a silly question
nJm
better sports tourer to own:
a new M3
OR
a new R34 Skyline
I thought the Beemer would be far better, being a more traditional sports
car (powerful NA inline 6, RWD etc) but this twin-turbo 4x4 Nissan coupe
seems to go pretty well, but to me lacks in many areas.
suppose its all personal preference, but out of curiosity, who likes which
more and why?
:)
i know this is gonna spark a bit of a debate.
FWDP...@vrooooooooom.com
the potential for output is unimaginable... alot of people do these
up so it MAY be comparitively cheaper to mod them than say the M3.
Also of the similar year model, the M3 costs a shitloads more!!
plus it has been proven that skylines can be modded up to 1000+hp...
whereas I'm not sure if the M3 has... i dont see why it couldnt be
though...but i havent seen the proof.
but had you asked about the M5...well that would be a different story
:o)...vrooom!! gurgle gurgle
gurgle.....vroooooooooooooooooooooooooooom
BoganMan
better handling
RWD is more "fun"
more luxurious interior
BMW special owners' events
252kw from an NA 6 cyl
atec77
smooth , refined , balanced and conformable with impeccable manners..
not quite the same brash power but that thrill goes in the first 10
minutes to any one with some sense
G>
Forg
> the M3 hands down
...
It has more wank value ... probably keeps it's
value better, but as for the following;
...
> better handling
...
Are you sure?
...
> RWD is more "fun"
...
Skylines are rear-biased; you accelerate hard into
a turn, and you can get the back to step out, much
like a RWD car but with more power & grip.
...
> more luxurious interior
...
Are they? The E36 wasn't.
...
> BMW special owners' events
...
They might be worthwhile, yes.
...
> 252kw from an NA 6 cyl
...
So? It's the amount of power & how it's delivered;
who cares how it's made.
--
--
Forg! -DUH#6=- (Y1)
"...
this crazy Forg surrounds me
..."
[Live - "When Dolphins Cry"]
Gavin Cato
would have had the oppurtunity to drive both of these cars to give a proper
opinion, peoples thoughts on the two cars will be mostly influenced by
magazine/video/websites.
That said, I'd prefer the R34 because of the ease of extracting further
power from it, and for the attessa 4wd system.
I also think on a cosmetic basis the R34 looks a lot better - they look
fantastic in the flesh. HSV could take some tips from the GTR as to how to
make a car look.
Gav
PS
3rd Gen RX7's are better than both :-)
"nJm" <nospamfor:nickm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Tftg7.138923$Xr6.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Gavin Cato
> better handling
Thats a point for debate that could only really be settled with a direct car
comparison.
There was a R34 GTR (stock) at Wakefield park in NSW that ran a 1:10 on
street tyres (crappy falkens). If you know of the track that is a highly
impressive time, i.e. a integra type R with a excellent driver & slicks will
do a 1:14.
> RWD is more "fun"
But the skyline is rear drive, it just kicks the front in when required.
I've been in a R33 GTR for a pretty long run through some twisty roads and
it's awesome. Feels like RWD but you get the benefit of powering out like a
AWD car.
You say above that the BMW handles better but no doubt you say RWD is more
fun for hanging the tail out - but the car that puts it's power down the
most effectively will be the first out the corner.
> more luxurious interior
have you seen the inside of a r34? it's not really designed to be full of
leather and all that sort of rubbish but it's a bloody nice interior -
perfect for what the car is aimed at.
> BMW special owners' events
> 252kw from an NA 6 cyl
I'd actually put that as a bad point - because I'd be looking eventually to
extract more power from the motor and though I have no real knowledge of the
BMW 6 I'd be willing to put a fair amount on the R34 being a *lot* easier to
get more power from.
Gav
FWDP...@vrooooooooom.com
leave the HSVs as it is...big mutha muscle car looks 10 times better!!
dam they should have left the falcons as the XY shape too...
the GTR is quite ordinary looking. i.e. nothing special except for the
rear dish headlights... again... its a known thing that all research
has gone into the performance department rather than stylish looks on
the GTR...
On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:59:56 GMT, "Gavin Cato" <gc...@bigpond.net.au>
wrote:
Gavin Cato
you'll understand.
Gav
<FWDP...@Vrooooooooom.com> wrote in message
news:3b826968.1423233351@news...
BoganMan
> to extract more power from the motor and though I have no real knowledge
> of the BMW 6 I'd be willing to put a fair amount on the R34 being a *lot*
easier
> to get more power from.
easier pfft, i'd rather spend the little bit more time and money and get it
going much harder. oh, and something you learn pretty early on in Bimmer Modding
School is that their straight 6 is a FANtastic engine
i mean it's no camry, but ever since it's introduction in '79, the bmw 6 has
been recognised as an engine with almost unparalelled potential in the right
hands
252kw stock, imagine what one could do with some more performance parts added,
some dinan mods (www.dinanbmw.com) and then some forced induction. lethal
BoganMan
oh my god vroom!
this is possibly the single correct thought you've ever had about cars!!!
BoganMan
> value better, but as for the following;
it is a precision made european automobile, not some asian wank crap
> > better handling
> Are you sure?
i'd put money on it
> Skylines are rear-biased; you accelerate hard into
> a turn, and you can get the back to step out, much
> like a RWD car but with more power & grip.
i haven't driven all, i wouldn't know ;)
i'd like to hear more about this "rear bias" tho...
> > more luxurious interior
> Are they? The E36 wasn't.
I travel regularly in an E46
> > BMW special owners' events
> They might be worthwhile, yes.
believe me they are
wether you like wanky social wine functions or hardcore autocross meets, once
you buy a new bmw, you get treated like royalty
> So? It's the amount of power & how it's delivered;
> who cares how it's made.
i was more speaking the potential power that could be extracted from the donk,
quite in excess of the skyline i'd imagine
Whore
heheheh
BoganMan <jam...@GREEN-EGGS-AND-SPAMdingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:3b827981$0$20948$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
nJm
without turbos or superchargers.
