Man struck by cyclist dies
eddiec
This can't be good.....
-------------
An elderly man has died in hospital after being struck by a cyclist in
Melbourne's south on the weekend.
The 77-year-old Mentone man was crossing Beach Road at a traffic light
near the intersection of Naples Road in Mentone at 8.30am on Saturday.
At the time, the "Hell Ride" - a weekly communal ride involving
cyclists in groups of 100 or more - was taking place along Beach Road.
A spokeswoman from Victoria Police said the elderly man had signalled
his intention to cross the road as cyclists approached, but he was
struck down and received serious head injuries.
The man was taken to the Alfred hospital, but a spokesman said he died
today.
Police said a 30-year-old man from St Kilda East would be issued with a
penalty notice for failing to obey a traffic light. The penalty carries
a $210 fine.
Police will prepare a report for the Coroner.
------------
Now I have no knowledge of the circumstances surrounding this, but in
the same way I'd be outraged if a motorist hurt me and got away with a
pitiful fine, $210 seems an awfully cheap way to kill someone...
No doubt the Hell ride will be surrounded by controversy once again...
--
eddiec
Bleve
for that ride, it was never matter of "if", but "when", someone would
get seriously hurt or killed.
Hitchy
Hmmm, sounds a 'little' late for the 'Hell ride', although they would
have been in the vicinity at this time. If the responsible party is
able to be identified they need to have the 'book' thrown at them
--
Hitchy
steve46au
who ran the lights should be charged with a heck of a lot more than
failing to obey a traffic light. Manslaughter comes to mind!
Lets face we get all upset when a motorist mows down a cyclist, why
should a cyclist killing a ped be any different?
--
steve46au
Shane Stanley
steve46au <steve46a...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Manslaughter comes to mind!
> Lets face we get all upset when a motorist mows down a cyclist, why
> should a cyclist killing a ped be any different?
When motorists start getting charged with manslaughter, you will have a
point. Not necessarily a good one, but more than you have now.
--
Shane Stanley
Bleve
steve46au wrote:
> Regardless as to whether the "hell Ride" was involved, the cyclist(s)
> who ran the lights should be charged with a heck of a lot more than
> failing to obey a traffic light. Manslaughter comes to mind!
> Lets face we get all upset when a motorist mows down a cyclist, why
> should a cyclist killing a ped be any different?
Agreed. We play by the same rules, or at least, we should.
Donga
> Agreed. We play by the same rules, or at least, we should.
I didn't see it written this was the only charge - there may well be
further charges after the investigation and report to the Coroner. I
expect the investigation will comment on the two sides of the story and
what charges are appropriate. A troll?
Donga
jim
"eddiec" <eddiec...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:eddiec...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com...
dave
Of course we dont actually know the circumstances of the accident. Its
remotely possible the cops know something we don;t that makes it deserve
the lesser charge.
Dave
dave
It should not be. But few here would argue different. And I expect few
motorists would. You are preaching to the converted.
Dave
sinus
eddiec Wrote:
> This can't be good.....
>
>
Hopefully the Coroners findings will come out quickly.
From The Australian..
HTTP://TINYURL.COM/GZRB3 (\"HTTP://TINYURL.COM/GZRB3\")
[/B]
[B]AN ELDERLY MAN HAS DIED AFTER BEING KNOCKED DOWN ON A PEDESTRIAN
CROSSING BY A SPEEDING CYCLIST IN AN UNOFFICIAL RACE CALLED THE \"HELL
RIDE\".
James Gould, 77, was on the crossing in Mentone in Victoria, when he
was hit by the cyclist about 8.30am (AEST) on Saturday. He died in
hospital yesterday.
The 30-year-old cyclist, from East St Kilda, will be issued with a
penalty notice for allegedly failing to stop at a red light.
A police source said the rider could not be charged with culpable
driving because he was not behind the wheel of a car.
The Hell Ride is a loosely organised race that attracts about 300
riders every Saturday.
It starts at a Black Rock roundabout at a designated time then snakes
along Beach Rd to Mt Eliza and back.
Cyclists reportedly reach more than 60km/h as they race along the bay.
The ride has been staged for more than 20 years and is not officially
aligned with a cycling club.
Mr Gould, from Mentone, was on a walk when he was hit while crossing
the road in front of the Mentone Surf Life Saving Club, near Naples Rd.
He was taken to The Alfred hospital with serious injuries.
Police told the -Herald Sun- the riders started early and were on their
way back from Frankston when he was hit.
Mr Gould strolled each day along the strip as a morning ritual.
His neighbour of four years, Richard Sherburn, said Mr Gould was a
jovial man who was well liked in Mentone.
"He used to walk down there every day and he'd smile and wave, and talk
to everyone," he said. "He loved living here near the beach and he was
always such a happy man."
Mr Gould, who was born in England, had never married or had children,
and told his neighbours he had no living family.
He jokingly referred to himself as the orphan.
