If Jesus wasn't for real, what led Stephen to believe

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?

Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?

Lord Jesus Christ By Larry W. Hurtado
http://books.google.com/books?id=vW49IW2F47UC&pg=PA618&lpg=PA618&dq=stephen+lord+jesus&source=bl&ots=Va3yOl0D_c&sig=uETYtqNXmgVOePr2jc00sTHMWhg&hl=en&ei=ohctStTRFqPYMIzo8dMJ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2

[Dead Kennedy]

On 8 June, 14:57, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?

what, you were there?

>
> Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
> Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.

philo called Plato "divine" (although it may have been aristotle, i
cant be arsed looking it up)

> Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?

why do some women think you aint ugly?
>
> Lord Jesus Christ By Larry W. Hurtadohttp://books.google.com/books?id=vW49IW2F47UC&pg=PA618&lpg=PA618&dq=s...

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 8, 10:22 am, Dead Kennedy <dead.kenne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 8 June, 14:57, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
>
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>
> what, you were there?

If you think it didn't happen, you could reply that perhaps an author
of Acts put the words into Stephen's mouth. That would, however, still
leave open the question of why the first person to call Jesus Lord
called him so, since it is recorded by Roman historians that Jesus was
called Lord (or worshipped as if a god).

If you think that the Stephen story is based on something that
happene, note that despite his Greek sounding name, Stephen was a Jew
according to Acts since only a Jew would have had a trial by
Sanhedrin. So, as per the NT, the first person claimed to have called
Jesus Lord was a Jew. Why would a Jew call Jesus Lord? Did any Jew
call Moses, Samuel, Elijah, Elisha or Hillel Lord?

> > Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
> > Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
>
> philo called Plato "divine" (although it may have been aristotle, i
> cant be arsed looking it up)

Divine (Theologoi in Greek) might have just meant godly and therefore
been a lesser title than Lord. Have you heard of a certain John being
called John the Divine?

> > Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> > just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?
>
> why do some women think you aint ugly?

They're blind:->

[Dogooder]

On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?

He is for real, Thomas even went further and said, "My Lord and my
God."

> Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
> Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
> Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?
>

> Lord Jesus Christ By Larry W. Hurtadohttp://books.google.com/books?id=vW49IW2F47UC&pg=PA618&lpg=PA618&dq=s...

[Eris]

Imaginary Stephen addressed his last words to imaginary Jesus.
I'm convinced.

[Medusa]

On Jun 8, 8:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?

All of this was just based on myths.

> Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
> Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
> Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?

None of this happened until Jesus, if he even existed, was dead.

All of the philosophers you have named had a following while they were
alive.

Medusa

>
> Lord Jesus Christ By Larry W. Hurtadohttp://books.google.com/books?id=vW49IW2F47UC&pg=PA618&lpg=PA618&dq=s...

[Dogooder]

On Jun 8, 8:39 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Imaginary Stephen addressed his last words to imaginary Jesus.
> I'm convinced.

Good.

[Dogooder]

On Jun 8, 8:42 am, Medusa <Medusa4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 8:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
>
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>
> All of this was just based on myths.
>
> > Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
> > Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
> > Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> > just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?
>
> None of this happened until Jesus, if he even existed, was dead.
>
> All of the philosophers you have named had a following while they were
> alive.

If the philosophers even existed. Others like Observer, Sebastian,
Tonysin said that the ancient texts or manuscripts that they were
written on are the same as Augustus, Herod, Cleopatra or even Jesus or
John the Baptist were written on, therefore they are myths.

[Skeptic]

On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?

Bahahahaha!

Now how about this.

If Abbé Faria, the fellow prisoner, hadn't been real, then how did
Edmond Dantès know where to look for the island of Monte Cristo with
its cache of treasure?

Huh? Huh?

Come on, just admit that both men really existed.

> Was he just a philosopher?

... or was he just a character of fiction?

> If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/ Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.

Lots of Englishmen have been called lord and even Lord.

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 8, 11:42 am, Medusa <Medusa4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 8:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>
> All of this was just based on myths.

Stephen is a myth in the sense that the author of Acts is not a
recognized historian. A number of decades later, however, Pliny Jr
noted people who worshipped Christ as if a god. Surely Pliny didn't
happen on the very first people to do this!! If not, there were people
before Pliny's who venerated Christ*. Why did they do so? (especially
if some of them were Jews who had a taboo against deification)
* and reading between the lines, identified Christ as Jesus rather
than someone else

> > Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
> > Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
> > Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> > just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?
>
> None of this happened until Jesus, if he even existed, was dead.

Even if so, why was he called Lord (by the first person to call him
Lord) after he was dead?

> All of the philosophers you have named had a following while they were
> alive.

How would a dead person get a following? Would people go for a walk in
a graveyard and pick out a name to follow from a tombstone?

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 8, 11:57 am, Skeptic <kkylh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>
> Bahahahaha!
>
> Now how about this.
>
> If Abbé Faria, the fellow prisoner, hadn't been real, then how did
> Edmond Dantès know where to look for the island of Monte Cristo with
> its cache of treasure?
>
> Huh? Huh?
>
> Come on, just admit that both men really existed.
>
> > Was he just a philosopher?
>
> ... or was he just a character of fiction?

Why would fiction writers make him a Galilean and then bend over
backwards to try to make him a Bethlehemite too? Wouldn't they instead
felicitously just make him a Bethlehemite?

> > If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/ Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
>
> Lots of Englishmen have been called lord and even Lord.

Were any dead English working class people (carpenters, plumbers,
cabbies, etc) called Lord?

[dali_70]

Why would they believe?

Because they were a bunch of superstitious, uneducated bronze age
people with no concept of the scientific method who liked to borrow
elements of other mythologies into their own.

[Dogooder]

The apostolic era is an age where educated and erudite people roam the
earth, such as the the likes of:

1. the physician Luke
2. Paul, “of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew
of the Hebrews,” and in religious respects “as touching the law, a
Pharisee” (Philippians 3:5). Only Acts identifies Paul as from Tarsus,
a city well-known for its intellectual accomplishments.
3. Businessman Peter

And accomplished writers like:
4. Josephus
5. Tacitus
6. Pliny the Younger
7. Suetonius

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

If they liked this so much, why didn't anyone weave such a mythology
around any other Jews? For example, why didn't anyone call Rabbi
Hillel Lord and die for it saying "Lord Hillel, receive my spirit"?

[Eris]

Josephus alleged writing about Jesus have been discredited by the
Vatican.

Josephus (AD 37 – c. 100)
Tacitus (ca. 56 – ca. 117)
Pliny the Younger (Born: 61 A.D. - Died: ca. 112 A.D.)
Suetonius (ca. 69/75 – after 130)

Which one was the eye witness we a looking for?

Josephus makes no mention of the City of Nazareth which was built in
the fourth century to accommodate the bible, even though he grew up
less than a mile from the present site of Nazareth.

[Chris]

On Jun 8, 2:25 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Josephus alleged writing about Jesus have been discredited by the
> Vatican.
>
> Josephus (AD 37 – c. 100)
> Tacitus (ca. 56 – ca. 117)
> Pliny the Younger (Born: 61 A.D. - Died: ca. 112 A.D.)
> Suetonius (ca. 69/75 – after 130)
>
> Which one was the eye witness we a looking for?
>
> Josephus makes no mention of the City of Nazareth which was built in
> the fourth century to accommodate the bible, even though he grew up
> less than a mile from the present site of Nazareth.

jurisdiction boundaries change all of the time. The NT even demeans
Nazarath as insignificant John 1:46 - And Nathanael said unto him, Can
there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come
and see.

[Chris]

a better word is probably municipal. I couldn't done thunk of it.

[Dogooder]

On Jun 8, 11:25 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Josephus alleged writing about Jesus have been discredited by the
> Vatican.

NOT, do you have any citation?

