed by govt's and
> newspapers. The reality is that the average person never has life
> threatening accidents in their lifetime yet they think they are in
> imminent danger of doing so because of indoctrination.
> In fourty odd years I have a few bingles once even rolled a hilux
> (without a seat belt and no damage to me)
> My father had only one accident causing broken bones,(collar bone) and
> it was caused by the seat belt(hit from side in his door)
> If you do have a hit brick wall type accident then better vehicles and
> seat belts are the go but the percentage of this happening are a lot
> less than general perception
>
Good point but I wasn't saying that you won't crash. I was just saying
that "crashability" is a very minor consideration.
Some people here seem to believe that it's a major consideration but I
reckon they're bullshitting.
What's your experience? Have you or anyone you know ever chosen a car
primarily because of it's crash-test performance?
What if that car cost 10%, 20%, 30% more?
In my experience that's a big fat NO.
--
Elsie.
jonz
whooo hoooo, sockit to em bro....:^)))))))))))))))).....
>
--
jonz
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." - Gene
Spafford,1992
jonz
would be good for conveying the copious amounts of bullshit you
produce...(hint..buy two)
Atheist Chaplain
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
what a maroon................
Atheist Chaplain
--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ." Gandhi
you must be strangly deluded if you think that was hysterical :-)
> You must live in a very weird world if your "Joe Blogges" are gathering
> around and bullshitting to each-other about how safe their cars are....
> Do they watch the V8s and rave about what ANCAP ratings Skaifey's car has
> and how he blew Winterbottom's crash-test results "to the weeds man!"?
you really are a clueless twonk, do you even understand the concept of an
*accident* and even your average drooling imbecile knows that the V8's don't
have ANCAP ratings so where did that lame analogy even come from.
> I can't imagine any person in my family or workplace who would even be
> able to quote the ANCAP rating of the car they drive (or the car they wish
> they drove).
> I think you're imagining it.
I think your so focused on being right your just going to ignore millions of
dollars of market research in the vain hope that it will just go away,
trying to equate everyone else with your narrow and ill informed opinions
doesn't make you right, in this case it makes you a mouth breathing retard,
but hey if you want to keep that out there on display, its your prerogative
:-)
>
> --
> Elsie.
Noddy
"D Walford" <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:007f6dfa$0$26907$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> Depends on what aspect of "safety" we are talking about, I don't care all
> that much about airbags, traction control, stability control etc but I
> would be concerned driving a vehicle that had such poor structural
> integrity that it folded in on me in a crash.
Personally I couldn't care less. Having ridden motorcycles for many years
even the very worst car on the road offers significantly better crash
protection by comparison to any bike.
I also don't put a lot of stock in safety rating numbers as I don't think
they're indicative of how safe a car truly is. You can have a car with the
very best structural integrity on the planet and it won't get a five star
rating unless it has stability control, and stability control won't do dick
to protect you if you're involved in a prang.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> I've got an even better procedure; I don't let them hit me.
Oddly enough, I used to think that being on a bike I was quick and nimble
enough to avoid trouble and stay scratch & dent free.
That theory got canned in a big hurry when some silly old fucking pensioner
who couldn't drive a tent peg up a cat's arse with a 10 pound sledge hammer
sailed through a stop sign and collected me, leaving me with a broken back
and pelvis, lost teeth, fractured ribs and jaw, broken wrist and ankle and
enough lost skin to make a truck tarpaulin.
I can clearly remember flying through the air for around 60 feet or so at
around 70km/h taking in the scenery of Main street Kilmore while I had a
quick re-evaluation of my theory, and right before I hit the parked car I
concluded that my theory was complete bullshit and this was _going_to_hurt_.
Not surprisingly, it did. Lots.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
XR8 Sprintless
> Oddly enough, I used to think that being on a bike I was quick and nimble
> enough to avoid trouble and stay scratch & dent free.
>
> That theory got canned in a big hurry when some silly old fucking pensioner
> who couldn't drive a tent peg up a cat's arse with a 10 pound sledge hammer
> sailed through a stop sign and collected me, leaving me with a broken back
> and pelvis, lost teeth, fractured ribs and jaw, broken wrist and ankle and
> enough lost skin to make a truck tarpaulin.
>
> I can clearly remember flying through the air for around 60 feet or so at
> around 70km/h taking in the scenery of Main street Kilmore while I had a
> quick re-evaluation of my theory, and right before I hit the parked car I
> concluded that my theory was complete bullshit and this was _going_to_hurt_.
>
> Not surprisingly, it did. Lots.
I witnessed a female postie get hit by a 4wd that went through a stop
sign a number of years ago. I can still vividly remember her flying
about 12 feet in the air straight up and the helmet coming off her head
and flying off to the side. Stopped just past the scene and walked back
to find her with pretty serious injuries. She lived probably helped by
the fact there was an emergency doctor in the car behind me and he
started her care immediately on the side of the road. She had multiple
broken ribs, broken pelvis, head injuries, ruptured spleen and a broken
arm. Punctured lungs as well meant that she was basically moaning as we
turned her gently on her good side to help her to breathe. She was
bleeding from the ears and it was bloody horrible. She had her lights on
and had a yellow shirt on, but this guy just took off without seeing her.
I was called to court about seven years later as they attempted to
determine what compensation she should get. Biggest problem they had was
trying to find me as the cop who did the report had left the force and
no-one could read his writing in his notebook. Eventually I was
contacted by a private investigator and pointed him in the direction of
another witness who I knew the address of as he lived next to a girl i
was trying to date at the time. I wasn't needed in court after his
testimony left no doubt that the 4wd driver was at fault.
On another note, I've just flown home after spending most of the week in
Brisbane organising and attending my fathers funeral. The traffic in
Brisbane is bloody crazy. i had a bus do a kamikaze on me and pull out
from a stop as I was alongside with his indicator not being changed
until after I quickly moved into another lane. Thankfully I knew there
was no-one beside me but this arsehole did not even check his mirrors. I
was level with his rear wheels as he moved out. The gateway is a carpark
after 4pm heading north. What a shambles.
