glueless patches
Andrew Morris
they have some pressure put to them?
Had an issue with a repaired pinch flat, where the patch has lifted from the
puncture itself...
had just repaired it again, so will see how this goes... just curious if
anyone else has had this, or maybe I put the first one on badly...
Don DeMair
"Andrew Morris" <use.the....@to.reply> wrote in message
news:3fe588ed$0$18692$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Maybe they've gotten better, but I've had no luck with glueless patches on
road bikes. Every one that I ever used eventually pulled loose and leaked.
Some took a few days to fail, others a few weeks. I don't use them anymore,
but I do keep some in my seat pack in case of emergencies as a backup to a
backup to a backup. Spare tube for first flat, then patch kit for the next
few, glueless patches after that.
The last time this question came up, some mtb'ers said they work just fine,
possibly because of the lower tire pressures.
Riding on with glue only,
Don
Just zis Guy, you know?
<use.the....@to.reply> wrote:
>has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking themselves when
>they have some pressure put to them?
Yes. They are about as much use as a chocolate teapot. I carry spare
tubes and Rema Tip-Top patches, which are quick enough not to be an
issue.
On the other hand the lowest pressure at which I run tyres is 80psi.
40psi MTB tyres might well be OK with glueless patches as a
get-you-home.
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
Sheldon Brown
> has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking themselves when
> they have some pressure put to them?
Yes, thousands of pepole have had this problem. That's why glueless
patches are a loser product.
> Had an issue with a repaired pinch flat, where the patch has lifted from the
> puncture itself...
Yes, this is to be expected with glueless patches.
> had just repaired it again, so will see how this goes... just curious if
> anyone else has had this, or maybe I put the first one on badly...
Good luck. My advice is to buy a proper patch kit for three bucks.
Sheldon "Not As If Real Patches Were Hard" Brown
+-----------------------------------------+
| There is a remedy for everything; |
| it is called death. |
| --Portuguese Proverb |
+-----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
Kevin
I don't know that much about them but I thought they were supposed to
only be temporary, a patch to get you home. Then you put on a
permanant, glue on.
K
(Pete Cresswell)
>has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking themselves when
>they have some pressure put to them?
Occasionally, but the biggest problem with them IMHO is that the tub is toast
once one peels off. The goop it leaves behind can't be removed enough to put
on a "real" patch and subsequent glueless patches don't seem to hold on it.
Trash the tube and switch to glueable patches.
--
PeteCresswell
Ron Hardin
> Sheldon "Not As If Real Patches Were Hard" Brown
There is the frozen glue problem; and the too-old glue problem, this in areas
where you don't get many flats and so your glue expires by the time you need it.
And, with modern tubes, the damn-glue-doesn't-work-anyway problem.
This is all solved by carrying an extra tube. You need one as a hedge
against a blowout with or without a patch kit.
There's also the opposite school, which is mine at the moment, that flats
are rare enough on commutes that it just presents an opportunity to walk home
one day instead, and to hell with the toolkit entirely.
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
Just zis Guy, you know?
>I don't know that much about them but I thought they were supposed to
>only be temporary, a patch to get you home. Then you put on a
>permanant, glue on.
Why bother? Like the man says, it's not like ordinary patches are
hard.
Jens Kr. Kirkebø
wrote:
>There's also the opposite school, which is mine at the moment, that flats
>are rare enough on commutes that it just presents an opportunity to walk home
>one day instead, and to hell with the toolkit entirely.
Yep, that's me. Never had a single flat since I switched to MTBs 3
years ago. I commute 11 miles daily year round, soon to be 17-18
miles. I carry no patch kit, no tubes and no pump. I don't even know
where my patch kit is anymore. It probably wouldn't do me any good in
0F temperatures anyway.
onefred
The first time I used glueless, I had a horrific experience. After having
some very nice mechanics help me air my patched tube 100 psi, it only held
air for 10 minutes. Approx. eight o'clock that morning I gave up and waited
in front of a bike shop until they opened. I bought a new tube. My first
time was also my last. Back to using REMA 'glueful' patches and these still
work as advertised. Good stuff. Glueless patches elimate the need to carry
a little tube of rubber cement but how great of an inconvience is this
anyway?
Dave
Werehatrack
In my limited experience, they're almost as reliable as a spammer's
money-back guarantee. I tried three different brands, had no luck,
and *then* I asked the guy at the nearest lbs which ones he
recommended, if any. He said that he'd never found any that worked,
not even well enough to get him home on a short ride.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
Werehatrack
<outloo...@microsoft.com> may have said:
>On 21 Dec 2003 06:46:17 -0800, kd...@nebi.com (Kevin) wrote:
>
>>I don't know that much about them but I thought they were supposed to
>>only be temporary, a patch to get you home. Then you put on a
>>permanant, glue on.
>
>Why bother? Like the man says, it's not like ordinary patches are
>hard.
Putting a regular patch on the tube where a glueless one has left
traces of its adhesive may make the regular one fail to hold, though.
At least, that seems to be what happened to me on the one occasion
when a glueless patch managed to work just barely well enough to get
me home.
Pete Biggs
>> I don't know that much about them but I thought they were supposed to
>> only be temporary, a patch to get you home. Then you put on a
>> permanant, glue on.
>
> Why bother?
To get be your way as quickly as possible when you don't mind taking a
risk and have to spend as little time as possible - or when you've
lost/forgotten your glue or it's dried up or run out. An emergency, in
other words. When it's obvious where the puncture is located, there is no
faster repair. Whip off just that bit of tyre, slap on a glueless patch,
etc. That is faster than changing a tube or anything else.
> Like the man says, it's not like ordinary patches are
> hard.
They are slower to apply.
~PB
Pete Biggs
> has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking
> themselves when they have some pressure put to them?
Yes, but I've also had success on other occasions with Giyo gluless
patches at 130psi. They tend to be more reliable in dry conditions, but
still best saved for emergencies only, and then replaced promptly with a
proper patch. Carry some but only in addition to a normal puncture repair
kit (and spare tube).
~PB
Pete Biggs
>> Why bother?
>
> To get be your way as quickly as possible
To be on your way.........
~PB
Just zis Guy, you know?
<rau...@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote:
>Putting a regular patch on the tube where a glueless one has left
>traces of its adhesive may make the regular one fail to hold, though.
True enough - many of the problems of glueless patches may go away if
you prepare the tube properly first (i.e. clean and abrade it) - but
since that's 90% of the work of a proper patch, you might as well get
the glue out ;-)
Lou D'Amelio
They won't hold at road pressure (100 PSI) - they'll get you home, but
aren't a definitive fix. They will hold at MTB pressures (40 PSI). Not
worth it for road use, IMHO.
Lou D'Amelio
flatline
to get you home, but properly applied glue patch is likely stronger.
Addressing your own problem, you could try cleaning the tube off very
well before applying the glueless patch.