Whore <new...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1hAg7.594$vI2....@ozemail.com.au...
Simmo@.
nJm <nospamfor:nickm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ssAg7.139184$Xr6.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Norbie
> > It has more wank value ... probably keeps it's
> > value better, but as for the following;
>
> it is a precision made european automobile, not some asian wank crap
You just flushed your credibility down the toilet with that comment.
> > > better handling
> > Are you sure?
>
> i'd put money on it
Really? That doesn't gel with your following comment...
> > Skylines are rear-biased; you accelerate hard into
> > a turn, and you can get the back to step out, much
> > like a RWD car but with more power & grip.
>
> i haven't driven all, i wouldn't know ;)
> i'd like to hear more about this "rear bias" tho...
So you know nothing about the Skyline, yet you claim the M3 will win "hands
down"? Sounds like your arguments are based entirely on Euro-elite wankery,
rather than logic.
> > So? It's the amount of power & how it's delivered;
> > who cares how it's made.
>
> i was more speaking the potential power that could be extracted from the
donk,
> quite in excess of the skyline i'd imagine
I would imagine quite the opposite. The RB26DETT is capable of scary power
outputs, which has been proven time and again by Japanese tuners. How many
semi-streetable M3's are doing 8 second quarter mile passes with the
original engine and drivetrain? This is relatively common for Skylines in
Japan.
Norbie.
Norbie
> > dam they should have left the falcons as the XY shape too...
>
> oh my god vroom!
> this is possibly the single correct thought you've ever had about cars!!!
I hope you're both kidding. The XY is a box on wheels with a few chrome
bits tacked on. You might as well claim that a Volvo 244GL is the pinnacle
of automotive styling!
Norbie.
Gavin Cato
it
> going much harder. oh, and something you learn pretty early on in Bimmer
Modding
> School is that their straight 6 is a FANtastic engine
I'm sure it is - but likewise the rb26 is one of the best 6's in the world.
Have you been in one?
> 252kw stock, imagine what one could do with some more performance parts
added,
> some dinan mods (www.dinanbmw.com) and then some forced induction. lethal
Likewise the skyline can put out pretty much whatever power you want - so
whats your point? :)
My point was that it is *easier* to get more from the skyline. You can get
to the 600hp mark *very* easily just by simple bolt ons.
From there it's just a question of who has the most money.
Gav
M@W8
news:3b825ef9.1420562310@news...
> skyline all the way dude..
>
> the potential for output is unimaginable... alot of people do these
> up so it MAY be comparitively cheaper to mod them than say the M3.
What if you don't want to modify them...?
Which is better straight "out of the box" for someone who just wants to
drive them?
Gavin Cato
Oh come off it - don't make yourself sound like such a idiot.
You sound like one of those "if it's not a v8 commodore it's a piece of
shit" sort of guy.
Who cares what country it came from? The fact is that japan has still
produced cars that are right up there in the handling stakes, like the NSX,
GTR, and of course RX7.
> i'd put money on it
Why would you put money on it though?
> i'd like to hear more about this "rear bias" tho...
It's called ATTESSA. All GTR's have it.
Basically the car generaly drives most of it's power to the rear wheels. It
has sensors that monitor the front wheels about 100 times per second for
traction loss. If it senses traction loss it directs torque to the front
wheels.
The car drives like a RWD car but you get the advantage of powering out
corners like a AWD car.
The system was improved greatly after the R32 (which took a little while to
kick in when it had traction loss).
> believe me they are
> wether you like wanky social wine functions or hardcore autocross meets,
once
> you buy a new bmw, you get treated like royalty
So you should with the price difference :)
> i was more speaking the potential power that could be extracted from the
donk,
> quite in excess of the skyline i'd imagine
But why do you imagine this? Do you think that jap motors are weak? It's
quite the opposite.
The rb26 is bloody strong. There is a R33 GTR in nsw that I know of that
dyno'd 440kw at the wheels (thats not a typo) on a 4WD dyno. And that is
with completely stock engine, just with larger turbo's, upgraded fuel system
and ECU etc.. The car has since run more power...
Likewise the 6 from the Toyota Supra (the 2jz) - very common for that car to
make 1000hp on stock internals - Craig Paisleys supra in the states was
making approx 800hp at the wheels and made several hundred full power runs
on the 1/4 mile (8's at 160mph) on completely stock internals until he ran
it into a wall.
these are not weak "jap crap" motors.
Gav
Gavin Cato
> bits tacked on. You might as well claim that a Volvo 244GL is the
pinnacle
> of automotive styling!
Hey forg would agree :)
Gav
M@W8
> > Skylines are rear-biased; you accelerate hard into
> > a turn, and you can get the back to step out, much
> > like a RWD car but with more power & grip.
>
> i haven't driven all, i wouldn't know ;)
> i'd like to hear more about this "rear bias" tho...
Unlike a lot of AWD cars (read Subarus), the skyline is basically mostly RWD
unless you give it a heap, and the computers decide to send more grunt to
the front wheels. (driving the thing in Gran Turismo should demonstrate it)
Many other AWD cars are mostly FWD until AWD is required
Julians adventures in "Godzilla Tames" explain it all pretty well.
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0060/page1.html
M@W8
news:wPtg7.138996$Xr6.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> I also think on a cosmetic basis the R34 looks a lot better - they look
> fantastic in the flesh. HSV could take some tips from the GTR as to how to
> make a car look.
The R34 does look nice (agressive), but R33 and R32 are pretty boring.
That said... the M3 looks very understated, which is what I like.
