F3 Coroner outcome, police enforecmenet
Mot Adv
XR8 Sprintless
> http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Coroners_Court/ll_coroners.nsf/vwFiles/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf/$file/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf
Interesting read. I can concur with the Coroner in regards to operating
from the right hand lane being inherently dangerous. I recall on evening
travelling home around midnight on a 3 lane section of road and seeing a
RBT operating on the left. I was in the right hand lane having just come
around a corner and glanced to the left to see if any officers were
coming across to pull me over. A movement from the centre island caught
my attention and I noticed an officer in standard uniform without
reflective vest holding up a stop sign around 30 metres in front of my
vehicle. I came to a rapid halt then pulled across to the left of the
road to have said officer come across and abuse the shit out of me for
my rapid stop. I suggested to him most vehemently that to step out from
the centre island into the middle of the road without reflective
clothing holding a stop sign when there was very little ambient lighting
made him extremely difficult to see and he should be very thankful that
I responded as quickly as I had to the situation and he was still alive.
A breath test reading of 0.0 and a clean driving record checked and he
let me go with a warning to pay more attention. My response was to
indicate that he should have been using a torch stopper not a stop sign
and he was very lucky I was paying attention.
veritas
> http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Coroners_Court/ll_coroners.nsf/vwFiles/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf/$file/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf
>
>
>
It proves speeding must be dangerous. HOWEVER if this constable had
been more interesed in road safety and workplace safety the entire
incident would have been a safe non-event.
It was fortunate that many lives were not lost throught this man's
behaviour. The scene certainly had great potential for disaster.
I noted that a previous complaint had been lodged against him for
similar behaviour. Slow learner it seems as well as negligence of his
LAC by failing to provide appropriate supervision of his subordinate/s.
veritas
It is surprising that he did not reply; "I'll take you to the police
station if you want to argue".
Police get to play God without challenge for so long, they get to
believe that they are - and will not accept any opinion not to their liking.
XR8 Sprintless
> liking.
I think he would have needed to call for reinforcements to do that. I'm
a rather big person and I think I scared the hell out of him when I
got out of the car. He was bloody lucky to survive and the position
where the RBT was was poor. Should he have invited me for a trip to the
station I would have lodged a formal complaint about both the position
of the stop and the method of stopping. The fact that I managed to avoid
him was only due to the excellent braking ability of the car I was in
and my reactions which basically saved his life as he was standing there
without taking any evasive action. Bit like a deer in the headlights. I
did call him an idiot to his face so I was a bit surprised I didn't end
up getting a bit more attention. I guess the fact that I blew 0 and it
was my birthday helped as I was on my way home from dinner.
Jeßus
:
I was in the exact same situation once, just south of Darwin.
In my case, his response was (paraphrasing): "STFU or I'll defect your
car".
I wanted to ask how long he'd been on the NT force, because that was the
first and last arsehole cop I encountered up there. Maybe I was lucky...
Sylvia Else
> Mot Adv <mot...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>> http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Coroners_Court/ll_coroners.nsf/vwFiles/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf/$file/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf
>
> Read enough of it and you'll discover that it was actually
> tailgating and not speed per se that caused the crash... First
> car gets the "stop police" sign, brakes hard to try to stop where
> the cop was, vehicle behind clips first vehicle and spins it.
>
The word "tailgating" does not appear in the document. What is known is
that the following driver was not able stop in time in the situation he
encountered.
While the law is that one has to travel behind at a distance that allows
one to stop, one doesn't expect the vehicle in front to brake hard in
the outside lane of a freeway. There's more than the problem of reaction
times involved, brake lights don't indicate anything other than that the
brakes have been applied to some degree. It can take considerable time
to realise that the vehicle in front is decelerating rapidly and
continuously.
I'm surprised that operations of this sort are/were ever undertaken. It
seems obvious that it will create more danger than the alleged modest
speeding will (eg 130 in a 110 zone). Maniacs driving at much higher
speeds could be stopped by other means.
Sylvia.
Albm&ctd
a race riot and enquiry :-)
Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html
Albm&ctd
syl...@not.at.this.address says...
> While the law is that one has to travel behind at a distance that allows
> one to stop, one doesn't expect the vehicle in front to brake hard in
> the outside lane of a freeway.
>
leave room to stop in case the chain comes off and locks the back wheel and puts
the rider on the road.
If following a truck with a load something may fall off.
etc.. Maybe I could write a list why following too closely is dangerous.
My main agro with drivers following is why are the majority tailgaters, ie:
fucking stupid?
Sylvia Else
> In article <0084a3b5$0$17039$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> syl...@not.at.this.address says...
>> While the law is that one has to travel behind at a distance that allows
>> one to stop, one doesn't expect the vehicle in front to brake hard in
>> the outside lane of a freeway.
>>
> Yes.. well.. the law should state, if following a chain driven motorcycle please
> leave room to stop in case the chain comes off and locks the back wheel and puts
> the rider on the road.
> If following a truck with a load something may fall off.
> etc.. Maybe I could write a list why following too closely is dangerous.
Those are rather different situations. It's much easier to see something
come off a truck or a morecyclist come off his bike than it is to
recognise that the vehicle in front is abruptly decelerating rapidly.
Anyway, neither something off a truck, nor a motorcyclist sliding down
the road, can stop as quickly as car can.
I trust we won't get into a foolish discussion about how the area in
contact is larger.
>
> My main agro with drivers following is why are the majority tailgaters, ie:
> fucking stupid?
Tailgating is a subset of driving too close. I often feel that the
person behind is too close, but I don't regard it as tail gating unless
I can't see their number plate. And that happens often enough.
Sylvia.
Albm&ctd
syl...@not.at.this.address says...
> Tailgating is a subset of driving too close. I often feel that the
> person behind is too close, but I don't regard it as tail gating unless
> I can't see their number plate. And that happens often enough.
>
> Sylvia.
>
I look behind for 4wds. They are too close when I can see their tits.
hippo
>
> http://fat.ly/lchph
>
> JP
>
>
>
>
And still (well, two days ago) the Police walk out onto multi-lane roads
near dusk from both the kerb and the median strip - although reportedly no
longer on freeways - armed with only a blue metal sign and expect the
right car to stop appropriately and in safety for RBT in this case.
However many more officers and motorists die in similar incidents, it
won't be the clowns at the top who refuse to acknowledge reality or common
sense getitng run over any tme soon, will it?
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
D Walford
I would have reported him to workcover and his superiors.
Its no surprise when people who have no regard for theirs or anyone
else's life dies in such circumstances, the only good thing is that no
one else died as a result of the cop's stupidity.
In this case Vic Police must be a bit smarter than their NSW colleagues
as I've never witness's such a dangerous way of traffic policing here.
Daryl
D Walford
> Mot Adv <mot...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>> http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Coroners_Court/ll_coroners.nsf/vwFiles/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf/$file/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf
>
> Read enough of it and you'll discover that it was actually
> tailgating and not speed per se that caused the crash... First
> car gets the "stop police" sign, brakes hard to try to stop where
> the cop was, vehicle behind clips first vehicle and spins it.