Don't pre-inflate the tube before fitting it on the rim. Maybe the
inside of the tire can hold the patch in place.
r.b.
"Andrew Morris" <use.the....@to.reply> wrote in message news:<3fe588ed$0$18692$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>...
Pete Biggs
> True enough - many of the problems of glueless patches may go away if
> you prepare the tube properly first (i.e. clean and abrade it) - but
> since that's 90% of the work of a proper patch, you might as well get
> the glue out ;-)
90% of the work of proper patching is waiting for the cement to dry before
sticking patch on. Then there's the backing celophane/paper to carefully
remove. Only takes seconds to sand tube and apply glueless patch.
~PB
Just zis Guy, you know?
<pbiggmellon{remove_fruit}s2...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>90% of the work of proper patching is waiting for the cement to dry before
>sticking patch on. Then there's the backing celophane/paper to carefully
>remove. Only takes seconds to sand tube and apply glueless patch.
I don't really count sitting waiting as work. But whatever.
Pete Hickey
Ron Hardin <rhha...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Sheldon Brown wrote:
>> Sheldon "Not As If Real Patches Were Hard" Brown
>
>There is the frozen glue problem;
Frozen glue? How cold? I've patched a tire at around -10F (coldest
I ever had a flat) and had no problem with frozen glue.
--
--
"It's a sad day for american capitalism when a man
can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park."
J. Moran
Mike Jacoubowsky
There are two distinct types of "glueless" patches. One, made popular by
Park, is a square patch of relatively stiff material, no feathered edge, and
a sticky side sort of like adhesive on a piece of tape. I find those are
*not* permanent.
The other, available under the name "Scabs" and also "WrenchForce", have a
much thinner, more flexible material and an adhesive similar to standard
patch glue, which is activated when peeled away from its backing. I've used
these as permanent patches, and they've been as reliable as a standard Rema
patch. The main advantage is that you don't have to deal with a tube of
glue that, once used, tends to dry up after a while. A standard patch
doesn't do you any good if you don't have any glue to use with it!
As they say, your mileage may vary, but I think the Park patches have given
a bad name to the concept. That's surprising, because in general, Park is a
very high quality company.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Phil, Squid-in-Training
> aren't a definitive fix. They will hold at MTB pressures (40 PSI). Not
> worth it for road use, IMHO.
Same story here exactly. Good think I ride MTB almost exclusively now ;)
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Ron Hardin
>
> In article <3FE5B7...@mindspring.com>,
> Ron Hardin <rhha...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >Sheldon Brown wrote:
> >> Sheldon "Not As If Real Patches Were Hard" Brown
> >
> >There is the frozen glue problem;
>
> Frozen glue? How cold? I've patched a tire at around -10F (coldest
> I ever had a flat) and had no problem with frozen glue.
I've had it freeze at about 20F, and had to put it in a pocket
for quite a while to get it to flow.
Carl Fogel
Dear Jens,
I'm always interested in flats--Friday was
number 24 in 339 rides for 2003, fewer than
usual, but still annoying.
I'm in Pueblo, Colorado, where goathead stickers
are a problem that some people solve with mountain
bike tires.
I'm guessing that you live in an area free of
mother nature's sharper seeds, but I'm still
curious what it's like wherever you are.
Did you switch to a mountain bike to avoid
flats? What kind of things were puncturing
your tires? Any rough guess as to how often
you had flats before switching--weekly,
monthly, a couple every year?
Carl Fogel
Sheldon Brown
>>has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking
>>themselves when they have some pressure put to them?
Pete Biggs responded:
> Yes, but I've also had success on other occasions with Giyo gluless
> patches at 130psi. They tend to be more reliable in dry conditions, but
> still best saved for emergencies only, and then replaced promptly with a
> proper patch.
Why patch tube twice, when you only need to do it once if you do it
right? That seems like a LOT of extra work for nothing.
> Carry some but only in addition to a normal puncture repair
> kit (and spare tube).
I'll agree there. I don't do on-the-road patching unless I get _two_
flats in the same ride.
For one flat, I'll just replace the tube.
When I get home, I'll patch the old one. I accumulate these and do them
in batches. Working at home, I use a jar of rubber cement rather than
the tubes of glue that come with patch kits. That way, I can leave the
glue tube in factory sealed condition, so it doesn't dry out on me and
leave me in the lurch if I ever need it on the road.
Patching properly, in a warm, dry, well-lighted workshop results in a
very reliable job. I buff the tubes with my bench grinder...
Sheldon "Glueless Patches Are Too Much Work" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| I don't believe in astrology. But then I'm an Aquarius, |
| and Aquarians don't believe in astrology. |
| --James R. F. Quirk |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Benjamin Lewis
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:54:10 -0000, "Pete Biggs"
> <pbiggmellon{remove_fruit}s2...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>> 90% of the work of proper patching is waiting for the cement to dry
>> before sticking patch on. Then there's the backing celophane/paper to
>> carefully remove. Only takes seconds to sand tube and apply glueless
>> patch.
>
> I don't really count sitting waiting as work. But whatever.
Also, with all the patches I've used the backing is easy to remove since
it's perforated down the centre, and no real care is required.
--
Benjamin Lewis
There is no sincerer love than the love of food.
-- George Bernard Shaw
Jens Kr. Kirkebø
wrote:
>I'm always interested in flats--Friday was
>number 24 in 339 rides for 2003, fewer than
>usual, but still annoying.
>
>I'm in Pueblo, Colorado, where goathead stickers
>are a problem that some people solve with mountain
>bike tires.
>
>I'm guessing that you live in an area free of
>mother nature's sharper seeds, but I'm still
>curious what it's like wherever you are.
No sharp seeds that I know of, most flats before came from glass and
small metallic objects like screws. I guess I had one or two per month
but I rode a lot less then.
>Did you switch to a mountain bike to avoid
>flats? What kind of things were puncturing
>your tires? Any rough guess as to how often
>you had flats before switching--weekly,
>monthly, a couple every year?
I switched because my old road bike was no fun riding in rain, snow,
ice, roads full of potholes etc. Since I wanted to start commuting by
bike I needed a bike that would handle these conditions well. Also I
wanted to try offroading and we have quite a lot of singletrack around
here.
I didn't find the road bike very comfortable either, especially with a
backpack (I need to carry clothes on my commute). I like the more
upright position a lot better.
BTW, I have had to replace two tubes, but that was because of blowouts
caused by defective tires that my LBS replaced for free.
Adam Rush
Drive to work tomorrow.
John Tserkezis
>>Like the man says, it's not like ordinary patches are
>>hard.
> They are slower to apply.
The same could be said for glueless patches, you still have to look for the
puncture.
If you're worried about speed, carry spare tubes and a gas charge pump. The
trade-off is weight and cost.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622 <http://counter.li.org>
Jens Kr. Kirkebø
>> Yep, that's me. Never had a single flat since I switched to MTBs 3
>> years ago. I commute 11 miles daily year round, soon to be 17-18
>> miles. I carry no patch kit, no tubes and no pump. I don't even know
>> where my patch kit is anymore. It probably wouldn't do me any good in
>> 0F temperatures anyway.
