GPS vs. Compass
david
Just curious - is it just me, or are there others out there who still don't
(nor ever wish to) own a GPS?
To me, part of the attraction of escaping civilisation when venturing into a
national park is also leaving technology behind.
I'm not knocking these systems; however the notion of self-reliance and
"making do" with a good old-fashioned map and compass is particularly
appealing.
Any comments?
David
Alan Hogg
Isn't a compass 'new' technology? You could rely upon the stars and leave
your map and compass behind if you really wanted to get back to basics.
And what about your tent and clothing with their 'new technology' fabrics?
Seriously, where do you draw the line? Isn't the GPS just another useful
(imo) tool? If they help prevent people becoming lost, aren't they useful
for that reason alone?
I have used a GPS (and map and compass) for the past 2 years or so. They
allow a greater sense of freedom for many people who want to take to the
backcountry where there are no tracks. And yes of course there are many
people who will go backcountry happily and safely without GPS - but there
are still many that get lost and even more who never venture off the
straight and narrow because of the fear of becoming lost.
They can be just another expensive toy, or a powerful tool. Just my thoughts.
Alan Hogg
David Springthorpe
wrote:
>Hi everyone!
>
>Just curious - is it just me, or are there others out there who still don't
>(nor ever wish to) own a GPS?
You risk starting another war.....
I still use just a map / compass because finances dictate it, but
sometimes when leader I have called on the use of other party members
GPS's to validate/check my own navigation, and would certainly
purchase one when circumstances allow (together with new sleeping bag,
pack, tent, camera, computer etc. etc. etc.).....
Donations may be promised to the return e-mail address.....
D.S.
John McLaine
David,
For those of us who have been around aus.bushwalking for a while, the
subject line looks suspiciously like a troll, but I will assume you are
being straight. Three points;
1 There is no "vs" between GPS and compass.
2 GPS is just another tool.
3 If you don't want one, don't get one.
Cheers,
John
<coll...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:71SE7.3803$w61.1...@ozemail.com.au...
Luke Maslen
"david" <coll...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>Just curious - is it just me, or are there others out there who still don't
>(nor ever wish to) own a GPS?
Hi David,
Someone in VicWalk Search & Rescue once stated, "low-tech keeps going
when high-tech breaks down." He was referring to the gee-whiz police
radios which we were using at the time but also was speaking more
generally about other gear, especially electronic gear. There is no
doubt that GPS units can give you a more accurate bearing but you will
still want to be proficient with a map and compass if the GPS dies.
Having said that, I have had a compass die on me when air got in to the
unit but only made itself noticable when on top of a mountain range in
the snow. I had to rely upon a combination of feature navigation and my
trusty old watch to get an occasional bearing using the cloud-covered
sun. The feature navigation was barely adequate in the cloud-obscured
terrain and the occasional bearing using the watch and the sun was very
reassuring.
Regards,
Luke Maslen.
Ausirion
GPS.
To try and use a compass in some of the country I frequent is extremely
difficult/next to impossible.
I also could not afford the time it takes to use a compass in many places to
get the accurate fixes I require.
When walking towards a particular location in country that has no tracks and
is dense, you can stick your compass well and truly where the sun don't
shine.
"John McLaine" <jmcl...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3be4...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Tom Brennan
> "making do" with a good old-fashioned map and compass is particularly
> appealing.
Today's map is far from "old-fashioned"! You'll find that the average map
these days has had far more technology go into it than your GPS. Does that
mean you'll only use maps that have been compiled from ground surveys and
pacing?
Most of us take a certain level of technology with us every time we go
walking. It's all just a question of where you draw the line. If you want
to just use compass/map that is up to you. However, when you remember that
neither compasses nor maps are 100% reliable it doesn't hurt to have another
independent navigation system handy.
cheers
tom
benwill dot n.e.t dot au
wrote:
>These 'purists' think they are something of a cut above those of us that use
>GPS.
>
>To try and use a compass in some of the country I frequent is extremely
>difficult/next to impossible.