>
select few.
Tailgating is a chronic problem in Vic and probably everywhere else in
Aust yet I don't know a single person who has been fined for it in this
country.
Daryl
D Walford
> Athol wrote:
>> Mot Adv <mot...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>> http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Coroners_Court/ll_coroners.nsf/vwFiles/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf/$file/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf
>>>
>>
>> Read enough of it and you'll discover that it was actually
>> tailgating and not speed per se that caused the crash... First
>> car gets the "stop police" sign, brakes hard to try to stop where
>> the cop was, vehicle behind clips first vehicle and spins it.
>>
>
> The word "tailgating" does not appear in the document. What is known is
> that the following driver was not able stop in time in the situation he
> encountered.
>
akin to tailgating.
> While the law is that one has to travel behind at a distance that allows
> one to stop, one doesn't expect the vehicle in front to brake hard in
> the outside lane of a freeway.
You might not "expect" it but you must be prepared for that very
scenario to occur by keeping your distance and paying attention.
There's more than the problem of reaction
> times involved, brake lights don't indicate anything other than that the
> brakes have been applied to some degree. It can take considerable time
> to realise that the vehicle in front is decelerating rapidly and
> continuously.
>
> I'm surprised that operations of this sort are/were ever undertaken. It
> seems obvious that it will create more danger than the alleged modest
> speeding will (eg 130 in a 110 zone). Maniacs driving at much higher
> speeds could be stopped by other means.
Driving at 20 kph over the speed limit is hardly cause for calling
someone a "maniac", following too close and not paying enough attention
is though.
Daryl
Sylvia Else
People probably have been, but it would be a difficult one to enforce.
How do you get a tailgater to stop without stopping the guy in front,
who's done nothing wrong, and without a significant risk of causing an
accident?
Indeed, if you do stop the guy in front, the tailgater will immediately
change lanes, and become all the more difficult to stop.
This is probably a good candidate for camera based enforcement, but you
can imagine the fuss that would cause. It would also require a change to
the law.
Sylvia.
D Walford
> In article <0084a3b5$0$17039$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> syl...@not.at.this.address says...
>> While the law is that one has to travel behind at a distance that allows
>> one to stop, one doesn't expect the vehicle in front to brake hard in
>> the outside lane of a freeway.
>>
> Yes.. well.. the law should state, if following a chain driven motorcycle please
> leave room to stop in case the chain comes off and locks the back wheel and puts
> the rider on the road.
> If following a truck with a load something may fall off.
> etc.. Maybe I could write a list why following too closely is dangerous.
>
> My main agro with drivers following is why are the majority tailgaters, ie:
> fucking stupid?
>
Bloody good question Al, I've driven about 2000klms in an 8 tonne truck
recently and the number of cars that sit so close to the truck at 100kph
that they can't be seen in the mirrors (less than 5mtrs) is staggering,
if I had to brake suddenly they would hit the back of the truck long
before they hit their own brake pedal.
Daryl
Albm&ctd
syl...@not.at.this.address says...
they would have to do to enforce it.
You don't work for the Gov do you?
D Walford
> D Walford wrote:
>> Athol wrote:
>>> Mot Adv <mot...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>>> http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Coroners_Court/ll_coroners.nsf/vwFiles/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf/$file/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf
>>>>
>>>
>>> Read enough of it and you'll discover that it was actually
>>> tailgating and not speed per se that caused the crash... First
>>> car gets the "stop police" sign, brakes hard to try to stop where
>>> the cop was, vehicle behind clips first vehicle and spins it.
>>>
>> All the more reason for cops to enforce all road rules and not just a
>> select few.
>> Tailgating is a chronic problem in Vic and probably everywhere else in
>> Aust yet I don't know a single person who has been fined for it in
>> this country.
>
> People probably have been, but it would be a difficult one to enforce.
> How do you get a tailgater to stop without stopping the guy in front,
> who's done nothing wrong, and without a significant risk of causing an
> accident?
Not difficult at all if driving a Police car, just get the behind the
offender and turn on your lights and siren.
>
> Indeed, if you do stop the guy in front, the tailgater will immediately
> change lanes, and become all the more difficult to stop.
Any sort of traffic enforcement whilst standing on the side of the road
is crazy and asking for big trouble.
Daryl
Sylvia Else
> Sylvia Else wrote:
>> D Walford wrote:
>>> Athol wrote:
>>>> Mot Adv <mot...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Coroners_Court/ll_coroners.nsf/vwFiles/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf/$file/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read enough of it and you'll discover that it was actually
>>>> tailgating and not speed per se that caused the crash... First
>>>> car gets the "stop police" sign, brakes hard to try to stop where
>>>> the cop was, vehicle behind clips first vehicle and spins it.
>>>>
>>> All the more reason for cops to enforce all road rules and not just a
>>> select few.
>>> Tailgating is a chronic problem in Vic and probably everywhere else
>>> in Aust yet I don't know a single person who has been fined for it in
>>> this country.
>>
>> People probably have been, but it would be a difficult one to enforce.
>> How do you get a tailgater to stop without stopping the guy in front,
>> who's done nothing wrong, and without a significant risk of causing an
>> accident?
>
> Not difficult at all if driving a Police car, just get the behind the
> offender and turn on your lights and siren.
You have to spot an offender, and then get behind him. It's very time
consuming, which makes enforcement expensive.
Sylvia.
Sylvia Else
It can be quite effective, and in some cases seems entirely justified.
Just because speed cameras are questionably used doesn't make all camera
based enforcement nothing more than revenue raising.
Few people take exception to red light cameras, for example.
Sylvia.
Sylvia Else
> Sylvia Else wrote:
>> Athol wrote:
>>> Mot Adv <mot...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>>> http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Coroners_Court/ll_coroners.nsf/vwFiles/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf/$file/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf
>>>>
>>>
>>> Read enough of it and you'll discover that it was actually
>>> tailgating and not speed per se that caused the crash... First
>>> car gets the "stop police" sign, brakes hard to try to stop where
>>> the cop was, vehicle behind clips first vehicle and spins it.
>>>
>>
>> The word "tailgating" does not appear in the document. What is known
>> is that the following driver was not able stop in time in the
>> situation he encountered.
>>
> Which means he was following to close to enable him to stop which is
> akin to tailgating.
At 110km/h, 45 metres is much too close, but few would call it tailgaiting.
>
>> While the law is that one has to travel behind at a distance that
>> allows one to stop, one doesn't expect the vehicle in front to brake
>> hard in the outside lane of a freeway.
>
> You might not "expect" it but you must be prepared for that very
> scenario to occur by keeping your distance and paying attention.
Well, it's easy to say, but humans aren't automata, and they don't work
that way. Perceptions are affected by expectations. Making vehicles
brake hard in any lane of a freeway is just plain dangerous.
Sylvia.
Noddy
"D Walford" <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:03190b21$0$1274$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> All the more reason for cops to enforce all road rules and not just a
> select few.