>
>Drive to work tomorrow.
That'll mean that my wife won't have a car available during the day
for errands, shopping etc. Then I'll have to do all that stuff when I
get home. Not an option at all :)
Cold weather, like 0F/-18C is no big deal. The worst temperature is
around 32F/0C because then we get lots of slush, wet snow, ice,
freezing rain and other stuff that makes riding hard. At 0F my only
problems are a freezing rear brake (going hydraulic on next bike)
which is no big deal as I still have the front working. The cold
itself is no problem as long as I have a sufficient supply of
cold-weather clothes.
I'd still ride my bike if it was -40F (which is extremely rare here in
the southeast of Norway, -15F is the coldest I can remember).
Werehatrack
<Capt...@sheldonbrown.com> may have said:
>Patching properly, in a warm, dry, well-lighted workshop results in a
>very reliable job. I buff the tubes with my bench grinder...
>
>Sheldon "Glueless Patches Are Too Much Work" Brown
Real Men Use Power Tools, eh?
Okay, I'll admit to using the belt sander once or twice, but usually I
use a strip of emery cloth, and resort to the more aggressive
abrasives only when the hole is adjacent to a ridge line on the tube.
(I find that the cheapie tubes from Mall-Wart have fewer ridges than
the expensive boutique ones; this makes no sense.) The little
perforated metal buffers (with the razor-sharp finger-dicing edges)
are just about worthless for their alleged purpose.
Werehatrack
<mik...@ix.netcom.com> may have said:
>As they say, your mileage may vary, but I think the Park patches have given
>a bad name to the concept. That's surprising, because in general, Park is a
>very high quality company.
Same results here vis-a-vis the Parks. I haven't tried the Rema
patches. Two other brands also emulated vacuum cleaners. I had a
flat about a block from a local sporting goods chain store one time,
and had neglected to bring any spares, so I went in and bought what
they had for glueless patches (Bell; truly awful!) and ended up
walking another three blocks to an auto parts store to get a tire
patch kit instead.
Philip
"Andrew Morris" <use.the....@to.reply> wrote in message
news:3fe588ed$0$18692$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking themselves
when
> they have some pressure put to them?
>
gaza
> Cold weather, like 0F/-18C is no big deal. The worst temperature is
> around 32F/0C because then we get lots of slush, wet snow, ice,
> freezing rain and other stuff that makes riding hard. At 0F my only
> problems are a freezing rear brake (going hydraulic on next bike)
> which is no big deal as I still have the front working. The cold
> itself is no problem as long as I have a sufficient supply of
> cold-weather clothes.
>
> I'd still ride my bike if it was -40F (which is extremely rare here in
> the southeast of Norway, -15F is the coldest I can remember).
Greetings from the Gold Coast, Australia.
Forecast for today....
32C.
Ocean Temp..24C
Light NE breeze...1m swell
Merry Xmas
(Pete Cresswell)
>Cold weather, like 0F/-18C is no big deal.
What about patches of ice?
--
PeteCresswell
Steve Blankenship
news:8g5cuvgi82be28rja...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:48:42 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> <mik...@ix.netcom.com> may have said:
>
> >As they say, your mileage may vary, but I think the Park patches have
given
> >a bad name to the concept. That's surprising, because in general, Park
is a
> >very high quality company.
>
> Same results here vis-a-vis the Parks. I haven't tried the Rema
> patches. Two other brands also emulated vacuum cleaners. I had a
> flat about a block from a local sporting goods chain store one time,
> and had neglected to bring any spares, so I went in and bought what
> they had for glueless patches (Bell; truly awful!) and ended up
> walking another three blocks to an auto parts store to get a tire
> patch kit instead.
>
Agree on the Parks; however, a friend gave me some house-brand ones he got
from Nashbar that actually worked. I was skeptical from prior experience
with the 1st-gen Parks, but I'd also been caught out by old & hardened glue
before when faced with a second flat on a ride (always just throw in a spare
tube 1st). So I was interested in the concept. Lo and behold, these held
air well enough (@110-120psi) to be a true alternative to standard glue
patches - no more leakage over several days than an unpatched tube. I
remember having as many as three on a tube before chucking it when it got
yet another hole. Hey; even I have my limits... ;-)
FWIW, they were very thin and elastic like the ones Mike J. referred to;
probably the same thing without the branding. Tried some new Parks after I
used them all up and they're not much better than the 1st ones. Scabs it
is, then.
Ron Hardin
> Greetings from the Gold Coast, Australia.
> Forecast for today....
> 32C.
> Ocean Temp..24C
> Light NE breeze...1m swell
> Merry Xmas
Are you guys having next summer or last summer?
Jens Kr. Kirkebø
>RE/
>>Cold weather, like 0F/-18C is no big deal.
>
>What about patches of ice?
My Nokian Extreme tires with 296 studs each handle ice like ordinary
tires handle wet asphalt, subjectively. IOW no problem at all.
David L. Johnson
> has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking themselves
> when they have some pressure put to them?
Everyone does. They are junk. Carry a spare tube or two, and use real
patches.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | Become MicroSoft-free forever. Ask me how.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) |
Gary Smiley
would have to get around six flats on a ride before I had to use the glueless
patches. But I carry them anyway, becaues they are so ridiculously small. They
are in the same category as extra spokes, power links, tape, etc- they are
light and easy to carry but could potentially help me (or other riders) in a
big way.
Pete Biggs
>> Yes, but I've also had success on other occasions with Giyo gluless
>> patches at 130psi. They tend to be more reliable in dry conditions,
>> but still best saved for emergencies only, and then replaced
>> promptly with a proper patch.
>
> Why patch tube twice, when you only need to do it once if you do it
> right? That seems like a LOT of extra work for nothing.
I agree it's extra work in total but it's not for nothing. Glueless
patches are faster to apply (even faster than changing a tube when it's
obvious where the puncture is) so one could make the difference between
catching or missing a train, for example.
As I said, they're best saved for emergencies only. That's two types of
emergencies. 1: When you're in a great hurry. 2: When you have no
alternative means of repair left.
~PB
Alex Rodriguez
dde...@remove.this.worldnet.att.net says...
>Maybe they've gotten better, but I've had no luck with glueless patches on
>road bikes. Every one that I ever used eventually pulled loose and leaked.
>Some took a few days to fail, others a few weeks. I don't use them anymore,
>but I do keep some in my seat pack in case of emergencies as a backup to a
>backup to a backup. Spare tube for first flat, then patch kit for the next
>few, glueless patches after that.
>
>The last time this question came up, some mtb'ers said they work just fine,
>possibly because of the lower tire pressures.
>
>Riding on with glue only,
my experience has been a bit better. My glueless patches have lasted a
whole season, but they have eventually failed. I carry a spare tube and
then use glueless as my back up. I only use regular glue patches at home.
