Audax Rides and Travel Insurance
Rob Berry
This issue just came up for me and thought I would share it around so
others can be aware of it and possibly avoid it in future.
I had a bad crash on a 200km randonee in early December (In Search of
Hills) which resulted in me spending a bit of time in hospital with a
broken shoulder blade, amongst other injuries. To compound my misery,
the day after the randonee I was booked on a flight to Japan for a
three week holiday.
Fortunately I had bought travel insurance and my claim has just been
paid, so I'll be heading to Japan in a few months when I've recovered
and I'm not out of pocket. To get to this point required some
negotiations with the insurance company, though, over the nature of an
Audax randonee.
The insurance company naturally has a long list of situations in which
the policy will not be honoured, one of which is:
"Participation in (or training for) the following activities:
...
• racing of any sort (other than on foot);
..."
As soon as the insurance company heard "bicycle crash", I was asked
"were you involved in a race?". Rather than a simple "no", I gave some
details about the ride I was on and about Audax as a concept, arguing
that I was not participating in a race, rather I was riding
recreationally. Within the first two sentences of the "About Audax"
section on the Audax Australia website it is noted that randonees are
"non-competitive" and that "the challenge of Audax is not in racing" -
indeed, this is the fundamental, determining historical
characteristic of Audax riding.
The insurance company was and is not convinced. The main issue for
them is the time limit - I might not have been racing against other
riders, but I was "racing the clock" in order to succesfully complete
the ride. Fortunately, "as a gesture of goodwill", they have decided
to make an exception in my case and pay out the claim despite the fact
that, in their eyes, I was racing.
So, a more or less happy ending. I was impressed by the fact that the
insurance company clearly did take an interest in coming to terms with
Audax, and to an extent I can understand their position, though I do
think there appear to be fairly arbitrary distinctions between
participating or training for a bicycle race and just riding your
bicycle. If I was riding the same route by myself with no official
time limit it appears that the insurance company would have been happy
to accept that I was a recreational rider, but what if I was riding it
as hard as I could to achieve a personal best time? Would that have
been racing? I was riding the randonee at a comfortable speed for me,
which would have had me finishing a couple of hours inside the time
limit, so certainly did not feel like I was really "racing the clock".
Am I "racing the clock" on my daily commute to work? After all, I have
a time limit - I need to get to work on time! If I had my accident
while riding my bicycle to work they would have paid the claim without
question, it would appear.
I do hope that no one finds themselves in this situation themselves,
but I thought that everyone should be aware that insurance companies
look like they will consider participation in an Audax event as a race
and that you should definitely be aware if this will have an impact on
the extent to which you are covered.
Enjoy your summer of riding!
Rob Berry
Glen Thompson
Thanks for this interesting info. I'm glad it turned out OK for you.
I had a bad crash in Sept 2010 on the 2nd day of a 600 and spent a month in
hospital but I wasn't in your situation with travel booked. BTW, I was a
bit disappointed how little effective cover I in fact had in my two cycling
insurance policies, neither of which ended up being any use, but my medical
costs were low anyway. (I was never charged for my helicopter rescue).
Glen
-----Original Message-----
From: auda...@googlegroups.com [mailto:auda...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Rob Berry
Sent: Friday, 30 December 2011 1:23 PM
Hi all,
This issue just came up for me and thought I would share it around so
others can be aware of it and possibly avoid it in future.
I had a bad crash on a 200km randonee in early December (In Search of
Hills) which resulted in me spending a bit of time in hospital with a
broken shoulder blade, amongst other injuries. To compound my misery,
the day after the randonee I was booked on a flight to Japan for a
three week holiday.
Fortunately I had bought travel insurance and my claim has just been
paid, so I'll be heading to Japan in a few months when I've recovered
and I'm not out of pocket. To get to this point required some
negotiations with the insurance company, though, over the nature of an
Audax randonee.
The insurance company naturally has a long list of situations in which
the policy will not be honoured, one of which is:
"Participation in (or training for) the following activities:
...
. racing of any sort (other than on foot);
..."
Rob Berry
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"audax oz" group.
To unsubscribe, send email to audax-oz+u...@googlegroups.com
Peter McCallum
Glen Thompson
Yes indeed. Although I'm not a fast rider, the 15km/h minimum speed hardly
makes it a race by any stretch of the imagination.
Glen
-----Original Message-----
From: auda...@googlegroups.com [mailto:auda...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Peter McCallum
Sent: Friday, 30 December 2011 1:56 PM
Maybe the website could include a statement that the time limits are very
generous to preclude the need to race.