Clocky
If all other factors were equal and the only difference was the star safety
rating, the Volvo would outsell the Hyundai.
Noddy
> Good point but I wasn't saying that you won't crash. I was just saying
> that "crashability" is a very minor consideration.
It may be for *you*, but it certainly isn't for others. For what it's worth,
it doesn't rate highly for me either.
> Some people here seem to believe that it's a major consideration but I
> reckon they're bullshitting.
There's no doubt that it is for some people.
Interestingly, Hyundai have a "safety package" on the Getz that's optional,
which I think includes ABS and ESP, and it costs around 1100 bucks or so.
Uptake on this option has been *very* low, with less than 5% of cars being
so equipped. What you make of that is entirely up to you, but to me it
suggests little more than people who buy a Getz are looking for budget
priced "no frills" transport.
> What's your experience? Have you or anyone you know ever chosen a car
> primarily because of it's crash-test performance?
> What if that car cost 10%, 20%, 30% more?
> In my experience that's a big fat NO.
I've never bought a car based on it's crash performance record, and I don't
know anyone else who has either, but that's not to say that "safety" isn't
an important consideration for some when it comes to choosing a vehicle, and
in particular the individual's perception of safety as opposed to how "safe"
the vehicle actually is.
I would expect the overwhelming majority of large 4wd's in suburbia are
owned by people who *think* they're a safer option than a regular sedan, and
I know 3 or 4 people who own Land Cruisers purely for this reason alone.
They believe, and with some merit, that if they're involved in a collision
with a regular car they'll be better protected in the large and heavy
Cruiser than the people in whatever it is that hits them (or they hit) will
be. A Camry is probably a *far* safer car than a Land Cruiser for daily
driving duties but if I had to choose to be in either if they were about to
pile into each other at speed I'd take the Cruiser any day thanks.
The downside to this perception of safety theory is that these people have
to drive around suburbia in Land Cruisers, and that definitely ain't fun.
They're horrendous on fuel, they handle like drunk bulls on ice, they weigh
about as much as a Sherman tank and take around the same distance to stop
and they have a propensity to roll over easily and offer their occupants
fuck all in terms of protection when they do. Still, when they run up the
arse of an Echo on the freeway they won't get their hair mussed.
If the truth be known they'd probably be far safer in something like a Honda
Accord, plus enjoy the benefits of not having to drive a truck to be "safe",
but they can't get their heads around that and I suspect they're not the
only ones either.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Clocky
"Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4af69e6d$0$92587$c30e...@exi-reader.telstra.net...
>
> "D Walford" <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
> news:007f6dfa$0$26907$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>
>> Depends on what aspect of "safety" we are talking about, I don't care all
>> that much about airbags, traction control, stability control etc but I
>> would be concerned driving a vehicle that had such poor structural
>> integrity that it folded in on me in a crash.
>
> Personally I couldn't care less. Having ridden motorcycles for many years
> even the very worst car on the road offers significantly better crash
> protection by comparison to any bike.
>
> I also don't put a lot of stock in safety rating numbers as I don't think
> they're indicative of how safe a car truly is. You can have a car with the
> very best structural integrity on the planet
The Chinese stuff has the worst structural integrity and the lowest ANCAP
safety ratings... that is more then just a coincidence I would suspect.
and it won't get a five star
> rating unless it has stability control, and stability control won't do
> dick to protect you if you're involved in a prang.
>
If it helps avoid a prang, it's a pretty important safety measure.
D Walford
> D Walford wrote:
>> Lars Chance wrote:
>
>>> I can honestly say that "crash safety" would be my very LEAST
>>> consideration when buying a ute (or even a passenger car).
>>> It would be one below "colour", two below "resale" and not even in
>>> the same same continent as "bang for buck [both performance and
>>> fruit]", "comfort and suitability", "parts availability,
>>> interchangeability & cost", "running cost [inc. fuel]" etc.
>>>
>>> If I thought I needed to be protected from crashing and
>>> crash-injuries I wouldn't drive.
>>>
>> The main reason those vehicles fare so badly in those tests is their
>> poor structural integrity which IMO is something to be worried about.
>> I don't much care to rely on electronic gadgetry to save me but I
>> wouldn't drive something so badly designed/built that it crumpled like
>> a beer can when it hits anything.
>>
> [shrug] You wouldn't drive an E-Type Jag, a Ferrari Daytona or a Datsun
> Fairlady?
I certainly wouldn't mind an E type.
> A Mercedes Gull-Wing, an Austin Healey Sprite,
Drove an AH Sprite for 4 yrs.
a Karmann Ghia or an old
> Mini Cooper S (they WERE death-traps!)
> I reckon the Great-Wall would shit all over any of them for crash-safety!
Possibly but the difference is this is 2009 and when the cars you
mention were built crash safety hadn't been thought of.
Cars need to be built to a reasonable safety standard and at this point
in time Chinese vehicles are still a long way from that.
In 2009 the road toll in Vic is about one quarter of what it was 30 or
so yrs ago despite a huge increase in traffic volumes and part of that
is due to much safer cars.
> Not that I care either-way though; I don't intend to crash any of them.
>
Neither does anyone else and IMO well trained drivers can avoid most
crashes but you can't 100% control the actions of other drivers and even
the very best drivers have the occasional crash.
Like I said before I don't care all that much for electronic safety but
no thanks to a car whose structure is sub standard.
Daryl
Clocky
>F Murtz wrote:
>
>> General public (sheeple) believe anything they are fed by govt's and
>> newspapers. The reality is that the average person never has life
>> threatening accidents in their lifetime yet they think they are in
>> imminent danger of doing so because of indoctrination.
>> In fourty odd years I have a few bingles once even rolled a hilux
>> (without a seat belt and no damage to me)
>> My father had only one accident causing broken bones,(collar bone) and it
>> was caused by the seat belt(hit from side in his door)
>> If you do have a hit brick wall type accident then better vehicles and
>> seat belts are the go but the percentage of this happening are a lot less
>> than general perception
> >
> Good point but I wasn't saying that you won't crash. I was just saying
> that "crashability" is a very minor consideration.