> Tailgating is a chronic problem in Vic and probably everywhere else in
> Aust yet I don't know a single person who has been fined for it in this
> country.
I have :)
I had some dickless Tracy pull me over on the F-19 freeway about ten years
ago and book me for "following too closely" which according to him was
tailgating. I wasn't actually tailgating, but moving up on a slower car in
my lane and about to change lanes and pass it when there was a car in the
outside lane moving quicker & coming up too close for me to pull out and
pass, so I waited the 5 seconds for him to go through and moved to the right
lane after he did.
The copper, a Toggie booking people using the transit lane on the other side
when they weren't supposed to, crossed over the freeway and turned around to
pull me over and give me a ticket. When I laughed and told him he was a
fucking idiot he gave me *another* ticket for 114km/h in a 100 zone which
was complete bullshit as I had the cruise set to 100 and when I was
"tailgating" as he claimed I'd slowed to the slower car's speed of around 90
before I could move out and pass.
I told him he was a useless cocksucker and that he should stop taking it up
the arse as it made his head look like a traffic cone, but it cost me 300
bucks for the privilege.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Albm&ctd
syl...@not.at.this.address says...
with a fine.
The victim of the offender doesn't get any satisfaction unless they send a
notice to them.
Wouldn't it be better to wait 'till they stop at the lights, go back and kick
them in the nuts (and that's just the women).
Albm&ctd
says...
>
> I told him he was a useless cocksucker and that he should stop taking it up
> the arse as it made his head look like a traffic cone, but it cost me 300
> bucks for the privilege.
>
suppose.
Sylvia Else
The law isn't about providing satisfaction to victims, but about deterence.
Going back and kicking a vulnerable part of the anatomy has the
disavantages that is:
a) Unlawful, and merits (in a legal sense, at least) a punishment vastly
in excess of that of tailgaiting, and
b) the intended recipient of that attack may be more than capable of
dealing with it, even if they are female, and
c) very likely futile. Sod's law says that the lights will change and
they'll overtake, long before you managed to reach them.
However, if you want to piss a tailgater off, brake suddenly. I did that
once. The guy pulled out, overtook me, pulled back into my lane and did
the same himself. Mind you, I'd forseen his actions, and was a long way
behind, which must have pissed him off even more. Apparently, tailgaters
don't use their mirrors either.
Sylvia.
D Walford
That's hardly an excuse for not doing their job but its most likely the
reason they don't, its not revenue positive and we all know that that is
what traffic policing's main aim is.
Traffic policing using the method described in the report may be more
cost effective but its also suicidal.
Daryl
D Walford
No question about that, the senior police who ordered such a thing
should be held to account for the death of their officer and for
endangering drivers.
Daryl
D Walford
> "D Walford" <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
> news:03190b21$0$1274$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>
>> All the more reason for cops to enforce all road rules and not just a
>> select few.
>> Tailgating is a chronic problem in Vic and probably everywhere else in
>> Aust yet I don't know a single person who has been fined for it in this
>> country.
>
> I have :)
Good on him:-)
>
> I had some dickless Tracy pull me over on the F-19 freeway about ten years
> ago and book me for "following too closely" which according to him was
> tailgating. I wasn't actually tailgating, but moving up on a slower car in
> my lane and about to change lanes and pass it when there was a car in the
> outside lane moving quicker & coming up too close for me to pull out and
> pass, so I waited the 5 seconds for him to go through and moved to the right
> lane after he did.
>
> The copper, a Toggie booking people using the transit lane on the other side
> when they weren't supposed to, crossed over the freeway and turned around to
> pull me over and give me a ticket. When I laughed and told him he was a
> fucking idiot he gave me *another* ticket for 114km/h in a 100 zone which
> was complete bullshit as I had the cruise set to 100 and when I was
> "tailgating" as he claimed I'd slowed to the slower car's speed of around 90
> before I could move out and pass.
>
> I told him he was a useless cocksucker and that he should stop taking it up
> the arse as it made his head look like a traffic cone, but it cost me 300
> bucks for the privilege.
I know the feeling having giving some young smart arse copper the
mouthful of abuse he no doubt deserved but it sure is costly:-)
Daryl
Noddy
"Albm&ctd" <alb_mand...@connexus.net.au> wrote in message
news:MPG.2573d88ff...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Then he went home, sulked, took out his entire family and then topped
> himself I
> suppose.
One can only hope.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> I know the feeling having giving some young smart arse copper the mouthful
> of abuse he no doubt deserved but it sure is costly:-)
It surely is :)
For the record, I *don't* tailgate and don't like it when others do it to
me. What I got pinched for that day wasn't tailgating, but doing what
thousands of other normal law abiding motorists do using freeways everyday.
The only reason I got a couple of tickets was that the pig had come to the
end of his run in Collingwood and thought it'd be nice to rack up a few as
he turned around and made his way back towards Doncaster.
Hope his radar gives him cancer :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Bernd Felsche
Spotting an offender is NOT difficult. I see several per kilometre
travelled.
>It's very time consuming, which makes enforcement expensive.
But you only have to do it about 100 times a week in a population
of millions to get the message through.
You don't have to catch every offender.
You only need to be perceived to be watching for the offence.
A long time ago, I posted a suggestion of automated enforcement
which would catch every offender at a particular location. That
could be useful on the approaches to e.g. bridges and tunnels.
But being tied to a location otherwise only produces meaningless
KPI.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Politics is the art of looking for trouble,
X against HTML mail | finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly
/ \ and postings | and applying the wrong remedies - Groucho Marx
D Walford
> Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>> D Walford wrote:
>>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> D Walford wrote:
>
>>>>> Tailgating is a chronic problem in Vic and probably everywhere
>>>>> else in Aust yet I don't know a single person who has been
>>>>> fined for it in this country.
>
>>>> People probably have been, but it would be a difficult one to
>>>> enforce. How do you get a tailgater to stop without stopping
>>>> the guy in front, who's done nothing wrong, and without a
>>>> significant risk of causing an accident?
>
>>> Not difficult at all if driving a Police car, just get the behind
>>> the offender and turn on your lights and siren.
>
>> You have to spot an offender, and then get behind him.
>
> Spotting an offender is NOT difficult. I see several per kilometre
> travelled.
They aren't difficult to find, the problem is very serious IMO but it
seems to be ignored by police.
>
>> It's very time consuming, which makes enforcement expensive.
>
> But you only have to do it about 100 times a week in a population
> of millions to get the message through.
>
> You don't have to catch every offender.
> You only need to be perceived to be watching for the offence.
Exactly.
Daryl
Sylvia Else
> Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>
>>>> The word "tailgating" does not appear in the document. What is known
>>>> is that the following driver was not able stop in time in the
>>>> situation he encountered.
>
>>> Which means he was following to close to enable him to stop which is
>>> akin to tailgating.
>
>> At 110km/h, 45 metres is much too close, but few would call it tailgaiting.
>
> at the wheel, then 45 metres is entirely adequate at 110km/h. It's
> nearly 1.5 seconds.