DAN
better sports tourer". Not how to mod the car.
DAN
<FWDP...@Vrooooooooom.com> wrote in message
news:3b825ef9.1420562310@news...
Mark Pakula
>> value better, but as for the following;
>
>it is a precision made european automobile, not some asian wank crap
LOL.
some people really have no idea.
How many M3 and M5 engines (stock) have failed?
youd be suprised at the answer (in the UK and aus) quite a few.
How many Stock R34 GTR engines have failed (none that i know of)
>> > better handling
>> Are you sure?
>
>i'd put money on it
LOL. another joke.
There are a few cars which can beat a GTR, an M3 is NOT one of them.
Do some research, before you make yourself look like a fool.
Check stock productions car times, at a particular track in Germany,
Nurburgring.(sp)
>> Skylines are rear-biased; you accelerate hard into
>> a turn, and you can get the back to step out, much
>> like a RWD car but with more power & grip.
>
>i haven't driven all, i wouldn't know ;)
>i'd like to hear more about this "rear bias" tho...
Its pretty simple.
A GTR is 100% RWD. If the computer detects the rears slipping,
it applies power to the front wheels. Up to 50%. (50% is pretty rare)
BMW have a similar system, where by the computer simply cuts the power to the
rear wheels. Seems a slower way of doing things to me.
>> > more luxurious interior
>> Are they? The E36 wasn't.
>
>I travel regularly in an E46
Yet you dont in an R34.
>> > BMW special owners' events
>> They might be worthwhile, yes.
>
>believe me they are
>wether you like wanky social wine functions or hardcore autocross meets, once
>you buy a new bmw, you get treated like royalty
LOL. Yeah, by a typical 318i and see how royaly you get treated,
spat on it more like it.
Drive an R34 anywhere, and watch people bow down to you.
>> So? It's the amount of power & how it's delivered;
>> who cares how it's made.
>
>i was more speaking the potential power that could be extracted from the donk,
>quite in excess of the skyline i'd imagine
LOL.
now youve topped it.
I havent seen too many 1300kw (yes one thousand three hundred kilo-watts)
M3s. Yet GTRs like that exist.
.m.
atec77
detrimental to comfort in this situation . the jap toy will prolly make
more power but I still think the Beemer for the trip
atec77
its day . in its day .. I loved mine , but then you didn't have the
opportunity to drive a brand new v8 wy gt.. I did . awesome :_)/
Charlie
>
> yes, but thats a 5.7L V8, the M3 puts out 252kw from a 3.2L straight 6
> without turbos or superchargers.
why does that matter at all? All that means is it'll have a lot less
bottom end than either the 5.7L or the forced induction engine, which as
far as I can see, isn't a good thing.
Charlie
Charlie
> The R34 does look nice (agressive), but R33 and R32 are pretty boring.
> That said... the M3 looks very understated, which is what I like.
I've always really liked the skylines from r32 to r34... not as
overstated as most jap performance cars, yet still agressive in many
ways.
Charlie
st3ph3nm
"it is a precision made european automobile, not some asian wank crap"
Yes, a piece of wank crap that was so bloody good, that it got banned
from racing because no one (including BMW, IIRC) could compete with
the damn thing.
It shits me to tears that some people consider anything Japanese built
to be crappy. They've been producing good quality cars for at least
30+ years, in just about every market segment. Old Corollas may not
be exciting, but they're bloody reliable. Datsun 1600's had IRS in
1968, for crying out loud - when did anyone else bring that out in a
standard RWD family shopping trolley?
And they've LED the world in affordable decent driving cars for the
last 10 years, at least - Mazda MX5 (thank god for that car - without
it we wouldn't have the MGF, Porsche Boxter) and RX7, Subaru WRX,
Toyota MR2 and Supra (2nd in Targa Tas ain't at all shabby), Nissan
200SX and 300ZX, Honda S2000 and Integra R - the list goes on.
There's something for just about everyone in that bloody list - FWD,
RWD, AWD, convertible, family wagon, you name it.
I'm sorry, BMW's are nice cars and all, but just because it's
European, doesn't necessarily make it better.
Cheers,
Steve
Peter McMillan
>Datsun 1600's had IRS in
>1968, for crying out loud - when did anyone else bring that out in a
>standard RWD family shopping trolley?
Errrr, the Fiat 500 had IRS a long time before that again. And it was
aimed at an even lower cost market segment that the Datto was.
Peter
If you change dot com to dot au,
there's a better chance you message will get through.
atec77
car.. and the beemer is my choice. if I was looking for a balls out
sprinter the beemer would not be the correct choice. simple .
Norbie
"atec77" <"atec77(remove the)"@(nospam)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zkDg7.11880$46.2...@news1.rochd1.qld.optushome.com.au...
> wasn't the question about a long trip ?. to much power can be
> detrimental to comfort in this situation . the jap toy will prolly make
> more power but I still think the Beemer for the trip
A standard GTR has 206kW (officially anyway), is that "too much"?
I don't see too many HSV owners complaining that their 300kW engines have
too much power...
Norbie.
Norbie
> God will strike you down Norbie . the xy/xw shape was a terrific car in
> its day . in its day .. I loved mine , but then you didn't have the
> opportunity to drive a brand new v8 wy gt.. I did . awesome :_)/
I was talking about the styling, in response to the utterly ludicrous
suggestion that Ford should continue building Falcons that look like that.
Anyone who thinks an XY has a nice shape has a serious case of Ford bias!
Norbie.
st3ph3nm
> On 21 Aug 2001 18:05:16 -0700, sg...@hotmail.com (st3ph3nm) wrote:
>
> >Datsun 1600's had IRS in
> >1968, for crying out loud - when did anyone else bring that out in a
> >standard RWD family shopping trolley?
