What would a Christian "Lord's prayer" look like?

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

Smoley wrote:
> 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
> 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
>
> We do not go through Mary, the Pope, or the Priest to get to God, but
> we go through Jesus Christ alone.
>
> You did one good thing by realizing the hypocrisy of Catholicism and
> leaving it.

Egad; Smoley has shown that Jesus taught a heretic Lord's prayer! The
Lord's prayer in the Bible does not fit Smoley's description of what
Christians do. It does not mention or go through a mediator, it does
not mention Christ or Jesus and it does not mention a ransom. Most
significantly, it does not go through Jesus Christ alone; it goes
directly to "Our father". So, what would a Christian Lord's prayer
look like?

[e_space]

has no interest in the 'lords' prayer, dont put weight in the first
version, or have any desire to read any follow-up versions. other than
that, interesting thread ;-)

fundamental xtians do have to digest to some pretty bizarre claims and
admonitions, especially those who 100% buy the literal interpretation
of the bible, [which really isnt because of multiple translations].
they must consume misconceptions from the very first verses. such
as ... the entire creation of the universe took 6 days, followed by 1
day of R&R ... to the minute! To believe this claim literally surely
takes a strong digestive system, plus 20/20 vision - minus the
numbers! dont get it ;-(

religion only claims a relationship with 'god', somehow always a male
figure. that in itself is bizarre enough and yes, they have squatters
rights, but that means absolutely nothing. i think there are two
problems with the 'god' concept. first of all, it has never been
described, and it seems that everyone has their own definition, except
those that follow the teachings of others verbatim. secondly, i feel
that few ever recognize, or do a meet and greet with their inherent
'spirit', a part of 'god', imc.

however, my concept that everyone has 'spirit' could be totally wrong,
but why would some have this and others not? i think it may be just
too far buried in the frenzy of modern life. no time for
introspecting, chilling out with no stimuli, and generally just
stewing in yourself. very few that i know have ever even considered
trying to communicate with their spirit, and this is my biggest
disappointment with humanity, and why i long to be permanently in
spirit form.

i realize some may consider this a slur against humanity, but really
it isnt. the experiences that have i enjoyed are far superior to
anything i could attain in a physically contained conscious state. i
dont hate being human, in fact a lot of it is quite enjoyable, yet
pales in comparison to the experience of 'spirit energy'.

someone mentioned suicide ... yeah, i considered it many times, but
never in a negative way. when one has tasted nectar, they want it all
the time, to drown in it. when i first considered this, i thought that
if i nuked myself i would go 'there'. that was over 30 yrs ago. i
actually intentionally stopped the OBE's from happening, because 1) i
was convinced of the existence of my 'spirit', and 2) i was starting
to feel like a freakin alien! alas, i still do ...

On Dec 13, 9:45 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

[Neil Kelsey]

On Dec 14, 5:42 am, e_space <espace1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> has no interest in the 'lords' prayer, dont put weight in the first
> version, or have any desire to read any follow-up versions. other than
> that, interesting thread   ;-)
>
> fundamental xtians do have to digest to some pretty bizarre claims and
> admonitions,

You don't think that believing that if you "polish your spirit energy"
that it will be attracted to the Earth's core where you can live free
of humanity and in a state of happiness isn't a bizarre claim?

> especially those who 100% buy the literal interpretation
> of the bible, [which really isnt because of multiple translations].
> they must consume misconceptions from the very first verses. such
> as ... the entire creation of the universe took 6 days, followed by 1
> day of R&R ... to the minute! To believe this claim literally surely
> takes a strong digestive system, plus 20/20 vision - minus the
> numbers! dont get it  ;-(

Yes, your beliefs are so...superior.

> religion only claims a relationship with 'god', somehow always a male
> figure.

Not always. There are other religions besides the Abrahamic ones.

> that in itself is bizarre enough and yes, they have squatters
> rights, but that means absolutely nothing. i think there are two
> problems with the 'god' concept. first of all, it has never been
> described,

Except, it has.

> and it seems that everyone has their own definition, except
> those that follow the teachings of others verbatim. secondly, i feel
> that few ever recognize, or do a meet and greet with their inherent
> 'spirit', a part of 'god', imc.

Of course you are one of those "few," and we have a lot of nerve to
ask you for evidence. Don't we know who you think you are?!?