Which is well below the recommended 2 seconds.
Sylvia.
Sylvia Else
> "D Walford" <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
> news:0093300a$0$26890$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>
>> I know the feeling having giving some young smart arse copper the mouthful
>> of abuse he no doubt deserved but it sure is costly:-)
>
> It surely is :)
>
> For the record, I *don't* tailgate and don't like it when others do it to
> me. What I got pinched for that day wasn't tailgating, but doing what
> thousands of other normal law abiding motorists do using freeways everyday.
I know what you mean, and we'd often end up a long way from our intended
destination if we didn't do it. But it may still not be lawful.
Sylvia.
XR8 Sprintless
But most modern cars can come to a complete stop from 110km/h in 45
metres or not much more. The problem is reaction time and most people
late in the afternoon have slow reaction times. If it takes you 1 second
to react then you have travelled 30 metres already. A driver who is
concentrating will react within .2 of a second which is about 6 metres
then add the 45 to 50 metres for a complete stop that gives you a
stopping distance of around 55 metres for a driver who is on the ball.
Most people arent and could need up to 100mtrs to stop.
I hit and killed a roo one afternoon whilst towing a boat. I braked
immediately I saw the roo jump from the trees on the side of the road
and total distance was only 70 metres from where I saw the roo to where
I was stopped off the side of the road.
The problem is that people on freeways are not expecting the unexpected
and you often see multi vehicle pileups because of a lack of concentration.
Bernd Felsche
Well below? About half a second. Which is very difficult for most
people to estimate accurately; without practice and feedback.
It's still easier to judge than the distance recommended; 7
car-lengths. Or in Germany, 55 metres ("half-speedometer").
But 45 metres is still above the technically-safe interval for
reaction times (0.7 seconds average for an alert adult + 0.3 seconds
for mechanical delays).
Sylvia Else
> Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>> Bernd Felsche wrote:
>>> Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>>> D Walford wrote:
>>>>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>
>>>>>> The word "tailgating" does not appear in the document. What is
>>>>>> known is that the following driver was not able stop in time
>>>>>> in the situation he encountered.
>
>>>>> Which means he was following to close to enable him to stop
>>>>> which is akin to tailgating.
>
>>>> At 110km/h, 45 metres is much too close, but few would call it
>>>> tailgaiting.
>
>>> Codswallop. If you're driving the car instead of being a
>>> passenger at the wheel, then 45 metres is entirely adequate at
>>> 110km/h. It's nearly 1.5 seconds.
>
>> Which is well below the recommended 2 seconds.
>
> Well below? About half a second. Which is very difficult for most
> people to estimate accurately; without practice and feedback.
> It's still easier to judge than the distance recommended; 7
> car-lengths. Or in Germany, 55 metres ("half-speedometer").
>
> But 45 metres is still above the technically-safe interval for
> reaction times (0.7 seconds average for an alert adult + 0.3 seconds
> for mechanical delays).
If 0.7 seconds is the average, then it means that a substantial
proportion of drivers do worse than that.
Sylvia.
Shane
"veritas" <ver...@jjgf.com> wrote in message news:hea5js$lkj$1...@aioe.org...
> XR8 Sprintless wrote:
>> Mot Adv wrote:
>>> http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Coroners_Court/ll_coroners.nsf/vwFiles/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf/$file/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf
>>
>> Interesting read. I can concur with the Coroner in regards to operating
>> from the right hand lane being inherently dangerous. I recall on evening
>> travelling home around midnight on a 3 lane section of road and seeing a
>> RBT operating on the left. I was in the right hand lane having just come
>> around a corner and glanced to the left to see if any officers were
>> coming across to pull me over. A movement from the centre island caught
>> my attention and I noticed an officer in standard uniform without
>> reflective vest holding up a stop sign around 30 metres in front of my
>> vehicle. I came to a rapid halt then pulled across to the left of the
>> road to have said officer come across and abuse the shit out of me for my
>> rapid stop. I suggested to him most vehemently that to step out from the
>> centre island into the middle of the road without reflective clothing
>> holding a stop sign when there was very little ambient lighting made him
>> extremely difficult to see and he should be very thankful that I
>> responded as quickly as I had to the situation and he was still alive. A
>> breath test reading of 0.0 and a clean driving record checked and he let
>> me go with a warning to pay more attention. My response was to indicate
>> that he should have been using a torch stopper not a stop sign and he was
>> very lucky I was paying attention.
>
>
> It is surprising that he did not reply; "I'll take you to the police
> station if you want to argue".
>
>
> Police get to play God without challenge for so long, they get to believe
> that they are - and will not accept any opinion not to their liking.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Jeßus
ast...@internode.on.net said...
:
:"veritas" <ver...@jjgf.com> wrote in message news:hea5js$lkj$1...@aioe.org...
One of the gods is sleeping... apparently :)
Shane
Has absolutely nothing to do with it. No LAC recovers ANY revenue from
infringement action or any other action for that matter. The only police
branch to benefit from any enforcement would be the drug squad. This is a
VERY old and tired argument. You should know better :)
> Traffic policing using the method described in the report may be more cost
> effective but its also suicidal.
Nobody lasts forever :)
Shane
"Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4b093189$0$37088$c30e...@exi-reader.telstra.net...
Your bullshit hero stories have never changed have they? I would love to see
the ICV of this actual traffic stop. The sight of your bottom lip quivering
before your eyes glazed over would have been worth the cost of entry alone.
:) And no there was nobody cutting onions nearby :)
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
>
Shane
The entire traffic stop would have been captured on ICV you belter. :) Take
it to court little girl :)
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
>
Jeßus
ast...@internode.on.net said...
:
:"Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
Cue jonz and that other girl...
Shane
"Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.2574ea7e8...@news.x-privat.org...
I haven't had a good sleep for quite some time. A mixture of sleep apnoea,
staying up laying online poker and downloading too much porn. Then a had a
thought, I wonder if aus.cars is still up and running and I'm totally
stuffed already after reading two posts :)
Jeßus
ast...@internode.on.net said...
:
:"Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
Depends on how long ago it happened?
Shane
That's very true, he has an entire archive of bullshit stories going way
back. I stand corrected.
>
Feral
> Your bullshit hero stories have never changed have they? I would love to see
> the ICV of this actual traffic stop. The sight of your bottom lip quivering
> before your eyes glazed over would have been worth the cost of entry alone.
> :) And no there was nobody cutting onions nearby :)
You've mellowed. :-P
--
Take Care. ~~
Feral Al ( @..@)
(\- :-P -/)
((.>__oo__<.))
^^^ % ^^^
Jeßus
ast...@internode.on.net said...
:
:"Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
Fair enough :)
Jeßus
ast...@internode.on.net said...
:
:"Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
:> In article <0093c245$0$26904$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
:> ast...@internode.on.net said...
:> :
:> :"veritas" <ver...@jjgf.com> wrote in message
:> :> Police get to play God without challenge for so long, they get to
:> believe
:> :> that they are - and will not accept any opinion not to their liking.