Neighbours said Mr Gould worked at a city accountancy firm for 30 years
and since retiring often returned to England by ship for holidays.
A police officer said the Hell Ride was a regular problem through the
bayside suburbs as they raced along at up to 60km/h.
"It's an unofficial race. That's the easiest way to put it," the source
said.
"These guys have no regard for motorists.
"They ride on the wrong side of the road, they don't give way to cars,
they don't stop at red lights."
--
sinus
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> eddiec Wrote:
>> This can't be good.....
>
> Hopefully the Coroners findings will come out quickly.
It won't stop them coming out with utter bollocks like the following:
> "It's an unofficial race. That's the easiest way to put it," the source
> said.
>
> "These guys have no regard for motorists.
>
> "They ride on the wrong side of the road, they don't give way to cars,
> they don't stop at red lights."
Furffu!
--
TimC
pivot_root manpage: BUGS:
Some of the more obscure uses of pivot_root may quickly lead to insanity.
Marx SS
The implication is that all cyclists who ride up/down port Melb to
Frankston are involved in the "Hell ride".
The whole 'lemmings' behaviour in bunches out on the road (outside
competition) has got to stop.
--
Marx SS
Bleve
TimC wrote:
> On 2006-08-29, sinus (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> >
> > eddiec Wrote:
> >> This can't be good.....
> >
> > Hopefully the Coroners findings will come out quickly.
>
> It won't stop them coming out with utter bollocks like the following:
You're sure that's bollocks?
MalP
TimC Wrote:
>
>
> It won't stop them coming out with utter bollocks like the following:
>
> > "It's an unofficial race. That's the easiest way to put it," the
> source
> > said.
> >
> > "These guys have no regard for motorists.
> >
> > "They ride on the wrong side of the road, they don't give way to
> cars,
> > they don't stop at red lights."
>
> Furffu!
--
MalP
gplama
sinus Wrote:
>
> "They ride on the wrong side of the road, they don't give way to cars,
> they don't stop at red lights."
pffta.... I got caught at the back on a light change just the other
week...
--
gplama
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> TimC wrote:
>> On 2006-08-29, sinus (aka Bruce)
>> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> >
>> > eddiec Wrote:
>> >> This can't be good.....
>> >
>> > Hopefully the Coroners findings will come out quickly.
>>
>> It won't stop them coming out with utter bollocks like the following:
>
> You're sure that's bollocks?
<unsnip>
>> "It's an unofficial race. That's the easiest way to put it," the source
>> said.
OK, I'll give that for the front 50 or so of the bunch. The rest
there are merely participating with not a hope of taking out any of
the sprints :)
>> "These guys have no regard for motorists.
Not the ones who overtake stupidly, nor the ones that try to scream
across 3 lanes to turn left infront of the bunch from the traffic
light, even though they placed themselves in the right lane in the
first place by choice, as they arrived there well before we did. No,
why?
We had no problems with motorists who didn't choose to do something
stupid though. Maybe I was riding in an anomalous hell ride?
>> "They ride on the wrong side of the road, they don't give way to cars,
>> they don't stop at red lights."
Did we blatantly go through all red lights? We stopped at all lights
that were red before we got there, although on the ride I did, we
pushed through a single amber and subsequent red for a short time
before the rest of the bunch pulled up. No drivers or peds were
threatening to push their ways forward, so it wasn't horribly unsafe.
There was no riding on the wrong side of the road. And we yielded to
any motorist who we were legally obliged to give way to, apart from
that one short red-light episode (perhaps the copper thought that we
didn't give way to cars that wanted to pull out in front of us. Well
duh. It's nice to be in a situation where there's more of us who can
beat an errant motorist to a pulp, than them, for once).
In short, the quotation was a somewhat bent version of the truth.
--
TimC
"The application did not fail successfully because of an error"
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
Have you ridden it, or otherwise seen it, or just watched ACA or today
tonight?
--
TimC
All science is either physics or stamp collecting.
-- Ernest Rutherford
jazmo
I've read on another forum that apparently most of the hell ride got
through the pedestrian crossing and those at the tail end stopped at
the red light. A guy hanging off the back of the tail end decided to
overtake and keep going through, running into the pedestrian.
This is third hand of course.
We've seen this sort of thing so many times on Beach Rd. Was a matter
of time.
Not looking forward to enraged motorists playing target practice with
me when I'm out riding this weekend.
--
jazmo
MalP
TimC Wrote:
> On 2006-08-29, MalP (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> >
> > TimC Wrote:
>
> > Where is the utter bollocks there? I think it describes it rather
> well.
>
> Have you ridden it, or otherwise seen it, or just watched ACA or today
> tonight?
>
> --
> TimC
like what was going on. I see it regularly, as I live and ride down
that way. I don't watch commercial tv current affairs.
I know you've ridden it too:
"I beat lama, I beat lama! <jumps up and down>
OK, so I was about 1/3 of the way back in my first *hell ride*, and
everyone decided to blow a red despite plenty of calls of "stopping!",
and only about 30 riders stopped at the back. Lama was in that group,
so he had to timetrial all the way."