I always find the small tube of glue dries up shortly after I open it.
---------------
Alex
Claire Petersky
"Andrew Morris" <use.the....@to.reply> wrote in message
news:3fe588ed$0$18692$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
when
> they have some pressure put to them?
My sole experience with glueless patches:
I was riding with my old friend, "Luvs Hills" Lester, and I got a flat. The
patch kit I had in my bike bag was certifiably ancient, and the glue had
separated into component parts, and wouldn't have sealed anything.
In desperation, I rummaged around the bike bag. I found some glueless
patches I had gotten as a freebie at a century I had participated in a year
earlier. I had just thrown them in the bike bag, not thinking much about
them one way or the other. They saved the day.
Lester was pretty disdainful of them, and I don't remember him offering the
use of his patch kit, but the glueless patch held. I wouldn't buy them, and
I wouldn't go out of my way to carry them compared to the regular patches,
but I thought they were darn fine under the circumstances.
--
Warm Regards,
Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
Rob
> gaza wrote:
>> Greetings from the Gold Coast, Australia.
>> Forecast for today....
>> 32C.
>> Ocean Temp..24C
>> Light NE breeze...1m swell
>> Merry Xmas
>
> Are you guys having next summer or last summer?
Neither, it's this summer.
Rob
Pete Biggs
>>> Like the man says, it's not like ordinary patches are
>>> hard.
>
>> They are slower to apply.
>
> The same could be said for glueless patches
That doesn't make sense.
> you still have to look for the puncture.
A bad puncture can be found in 5 seconds from the hissing noise and lump
of glass or whatever sticking through the tyre. For slow punctures, I
agree it can be quicker to change the tube (although you should still
check for cause of puncture in tyre).
> If you're worried about speed, carry spare tubes and a gas charge
> pump. The trade-off is weight and cost.
Again, using a glueless patch is FASTER than changing a tube WHEN it is
obvious where the puncture is (because the whole tyre does not need to be
removed, let alone the wheel). To be fair, it's not so easy on rear tyres
with mudguards/fenders.
This is such simple logic that I'm surprised more people can't appreciate
that glueless patches do have a use. Ok, limited use, but it is some
worthwhile use.
~PB
David Reuteler
: Neither, it's this summer.
and a damn nice one, too. i cried getting off the plane in the USA. and
that was san francisco. i really got bummed when i got to minnesota. socal
has nothing on your locale.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
A Muzi
> <Capt...@sheldonbrown.com> may have said:
>>Patching properly, in a warm, dry, well-lighted workshop results in a
>>very reliable job. I buff the tubes with my bench grinder...
Werehatrack wrote:
> Okay, I'll admit to using the belt sander once or twice, but usually I
> use a strip of emery cloth, and resort to the more aggressive
> abrasives only when the hole is adjacent to a ridge line on the tube.
> (I find that the cheapie tubes from Mall-Wart have fewer ridges than
> the expensive boutique ones; this makes no sense.) The little
> perforated metal buffers (with the razor-sharp finger-dicing edges)
> are just about worthless for their alleged purpose.
We do not generally patch now, but when we did (and _lots_
of them every day) we used a normal "patch buffer" solvent
with a clean cloth. I still clean tubes that way for
patching the odd irreplaceable tube.
When I was young I remember the old guys would smear cement
over the area, wait a moment and scrape it away with a
pocket knife. That was also effective in removing any dirt
and extraneous material from the tube's surface.
I don't see a reason to use an abrasive in a shop when you
have a much more thorough and effective method of cleaning
available. The point is _not_ to texture or smooth the
tube; the point is to clean the surface detritus out of the
way so the glue and patch might adhere to the tube itself,
not the crud layer over it.
Of course an abrasive _can_ do a good job of cleaning. YMMV
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Andrew Swan
> RE/
>
>>has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking themselves when
>>they have some pressure put to them?
>
>
> once one peels off. The goop it leaves behind can't be removed enough to put
> on a "real" patch and subsequent glueless patches don't seem to hold on it.
>
> Trash the tube and switch to glueable patches.
I've chucked "goopy" tubes before for this very reason, but now I've
mended my ways (and my tubes). Now if/when a glueless patch lifts off
(which seems to be happening more and more now that the weather here is
warming up), I just peel the patch off, moisten a rag with Brasso*, and
rub the area until all the goop is gone. Then I stick on a proper patch
with proper contact cement.
* for countries that aren't lucky enough to have Brasso, it's a popular
metal polish that's 65% liquid hydrocarbon. Probably any solvent that
doesn't harm rubber would work as well.
HTH,
&roo
Pete Biggs
> We do not generally patch now, but when we did (and _lots_
> of them every day) we used a normal "patch buffer" solvent
> with a clean cloth. I still clean tubes that way for
> patching the odd irreplaceable tube.
>
> When I was young I remember the old guys would smear cement
> over the area, wait a moment and scrape it away with a
> pocket knife. That was also effective in removing any dirt
> and extraneous material from the tube's surface.
>
> I don't see a reason to use an abrasive in a shop when you
> have a much more thorough and effective method of cleaning
> available. The point is _not_ to texture or smooth the
> tube; the point is to clean the surface detritus out of the
> way so the glue and patch might adhere to the tube itself,
> not the crud layer over it.
Can solvent alone remove the mold release*?
* http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.1.html
~PB
Pete Biggs
> but the biggest problem with them IMHO is that the tub
> is toast once one peels off. The goop it leaves behind can't be
> removed enough to put on a "real" patch and subsequent glueless
> patches don't seem to hold on it.
Solvent and sanding removes the goop.
~PB
Peter Cole
news:3FE660D1...@comcast.net...
> I agree- I carry a tube, a patch kit, and some glueless patches - but - I
> would have to get around six flats on a ride before I had to use the
glueless
> patches. But I carry them anyway, becaues they are so ridiculously small.
They
> are in the same category as extra spokes, power links, tape, etc- they are
> light and easy to carry but could potentially help me (or other riders) in a
> big way.
I also agree. Carrying a glueless patch or 2 is like bringing along a couple
of postage stamps. Saved me from walking home once, when I found my glue was
dried up, and that was an *unopened* tube in a good (Rema) patch kit.
Joel Mayes
> Greetings from the Gold Coast, Australia.
> Forecast for today....
> 32C.
> Ocean Temp..24C
> Light NE breeze...1m swell
> Merry Xmas
Bastard :-)
I'm in Melbourne, Australia
Raining and headwinds in *both* direction today :(
--
| Joel Mayes | /~\ ASCII Ribbon campaign
| Accordionist | \_/ stop HTML mail and news
| Musician | / \
| Music Teacher |
Spider1977
spare tubes and don't bother doing the patch work until I get home. Good
quality tyres mean less punctures anyway. Most of the punctures I've had
have been tube pinches associated with poor rubber protection on the
wheel/spoke area and low inflation or failure around the valve base.