>
>I also could not afford the time it takes to use a compass in many places to
>get the accurate fixes I require.
>
>When walking towards a particular location in country that has no tracks and
>is dense, you can stick your compass well and truly where the sun don't
>shine.
>
>--
>boll...@hotmail.com
Er, If it is that dense you will probably find your GPS struggling
without an external antenna.
We actually take a GPS (ETrex) with us when we go walking. Mainly
because it is interesting to come home, register the map and see if
where we think we went is where we actually did go. It is also nice to
use to confirm locations etc if we are ever unsure.
I feel that the answer to this question isn't so much in what to use,
it's more about redundancy of your choice of navigation aid. In our
usual party of four, we normally have 1 GPS and 4 compasses and 2
people who know the basics of sun / star navigation. This leaves us
pretty safe to use whatever method we want to navigate, knowing that
if it fails we have some other means of determining where we are and
where we are going.
GPS's are subject to batteries, hard impacts, not working in dense
forest etc.
Compasses are subject to magnetic variance and impact etc.
Astral Navigation is subject to cloudy skies etc.
All are subject to user error :)
Pick one and make sure that if it fails you can still find your way
and you will be a happy camper.
Cheers
Ben
Allan Grogan
I've been on a walk in Kakadu where I've waited for two members of my party
to walk out to get assistance when I was struck down with severe abdominal
pain - a very unpleasant 24 hours while waiting for the chopper to arrive.
The next year in the Kimberley one of our party received a potentially
serious eye injury and while I was fairly confident of of my 1st aid
treatment I was able to ring my wife (a doctor) to make sure I was doing the
right thing - which was a huge relief for me, the patient and the trip
leader.
On balance I think I'd rather have the phone than not, especially in remote
areas.
On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of navigation using a GPS - but that's
my preference. I've walked with people who do use one, and I go caving with
a guy who fixes the position of cave entrances using one and I'll still have
a beer with them.
Allan Grogan
20 Fletcher St
PO Box 841
Exmouth, 6707
08 9949 2653 (phone/fax)
0428 492 653 (mobile)
Anthony Dunk
with it as a new toy, and then leave it in your pack and navigate with map
and compass. If you get in a jam, pop the GPS out for some confirmation.
Places I've found GPS's particularly useful are walking through country with
very few distinguishable landmarks and not a great deal of vertical relief.
Also, walking along the bed of a creek or river, a lot of the bends look the
same on the map. You can quickly verify which bend you're on with a GPS. Its
not essential if you know your map/compass navigation (which you always
should), but it makes life a little easier and more enjoyable out in the
bush.
I wouldn't hold the GPS in my hand during normal walking as I find the
(relatively) low-tech piece of magnetised metal (i.e. compass) nicer to use
for general, low-precision navigation.
Cheers,
Anthony.
Tom Brennan <to...@mindless.com> wrote in message
news:9s2ou0$3n1$1...@bugstomper.ihug.com.au...
John Bennetts
In other words - take and use a GPS if you wish, but don't rely on it.
Map reading with a compas is an easy skill to learn and a pleasure. GPS is, for me, only a reserve device which is not worth the weight 80% of the time. Better to take some extra chocolate or nuts (you can't eat a GPS).
The best tutorial I know for beginning map-and-compass users is the training booklet used by the NSW Rural Fire Service - about 16 pages and 2 hours should do it. No teacher needed. There are about 137 local government areas in NSW with RFS units, as well as the Sydney centre at Rose Hill. They are pretty obliging, in the main.
John
David Noble
>
> In article <71SE7.3803$w61.1...@ozemail.com.au>,
> "david" <coll...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> >Just curious - is it just me, or are there others out there who still don't
> >(nor ever wish to) own a GPS?
>
> Hi David,
>
> Someone in VicWalk Search & Rescue once stated, "low-tech keeps going
> when high-tech breaks down." He was referring to the gee-whiz police
> radios which we were using at the time but also was speaking more
> generally about other gear, especially electronic gear.