> Josephus (AD 37 – c. 100)
> Tacitus (ca. 56 – ca. 117)
> Pliny the Younger (Born: 61 A.D. - Died: ca. 112 A.D.)
> Suetonius (ca. 69/75 – after 130)
>
> Which one was the eye witness we a looking for?

Who said about eyewitnesses?

> Josephus makes no mention of the City of Nazareth which was built in
> the fourth century to accommodate the bible, even though he grew up
> less than a mile from the present site of Nazareth.

Nazareth was a little hamlet. Do you know where Turlock in the US is?

[dali_70]

On Jun 8, 1:58 pm, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>

> The apostolic era is an age where educated and erudite people roam the earth, such as the  the likes of:

As educated as a bronze age person could be. But considering most of
the great advancements in human understanding of the universe we
inhabit didn't happen for centuries, I'll stand by what I said.

[Eris]

There are Maps dating back to the time of the alleged savior.

[Eris]

Nazareth was a little hamlet. Do you know where Turlock in the US is?

Can't find it on any map of Israel dating to that time.
Mrs.
37°30′21″N 120°50′56″W
If memory serves me correctly.

Mrs. Caesar Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus could not
find it in the fourth century when she visited the holy land, and no
one had heard of it. So she had it constructed.

On Jun 8, 2:56 pm, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 11:25 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Josephus alleged writing about Jesus have been discredited by the
> > Vatican.
>
> NOT, do you have any citation?
>

http://roman-history.suite101.com/article.cfm

/pliny_tacitus_josephus_and_jesus

[Skeptic]

On Jun 8, 9:24 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > ... or was he just a character of fiction?
>
> Why would fiction writers make him a Galilean and then bend over
> backwards to try to make him a Bethlehemite too? Wouldn't they instead
> felicitously just make him a Bethlehemite?

Because for that they would have had to think. You don't have to bend
over backwards to introduce inconsistencies into a work. Rather, quite
the opposite. Creating credible, consistent characters is what takes
effort.

> > Lots of Englishmen have been called lord and even Lord.
>
> Were any dead English working class people (carpenters, plumbers,
> cabbies, etc) called Lord?

You have now cleraly finished grasping at logical straws, and now you
are grasping at microscopic cellulose fibres that splintered from
straw.

:)

But yes, you can find a bunch of Lords in the London telephone
directory, and some of them are bound to be working class. (One famous
Lord is Jon, ex keyboardist of Deep Purple.)

[Martin Musatov]

God is the foundation for logic, not the substitute for it. He does not command us to be irrational. Christians do themselves a disservice when they disavvow analytical thinking. I commend a moral atheist. He is a good man. I do not fault him for his position. I will however, based on the doctrine of Christ criticize my brothers and sisters in the faith who prefer not to think and to follow blindly. For the Lord, Jesus Christ, commanded us, "Worship the Lord, Your God, with all of your heart, and all of your soul, and all of your mind." Amen, to the thinking one, for he, like Job, is blessed. His prayer is heard and answered by God in heaven. Martin Musatov
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Skeptic <kkyl...@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:57:57
To: Atheism vs Christianity<Atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [AvC] Re: If Jesus wasn't for real, what led Stephen to believe

On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?

Bahahahaha!

Now how about this.

If Abbé Faria, the fellow prisoner, hadn't been real, then how did
Edmond Dantès know where to look for the island of Monte Cristo with
its cache of treasure?

Huh? Huh?

Come on, just admit that both men really existed.

> Was he just a philosopher?

.... or was he just a character of fiction?

[Eris]

On Jun 8, 2:56 pm, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 11:25 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Josephus alleged writing about Jesus have been discredited by the
> > Vatican.
>
> NOT, do you have any citation?
>

Actually I could not find a citation. But why would a man who is
Jewish, proclaim the divinity of Jesus, someone his religion does not
believe in. And if he did believe in Jesus, why so few sentences and
why did he not convert?

> > Josephus (AD 37 – c. 100)
> > Tacitus (ca. 56 – ca. 117)
> > Pliny the Younger (Born: 61 A.D. - Died: ca. 112 A.D.)
> > Suetonius (ca. 69/75 – after 130)
>
> > Which one was the eye witness we a looking for?
>
> Who said about eyewitnesses?
>

There is no credibility to non eye witnesses. Try testifying in court
about something someone told you.

With all of the miracles, it is unlikely that no one wrote about him.
Name something in the Bible that is backed up by independent accounts?
Perhaps the Jews living as slaves in Egypt?
No record of this in Egypt.

[Eris]

Where is the logic in "Do as I say or spend eternity burning in hell?"

I thought Christ looked down from the cross and told his followers
"Act stupid until I get back"?

With all of the strife in this world God must be a little behind in
his prayer answering?

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 8, 3:16 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are Maps dating back to the time of the alleged savior.

What towns/villages near Sepphoris do those maps show?

Read this from p. 100 or so onward

Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus
By Jonathan L. Reed
http://books.google.com/books?id=Xrav1ge-A_sC&printsec=frontcover

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 8, 3:28 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nazareth was a little hamlet. Do you know where Turlock in the US is?
> Can't find it on any map of Israel dating to that time.
> Mrs.
> 37°30′21″N 120°50′56″W
> If memory serves me correctly.
>
> Mrs. Caesar Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus could not
> find it in the fourth century when she visited the holy land, and no
> one had heard of it. So she had it constructed.

So, where did gospel writers get the name Nazareth from?

[etienne]

Imaginary creator coming from iron age middle-east mythology are not
the foundation of logic. Apparently it is more the foundation of inane
rantings.

[Stonethatbleeds]

Your logic is so poor that all your guesses are of a fool.
Lord means leader
Jesus was called RABI
teacher
Jesus was call master
leader
Jesus was called King of kinfgs again as leader

do you understand leader teacher?????
Jesus was a student of the word just like John the baptist and so
philosophy was the last thing he was part of! your logic is too low to
grasp the basics... you need full re-education

On Jun 8, 9:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>

> Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/

> Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.

> Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?
>

[Stonethatbleeds]

insanity proven... a quote in a story passed off as evidence and
proof...what a fool. You do not even know that the word God means
great leader and not creator..so dummy is what you are in not even
grasping the basics.


On Jun 8, 11:23 am, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

>
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>

> He is for real, Thomas even went further and said, "My Lord and my
> God."
>

[Stonethatbleeds]

even more stupid than the theist ones!

On Jun 8, 11:39 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Imaginary Stephen addressed his last words to imaginary Jesus.
> I'm convinced.
>

[Eris]

Apparently it was a group, like saying someone is a mason, or Mormon.

On Jun 8, 5:15 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

[Stonethatbleeds]

over 6 billion people have given their last words to Jesus... making
your point silly and low in I.Q.! A great majority so called
Christians do speak to Jesus in the last seconds of life. it is a very
common thing! To not think Christian speak to Jesus in life and into
death is a folly of ignorance. jesus is lord by example and not by
magic or by miracles but in wisdom still beyond most humans today and
compassion rivaled by very few on the whole planet at any given time.
To hate Jesus is to hate all that is good and all hope of compassion
even when your turn come to need it.

On Jun 8, 11:42 am, Medusa <Medusa4...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Jun 8, 8:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

>
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>

> All of this was just based on myths.
>

> > Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
> > Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
> > Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> > just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?
>

> None of this happened until Jesus, if he even existed, was dead.
>

> All of the philosophers you have named had a following while they were
> alive.
>

> Medusa

[Stonethatbleeds]

this whole planet can pretend all is Myth and it not stop the war that
comes or the human extinction that follows in the failure to keep the
air breathable and the seas alive... this war ends wars for you will
end yourselves.
Then we will call you myth of children of god turned to folls and then
self destructed themselves out of want of ignorance and vanity over
reality.
a shame example story to tell other worlds.