Even the expensive tubes are only about AUD10. So leave the messy jobs
until you get home - and yes I prefer to use glue patches.
--
Q.
info" for Nashbar's house brand it says:
"Please give the customer the option to purchase PT-GP2 as a
substitute at the same price. Please tell the customer that the Park
patches are glueless and are a better value."
LOL! Chya right. Don't know if they're just trying to move the glueless
patches or what, but perhaps someone from Nashbar should look at this
thread.
C.Q.C.
Werehatrack
<pbiggmellon{remove_fruit}s2...@onetel.net.uk> may have said:
>Can solvent alone remove the mold release*?
>
>* http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.1.html
In my experience, the right solvent can leave the tube perfectly
prepped. The wrong solvent can leave it perfectly ruined. I hesitate
to recommend some of the things I do myself, precisely because there
are too many ways in which certain techniques can be misapplied or
misremembered. ("Was that toluene or xylene? Or did I use acetone?
Oh, hell, just douse it with carb cleaner spray and....aaah, shit.")
BTW, I, too, have seen the trick of using some glue as a cleaner; it
*often* works, but I have seen it fail as well. The good part is that
in failing, it does no damage; as such, I consider it at least safe to
try if the urgency of performing the patch in one attempt is not
great.
Werehatrack
have said:
>I don't see a reason to use an abrasive in a shop when you
>have a much more thorough and effective method of cleaning
>available. The point is _not_ to texture or smooth the
>tube; the point is to clean the surface detritus out of the
>way so the glue and patch might adhere to the tube itself,
>not the crud layer over it.
I consider that there is one situation in which an abrasive is
superior, and that is when the hole is adjacent to a mold ridge on the
tube. In that instance, I use emery cloth (or whatever comes to hand)
to reduce the ridge so that the patch will lay flat across the hole.
Over the years, the majority of patch failures I've had were in
locations where a ridge prevented the patch from laying entirely flat.
Carl Fogel
> In article <bs58a1$9ptr1$1...@ID-137617.news.uni-berlin.de>, gaza wrote:
>
> > Greetings from the Gold Coast, Australia.
> > Forecast for today....
> > 32C.
> > Ocean Temp..24C
> > Light NE breeze...1m swell
> > Merry Xmas
>
> Bastard :-)
>
> I'm in Melbourne, Australia
> Raining and headwinds in *both* direction today :(
Dear Joel,
Rain . . . that's when water mysteriously
falls from the skies, isn't it? Four inches
last year, nearly eleven this year. But most
of it fell out at the airport where the weather
bureau records it, not where anyone actually
lives.
Carl Fogel
Pueblo, Colorado
John Henderson
> Cripes, the price of tubes is so cheap these days, I carry a
> couple of spare tubes and don't bother doing the patch work
> until I get home. Good quality tyres mean less punctures
> anyway. Most of the punctures I've had have been tube pinches
> associated with poor rubber protection on the wheel/spoke area
> and low inflation or failure around the valve base.
Most of my rides are from 2 to 5 hours. I don't carry a spare
tube because it won't fit into my pockets. I do carry a few Park
glueless patches, a pair of plastic tyre levers, and a mobile
phone.
I suppose I could fit a spare tube under the seat. But then I'd
have to carry tools to remove my back wheel (SRAM/Sachs Spectro-7
internal gear hub).
The 4-or-so glueless patches I've used have been a complete
long-term success. But those tyres were inflated to 65 PSI only.
I now run Conti Travel Contacts at 85 PSI, and I understand I
might have problems with glueless at that pressure.
It don't know if it's important, but I was told to press the
glueless patches onto the tube as hard as I could for at least a
minute. So that's what I've done, and perhaps that makes a
difference.
The mobile phone is to summon a lift for more serious problems if
I'm more than a couple of hours' walk from home.
> Even the expensive tubes are only about AUD10. So leave the
> messy jobs until you get home - and yes I prefer to use glue
> patches.
John
Adam Rush
> That'll mean that my wife won't have a car available during the day
> for errands, shopping etc. Then I'll have to do all that stuff when I
> get home. Not an option at all :)
>
> Cold weather, like 0F/-18C is no big deal. The worst temperature is
> around 32F/0C because then we get lots of slush, wet snow, ice,
> freezing rain and other stuff that makes riding hard. At 0F my only
> problems are a freezing rear brake (going hydraulic on next bike)
> which is no big deal as I still have the front working. The cold
> itself is no problem as long as I have a sufficient supply of
> cold-weather clothes.
> I'd still ride my bike if it was -40F (which is extremely rare here in
> the southeast of Norway, -15F is the coldest I can remember).
Yes, judging from the ".no" you've got on the end of your email addr,
I assume that you can handle the cold. The Gods can, too...
The longer a duration without flats you talk about on r.b.t, the
higher the chances of that nasty goathead deflowering your wheel's
butyl undergarments. REPENT! Sacrifice a DBS to Tyr, god of bicycle
mechanics, and tell your ladyfolk to call in sick.
Tim Jones
>
> > Greetings from the Gold Coast, Australia.
> > Forecast for today....
> > 32C.
> > Ocean Temp..24C
> > Light NE breeze...1m swell
> > Merry Xmas
>
> Bastard :-)
>
> I'm in Melbourne, Australia
> Raining and headwinds in *both* direction today :(
>
I'm in Melbourne too - and since when is the wind you are riding with *not*
against you!
;-)
Tim
Rick Onanian
>For one flat, I'll just replace the tube.
>
>When I get home, I'll patch the old one. I accumulate these and do them
>in batches. Working at home, I use a jar of rubber cement rather than
>the tubes of glue that come with patch kits. That way, I can leave the
>glue tube in factory sealed condition, so it doesn't dry out on me and
>leave me in the lurch if I ever need it on the road.
Tell me more: Is the jar of rubber cement the standard
office-supply-store variety intended for cementing papers to
eachother? I suspect that there's no difference, and it's not
necessary to have something that says it's specifically for tire
repairs, as long as it's rubber cement.
>Patching properly, in a warm, dry, well-lighted workshop results in a
>very reliable job. I buff the tubes with my bench grinder...
I don't think I have a light enough touch to buff tubes with a bench
grinder. What kind of wheel is on the grinder?
>Sheldon "Glueless Patches Are Too Much Work" Brown
--
Rick "I agree with Sheldon" Onanian
Rick Onanian
<rau...@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote:
>The little
>perforated metal buffers (with the razor-sharp finger-dicing edges)
>are just about worthless for their alleged purpose.
I think you're holding them upside-down.
--
Rick Onanian
Rick Onanian
<steveNOSPAM...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Agree on the Parks; however, a friend gave me some house-brand ones he got
>from Nashbar that actually worked. I was skeptical from prior experience
>tube 1st). So I was interested in the concept. Lo and behold, these held
>air well enough (@110-120psi) to be a true alternative to standard glue
>patches - no more leakage over several days than an unpatched tube. I
Really? I have the Nashbar glueless patches. I tried one and it
didn't work; I didn't bother after that (but then, that was the last
time I got a flat).
