I've been working on hosting Apple II games on my site using the Apple
II Go applet (the only java applet for Apple Emulation that I've
found), however the color mode is giving me a headache. Here's the
problem:
When the applet is launched in Green mode (displayColorMode = 0) all
the graphic edges are crisp and clean, but in color mode
(displayColorMode=1), the colors bleed and look kinda sloppy. I
downloaded the source and saw a color bleeding algorithm
(hiresLookupColor) in AppleDisplay.java. I tried to disable the
bleeding, but only threw exceptions.
My question is this, Is there any way to display the colors mode
without the bleeding? It looks like the bleeding is supposed to
emulate a NTSC television, but I would like to have nice crisp color
without the bleed.
Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Thanks,
Chris
The color bleeding was actually there on real Apple II's connected to
an NTSC monitor. So be assured that other emulators are not emulating
the Apple II correctly.
But I'd also like to tell you that the NTSC emulation on AppleIIGo is
very basic (this was done so AppleIIGo works on mobile phones), and it
*can* be improved. Unfortunately developing an accurate NTSC emulation
requires knowledge of advanced signal processing, and I have other
priorities at the time being. So if you know someone who does have
this knowledge and is willing to help, please tell him so he can join
the project!
> I've been working on hosting Apple II games on my site using the Apple
> II Go applet (the only java applet for Apple Emulation that I've
> found), however the color mode is giving me a headache. Here's the
> problem:
> When the applet is launched in Green mode (displayColorMode = 0) all
> the graphic edges are crisp and clean, but in color mode
> (displayColorMode=1), the colors bleed and look kinda sloppy. I
> downloaded the source and saw a color bleeding algorithm
> (hiresLookupColor) in AppleDisplay.java. I tried to disable the
> bleeding, but only threw exceptions.
> My question is this, Is there any way to display the colors mode
> without the bleeding? It looks like the bleeding is supposed to
> emulate a NTSC television, but I would like to have nice crisp color
> without the bleed.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated,
> Thanks,
> Chris
Thanks for the speedy reply. I wonder how the AppleWin guys made
their screen so non-bleedy? Too bad their application is not an
applet. I guess I'll live with the bleeding.
Cheers,
Chris
On Jan 27, 3:47 pm, "Marc S. Reßl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The color bleeding was actually there on real Apple II's connected to
> an NTSC monitor. So be assured that other emulators are not emulating
> the Apple II correctly.
> But I'd also like to tell you that the NTSC emulation on AppleIIGo is
> very basic (this was done so AppleIIGo works on mobile phones), and it
> *can* be improved. Unfortunately developing an accurate NTSC emulation
> requires knowledge of advanced signal processing, and I have other
> priorities at the time being. So if you know someone who does have
> this knowledge and is willing to help, please tell him so he can join
> the project!
> Best wishes,
> Marc.-
> El 27/01/2009, a las 20:18, chris escribió:
> > I've been working on hosting Apple II games on my site using the Apple
> > II Go applet (the only java applet for Apple Emulation that I've
> > found), however the color mode is giving me a headache. Here's the
> > problem:
> > When the applet is launched in Green mode (displayColorMode = 0) all
> > the graphic edges are crisp and clean, but in color mode
> > (displayColorMode=1), the colors bleed and look kinda sloppy. I
> > downloaded the source and saw a color bleeding algorithm
> > (hiresLookupColor) in AppleDisplay.java. I tried to disable the
> > bleeding, but only threw exceptions.
> > My question is this, Is there any way to display the colors mode
> > without the bleeding? It looks like the bleeding is supposed to
> > emulate a NTSC television, but I would like to have nice crisp color
> > without the bleed.
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated,
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
> The color bleeding was actually there on real Apple II's connected to
> an NTSC monitor. So be assured that other emulators are not emulating
> the Apple II correctly.
> But I'd also like to tell you that the NTSC emulation on AppleIIGo is
> very basic (this was done so AppleIIGo works on mobile phones), and it
> *can* be improved. Unfortunately developing an accurate NTSC emulation
> requires knowledge of advanced signal processing, and I have other
> priorities at the time being. So if you know someone who does have
> this knowledge and is willing to help, please tell him so he can join
> the project!
> Best wishes,
> Marc.-
> El 27/01/2009, a las 20:18, chris escribió:
> > I've been working on hosting Apple II games on my site using the Apple
> > II Go applet (the only java applet for Apple Emulation that I've
> > found), however the color mode is giving me a headache. Here's the
> > problem:
> > When the applet is launched in Green mode (displayColorMode = 0) all
> > the graphic edges are crisp and clean, but in color mode
> > (displayColorMode=1), the colors bleed and look kinda sloppy. I
> > downloaded the source and saw a color bleeding algorithm
> > (hiresLookupColor) in AppleDisplay.java. I tried to disable the
> > bleeding, but only threw exceptions.