Yes - It sure would be fun to go back to the old days of NSW S&R before
radios were used when each bushwalker search party was given a stick of
gelignite - to set off if they found he lost party - so that the other
parties would hear and know to return to base.
Dave Noble
--
--------------------------
David Noble
dno...@ozemail.com.au
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~dnoble/
Mitchell Isaacs
news:3be5...@turakina.six.asn.au...
> Best solution is to buy a GPS if you have enough spare cash, have some fun
> with it as a new toy, and then leave it in your pack and navigate with map
> and compass. If you get in a jam, pop the GPS out for some confirmation.
Yes - although my preference would be to leave it at home altogether. I have
a GPS - when I first got it, it was great fun to take out on walks, but I
soon grew tired of it, and now would only use a GPS while mapping, or at
sea, or in wide, open, flat, featureless country. I usually hate when people
pull out a GPS on a walk that I'm on. If people want to use a GPS on their
trips, it doesn't worry me - but I feel that it is their loss. I think that
using a GPS for taking an accurate fix for the location of a cave or canyon
is a very good use - and sometime in the distant future when my youthful
arrogance wears off I may consider doing this. But even then I wouldn't use
it for navigation.
For the record, I also don't use a compass that often, except in poor
visibility or intricate navigation. But then that's most likely because I'm
lazy. I also get out the map as little as possible (again the laziness
thing - I actually really quite like maps). I've never gotten lost* while
navigating, but I have become geographically embarassed* - and have always
gained more from the experience than if I'd known exactly where I was. I
have stumbled across some great places because I wasn't where I thought I
was.
I prefer looking at what's around me rather than something in my hand (be it
a GPS, compass or a map).
* Lost means you can't find your way back easily. Geographically embarassed
means you don't know where you are (my definitions).
Cheers,
Mitchell
Ausirion
charge my AA NiMH batteries and power my GPS. I have been down to three
satellites once or twice, but never entirely lost the signal. It is rather
difficult to track your routes and mark waypoints for importing to a map on a
compass.
Sure I carry a quality Suunto compass and often use it to take distance
bearings.
<benwill @ b.i.g.p.o.n.d dot n.e.t dot au (Benjamin Williams)> wrote in
message news:3be4f23f...@news-server.qld.bigpond.net.au...
PeteM
where I am so why bother.
Then someone said to me that he owned a GPS, not because he didn't know
where he was but because he was INTERESTED in where he was. On that basis I
bought one for myself.
After a couple of years it has become an essential item in my kit. I use it
now less than I did at first. I only usually switch it on at rest stops,
just to confirm where I am.
By the way a GPS does not replace a compass, they are complimentary. A GPS
is very good at telling you where you are RIGHT NOW. A compass is a better
tool to have in your hand while walking to ensure that you are going in the
right direction.
I am a local SAR volunteer and I have to say that while GPS hasn't changed
the way we operate, it has enhanced the quality of information comming from
field parties. At an exercise the other weekend only 1 out of 13 parties was
equiped with a GPS. That one party was the only one that we had difficulty
with in establishing where they were and what territory they had covered.
The leader of that party didn't think he needed a GPS because he knew the
area well. I have no doubt that he was never lost at any stage, it was just
that he could not accurately determine his exact location as often as we
required.
"david" <coll...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:71SE7.3803$w61.1...@ozemail.com.au...
PeteM
I meant to say only 1 out of 13 parties was
NOT equiped with a GPS
"PeteM" <pm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9s48gu$fia$1...@news.wave.co.nz...
John Wayman
happier if 4 copies of the relevant maps were included in your navigation
essentials.
Cheers
John Wayman
<benwill @ b.i.g.p.o.n.d dot n.e.t dot au (Benjamin Williams)> wrote in
message news:3be4f23f...@news-server.qld.bigpond.net.au...
John Wayman
navigation points.
These points can still be downloaded and printed onto a map to show the
route followed. These maps are then filed together with any trip notes for
future reference.