> Some people here seem to believe that it's a major consideration but I
> reckon they're bullshitting.
It's not a question of major consideration, but if it's the choice between
two vehicles and it's the only difference, it will be the clincher.
Clocky
Clearly what is being discussed is beyond your level of understanding. You
drive a Proton, enough said...
D Walford
I don't give much thought to the ratings either but did you watch the
video clip of the Great Wall crash test posted earlier in the thread?
The drivers area was severely damaged and a driver would be unlikely to
have survived unlike a similar crash in a better built vehicle without
relying on airbags etc.
I'm sure in a well engineered vehicle like a MB the driver and
passengers would walk away without any serious injuries but in the Great
Wall the only place they would be going would be to a morgue.
Daryl
Daryl
Clocky
"Deevo" <dee...@NOSPAMbigpond.com> wrote in message
news:CNpJm.53078$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> "Clocky" <not...@happen.com> wrote in message
> news:0304e356$0$1269$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>> All that cheapness comes at a price...
>>
>> http://www.themotorreport.com.au/43501/proton-jumbuck-great-wall-utes-perform-poorly-in-ancap-crash-safety-tests/
>
> concerns raised about them too. One of the manufacturers' representatives
> did make an excellent point at the time though, the most important safety
> component is the "nut behind the wheel".
>
> In short, all of these safety items are little more than patchwork
> solutions that encourage slack attitudes toward driving. More lives would
> be saved by people actually learning to drive properly than by any amount
> of airbags. Of course that wouldn't be a politically popular move and
> therefore is unlikely to be addressed by governments. Much easier to
> blame "unsafe cars" for the road toll.
> --
Since you can't control other fuckwits on the road nor the unusual events
can can lead up to a crash, the best you can do is have the extra safety
features.
Noddy
> The Chinese stuff has the worst structural integrity and the lowest ANCAP
> safety ratings... that is more then just a coincidence I would suspect.
Absolutely.
In my opinion it has everything to do with the Chinese being about 25 years
behind the rest of the world in terms of being able to produce quality
materials and turning them into a useful product.
>If it helps avoid a prang, it's a pretty important safety measure.
It's a useful tool, sure, but when you're running cars into concrete
barriers to measure their crash test performance it's an irrelevant feature
that somehow figures in the results.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
"XR8 Sprintless" <xr8_s...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:00802ada$0$26891$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> On another note, I've just flown home after spending most of the week in
> Brisbane organising and attending my fathers funeral. The traffic in
> Brisbane is bloody crazy. i had a bus do a kamikaze on me and pull out
> from a stop as I was alongside with his indicator not being changed until
> after I quickly moved into another lane. Thankfully I knew there was
> no-one beside me but this arsehole did not even check his mirrors. I was
> level with his rear wheels as he moved out. The gateway is a carpark after
> 4pm heading north. What a shambles.
It's certainly a shit-hole that I hate going anywhere near.
My condolences about your father.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
XR8 Sprintless
> It's certainly a shit-hole that I hate going anywhere near.
>
> My condolences about your father.
>
Thanks, it was at least mercifully quick in the end. He had emphysema
and could no longer breathe even though they were putting heaps of
oxygen into him. His organs collapsed and he passed within an hour.
We had a wonderful service for him where his love of life and humour
were brought forth.
One funny story that was related about him was when he and mum were
courting and they went to a movie with Elizabeth Taylor in it. ET was
apparently balling her eyes out and her leading man couldn't find a
hanky or tissue to dry her eyes. After a couple of minutes of this the
old man yelled out 'For crying out loud use the tail of your bloody
shirt' The cinema erupted in laughter except some bird at the front
yelled out 'Shut Up'. Mum dragged dad down to the local cafe to have a
drink and as they went to leave the door handle fell off in his hands.
He was a funny bastard at times, but it was horrible to see him in the
last couple of months as he tried to breathe.
I'd been down a month ago when he was moved into a nursing home as mum
could no longer look after him at home. I'm glad I made the effort.
My wife wanted me to move back there a couple of years ago. When she
came down to join me for the funeral she decided that it was no longer a
good idea. I picked her and my sister up at the airport as their planes
arrived a couple of hours apart it was easier to stay there. We left the
airport at 3.45pm and got to Redcliffe around 4.45pm. It normally only
takes about 30 mins. We were lucky to be doing 5 - 10km/h in places on a
freeway where you are supposed to be able to do 100! People cannot merge
properly and have no idea how to maintain a steady flow of traffic.
us...@domain.invalid
>
> On another note, I've just flown home after spending most of the week in
> Brisbane organising and attending my fathers funeral.
I am sorry to hear that
my condolences
The traffic in
> Brisbane is bloody crazy. i had a bus do a kamikaze on me and pull out
> from a stop as I was alongside with his indicator not being changed
> until after I quickly moved into another lane. Thankfully I knew there
> was no-one beside me but this arsehole did not even check his mirrors. I
> was level with his rear wheels as he moved out.
I had a bus last year cross 3 lanes behine ripping off the rear bumper
and I had to sue for repairs as they tried to blame me for failure to
give way ( fsking bullshite)
The gateway is a carpark
> after 4pm heading north. What a shambles.
>
the additional lanes are due to begin construction shortly about 20
years after they were needed and the extra gateway bridge will open as
well , why is why I wont use pay roads as rat running is much faster now .
Next time take a cab through the city :)
will certainly wake you up
Noddy
> I don't give much thought to the ratings either but did you watch the
> video clip of the Great Wall crash test posted earlier in the thread?
I did, and there's a better one that's been on Youtube for a few years now
with one of their earlier "Territory" style vehicles.
> The drivers area was severely damaged and a driver would be unlikely to
> have survived unlike a similar crash in a better built vehicle without
> relying on airbags etc.
Absolutely.
> I'm sure in a well engineered vehicle like a MB the driver and passengers
> would walk away without any serious injuries but in the Great Wall the
> only place they would be going would be to a morgue.