> > My question is this, Is there any way to display the colors mode
> > without the bleeding? It looks like the bleeding is supposed to
> > emulate a NTSC television, but I would like to have nice crisp color
> > without the bleed.
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated,
> > Thanks,
> > Chris- Hide quoted text -
> MESS's version of the emulator seems to have the same "problem".
> Jon
> On Jan 27, 4:47 pm, "Marc S. Reßl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Chris,
>> The color bleeding was actually there on real Apple II's connected to
>> an NTSC monitor. So be assured that other emulators are not emulating
>> the Apple II correctly.
>> But I'd also like to tell you that the NTSC emulation on AppleIIGo is
>> very basic (this was done so AppleIIGo works on mobile phones), and
>> it
>> *can* be improved. Unfortunately developing an accurate NTSC
>> emulation
>> requires knowledge of advanced signal processing, and I have other
>> priorities at the time being. So if you know someone who does have
>> this knowledge and is willing to help, please tell him so he can join
>> the project!
>> Best wishes,
>> Marc.-
>> El 27/01/2009, a las 20:18, chris escribió:
>>> I've been working on hosting Apple II games on my site using the
>>> Apple
>>> II Go applet (the only java applet for Apple Emulation that I've
>>> found), however the color mode is giving me a headache. Here's the
>>> problem:
>>> When the applet is launched in Green mode (displayColorMode = 0) all
>>> the graphic edges are crisp and clean, but in color mode
>>> (displayColorMode=1), the colors bleed and look kinda sloppy. I
>>> downloaded the source and saw a color bleeding algorithm
>>> (hiresLookupColor) in AppleDisplay.java. I tried to disable the
>>> bleeding, but only threw exceptions.
>>> My question is this, Is there any way to display the colors mode
>>> without the bleeding? It looks like the bleeding is supposed to
>>> emulate a NTSC television, but I would like to have nice crisp color
>>> without the bleed.
>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated,
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris- Hide quoted text -
> I invite you to get an original Apple II or Apple IIe computer, hook
> it up to a NTSC monitor, and see for yourself!
> Best wishes!
> Marc.-
> El 28/01/2009, a las 13:00, Jon escribió:
>> MESS's version of the emulator seems to have the same "problem".
>> Jon
>> On Jan 27, 4:47 pm, "Marc S. Reßl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> The color bleeding was actually there on real Apple II's
>>> connected to
>>> an NTSC monitor. So be assured that other emulators are not
>>> emulating
>>> the Apple II correctly.
>>> But I'd also like to tell you that the NTSC emulation on
>>> AppleIIGo is
>>> very basic (this was done so AppleIIGo works on mobile phones), and
>>> it
>>> *can* be improved. Unfortunately developing an accurate NTSC
>>> emulation
>>> requires knowledge of advanced signal processing, and I have other
>>> priorities at the time being. So if you know someone who does have
>>> this knowledge and is willing to help, please tell him so he can
>>> join
>>> the project!
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Marc.-
>>> El 27/01/2009, a las 20:18, chris escribió:
>>>> I've been working on hosting Apple II games on my site using the
>>>> Apple
>>>> II Go applet (the only java applet for Apple Emulation that I've
>>>> found), however the color mode is giving me a headache. Here's the
>>>> problem:
>>>> When the applet is launched in Green mode (displayColorMode = 0)
>>>> all
>>>> the graphic edges are crisp and clean, but in color mode
>>>> (displayColorMode=1), the colors bleed and look kinda sloppy. I
>>>> downloaded the source and saw a color bleeding algorithm
>>>> (hiresLookupColor) in AppleDisplay.java. I tried to disable the
>>>> bleeding, but only threw exceptions.
>>>> My question is this, Is there any way to display the colors mode
>>>> without the bleeding? It looks like the bleeding is supposed to
>>>> emulate a NTSC television, but I would like to have nice crisp
>>>> color
>>>> without the bleed.
>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated,
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Chris- Hide quoted text -
AppleIIGo's implementation is not so bad, the problem is the luminance filter is not very good. Letters are actually thicker than they should be. There's also some little difference in color rendering when a certain pattern is shown (look at the monks face for example).
If there's anybody experienced on this list in digital signal processing, please scream! :-)
> Indeed! I always thought it was part of the charm of any authentic > Apple ][ emulation.. ;-)
> Jason
> On 28 Jan 2009, at 16:29, Marc S. Reßl wrote:
>> Hi Jon,
>> I invite you to get an original Apple II or Apple IIe computer, hook >> it up to a NTSC monitor, and see for yourself!
>> Best wishes!
>> Marc.-
>> El 28/01/2009, a las 13:00, Jon escribió:
>>> MESS's version of the emulator seems to have the same "problem".