On 30/12/2011, at 12:52 PM, Rob Berry <nolong...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> This issue just came up for me and thought I would share it around so
> others can be aware of it and possibly avoid it in future.
>
> I had a bad crash on a 200km randonee in early December (In Search of
> Hills) which resulted in me spending a bit of time in hospital with a
> broken shoulder blade, amongst other injuries. To compound my misery,
> the day after the randonee I was booked on a flight to Japan for a
> three week holiday.
>
> Fortunately I had bought travel insurance and my claim has just been
> paid, so I'll be heading to Japan in a few months when I've recovered
> and I'm not out of pocket. To get to this point required some
> negotiations with the insurance company, though, over the nature of an
> Audax randonee.
>
> The insurance company naturally has a long list of situations in which
> the policy will not be honoured, one of which is:
>
> "Participation in (or training for) the following activities:
> ...
> . racing of any sort (other than on foot);
Helen Lew Ton
Rob Berry
Helen, the point about CA's categorisation of the Audax club and its
activities as recreational rather than racing is about as strong an
argument as there would be that a randonee is not a race. I'll let the
insurance company know about that, thanks very much.
Rob
On Dec 30, 2:58 pm, Helen Lew Ton <hmlew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Our membership cards, which are issued by Cycling Australia are
> recreational licences and most definitely do not cover members for racing.
> If you look at the membership page on the website, it is abundantly clear
> that another class of licence is required, as is membership of another
> club, if an Audax member also wishes to race.
>
> Whatever, the travel insurance company may think, I think that you can be
> confident that neither Cycling Australia (who arrange our insurance) nor
> Willis Australia (the company that provides the cover), regards our events
> as races. For a start the club's annual insurance bill would be much higher!
>
> Helen Lew Ton
> Secretary
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Glen Thompson <gthom...@adam.com.au> wrote:
> > Peter,
> > Yes indeed. Although I'm not a fast rider, the 15km/h minimum speed hardly
> > makes it a race by any stretch of the imagination.
> > Glen
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: auda...@googlegroups.com [mailto:auda...@googlegroups.com] On
> > Behalf
> > Of Peter McCallum
> > Sent: Friday, 30 December 2011 1:56 PM
>
> > Maybe the website could include a statement that the time limits are very
> > generous to preclude the need to race.
>
Alan Tonkin
If was looking down from my insurance office window in Zurich and saw the cyclists going about their daily business, no helmets, hair flowing in breeze, baskets on the front, all ages, women in skirts, some in suits, some shopping, some going to work, some just cruising, I'd think to myself "wot a lovely lot of recreational cyclists" - wot a low insurance risk this lot are.
But if I was on holiday, away from my desk in Zurich, and sitting in coffee shop in late August on holiday in Dreux over hearing an aging staggering sleep deprived rider, lycra clad and with national emblems emblazened over the jersey, bemoaning the fact they had to now average 30kph to get to Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines before the cut off time, I'd think to myself this must be one hell of a race - wot an insurance liability this lot are.
Point being - who defined Audax as recreational and has the definition been legally tested?
IMHO it isn't recreational by the popular understanding of the word and it definitely ain't racing but it sure is enduring :) and high risk at times with sleep deprived cyclists trying to finish within a time limit no matter how generous that may seem when everything is going well and the distance is relatively short.
C'ya
Alan
> Peter McCallum <peterm...@me.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe the website could include a statement that the time limits are
> very generous to preclude the need to race.
>
>
>
> On 30/12/2011, at 12:52 PM, Rob Berry <nolong...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > This issue just came up for me and thought I would share it around so
> > others can be aware of it and possibly avoid it in future.
> >
> > I had a bad crash on a 200km randonee in early December (In Search of
> > Hills) which resulted in me spending a bit of time in hospital with a
> > broken shoulder blade, amongst other injuries. To compound my misery,
> > the day after the randonee I was booked on a flight to Japan for a
> > three week holiday.
> >
> > Fortunately I had bought travel insurance and my claim has just been
> > paid, so I'll be heading to Japan in a few months when I've recovered
> > and I'm not out of pocket. To get to this point required some
> > negotiations with the insurance company, though, over the nature of an
> > Audax randonee.
> >
> > The insurance company naturally has a long list of situations in which
> > the policy will not be honoured, one of which is:
> >
> > "Participation in (or training for) the following activities:
> > ...