:> :
:> :Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
:>
:>
:> One of the gods is sleeping... apparently :)
:
:I haven't had a good sleep for quite some time. A mixture of sleep apnoea,
:staying up laying online poker and downloading too much porn. Then a had a
:thought, I wonder if aus.cars is still up and running and I'm totally
:stuffed already after reading two posts :)
Save your apnoea for when you're on radar duty... <g>
Noddy
"Shane" <ast...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:0093c6e7$0$26919$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> I haven't had a good sleep for quite some time. A mixture of sleep apnoea,
> staying up laying online poker and downloading too much porn.
Hey! That's *my* life. Get your own, you complete bastard :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> Your bullshit hero stories have never changed have they? I would love to
> see the ICV of this actual traffic stop.
And if you did what would that tell you? That I got pinched for following
too closely and speeding? Would it tell you what *really* happened? :)
> The sight of your bottom lip quivering before your eyes glazed over would
> have been worth the cost of entry alone. :) And no there was nobody
> cutting onions nearby :)
You haven't changed a bit Shane. You're *still* an ignorant little pissant
who thinks everyone who wears a badge is beyond reproach. Your head's been
lodged so firmly up your own backside for so long than if you sneezed you'd
give yourself an appendectomy.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> The entire traffic stop would have been captured on ICV you belter. :)
Do you have trouble with basic English or something?
If you'd bothered to read what I posted you'd see I mentioned that it was
around ten years ago (and probably a it more on reflection) and he was on
the *other* side of the freeway when he saw me "tailgating and speeding".
Even if he *had* a camera in the car back then he wouldn't have caught the
infringement, and he said nothing that would land him in trouble *if* the
conversation was being recorded.
> Take it to court little girl :)
I paid the fine and got on with my Life Shane, and realised that there are
some dead set fucking *moronic* cunts out there working as toggies just as
there are in every other segment of the community.
A view you have trouble accepting, yes?
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> That's very true, he has an entire archive of bullshit stories going way
> back. I stand corrected.
I'm sorry Shane, but what proof do have to suggest that anything I've ever
said isn't true? Oh, sorry, that's right. You used to be a pig, and think
that gives you some incredible ability to judge character.
Fucking idiot....
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> Fair enough :)
Shane's a fucking dickhead. He took offence to me commenting once that there
were *some* members of the TOG in Victoria that were arseholes, and as he
was such a cop in NSW at one stage he took it as a personal insult and
decided to appoint himself unofficial police spokesperson and condemn anyone
who had a bad story to tell about police activity.
The odd thing is that I've never said anything along the lines of "all
coppers are cunts" (anyone remember that song? :) and have a bunch of mates
who are coppers themselves who, for the most part, are great blokes. Shane
just has a major problem accepting that not *everyone* who hands out traffic
infringement notices plays by the rules.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
D Walford
LOL, good to hear from you:-)
I didn't suggest Police make any money for themselves but their
employers (the Govt) make a dollar or two out of traffic policing.
>
>> Traffic policing using the method described in the report may be more cost
>> effective but its also suicidal.
>
> Nobody lasts forever :)
>
>
True but its nuts to go out of your way to top yourself when at work.
Daryl
D Walford
Very unlikely 10 yrs ago in Vic.
Daryl
veritas
>>
>>
>> Police get to play God without challenge for so long, they get to believe
>> that they are - and will not accept any opinion not to their liking.
>
> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Have a nice sleep. If you don't like criticsism of the bullies in your
company (and you know who they are) - do something about it.
Untill the NSW police service improves its public relations - those of
then that do the "right" thing will obviously be tainted by the cowboys
- if only just by association.
No one is born with a "chip" on their shoulder when it comes to blue
uniforms (go figure why this might have changed) - it is just very
refreshing when one meets a member that can carry out a reasonable human
conversation.
>
>
veritas
>>
>>
>> One of the gods is sleeping... apparently :)
>
> I haven't had a good sleep for quite some time. A mixture of sleep apnoea,
> staying up laying online poker and downloading too much porn. Then a had a
> thought, I wonder if aus.cars is still up and running and I'm totally
> stuffed already after reading two posts :)
But that isn't "on Queens business" :)
>
>
F Murtz
Thirty years ago it was the same on the western highway between
Parramatta and Penrith Ordinary police were known to stop people and
warn them of highway patrol up ahead and sure enough they were.
Noddy
"F Murtz" <hag...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4b0a5bb1$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> I think it is just highway patrol that has the bad name.
Generally, but then Drug Squad coppers in Melbourne aren't known for their
honesty :)
> Thirty years ago it was the same on the western highway between Parramatta
> and Penrith Ordinary police were known to stop people and warn them of
> highway patrol up ahead and sure enough they were.
I think you have to *want* to be a traffic cop, and I think the reason for
that is because a fair few of them have ego/power trip/penis envy issues.
Not all of them obviously, but that segment of the police force certainly
has more than it's fair share of fuckwits. If the comments of some of my cop
friends are anything to go by, even regular cops hate Toggies with a passion
:)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Albm&ctd
syl...@not.at.this.address says...
> Albm&ctd wrote:
> > In article <007a77f3$0$8182$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> > syl...@not.at.this.address says...
> >> Albm&ctd wrote:
> >>> In article <0081adaa$0$1565$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> >>> syl...@not.at.this.address says...
> >>>> D Walford wrote:
> >>>>> Athol wrote:
> >>>>>> Mot Adv <mot...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>> http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Coroners_Court/ll_coroners.nsf/vwFiles/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf/$file/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Read enough of it and you'll discover that it was actually
> >>>>>> tailgating and not speed per se that caused the crash... First
> >>>>>> car gets the "stop police" sign, brakes hard to try to stop where
> >>>>>> the cop was, vehicle behind clips first vehicle and spins it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> All the more reason for cops to enforce all road rules and not just a
> >>>>> select few.
> >>>>> Tailgating is a chronic problem in Vic and probably everywhere else in
> >>>>> Aust yet I don't know a single person who has been fined for it in this
> >>>>> country.
> >>>> People probably have been, but it would be a difficult one to enforce.
> >>>> How do you get a tailgater to stop without stopping the guy in front,
> >>>> who's done nothing wrong, and without a significant risk of causing an
> >>>> accident?
> >>>>
> >>>> change lanes, and become all the more difficult to stop.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is probably a good candidate for camera based enforcement, but you
> >>>> can imagine the fuss that would cause. It would also require a change to
> >>>> the law.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sylvia.
> >>>>
> >>> Oh dear, camera based enforcement, this is exactly what QT suggested to me what
> >>> they would have to do to enforce it.
> >>> You don't work for the Gov do you?
> >> It can be quite effective, and in some cases seems entirely justified.
> >> Just because speed cameras are questionably used doesn't make all camera
> >> based enforcement nothing more than revenue raising.
> >>
> >> Few people take exception to red light cameras, for example.
> >>
> >> Sylvia.
> >>
> > Now lets see. Some days after the offence, the tailgating offender may be issued
> > with a fine.