> however, my concept that everyone has 'spirit' could be totally wrong,

Yes, that would be the people who don't believe you, like me. We are
"spiritually void," right?

> but why would some have this and others not?

You haven't shown that anyone has it.

> i think it may be just
> too far buried in the frenzy of modern life. no time for
> introspecting, chilling out with no stimuli, and generally just
> stewing in yourself.

Or it could be because people like you are super duper special and you
have super duper powers.

> very few that i know have ever even considered
> trying to communicate with their spirit,

Why would they when you can't show it exists?

> and this is my biggest
> disappointment with humanity, and why i long to be permanently in
> spirit form.

That's very revealing in a Freudian sort of way.

> i realize some may consider this a slur against humanity,

I consider it a sign of your unhappiness and alienation, which your
pathological narcissism prevents you from seeing. Of course you're
going to dress these emotions up as your superior state being sullied
by riff raff.

> but really
> it isnt.

Pathological narcissism occurs in a spectrum of severity. In its more
extreme forms, it is narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). NPD is
considered to result from a person's belief that they are flawed in a
way that makes them fundamentally unacceptable to others. This belief
is held below the person's conscious awareness; such a person would
typically deny thinking such a thing, if questioned. In order to
protect themselves against the intolerably painful rejection and
isolation that (they imagine) would follow if others recognized their
supposedly defective nature, such people make strong attempts to
control others’ view of them and behavior towards them.

Notice the last sentence. Here you are 'making a strong attempt to
control others view of you' by trying to make it seem like your misery
at not being adulated for being the spirit guide that you think you
are doesn't bother you.

> the experiences that have i enjoyed are far superior to
> anything i could attain in a physically contained conscious state.
> i dont hate being human, in fact a lot of it is quite enjoyable, yet
> pales in comparison to the experience of 'spirit energy'.

Since you can't provide valid evidence of "spirit" and "spirit
energy," these claims are better explained as the inner natterings of
a pathological narcissist whose dreams of ever being a "spirit guide"
are crashing down to earth.

> someone mentioned suicide ... yeah, i considered it many times, but
> never in a negative way.

You have Jim Jones written all over you if you could ever attract a
following.

> when one has tasted nectar, they want it all
> the time, to drown in it. when i first considered this, i thought that
> if i nuked myself i would go 'there'. that was over 30 yrs ago.

And from another viewpoint, suicide would just be a way of pouting
because people aren't buying what you're selling. I think you need
therapy, and have undoubtedly needed it for a long time. I also know
that narcissists don't think they need therapy, and that treatments
aren't very effective. Feel kinda sorry for you, but as long as you're
trying to inflict your insanity on others I am going to point out that
it's insane. The group comes first. I think that if you did attract a
following like you are trying to do, even if you don't admit it, that
it would have the potential to be a suicide cult. On the other hand,
it is fascinating to get a glmpse into the psychology behind how those
cults get started. The one thing you're missing is the charisma to
attract followers. Otherwise...

> i actually intentionally stopped the OBE's from happening, because 1) i
> was convinced of the existence of my 'spirit', and 2) i was starting
> to feel like a freakin alien! alas, i still do ...

If you feel like an alien it's because you spend your time alienating
others - it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't get it. If you enjoyed the alleged OBE's, and you "felt like
an alien" with them or without them, why don't you go back to having
OBE's? What difference does it make? At least you'd be doing something
you enjoyed. Or do you not pursue OBE's because you would you rather
blame your unhappiness on others ("I can't have an OBE because other
people make me feel like a freak")? Are you just looking for
scapegoats?

> On Dec 13, 9:45 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
>
>
>
> <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Smoley wrote:
> > > 1 Timothy 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
> > > 6  Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
>
> > > We do not go through Mary, the Pope, or the Priest to get to God, but
> > > we go through Jesus Christ alone.
>
> > > You did one good thing by realizing the hypocrisy of Catholicism and
> > > leaving it.
>
> > Egad; Smoley has shown that Jesus taught a heretic Lord's prayer! The
> > Lord's prayer in the Bible does not fit Smoley's description of what
> > Christians do. It does not mention or go through a mediator, it does
> > not mention Christ or Jesus and it does not mention a ransom. Most
> > significantly, it does not go through Jesus Christ alone; it goes
> > directly to "Our father". So, what would a Christian Lord's prayer