Cheers
John Wayman
"PeteM" <pm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9s48gu$fia$1...@news.wave.co.nz...
benwill dot n.e.t dot au
wrote:
>4 compasses and a GPS can be pretty useless without a good map. I would be
>happier if 4 copies of the relevant maps were included in your navigation
>essentials.
>
>Cheers
>John Wayman
>
Sorry, I counted the compass and map as being part of the same item.
All the compass carriers have maps as well :)
Cheers
Ben
John McLaine
> These 'purists' think they are something of a cut above those of us that
use
> GPS
Are you referring to me?
If so re-read.
If not, as you were.
John McLaine
Happy owner and sometimes user of a Garmin Etrex.
"Ausirion" <no_...@here.com> wrote in message
news:B%4F7.43945$g8.5...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
David Martin
opinion.....
What you use doesn't matter.
What does matter is that you have a good enough idea of where you are &
where you're going to get there, and back, and to do so even if your primary
means of navigation becomes unusable. You need to be able to cope with a
series of mishaps & failures.
I suspect that the SAR people would spend a lot less time & money searching
if every group carried GPS, compass & satellite phone; was proficient in
their use; & worked on the assumption that some of these items would fail
when needed.
--
David Martin
Web Developer - FrontPage, ASP, Access
Info Blue Mountains Railway Pages
http://info.mountains.net.au/rail
Currently Seeking Work - Sydney, Australia
http://info.mountains.net.au/david
david
not knocking GPS - I was offering my personal preference and simply asking
if any others felt the same way.
PS I am well aware of the technology built into modern-day maps and gear;
my reference to technology was only intended cover any
digital/battery-operated equipment.
Cheers
David
"John McLaine" <jmcl...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3be62d21$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Roger Caffin
> Just curious - is it just me, or are there others out there who still don't
> (nor ever wish to) own a GPS?
Don't know about the "never" bit. But "can't be bothered" certainly.
> I'm not knocking these systems; however the notion of self-reliance and
> "making do" with a good old-fashioned map and compass is particularly
> appealing.
Yes indeed. "Making do" is wrong. A map and compass is an absolutely
first class combination. A GPS has all sorts of things which can go
wrong.
Much of the GPS-fashion is really substituting technology for skill,
for those who can't be bothered to learn. Well, I cast scorn on that
attitude. I have developed the skill to be able to use a map and
compass (getting it right *most* of the time) and am not ashamed of
it.
</endsoapbox>
Cheers
Roger Caffin
Roger Caffin
> These 'purists' think they are something of a cut above those of us that use
> GPS.
Maybe compass users are just a little more skilled maybe?
> To try and use a compass in some of the country I frequent is extremely
> difficult/next to impossible.
In Central Australia in dune country I might agree. A useful tool
there.
> I also could not afford the time it takes to use a compass in many places to
> get the accurate fixes I require.
Just what are you doing? Most of the time I know exactly where I am
because I keep track of it. I usually manage to do this while still
walking. You can too, if you try.
> When walking towards a particular location in country that has no tracks and
> is dense, you can stick your compass well and truly where the sun don't
> shine.
Hum diddy tum. Jagungal Wilderness in snow in fog? Deep in Wollemi NP
on the plateau country? SW Tassie, in the jungle? etc.
The fact is walkers and mountaineers have wandered the world without a
GPS unit quite happily for hundreds of years. We do not find it
difficult.
Cheers
Roger Caffin
Roger Caffin
> * Lost means you can't find your way back easily. Geographically embarassed
> means you don't know where you are (my definitions).
Alternate definitions:
"Lost" means you have given up. It's a state of mind.
"Geographically embarrassed" means you have an unfortunately large
circle of confusion for your current position.
Or: you don't know exactly where you are, but you could probably name
the map you should be on. :-)
Interesting question: can you call yourself "lost" if you have several
days of food and a good tent still in your pack?
Cheers
Roger Caffin
Ausirion
Sextant's, one being a beautiful craftsman built 1903 or an all plastic one
made in 1992.