>remember having as many as three on a tube before chucking it when it got
>yet another hole. Hey; even I have my limits... ;-)
Why? What's wrong with lots of patches on the tube, especially when
you say:
>FWIW, they were very thin and elastic like the ones Mike J. referred to;
>probably the same thing without the branding. Tried some new Parks after I
That's a good description of the one I tried that failed. I guess
I'll give it another chance.
--
Rick Onanian
Rick Onanian
<use...@SPAMMERSandrewMUSTswanDIE.com> wrote:
>* for countries that aren't lucky enough to have Brasso, it's a popular
>metal polish that's 65% liquid hydrocarbon. Probably any solvent that
>doesn't harm rubber would work as well.
It's also purported to be the best way to repair scratched and
scuffed CDs and DVDs (only for scratches on the clear side, not on
the printed side). I've wholeheartedly failed to repair numerous
such CDs with Brasso, toothpaste, a CD-scratch-repair machine, and
numerous other methods.
>HTH,
>
>&roo
--
Rick Onanian
(Pete Cresswell)
>I just peel the patch off, moisten a rag with Brasso*, and
>rub the area until all the goop is gone.
I guess I've got retract part of my previous post...
--
PeteCresswell
(Pete Cresswell)
>Again, using a glueless patch is FASTER than changing a tube WHEN it is
>obvious where the puncture is (because the whole tyre does not need to be
>removed, let alone the wheel). To be fair, it's not so easy on rear tyres
>with mudguards/fenders.
>
>This is such simple logic that I'm surprised more people can't appreciate
>that glueless patches do have a use. Ok, limited use, but it is some
>worthwhile use.
But how much faster is it to put on the glueless patch than it is to smear a
little glue on the area first? ....or can a glueless be applied without
abrading the surface?
Also, a big factor for me is that the tube is essentially wasted once I put a
glueless patch on it because eventually the patch will work loose. Maybe
somebody else has figured how to get that goop off and replace it with a real
patch...but I haven't had any luck using alcohol or acetone.
--
PeteCresswell
Mike Latondresse
news:kq3fuvsgi483b5la5...@4ax.com:
You are right I don't think that you can get them off cleanly enough to
allow a regular patch to be applied but I carry 3 spare tubes and a
little box of glueless because they take up so little room....haven't
had to use them yet tho.
John Tserkezis
>>> They are slower to apply.
>> The same could be said for glueless patches
> That doesn't make sense.
It makes perfect sense when you account for the fact that they don't work.
>>you still have to look for the puncture.
> A bad puncture can be found in 5 seconds from the hissing noise and lump
> of glass or whatever sticking through the tyre.
That's fine if you're looking for glass shards the size of beer bottles.
Most of my punctures involve tiny shards of glass, or wire that I only find
when I get home and look over the tyre again in good light.
> For slow punctures, I
> agree it can be quicker to change the tube (although you should still
> check for cause of puncture in tyre).
Tyres go flat for a reason. You should always look (and feel) for the cause.
>> If you're worried about speed, carry spare tubes and a gas charge
>>pump. The trade-off is weight and cost.
> Again, using a glueless patch is FASTER than changing a tube WHEN it is
> obvious where the puncture is (because the whole tyre does not need to be
> removed, let alone the wheel). To be fair, it's not so easy on rear tyres
> with mudguards/fenders.
Some time back, I was given a number of glueless patches from my LBS. Never
used or seen them before. Thought they were cool.
Till I actually had to use them.
First one didn't last that day before losing pressure, the next one lasted a
number of days before losing pressure.
Got sick of that, buffed the tube (like I normally do), applied glue (like I
normally do), waited till tack dry (like I normally do), applied rubber patch
(like I normally do).
Tube still holds pressure today (like it normally does).
> This is such simple logic that I'm surprised more people can't appreciate
> that glueless patches do have a use. Ok, limited use, but it is some
> worthwhile use.
That's all very nice, but fact remains, that statistically people have by far
a better experience with glued patches rather than glueless.
The time and weight trade-off is so negligable that it really isn't
considered a trade-off.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622 <http://counter.li.org>
Rick Onanian
>Also, a big factor for me is that the tube is essentially wasted once I put a
>glueless patch on it because eventually the patch will work loose. Maybe
>somebody else has figured how to get that goop off and replace it with a real
>patch...but I haven't had any luck using alcohol or acetone.
How about putting on a really large glueful patch that can adhere
well outside of the goop-area?
--
Rick Onanian
John Tserkezis
> It's also purported to be the best way to repair scratched and
> scuffed CDs and DVDs (only for scratches on the clear side, not on
> the printed side). I've wholeheartedly failed to repair numerous
> such CDs with Brasso, toothpaste, a CD-scratch-repair machine, and
> numerous other methods.
It's getting a little off topic now, but brasso works on CDs. Start with
fine grain (+800) wet&dry emery paper, progressing to finer paper. Once you
get to the finest available, then switch to brasso (or silvo which I believe is
a slightly finer polish).
Technique is of upmost importance. Sand and buff in an "X" pattern, never in
line with the data (ie: no tangental strokes). Don't be heavy-handed, do be
very gentle and patient.
Take care with the label side, rest the CD on some soft cloth or such so you
don't accidently scratch that surface while you're working on the other side.
It's a fair bit of work, and IMO only worthwhile if you're desparate for that
particular CD.
Bernie
Carl Fogel wrote:
Here on Canada's west coast we'd still measure rain in feet, if we
hadn't gone metric.
A Muzi
>
>>We do not generally patch now, but when we did (and _lots_
>>of them every day) we used a normal "patch buffer" solvent
>>with a clean cloth. I still clean tubes that way for
>>patching the odd irreplaceable tube.
>>
>>When I was young I remember the old guys would smear cement
>>over the area, wait a moment and scrape it away with a
>>pocket knife. That was also effective in removing any dirt
>>and extraneous material from the tube's surface.
>>
>>I don't see a reason to use an abrasive in a shop when you
>>have a much more thorough and effective method of cleaning
>>available. The point is _not_ to texture or smooth the
>>tube; the point is to clean the surface detritus out of the
>>way so the glue and patch might adhere to the tube itself,
>>not the crud layer over it.
Pete Biggs wrote:
> Can solvent alone remove the mold release*?
>
> * http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.1.html
Yes, certainly, along with any other wax, oil, grease and
dirt. Look at the color of the cloth after you rub solvent
across the injury. Much of that crud would still be there
had you used a sandpaper.
Steve Blankenship
news:491fuvom3taiglme9...@4ax.com...
FWIW, these were reddish in color, and I see the ones on their site now look
clear. I imagine they source from whoever meets their price, so who knows
what those were! They did work though - surprised the heck out of me.