On Jun 8, 11:52 am, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jun 8, 8:42 am, Medusa <Medusa4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 8, 8:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
>
> > <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>
> > All of this was just based on myths.
>
> > > Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
> > > Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
> > > Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> > > just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?
>
> > None of this happened until Jesus, if he even existed, was dead.
>
> > All of the philosophers you have named had a following while they were
> > alive.
>

> If the philosophers even existed. Others like Observer, Sebastian,
> Tonysin said that the ancient texts or manuscripts that they were
> written on are the same as Augustus, Herod, Cleopatra or even Jesus or
> John the Baptist were written on, therefore they are myths.

[Stonethatbleeds]

I did not know you had to be part of a gang to have your recordings
passed as authentic. Takes a reall super dunce to claim on historical
text not worth the same as the ones next to it of the same time...you
need your brain fixed!


On Jun 8, 12:08 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

[etienne]

On 8 juin, 23:15, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 3:28 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Nazareth was a little hamlet. Do you know where Turlock in the US is?
> > Can't find it on any map of Israel dating to that time.
> > Mrs.
> > 37°30′21″N 120°50′56″W
> > If memory serves me correctly.
>
> > Mrs. Caesar Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus could not
> > find it in the fourth century when she visited the holy land, and no
> > one had heard of it. So she had it constructed.
>
> So, where did gospel writers get the name Nazareth from?
>

Last time I checked, mistranslation.

[Eris]

On Jun 8, 5:05 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

More Christian dogma. They hand this stuff out on street corners and
leave it in public restrooms.

Try this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazareth

[Stonethatbleeds]

in the exact time that recordings were made available to the general
public you fool think they started by telling lies and played
philosophy..they did not! UNLIKE you fools, they saw the worth of
keeping records and being truthful. Take John the baptist that was
part of a cult that if you made a spelling mistake you were cast out
to the desert to live or die as unfaithful to the EXACT teaching. He
must of made a mistake for we find him cast out into the desert
refusing to die and eating where so many other just died. To even
think such people would make up stories or any of the people of that
time... well is is a low IQ way to look backwards in time.




On Jun 8, 12:24 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 11:57 am, Skeptic <kkylh...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> > On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>

> > Bahahahaha!
>
> > Now how about this.
>
> > If Abbé Faria, the fellow prisoner, hadn't been real, then how did
> > Edmond Dantès know where to look for the island of Monte Cristo with
> > its cache of treasure?
>
> > Huh? Huh?
>
> > Come on, just admit that both men really existed.
>

> > > Was he just a philosopher?
>

> > ... or was he just a character of fiction?
>

> Why would fiction writers make him a Galilean and then bend over
> backwards to try to make him a Bethlehemite too? Wouldn't they instead
> felicitously just make him a Bethlehemite?
>

> > > If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/ Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
>

> > Lots of Englishmen have been called lord and even Lord.
>

[Stonethatbleeds]

dunce is all we can say about that post.

[Stonethatbleeds]

not his fault he is uneducated fool that did not look first but spoke.

On Jun 8, 1:58 pm, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jun 8, 10:45 am, dali_70 <w_e_coyot...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Why would they believe?
>
> > Because they were a bunch of superstitious, uneducated  bronze age
> > people with no concept of the scientific method who liked to borrow
> > elements of other mythologies into their own.
>

[Stonethatbleeds]

Because Jesus is CHRIST not lord or Rabi alone but far greater as all
time eternal "perfect example" and "perfect teacher" YOU can't even
bring yourself to be like him.
it is just your low ignorant self that is against the good and and
good to all example.



On Jun 8, 2:02 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Jun 8, 1:45 pm, dali_70 <w_e_coyot...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Why would they believe?
>
> > Because they were a bunch of superstitious, uneducated  bronze age
> > people with no concept of the scientific method who liked to borrow
> > elements of other mythologies into their own.
>

> If they liked this so much, why didn't anyone weave such a mythology
> around any other Jews? For example, why didn't anyone call Rabbi
> Hillel Lord and die for it saying "Lord Hillel, receive my spirit"?

[Stonethatbleeds]

since all the cities and locations of ther Bible are found as most
informative historical truth over 300 sites of the Bible are now found
to prove that you lie. If the site is mentioned it also existed just
as told and just as found and same as all the stories have truth found
and locations found and historical proof by volanic or other
construction. Haters of the truth call out all kinds of lies and 1/2
truth to claim Jesus was not there or real but the constant FACT the
locations are where told and found almost 100% of the time makes all
such follies of claims they were made after as lies.

On Jun 8, 2:25 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Josephus alleged writing about Jesus have been discredited by the
> Vatican.
>

> Josephus (AD 37 – c. 100)
> Tacitus (ca. 56 – ca. 117)
> Pliny the Younger (Born: 61 A.D. - Died: ca. 112 A.D.)
> Suetonius (ca. 69/75 – after 130)
>
> Which one was the eye witness we a looking for?
>

> Josephus makes no mention of the City of Nazareth which was built in
> the fourth century to accommodate the bible, even though he grew up
> less than a mile from the present site of Nazareth.
>

> On Jun 8, 1:58 pm, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> > On Jun 8, 10:45 am, dali_70 <w_e_coyot...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Why would they believe?
>
> > > Because they were a bunch of superstitious, uneducated  bronze age
> > > people with no concept of the scientific method who liked to borrow
> > > elements of other mythologies into their own.
>

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 8, 5:52 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Apparently it was a group, like saying someone is a mason, or Mormon.

The group called the Nazarim which might have given its name to a
later group called Nasrani? Then, how did the gospel writers get the
idea that it was the name of a village/ town? Is there a precedent for
such a mistake being made by an author (or a bunch of authors)? After
all, no author has made the mistake of saying Joseph Smith was born
in Mormon!

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 8, 5:46 pm, Stonethatbleeds <fb...@ncf.ca> wrote:
> Your logic is so poor that all your guesses are of a fool.
> Lord means leader
> Jesus was called RABI

Rabban.

> teacher
> Jesus was call master
> leader
> Jesus was called King of kinfgs again as leader

Who called him king of kings?

[Stonethatbleeds]

I just had to go look it up... i did not know it existed till you
mentioned it and I googled it. Thanks, I like finding new places.
Turlock Org. looks like a nice little place.

On Jun 8, 2:56 pm, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 11:25 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Josephus alleged writing about Jesus have been discredited by the
> > Vatican.
>
> NOT, do you have any citation?
>

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 8, 5:48 pm, Stonethatbleeds <fb...@ncf.ca> wrote:
> insanity proven... a quote in a story passed off as evidence and
> proof...what a fool. You do not even know that the word God means
> great leader and not creator..so dummy is what you are in not even
> grasping the basics.

I don't see "leader" in the Oxford English Dictionary's entry for god:

"god (gρd). Also 3-4 godd. [Com. Teut.: OE. god (masc. in sing.; pl.
godu, godo neut., godas masc.) corresponds to OFris., OS., Du. god
masc., OHG. got, cot (MHG. got, mod.Ger. gott) masc., ON. goð, guð
neut. and masc., pl. goð, guð neut. (later Icel. pl. guðir masc.; Sw.,
Da. gud), Goth. guÞ (masc. in sing.; pl. guÞa, guda neut.). The Goth.
and ON. words always follow the neuter declension, though when used in
the Christian sense they are syntactically masc. The OTeut. type is
therefore *guđom neut., the adoption of the masculine concord being
presumably due to the Christian use of the word. The neuter sb., in
its original heathen use, would answer rather to L. numen than to L.
deus. Another approximate equivalent of deus in OTeut. was *ansu-z
(Goth. in latinized pl. form anses, ON. ρss, OE. Ós- in personal
names, ésa genit. pl.); but this seems to have been applied only to
the higher deities of the native pantheon, never to foreign gods; and
it never came into Christian use.

