Israel has always dumped on America, its lifeline.
ivy_mike
against its protector: the attack on the USS Liberty,
which killed 34 American men serving their country.
Hear about it from the men who were there.
or go to http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-l/agtr5.htm
an excerpt:
"On the afternoon of 8 June 1967, while in international waters off
the Sinai Peninsula, Liberty, though clearly marked as a U.S. Navy
ship, was struck by Israeli aircraft. After suffering damage and many
personnel casualties from gunfire, rockets and bombs, she was further
attacked by three Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats. One torpedo hit
her on the starboard side, forward of the superstructure, opening a
large hole in her hull. In all, thirty-four men were killed in the
attacks and nearly 170 wounded. Israel subsequently apologized for the
incident, explaining that its air and naval forces had mistaken the
Liberty for a much smaller Egyptian Navy ship."
A little reading from the men who were on deck that day reduce
Israel's
explanation to the horseshit that it is. There's you wonderful Israel
that our President kisses up to. But I forgot, he's for freedom,
ending
terror, ad nauseam.
--
Regards, IM
little_people
> ivy_mike wrote...
> Perhaps its most egregious act of
> arrogant violence against its
> protector: the attack on the USS
> Liberty, which killed 34 American
> men serving their country.
An incident which has long-since been concluded to have been the result of
mistaken identity - by the governments of both countries involved. Here is
a link to the US Navy Court of Inquiry on the matter:
http://www.ussliberty.org/nci.txt
[...
FINDINGS OF FACT
1. Available evidence combines to indicate the attack on LIBERTY on 8 June
was in fact a case of mistaken identity.
[...]
6. There are no available indications that the attack was intended against
a U. S. Ship.
...]
The link also contains testimony from many sailors who were on board the
ship during the attack. It was upon their sworn statements that the US Navy
Court's findings were largely based.
> Hear about it from the men who were
> there.
A Web site run by a couple of professional Liberty survivors. It uses a great
deal of unsupported evidence and hearsay testimony in support of the position
that the attack was "deliberate".
> an excerpt:
> "On the afternoon of 8 June 1967,
> while in international waters off
> the Sinai Peninsula, Liberty, though
> clearly marked as a U.S. Navy
> ship, was struck by Israeli
> aircraft. After suffering damage and
> many personnel casualties from
> gunfire, rockets and bombs, she was
> further attacked by three Israeli
> Navy motor torpedo boats.
What this excerpt leaves out is the fact that the Israeli boats had initially
attempted to lamp-signal the USS Liberty prior to their torpedo attack. Unfortunately,
their signals were answered with a hail of fire from two of the ship's gun
mounts, and the Israeli boats commenced their attack on what they then believed
to be an Egyptian ship.
Immediately after the torpedo struck, the boats were observed milling off
the stern of the ship. A short time later, they lamp-signaled the Liberty's
crew with offers of assistance.
See the testimony of the ship's CO, William McGonagle, in the link above.
> One torpedo hit her on the starboard
> side, forward of the superstructure,
> opening a large hole in her hull.
And it was this torpedo strike which caused the majority of the ship's casualties.
> In all, thirty-four men were killed
> in the attacks and nearly 170
> wounded. Israel subsequently
> apologized for the incident,
> explaining that its air and naval
> forces had mistaken the Liberty for
> a much smaller Egyptian Navy ship."
Actually, that particular misidentification was made by the torpedo boat
commanders, who were then attempting to match the heavily-smoking ship's
configuration to that of a silhouette in a book.
> A little reading from the men who
> were on deck that day reduce Israel's
> explanation to the horseshit that it
> is.
As I indicated, one will have to wade through a lot of hearsay and unsupported
evidence in the process.
For a more objective treatise on the subject, I would suggest that one start
here:
http://www.thelibertyincident.com
The book featured therein pretty-much sets the benchmark, as far as in-depth
analysis goes.
[...]
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ivy_mike
post from ivy_mike) wrote:
>For a more objective treatise on the subject, I would suggest that one start
>here:
>http://www.thelibertyincident.com
You first saw this ivy_mike Liberty post last night, and it took you the
better part of a day to come up with THIS? You're becoming even more of
a silly milksop every day. The book by A. Jay Cristol? Whew!
No wonder you changed your handle for this one.
You've been officially tapped by ivy_mike. Get over it, and stop the
obsession. Here's what you do:
Stand, put on your orthopedic slippers, close your eyes, click the heels
together three times and chant, "there's life without ivy_mike, there's
life without ivy_mike, there's like without ivy_mike."
>The book featured therein pretty-much sets the benchmark, as far as in-depth
>analysis goes.
You should try comedy writing.
--
Regards, IM
FACE
obviously overtaking what tenuous grasp of the real world you might have had
since I never posted on this subject. Have you always been taken to making
things up in your little wet dream of life? Get over yourself.
I must admit that this particular display of your progressive mental illness
causes me a moment of pity for you. ....but just a moments worth.
little_people
> > ivy_mike wrote...
> > > little_people said...