Think I'll try the ones Mike J. mentioned next.
SB
Pete Biggs
> But how much faster is it to put on the glueless patch than it is to
> smear a little glue on the area first? ....or can a glueless be
> applied without abrading the surface?
Surface does need to be abraided but that only takes seconds. It takes
minutes for glue to dry* before applying patch then some time afterwards
as well to allow it to cure. Not a huuuge amount of time is saved but
there are occasions when you want job done as rapidly as possible.
Another kind of "emergency" to add to the list: I've used them after
puncturing near to home on my way back when I've been too exausted to do
proper repair or tube change (or walk home). They really are that much
quicker and easier. The extra work of repairing properly can be done the
next day at home when recovered and comfortable.
* Normal patches should be applied only after cement is dry. Otherwise
there's a high chance of total failure or at least of edges not sticking
first time so requiring more glue/time. The "glue" works best as a dry
adhesive.
> Also, a big factor for me is that the tube is essentially wasted once
> I put a glueless patch on it because eventually the patch will work
> loose. Maybe somebody else has figured how to get that goop off and
> replace it with a real patch...but I haven't had any luck using
> alcohol or acetone.
Maybe it's worse with some brands than others. If it's really that hard
to remove the goop with some glueless patches, then ok, that's one more
good reason to not to use them. I've not found that to be a problem with
the Giyo ones (from Dyason's in the UK).
~PB
Pete Biggs
>>>> They are slower to apply.
>>> The same could be said for glueless patches
>> That doesn't make sense.
>
> It makes perfect sense when you account for the fact that they
> don't work.
Giyo glueless patches have worked well for me on several occasions.
>>> you still have to look for the puncture.
>
>> A bad puncture can be found in 5 seconds from the hissing noise and
>> lump
>> of glass or whatever sticking through the tyre.
>
> That's fine if you're looking for glass shards the size of beer
> bottles. Most of my punctures involve tiny shards of glass, or wire
> that I only find when I get home and look over the tyre again in good
> light.
About half of of my punctures can be found very quickly even when caused
by a tiny shard of glass by listening or feeling for escaping air then
looking for object/cut. (Ease of this will depend on type of tyre: maybe
easier with thin high pressure ones). The glueless job can sometimes
still be quicker than a tube change even when a few pumps are required to
reinflate to do this (although it often isn't).
The very slowest punctures won't need repairing until the desitination for
emergencies where's there's only a few miles left to go. Just continue on
low pressure or pump tyre.
>>> If you're worried about speed, carry spare tubes and a gas charge
>>> pump. The trade-off is weight and cost.
>
>> Again, using a glueless patch is FASTER than changing a tube WHEN it
>> is obvious where the puncture is (because the whole tyre does not
>> need to be removed, let alone the wheel). To be fair, it's not so
>> easy on rear tyres with mudguards/fenders.
Please note the emphasised words above.
> Some time back, I was given a number of glueless patches from my
> LBS. Never used or seen them before. Thought they were cool.
>
> Till I actually had to use them.
>
> First one didn't last that day before losing pressure, the next one
> lasted a number of days before losing pressure.
Lasting to the desitination with some rideable pressure can be all that's
required for emergencies. In fact though, I've had them working fine at
full pressure for a number of days. In any case, it's wise to replace
with a normal patch ASAP.
> fact remains, that statistically people
> have by far a better experience with glued patches rather than
> glueless.
That is missing the point. Yet again missing what these things are good
for. Please read my previous replies.
> The time and weight trade-off is so negligable that it really isn't
> considered a trade-off.
In addition to being worh carrying as a back-up fix, the time saved can be
vital on occasion: worth the trade-off of extra work later and a risk of
failure. Take the example of where you've only just got a couple of
minuites to spare to catch a train and puncture. A normal repair or tube
change will mean you'd definitely miss the train. Might also miss it if
the glueless patch doesn't work but you'll catch it if it does!
I agree using them to save weight/space is silly - unless the rider
expects to puncture only extremely rarely and wouldn't be too bothered if
the repair didn't work anyway. They are better than nothing at all.
~PB
Werehatrack
No, the ones I get are awful. The edges of the perforations are about
a sharp as a two-by-four, even though the margin of the disc is honed
to an edge that will flay the fingers if the user isn't careful. I
gave up sacrificing time and skin to those things; now, I just chuck
them as soon as I buy a kit, and stick a foot of one inch wide emery
cloth into the kit instead.
MP
was rather nervous once when I got a flat right before a century, and
the only spare tubes I had left were already patched with glueless
patches, but the one I put in lasted through that ride and hasn't
failed yet.
However, I admit that I haven't had to do the patching on the road.
It's been a long time since I've been so unfortunate as to get two
flats on one ride. I put in the spare tube when I get a flat and take
the failed tube home. Then I prep the area of the puncture properly
with sandpaper and don't use the tube until I need it. So I don't
know if these patches would work as well if I used them right after
patching.
The one time I did actually patch on the road, I don't know how it
turned out. That's because I ran in to another rider who had gotten a
flat and hadn't bothered to bring a pump or a patch kit. Don't know
if he got home or not, but I did my best.
I've also used the kind of patches that you glue on. That's pretty
easy to do at home also, but I would hate to mess around with it on
the road, and eventually I will get one more flat than I have extra
tubes.
MP
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 09:41:09 -0500, Sheldon Brown
<Capt...@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:
>Andrew Morris wrote:
>
>> has anyone had any problems with glueless patches unsticking themselves when
>> they have some pressure put to them?
>
>Yes, thousands of pepole have had this problem. That's why glueless
>patches are a loser product.
>
>> Had an issue with a repaired pinch flat, where the patch has lifted from the
>> puncture itself...
>
>Yes, this is to be expected with glueless patches.
>
>> had just repaired it again, so will see how this goes... just curious if
>> anyone else has had this, or maybe I put the first one on badly...
>
>Good luck. My advice is to buy a proper patch kit for three bucks.
>
>Sheldon "Not As If Real Patches Were Hard" Brown
>+-----------------------------------------+
>| There is a remedy for everything; |
>| it is called death. |
>| --Portuguese Proverb |
>+-----------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
>http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
MP
<mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
(snip
>There are two distinct types of "glueless" patches. One, made popular by
>Park, is a square patch of relatively stiff material, no feathered edge, and
>a sticky side sort of like adhesive on a piece of tape. I find those are
>*not* permanent.
(snip)
It's interesting that you would have that experience, because I've
found that the Park glueless patches work very well. Taking the time
to clean and prep the area of the puncture may make the difference.
MP
Pete Hickey
Ron Hardin <rhha...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Pete Hickey wrote:
>> Ron Hardin <rhha...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >There is the frozen glue problem;
>> Frozen glue? How cold? I've patched a tire at around -10F (coldest
>> I ever had a flat) and had no problem with frozen glue.
>I've had it freeze at about 20F, and had to put it in a pocket
>for quite a while to get it to flow.