If you can find anyone on this NG with more experience in mapping, navigation
or GIS I would be pleased to communicate with them.
"Roger Caffin" <r.ca...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3BE66C2...@tpg.com.au...
Roger Caffin
>
> Roger I could of course take my Sextant if I so choose. I have two
> Sextant's, one being a beautiful craftsman built 1903 or an all plastic one
> made in 1992.
brand is it, what did it cost, and what does it weigh? Hum: you would
need a watch too, and the tables. And probably a calculator. And fine
weather, not fog. But still....
> If you can find anyone on this NG with more experience in mapping, navigation
> or GIS I would be pleased to communicate with them.
I will leave it to others to volunteer.
Mapping and GIS are a little beyond the topic of navigating to a
destination and back home. For that I would be taking some of my other
gear too.
Cheers
Roger Caffin
Kathy and Steve Kilpatrick
us map and compass. On one day we had 22+kms to walk between water spots (if
indeed there was water at the other end!) The map and compass was used, and
at each change of direction the GPS was used to confirm our destination and
confirm also that the bearing of the next turning point was consistent with
the map and compass prediction. It was interesting to note that over 22 kms,
of the dozen or so times the route was checked on GPS we were within
50/100mts of where we thought we were going to be on the map. All of us were
very exhilarated that the predicted course was followed so closely with
compass and map, but the fact that we knew we were on track to the next
water point in 35 degree heat was of major comfort. ( and yes thank god
there was water at the end of a long, hot walk )
Kathy.news:3BE6661F...@tpg.com.au...
Mitchell Isaacs
> Roger I could of course take my Sextant if I so choose. I have two
> Sextant's, one being a beautiful craftsman built 1903 or an all plastic
one
> made in 1992.
>
> If you can find anyone on this NG with more experience in mapping,
navigation
> or GIS I would be pleased to communicate with them.
modern times to map without a GPS.
It is just as good, easy and quick, in most locations to navigate with a
compass. Many of the other locations where it is not as quick, it is still
perfectly OK navigating with a compass. The only places I would be worried
navigating with a compass are places like open desert etc..
Navigate with a GPS if you like - but in most terrain, for a skilled
operator (which is the level I think most people should strive to attain -
GPS hampers this), map & compass will suit just as well.
Actually, in some areas, in dense, broad ridges - navigation with a GPS can
be slower (IMHO) - an experienced walker can often pick the ridgeline
without a GPS or compass, and as you spend more time looking at what's in
front of you than something in your hand, so you walk quicker. When you get
to a very fine ridge junction, however, the GPS would be quicker (although
takes the fun out of it I reckon).
I'm not knocking GPS. Use it if you wish - I choose not to, others choose to
use it - their choice is as valid as mine.
I am, however, a little bemused by someone who states, "These 'purists'
think they are something of a cut above those of us that use GPS.", having a
go at people who in his/her opinion think themselves better than others,
then in a later post states, "If you can find anyone on this NG with more
experience in mapping, navigation or GIS I would be pleased to communicate
with them."
Cheers,
Mitchell
Mitchell Isaacs
> Interesting question: can you call yourself "lost" if you have several
> days of food and a good tent still in your pack?
I guess depends on your state of mind (as you were saying), and if you could
get out. I reckon it could be quite nice (depending on location/weather
etc), as long as you're not the panicky type, and just accept that you don't
have a clue where you are, and just do a bit of exploring. That's what
people did before they had maps, after all.
Cheers,
Mitchell
David Noble
>
> Yes indeed. "Making do" is wrong. A map and compass is an absolutely
> first class combination. A GPS has all sorts of things which can go
> wrong.
I think there is as much chance of a map and compass going wrong as a GPS.