>
> Errrr, the Fiat 500 had IRS a long time before that again. And it was
> aimed at an even lower cost market segment that the Datto was.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the FIAT you're talking about a
rear engined jobby?
You're right, regardless, the Datsun wasn't the first cheap car to
have IRS, but it was certainly cutting edge for its time. My point
being that Japanese cars are not crap.
Cheers,
Steve
st3ph3nm
> I see your using my spell checker today ?.. this post is about a tour
> car.. and the beemer is my choice. if I was looking for a balls out
> sprinter the beemer would not be the correct choice. simple .
No, you stupid ignoramus. The *thread* is about a touring car. Did
you *read* my post? Did you *READ* the post I was responding to? If
you didn't, then you're stupid for responding to something that you
didn't read. If you DID, then you're stupid for not comprehending my
post (which I won't snip so you can go back and read it again. If you
need help, go and ask Mummy to explain the big words...
Cheers,
Steve
st3ph3nm
> "BoganMan" <jam...@GREEN-EGGS-AND-SPAMdingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
> news:3b827980$0$20948$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
> > > It has more wank value ... probably keeps it's
> > > value better, but as for the following;
> >
> > it is a precision made european automobile, not some asian wank crap
>
> You just flushed your credibility down the toilet with that comment.
What credibility? I'm yet to see an intelligent post from this idiot.
Seems to me he's about equal to David Z in intelligence.
>
<snip>
> > i haven't driven all, i wouldn't know ;)
> > i'd like to hear more about this "rear bias" tho...
>
> So you know nothing about the Skyline, yet you claim the M3 will win "hands
> down"? Sounds like your arguments are based entirely on Euro-elite wankery,
> rather than logic.
See what I mean. But he soon quietens down when you point out his
arguments lack any logic. Or thought.
>
Cheers,
Steve
(Sorry if I seem to be ranting, I'll put up with most things, just not
total idiocy wrapped up in popular opinions - I'll stop now)
Dennis Jensen
"st3ph3nm" <sg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:221fa157.01082...@posting.google.com...
> p.mcm...@uq.edu.com (Peter McMillan) wrote in message
news:<3b830896...@news.uq.edu.au>...
> > On 21 Aug 2001 18:05:16 -0700, sg...@hotmail.com (st3ph3nm) wrote:
> >
> > >Datsun 1600's had IRS in
> > >1968, for crying out loud - when did anyone else bring that out in a
> > >standard RWD family shopping trolley?
> >
> > Errrr, the Fiat 500 had IRS a long time before that again. And it was
> > aimed at an even lower cost market segment that the Datto was.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the FIAT you're talking about a
> rear engined jobby?
>
As was the VW Beetle, and THAT also had IRS.
Dennis
Peter McMillan
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the FIAT you're talking about a
>rear engined jobby?
Yes it is. You mentioned family hack RWDs though, and the rear engine
brigade Euros have been doing RWD IRS combos in that segment for a
long time. Just thought I'd chuck it in for good measure!
>You're right, regardless, the Datsun wasn't the first cheap car to
>have IRS, but it was certainly cutting edge for its time. My point
>being that Japanese cars are not crap.
I couldn't agree more. The days of Japanese cars being crap are long
long gone, but people like to cling to old paradigms for a variety of
reasons. Datto 1600 was very much an icon of it's time, and dare I
suggest that there are lots of other Japanese cars that are the same.
Celica, MX-5, 323/Laser are all Jap cars that should be judged as
being very significant introductions to their market segment.
Punch Bunny
<nospamfor:nickm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>a mate and i got into a bit of an argument about which car would be the
>better sports tourer to own:
>
>a new M3
>OR
>a new R34 Skyline
I remember reading a pommy magazine a couple of years back (I think it
was just called Car or something?), that pitted an R34 Skyline GTR
against a BMW M3. First up was the M3, which they (understandably)
raved over. Then they tested the Skyline - and claimed that it
outperformed the M3 right across across the board (the figures seemed
to back that up, too).
My personal opinion? If I was buying one... well, I can't buy an
Australian delivered R34 here, so it'd have to be a grey import, which
would mean it'd probably be cheaper than an M3 (of course, BMWs hold
their value pretty well, but imported Skylines depreciate very
quickly). I'd probably go the Skyline GTR - if I could fit into it.
Otherwise, I'd take the M3 ;-)
- Bunny
Mark Pakula
>better sports tourer". Not how to mod the car.
The only way youll know is when u drive them and which one suits you.
that said ive been a passenger in an E36 M3 (Sat in an E46), and an R34 GTR.
and id personaly take the GTR.
It has more interior space, and the engine seem more effortless,
and the handling a little safer (in my eyes)
.m.
Greg Stewart
But from them, I think would prefer the GT-R.
The M3 would probably be more comfortable for touring, but I would like
something that can go fairly quick through the corners on twisty mountainous
roads, which points me to the GT-R.
Greg.
"nJm" <nospamfor:nickm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Tftg7.138923$Xr6.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> a mate and i got into a bit of an argument about which car would be the
> better sports tourer to own:
>
> a new M3
> OR
> a new R34 Skyline
>
atec77
Masta
you buy it - wife, girlfriend etc, they're much more likely to let you
buy a bmw than a nissan lol :-)
John M
---------------------------------------------------------
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jmasson
Suba-Booba Central :
Be prepared to laugh - and please don't hate mail me.