The crash test performance displayed in the clip was appallingly bad, but
then you get what you pay for. I'd imagine the people who would buy the
things wouldn't be concerned about it.
Personally I wouldn't buy one, and it's crash test performance would have
little to do with that. I simply wouldn't buy one for the same reason I
wouldn't buy a Tatra or anything else made in India, as they're likely to be
fucking great heaps of unreliable shit.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> One funny story that was related about him was when he and mum were
> courting and they went to a movie with Elizabeth Taylor in it. ET was
> apparently balling her eyes out and her leading man couldn't find a hanky
> or tissue to dry her eyes. After a couple of minutes of this the old man
> yelled out 'For crying out loud use the tail of your bloody shirt' The
> cinema erupted in laughter except some bird at the front yelled out 'Shut
> Up'. Mum dragged dad down to the local cafe to have a drink and as they
> went to leave the door handle fell off in his hands. He was a funny
> bastard at times, but it was horrible to see him in the last couple of
> months as he tried to breathe.
It's never pleasant.
I sat beside my old man every day for three weeks while he lay in the
paliative care unit of the Alfred Hospital dying of lung cancer and it was
incredibly hard to do. When the end came it was a relief for everyone
(including Dad) but it was difficult to see a bloke who was so strong and
fit for his age realise that he was losing the battle and could do nothing
about it.
On the plus side there were over 500 people at his service which was a
fantastic send off, and I got to hear similar stories to those of your
father that made the whole thing more of a celebration than anything else.
One of the really cool things a long time friend of his had done was had an
old photo of Dad that I'd never seen before blown up into a huge poster size
that sat as the backdrop for the service. It's a great black and white photo
taken of the old man when he was around 25 or so wearing (according to his
mate) a purple suit with matching hat and spats standing with one foot on
the running board of his '36 6 wheeel equipped Buick. Apparently the photo
was taken early one Saturday evening after they'd knocked off work and were
about to head off to the local dance hall to hunt for talent.
It's a great picture and I've got it here to get framed and hang up in my
office when the new house is built.
> I'd been down a month ago when he was moved into a nursing home as mum
> could no longer look after him at home. I'm glad I made the effort.
I'm sure you are.
> My wife wanted me to move back there a couple of years ago. When she came
> down to join me for the funeral she decided that it was no longer a good
> idea. I picked her and my sister up at the airport as their planes arrived
> a couple of hours apart it was easier to stay there. We left the airport
> at 3.45pm and got to Redcliffe around 4.45pm. It normally only takes about
> 30 mins. We were lucky to be doing 5 - 10km/h in places on a freeway where
> you are supposed to be able to do 100! People cannot merge properly and
> have no idea how to maintain a steady flow of traffic.
We've got friends in North Lakes which is about 40 minutes or so out of
Brissy, and we spend a couple of weeks or so in each other's company once a
year alternating between their place and ours. We spent ten days or so in
August up at their place and they'll be down in June or July next year once
our new house is up and giving us a hand to so the concrete driveways.
I always *hate* going up there just because of the road system. People
complain about Victoria, but I'm quite convinced those who do have *never*
driven in QLD. I'd rather spend a month doing hook turns in Melbourne than
spend 5 minutes on the Gateway.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Deevo
But that's the point. Why can't you control the other fuckwits on the road?
Is it the said fuckwits or the fuckwits in positions of authority that
granted them licences in the first place?
When I got my motorcycle licence many years back the instructor I went
through used to insist on three things from his students.
1. At least one lesson on the open highway.
2. At least one lesson at night.
3. After you got your licence you attend an advanced riding course at the
then National Safety Council centre in Perth.
The latter was closed down about twenty years ago due to government funding
cutbacks but I can honestly say that techniques I learned from going through
that course have saved my life on at least three occasions since.
Instead of funding more speed cameras and the like would it not save more
lives if a higher standard of driver education and testing were put into
place? Of course it wouldn't be a popular move as many of the previously
mentioned "fuckwits" consider a drivers licence their right but still having
better and more capable drivers on our road would constitute a far more
effective way of reducing the road toll.
--
Deevo
Geraldton Western Australia
John_H
>
>If it helps avoid a prang, it's a pretty important safety measure.
It's only an important safety measure if there's a measurable positive
effect on the crash statistics!
Stability control is impressive from the little bit I've seen of it,
to the point where it will do as well or better than any driver in
most hazardous situations... far better in some. But, what will be
the ultimate effect on the crash statistics when experienced drivers
avoid most of those situations to start with?
And if you want to give yourself a fright let an inexperienced driver
loose with stability control on a gravel road and watch 'em go.
Chances are they'll get from A to B in half the time as without... and
with complete confidence. How's that likely to impact on the
statistics?
Look at ABS. It's been around for yonks and there's those who've been
spruiking its safety aspects for just as long. AFAIK the statistical
proof of its contribution to any reduction in the road toll (or crash
rates) still manages to evade the spruikers!
OTOH the positive contribution of passive safety measures... vehicle
mass, seat belts and airbags are well proven and highly significant.
The reason is that most drivers don't rely on active safety measures
to avoid a prang, they simply drive according to their vehicle's
capabilities (and drive a little harder if it's more capable). If
they do happen to crash it's the passive devices that save 'em.
--
John H
Albm&ctd
says...
> Personally I couldn't care less. Having ridden motorcycles for many years
> even the very worst car on the road offers significantly better crash
> protection by comparison to any bike.
>
vegetable tin.
Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html
Albm&ctd
says...
rules, that would be 7-8 flashes at 1.5cps. They can't just pull out.
jonz
yeah? just watchem........
>
> Al
Scotty
"Athol" <athol_S...@idl.net.au> wrote in message
news:12577262...@idlwebserver.idl.com.au...
: Scotty <sco...@warmmail.com> wrote:
: > "Athol" <athol_S...@idl.net.au> wrote:
:
: > : Pretty sure that ABS and SRS airbags became standard equipment on the
: > : '09 model. The entire dash is new this year.