The ulterior etymology is disputed. Apart from the unlikely
hypothesis of adoption from some foreign tongue, the OTeut. *gubom
implies as its pre-Teut. type either *ghudho-m or *ghutó-m. The former
does not appear to admit of explanation; but the latter would
represent the neut. of the passive pple. of a root *gheu-. There are
two Aryan roots of the required form (both *glheu, with palatal
aspirate): one meaning ‘to invoke’ (Skr. hū), the other ‘to pour, to
offer sacrifice’ (Skr. hu, Gr. χέειν, OE. yéotan YETE v.). Hence
*glhutó-m has been variously interpreted as ‘what is invoked’ (cf.
Skr. puru-hūta ‘much-invoked’, an epithet of Indra) and as ‘what is
worshipped by sacrifice’ (cf. Skr. hutá, which occurs in the sense
‘sacrificed to’ as well as in that of ‘offered in sacrifice’). Either
of these conjectures is fairly plausible, as they both yield a sense
practically coincident with the most obvious definition deducible from
the actual use of the word, ‘an object of worship’.

Some scholars, accepting the derivation from the root *glheu- to pour,
have supposed the etymological sense to be ‘molten image’ (= Gr.
χυγόν), but the assumed development of meaning seems very unlikely.

[Stonethatbleeds]

I put you in the land of the desert and in less than 10 months you
would be dead of your own ignorance in how to survive. So they knew a
massif amount of things you would think as nothings but are so
important they survived centuries on end and you would probaly be dead
by now if not for doctors to cure your infection that would of killed
you long ago... unlike the easy simple life of a god you have, they
had to be smaert wise and alert at all times! when you see the women
kept and watched you think she is slaved but in reality she is being
protected from all kinds of sickness or STD's so the whole family did
not die! Thingsa like living in closed up villages and only the old
ones meet to trade with you was to prevent sickness and introduction
of things like jokes or attacks on race or kind.. so the children not
learn such things and repeat the evil... all they did and teach has a
super wisdom behind it that YOU did not see or grasp in harsh
conditions you just don't have YOUR hothouse cared for in all ways and
mindset. wehen you look back and do not also see the ways and
understand them..it is YOU that is the dunce and they the wise and
intelligent to have done what they did and survived and even thrived!
If not for antibiotics most of you be dead right now! you simply do
not have the wisdom to cope with such things on your own and NEED
doctors and others with skills to heal or help you even give you
credit! They did not! it was survive or die all the time unlike all
you know of life as too easy and almost never suffer or even feel
hunger in your pampered life.
Oh, and dummy... go read up on what the "BRONZE AGE" is, and how you
are in the wrong age acting the dunce. Ask yourself something
basic...did the Romans have iron? yes! So, dummy it can't be the
bronze age... something little children do to know when ages are.

On Jun 8, 3:01 pm, dali_70 <w_e_coyot...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 1:58 pm, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The apostolic era is an age where educated and erudite people roam the  earth, such as the  the likes of:
>

> As educated as a bronze age person could be. But considering most of
> the great advancements in human understanding of the universe we
> inhabit didn't happen for centuries, I'll stand by what I said.

[Stonethatbleeds]

You do know the city was a TEMPORAY CITY for WORKERS? YOU do know
Jesus lived in a worker city made only to make things and then be left
behind as the workers follow the constructions of the day? Are you all
imbaciles or no one told you what KIND of city Jesus lived in and what
KIND of work his family did. To show up 400 years later and see not a
city is not only normal but local and exactly why them cities of
workers are abandoned to follow works... no one told you that 60 years
after Jesus the wood lack crisis peaked? Why would wood workers live
in a city for wood working if the wood is now in another country and
the work is not there but in the other countries where the wood
is!!!!!
Some people on this planet can even grasp the basics!!!

On Jun 8, 3:28 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nazareth was a little hamlet. Do you know where Turlock in the US is?

> Can't find it on any map of Israel dating to that time.
> Mrs.
> 37°30′21″N 120°50′56″W
> If memory serves me correctly.
>
> Mrs. Caesar Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus could not
> find it in the fourth century when she visited the holy land, and no
> one had heard of it. So she had it constructed.
>

> On Jun 8, 2:56 pm, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 8, 11:25 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Josephus alleged writing about Jesus have been discredited by the
> > > Vatican.
>
> > NOT, do you have any citation?
>

> http://roman-history.suite101.com/article.cfm
>
> /pliny_tacitus_josephus_and_jesus

>
> > > Josephus (AD 37 – c. 100)
> > > Tacitus (ca. 56 – ca. 117)
> > > Pliny the Younger (Born: 61 A.D. - Died: ca. 112 A.D.)
> > > Suetonius (ca. 69/75 – after 130)
>
> > > Which one was the eye witness we a looking for?
>
> > Who said about eyewitnesses?
>
> > > Josephus makes no mention of the City of Nazareth which was built in
> > > the fourth century to accommodate the bible, even though he grew up
> > > less than a mile from the present site of Nazareth.
>
> > Nazareth was a little hamlet. Do you know where Turlock in the US is?
>

> > > On Jun 8, 1:58 pm, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> > > > On Jun 8, 10:45 am, dali_70 <w_e_coyot...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Why would they believe?
>
> > > > > Because they were a bunch of superstitious, uneducated  bronze age
> > > > > people with no concept of the scientific method who liked to borrow
> > > > > elements of other mythologies into their own.
>

> > > > The apostolic era is an age where educated and erudite people roam the
> > > > earth, such as the  the likes of:
>

[Stonethatbleeds]

you do know a LORD is? You act like you do not have a clue!


On Jun 8, 3:46 pm, Skeptic <kkylh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 9:24 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

>
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > ... or was he just a character of fiction?
>
> > Why would fiction writers make him a Galilean and then bend over
> > backwards to try to make him a Bethlehemite too? Wouldn't they instead
> > felicitously just make him a Bethlehemite?
>

> Because for that they would have had to think. You don't have to bend
> over backwards to introduce inconsistencies into a work. Rather, quite
> the opposite. Creating credible, consistent characters is what takes
> effort.

>
> > > Lots of Englishmen have been called lord and even Lord.
>
> > Were any dead English working class people (carpenters, plumbers,
> > cabbies, etc) called Lord?
>

> You have now cleraly finished grasping at logical straws, and now you
> are grasping at microscopic cellulose fibres that splintered from
> straw.
>
> :)
>
> But yes, you can find a bunch of Lords in the London telephone
> directory, and some of them are bound to be working class. (One famous
> Lord is Jon, ex keyboardist of Deep Purple.)

[Stonethatbleeds]

what God in Heaven?
Do you know the word God used by IAM means leader of nations?
Do you know IAM never once claimed to be creator or omni anything?
Did you know IAM set a law that you brake to claim him as such because
HE never say so, and provides not 2 witnesses make it claims of the
lesser ones as just "hear say myth" and NOT truth! Iam was not creator
and was only the man sent from Atlantis to seed his people's traits
and his people's animals in new land BEFORE the land full of signs was
doomed completely. Yep IAM is just a man with ships also told to you
in the Bible and Ark ships and sailing ships and a full army and
colonists... only to find near humans living on the lands. The choice
to change the locals into us was simple as more and more the sea
itself was not trusted and higher and dryer lands wanted (when you
know your whole giant island is about to explode... you know it is a
very big explosion far beyond all the warnings now seen as far less
than giant as they were seen at first! They were trying to save a
whole race and all its domestic creatures and breeding experts.
Did you not learn that "IAM" he teaches about SEALS by examples over
and over given in the stories?
Did you know "IAM" died and his essence is the father of Jesus that
tried so hard to explain to your PAGANS by his example and by his
example only are real Christians marked as such as all that claim him
God and life after life are shed as fool!
If you can't understand the name of IAM given from the start as a
SPHERE, CIRCLE, FOCUS POINT youi can't grasp the teachings! if you
can't get the seals you can't get the stories! you can't understand
God/"IAM"! You wind up presenting yourself for change, and so, fool!
to bring glory to God/IAM is to do as he did and copy his ways to
build seals and closed in places for things to be themselves
completely free from the random and extremes of the outside. To be
born as individual and live as individual till placed with mate and be
that mates mate for life ether to breed or function and be non
breeders in service to GOD/IAM and not any others as you clearly all
are.
why are the seals in the stories presented to you to learn but you
never did learn them is a complete mystery to me... you are all the
blind like I was told you all would be, and are.
peter