BoganMan
you like asian cars, i like eurocars, it's just bias. i'm not a "if it's not a
v8 it's crap" person, i think every engine has its place, from the 1L Sirion to
the 9.1L Chev
i'd still choose the M3 for sheer comfort, and because I feel the BMW 6 has more
potential for power, both stock and with modifications
as for engine design, both BMW and Merc were extracting 1300HP+ from 4 cylinder
engines way back in the early 80s. that commands my respect
quality-wise, there was a writeup a few months back on one of the usual carnews
sites about M5 owners trading their cars for HSV GTSs, because of BMW's falling
quality and the bang-for-buck factor. but as with most things, the bad news is
heard more than the good
and apologies for not posting replies frequently this week, i have a life away
from the computer that is requiring some attention
BoganMan
as far as Fords and Holdens go, I'd pick a Holden any day
but i still think the XYs were a good shape
a real aussie Ford
Dennis Jensen
Although one that was basically American. The first truly Aussie Falcon was
the XA, all the previous ones were models that were styled in the US, and
had Falcons that were sold in the US of the same design.
Dennis
nJm
Commodores etc, BMWs have barely any mechanical issues, and while yes, i did
read about the M5, that is a completely different car to the M3. You can't
say that because the V8 M5 is unreliable that the Straight-6 M3 will be too.
BoganMan <jam...@GREEN-EGGS-AND-SPAMdingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:3b835e33$0$20970$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
nJm
has anyone seen the Top Gear video review of the new M3. Tiff is driving it
on twisting country roads and thinks it's great.
i'll dig up the link, but is quite big, only for those on cable :(
Greg Stewart <gjst...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:9rIg7.139882$Xr6.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
George B
has the presence
of a r34 gtr. You stand next to one and its simply amazing...
--
cheers,
George
-01 200sx
FWDP...@Vrooooooooom.com wrote in message <3b826968.1423233351@news>...
>errrrrrrrrrr
>leave the HSVs as it is...big mutha muscle car looks 10 times better!!
>dam they should have left the falcons as the XY shape too...
>
>the GTR is quite ordinary looking. i.e. nothing special except for the
>rear dish headlights... again... its a known thing that all research
>has gone into the performance department rather than stylish looks on
>the GTR...
>
>
>
>
>
FWDP...@vrooooooooom.com
seats...but...when it comes to looks... i still reckon the HSVs kick
mega ass...
On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:18:26 GMT, "Gavin Cato" <gc...@bigpond.net.au>
wrote:
>The GTR is a muscle car albeit a japanese one - when you stand next to a R34
>you'll understand.
>
>Gav
>
>
><FWDP...@Vrooooooooom.com> wrote in message
>news:3b826968.1423233351@news...
>> errrrrrrrrrr
>> leave the HSVs as it is...big mutha muscle car looks 10 times better!!
>> dam they should have left the falcons as the XY shape too...
>>
>> the GTR is quite ordinary looking. i.e. nothing special except for the
>> rear dish headlights... again... its a known thing that all research
>> has gone into the performance department rather than stylish looks on
>> the GTR...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:59:56 GMT, "Gavin Cato" <gc...@bigpond.net.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The inherent problem with a question such as this is that practically
>no-one
>> >would have had the oppurtunity to drive both of these cars to give a
>proper
>> >opinion, peoples thoughts on the two cars will be mostly influenced by
>> >magazine/video/websites.
>> >
>> >That said, I'd prefer the R34 because of the ease of extracting further
>> >power from it, and for the attessa 4wd system.
>> >
>> >I also think on a cosmetic basis the R34 looks a lot better - they look
>> >fantastic in the flesh. HSV could take some tips from the GTR as to how
>to
>> >make a car look.
>> >
>> >Gav
>> >
>> >PS
>> >
>> >3rd Gen RX7's are better than both :-)
George B
>and apologies for not posting replies frequently this week, i have a life
away
>from the computer that is requiring some attention
>
umm.....werent you the number 1 poster by a mile last week?
FWDP...@vrooooooooom.com
is correct or not can be interpretted differently by different
people...
I think u're a wanker... but I bet u'd think different... so who is
right? :o) its all in the interpretation.
On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:08:49 +1000, "BoganMan"
<jam...@GREEN-EGGS-AND-SPAMdingoblue.net.au> wrote:
>> dam they should have left the falcons as the XY shape too...
>
>oh my god vroom!
>this is possibly the single correct thought you've ever had about cars!!!
>
>
Simmo@.
: )
get it ?
nJm <nospamfor:nickm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ORJg7.140142$Xr6.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
nJm
Simmo@. <sr_norriss@hotmail [DOT] com> wrote in message
news:KeLg7.140423$Xr6.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Gavin Cato
Gav
<FWDP...@Vrooooooooom.com> wrote in message
news:3b837657.1492080508@news...
Harry
> dyno'd 440kw at the wheels (thats not a typo) on a 4WD dyno. And that is
> with completely stock engine, just with larger turbo's, upgraded fuel
system
> and ECU etc.. The car has since run more power...
im sorry, but an engine which has a larger turbo fitted on, and upgraded
fuel system and ECU is NOT... i repeat NOT a COMPLETELY STOCK
ENGINE!!!!!!!!
sorry.. but your contradicting yourself...
anywho.. have a think about it...
harry
George B
internals etc
everything else is bolt ons
so ner
--
cheers,
George
-01 200sx
>im sorry, but an engine which has a larger turbo fitted on, and upgraded
George B
--
cheers,
George
-01 200sx
Gavin Cato wrote in message ...
Gavin Cato
> fuel system and ECU is NOT... i repeat NOT a COMPLETELY STOCK
> ENGINE!!!!!!!!
>
> sorry.. but your contradicting yourself...
No I'm not.
I said the engine is on stock internals.
i.e. the motor itself is strong enough to handle the extra power generated
by the bolt on hardware.
Gav
Harry
> I said the engine is on stock internals.