--
MalP
Bleve
TimC wrote:
> On 2006-08-29, MalP (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> >
> > TimC Wrote:
> >>
> >> It won't stop them coming out with utter bollocks like the following:
> >>
> >> > "It's an unofficial race. That's the easiest way to put it," the
> >> source
> >> > said.
> >> >
> >> > "These guys have no regard for motorists.
> >> >
> >> > "They ride on the wrong side of the road, they don't give way to
> >> cars,
> >> > they don't stop at red lights."
> >>
> >> Furffu!
> > Where is the utter bollocks there? I think it describes it rather well.
>
> Have you ridden it, or otherwise seen it, or just watched ACA or today
> tonight?
I've seen it spanning 3 lanes of beach rd. There's 2 lanes in each
direction. I've seen it pass straight through pedestrian crossings when
red (think Mentone, think Parkdale).
Terryc
> It won't stop them coming out with utter bollocks like the following:
>
>>"They ride on the wrong side of the road, they don't give way to cars,
>>they don't stop at red lights."
Could have been better said, but 2/3 are breaking the law
OTOH, constable plod needs a friendly re-education course that bicycle
do not have to give way to cars, as such.
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> through the pedestrian crossing and those at the tail end stopped at
> the red light. A guy hanging off the back of the tail end decided to
> overtake and keep going through, running into the pedestrian.
And it would make sense that way. I was speculating that it was the
whole bunch, and wondering why you would walk in front of a bunch of
cyclists that are showing no sign of stopping, but if the one guy who
keeps going was hidden from view, then of course you'd start walking
if it looks like everyone has stopped properly.
And it would would explain why it was damn obvious which cyclist was
at fault (although I was thinking at the time it may well have been a
hit and run, and this guy who gets charged with red light running was
some unrelated cyclist who just happened to be caught while the police
were attending).
I will still feel sorry for the stupid bugger who hit the ped. It'd
be damn obvious to him that he stuffed up and took a life. And it
could have been any one of 100+ riders, who just didn't have his hands
on his brakes soon enough (or he could have been a deliberate law
breaker who was destined to go back back to Frankston and load his
bike back onto his 4WD and go driving home, killing small kittens
along the way).
> Not looking forward to enraged motorists playing target practice with
> me when I'm out riding this weekend.
Oh fie! Yup, might not be fun. Might be a day to hook up a camera
whilst on the way to the crits. If only I had a bigger memory card.
--
TimC
Dijkstra probably hates me
(Linus Torvalds, on gotos in kernel/sched.c)
dechucka
"Terryc" <newsones...@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:44f3c92e$0$7791$61c6...@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
Interesting what are the road rules for cyclists in Victoria. When I ride
here in NSW I obey the same road rules as I do when driving ( with a few
exceptions). I give way to cars for 2 reasons it's the law afaik and they
are a lot bigger than me and will do more damage to me than I will do to
them
Terryc
> I give way to cars for 2 reasons it's the law afaik
Nope.
Theo Bekkers
> TimC Wrote:
>> Have you ridden it, or otherwise seen it, or just watched ACA or
>> today tonight?
> I know you've ridden it too:
>
> "I beat lama, I beat lama! <jumps up and down>
> OK, so I was about 1/3 of the way back in my first *hell ride*, and
> everyone decided to blow a red despite plenty of calls of "stopping!",
Oh dearie me Tim. You bad boy you. You will now be required to remove your
sanctimonious tone. :-)
Theo
Theo Bekkers
> Could have been better said, but 2/3 are breaking the law
Only 2/3? Surely racing is against the law, even if you're doing less than
the speed limit. How about riding more than 2 abreast?
Theo
Friday
> This can't be good.....
>
>
>
> An elderly man has died in hospital after being struck by a cyclist in
> Melbourne's south on the weekend.
>
> The 77-year-old Mentone man was crossing Beach Road at a traffic light
> near the intersection of Naples Road in Mentone at 8.30am on Saturday.
>
> At the time, the "Hell Ride" - a weekly communal ride involving
> cyclists in groups of 100 or more - was taking place along Beach Road.
>
> A spokeswoman from Victoria Police said the elderly man had signalled
> his intention to cross the road as cyclists approached, but he was
> struck down and received serious head injuries.
>
> The man was taken to the Alfred hospital, but a spokesman said he died
> today.
>
> penalty notice for failing to obey a traffic light. The penalty carries
> a $210 fine.
>
> Police will prepare a report for the Coroner.
>
> theage.com.au
>
>
> ------------
>
> Now I have no knowledge of the circumstances surrounding this, but in
> the same way I'd be outraged if a motorist hurt me and got away with a
> pitiful fine, $210 seems an awfully cheap way to kill someone...
>
> No doubt the Hell ride will be surrounded by controversy once again...
