Just to let you all know that OA now have their site database online as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the moment (I'm working on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS client. Here's the GetCapabilities request:
This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of issues relating to problems of combining data from two separate databases with few common fields, whether or not we should put live data on, and whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, it's there, so do with it as you wish.
Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm short of spare time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you posted.
what about having it as a layer at Online Archeology? If everyone else joined in we might even get an inkling of what's been dug in the UK in the past 20 years! (or is that just crazy talk?)
There's a guide to converting e.g. NMR data kicking around in the files section of Antiquist. Any chance of a handy pointers list for setting up a WFS server, Jo? (i.e. what platform/mapping server/analgesic to use ;-) )
L.
On 27/02/07, jo.k.c...@googlemail.com <jo.k.c...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Just to let you all know that OA now have their site database online > as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the moment (I'm working > on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS client. Here's > the GetCapabilities request:
> This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of issues > relating to problems of combining data from two separate databases > with few common fields, whether or not we should put live data on, and > whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, it's there, > so do with it as you wish.
> Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm short of spare > time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you posted.
looks like Mapserver shooting 832 points with not much information attached :-( seriously - congrats on this; I failed miserably to get a WFS going last time I tried (about a year ago) - can you post your LAYER definition (or whole .map file) ?
re the comment about not knowing what has been dug and where, well most of the SMRs are pretty up-to-date with this info - would it be helpful to you antics if all that data was available as WMS/WFS ?? And for what purposes, and thus what level of detail?
cheers Crispin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Crispin Flower exeGesIS SDM Ltd. Great House Barn Talgarth Powys LD3 0AH tel: 01874 713072/711145 fax: 01874 711156 email: Crisp...@esdm.co.uk URL: www.esdm.co.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This email and any files transmitted with it are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, the email and any files have been transmitted to you in error and any copying, distribution or other use of the information contained in them is strictly prohibited. Nothing in this email message amounts to a contractual or other legal commitment on the part of exeGesIS SDM Ltd unless confirmed by a signed communication. exeGesIS SDM Ltd will make every effort to keep its network free of viruses. However, the recipient of this message will need to scan this message, and any attachments, for viruses, as exeGesIS SDM Ltd can take no responsibility for any computer virus that might be transferred by this email.
Registered in England and Wales : Great House Barn, New Street, Talgarth, Brecon, Powys, LD3 0AH Company Number : 3743089 VAT number : 736473122
________________________________
From: antiquist@googlegroups.com [mailto:antiquist@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Leif Isaksen Sent: 27 February 2007 18:31 To: antiquist@googlegroups.com Subject: [Antiquist] Re: Oxford Archaeology WFS Server
Hey Steve,
what about having it as a layer at Online Archeology? If everyone else joined in we might even get an inkling of what's been dug in the UK in the past 20 years! (or is that just crazy talk?)
There's a guide to converting e.g. NMR data kicking around in the files section of Antiquist. Any chance of a handy pointers list for setting up a WFS server, Jo? (i.e. what platform/mapping server/analgesic to use ;-) )
L.
On 27/02/07, jo.k.c...@googlemail.com <jo.k.c...@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Just to let you all know that OA now have their site database online as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the moment (I'm working on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS client. Here's the GetCapabilities request:
This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of issues relating to problems of combining data from two separate databases with few common fields, whether or not we should put live data on, and whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, it's there, so do with it as you wish.
Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm short of spare time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you posted.
> Just to let you all know that OA now have their site database online > as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the moment (I'm working > on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS client. Here's > the GetCapabilities request:
> This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of issues > relating to problems of combining data from two separate databases > with few common fields, whether or not we should put live data on, and > whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, it's there, > so do with it as you wish.
> Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm short of spare > time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you posted.
Hmmmm, I am pretty sure that here (i.e. in Germany) heritage managers would freak out if their site data was released to the public with precise coordinates -- for fear of looters. I know of some pretty bad cases, where good ideas like this have gone horribly wrong. Are you planning to have some sort of access control, or maybe add some fuzz to the site coordinates for public WFS layers? Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great thing to have some quality site data freely available. Just a thought.
> Any chance of opening up a WMS service so I can just dump tiles onto > Google Maps?
> Maybe we can work together to get a demo going and I can get a how to > guide so anyone can do it with Google Maps.
> Of course if it was WMS anyone could also add a layer to Google Earth.
> cheers,
> Steve
> On Feb 27, 6:08 pm, jo.k.c...@googlemail.com wrote: >> Hi All,
>> Just to let you all know that OA now have their site database online >> as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the moment (I'm working >> on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS client. Here's >> the GetCapabilities request:
>> This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of issues >> relating to problems of combining data from two separate databases >> with few common fields, whether or not we should put live data on, and >> whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, it's there, >> so do with it as you wish.
>> Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm short of spare >> time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you posted.
On 27/02/07, Crispin Flower <Crisp...@esdm.co.uk> wrote:
> looks like Mapserver shooting 832 points with not much information > attached :-(
:-D If I can take the liberty of speaking of Jo/OA's behalf, we thought it was best to get something out there, and only then worry about getting more data attached, rather then ponder about it for too long and never get started! It is admittedly a little skimpy tho, so we're intending to attach more data to the points (as well as add other layers) presently.
seriously - congrats on this; I failed miserably to get a WFS going last
> time I tried (about a year ago) - can you post your LAYER definition (or > whole .map file) ?