(said previously)
>The rb26 is bloody strong. There is a R33 GTR in nsw that I know of >that
>dyno'd 440kw at the wheels (thats not a typo) on a 4WD dyno. And that >is
>with completely stock engine, just with larger turbo's, upgraded fuel
>system
>and ECU etc.. The car has since run more power...
where in the above writing does it say the engine is running on stock
internals....
i grant you said "completely stock engine" but not internals...
so how am i expected to know thats what you meant?
harry
The Red Krawler
> >dyno'd 440kw at the wheels (thats not a typo) on a 4WD dyno. And that >is
> >with completely stock engine, just with larger turbo's, upgraded fuel
> >system
> >and ECU etc.. The car has since run more power...
> where in the above writing does it say the engine is running on stock
> internals....
> so how am i expected to know thats what you meant?
Fucken idiot.
Gavin Cato
"stock engine but with upgraded blah blah blah".
it's pretty common in "turbo speak" to say "stock motor" and mean stock
internals with bolt ons.
Gav
"Harry" <Hot...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:x4Ng7.3511$Ee.2...@news1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au...
Harry
thanks...
just ide never heard of anyone saying that before.. just sounded a lil
illogical....
:)
ill keep it in mind
"Gavin Cato" <gc...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:vjNg7.140836$Xr6.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Harry
"The Red Krawler" <hamspamkra...@spicedhoontownham.com> wrote in
message news:AhNg7.11991$46.3...@news1.rochd1.qld.optushome.com.au...
FWDP...@vrooooooooom.com
HSV..
:o)
On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:03:52 GMT, "Gavin Cato" <gc...@bigpond.net.au>
FWDP...@vrooooooooom.com
typical tail trailers..
BoganMan
> Commodores etc, BMWs have barely any mechanical issues
i imagine BMW haven't done a large-scale recall in a long time
> and while yes, i did
> read about the M5, that is a completely different car to the M3. You can't
> say that because the V8 M5 is unreliable that the Straight-6 M3 will be too.
i agree totally
BoganMan
> was the XA, all the previous ones were models that were styled in the US,
> and had Falcons that were sold in the US of the same design.
then the yanks at least got one thing right
the the early Xs, aka cardboard-box-mobile, i have no love for their exteriors
Forg
...
> i was more speaking the potential power that could be extracted from the donk,
> quite in excess of the skyline i'd imagine
...
What? Unless you're putting a turbo on it, I think
you've gone insane! :)
--
--
Forg! -DUH#6=- (Y1)
"...
this crazy Forg surrounds me
..."
[Live - "When Dolphins Cry"]
Forg
>> It has more wank value ... probably keeps it's
>> value better, but as for the following;
...
> it is a precision made european automobile, not some asian wank crap
...
Woah, you're calling something with the
performance of a Skyline GT-R "wank crap"? That's
some serious delusional bias you got goin' there ...
Forg
...
> I hope you're both kidding. The XY is a box on wheels with a few chrome
> bits tacked on. You might as well claim that a Volvo 244GL is the pinnacle
> of automotive styling!
...
Ahemm ...
He might just be right, were he to say that ...
Forg
>> I hope you're both kidding. The XY is a box on wheels with a few chrome
>> bits tacked on. You might as well claim that a Volvo 244GL is the
>
> pinnacle
>
>> of automotive styling!
>
>
> Hey forg would agree :)
...
Hear, hear!
BoganMan
> HSV..
pfft..
typical tail trailers..
BoganMan
yes, hence the "this week" part of the message
for me, this week is drastically different to last week
Noddy
"nJm" <nospamfor:nickm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Tftg7.138923$Xr6.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> a mate and i got into a bit of an argument about which car would be the
> better sports tourer to own:
>
> a new M3
> OR
> a new R34 Skyline
>
> I thought the Beemer would be far better, being a more traditional sports
> car (powerful NA inline 6, RWD etc) but this twin-turbo 4x4 Nissan coupe
> seems to go pretty well, but to me lacks in many areas.
>
> suppose its all personal preference, but out of curiosity, who likes which
> more and why?
Unless you've actually driven both I think it would be hard to say really.
I was fortunate enough to have a drive of an M3 a couple of years ago (it
was then a 12 month old car) and it was an extremely impressive vehicle.
Superb build quality and layout, exceptional brakes, brilliant handling and
power delivery and a very, very nice ride. I was extremely impressed by the
"Jekyl & Hyde" nature of the thing in that it could go all day being smooth,
quiet and comfortable in heavy traffic without hinting at it's capabilities,
but felt like a race car as soon as you stabbed it.
There wasn't a single thing about the car that I'd like to change, and it
had one of the sweetest sounding engines I've ever heard.
Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to drive an R34 Skyline yet,
but it's high on my list of cars that I want to have a steer of before I
die... :)
Regards,
Noddy.
atec77
to justify ?)
the nissan is aeons apart , more nervy , as a sprinter yes its the go ,
but Ill always want that beemer :)
G>
atec77
nice long road , just a hint of steering play . wonderful nothing like
it hey ?
G>
(or friday night heading home from the pub .. shhh)
Noddy wrote:
>
> <FWDP...@Vrooooooooom.com> wrote in message
> news:3b826968.1423233351@news...
> > errrrrrrrrrr
> > leave the HSVs as it is...big mutha muscle car looks 10 times better!!
> > dam they should have left the falcons as the XY shape too...
>
> Oh boy :)
>
> I love old Falcon's myself and I'm a GT nut from years back, but you could
> hardly call the boxy shape of an XY good looking. The GT's looked okay with
> their "vibrant" colours, stripes, lower stance, different wheels and
> spoilers & shaker, but the standard Falcons were *very* average looking
> cars... :)
>
> Oh, and a big tip for you: They drove like absolute pigs :)
>
> Regards,
> Noddy.
Noddy
"Dennis Jensen" <jen...@amdaat.com.au> wrote in message
>
> Although one that was basically American. The first truly Aussie Falcon
was
> the XA, all the previous ones were models that were styled in the US, and
> had Falcons that were sold in the US of the same design.