:
: > : One story I heard was that a lot of mine sites were specifying dual
: > : airbags as part of minimum spec for light vehicles on site, and there
: > : were increasing numbers of sites changing to patrols because of the
: > : lack of airbags on landcruisers. Toyota wanted to claw back their
: > : share of the mine market, as it is quite lucrative...
:
: > For the life of me I cant figure out why?!?!?!?!?!?
:
: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcRso-wu_fU
:
: LOL. Why wouldn't Toyota want a part of the action? The vehicle
: manufacturer and dealer make their money from the sale, and they
: saved on warranty costs on that vehicle. :-p
:
: --
: Athol
: <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
: I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.
I wonder what they did with the one in the video. Id love to take it to the dealer and explain that
"It feels a little flat this one...."
Clocky
<snip>
>
> On another note, I've just flown home after spending most of the week
> in Brisbane organising and attending my fathers funeral.
Sincere condolences mate.
XR8 Sprintless
was seeing my cousin who is 35 with young kids and has emphysema almost
as bad as my father had. Sorry to say but smoking has stuffed her life
completely. Her mother smoked like a chimney as well.
Dad paid a horrible price for it, with having to be on oxygen 24 hours a
day for the last couple of years. He had smoked for 45 years.
Although saddened by his passing, I'm glad that his suffering is over.
hippo
ABS may make significant differences to the road toll when it gets through
people's heads that the biggest advantage it offers is the ability to both
brake and steer similarity. Many journos and presenters still bang on
about 'reduced stopping distances' and nothing else. If the people
perceived to be experts by the great unwashed can't communicate what the
system does best, how do they expert 'Mrs Bowler in her Corolla' (she
traded in the Morris Minor, ok!) to know?
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
hippo
>
> John_H wrote:
> > Atheist Chaplain wrote:
> >> So are you such an elite driver that you can avoid getting blind sided by
a
> >> P plater in Dads Land Cruiser on full tilt??
> >
> > And if he isn't, he'd also need to make sure he's driving something
> > considerably bigger and heavier than the fuckwit who hits him. :)
> >
>
> I've got an even better procedure; I don't let them hit me.
>
Alien Force Fields.... wonderful things!
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
Noddy
"hippo" <am9obmhAc2hvYWwubmV0LmF1@REGISTERED_USER_usenet.com.au> wrote in
message news:hd94pt$q14$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> ABS may make significant differences to the road toll when it gets through
> people's heads that the biggest advantage it offers is the ability to both
> brake and steer similarity. Many journos and presenters still bang on
> about 'reduced stopping distances' and nothing else. If the people
> perceived to be experts by the great unwashed can't communicate what the
> system does best, how do they expert 'Mrs Bowler in her Corolla' (she
> traded in the Morris Minor, ok!) to know?
Exactly.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
John_H
>John_H wrote:
>>
>> Look at ABS. It's been around for yonks and there's those who've been
>> spruiking its safety aspects for just as long. AFAIK the statistical
>> proof of its contribution to any reduction in the road toll (or crash
>> rates) still manages to evade the spruikers!
>
>people's heads that the biggest advantage it offers is the ability to both
>brake and steer similarity. Many journos and presenters still bang on
>about 'reduced stopping distances' and nothing else. If the people
>perceived to be experts by the great unwashed can't communicate what the
>system does best, how do they expert 'Mrs Bowler in her Corolla' (she
>traded in the Morris Minor, ok!) to know?
The main problem IMHO is you need to completely change the way you've
been conditioned to use the brakes... ie teach an old dog a complex
new trick. It also takes a considerable amount of practice, which
tends be frowned upon if you do it on a public road.
Another problem is the vast difference in the effectiveness of ABS on
a variety of surfaces in different cars. If, like me, you drive a
number of different cars, most of which don't have ABS, it's probably
not even desirable to condition yourself to use ABS to its best
advantage.
I'd also wonder how many drivers are out there that don't even know
what the ABS feels like until they manage to activate it in emergency,
which is also likely to include the more cautious ones who tend to
survive by avoiding hazardous situations. The reckless drivers are
the ones more likely to rely on their ABS to save 'em IMO. Neither
group are likely to improve the statistics by having it.
--
John H
Noddy
"John_H" <john...@inbox.com> wrote in message
news:422hf5henocqpc04e...@4ax.com...
> I'd also wonder how many drivers are out there that don't even know
> what the ABS feels like until they manage to activate it in emergency,
> which is also likely to include the more cautious ones who tend to
> survive by avoiding hazardous situations. The reckless drivers are
> the ones more likely to rely on their ABS to save 'em IMO. Neither
> group are likely to improve the statistics by having it.
Agreed.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
hippo
John_H
>
>ABS may make significant differences to the road toll when it gets through
>people's heads that the biggest advantage it offers is the ability to both
>brake and steer similarity. Many journos and presenters still bang on
>about 'reduced stopping distances' and nothing else. If the people
>perceived to be experts by the great unwashed can't communicate what the
>system does best, how do they expert 'Mrs Bowler in her Corolla' (she
>traded in the Morris Minor, ok!) to know?
Did you happen to watch Top Gear on SBS last night?
Clarkson's Volvo with ABS was a shoe-in for their 100kph brake test.
Hammond locked both front wheels on his non ABS Rover for the entire
length of his stop. I'd have thought him to be a much better driver
than that... or is he simply conditioned to having ABS?
--
John H
hippo
>
> Clocky wrote:
> > "Lars Chance" <lars....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:11cJm.52915$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >> Clocky wrote:
> >>>
With or without airbags, the bus and particularly the train, represent a
*far* lower per capita per Km death or injury risk than practically any
other form of land transport, so IMO that's just being a tad silly.
FWIW, my son's first L/P car came down to a choice between an immaculate
Kia Shuma or a pretty good early Mondeo for the not very much money he had
to buy it.
The dynamics, safety equipment and ratings swung it to the Mondeo. It's
now been traded, but it did its job well.
My daughter has an X3 Excel, which was the best thing she could afford. It
now has good tyres and a complete new suspension so it's as good as it
will ever be, but if I was forced to have a collision in one or the other,
it'd be the Ford.