On Jun 8, 3:50 pm, "Martin Musatov" <marty.musa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> God is the foundation for logic, not the substitute for it. He does not command us to be irrational. Christians do themselves a disservice when they disavvow analytical thinking. I commend a moral atheist. He is a good man. I do not fault him for his position. I will however, based on the doctrine of Christ criticize my brothers and sisters in the faith who prefer not to think and to follow blindly. For the Lord, Jesus Christ, commanded us, "Worship the Lord, Your God, with all of your heart, and all of your soul, and all of your mind." Amen, to the thinking one, for he, like Job, is blessed. His prayer is heard and answered by God in heaven. Martin Musatov
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skeptic <kkylh...@gmail.com>
>
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:57:57
> To: Atheism vs Christianity<Atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [AvC] Re: If Jesus wasn't for real, what led Stephen to believe
>

> On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>

> Bahahahaha!
>
> Now how about this.
>
> If Abbé Faria, the fellow prisoner, hadn't been real, then how did
> Edmond Dantès know where to look for the island of Monte Cristo with
> its cache of treasure?
>
> Huh? Huh?
>
> Come on, just admit that both men really existed.
>

> > Was he just a philosopher?
>

> .... or was he just a character of fiction?

>
> > If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/ Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
>

[Stonethatbleeds]

On Jun 8, 4:33 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 2:56 pm, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:> On Jun 8, 11:25 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Josephus alleged writing about Jesus have been discredited by the
> > > Vatican.
>
> > NOT, do you have any citation?
>

> Actually I could not find a citation. But why would a man who is
> Jewish, proclaim the divinity of Jesus, someone his religion does not
> believe in. And if he did believe in Jesus, why so few sentences and
> why did he not convert?

Wrong!!!
Jesus claim to be son of God is exactly the religion and the way of
the messiah that from that point on in time became absolutely
impossible to have! They had no choice but accept him as example and
rabi and in many the Christ example of God. The truth is Jesus was
teaching the truth and the religions of the day and politics did not
like the fact they would be changed and even made obsolete in the new
order he was teaching..same as me in this age and same as IAM in his
age... the problem is not us that understand but YOU that learn not
the teaching and build not the ways given. you make the world fail so
you can force domination over others...like a run away train with no
one wanting to control it. You all go together to your doom or repent
and prevent it by making the logical ordered seals that compose
perfect cities completely beyond all the crimes and follies of your
CANCER LIKE cities destroying the planet as if it was a primary duty.

> > > Josephus (AD 37 – c. 100)
> > > Tacitus (ca. 56 – ca. 117)
> > > Pliny the Younger (Born: 61 A.D. - Died: ca. 112 A.D.)
> > > Suetonius (ca. 69/75 – after 130)
>
> > > Which one was the eye witness we a looking for?
>
> > Who said about eyewitnesses?
>

> There is no credibility to non eye witnesses. Try testifying in court
> about something someone told you.
>
> With all of the miracles, it is unlikely that no one wrote about him.
> Name something in the Bible that is backed up by independent accounts?
> Perhaps the Jews living as slaves in Egypt?
> No record of this in Egypt.

[Stonethatbleeds]

The very concept of hell is not of the Bible.
Sheol is where all the dead wounded up except the mummified ones.
Sheol is where the dump is and burn day and night is what they do
there... the concept of burning in hell is a second century concept
from the real Sheol.
If you do not understand thousands of years of putting the dead by the
ditch and have someone come get the body and toss it into the fires
can have this kind of effect on people... well you have to learn what
the heck you would do with your dead? You pampered fools hve no clue
what to do with a pile of dead bodies! You would let them rot and get
sick and suffer all kinds of plagues and be dead by now as extinct
tribes too dumb to do the basics or learn the basics LIKE THEY DID!
When you make your world a place of fires and waste..you make it Sheol
or Hell.
There is no life after death but for the spirit in recordings. if the
recordings say you were bad person it is permanent. The unifided
correct perfect cities will set the standard and judge all individual
for ever.
the prophecies are passing under your blind eyes making you unable to
die and mocking the ones that claim life after life as PAGAN fools. On
both sides we mock you with perfection nether side is using.
No "seals" no logic in any of you!





On Jun 8, 4:45 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Where is the logic in "Do as I say or spend eternity burning in hell?"
>
> I thought Christ looked down from the cross and told his followers
> "Act stupid until I get back"?
>
> With all of the strife in this world God must be a little behind in
> his prayer answering?

[tonysin]

Short answer: some people will believe anything.

David Koresh and Jim Jones had many more disciples when they died than
did Jesus.

If someone else's belief counts as evidence to you, then you're in
trouble, because there have been thousands, at least, of different
entities that somebody, somewhere, called Lord. So how do you know
which, if any, of them are right?

On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>

> Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/

> Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.

[tonysin]

On Jun 8, 9:24 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 11:57 am, Skeptic <kkylh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>

> > On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>

> > Bahahahaha!
>
> > Now how about this.
>
> > If Abbé Faria, the fellow prisoner, hadn't been real, then how did
> > Edmond Dantès know where to look for the island of Monte Cristo with
> > its cache of treasure?
>
> > Huh? Huh?
>
> > Come on, just admit that both men really existed.
>

> > > Was he just a philosopher?
>

> > ... or was he just a character of fiction?
>

> Why would fiction writers make him a Galilean and then bend over
> backwards to try to make him a Bethlehemite too? Wouldn't they instead
> felicitously just make him a Bethlehemite?
>

> > > If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/ Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
>

> > Lots of Englishmen have been called lord and even Lord.
>

> Were any dead English working class people (carpenters, plumbers,
> cabbies, etc) called Lord?

Everybody calls deceased pro golfer Byron Nelson "Lord Byron."

[tonysin]

On Jun 8, 9:24 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Why would fiction writers make him a Galilean and then bend over
backwards to try to make him a Bethlehemite too? Wouldn't they instead
felicitously just make him a Bethlehemite?"

Good question, and it leads me to believe that the Jesus myth was
based on an actual person. But the problem is that in bending over
backwards to make him a Bethlehemite, they contradicted each other, as
well as every other historian of the time, not to mention common
sense. The fact that they are obviously willing to lie about mundane
details like the city of his birth makes it clear that they would be
willing to lie about alleged miracles.

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 8, 8:23 pm, tonysin <a2mg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Short answer: some people will believe anything.
>
> David Koresh and Jim Jones had many more disciples when they died than
> did Jesus.
>
> If someone else's belief counts as evidence to you, then you're in
> trouble, because there have been thousands, at least, of different
> entities that somebody, somewhere, called Lord.  So how do you know
> which, if any, of them are right?

There aren't thousands of such Jews.; Jesus is the only Jew claimed to
have been called Lord by another Jew (Stephen).

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 8, 7:21 pm, Stonethatbleeds <fb...@ncf.ca> wrote:
> The very concept of hell is not of the Bible.

What is Gahanna?
Jesus says "God can destroy both body and soul in Gahanna" - Matthew
10:28

[Eris]

On Jun 8, 9:38 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

I have been in Gahanna, it is a suburb of Columbus, Ohio. Maybe the
Mormons are right, Jesus reappear in the US

[Observer]

On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?