I'd agree, but only in the sense of the sheetmetal on the sedan. The XA used
carry-over US based mechanicals from the XY series and the Coupe was based
heavily on the American Torino.
All of the models prior to XA, with the exception of the XK which was
identical to the US Falcon of the time, were local adaptations of US body
styles. They differed from the US models only in front & rear styling with
the body shell being more or less the same. The XD was a almost a direct
lift of the UK based Grenada (I think it was called) with local mechanicals.
To my mind, the first Truly Aussie based Falcon was the EA with the BTR 4
speed auto, as it's the one that had the most Australian input, both
mechanically and body wise.
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
"atec77" <"atec77(remove the)"@(nospam)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fuPg7.12014$46.3...@news1.rochd1.qld.optushome.com.au...
> come on though Nod . the GT with the big donk and in the outback with a
> nice long road , just a hint of steering play . wonderful nothing like
> it hey ?
> G>
> (or friday night heading home from the pub .. shhh)
Oh yeah, for sure.
I can vividly remember trying to emulate that famous photo of the XY doing
140mph up the Hume in my XW GT and having a shitload of fun doing so, but I
could never get anyone game enough to sit in the back seat with a camera :)
As I said, I love the old things and would dearly love to have another GT as
a pet project today, but you could hardly call them an attractive car. A car
with character, yes. A car that'd put the fear of god into you on a rainy
night if you weren't concentrating, by all means, but an attractive car, no.
Forg actually described them pretty accurately quite some time ago when he
said they look like a "4x2 Leggo block with a 2x2 Leggo block stuck in the
middle" and I thought that was a *very* good description :)
Regards,
Noddy.
Peter McMillan
wrote:
>...and it goes a long way to show that IRS does very little for handling
>ability :)
Awww, but you're talking swing axles now, at least in the case of the
'dub and the Fiat. There are much better IRS setups than that. In
fact, I don't actually think there is a worse one!
Peter
If you change dot com to dot au,
there's a better chance you message will get through.
nJm
I know people have said the M3 can be driven 'normally', quite relaxed, but
jab the accelerator (or in the new M3's case, the Sports mode on
Drive-by-wire) and it feels like a race car; and i believe they were
refering to the old E36 model M3, the new (E46) M3 is supposedly less 'raw'
but has better performance.
atec77 <"atec77(remove the)"@(nospam)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:IsPg7.12013$46.3...@news1.rochd1.qld.optushome.com.au...
st3ph3nm
> okay, agreed, the "asian wank crap" was an incorrect comment, i take it back
Fine, apology accepted. :)
>
> you like asian cars, i like eurocars, it's just bias. i'm not a "if it's not a
> v8 it's crap" person, i think every engine has its place, from the 1L Sirion to
> the 9.1L Chev
Actually, I just like cars. I have a preference for old cars, but
I've never been too worried about where they came from. Out of the
modern cars around, I want to try out the new Renault Clio Sport, the
Pug 206Gti, and the Nissan 200SX. All of them I could probably live
happily with. But I'd probably end up buying something with four
doors and more room - I've got a "fun" car, if I got a second car it'd
have to be a "practical" car.
FWIW, I would guess that the M3 might be the better car for long range
touring, but having driven neither, I can't say.
Cheers,
Steve
st3ph3nm
> "atec77" <"atec77(remove the)"@(nospam)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fuPg7.12014$46.3...@news1.rochd1.qld.optushome.com.au...
> > come on though Nod . the GT with the big donk and in the outback with a
> > nice long road , just a hint of steering play . wonderful nothing like
> > it hey ?
> > G>
> > (or friday night heading home from the pub .. shhh)
>
> Oh yeah, for sure.
>
> I can vividly remember trying to emulate that famous photo of the XY doing
> 140mph up the Hume in my XW GT and having a shitload of fun doing so, but I
> could never get anyone game enough to sit in the back seat with a camera :)
You'll like this site, then:
http://newuser.fl.net.au/~chris/hume.htm
Cheers,
Steve
Mark Pakula
>potential for power, both stock and with modifications
this is the bit i completly dont unsderstand.
you have one 3.2 litre NA engine, making a fair bit of power.
Its in a pretty high state of tune already.
you have another Forced induction engine, amking similar power,
with slightly less capacity, under no major stress at all.
do the exact same mods to both cars, and i bet the GTR engine will give you
a lot higher gains.
and i havent seen many 1300kw M3 engines.
and btw, Honda had F1 engines easily comparable to anything BMW and Merc made.
.m.
atec77
imported , does all the stuff for the racing on the street , and he
still pushes a fairlane about town for the shopping .
Why ?. well he's sick of the looks , the questions and the hype , its
no faster around town , better for the lights but as a general use he
likes the power steering and slush box , but then that's comfort I spose
. (pretty damn quick nissan though)
and his toy makes just over 1000 hp with the wick wound up , that's
short of 1300 ?. KW
Dennis Jensen
> >
> > Although one that was basically American. The first truly Aussie Falcon
> was
> > the XA, all the previous ones were models that were styled in the US,
and
> > had Falcons that were sold in the US of the same design.
>
> I'd agree, but only in the sense of the sheetmetal on the sedan. The XA
used
> carry-over US based mechanicals from the XY series and the Coupe was based
> heavily on the American Torino.
>
> All of the models prior to XA, with the exception of the XK which was
> identical to the US Falcon of the time, were local adaptations of US body
> styles. They differed from the US models only in front & rear styling with
> the body shell being more or less the same. The XD was a almost a direct
> lift of the UK based Grenada (I think it was called) with local
mechanicals.