>
>
There's another article on this in the Age.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/fast-furious-and-fatal/2006/08/29/1156816899914.html
Friday
Theo Bekkers
> There's another article on this in the Age.
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/fast-furious-and-fatal/2006/08/29/1156816899914.html
That sounds reasoned, and reasonable to me.
Theo
warrwych
Define racing. I think the word "racing" is not used accurately within
these reports, and particular training activities (eg sprint efforts)
or fast-paced rolling bunches are seen as "racing" by the general
public/media/police. Having ridden on Beach Rd on both Saturday and
Sunday mornings several times a year, I don't see anyone racing. I do
see bunches rolling through at a pace, and individuals moving up and
down bunches, and between bunches, passing from slower groups or
indviduals to groups or individuals who are riding at a similar pace.
If racing were illegal, clubs wouldnt be able to hold races.
It is also legal for pairs of riders to be passing other pairs of
riders and remain 2 abreast while doing so (ie 4 across a lane). This
has been discussed elsewhere and at other times on this forum.
Yes, there are idiots,hoons, and simply ignorant riders out there who
do illegal things while riding, either deliberately or inadvertantly.
And yes, I am being pedantic, but please let's keep some perspective
and rationality on this one, rather than inflaming an already inflamed
subject (general comment and not targetted at Theo).
--
warrwych
cfsmtb
warrwych Wrote:
>
>
> And yes, I am being pedantic, but please let's keep some perspective
> and rationality on this one, rather than inflaming an already inflamed
> subject (general comment and not targetted at Theo).
You've defined it extremely well. Common enough for non-participants to
totally misinterpret what a bunch could be up to, I've lost count of the
times I've overheard the Alpine Classic being refered to as a "race" by
Bright residents. Or no-so-bright residents.
*ducks*
--
cfsmtb
warrwych
cfsmtb Wrote:
> You've defined it extremely well. Common enough for non-participants to
> totally misinterpret what a bunch could be up to, I've lost count of
> the times I've overheard the Alpine Classic being refered to as a
> "race" by Bright residents. Or no-so-bright residents.
>
> *ducks*
more than one cyclist in the vicinity of each other, in lycra, = a
race!!! :p
and to borrow from gplama's capacity for excellent analogies: the
alpine classic is as much a race as peak hour on the monash freeway.
--
warrwych
Theo Bekkers
> Theo Bekkers Wrote:
>> Only 2/3? Surely racing is against the law, even if you're doing less
>> than
>> the speed limit. How about riding more than 2 abreast?
> Define racing. I think the word "racing" is not used accurately within
> these reports, and particular training activities (eg sprint efforts)
> or fast-paced rolling bunches are seen as "racing" by the general
> public/media/police. Having ridden on Beach Rd on both Saturday and
> Sunday mornings several times a year, I don't see anyone racing.
When someone gloats to the ng that "I beat gplama" at least someone thought
it was a race.
> If racing were illegal, clubs wouldnt be able to hold races.
Racing on open public roads without a permit is illegal.
> It is also legal for pairs of riders to be passing other pairs of
> riders and remain 2 abreast while doing so (ie 4 across a lane). This
> has been discussed elsewhere and at other times on this forum.
Blah, blah, rationalise, blah.
> And yes, I am being pedantic, but please let's keep some perspective
> and rationality on this one, rather than inflaming an already inflamed
> subject (general comment and not targetted at Theo).
So why does everybody keep going on about McGee?
Theo
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> Theo Bekkers Wrote:
>
>>> Only 2/3? Surely racing is against the law, even if you're doing less
>>> than
>>> the speed limit. How about riding more than 2 abreast?
>
>> Define racing. I think the word "racing" is not used accurately within
>> these reports, and particular training activities (eg sprint efforts)
>> or fast-paced rolling bunches are seen as "racing" by the general
>> public/media/police. Having ridden on Beach Rd on both Saturday and
>> Sunday mornings several times a year, I don't see anyone racing.
>
> When someone gloats to the ng that "I beat gplama" at least someone thought
> it was a race.
Well not really. I gloat whenever I pass lama on an imaginary line
whenever he slows down. In a real race, I wouldn't have a hope in
hell of beating lama.
Given that 150/200 of the riders are going to have no chance of
beating the rest of the bunch, ever, do you think they are going to be
treating it as a race, or merely just participating in it as a
training ride? And given that it was the riders at the back that are
more likely to blow any reds, then they aren't racing, are they?
>> If racing were illegal, clubs wouldnt be able to hold races.
>
> Racing on open public roads without a permit is illegal.
I sure as hope that training rides aren't illegal. If they are, Amy
got everything she deserved.
>> It is also legal for pairs of riders to be passing other pairs of
>> riders and remain 2 abreast while doing so (ie 4 across a lane). This
>> has been discussed elsewhere and at other times on this forum.
>
> Blah, blah, rationalise, blah.
Heh. Damn analysis.
>> And yes, I am being pedantic, but please let's keep some perspective
>> and rationality on this one, rather than inflaming an already inflamed
>> subject (general comment and not targetted at Theo).