Observer
There exists no proof that the Jesus of the buy bull ever existed.
Furthermore ,who cares what caused people to believe in this poor goad
fraud as a savior?

>
> Was he just a philosopher?

If he was a philosopher he was inadequate to the task as he was if the
reports of the words attributed to him were his,eaten up by naivete at
best and stupidity at worst , again that is if he ever existed.

If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
> Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
> Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?

Observer
Who knows or cares?

The whole of the new testament is among the most completely stupid
stories ever foisted upon the defenseless, uneducated , and just plain
indolent people of the world.

Psychonomist

[Observer]

On Jun 8, 8:23 am, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
>
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>

> He is for real, Thomas even went further and said, "My Lord and my
> God."

Observer
Oh really and just what scientifically verifiable substantiating data
have you proving the existence of or any act of any god much less this
moronic version thereof?

Psychonomist
>
>
>
> > Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/

> > Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
> > Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> > just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?
>

[Observer]

On Jun 8, 12:50 pm, "Martin Musatov" <marty.musa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> God is the foundation for logic, not the substitute for it.

Observer
A god for which there existed scientifically verifiable substantiating
data proving ITS EXISTENCE OR ANY ACTION THEREOF might have have been
of some value if it ever instructed humankind in the art of critical
thought , logic and scientific method. However this fictive and
reportedly sadomasochistic monster worshiped by the morons of
christendumb is of no value what so ever.

He does not command us to be irrational.

Observer
How would that for which there exists no proof for either its
existence or interaction with humanity command anything?

The utter stupidity of the ignorant supertstitious filth contained in
the buy bull not withstanding.

Christians do themselves a disservice when they disavvow analytical
thinking.

So long as christianinty is synonymous with self isolation from any
meaningful education ,there can be no use of critical thought applied
to, a broad understanding of scientific data from a broad selection
of disciplines using a thorough understanding of scientific method as
they haven't any idea what that means.

I commend a moral atheist. He is a good man. I do not fault him for
his position. I will however, based on the doctrine of Christ
criticize my brothers and sisters in the faith who prefer not to think
and to follow blindly. For the Lord, Jesus Christ, commanded us,
"Worship the Lord, Your God, with all of your heart, and all of your
soul, and all of your mind." Amen, to the thinking one, for he, like
Job, is blessed. His prayer is heard and answered by God in heaven.

Observer
What utter nonsense.
Your Jesus is a god fraud concocted by the psychopath Paul who never
met him and to whom he attached plagiarized myths from an even more
ancient past.

Furthermore ,I am underwhelmed at the comments that were purported top
have been made by this poor itinerant, criminal preacher who was
allegedly executed for his crimes against the state. (that if he ever
existed which I seriously doubt) If indeed he did exist and if these
things purported to have been quotes from his talks then he was eaten
by naivete , just plain stupid or both.

Martin Musatov
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skeptic <kkylh...@gmail.com>
>
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:57:57
> To: Atheism vs Christianity<Atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [AvC] Re: If Jesus wasn't for real, what led Stephen to believe
>

> On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>

> Bahahahaha!
>
> Now how about this.
>
> If Abbé Faria, the fellow prisoner, hadn't been real, then how did
> Edmond Dantès know where to look for the island of Monte Cristo with
> its cache of treasure?
>
> Huh? Huh?
>
> Come on, just admit that both men really existed.
>

> > Was he just a philosopher?
>

> .... or was he just a character of fiction?

>
> > If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/ Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
>

[Observer]

On Jun 8, 5:44 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 8:23 pm, tonysin <a2mg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Short answer: some people will believe anything.
>
> > David Koresh and Jim Jones had many more disciples when they died than
> > did Jesus.
>
> > If someone else's belief counts as evidence to you, then you're in
> > trouble, because there have been thousands, at least, of different
> > entities that somebody, somewhere, called Lord.  So how do you know
> > which, if any, of them are right?
>
> There aren't thousands of such Jews.; Jesus is the only Jew claimed to
> have been called Lord by another Jew (Stephen).

Observer
So Like I said Who gives a fuck?

Psychonomist

[Dead Kennedy]

not really, the "teacher of rightiousness" was a jew who was supposed
to be the "lord" professised(sic) in the OT , so i would expect the
essenes refered to him as "lord".

On Jun 9, 1:44 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

> > > Lord Jesus Christ By Larry W. Hurtadohttp://books.google.com/books?id=vW49IW2F47UC&pg=PA618&lpg=PA618&dq=s...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 9, 6:55 am, Dead Kennedy <dead.kenne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> not really, the "teacher of rightiousness" was a jew who was supposed
> to be the "lord" professised(sic) in the OT , so i would expect the
> essenes refered to him as "lord".

Any grounds to suppose that essenes on their death beds said "Lord
Teacher of Righteousness, receive my spirit"?

> On Jun 9, 1:44 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 8, 8:23 pm, tonysin <a2mg...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > there have been thousands, at least, of different
> > > entities that somebody, somewhere, called Lord.  So how do you know
> > > which, if any, of them are right?
>

> > There aren't thousands of such Jews; Jesus is the only Jew claimed to

[Sketch System]

On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?

You're confusing literary studies with the study of evidence.

> Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
> Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
> Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?

If you want to be called Lord, this organization can help:
http://www.englishtitles.co.uk/

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 9, 11:07 am, Sketch System <sketch.sys...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 6:57 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
>
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Jesus wasn't for real or if he performed no miracles, etc., what
> > led Stephen to call Jesus Lord and address his last words to Jesus?
>
> You're confusing literary studies with the study of evidence.

Very well; construct a literary study of Stephen. When would you
suppose a literary figure created the character created the story of
the trial and execution of Stephen?

> > Was he just a philosopher? If philosophers were called Lord, Socrates/
> > Plato, Xeno, Philo, etc. would have been called Lord.
> > Was he just another Jew? No Greeks called other Jews Lord; if he was
> > just another Jew, why did some Greeks call him Lord?
>
> If you want to be called Lord, this organization can help:
> http://www.englishtitles.co.uk/

Would this organization be able to induce dying Englishmen to say
"Lord Ranjit, receive my spirit"?

[kenandkids]

probably

On Jun 9, 8:18 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

[Winslow]

And hell is in Michigan where it freezes over in winter.

[Winslow]

On Jun 8, 4:52 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Apparently it was a group, like saying someone is a mason, or Mormon.

Up to the time of Constantine, Nazareth remained exclusively a Jewish
town. St. Epiphaenius (Adv. Haereses, I, ii, haer., 19) relates that
in 339 Joseph, Count of Tiberias, told him that, by a special order of
the emperor, "he built churches to Christ in the towns of the Jews, in
which there were none, for the reason that neither Greeks, Samaritans,
nor Christians were allowed to settle there, viz., at Tiberias, at
Diocaesarea, or Sepphoris, at Nazareth, and at Capharnaum".

In 1910, the population grew to 7000, however, it's still a small
hamlet. Any writer, like Josephus cannot be writing all of his
neighboring hamlets, especially if it is just a tiny dot in any map,
even today. He wrote about John the Baptist and James, but not town
where they were born or lived. Why talk about Nazareth anyway, instead
of the birthplace, Bethlehem.

> On Jun 8, 5:15 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

>
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 8, 3:28 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> > > Nazareth was a little hamlet. Do you know where Turlock in the US is?

> > > Can't find it on any map of Israel dating to that time.
> > > Mrs.
> > > 37°30′21″N 120°50′56″W
> > > If memory serves me correctly.
>
> > > Mrs. Caesar Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus could not
> > > find it in the fourth century when she visited the holy land, and no
> > > one had heard of it. So she had it constructed.
>

> > So, where did gospel writers get the name Nazareth from?