>
Noddy, although the XD looks similar to the Granada in some ways, and had
styling based on the Granada, it is definitely nowhere near the same-you
would not find one component you could switch. The Commodores ALL would be
more similar to their European counterparts than the XD was similar to the
Granada (I know the Granada well, used to have them in South Africa).
Dennis
Mark Pakula
>imported , does all the stuff for the racing on the street , and he
>still pushes a fairlane about town for the shopping .
> Why ?. well he's sick of the looks , the questions and the hype , its
>no faster around town , better for the lights but as a general use he
>likes the power steering and slush box , but then that's comfort I spose
>. (pretty damn quick nissan though)
> and his toy makes just over 1000 hp with the wick wound up , that's
>short of 1300 ?. KW
there are a few 1300hp ones, ie; A'PEXi HKS drag units,
and I know of one 1300kw one in japan.
sure they might not be common, but a hell of a lot more common then the same
power with an M3 engine.
.m.
atec77
Kieron Murphy
<jen...@amdaat.com.au> wrote:
>
>"Noddy" <dgib...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
>news:3b83...@news.iprimus.com.au...
>>
>> "Dennis Jensen" <jen...@amdaat.com.au> wrote in message
>Noddy, although the XD looks similar to the Granada in some ways, and had
>styling based on the Granada, it is definitely nowhere near the same-you
>would not find one component you could switch.
IIRC, the only part you could switch was the headlights, I don't even
think the Granada had the 'eyeball' A/C vents like the XD's, which are
of European origin in themselves.
Kieron
Kieron Murphy
wrote:
>I'd agree, but only in the sense of the sheetmetal on the sedan. The XA used
>carry-over US based mechanicals from the XY series and the Coupe was based
>heavily on the American Torino.
>
>All of the models prior to XA, with the exception of the XK which was
>identical to the US Falcon of the time, were local adaptations of US body
>styles. They differed from the US models only in front & rear styling with
>the body shell being more or less the same. The XD was a almost a direct
>lift of the UK based Grenada (I think it was called) with local mechanicals.
Ford Aus didn't have any design/clay modelling studios in the 60's, so
even the XW (unique front/rear to Aus) was styled in the US.
The XA was also styled in the US using 3 designers based in Aus, Jack
Telnack (an American) and Rossi (Fresh from the UK at the time) + a
3rd person I can't recall, after seeing the results of the trio,
Knudsen gave Ford Aus the go ahead to build a design/clay studio, the
facelifted XB was the first product iirc.
>To my mind, the first Truly Aussie based Falcon was the EA with the BTR 4
>speed auto, as it's the one that had the most Australian input, both
>mechanically and body wise.
Which in itself was styled on the 80's Granada to a large degree ;-)
Kieron
Mark Pakula
how 1200hp per litre?
1300kw is 1742hp.
the engine started at 2.6 ltires, and ended up at from memory 2.8
or so.
thats about 620hp per litre.
top fuel dragsters can get ~1000hp per litre.
naturally an engine like this wouldnt last long, but as a record,
and ultimate potential of what the RB26 is capable of, stands.
Shaddow Edge
George B wrote in message <9lvt80$abn$1...@bugstomper.ihug.com.au>...
>quite ordinary looking? in my opinion there is no other car on the road
that
>has the presence
>of a r34 gtr. You stand next to one and its simply amazing...
I don't know, a mean looking old skool car (dodge charger *like in blade*,
etc) would kill for presence. Might not look as sleek but presence wise
more impact...
Shaddow
atec77
would cost more than a whole falcadore... dont even consider it worth a
further mention ,,
Dan--
B was the first product iirc.
>
> >To my mind, the first Truly Aussie based Falcon was the EA with the BTR 4
> >speed auto, as it's the one that had the most Australian input, both
> >mechanically and body wise.
>
> Which in itself was styled on the 80's Granada to a large degree ;-)
They had a name for it didn't they when they released the XD the
Blackbird series or something or other I dunno I cant remember.
--
Regards
Dan
===================================================================
Remove (nospam) from email addy if you are going to email me.
Only way to drive a V8 is WOT!
===================================================================
John Robinson
wrote:
>>I feel the BMW 6 has more
>>potential for power, both stock and with modifications
>
>
>this is the bit i completly dont unsderstand.
>
>you have one 3.2 litre NA engine, making a fair bit of power.
>Its in a pretty high state of tune already.
I agree with Mark on this, I don't really see that there is much that
can be done to the BMW 6's used in the M cars. I have a E34 M5 with
the 3.6litre 6, and it has a lot in common with the M3's 6.
For the M5, The engines are engineered pretty close to their maximum
rev limts. You can change the chip and get a few hundred more revs,
but thats all. They already run a farily high compression ratio, very
lumpy cams, huge individual throttle bodies, polished and matched
head, mandrel bent extractors, and a very free flowing twin 2"
exhaust. There is really nowhere left to go to get extra power from
them.
A lot of people put in an aftermarket chip, and claim to notice a huge
improvement, but my before and after dyno measurements would indicate
otherwise. Some people try different cam gears, but this generally
boosts midrange torque at the expense of some top end power. And to my
knowledge, no-one has ever managed to improve upon the stock exhaust,
except when removing the cats.
Regards
John
The Red Krawler
I dont think I have to anymore =)
BoganMan
as do i
personally, i wouldn't buy a car made after 1990
the shapes mostly got boring to me then
> But I'd probably end up buying something with four
> doors and more room - I've got a "fun" car, if I got a second car it'd
> have to be a "practical" car.
i'd have a little 4 cylinder fuel mizer, and a worked big block or rote
i've already got the first one ;) lol
FWDP...@vrooooooooom.com
thread.
Ronald
I know of some in the US that run 10's and lower and they are streetable
"John Robinson" <jrobboRE...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:kub9otomodr41du1a...@4ax.com...