>
> So why does everybody keep going on about McGee?
Let me see. Primarily because he evaded justice deliberately? Uses
his priveleged position and knowledge of the system to evade justice?
Drove in a highly irresponsible manner taking risks that would be very
likely to harm unrelated third parties, and driving with not all his
faculties in place?
A bit different to a guy riding a bike, below the speed and alcohol
limits, who hasn't yet been proven whether he had been riding
irresonsibly for the past hour and a half, or whether this was just a
moment where he couldn't get to his brakes in time.
--
TimC
Examples of valid code in PL/1 (courtesy many people)
if if = then then then = else; else else = if;
do do = by by to to while while(until) until(end);
gplama
Theo Bekkers Wrote:
>
> When someone gloats to the ng that "I beat gplama" at least someone
> thought
> it was a race.
>
oi.. please.. I'm still getting over that defeat, no need to rub it in
;)
C'mon peoples... happy place happy place... I had a driver wave and
smile at me today because I gave way to him at a round-a-bout (which is
what I should have done anyways (and DID)). I returned a smile and a
nod.. it was great... I then nearly got taken out head-on by a 4WD no
more than 30 seconds later, but hey, thems the breaks!
--
gplama
Theo Bekkers
> Theo Bekkers wrote
> Given that 150/200 of the riders are going to have no chance of
> beating the rest of the bunch, ever, do you think they are going to be
> treating it as a race, or merely just participating in it as a
> training ride? And given that it was the riders at the back that are
> more likely to blow any reds, then they aren't racing, are they?
By that definition most of the sprinters in the TdeF weren't actually
racing. :-)
A pack of 200 riders on a public road? Shit, that does sound dangerous.
>> So why does everybody keep going on about McGee?
> A bit different to a guy riding a bike, below the speed and alcohol
> limits, who hasn't yet been proven whether he had been riding
> irresonsibly for the past hour and a half, or whether this was just a
> moment where he couldn't get to his brakes in time.
You need to ride irresponsibly for an hour and a half before you become
culpable?
Having said that, I almost feel sorry for him.
Theo
Theo Bekkers
> I then nearly got taken out head-on by a 4WD no more than 30 seconds
> later,
Wasn't me, my ute is 2WD. :-)
Theo
cfsmtb
warrwych Wrote:
> aaaah Theo, so articulate, so entertaining :D blah blah blah :p
>
Add in lame as well. Seems the poor old bugger can't help himself.
--
cfsmtb
warrwych
aaaah Theo, so articulate, so entertaining :D blah blah blah :p
and re: McGee. McGee ran away to sober up and get his brother to help
him out. The cyclist who hit Mr Gould apparently stopped and assisted.
That's the difference.
--
warrwych
Theo Bekkers
> and re: McGee. McGee ran away to sober up and get his brother to help
> him out. The cyclist who hit Mr Gould apparently stopped and assisted.
> That's the difference.
Agreed.
Theo
Theo Bekkers
> warrwych Wrote:
Hehe.
Theo
dechucka
> dechucka wrote:
>> I give way to cars for 2 reasons it's the law afaik
>
> Nope.
Isn't it please enlighten me
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> Theo Bekkers wrote
>
>> Given that 150/200 of the riders are going to have no chance of
>> beating the rest of the bunch, ever, do you think they are going to be
>> treating it as a race, or merely just participating in it as a
>> training ride? And given that it was the riders at the back that are
>> more likely to blow any reds, then they aren't racing, are they?
>
> By that definition most of the sprinters in the TdeF weren't actually
> racing. :-)
Most of the sprinters? Sure, they were racing for the stage, not the
GC.
It's also a teams race, and most of them aren't racing, they're merely
trying to hang on for as long as possible so they're able to support
other riders who are.
> A pack of 200 riders on a public road? Shit, that does sound dangerous.
Well, Harry Barber's own ATB and GVBRs have bigger packs, with less
experienced more gumby riders. Sure, they have police presence, but
only covering about 1% of the actual length of the field in a given
day.
>>> So why does everybody keep going on about McGee?
>
>> A bit different to a guy riding a bike, below the speed and alcohol
>> limits, who hasn't yet been proven whether he had been riding
>> irresonsibly for the past hour and a half, or whether this was just a
>> moment where he couldn't get to his brakes in time.
>
> You need to ride irresponsibly for an hour and a half before you become
> culpable?
Demonstrated culpability vs error of judgement.
--
TimC
"It took people a long time to figure out which machine was [mooing],
and even longer to figure out how. But for some reason it didn't take
them any time at all to figure that I'd done it." -- Paul Tomblin on ASR
Terryc
> Isn't it please enlighten me
I know of nothing in NSW that says that I, whilst specifically riding a
bicycle, that I must give way to any motor vehicle. The only stuff that
I know of relates to all (mv, bicycle, etc) road users anyway.