>
> > > On Jun 8, 2:56 pm, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jun 8, 11:25 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Josephus alleged writing about Jesus have been discredited by the
> > > > > Vatican.
>
> > > > NOT, do you have any citation?
>

> > >http://roman-history.suite101.com/article.cfm
>
> > > /pliny_tacitus_josephus_and_jesus

>
> > > > > Josephus (AD 37 – c. 100)
> > > > > Tacitus (ca. 56 – ca. 117)
> > > > > Pliny the Younger (Born: 61 A.D. - Died: ca. 112 A.D.)
> > > > > Suetonius (ca. 69/75 – after 130)
>
> > > > > Which one was the eye witness we a looking for?
>
> > > > Who said about eyewitnesses?
>

[Eris]

Jesus of non existant town?

[Winslow]

On Jun 9, 2:32 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jesus of non existant town?

Nazareth is where Mary was when she heard the news that she will give
birth to Jesus, who was born in Bethlehem. The town of Nazaret, or
Nazareth, or Nazara or Nazirah existed and the NT mentioned it so many
times. Even the Gospel of Philip mentioned it.

> On Jun 9, 11:55 am, Winslow <johnwinslow...@gmail.comte:

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 9, 4:02 pm, Winslow <johnwinslow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 9, 2:32 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Jesus of non existant town?
>
> Nazareth is where Mary was when she heard the news that she will give
> birth to Jesus, who was born in Bethlehem. The town of Nazaret, or
> Nazareth, or Nazara or Nazirah existed and the NT mentioned it so many
> times. Even the Gospel of Philip mentioned it.

The theory being floated seems to be that Jesus was a Nazarene (some
kind of sect) and gospel authors mistakenly thought this meant he was
from a place called Nazareth. It is an intriguing theory. Do those who
claim that gospel authors invented the village have a theory as to how
gospel authors decided to call it Nazareth rather than something else
such as Nazara, Nazaris or Nazarpolis? Were there some standard
inflexion or suffixing rules that gospel authors could use to derive
the name Nazareth from Nazarene or whatever Jesus was called?

[Eris]

We are not looking for biblical sources, we are looking for sources to
back up the bible. You can google ancient maps of Israel and show us
where it is located on the maps prior to the fourth century when Mrs.
Constantine bitched, pissed. and moaned until Mr. Constantine built
it.

On Jun 9, 4:02 pm, Winslow <johnwinslow...@gmail.com> wrote:

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 9, 4:34 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are not looking for biblical sources, we are looking for sources to
> back up the bible. You can google ancient maps of Israel and show us
> where it is located on the maps prior to the fourth century when Mrs.
> Constantine bitched, pissed. and moaned until Mr. Constantine built
> it.

That would be Ma Constantine. Her name was Helena, later St. Helena.

[Winslow]

On Jun 9, 3:19 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

It is true that the Ebionites wanted to be called Nazarenes and not
Christians (Ephipanius in Panarion), but they believed in the Virgin
Birth, the Messiah, the son of God, who was born of the Virgin Miriam,
(Jerome; Letter 75 to Augustine)

However, the name of the place is Nazara which is Iesous Nazarenos in
Greek and became Nazareth in English or other languages. This is the
most common interpretation among Christians, which came from Matthew
2:23, which says, "And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth:
that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall
be called a Nazarene."

This is the traditional interpretation within mainstream Christianity,
and it still seems the obvious interpretation to many modern
Christians. Matthew 2:23 reads that "and he went and lived in a town
called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets:
"He will be called a Nazarene"" (NIV) (Greek is Ναζωραῖος/Nazoraios).

The Gospel of Philip, 47 says"The apostles that came before us called
him Jesus Nazarene the Christ ..."Nazara" is the "Truth". Therefore
'Nazarenos' is "The One of the Truth" ...

[Eris]

* Saint Epiphanius of Pavia (439–496)
* Saint Epiphanius of Salamis (ca 310–20 – 403), bishop of Salamis
in Cyprus, author of Panarion
* Epiphanius of Constantinople, (520–535), Patriarch of
Constantinople
* Epiphanius Scholasticus (6th century), assistant of Cassiodorus
who compiled the Historiae Ecclesiasticae Tripartitae Epitome, ca.
510.
* Epiphanius (Patriarch of Aquileia) (612-613)
* Epiphanius the Monk (8th century)

Yes these gentlemen would certainly have first hand eyewitness
knowledge of the city of Nazareth in the first century.

[Eris]

How come no ever heard of it when Mrs. Constantine tried to visit it?

On Jun 9, 4:02 pm, Winslow <johnwinslow...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Eris]

And blessed is she among women.

On Jun 9, 4:42 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

[Musatov]

Remove my name from his book.

Observer is a "demon". By the blood and grace of Jesus Christ I
command this demon to speak no more:
The Lord King Christ rule over him.

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 9, 5:34 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And blessed is she among women.

Why else the title of Saint? She found the place of Jesus' crucifixion
just by threatening to have her son burn Jews who wouldn't reveal to
her where it was. They revealed to her that they themselves didn't
know but that there was a scholarly old Jew named Judas who might
know. St. Helena had the old man Judas put into a pit and starved him
until he revealed that the martyr Stephen's Jewish father Zaccheus had
handed down the information that Jesus was crucified at a place now
under a certain temple to a Greek goddess.
The cross in tradition, history, and art, page 88
By William Wood Seymour
http://books.google.com/books?id=9noEAAAAYAAJ&printsec=titlepage

[Winslow]

On Jun 9, 4:32 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>     * Saint Epiphanius of Pavia (439–496)
>     * Saint Epiphanius of Salamis (ca 310–20 – 403), bishop of Salamis
> in Cyprus, author of Panarion
>     * Epiphanius of Constantinople, (520–535), Patriarch of
> Constantinople
>     * Epiphanius Scholasticus (6th century), assistant of Cassiodorus
> who compiled the Historiae Ecclesiasticae Tripartitae Epitome, ca.
> 510.
>     * Epiphanius (Patriarch of Aquileia) (612-613)
>     * Epiphanius the Monk (8th century)
>
> Yes these gentlemen would certainly have first hand eyewitness
> knowledge of the city of Nazareth in the first century.

He just wrote about Nazareth during his time. The first century writer
was Matthew.

[Winslow]

On Jun 9, 3:34 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are not looking for biblical sources, we are looking for sources to
> back up the bible. You can google ancient maps of Israel and show us
> where it is located on the maps prior to the fourth century when Mrs.
> Constantine bitched, pissed. and moaned until Mr. Constantine built
> it.

I found it! The map:

http://www.nazarethvillage.com/research/content/archaeological-survey

[Winslow]

On Jun 9, 4:32 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How come no ever heard of it when Mrs. Constantine tried to visit it?

Minervina nor Fausta didn't try to visit it.

[Answer_42]

On Jun 9, 4:56 pm, Winslow <johnwinslow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > Jesus of non existant town?
>
> > > Nazareth is where Mary was when she heard the news that she will give
> > > birth to Jesus, who was born in Bethlehem. The town of Nazaret, or
> > > Nazareth, or Nazara or Nazirah existed and the NT mentioned it so many
> > > times. Even the Gospel of Philip mentioned it.
>
> > The theory being floated seems to be that Jesus was a Nazarene (some
> > kind of sect) and gospel authors mistakenly thought this meant he was
> > from a place called Nazareth. It is an intriguing theory. Do those who
> > claim that gospel authors invented the village have a theory as to how
> > gospel authors decided to call it Nazareth rather than something else
> > such as Nazara, Nazaris or Nazarpolis? Were there some standard
> > inflexion or suffixing rules that gospel authors could use to derive
> > the name Nazareth from Nazarene or whatever Jesus was called?
>
> It is true that the Ebionites wanted to be called Nazarenes and not
> Christians (Ephipanius in Panarion), but they believed in the Virgin
> Birth, the Messiah, the son of God, who was born of the Virgin Miriam,
> (Jerome; Letter 75 to Augustine)
>
> However, the name of the place is Nazara  which is Iesous Nazarenos in
> Greek and became Nazareth in English or other languages. This is the
> most common interpretation among Christians, which came from Matthew
> 2:23, which says, "And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth:
> that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall
> be called a Nazarene."