I'll have to try again. Unfortunately we're having a warm
spell, with temperatures only dipping into the 20's. When
it gets colder (well below 0F), I'll leave a tube out for
a few hours to confirm. Still, I definately patched tubes
in very cold temperatures (one tends to remember things like
that) and have no memories of frozen glue.
--
--
"It's a sad day for american capitalism when a man
can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park."
J. Moran
Rick Onanian
<steveNOSPAM...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Rick Onanian" <spam...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> I'll give it another chance.
>
>clear. I imagine they source from whoever meets their price, so who knows
Mine were clear. I guess the reddish, thin, stretchy ones are the
good ones.
>SB
--
Rick Onanian
John Henderson
> ... I've found that the Park glueless patches work very well.
> Taking the time to clean and prep the area of the puncture may
> make the difference.
As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread (but where RB* had got
dropped from the group list), I've had 100% long-term success
with Park glueless.
I was told when I bought them to hold the patch very firmly
against the tube for at least a minute when applying it (longer
in cold weather, I presume). So that's what I've done.
Could this be an important part of the success? Or is everyone
doing that anyway? Admittedly, I was running only 65 PSI in the
MTB tyres. I'm now running Conti Travel Contact tyres at 85 PSI
(with new tubes), so I'm patiently waiting for my first puncture
to see how those patches handle the higher pressure.
John
Alex Rodriguez
jhenRem...@talk21.com says...
>As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread (but where RB* had got
>dropped from the group list), I've had 100% long-term success
>with Park glueless.
>I was told when I bought them to hold the patch very firmly
>against the tube for at least a minute when applying it (longer
>in cold weather, I presume). So that's what I've done.
>Could this be an important part of the success? Or is everyone
>doing that anyway? Admittedly, I was running only 65 PSI in the
>MTB tyres. I'm now running Conti Travel Contact tyres at 85 PSI
>(with new tubes), so I'm patiently waiting for my first puncture
>to see how those patches handle the higher pressure.
How long have your patches held up? I too use park patches and they
have all failed right around the 1 year mark. I only use them after
I have already used my spare tube. They are my emergency back up
and have worked well in that capacity. I now pull them out of my
tire and set them aside for a mass patching session.
---------------
Alex
John Henderson
> How long have your patches held up? I too use park patches and
> they have all failed right around the 1 year mark. I only use
> them after I have already used my spare tube. They are my
> emergency back up and have worked well in that capacity. I now
> pull them out of my tire and set them aside for a mass patching
> session.
Now that's interesting. The old rear tube had 4 Park patches,
with the oldest being just over a year old (and about 6,000 km in
that time).
John
Peter Cole
> How long have your patches held up? I too use park patches and they
> have all failed right around the 1 year mark.
This agrees with my experience. I've tried a few brands of glueless (mostly at
MTB pressures, but several at road), they all seemed to work ok initially, but
started to leak and lift after around a year.
kolo iinet.net.au>
black patches 6? to a small box under 2$ a box .
Also for home repairs in the craft section of bigger 2 dollars shops
they sell neat little plastic clamp pliers with a lock & 2 small square
waffle-like sandwiches which are perfect for sealing patches.
Andrew Morris
road, headwind back....
"Joel Mayes" <scr...@news.easynews.com.au> wrote in message
news:slrnbue10e...@bluebird.zenith...
> In article <bs58a1$9ptr1$1...@ID-137617.news.uni-berlin.de>, gaza wrote:
>
> > Greetings from the Gold Coast, Australia.
> > Forecast for today....
> > 32C.
> > Ocean Temp..24C
> > Light NE breeze...1m swell
> > Merry Xmas
>
> Bastard :-)
>
> I'm in Melbourne, Australia
> Raining and headwinds in *both* direction today :(
>
> --
> | Joel Mayes | /~\ ASCII Ribbon campaign
> | Accordionist | \_/ stop HTML mail and news
> | Musician | / \
> | Music Teacher |
John Henderson
> The goat-head has only two "horns," but its
> oddly-shaped body usually keeps one "horn"
> pointing up enough to greet a tire.
According to
http://plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/plant_profile.cgi?earl=plant_profile.cgi&symbol=EMAU,
Emex australis or the "three-corner-jack" (picture
http://www.agnet.org/library/image/eb497f10.html) might be
heading your way soon.
This seed, originally from southern Africa, has 3 spines cleverly
positioned at 120º in such a way that one is always vertical. It
ensures that puncture protection is taken very seriously in some
drier parts of southern Australia.
John
Carl Fogel
Dear John,
Scene from "Crocodile Henderson":
"That's not a caltrop."
[John snickers at Carl's mere goathead]
"This is a caltrop!"
[John pulls three-corner-jack from under his vest]
"Aaaargh!"
[Carl exits, whimpering]
Carl Fogel
John Henderson
> I'm now running Conti Travel Contact tyres at 85 PSI (with new
> tubes), so I'm patiently waiting for my first puncture to see
> how those patches handle the higher pressure.
I got my first puncture on these tyres yesterday. It was from a
stiff "Michelin wire", too fine to measure with my cheap vernier
calliper, so I don't begrudge the Kevlar belts letting it
through.
Anyhow, the Park glueless patch I used is still holding up at 85
PSI.
John
Alex Rodriguez
jhenRem...@talk21.com says...
FYI. The park patches I used were on my racing bike that regularly saw
120psi. That's the patch that held for a year.
--------------------
Alex
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>>> I'm now running Conti Travel Contact tyres at 85 PSI (with new
>>> tubes), so I'm patiently waiting for my first puncture to see how
>>> those patches handle the higher pressure.
>> I got my first puncture on these tyres yesterday. It was from a
>> stiff "Michelin wire", too fine to measure with my cheap vernier
>> caliper, so I don't begrudge the Kevlar belts letting it through.
>> Anyhow, the Park glueless patch I used is still holding up at 85
>> PSI.
> FYI. The park patches I used were on my racing bike that regularly
> saw 120psi. That's the patch that held for a year.
Higher pressure generally assures better patch survival if the patch
is not fully cured to the tube (such that you can't peel it off
manually). The softer the tire, the more it flexes. Tire casing flex
is what ultimately loosens glueless patches... or conventional ones
that have just been applied.
The test for this is to lay a paper business card between tube and
casing and observe what is left of the card after about 100 miles.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
Mark Buell
says...
> > A Muzi wrote:
Yeah, Andy! That's the first time I've heard something I hadn't heard
before about patching tubes in YEARS!
Thanks;
Mark "glad to finally be back on a newsserver" Spoken
David Damerell
>The longer a duration without flats you talk about on r.b.t, the
>higher the chances of that nasty goathead deflowering your wheel's
>butyl undergarments.
I flatted on Christmas Day AGAIN. It's starting to get to me...
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Trevor Brown
have had one go wonky. I put this down to user error as all the others have
been absolutely fine - on both road bikes and MTBs.
All the best, Trevor