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
hippo
> : John_H <john...@inbox.com> wrote:
> :
> : > And why pick on the Chinese? Until very recently you could pay $80k
> : > for a fully optioned Landcruiser ute with most "safety features",
> : > including airbags, not even available as an option. Maybe you still
> : > can.
> :
> : Pretty sure that ABS and SRS airbags became standard equipment on the
> : '09 model. The entire dash is new this year.
> :
> : One story I heard was that a lot of mine sites were specifying dual
> : airbags as part of minimum spec for light vehicles on site, and there
> : were increasing numbers of sites changing to patrols because of the
> : lack of airbags on landcruisers. Toyota wanted to claw back their
> : share of the mine market, as it is quite lucrative...
> :
> : Athol
> : <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
> : I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.
>
>
>
>
>
> ;o)
>
>
>
>
>
"SMIDSY!"
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
hippo
>
> "Clocky" <not...@happen.com> wrote in message
> news:03069b9a$0$1332$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> >
> > "Deevo" <dee...@NOSPAMbigpond.com> wrote in message
> > news:CNpJm.53078$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >> "Clocky" <not...@happen.com> wrote in message
> >> news:0304e356$0$1269$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> >>> All that cheapness comes at a price...
> >>>
No arguments there and I'm still here, relatively uninjured, but I've
still had a vehicle go seriously off road and roll 3 times after the
steering broke, avoided a brakelesss and fully laden steel truck coming
through a red light over a crest on my right at about 80Km/h. Mechanical
failures (or medical emergencies) can be
completely unexpected, as can their results.
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
Lars Chance
>
> With or without airbags, the bus and particularly the train, represent a
> *far* lower per capita per Km death or injury risk than practically any
> other form of land transport, so IMO that's just being a tad silly.
>
Far lower than three-fifths-of-fuck-all? Now *you're* being silly!
Just how many injury-causing crashes do you think average (normal)
drivers actually have?!!?)
>
> FWIW, my son's first L/P car came down to a choice between an immaculate
> Kia Shuma or a pretty good early Mondeo for the not very much money he had
> to buy it.
> The dynamics, safety equipment and ratings swung it to the Mondeo. It's
> now been traded, but it did its job well.
>
Did it; what sort of crash was it involved in?
(Or do you mean that the whole crash-worthiness consideration was
pointless because it wasn't needed?)
>
> My daughter has an X3 Excel, which was the best thing she could afford. It
> now has good tyres and a complete new suspension so it's as good as it
> will ever be, but if I was forced to have a collision in one or the other,
> it'd be the Ford.
>
Why on earth would you be forced to have a collision?! Only ANCAP
*force* cars to have collisions!
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
>
>> I've got an even better procedure; I don't let them hit me.
>
> enough to avoid trouble and stay scratch & dent free.
>
> That theory got canned in a big hurry when some silly old fucking pensioner
> who couldn't drive a tent peg up a cat's arse with a 10 pound sledge hammer
> sailed through a stop sign and collected me, leaving me with a broken back
> and pelvis, lost teeth, fractured ribs and jaw, broken wrist and ankle and
> enough lost skin to make a truck tarpaulin.
>
> I can clearly remember flying through the air for around 60 feet or so at
> around 70km/h taking in the scenery of Main street Kilmore while I had a
> quick re-evaluation of my theory, and right before I hit the parked car I
> concluded that my theory was complete bullshit and this was _going_to_hurt_.
>
60 feet of flying sounds like some pretty good air (and some pretty good
injuries) for a suburban-speed collision.
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
> "Lars Chance" <lars....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MJrJm.53122$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>> Atheist Chaplain wrote:
>>>> So are you such an elite driver that you can avoid getting blind
>>>> sided by a P plater in Dads Land Cruiser on full tilt??
>>>
>>> And if he isn't, he'd also need to make sure he's driving something
>>> considerably bigger and heavier than the fuckwit who hits him. :)
>>>
>>
>
> what a maroon................
>
Err; just how many massive injurious-crashes have you actually had?
None?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
what a moron................
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
>
> I think your so focused on being right your just going to ignore
> millions of dollars of market research in the vain hope that it will
> just go away, trying to equate everyone else with your narrow and ill
> informed opinions doesn't make you right, in this case it makes you a
> mouth breathing retard, but hey if you want to keep that out there on
> display, its your prerogative :-)
>
Heh heh; you're getting hysterical again.
Do you reckon your "millions of dollars of market research" would match
the millions Volvo wasted with it's "Bloody Volvo" campaign or the
millions Mitsubishi wasted making the Magna an unsellable fugly?
People do stupid things (look at your replies for an example).
Sure they'll mention it in the ad if they get a favourable rating but I
think you'll find that Toyota's 200 Killer-Wasps has generated 10 to 100
times more market interest than any ANCAP rating adverts ever have.
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
> "Lars Chance" <lars....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> When Volvo starts outselling Hyundai I might believe Joe-Public cares.
>>
>
> If all other factors were equal and the only difference was the star safety
> rating, the Volvo would outsell the Hyundai.
>
Perhaps; but only if they also had better colours and sexier-looking
girls in their adverts!
As I said before; safety *IS* a consideration; it's just a very very
minor one.
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
> I would expect the overwhelming majority of large 4wd's in suburbia are
> owned by people who *think* they're a safer option than a regular sedan, ....
>
OK; valid point. Yep; I know several people who have bought bigger cars
because they're "safer" too.
I was only thinking of equivalent vehicles.
--
Elsie.
Noddy
> If only you'd had a 5-star-rated safety-bike, eh?
If only.
> 60 feet of flying sounds like some pretty good air (and some pretty good
> injuries) for a suburban-speed collision.
Never been within 10 feet of a bike, huh? :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Lars Chance
> Lars Chance wrote:
>> D Walford wrote:
>>> ... I
>>> wouldn't drive something so badly designed/built that it crumpled
>>> like a beer can when it hits anything.