>>> Jon
>>> On Jan 27, 4:47 pm, "Marc S. Reßl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Hi Chris,
>>>> The color bleeding was actually there on real Apple II's >>>> connected to >>>> an NTSC monitor. So be assured that other emulators are not >>>> emulating >>>> the Apple II correctly.
>>>> But I'd also like to tell you that the NTSC emulation on >>>> AppleIIGo is >>>> very basic (this was done so AppleIIGo works on mobile phones), and >>>> it >>>> *can* be improved. Unfortunately developing an accurate NTSC >>>> emulation >>>> requires knowledge of advanced signal processing, and I have other >>>> priorities at the time being. So if you know someone who does have >>>> this knowledge and is willing to help, please tell him so he can >>>> join >>>> the project!
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> Marc.-
>>>> El 27/01/2009, a las 20:18, chris escribió:
>>>>> I've been working on hosting Apple II games on my site using the >>>>> Apple >>>>> II Go applet (the only java applet for Apple Emulation that I've >>>>> found), however the color mode is giving me a headache. Here's the >>>>> problem:
>>>>> When the applet is launched in Green mode (displayColorMode = 0) >>>>> all >>>>> the graphic edges are crisp and clean, but in color mode >>>>> (displayColorMode=1), the colors bleed and look kinda sloppy. I >>>>> downloaded the source and saw a color bleeding algorithm >>>>> (hiresLookupColor) in AppleDisplay.java. I tried to disable the >>>>> bleeding, but only threw exceptions.
>>>>> My question is this, Is there any way to display the colors mode >>>>> without the bleeding? It looks like the bleeding is supposed to >>>>> emulate a NTSC television, but I would like to have nice crisp >>>>> color >>>>> without the bleed.
>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated, >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chris- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "appleiigo" group. > To post to this group, send email to appleiigo@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to appleiigo+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/appleiigo?hl=en > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
--- On Tue, 1/27/09, chris <christopher.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Marc,
> Thanks for the speedy reply. I wonder how the AppleWin guys made > their screen so non-bleedy? Too bad their application is not an > applet. I guess I'll live with the bleeding.
You can have crisp colors by emulating the IIgs non-linear RGB output by a simple table lookup. Marc (or even me) could do it, but there are more important things right now.
Every future respected Apple ][ emulator should have these three output options: - monochrome - NTSC - RGB (a-la IIgs style, which AFAIK is based on a previous RGB slotcard)
LOL, I only had the Apple IIc with the green screen, and that's all we
had at school too. (BTW, It's still in the basement, and hopefully
operational!)
I NEVER liked the color screens, so I run in monochrome on the
emulators anyway.
:)
On Jan 28, 10:29 am, "Marc S. Reßl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I invite you to get an original Apple II or Apple IIe computer, hook
> it up to a NTSC monitor, and see for yourself!
> Best wishes!
> Marc.-
> El 28/01/2009, a las 13:00, Jon escribió:
> > MESS's version of the emulator seems to have the same "problem".
> > Jon
> > On Jan 27, 4:47 pm, "Marc S. Reßl" <mre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi Chris,
> >> The color bleeding was actually there on real Apple II's connected to
> >> an NTSC monitor. So be assured that other emulators are not emulating
> >> the Apple II correctly.
> >> But I'd also like to tell you that the NTSC emulation on AppleIIGo is
> >> very basic (this was done so AppleIIGo works on mobile phones), and
> >> it
> >> *can* be improved. Unfortunately developing an accurate NTSC
> >> emulation
> >> requires knowledge of advanced signal processing, and I have other
> >> priorities at the time being. So if you know someone who does have
> >> this knowledge and is willing to help, please tell him so he can join
> >> the project!
> >> Best wishes,
> >> Marc.-
> >> El 27/01/2009, a las 20:18, chris escribió:
> >>> I've been working on hosting Apple II games on my site using the
> >>> Apple
> >>> II Go applet (the only java applet for Apple Emulation that I've
> >>> found), however the color mode is giving me a headache. Here's the
> >>> problem:
> >>> When the applet is launched in Green mode (displayColorMode = 0) all
> >>> the graphic edges are crisp and clean, but in color mode
> >>> (displayColorMode=1), the colors bleed and look kinda sloppy. I
> >>> downloaded the source and saw a color bleeding algorithm
> >>> (hiresLookupColor) in AppleDisplay.java. I tried to disable the
> >>> bleeding, but only threw exceptions.
> >>> My question is this, Is there any way to display the colors mode
> >>> without the bleeding? It looks like the bleeding is supposed to
> >>> emulate a NTSC television, but I would like to have nice crisp color
> >>> without the bleed.
> >>> Any help would be greatly appreciated,
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Chris- Hide quoted text -