GPS
- Satellites turned off - possible but unlikely
- Batteries running flat - most units give a good indication of battery
life - but in typical use (in my case) - one set of batteries lasts a
year or two - so they are unlikely to go flat on a trip (if they do -
then I would replace them with the batteries from my radio)
- electrical failure - possible I guess
Map and Compass
- map and/or compass is lost (this can happen - I have lost maps in the
bush, and found other people's on the odd occasion)
- compass is trodden on and broken - possible
- map deteriorates in rain (this has happened to me on a few occasions
when you are navigating in rain - eg "where are we now" someone asks",
reply - "hmmm... in this hole...")
- air bubbles form in compass - this often happens (but compass is still usable)
Also it is worth noting that most GPS users would use one in combination
with map and compass - so there a backup system available if needed. On
many trips - it is likely that several people take sets of maps - so
there exists backup as well in case a set of maps is lost.
>
> Much of the GPS-fashion is really substituting technology for skill,
> for those who can't be bothered to learn. Well, I cast scorn on that
> attitude. I have developed the skill to be able to use a map and
> compass (getting it right *most* of the time) and am not ashamed of
> it.
Another analogy would be those who still prefer classic abseiling rather
than using a harness and braking device. To classic abseil does require
more skill - and is well worth knowing in case you need to get down a
cliff with a rope when you have no harness or crabs etc. And lives have
been lost because people do not have this skill. But - this does not
make classic abseiling a "better" or "preferable" form of abseiling than
using more modern techniques.
I have been in plenty of situations eg in thick scrub on a vague ridge
in Tassie wondering if we were at the turn off point, very vague ridges
in the Northern Blue Mts where there is magnetic rock (eg Lost Flat),
the Kerries in a white out etc .... where a GPS derived position would
have been very useful.
And on a recent trip - I wasted a lot of time looking for a cave with a
very faint aboriginal handprint in it, and a friend told me about a two
day canyoning trip where they left their packs in a cave - and after
completing a canyon spent a lot of time looking for their packs (they
eventually found them on the next weekend!), and on those occasions when
you find a marajuana plantation in the bush and you want to let the
authorities know (yeh - right...) - a GPS may be of some use after all.
Dave
Ausirion
http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=025
"Roger Caffin" <r.ca...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3BE7B158...@tpg.com.au...
John Retchford
Ausirion wrote:
>
> Davis Mark 25 plastic sextant.
> http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=025
>
So you use a marine sextant in the bush? How frightfully clever! Do
you cross a morning position line with one around noon for a fix? When
do get any walking done?
John Retchford
dave gibbons
> Roger Caffin wrote:
>
> I have been in plenty of situations eg in thick scrub on a vague ridge
> in Tassie wondering if we were at the turn off point, very vague ridges
> in the Northern Blue Mts where there is magnetic rock (eg Lost Flat),
> the Kerries in a white out etc .... where a GPS derived position would
> have been very useful.
>
There is lots of magnetic rock in Tassie too, in some places enough to
cause significant compass deflection (>20 degrees).
Dave G.
PeteM
If your GPS is on and has lock on satellites, then it falls out of your
pocket while walking. Is the GPS lost?
"Roger Caffin" <r.ca...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3BE67173...@tpg.com.au...
PeteM
am and, if I have a waypoint at the destination, check on the compass
bearing. Then I switch off the GPS and use the compass while walking, maybe
checking my location from time to time with the GPS and therefore the
bearing.
GPS, map and compass are all part of the same system. If one fails then
probably any of the other two will probably do the trick to some extent.
But we mustn't forget eyes and brain which are probably the most
indespensible parts of the aforementioned system.
"Kathy and Steve Kilpatrick" <kil...@cyberwizards.com.au> wrote in message
news:10050452...@mail.cyberwizards.com.au...
David Dean
resisted the urge to make a twit of myself but there comes a time when a
weak bladder just has to let go.
Obviously he is doing a DR. Between the transverse table, dep, DLat and
DLong the final (DR) Lat and the (DR) Long, it should be easy. Though
bringing the sun down to the horizon may be a problem, rocking the sextant
could be difficult, getting the centre line of the mirror and oh s--- I have
left my DIP table at home.
On the +ve side unless the night before was a real biggie the ground will
not be rolling side to side.