>>>
>> [shrug] You wouldn't drive an E-Type Jag, a Ferrari Daytona or a
>> Datsun Fairlady?
>
> I certainly wouldn't mind an E type.
>
>> A Mercedes Gull-Wing, an Austin Healey Sprite,
>
> Drove an AH Sprite for 4 yrs.
>
> a Karmann Ghia or an old
>> Mini Cooper S (they WERE death-traps!)
>> I reckon the Great-Wall would shit all over any of them for crash-safety!
>
> Possibly but the difference is this is 2009 and when the cars you
> mention were built crash safety hadn't been thought of.
> Cars need to be built to a reasonable safety standard and at this point
> in time Chinese vehicles are still a long way from that.
> In 2009 the road toll in Vic is about one quarter of what it was 30 or
> so yrs ago despite a huge increase in traffic volumes and part of that
> is due to much safer cars.
>
Irrelevant; you're just being a snob! You're quite happy to drive a
less-safe car in the right circumstances and, surprise surprise, so am I.
You just go to a whole lot more trouble trying to justify it to yourself
than I do.
>
>> Not that I care either-way though; I don't intend to crash any of them.
>>
> Neither does anyone else and IMO well trained drivers can avoid most
> crashes but you can't 100% control the actions of other drivers and even
> the very best drivers have the occasional crash.
> Like I said before I don't care all that much for electronic safety but
> no thanks to a car whose structure is sub standard.
>
But why spend all that money to "protect" yourself from such an
infinitessimally unlikely event when even something as crappy as the
Great-Wall has more protection than you've ever needed before?
Are that bad a driver? Fuck, wear a helmet and you'll increase your
survivability manifold if you're that worried !
I had one fairly major crash 30-odd years ago and I got a few bruises
and a cut face (in a '60s 4cyl Jap car) so I'd have to be an idiot
wasting money "protecting" myself.
(I've probably got a statistically higher chance of getting arse-raped!)
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
>> that "crashability" is a very minor consideration.
>> Some people here seem to believe that it's a major consideration but I
>> reckon they're bullshitting.
>
> It's not a question of major consideration, but if it's the choice between
> two vehicles and it's the only difference, it will be the clincher.
>
Very different to what we were discussing (unless you know of a 5-star
ANCAP 4WD dual-cab for $23k)
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
>> like the other one.
>>
>
> drive a Proton, enough said...
>
And you try to change the argument when you realise you are wrong.
I guess we all have our faults....
--
Elsie.
Lars Chance
> I don't give much thought to the ratings either but did you watch the
> video clip of the Great Wall crash test posted earlier in the thread?
> The drivers area was severely damaged and a driver would be unlikely to
> have survived unlike a similar crash in a better built vehicle without
> relying on airbags etc.
> I'm sure in a well engineered vehicle like a MB the driver and
> passengers would walk away without any serious injuries but in the Great
> Wall the only place they would be going would be to a morgue.
>
>
>
> Daryl
>
>
> Daryl
>
So what Daryl Daryl? I'm sure if you rode a motorbike into that that
crash-test you'd probably die, same as if you drove a 60s Mini, Healey
etc etc.
You buy a vehicle to do a job. If it does the job at 2/3rds the price
who gives a rats how it fares in areas you'll most-likely never use?
--
Elsie.
hippo
>
> hippo wrote:
>
> >
> > With or without airbags, the bus and particularly the train, represent a
> > *far* lower per capita per Km death or injury risk than practically any
> > other form of land transport, so IMO that's just being a tad silly.
> >
> Far lower than three-fifths-of-fuck-all? Now *you're* being silly!
> Just how many injury-causing crashes do you think average (normal)
> drivers actually have?!!?)
I'm frequently silly, but often serious too ;)
> >
>
> > FWIW, my son's first L/P car came down to a choice between an immaculate
> > Kia Shuma or a pretty good early Mondeo for the not very much money he had
> > to buy it.
> > The dynamics, safety equipment and ratings swung it to the Mondeo. It's
> > now been traded, but it did its job well.
> >
> Did it; what sort of crash was it involved in?
> (Or do you mean that the whole crash-worthiness consideration was
> pointless because it wasn't needed?)
No. I mean the dynamic package probably made it a better learner / p plate
car than many other things - much more competent and forgiving; so maybe
helping to avoid close encounters with other vehicles or the scenery.
> >
> > My daughter has an X3 Excel, which was the best thing she could afford. It
> > now has good tyres and a complete new suspension so it's as good as it
> > will ever be, but if I was forced to have a collision in one or the other,
> > it'd be the Ford.
> >
> Why on earth would you be forced to have a collision?! Only ANCAP
> *force* cars to have collisions!
>
Hippothetical scenario of course.
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
hippo
Sounds pretty normal unless whatever collected you stops you (like a van,
tree, wall, etc.) You're dealing with the potential energy of an object
weighing maybe 70-90Kg suddenly being released horizontally, or more
likely upwards, from a point above the ground. Depending on the launch
angle, the arc may extend a fair distance before gravity wins. Then it
just hurts - a lot.
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
Clocky
In your opinion.
Fast Freddy
> >
> So what Daryl Daryl? I'm sure if you rode a motorbike into that that
> crash-test you'd probably die, same as if you drove a 60s Mini, Healey
> etc etc.
> You buy a vehicle to do a job. If it does the job at 2/3rds the price
> who gives a rats how it fares in areas you'll most-likely never use?
>
exactly, this is a cheap work vehicle, don't give a stuff if doesn't
have ABS, airbags whatever, it would be used by the local tradies for
carrying their tools, lawn mowing gear etc, as long as it does the job
and is reliable.
Noddy
"hippo" <am9obmhAc2hvYWwubmV0LmF1@REGISTERED_USER_usenet.com.au> wrote in
message news:hdck0t$lv$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Sounds pretty normal unless whatever collected you stops you (like a van,
> tree, wall, etc.) You're dealing with the potential energy of an object
> weighing maybe 70-90Kg suddenly being released horizontally, or more
> likely upwards, from a point above the ground. Depending on the launch
> angle, the arc may extend a fair distance before gravity wins. Then it
> just hurts - a lot.