> > The victim of the offender doesn't get any satisfaction unless they send a
> > notice to them.
> > Wouldn't it be better to wait 'till they stop at the lights, go back and kick
> > them in the nuts (and that's just the women).
>
> The law isn't about providing satisfaction to victims, but about deterence.
>
> Going back and kicking a vulnerable part of the anatomy has the
> disavantages that is:
>
> a) Unlawful, and merits (in a legal sense, at least) a punishment vastly
> in excess of that of tailgaiting, and
>
> b) the intended recipient of that attack may be more than capable of
> dealing with it, even if they are female, and
>
> c) very likely futile. Sod's law says that the lights will change and
> they'll overtake, long before you managed to reach them.
>
> However, if you want to piss a tailgater off, brake suddenly. I did that
> once. The guy pulled out, overtook me, pulled back into my lane and did
> the same himself. Mind you, I'd forseen his actions, and was a long way
> behind, which must have pissed him off even more. Apparently, tailgaters
> don't use their mirrors either.
>
> Sylvia.
>
Brake suddenly? Motorcycles can do that but it's not recommended in front of a
tailgater.
Even in a car you could end up a quad.
Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html
Albm&ctd
says...
>
> "Albm&ctd" <alb_mand...@connexus.net.au> wrote in message
> news:MPG.2573d88ff...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > Then he went home, sulked, took out his entire family and then topped
> > himself I
> > suppose.
>
> One can only hope.
>
If you had his email you could have typed him to death :-)
Noddy
> If you had his email you could have typed him to death :-)
Now there's an idea :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Albm&ctd
says...
> But most modern cars can come to a complete stop from 110km/h in 45
> metres or not much more.
>
My Lada Niva used to take 3.5 football fields but then I didn't tailgate.
Maybe people should buy cars with less effective brakes.
hippo
>
>
> "Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
> news:MPG.2574ea7e8...@news.x-privat.org...
> > In article <0093c245$0$26904$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> > ast...@internode.on.net said...
> > :
> > :"veritas" <ver...@jjgf.com> wrote in message
> > news:hea5js$lkj$1...@aioe.org...
> > :> XR8 Sprintless wrote:
> > :>> Mot Adv wrote:
> > :>>>
If you reckon *that* stuffed you, go back a few weeks and look for "Which
Pommy car did you own, and like". Cheers
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
hippo
>
> In article <0081cbbf$0$1580$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> syl...@not.at.this.address says...
> > Albm&ctd wrote:
> > > In article <007a77f3$0$8182$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> > > syl...@not.at.this.address says...
> > >> Albm&ctd wrote:
> > >>> In article <0081adaa$0$1565$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> > >>> syl...@not.at.this.address says...
> > >>>> D Walford wrote:
> > >>>>> Athol wrote:
> > >>>>>> Mot Adv <mot...@internode.on.net> wrote:
What works better is: brake a couple of times just enough to prove your
brakelights work, then change down, clutch in, handbrake on with the
button held in, release it, clutch out and accelerate.
Enjoy receding vision of very nose down vehicle 10m away in your mirror.
Err... probably best to check that there's nothing behind *them* first
though. Cheers
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
Bernd Felsche
>Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Where've you been hiding?
How are the knees?
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Politics is the art of looking for trouble,
X against HTML mail | finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly
/ \ and postings | and applying the wrong remedies - Groucho Marx
Sylvia Else
> Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>
>> Bernd Felsche wrote:
>>> Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>>> Bernd Felsche wrote:
>>>>> Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>>>>> D Walford wrote:
>>>>>>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> known is that the following driver was not able stop in time
>>>>>>>> in the situation he encountered.
>
>>>>>>> Which means he was following to close to enable him to stop
>>>>>>> which is akin to tailgating.
>>>>>> At 110km/h, 45 metres is much too close, but few would call it
>>>>>> tailgaiting.
>
>>>>> Codswallop. If you're driving the car instead of being a
>>>>> passenger at the wheel, then 45 metres is entirely adequate at
>>>>> 110km/h. It's nearly 1.5 seconds.
>
>>>> Which is well below the recommended 2 seconds.
>
>>> Well below? About half a second. Which is very difficult for most
>>> people to estimate accurately; without practice and feedback.
>>> It's still easier to judge than the distance recommended; 7
>>> car-lengths. Or in Germany, 55 metres ("half-speedometer").
>
>>> But 45 metres is still above the technically-safe interval for
>>> reaction times (0.7 seconds average for an alert adult + 0.3 seconds
>>> for mechanical delays).
>
>> If 0.7 seconds is the average, then it means that a substantial
>> proportion of drivers do worse than that.
>
> A little. The documented range for reaction times ranges from 0.3
> seconds to 1.7. The latter includes the elderly, sick, intoxicated,
> (drugged,) fatigued and distracted reacting with poor motor skills
> on poorly-aranged mechanical control to events in their peripheral
> perception. I know that that describes a high proportion of vehicle
> operators on Australian roads, but it need not be so.
My point, lest it was missed, was that even on the figure you quoted, a
subtantial proportion of drivers would be unsafe with a gap of 45 metres.
Sylvia.
Bernd Felsche
Unsafe? Where's the carnage??
Did you read the documents?
It is VERY important to keep a clear distinction between reaction
times evaluated from non-crash situations and those from crash
situations. Crash analysts will allow up to 3.5 seconds in
estimating the vehicle operator's reaction time. But that is no
proof that that was the reaction time leading to the crash.
The study of reaction times of over 1000 subjects clearly shows
reaction times clustered below 0.7 seconds. If reaction times are
substantially above 1 second, then the person is not fit to drive.
Allowing for the lowest common denominator in regulations means that
those regulated will sink below that level. We've seen this with
speed limit enforcement. Tailgating is one subconscious reaction to
compensate risk.
Sylvia Else
The carnage happens when some other event occurs. Even true tailgaters
get away with it most of the time, or they'd very quickly learn not to
do it.
>
> Did you read the documents?
No. I was criticising your argument, which took an average and treated
it as if it was the value applicable to all drivers.
Sylvia.
F Murtz
appeared the vehicle being tailgated is also still moving so that the
distance between vehicles is not the distance needed to stop.
if the distance between vehicles is the reaction time only, unless the
tailgated vehicle has better brakes or hits an immovable object then no
bingle ,just annoyed driver being tailgated.
Bernd Felsche
And you failed to read the documented evidence that supports the 0.7
seconds to be an appropriate measure.
Are you Penny Wong?
Sylvia Else
You said it was an average, and then claimed that, based on the 0.7
seconds, 45 metres was sufficient.
I don't see what the documents can possibly say to justify your argument.
They may, or may not, support the position that 45 metres is sufficient,
but even if they do, that wouldn't make your line of reasoning valid.
Sylvia.
Fraser Johnston
As if you play poker Noddy. : P
Fraser
Noddy
"Fraser Johnston" <ftr...@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:7n40auF...@mid.individual.net...
> As if you play poker Noddy. : P
Actually I enjoy a good card game, but I've never played online. I prefer to
see the folding up close.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Albm&ctd
mot...@internode.on.net says...