Bleve
Theo Bekkers wrote:
> TimC wrote:
> > Theo Bekkers wrote
>
> > Given that 150/200 of the riders are going to have no chance of
> > beating the rest of the bunch, ever, do you think they are going to be
> > treating it as a race, or merely just participating in it as a
> > training ride? And given that it was the riders at the back that are
> > more likely to blow any reds, then they aren't racing, are they?
>
> By that definition most of the sprinters in the TdeF weren't actually
> racing. :-)
> A pack of 200 riders on a public road? Shit, that does sound dangerous.
It is. Moreso when it's mostly riders desperatly trying to go as fast
as they can to stay with the bunch. It is less of an issue with mass
participation tootles (ATB etc) although there is a greater (IMO) risk
in these rides than there is in small bunches.
What happened, was bound to happen, sooner or later, which does not
dimish the responsibility of those involved. I have actively
discouraged the riders I work with from participating in the hellride
for years, as I didn't want them (or indirectly, myself) involved in
the inevitable serious injury or death.
Any coach that encourages their riders to participate in rides like the
hellride is, IMO, grossly irresponsible. Any rider that participates in
it, the same. Even if you play by the rules while doing it, a
significant number of riders do not, and being part of it validates
that behaviour. I stopped recommending the north rd fast rides a few
years ago when the size of them swelled to the point that they broke up
at lights and the bunch started shooting reds regularly. IMO it became
too dangerous to support.
We use public roads responsibly and abide by the road laws, and keep
our bunch sizes small so they're manageable and a lot less dangerous
than 200 mostly wannabes on the rivet trying to get cred at cafe
wanker. Now those wankers have a scalp to be proud of. Well done ....
As cfs has quoted, riding well is riding advocacy, but riding badly
harms us all.
Jono L
The Hell Ride ain't anywhere near as dangerous as a B Grade Glenvale
Criterium, and it's NOT even a race.
--
Jono L
Zebee Johnstone
Bleve <carl.I...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We use public roads responsibly and abide by the road laws, and keep
> our bunch sizes small so they're manageable and a lot less dangerous
> than 200 mostly wannabes on the rivet trying to get cred at cafe
> wanker. Now those wankers have a scalp to be proud of. Well done ....
> As cfs has quoted, riding well is riding advocacy, but riding badly
> harms us all.
Going to be interesting to see if behaviour changes in the short and
long terms.
I presume it will in the short term if only because there's bound to
be a police blitz.
But in the long term? Probably not, because the niche is going to be
filled with the same kind of people as fill it now. Unless the
crackdown makes changes so that the ride as it currently exists has to
change.
Not sure what those could be though, as things like permanent police
presence at reds would cost too much.
As the people involved aren't really linked except by liking bikes
there doesn't seem to be much anyone can do in the way of social
engineering. If you are in the bunch that makes the light would you
know if the bod behind you didn't, and what could you do to show
displeasure and (crucially) discourage him from doing it again?
Zebee
ritcho
Jono L Wrote:
> The Hell Ride ain't anywhere near as dangerous as a B Grade Glenvale
> Criterium, and it's NOT even a race.
WTF do you know about B-grade? (unless sandbagging, of course) :D
Ritch
(... wtf do I know about the Hell ride, or Glenvale crits...)
--
ritcho
Bleve
> The Hell Ride ain't anywhere near as dangerous as a B Grade Glenvale
> Criterium, and it's NOT even a race.
There's road closures, permits, controlled intersections. It's *legal*
and there's commisaires who can evict riders who don't abide by the
rules (I know .. I sometimes am one of those commisaires). We work
hard to make it safe for everyone.
Bleve
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on 30 Aug 2006 02:27:29 -0700
> Bleve <carl.I...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > We use public roads responsibly and abide by the road laws, and keep
> > our bunch sizes small so they're manageable and a lot less dangerous
> > than 200 mostly wannabes on the rivet trying to get cred at cafe
> > wanker. Now those wankers have a scalp to be proud of. Well done ....
> > As cfs has quoted, riding well is riding advocacy, but riding badly
> > harms us all.
>
> Going to be interesting to see if behaviour changes in the short and
> long terms.
>
> I presume it will in the short term if only because there's bound to
> be a police blitz.
>
> But in the long term? Probably not, because the niche is going to be
> filled with the same kind of people as fill it now. Unless the
> crackdown makes changes so that the ride as it currently exists has to
> change.
Agreed.
> Not sure what those could be though, as things like permanent police
> presence at reds would cost too much.
>
> As the people involved aren't really linked except by liking bikes
> there doesn't seem to be much anyone can do in the way of social
> engineering. If you are in the bunch that makes the light would you
> know if the bod behind you didn't, and what could you do to show
> displeasure and (crucially) discourage him from doing it again?
There's not much you can do, which is a major reason for why I stopped
participating in those sorts of rides some time ago. The idiots will
be idiots, and there's new idiots every day.
Every few years there's a crackdown on it, it gets better behaved for a
few weeks, then it's back to what it was.