The Mark Davis 25 is the deluxe unit, each one is registered, this is a
serious bit of kit. I keep mine in its protective case securely stowed in my
boat. To take it into the bush would be trashing $500.00 worth of sensitive
equipment.
"John Retchford" <John.Re...@dsto.defence.gov.au> wrote in message
news:3BE8619E...@dsto.defence.gov.au...
dave gibbons
Noble actually said (wasn't careful enough with the delete key!). My
apologies to Roger and David. Doesn't change the bit about the rocks
'tho.
Dave G.
dgib...@postoffice.utas.edu.au (dave gibbons) wrote in message news:<25caa629.01110...@posting.google.com>...
Jamieson
That's exactly how it works.
Map & compass the primary navigational tools, the GPS there to give the
confirmation.
Pretty simple really... but some people would make it all a bit more
technical.
Roy
"PeteM" <pm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9sa7sp$v9l$1...@news.wave.co.nz...
Mitchell Isaacs
news:LL7G7.1945$E81....@ozemail.com.au...
> You've hit the spot.
> That's exactly how it works.
> Map & compass the primary navigational tools, the GPS there to give the
> confirmation.
> Pretty simple really... but some people would make it all a bit more
> technical.
non-GPS-users. If I've navigated myself to somewhere other than where I
think I have, I'd rather not know...or at least have to figure it out
myself. I'll know soon enough of my mistake.
(and this is not trying to say that my way is any better than any other way)
Cheers,
Mitchell
John Atkinson
>
> I have my GPS external aerial and solar panels mounted on my hat.
And you claim to walk in scrub!
J.
David Springthorpe
He probably HAS to walk in scrub to avoid people laughing at him.....
D.S.
David Springthorpe
<misaacs@spam_me_not.student.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
>I guess depends on your state of mind (as you were saying), and if you could
>get out.
We have a character in our club who prides himself on the age of his
equipment (no rude comments please), mostly inherited from his father
(the club's founder), and particularly his pre-WW2 maps.....
D.S.
David Springthorpe
>Here's another interesting question I saw posed the other day:
>
>If your GPS is on and has lock on satellites, then it falls out of your
>pocket while walking. Is the GPS lost?
Only if the tree later falling in the forest that makes no noise
because no one is there to hear it, covers it.....
D.S.
Gaza's Mail
compass? I consider my greatest navigational tool a mental picture of the
"lay" of the land built up by a study of the map before I start the walk. I
would say that in rainforest country and a little further west in isolated
peak areas is that 99.9% of my walks follow a spur or ridge up to a high
point or cliffline, some sort of traverse along a saddle area or out to a
cliffline then back down another spur. It always seems fairly obvious to me
that if I end up down a gully that I have to get back up to high ground.
Don't get me wrong I ALWAYS take a map and compass and the few times that I
get them out is to generally orientate the map to identify surrounding
landmarks.
I would love to own a GPS but with $25 compared to $350 it is a bit
extravagant with the current state of my wallet.
PeteM
in every club.
"David Springthorpe" <david.spr...@idx.com.au> wrote in message
news:3bea6250...@news.idx.com.au...
David Springthorpe
>You have someone like that in your club? So do we. I think there must be one
>in every club.
One only ? We have the "CMW First XI" of characters - some wags even
suggest I'm a member or even president.....
D.S.
PeteM
modern packs are uncomfortable even though I think everyone else would think
exactly the opposite.
I have suggested to him that his back must be so deformed from carrying that
darn thing all the time that now it is the only thing that will still fit
it.
"David Springthorpe" <david.spr...@idx.com.au> wrote in message
news:3beb355...@news.idx.com.au...
John Atkinson
> I'm inclined to think that the resistance shown towards GPS (I love em) is
> similar to that which confronted pocket calculattors when they first
> appeared. People were decrying the possibility that we might forget our
> mathematical skills. Some of us have, and I'm glad I haven't but I reach
> for the calculator before a pencil.