> http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Coroners_Court/ll_coroners.nsf/vwFiles/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf/$file/WilsonFinding25August09.pdf
>
> JP
>
"66. It is self-evident that the motorists streaming along the ?flight-deck?
well above the speed limit at more than 130 kph did not expect to see police
there. They were, therefore, not on the lookout for signs of police
presence. Had they been they would almost certainly have been
travelling less quickly."
That's why police would hide and pounce.
Maybe they should advertise their presence with large flashing neon signs 2 km
before the 'trap', maybe even apply a 40 km/h speed limit sign that other road
workers have for health and safety reasons...
even if nobody is actually working grrrr :-)
Just think, if that road was 130 km/h limited or no speed limit applied (like
the NT used to be), then the Scotsman would be still alive with no so called
*speeding* offence commited so no need to stop those vehicles. Therefore a
higher speed limit in this case would have *saved* a life. If one life is
saved.. blah blah, right back at the crock of shit - speed kills - spin doctors.
As far as I can see, the only hazard to all concerned and the cause of this
officers death was the relentless government revenue raising exercise, having
police leaping out like demented roos in a place known to them as a hot spot
because of its favourable conditions ie: wide multilaned road with good
visibility.
hippo
>
> In article <009203b8$0$26864$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> mot...@internode.on.net says...
Liverpool (UK) Police in the 60s did virtually that. A large sign saying
'Warning, police speed check in operation" was put up about 2-400M before
where the car was parked, with sometimes a 2nd one closer in. It didn't
stop my dad and his partner clocking the same doctor *3* times in three
different parts of the city on the same day though. Of course it was all
Police Harrassment!
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
Shane
"Feral" <plo...@home.ru> wrote in message
news:hedg1i$mjd$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Shane wrote:
>
>> Your bullshit hero stories have never changed have they? I would love to
>> see
>> the ICV of this actual traffic stop. The sight of your bottom lip
>> quivering
>> before your eyes glazed over would have been worth the cost of entry
>> alone.
>> :) And no there was nobody cutting onions nearby :)
>
> You've mellowed. :-P
That I have. No more pressure playing the good guy anymore. I'm here for the
spectator sport only :)
>
> --
> Take Care. ~~
> Feral Al ( @..@)
> (\- :-P -/)
> ((.>__oo__<.))
> ^^^ % ^^^
Shane
>
> "Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
> news:MPG.2574ef062...@news.x-privat.org...
>
>> Fair enough :)
>
> Shane's a fucking dickhead.
Handled with the same eloquence you're renown for bonehead! Well done to
you.
He took offence to me commenting once that there
> were *some* members of the TOG in Victoria that were arseholes,
No, I just took offence to you period!
and as he
> was such a cop in NSW at one stage he took it as a personal insult and
> decided to appoint himself unofficial police spokesperson and condemn
> anyone who had a bad story to tell about police activity.
Only the known bullshit ones. Somebody had to keep the myths to a reasonable
level.
>
> The odd thing is that I've never said anything along the lines of "all
> coppers are cunts"
You've come pretty close to it though.
(anyone remember that song? :) and have a bunch of mates
> who are coppers themselves who, for the most part, are great blokes. Shane
> just has a major problem accepting that not *everyone* who hands out
> traffic infringement notices plays by the rules.
You see my greatest issue with you and your stories goes along the line
of..... when I'm not at work (was at work) I was a driver the same as you. I
didn't get hauled over the side of the road and bashed, I didn't get stopped
and abused and I never got loaded up for anything. You on the other hand
experienced all three things in one day. That should tell you something? :)
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
>
>
>
Shane
> In article <0093c6e7$0$26919$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> ast...@internode.on.net said...
> :
> :"Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
> :news:MPG.2574ea7e8...@news.x-privat.org...
> :> In article <0093c245$0$26904$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> :> ast...@internode.on.net said...
> :> :
> :> :"veritas" <ver...@jjgf.com> wrote in message
> :> :> Police get to play God without challenge for so long, they get to
> :> believe
> :> :> that they are - and will not accept any opinion not to their liking.
> :> :
> :> :Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> :>
> :>
> :> One of the gods is sleeping... apparently :)
> :I haven't had a good sleep for quite some time. A mixture of sleep
> apnoea,
> :staying up laying online poker and downloading too much porn. Then a had
> :thought, I wonder if aus.cars is still up and running and I'm totally
> :stuffed already after reading two posts :)
>
Used to, I'm now a slave for.......err well me. I'm self employed. No more
electromagnetic headaches for me and I no longer glow in the dark. People
keep asking about that particular party trick.
>
>
>
Shane
>
>> That's very true, he has an entire archive of bullshit stories going way
>> back. I stand corrected.
>
> I'm sorry Shane, but what proof do have to suggest that anything I've ever
> said isn't true? Oh, sorry, that's right. You used to be a pig, and think
> that gives you some incredible ability to judge character.
>
> Fucking idiot....
Consider yourself re-judged. Similar report card to last time I'm afraid.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
>
Shane
"hippo" <am9obmhAc2hvYWwubmV0LmF1@REGISTERED_USER_usenet.com.au> wrote in
message news:hee24d$nha$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I wish I had been involved in that particular post, I could have
said............errrr none and none! :)
>
> --
> Posted at www.usenet.com.au
Shane
"Bernd Felsche" <ber...@innovative.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:1mqqt6x...@innovative.iinet.net.au...
> "Shane" <ast...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>
>>Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
>
> Where've you been hiding?
>
> How are the knees?
Well I don't have to grovel anymore so they're on the improve. I do 80% of
my work at home now. And 90% of that in my underpants so it can't be all
that bad. I feel like I've come back in here where it left off years ago :)
Hows things? Seen Dennis? Wonder if he is an ETS man?
Noddy
> Handled with the same eloquence you're renown for bonehead! Well done to
> you.
You're welcome.
> No, I just took offence to you period!
What a shame.
> Only the known bullshit ones. Somebody had to keep the myths to a
> reasonable level.
And you're *just* the upholder of truth, justice and the American way that
we need to do that, right?
For fuck's sake....
> You've come pretty close to it though.
Absolute bullshit.
I've said a number of times I've met some *cunts* of coppers and some bloody
great ones, and count 3 or 4 cops of various ranks and areas of the force
amongst my close friends. I've never said a*all* cops are bad, just that
they're no different to any other demographic in that there is good *and*
bad amongst them. Your problem seems to be that you accept the good but
can't get your head around the bad, and take the "bad" as a personal insult.
Perhaps there's something in that :)
> You see my greatest issue with you and your stories goes along the line
> of..... when I'm not at work (was at work) I was a driver the same as you.
> I didn't get hauled over the side of the road and bashed, I didn't get
> stopped and abused and I never got loaded up for anything. You on the
> other hand experienced all three things in one day. That should tell you
> something? :)
Yeah, it tells me that as soon as you got pulled over and it became known
that you were a "member" you were probably given the secret nose touch and
sent on your merry way :)
Seriously, if that's your basic argument behind your suggestion that my
comments are "bullshit" then the police force and general public are
probably better off without you.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> Consider yourself re-judged. Similar report card to last time I'm afraid.