> > > For a more objective treatise on
> > > the subject, I would suggest
> > > that one start here:
> > > http://www.thelibertyincident.com
> > You first saw this ivy_mike
> > Liberty post last night, and it
> > took you the better part of a day
> > to come up with THIS?
Naw... I saw it this morning and spent a quick minute or two tapping out
a response from off the top of my head whilst sipping a cup of coffee. Must've
touched a nerve too, because you obviously lost your mind right out of the
gate.
You do know, "ivy_mike", that to refer to yourself in the third person like
that is a *major* Usenet kooksign.
You do know that... don't you?
> > You're becoming even more of
> > a silly milksop every day. The
> > book by A. Jay Cristol? Whew!
> > No wonder you changed your handle
> > for this one.
No one changed their "handle". I came here because the USS Liberty is a pet
subject of mine, and, once every so often, I like to see what people are
saying about it... to see if there is anything newsworthy being posted, etc.
And while you do seem like an otherise literate poster, you strike me as
somewhat of dilettante on this subject - a hack, dabbler, whathaveyou. And
I wonder to what extent this is true with all of the other subjects on which
you post.
Anyway... partly to correct some of the misinformation you've been spreading,
and partly for my own self-amusement, I thought I'd stop in for a while and
jack you up a bit.
It didn't take very long.
> > You've been officially tapped by
> > ivy_mike. Get over it, and stop
> > the obsession. Here's what you do:
There's that kooksign again. You really ought to have that checked out, you
know.
In any event, your inability to address a word of what I said has been duly
noted.
ivy_mike
>What the fuck are you on about you stupid little man?
<rest of repetitive lament snipped>
You know, even before the apparently "real" little_people posted,
I did a little checking and was pretty sure it wasn't you, and was
a wee bit (very little actually) sorry for spanking you about it.
But you have to admit, from our exchanges of the last few days,
it was very easy for me to connect the dots and conclude it was you.
There was the obviously pro-Israel stance; the lameass use of the Cristol
book as a reliable source; the unusual timing; the fact that I've
never seen a post by anyone here called "little_people" combined with
the fact that it is very similar to "ivy_mike" with the use of "little,"
which is a word you use to pacify yourself in dealing with your obsession
with me, (you used it yet again above) so....it was quite understandable
for ivy_mike to conclude that it was you, yes?
But I was wrong and man enough to admit it. But I've told you about
toughening up. Hells bells, I've been accused of being many people, all
the way up to God. Did it bother me? Did I throw tantrums about it?
I hate to see a man on the verge of a nervous breakdown. That's for
women (and didn't they make a movie about it?).
--
Regards, IM
ivy_mike
>Naw... I saw it this morning and spent a quick minute or two tapping out
>a response from off the top of my head whilst sipping a cup of coffee. Must've
>touched a nerve too, because you obviously lost your mind right out of the
>gate.
Aw shucks, I'm just me. "Whilst" huh? A Cambridge man I assume? I
can really tell, really!
>You do know, "ivy_mike", that to refer to yourself in the third person like
>that is a *major* Usenet kooksign.
Well thanks, having the hobby of playing USENET lizard hopping from group
to group defending Israel on the Liberty incident (and using the Cristol
book as your star source) ain't too sane either. But shit, if you think
I'm a kook, don't read my posts. I don't care.
>No one changed their "handle".
Yeah, I'd never heard of you till now. It was uncanny timing (with that
name), yadda yadda (read my reply to WEEPY FACE).
>I came here because the USS Liberty is a pet
>subject of mine, and, once every so often, I like to see what people are
>saying about it... to see if there is anything newsworthy being posted, etc.
>And while you do seem like an otherise literate poster, you strike me as
>somewhat of dilettante on this subject - a hack, dabbler, whathaveyou.
And you're obviously an expert, I can tell, the Cristol book and all.
There ain't much to know, except that Israel attacked (repeatedly)
a clearly identified American ship.
> And
>I wonder to what extent this is true with all of the other subjects on which
>you post.
Uh-oh, another budding ivy_mike obsessor? You've obviously already started
reading my archived posts... Hope you have fun!
>Anyway... partly to correct some of the misinformation you've been spreading,
>and partly for my own self-amusement, I thought I'd stop in for a while and
>jack you up a bit.
Jack me up? People like you amuse me, which is why I keep reading USENET.
ivy_mike can listen to you, study you some; without having to actually smell
the breath.
>In any event, your inability to address a word of what I said has been duly
How do expect ivy_mike to take you seriously? You're entertainment, nothing
more.
--
Regards, IM
Glenn Snyder
You should give it up.
Post your picture, though.
That should be a hoot.
FACE
Do you think your half-ass, lame apology stands muster with me, little boy?
Your social workers down at the mental health center might accept that kind
of silly shit but i'm not your social worker and i don't.
I've been around long enough to see your kind before. You insult and you
think you do it with impunity but when called out, you start to crumble --
Just like you have.....little man.
>You know,
Obviously I know a lot more than you, you transparent little man.
Now you just go ahead and stamp your little feet and wave your little arms,
the fool's cap is firmly attached to your head.