> > look like?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[e_space]

earths core???? holy toledo neil, wake the hell up!!! you are soooo
far off, your not even on the right planet! yeah, im just DYING to get
my ass burnt off! why i continue responding to your bunk is starting
to cause me some concern. better change my ways before your flailings
start to become a part of my reality! ;-)

the rest of your post is just more of your hateful drivel but ask
yourself this, how could you EVER come close to thinking that i put
ANY thought, consideration, or weight to your opinion of me??? for a
guy who claims to think reasonably, you keep throwing massive wrenches
into any chance that i will see it that way.

btw, i dont think everybody who doesnt agree with me is spiritually
void. unfortunately, you definately do lead the pack of those who i
feel have a miniscual chance of finding it.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Neil Kelsey]

On Dec 14, 7:27 am, e_space <espace1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> earths core????  holy toledo neil, wake the hell up!!! you are soooo
> far off, your not even on the right planet! yeah, im just DYING to get
> my ass burnt off!

And now you're going to lie about your beliefs.

> why i continue responding to your bunk is starting
> to cause me some concern. better change my ways before your flailings
> start to become a part of my reality!   ;-)
>
> the rest of your post is just more of your hateful drivel but ask
> yourself this, how could you EVER come close to thinking that i put
> ANY thought, consideration, or weight to your opinion of me???

Because you keep saying things like that. Ever heard Shakespeare's
quote "methinks the lady doth protest too much"? Do you have any idea
what it means?

> for a
> guy who claims to think reasonably, you keep throwing massive wrenches
> into any chance that i will see it that way.

I have faint hope that you wil ever agree with me. That's not the
point. The point, as I keep saying, is to oppose you. I feel a moral
obligation to speak up when the insane try to inflict their insanity
on others.

> btw, i dont think everybody who doesnt agree with me is spiritually
> void.

I know. Those would be the people who hypothetically would buy into
the cult of you. How's that working out for you? Got plans to make
them drink any Kool-Aid?

> unfortunately, you definately do lead the pack of those who i
> feel have a miniscual chance of finding it.

Woe is met. Somehow I'll try to struggle on...

[e_space]

lol

[Neil Kelsey]

On Dec 14, 8:34 am, e_space <espace1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> lol

Yep. Suicide is so funny.

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[Brock]

On Dec 13, 9:45 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> So, what would a Christian Lord's prayer
> look like?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

Of course, interesting information on the topic of the Lord's prayer
is available at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_prayer#Analysis

Regards,

Brock

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

More interesting information:

It's true that the Lord's Prayer fits equally across all the Abrahamic
traditions. It is similar in many ways to prayers that were popular
among pious Jews in Roman times, including the kaddish prayer, and
reflects traditional Jewish values.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/848875/jewish/Is-the-Lords-Prayer-Non-denominational.htm
Rabbi Tzvi Freeman

The prayer is a beautiful combination or selection of formulas of
prayer in circulation among the Hasidæan circles; and there is nothing
in it expressive of the Christian belief that the Messiah had arrived
in the person of Jesus. On the contrary, the first and principal part
is a prayer for the coming of the kingdom of God, exactly as is the
Ḳaddish, with which it must be compared in order to be thoroughly
understood.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=547&letter=L

The Kaddish:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=7&letter=K

> Regards,
> Brock

Our Farnham, who art in Hendon,
Holloway, Turnpike Lane
Thy Kingston come; thy Wimbledon,
On Erith as it is in Hendon.
Give us this day our Maidenhead.
And lead us not into Penge station
But deliver us from Esher.
For Thine is the Kingston, the Tower and the Horley
For Iver and Iver
Crouch End.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_Driver%27s_Prayer

[Brock Organ]

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 2:16 PM, ranjit_...@yahoo.com
<ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>    Our Farnham, who art in Hendon,
>    Holloway, Turnpike Lane
>    Thy Kingston come; thy Wimbledon,
>    On Erith as it is in Hendon.
>    Give us this day our Maidenhead.
>    And lead us not into Penge station
>    But deliver us from Esher.
>    For Thine is the Kingston, the Tower and the Horley
>    For Iver and Iver
>    Crouch End.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_Driver%27s_Prayer

I'll stick with the Lord's prayer instead.

Regards,

Brock

[e_space]

lol

[Neil Kelsey]

On Dec 14, 5:14 pm, e_space <espace1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> lol

Idiot.