>
> Let's not forget, too, that all technologies evolve over time. GPS units
> already are encompassing (Pun!) a compass.
>
> I think it's a: innovator, early adopter, early majority, late majority...
> you know what I mean. There will always be Luddites who opt for the
pencil
> and are proud of it.
Well., I started using calculators (the crank kind) in the late fifties,
bought one of the first pocket ones about 1970, owned about three over the
next decade or so, but when the third one crapped out in the mid eighties I
never bothered to replace it -- I'm perfectly happy to use the old pencil
for small and medium calculations, and go to the computer for the biggies.
The last time someone offered me their calculator I couldn't even remember
which order to push the keys.
So where do I fit in your classification?
No I've never got round to getting a GPS. And lately I seem to be
forgetting to pack my compass more and more often too.
John.
Andrew Mitchell
> Map reading with a compas is an easy skill to learn and a pleasure.
[snip]
Now that's a good point. If you set aside the issues of what is
'better' in terms of accuracy/reliability/price etc, navigating with a
map and compass can be one of the most enjoyable aspects of the walk.
A lot of people don't ever seem to want to navigate and are happy
trailing along behind a leader, enjoying the bush or the conversation
or whatever, but there's a lot of satisfaction to be gained by
navigating.
Part of the enjoyment, particularly if you are walking in a new area,
can be to start to understand how the geography 'works'. With repeated
trips to different parts of the area you start to build up a mental
map of the way everything fits in together. By that I mean have an
appreciation for the directions of flow of the rivers and tributaries,
how the ridges run and where clifflines are likely etc. With a GPS I
find I just go 'click', check a position, think 'oh we're here' and
don't think to much more about it. Or if there's a navigation plan
programmed in, it's just trudging from waypoint to waypoint. If you
are navigating over new country by map and compass, you (well at least
me, with an ordinary sense of direction), needto constantly keep
checking your position and comparing features on the map with a mental
picture you've built up. The GPS of course excellent at verifying
where you think you are if you REALLY need to know. However, a bit of
uncertainty can be be stimulating, and heading down the wrong spur can
be worthwhile sometimes. So what if you're a few hours late into camp
(OK a lot of people HATE this). It's also interesting to take a few
GPS readings over the course of the day but not to look at them until
night so you can see where you actually were.
David Springthorpe
Mitchell) wrote:
>Now that's a good point. If you set aside the issues of what is
>'better' in terms of accuracy/reliability/price etc, navigating with a
>map and compass can be one of the most enjoyable aspects of the walk.
> <snip>
Brilliantly put.....
D.S.
John Wayman
errors, wrong location of features, etc.
Take for example the popular VicMap 1:50,000 Leisure Map of Wilson's Prom.
Each edition of it shows a discrepancy with the grid on the 1:25,000 VicMap.
Through use of a GPS we've determined that the 1:25,000 version is correct.
But most walkers, including myself, use the 1:50,000 version, and the error
is annoying.
People without a GPS live on in ignorance unless trying to transfer gir
references from one map to the other,
Cheers
John Wayman
"David Martin" <d_ma...@mountains.net.au> wrote in message
news:8yqF7.4680$w61.2...@ozemail.com.au...
> Having read thru all the replies thus far; in my humble & inexperienced
> opinion.....
>
> What you use doesn't matter.
> What does matter is that you have a good enough idea of where you are &
> where you're going to get there, and back, and to do so even if your
primary
> means of navigation becomes unusable. You need to be able to cope with a
> series of mishaps & failures.
>
> I suspect that the SAR people would spend a lot less time & money
searching
> if every group carried GPS, compass & satellite phone; was proficient in
> their use; & worked on the assumption that some of these items would fail
> when needed.
>
>
> --
> David Martin
> Web Developer - FrontPage, ASP, Access
> Info Blue Mountains Railway Pages
> http://info.mountains.net.au/rail
>
> Currently Seeking Work - Sydney, Australia
> http://info.mountains.net.au/david
>
>
>
>
>