> re the comment about not knowing what has been dug and where, well most of > the SMRs are pretty up-to-date with this info - would it be helpful to you > antics if all that data was available as WMS/WFS ?? And for what purposes, > and thus what level of detail?
Now that really would be cool. Just thinking aloud here but, if I recall, councils have an obligation to make their SMR data available, but they charge for admin each and every time it's requested (which is every time someone does a Desk-Based Assessment). Oh, and they give to you in all kinds of crazy formats so then you've got a bunch of postprocessing to sort out too. Now if they were able to provide data in WMS/WFS so folks could just access it as needed in a single, standard, format then I, for one, would be a very happy puppy indeed. The obvious use is for DBAs - so the usual level of detail I guess - site, location, NGR, parish, county, description, category, etc.
But here's the 64 million dollar question: I know a lot of arch techies who'd be delighted to see, say, Exegesis provide WFS/WMS functionality out of the box. But will the councils use it? Or, to put it bluntly, is it going to mess with their revenue stream? Any council folk out there (in particular) care to comment?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Crispin Flower > exeGesIS SDM Ltd. > Great House Barn > Talgarth > Powys > LD3 0AH > tel: 01874 713072/711145 > fax: 01874 711156 > email: Crisp...@esdm.co.uk > URL: www.esdm.co.uk > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This email and any files transmitted with it are private and intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. > If you are not the intended recipient, the email and any files have been > transmitted to you in error and any copying, distribution or other use of > the information contained in them is strictly prohibited. > Nothing in this email message amounts to a contractual or other legal > commitment on the part of exeGesIS SDM Ltd unless confirmed by a signed > communication. > exeGesIS SDM Ltd will make every effort to keep its network free of > viruses. However, the recipient of this message will need to scan this > message, and any attachments, for viruses, as exeGesIS SDM Ltd can take no > responsibility for any computer virus that might be transferred by this > email.
> Registered in England and Wales : Great House Barn, New Street, Talgarth, > Brecon, Powys, LD3 0AH Company Number : 3743089 > VAT number : 736473122
> ------------------------------ > *From:* antiquist@googlegroups.com [mailto:antiquist@googlegroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Leif Isaksen > *Sent:* 27 February 2007 18:31 > *To:* antiquist@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* [Antiquist] Re: Oxford Archaeology WFS Server
> Hey Steve,
> what about having it as a layer at Online Archeology? If everyone else > joined in we might even get an inkling of what's been dug in the UK in the > past 20 years! (or is that just crazy talk?)
> There's a guide to converting e.g. NMR data kicking around in the files > section of Antiquist. Any chance of a handy pointers list for setting up a > WFS server, Jo? (i.e. what platform/mapping server/analgesic to use ;-) )
> L.
> On 27/02/07, jo.k.c...@googlemail.com <jo.k.c...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > Just to let you all know that OA now have their site database online > > as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the moment (I'm working > > on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS client. Here's > > the GetCapabilities request:
> > This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of issues > > relating to problems of combining data from two separate databases > > with few common fields, whether or not we should put live data on, and > > whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, it's there, > > so do with it as you wish.
> > Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm short of spare > > time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you posted.
Many thanks for the comments. In no particular order:
1: Yes, there isn't very much information attached to the points at the moment. That's because it's an amalgamation of two almost entirely incompatible databases (for historic reasons, OA being made of two separate entirely organisations until quite recently). If I had wanted to get the data all nice and shiny, I could have done that, and released it, ooh, next year sometime, whereas now I can change the data quite happily at my leisure and have it available as well. It's a proof of concept and an attempt to be more open, nothing more. In fact- it's a prime example of why we need more adoption of standards for describing what we do- at the moment it's full of terms like desk- based assessments/DBAs/D.B.As/desk-top surveys all describing the same thing. Tidying 30 years of data is quite a job...
2: Accuracy of the data- yes, we thought about the question of looters, but the data isn't quite up to date (so hasn't got any live sites on it), and is mostly only accurate to 100m or so. It's also publically available via the NMR (which is how we actually got the data for many of the sites), so we're not providing any extra information than is available elsewhere. We might choose to make it deliberately "fuzzy", or I think I can tune the WFS to only display some information about each point in the xml. I'm not sure about that, and it's certainly valuable to hear people's thoughts on the matter.
3: WMS- no problem. I didn't know how much call there was, but there's no reason why I can't set it up to do both. I'll come back to you on that.
4: Demos, guides to setting up mapping servers- no problem. Mapserver is really very straightforward, it's usually the front ends that are a drag.
Cheers for all the comments- I'll let you know as soon as we get more functionality!
Jo
On Feb 27, 9:37 pm, "Leif Isaksen" <leif...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 27/02/07, Crispin Flower <Crisp...@esdm.co.uk> wrote:
> > looks like Mapserver shooting 832 points with not much information > > attached :-(
> :-D > If I can take the liberty of speaking of Jo/OA's behalf, we thought it was > best to get something out there, and only then worry about getting more data > attached, rather then ponder about it for too long and never get started! It > is admittedly a little skimpy tho, so we're intending to attach more data to > the points (as well as add other layers) presently.