Donga
safe riding, and publicise this as a good model? See
http://www.southbankbunch.com/ (Brisbane). Anyone who doesn't want to
follow the code is invited to leave. I'm sure lots of you do this
already. The point is to go on the front foot about it, with a
positive, public message.
Donga
alison_b
Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on 30 Aug 2006 02:27:29 -0700
> Bleve <carl.I...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > We use public roads responsibly and abide by the road laws, and keep
> > our bunch sizes small so they're manageable and a lot less dangerous
> > than 200 mostly wannabes on the rivet trying to get cred at cafe
> > wanker. Now those wankers have a scalp to be proud of. Well done ....
> > As cfs has quoted, riding well is riding advocacy, but riding badly
> > harms us all.
>
> Going to be interesting to see if behaviour changes in the short and
> long terms.
>
>
are anything to go by. This morning was a "straight to work" morning
(ie. I was only on the bike for about 15 minutes and ten of those are
in Royal Park). Four cyclists went through red traffic lights (two of
them causing drivers to take evasive action), another went through a
pedestrian crossing on the red (the pedestrians kindly waited for him),
one dill had to practice track stands at a busy intersection and managed
to wobble over at least one lane of the two lane cross road (this after
other cyclists making sure he had plenty of place to fall over without
taking the rest of us out) before the light actually changed.
I doubt that it is lack of skills that is the issue.
ali
--
alison_b
eddiec
A few interesting letters in The Age today about the incident (There's
also a poll on whether cyclists should be subject to the same laws,
but those polls are a joke...)
Most of the letters are well done, but the last one is a corker as
someone calls for the complete segregation of cyclists and motorists in
a manner which "must not penalise the motorist"... :rolleyes:
Hmm... he lives in Kew - perhaps a brief visit is in order :)
--
eddiec
dechucka
"Terryc" <newsones...@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:44f3e6cf$0$7794$61c6...@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
> dechucka wrote:
>> I give way to cars for 2 reasons it's the law afaik
>
> Nope.
yes it is you give way to cars riding a bike just as you would if you were
driving a car.
If some bike riders actually obeyed the road rules it would be better
instead of thinking they are special in some way. For example I am a bike
rider I don't have to obey red lights, pedestrian crossing rules etc etc
which happens in the "Hell Ride " from what I have observed. Probably the
bunch that I saw and road with for a while were the macho butch feral types
but they had no respect for any other road users including fellow riders.
The only reason I went along was because a mate at the footy game ( not
VFL ) I went down to Melb for suggested it and lent me a bike, never again
some riders were more feral than Sydney courier riders.
dechucka
"John Pitts" <kis...@dodo.chapeau.com.au.invalid> wrote in message
news:pqdhs3-...@leafnode.kisoau@news.dodo.com.au...
> subject to the same rules as other road vehicles. Nip down to the RTA
> (NSW) or equivalent if you're in another state. They'll have a booklet
> for cyclists which explains it all.
so cyclists do have to give way to cars just as any vehicle does
Bleve
a few years ago now, Crowy and CCCC (and maybe stkc?) started the
'7:07' as an alternative, leaving 7 mins after the hell ride. I did it
on the first ride.
It didn't last
Dave Hughes
> so cyclists do have to give way to cars just as any vehicle does
At an intersection or similar, yes. The way your original post was phrased
it appeared to say you jumped out of the way of every car you saw, no
matter where you were. There are plenty of bike riders who do that kind of
thing.
Sometimes it's appropriate (ducking off the road for a minute to let a line
of waiting traffic through is social behaviour no matter what vehicle
you're in/on), sometimes it's not (trying to do so on a busy suburban
road with any frequency is dangerous).
--
Dave Hughes | da...@hired-goons.net
Love wouldn't be blind if the braille wasn't so damned much fun.
- Armistead Maupin
cfsmtb
Bleve Wrote:
>
> a few years ago now, Crowy and CCCC (and maybe stkc?) started the
> '7:07' as an alternative, leaving 7 mins after the hell ride. I did
> it
> on the first ride.
On another note, SKCC have organised a memorial ride for Friday night.
Not entirely convinced this is the best course of action when events
are still rather overheated. Suppose it's personal choice and/or call
if people wish to ride.
****************
'St Kilda Cycling Club' (http://www.skcc.com.au/)
SKCC committee and its members were shocked and saddened to hear of the
tragic death of James Gould, a pedestrian who was hit by a cyclist and
subsequently died from injuries sustained. It is understood the cyclist
failed to stop at the ‘red’ pedestrian lights at Mentone and collided
with Mr Gould.
The Club strongly supports safe and responsible cycling and condemns
irresponsible behaviour by cyclists and motorists alike. As cyclists we
support the shared and safe use of the great amenity that is Beach Road.
In the busy period in the lead up to summer and major events like Around
the Bay in a Day, this incident serves as a reminder to all cyclists to
be responsible every time.