The Sanity Inspector
ivy_...@my-deja.com (ivy_mike) wrote...:
>Perhaps its most egregious act of arrogant violence
>against its protector: the attack on the USS Liberty,
>which killed 34 American men serving their country.
>
>Hear about it from the men who were there.
>
>http://www.ussliberty.org/
>
>or go to http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-l/agtr5.htm
I learned an interesting bit of trivia recently. What do Iftach
Spector, the leader of the Israeli flight that attacked the Liberty,
and Ilan Ramon, who died in the Columbia disaster, have in common?
They both flew F-16s in the 1981 mission that destroyed Saddam's
nuclear reactor, the Osirak. Learned it from this book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767914007
--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
-- The Jam
little_people
> ivy_mike posted...
> > little_people wrote...
> > Naw... I saw it this morning and
> > spent a quick minute or two
> > tapping out a response from off
> > the top of my head whilst sipping
> > a cup of coffee. Must've touched a
> > nerve too, because you obviously
> > lost your mind right out of the
> > gate.
> Aw shucks, I'm just me. "Whilst"
> huh? A Cambridge man I assume? I
> can really tell, really!
Nope. Just your garden-variety American. I just like to say "whilst" every
now and then. It has a certain panache.
> > You do know, "ivy_mike", that
> > [you] refer to yourself in the
> > third person like that is a
> > *major* Usenet kooksign.
> Well thanks, having the hobby of
> playing USENET lizard hopping from
> group to group defending Israel on
> the Liberty incident (and using the
> Cristol book as your star source)
> ain't too sane either. But shit, if
> you think I'm a kook, don't read my
> posts. I don't care.
Oh yes you do. You're reading these very words this very second.
In any event, I don't really need to rely on Cristol in order to defend my
position. I can pretty-much make mincemeat out of anything you have to say
by simply quoting back the sworn testimony of the USS Liberty's crew.
> > No one changed their "handle".
> Yeah, I'd never heard of you till
> now. It was uncanny timing (with
> that name), yadda yadda (read my
> reply to WEEPY FACE).
Guess you should have thought of that before you posted your reply to "FACE",
lest you make a horse's ass out of yourself.
Oops.
> > I came here because the USS
> > Liberty is a pet subject of mine,
> > and, once every so often, I like
> > to see what people are saying
> > about it... to see if there is
> > anything newsworthy being posted,
> > etc.
> > And while you do seem like an
> > otherise literate poster, you
> > strike me as somewhat of
> > dilettante on this subject - a
> > hack, dabbler, whathaveyou.
> And you're obviously an expert, I
> can tell, the Cristol book and all.
No, I'm not an "expert". Just someone who has examined the facts a bit more
closely than you obviously have. And, as I indicated, I needn't rely on the
Cristol book. There's more than enough information to be found in a Google
search with which any rational person can connect the dots. Some of it can
be found on the very Web site that you yourself posted (e.g., the link I
posted that you snipped).
> There ain't much to know, except
> that Israel attacked (repeatedly)
> a clearly identified American ship.
By the same token, one can conclude that the United States deliberately destroyed
a "clearly identified" Iraqi passenger jet... that they deliberately bombarded
"clearly identified" Canadian soldiers on the ground.... all acts of friendly
fire in which US forces fired upon a "clearly identified" contingent of a
known ally.
The Devil is in the details. Israel itself strafed a column of its own "clearly
identified" troops just days before the Liberty incident. I suppose, by your
logic, that we must now conclude that they did this on purpose.
> > And I wonder to what extent this
> > is true with all of the other
> > subjects on which you post.
> Uh-oh, another budding ivy_mike
> obsessor? You've obviously already
> started reading my archived
> posts...
To no greater extent than you've been reading mine.
You did say that you did some checking up on me, did you not?
> Hope you have fun!
Same to you.
> > Anyway... partly to correct some
> > of the misinformation you've been
> > spreading, and partly for my own
> > self-amusement, I thought I'd stop
> > in for a while and jack you up a
> > bit.
> Jack me up?
Yes, jack you up. You've already made the rather silly blunder of assuming
I was someone else when a 30-second Google search (which I assume you've
since perfomed) would have corrected that assumption.
You're already starting to ignore the substance of what I've been posting,
choosing instead to obsess about my choice of referencing Cristol (about
which you've responded with little more than a virtual eye roll).
Jack you up.
You know, a bigger person might admit that they've got a bit more to learn
about this subject before spouting off about it. Either that or they'd make
a passing attempt to defend their position with something a little more substantive
than a few childish remarks.
Alas, you've chosen to do neither.
And this is plain for all to see.
ivy_mike
>
> I learned an interesting bit of trivia recently. What do Iftach
> Spector, the leader of the Israeli flight that attacked the Liberty,
> and Ilan Ramon, who died in the Columbia disaster, have in common?
> They both flew F-16s in the 1981 mission that destroyed Saddam's
> nuclear reactor, the Osirak.
Another bit of trivia: Ramon was partially atomized and deposited
near Palestine (TX).
--
Regards, IM