Do you mean "I haven't got anything"?
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Albm&ctd
says...
>
> "Jeßus" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
> > In article <0093c6e7$0$26919$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> > ast...@internode.on.net said...
> > :
> > :news:MPG.2574ea7e8...@news.x-privat.org...
> > :> In article <0093c245$0$26904$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> > :> ast...@internode.on.net said...
> > :> :
> > :> :"veritas" <ver...@jjgf.com> wrote in message
> > <snip>
> > :> :> Police get to play God without challenge for so long, they get to
> > :> believe
> > :> :> that they are - and will not accept any opinion not to their liking.
> > :> :
> > :> :Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> > :>
> > :>
> > :> One of the gods is sleeping... apparently :)
> > :
> > :I haven't had a good sleep for quite some time. A mixture of sleep
> > apnoea,
> > :staying up laying online poker and downloading too much porn. Then a had
> > a
> > :thought, I wonder if aus.cars is still up and running and I'm totally
> > :stuffed already after reading two posts :)
> >
> > Save your apnoea for when you're on radar duty... <g>
>
> Used to, I'm now a slave for.......err well me. I'm self employed. No more
> electromagnetic headaches for me and I no longer glow in the dark. People
> keep asking about that particular party trick.
>
depressed to commit suicide. Can't be too careful these days. If one life is
saved blah blah.
Albm&ctd
says...
>
> "Bernd Felsche" <ber...@innovative.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
> news:1mqqt6x...@innovative.iinet.net.au...
> > "Shane" <ast...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> >
> > Where've you been hiding?
> >
> > How are the knees?
>
> Well I don't have to grovel anymore so they're on the improve. I do 80% of
> my work at home now. And 90% of that in my underpants so it can't be all
> that bad. I feel like I've come back in here where it left off years ago :)
> Hows things? Seen Dennis? Wonder if he is an ETS man?
>
Assuming you are talking about Extra Terrestrial Syndrome.
Albm&ctd
says...
>
> "Feral" <plo...@home.ru> wrote in message
> news:hedg1i$mjd$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> > Shane wrote:
> >
> >> Your bullshit hero stories have never changed have they? I would love to
> >> see
> >> the ICV of this actual traffic stop. The sight of your bottom lip
> >> quivering
> >> before your eyes glazed over would have been worth the cost of entry
> >> alone.
> >> :) And no there was nobody cutting onions nearby :)
> >
> > You've mellowed. :-P
>
> That I have. No more pressure playing the good guy anymore. I'm here for the
> spectator sport only :)
>
on the arse.. even though I'm pretty and you want to. Try Athol, admits to cross
dressing. I hear he is stunning in a frock.
atec7 7
>>
> Linny and I still love you Shane.. just in case you were going orf all
> depressed to commit suicide. Can't be too careful these days. If one life is
> saved blah blah.
>
> Al
If anything was intended to drive the expig into suicide that's the one
Al you sonovabitch :)
Bernd Felsche
>>>Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
>>
>> Where've you been hiding?
>>
>> How are the knees?
>Well I don't have to grovel anymore so they're on the improve. I do
>80% of my work at home now. And 90% of that in my underpants so it
>can't be all
Urghhhhhhhhhh.... too much detail. :-)
>that bad. I feel like I've come back in here where it left off
>years ago :) Hows things? Seen Dennis? Wonder if he is an ETS man?
Dennis is spending a lot of Question Time outside of the House
because he's such a naughty boy. :-)
He is of course a trenchant realist and won't have a bar of the
stupid ETS. He has a science background (and previous employment at
CSIRO) that lets him sniff out a bogus-science scam quite rapidly.
You may have been kept in the dark about recent developments in "the
science". Documents prepared for FOI requests were leaked and they
will be, IMO, as earth-shattering as the opening of the Berlin Wall.
<http://joannenova.com.au/2009/11/the-hacked-hadley-documents/>
It appears that the "scientists" have colluded unlawfully to
manipulate and fabricate data,so that the reports can show suitably
"scary" results, to continue fuelling their gravy train and to
promote their view of the world.
The emails saved to the FOIA archive contain quotes as recent as
this month; where the "science is settled" researchers discuss how
they can explain away the recent lack of warming; recognizing that
they are nowhere near understanding where the energy is going.
It seems that temperatures have risen much more quickly for them
than they expected because their goose is cooked.
BTW:
I've finished the first-cut of my (2007) holiday DVD (vol 1) which
includes lots of driving scenes from Germany, Switzerland and some
Austria, complete with bi-lingual subtitles. Let me know your postal
address and I'll put a copy in the mail for you.
I may have a lot of free time next year if the ALP manages somehow
to ram-rod the CPRS through Senate tomorrow. There's no sense in me
continuing to operate a business when I'm already having trouble
complying with existing legislated obligations. Post-viral chronic
fatigue is hard enough to manage without additional bullshit.
jonz
well..well!.....g`day Shane....;^)
>
>
>
>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Noddy.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
jonz
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." - Gene
Spafford,1992
ti...@beerlover.com
> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
G'Day Shane, ever catch up with Spooky these days?
Feral
Now that's a leading question. :-)
Atheist Chaplain
news:7n8j20F...@mid.individual.net...
> Shane wrote:
>
>> You see my greatest issue with you and your stories goes along the
>> line of..... when I'm not at work (was at work) I was a driver the
>> same as you. I didn't get hauled over the side of the road and
>> bashed, I didn't get stopped and abused and I never got loaded up for
>> anything. You on the other hand experienced all three things in one
>> day. That should tell you something? :)
>
>
>
> --
> Dyna
>
> All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged.
>
Actually I know a few plods (Some long time friends and fairly highly ranked
now) who have received speeding tickets in the past even when it is obvious
to the ticketing officer that they are members of the force. I think most
would have it no other way.
--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ." Gandhi
Atheist Chaplain
> Atheist Chaplain wrote:
>> "Dyna Soar" <dynasoar..REMOVE..THIS..@ozdebate.com> wrote in message
>> news:7n8j20F...@mid.individual.net...
>>> Shane wrote:
>
>>>> You see my greatest issue with you and your stories goes along the
>>>> line of..... when I'm not at work (was at work) I was a driver the
>>>> same as you. I didn't get hauled over the side of the road and
>>>> bashed, I didn't get stopped and abused and I never got loaded up
>>>> for anything. You on the other hand experienced all three things in
>>>> one day. That should tell you something? :)
>
>>> It tells me that pigs look after their own...
>
>> ranked now) who have received speeding tickets in the past even when
>> it is obvious to the ticketing officer that they are members of the
>> force. I think most would have it no other way.
>
>
> --
> Dyna
>
> All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged.
>
I can't speak for Shane, I don't know him and after all an on line persona
is nothing to go on, you wouldn't know it by my postings here but I am a
gentle caring and thoughtful man with the soul of a poet............
;-)