As a sign of respect, please join a SKCC ride this FRIDAY 1 SEPTEMBER
leaving Café Racer at 6am and joining the North Road Ride to stop at
Mentone for a minute’s silence.
Please wear your SKCC as a show of solidarity that cyclists must obey
the road rules and ride responsibly.
--
cfsmtb
Bleve
cfsmtb wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
> >
> > a few years ago now, Crowy and CCCC (and maybe stkc?) started the
> > '7:07' as an alternative, leaving 7 mins after the hell ride. I did
> > it
> > on the first ride.
>
> On another note, SKCC have organised a memorial ride for Friday night.
> Not entirely convinced this is the best course of action when events
> are still rather overheated. Suppose it's personal choice and/or call
> if people wish to ride.
I'm not sure how I feel about that, part of me says 'show the public
we're not all turds', and part says 'stay away from this stuff' (not
well worded, sorry :( ).
as you say, personal choice ...
It's interesting that they didn't propose to do it on Tues or Thurs
morning ... they're the fast rides, and I'll wager that those bunches
are just as badly behaved as ever.
warrwych
I'm inclined to think "stay away" 1) I feel the ironic
inappropriateness (ie surely there has to be a more considerate way??)
in displaying sorrow in this way and 2) the cynic says its SKCC's way
of saying "hey, it wasn't us; we're not part of the hell ride" via a
public mass display of their kit....
--
warrwych
dechucka
"Dave Hughes" <spam...@hired-goons.net> wrote in message
news:44f63739$0$1373$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:44:39 +1000, dechucka wrote:
>
>> so cyclists do have to give way to cars just as any vehicle does
>
> At an intersection or similar, yes. The way your original post was phrased
> it appeared to say you jumped out of the way of every car you saw, no
> matter where you were. There are plenty of bike riders who do that kind of
> thing.
>
> Sometimes it's appropriate (ducking off the road for a minute to let a
> line
> of waiting traffic through is social behaviour no matter what vehicle
> you're in/on), sometimes it's not (trying to do so on a busy suburban
> road with any frequency is dangerous).
and TerryC's post suggested that cyclists don't have to give way to cars. If
I misunderstood I apologise
Terryc
> and TerryC's post suggested that cyclists don't have to give way to cars. If
> I misunderstood I apologise
Naa, no aps needed, just claim your share of the lane {:-)
Althrough, since I ride so slowly, I usually wave cars through anyway,
but always acknowledge when people so "no, you go first". I guess they
just like to see sanata claus on a bicycle {:-)}}}.
Terryc
> "Terryc" <newsones...@woa.com.au> wrote in message
> news:44f3e6cf$0$7794$61c6...@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
>
>>dechucka wrote:
>>
>>>I give way to cars for 2 reasons it's the law afaik
>>
>>Nope.
>
>
> yes it is you give way to cars riding a bike just as you would if you were
> driving a car.
exactly.
> some riders were more feral than Sydney courier riders.
<asbestos> mtb, downhills, roadies, etc </asbestos>
Everyone except tourers {:-).
Jono L
ritcho Wrote:
> WTF do you know about B-grade? (unless sandbagging, of course) :D
>
> Ritch
>
hadn't even raced B Grade! Just some interesting facts..
--
Jono L
Aeek
<idomybestw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
The Bunch Tips are especially useful for newcomers, i.e.
"Look ahead
Do not become obsessed with the rear wheel directly in front of you.
Try to focus four or five riders up the line so that any 'problem'
will not suddenly affect you. Scan the road ahead for potential
problems, red lights etc, and be ready."
I was told "Look at the rider, not at the wheel", snappier but your
way is clearer.
Andre ----------------------------------------- Speed Thrills
Andre
Paulus
the same time' means the riders could have been at Frankston!
"eddiec" <eddiec...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:eddiec...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com...
>
> This can't be good.....
>
> -------------
>
>
> An elderly man has died in hospital after being struck by a cyclist in
> Melbourne's south on the weekend.
>
> The 77-year-old Mentone man was crossing Beach Road at a traffic light
> near the intersection of Naples Road in Mentone at 8.30am on Saturday.
>
> At the time, the "Hell Ride" - a weekly communal ride involving
> cyclists in groups of 100 or more - was taking place along Beach Road.
>
> A spokeswoman from Victoria Police said the elderly man had signalled
> his intention to cross the road as cyclists approached, but he was
> struck down and received serious head injuries.
>
> The man was taken to the Alfred hospital, but a spokesman said he died
> today.
>
> Police said a 30-year-old man from St Kilda East would be issued with a
> penalty notice for failing to obey a traffic light. The penalty carries
> a $210 fine.
>
> Police will prepare a report for the Coroner.
>
> theage.com.au
>
>
> ------------
>
> Now I have no knowledge of the circumstances surrounding this, but in
> the same way I'd be outraged if a motorist hurt me and got away with a
> pitiful fine, $210 seems an awfully cheap way to kill someone...
>
> No doubt the Hell ride will be surrounded by controversy once again...
>
>
> --
> eddiec
>