> > � racing of any sort (other than on foot);
----------------------------------------------
Alan Tonkin
Ph.Oz: 03 9890 2420
Ph Int: +61 3 9890 2420
Mobile: +61 4 1989 1030
alant...@optusnet.com.au
Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your
muscles than by the artifice of a derailleur?
As for me, give me a fixed gear!
Henri Desgrange: Founder of Tour de France
1903 & Audax France 1904
rkruz
My dictionary defines recreation as "a pastime, diversion, exercise, or
other resource affording relaxation and enjoyment."
While it may not always be relaxing and enjoyable, as in the circumstances
you describe, I am sure the tax office would see Audax riding only as a
pastime. It doesn't rate as income earning and therefore we can't claim on
tax the cost of bikes and equipment including maintenance, or the travel to
and from rides. Pity about that as I am sure most Audax riders could claim
in the several thousands of dollars or more every year.
Rodney
G'day folks
C'ya
Alan
> > � racing of any sort (other than on foot);
Kerri-Ann Smith
It's an interesting discussion on travel insurance and Rob's insurance
company's conception of "racing of any sort". This issue was also
discussed around the time of PBP 2007 and the insurance ultimately
provided for the actual ride.
As I'm sure our northern NSW and Qld friends who suffered "flood"
damage would attest, the devil of any insurance policy is in the
definition. Some paid up, some didn't depending on their
interpretation and application of their definition in their contract
of "flood ".
While it could be useful to assert that our CA licenses are
"recreational", it would not be considered definitive in a court of
law if it came to that.
But we are better placed as individuals to argue in any dispute that
we are not participating in "racing" when our self identity,
promotional website, published material and our rider's attitudes
provide evidence that we are not racing. Others have pointed out these
characteristics. And it also includes our time-honoured approach of
not publishing results of ride completion in order of finishing. I
like the fact that we pride ourselves on doing our individual best and
participating with a group of like-minded cyclists, not trying to race
against each other (while acknowledging the competitive streak that
urges us to push that bit harder up the hill or to gain the group up
front)...
Happy Riding - and look after yourselves and your fluid intake in this
phenomenally hot weather some of us are experiencing.
Cheers,
Kerri-Ann Smith
(President)
ber...@bigpond.net.au
Cheers,
pj
--
Peter Jenkins
ph. 0407 149375
Ian Peak
I'm not sure about the rest of Sth Australia,
All details correct.
I'm glad I didn't get Matt Rawnsleys by mistake.
If the insurers though that I could do the PBP in just over 50 hours,
instead of my 88.15 in 1999, they may contest my none racing status
> Subject: [audax-oz] Re: Audax Rides and Travel Insurance
> From: presiden...@gmail.com
> To: auda...@googlegroups.com
Peter J Weiss
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4719 - Release Date: 01/02/12
Ian Peak
because of roadworks.
I would guess someone came in at 91.59.
This change was nit advised until the 2 nd to last brevet stop.
And then was written in French,
From: peter...@ozemail.com.au
To: auda...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [audax-oz] Re: Audax Rides and Travel Insurance
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 19:45:06 +1100
Gordon Macmillan
Made it (just; after some circulation near finish, signage
being souvenired) with some 1,253km recorded.
gm for Victorian road rules see
<http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubStatbook.nsf/b05145073fa2a882ca256da4001bc4e7/36E852AA5A0D62CACA25761E001F5FF1/$FILE/09-094sr.pdf>
Ian Peak wrote-
I think that the PBP organisers increased the cut off time to 92 hours
because of roadworks.
I would guess someone came in at 91.59.
This change was nit advised until the 2 nd to last brevet stop.
And then was written in French,
--
Ian Peak
From: ian...@hotmail.com
To: gm...@melbpc.org.au
Subject: 92 hours to do PBP in 1999
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 10:34:20 +1030
So an extra 2 hours to do an additional 53 km.
assuming that your computer was that accurate.
My records have you coming in at 90 h 49 m
Sue Taylor at 91
Phil Bellette at 91 h 03
Peter Matthews at 91 h 33
Though these times not adjusted I don't think for the later starting time,
eg 1030 pm. Calculated from 10 pm
> Subject: RE: [audax-oz] Re: Audax Rides and Travel Insurance
>
Peter Mathews
of extra distance to the total.
And I have my medal at home with 91h33 on it.
My sense of relief finishing that ride was overwhelming and I had to
sit quietly in a corner for quite some time.
Peter
Peter Mathews
Library Planning Executive
Office of the University Librarian
Monash University Library
MONASH UNIVERSITY VIC 3800
Ph : (03) 9905 2192
Bike : 043 999 2130
email : peter....@monash.edu