Except that outside of the bible, no historical records, from the Jews
or he Romans, ever mentions the town of Nazareth before about 200
IIRC, also, all archaeological digs confirmed that at the time Jesus
allegedly lived, there was no town to speak of where Nazareth is
today, especially not one the size it is supposed to be according to
some of the Jesus biblical stories.

At best, it was a tiny village with a few dwellings, nothing like what
the bible suggests. One other reason that supports the fact that it
was no a town is that remains of a cemetery were found, and Jews then,
as most people today, would not have built a town on a cemetery, in
fact, they used to inter people a few miles outside of town, so
Nazareth was not a town, but a cemetery.
Then, it was not used anymore and people forgot it had been a
cemetery, so later they started building near the site.

All this seems to confirm the fact that later writers, not being aware
of the historical past of the town of Nazareth, being confused by the
Nazarene statement, thought that Jesus was from Nazareth, as Ranjit
mentioned.
______________________________________
People need to know why we, as the Jewish people, have a right to be
here. We need to tell people what we are doing here... My tourism
guidebook is the Bible.
-- Ariel Sharon

[Eris]

Yes it is on all of the maps AFTER Constantine built it.
I would like to see a FIRST century map with Nazareth on it.

Regards
Eris

[Winslow]

On Jun 9, 6:15 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes it is on all of the maps AFTER Constantine built it.
> I would like to see a FIRST century map with Nazareth on it.

That map was during Christ's time. Here is the ancient map of Israel
during the First Century:

http://www.bible-history.com/geography/ancient-israel/nazareth.html

[Medusa]

On Jun 8, 10:52 am, Dogooder <albertdogoo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If the philosophers even existed. Others like Observer, Sebastian,
> Tonysin said that the ancient texts or manuscripts that they were
> written on are the same as Augustus, Herod, Cleopatra or even Jesus or
> John the Baptist were written on, therefore they are myths.

All the philosophers mentioned are historical figures; accounts of
their lives exist outside their own writings.

Medusa

[Observer]

Observer
Oh the psychosis of believing in demons , how terrible it must be.

I renounce what ever it is that you think poor Jesus to have been.

I renounce the idiotic concept of the holey ghost.

I renounce the utter stupidity of the christian concept of your
hideous sadomasochistic god thing.

Furthermore I continue to speak such is the weakness of your hideous
superstition . It can have no affect of the actualities of this world
other than as impetus to the crazed acts of the victims thereof.

I wish you no harm , in fact I wish you well, but hate the insidious,
superstitious filth that has taken your mind and your humanity.

Psychonomist

[Answer_42]

On Jun 9, 7:41 pm, Winslow <johnwinslow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Yes it is on all of the maps AFTER Constantine built it.
> > I would like to see a FIRST century map with Nazareth on it.
>
> That map was during Christ's time. Here is the ancient map of Israel
> during the First Century:
>
> http://www.bible-history.com/geography/ancient-israel/nazareth.html

Still have reading comprehension problems, Liam?
It did not stop you from getting someone fired over an Internet
disagreement though...

Luckily, poker cards each have only two symbols to decipher...

Eris asked for a first century map, not a 20th century map of what
some Christian apologetic thought Palestine was like in the first
century.
__________________________________________________

[Medusa]

On Jun 8, 4:48 pm, Stonethatbleeds <fb...@ncf.ca> wrote:

> insanity proven...

Yes, yours is by the incoherent rants you write.

Medusa

[Medusa]

On Jun 8, 4:54 pm, Stonethatbleeds <fb...@ncf.ca> wrote:

> over 6 billion people have given their last words to Jesus... making
> your point silly and low in I.Q.!

No proof.

>A great majority so called
> Christians do speak to Jesus in the last seconds of life.

Ummm, how would you know? Are you a mindreader?

> it is a very
> common thing! To not think Christian speak to Jesus in life and into
> death is a folly of ignorance. jesus is lord by example and not by
> magic or by miracles but in wisdom still beyond most humans today and
> compassion rivaled by very few on the whole planet at any given time.
> To hate Jesus is to hate all that is good and all hope of compassion
> even when your turn come to need it.

I do not hate gods that I do not believe exist. Now _that_ would be
silly.

Medusa

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 9, 7:41 pm, Winslow <johnwinslow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 9, 6:15 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes it is on all of the maps AFTER Constantine built it.
> > I would like to see a FIRST century map with Nazareth on it.
>
> That map was during Christ's time.

What can you make of this?
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/nazareth.html

> Here is the ancient map of Israel
> during the First Century:

They've got the pronunciation all wrong. It's not nad-zar-et. It's ne-
tse-rate.
It's an odd looking map that doesn't show Sepphoris.

> http://www.bible-history.com/geography/ancient-israel/nazareth.html

Try this:
http://new.netours.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=138&Itemid=36

[Medusa]

On Jun 9, 4:44 pm, Musatov <marty.musa...@gmail.com> wrote:


> Remove my name from his book.
>
> Observer is a "demon". By the blood and grace of Jesus Christ I
> command this demon to speak no more:
> The Lord King Christ rule over him

Sorry, pal. Since you wrote here, you're here forever.

And Observer will speak whenever he wants. You have zero say here.

Medusa

[Eris]

If it is ancient why does it say in English Map of Israel in Jesus
time.
I want a hand drawn map dated back to the first century. Not a modern
map created by a Christian group.

[Dead Kennedy]

lack of evidence....

On Jun 9, 2:29 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 9, 6:55 am, Dead Kennedy <dead.kenne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > not really, the "teacher of rightiousness" was a jew who was supposed
> > to be the "lord" professised(sic) in the OT , so i would expect the
> > essenes refered to him as "lord".
>
> Any grounds to suppose that essenes on their death beds said "Lord
> Teacher of Righteousness, receive my spirit"?
>
>
>
> > On Jun 9, 1:44 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On Jun 8, 8:23 pm, tonysin <a2mg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > there have been thousands, at least, of different
> > > > entities that somebody, somewhere, called Lord.  So how do you know
> > > > which, if any, of them are right?
>
> > > There aren't thousands of such Jews; Jesus is the only Jew claimed to
> > > have been called Lord by another Jew (Stephen).- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Dead Kennedy]

fuck me, the ancients wrote in english!

bush was right, what a discovery!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. Suetonius- Hide quoted text -

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jun 9, 5:32 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How come no ever heard of it when Mrs. Constantine tried to visit it?

A scribe in Cesarea heard of it; this inscription found in Cesarea in
1962 was carved long before Ma Constantine's visit if the priests who
settled in Nazareth were ones who fled one of the destructions of
Jerusalem (in 70AD or 135AD).

The restored line reads: "The eighteenth priestly course [called]
Hapizzez, [resettled at] Nazareth."
http://www.geocities.com/b_d_muller/hjes1.html

[Dead Kennedy]

refs im getting are the hadrianic war 135 ad and then it was a purely
"priestly" settlement as the priests could not mix with gentiles in
the towns that existed.

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:yJy4U2a2jaoJ:www.jesusneverexisted.com/nazareth.html+%22The+eighteenth+priestly+course+%5Bcalled%5D&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

"the first mention of Nazareth in a non-Christian text. It names
Nazareth as one of the places in Galilee where the priestly families
of Judea migrated after the disastrous Hadrianic war of 135 AD. Such
groups would only settle in towns without gentile inhabitants, which
ruled out nearby Sepphoris."


On 10 June, 14:14, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"