It certainly does.
I never actually measured the flying distance, but one of the Ambo's said it
was around 60 foot which isn't much more than three car lengths. If I'd just
flew straight out and landed on the road I'd probably have been less banged
up (assuming I didn't get run over by a car coming the other way) but I came
off at a slight angle and went straight into the back of a parked car where
I apparently caved in it's back window with my head and then flung sideways
to hit the power pole on the footpath beside it.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Atheist Chaplain
WOW quick to answer your own question there, maybe when your certificate of
Psychic reading finally arrives from the mail order school in the US you
will actually have a clue, but until then your just another ignorant twonk
:-)
Suggesting that your driving skill is such that you can detect and avoid
every idiot on the road as well as those genuine accidents suggests to me
that your barely out of high school or have a mental deficiency. Anyone with
at least a modicum of driving experience will admit that even the most
careful driver cannot predict when they will have an accident, all you can
do is prepare in advance to give yourself the best chance of survival, but
hey, if you want to be just another temporary Australian then go ahead, as
long as you don't take any of my family or friends with you.
--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ." Gandhi
Atheist Chaplain
so you admit there is still a chance that you might have an accident ??
Atheist Chaplain
and yet ANCAP ratings still make prime time news stories, I would put my
degree of "stupid" up against yours any day of the week, at least my
"stupid" hasn't been polluted by the levels of *ignorance* that yours has
:-)
Peoples perception of what is important evolve, the market evolves along
with them. The hot button for today is fuel economy so the Toyota "200
Killer Wasps" ad campaign would go down like a cheap hooker now days, maybe
you noticed they don't pursue that style of marketing now days, or are you
too fixated on driving like a granny so you can avoid other peoples cars
hitting you that you haven't noticed.
Atheist Chaplain
news:4af9715c$0$14866$c30e...@exi-reader.telstra.net...
from the sounds of it, our friend Elsie hasn't been around cars all that
much either :-)
Neil Gerace
> ABS may make significant differences to the road toll when it gets through
> people's heads that the biggest advantage it offers is the ability to both
> brake and steer similarity. Many journos and presenters still bang on
> about 'reduced stopping distances' and nothing else.
That only holds on tarmac, and even then, not always. A lot of fatals occur elsewhere than on tarmac roads, and ABS is a
hindrance on gravel.
hippo
Yes, I know. Calrence Street, Sydney, about 1986. Evening, wet road, no
traffic to speak of. A new S class comes barrelling Northwards and about
halfway along sees a cat nonchalantly crossing the road very slowly.
Hammers the brakes, nothing locks up and the car comes to a dead straight
stop some distance beyond the cat having run over it with probably all
four wheels.
A 'hindrance' on gravel? Complete PITA more like if you're actually
relying on it.
That's why the Quattro had an 'ABS Off' switch :)
The Outback should have one too :(
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
hippo
In an Aurion as if 180 of the killer wasps have been Morteined perhaps?
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
Atheist Chaplain
message news:hdfa3c$t5o$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
and most off road or dual purpose vehicle now days have ABS systems that
recognise dirt or gravel roads and respond accordingly.
I was in a C class Merc with a friend the other day and the back car park
area of his work is loose gravel, and him being a bit of a "lad" decided to
play as there were no other cars there at the time, the merc happily stopped
with locked up wheels, ABS had not been touched or turned off.
John_H
>
>and most off road or dual purpose vehicle now days have ABS systems that
>recognise dirt or gravel roads and respond accordingly.
>I was in a C class Merc with a friend the other day and the back car park
>area of his work is loose gravel, and him being a bit of a "lad" decided to
>play as there were no other cars there at the time, the merc happily stopped
>with locked up wheels, ABS had not been touched or turned off.
The best of the modern ABS systems can certainly achieve reasonable
stopping distances on gravel, but they don't allow you to steer (which
was Neil's point).
I can swing the wheel on my Outback from lock to lock under ABS on
corrugations or gravel with no response from the steering whatsoever
(exactly the same as with any car that doesn't have ABS).
The designer still only has the choice between an ABS system that
allows you to steer on gravel, or one that actually stops the car. :)
--
John H
hippo
..and at least in the OB, by the time you realise that you can't do the
former under heavy braking on gravel, a sudden stop and big crunch may
soon tell you that it's now too late to achieve the latter.
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
John_H
I remain conditioned to either steer or brake (but not at the same
time) and intend staying that way. :)
Either way, it still comes back to having to learn how to use ABS to
gain anything from it (or to avoid being embarrassed by it).
Compounded by the fact that no two makes, or model, of car are likely
to behave exactly the same.
Consequently it's essential to practice using the ABS under a range of
conditions lest there are any surprises in store. Just don't let Plod
catch you at it. :)
--
John H
F Murtz
> Neil Gerace wrote:
>> hippo wrote:
>>
>>> ABS may make significant differences to the road toll when it gets through
>>> people's heads that the biggest advantage it offers is the ability to both
>>> brake and steer similarity. Many journos and presenters still bang on
>>> about 'reduced stopping distances' and nothing else.
>> That only holds on tarmac, and even then, not always. A lot of fatals occur
> elsewhere than on tarmac roads, and ABS is a
>> hindrance on gravel.
>>
>>
>
> Yes, I know. Calrence Street, Sydney, about 1986. Evening, wet road, no
> traffic to speak of. A new S class comes barrelling Northwards and about
> halfway along sees a cat nonchalantly crossing the road very slowly.
> Hammers the brakes, nothing locks up and the car comes to a dead straight
> stop some distance beyond the cat having run over it with probably all
> four wheels.
A very long cat?
hippo
Well, both fronts and the left rear at least.
BTW, yes, that should be Clarence St. Thank you all for letting me off
nicely!
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
Albm&ctd
says...
never been game to throw a leg over one... let alone a mended broken leg.
It's probably another transvestite. Lots of them lately, must be a plague.
Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html
Albm&ctd
says...
big 3.