> seriously - congrats on this; I failed miserably to get a WFS going last
> > time I tried (about a year ago) - can you post your LAYER definition (or > > whole .map file) ?
> > re the comment about not knowing what has been dug and where, well most of > > the SMRs are pretty up-to-date with this info - would it be helpful to you > > antics if all that data was available as WMS/WFS ?? And for what purposes, > > and thus what level of detail?
> Now that really would be cool. > Just thinking aloud here but, if I recall, councils have an obligation to > make their SMR data available, but they charge for admin each and every time > it's requested (which is every time someone does a Desk-Based Assessment). > Oh, and they give to you in all kinds of crazy formats so then you've got a > bunch of postprocessing to sort out too. Now if they were able to provide > data in WMS/WFS so folks could just access it as needed in a single, > standard, format then I, for one, would be a very happy puppy indeed. The > obvious use is for DBAs - so the usual level of detail I guess - site, > location, NGR, parish, county, description, category, etc.
> But here's the 64 million dollar question: I know a lot of arch techies > who'd be delighted to see, say, Exegesis provide WFS/WMS functionality out > of the box. But will the councils use it? Or, to put it bluntly, is it going > to mess with their revenue stream? Any council folk out there (in > particular) care to comment?
> here's hoping ;-)
> L.
> cheers
> > Crispin
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Crispin Flower > > exeGesIS SDM Ltd. > > Great House Barn > > Talgarth > > Powys > > LD3 0AH > > tel: 01874 713072/711145 > > fax: 01874 711156 > > email: Crisp...@esdm.co.uk > > URL:www.esdm.co.uk > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > This email and any files transmitted with it are private and intended > > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. > > If you are not the intended recipient, the email and any files have been > > transmitted to you in error and any copying, distribution or other use of > > the information contained in them is strictly prohibited. > > Nothing in this email message amounts to a contractual or other legal > > commitment on the part of exeGesIS SDM Ltd unless confirmed by a signed > > communication. > > exeGesIS SDM Ltd will make every effort to keep its network free of > > viruses. However, the recipient of this message will need to scan this > > message, and any attachments, for viruses, as exeGesIS SDM Ltd can take no > > responsibility for any computer virus that might be transferred by this > > email.
> > Registered in England and Wales : Great House Barn, New Street, Talgarth, > > Brecon, Powys, LD3 0AH Company Number : 3743089 > > VAT number : 736473122
> > what about having it as a layer at Online Archeology? If everyone else > > joined in we might even get an inkling of what's been dug in the UK in the > > past 20 years! (or is that just crazy talk?)
> > There's a guide to converting e.g. NMR data kicking around in the files > > section of Antiquist. Any chance of a handy pointers list for setting up a > > WFS server, Jo? (i.e. what platform/mapping server/analgesic to use ;-) )
> > L.
> > On 27/02/07, jo.k.c...@googlemail.com <jo.k.c...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > > Just to let you all know that OA now have their site database online > > > as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the moment (I'm working > > > on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS client. Here's > > > the GetCapabilities request:
> > > This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of issues > > > relating to problems of combining data from two separate databases > > > with few common fields, whether or not we should put live data on, and > > > whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, it's there, > > > so do with it as you wish.
> > > Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm short of spare > > > time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you posted.
Hi all Most SMRs/HERs are now looking to put their data on-line, and the delays in doing so are mainly financial hurdles (most do not have any uncomitted budget at all) and the time it takes to do things like this (given that they are very small cogs in very big wheels). But believe me it is happening and will advance rapidly in the next couple of years.
Loss of revenue stream is not really a factor here. More of factor is their well-founded concern that contractors will (understandably) want to save money/time/effort by using just the data that may be available on-line, in preference to discussing the area/site/contract with the SMR staff and getting all the info (often paper). This is a well-observed phenomenon, and the quality of DBAs can plummet where the researcher relies on e.g. Canmore or whatever. This situation should mature - as people learn what info is appropriate for what purposes, and learn to serve up fit-for-purpose datasets. WFS/WMS alone is only a small part of the answer here. So in answer to Leif's question, yes local authorities will use these technologies in the near future, but we all need to think carefully about what is served up for what purposes, and to use that data responsibly. An interesting problem here is that these initiatives are often HLF-funded and have to be aimed at the public, but actually I suspect that contractors and academics are the more significant audience, so it is important that their needs are understood. In a nut shell, archaeological info on the web will generally give you an index to stuff that you are usually going to have to research in more detail by other means.
re Jo's comment about the need to adopt standards for describing events - is that comment aimed at contractors/academics? The primary records of event data are the SMRs, with additional national inventories like the AIP and now OASIS, and all of these use reasonably well-developed standards for structure and terminology (not enough yet, but they are not bad). I'm puzzled why OA are seeing themselves as curators of a dataset that anyone would want to look at, apart from for their own internal purposes and/or publicity. Once OA have adequately described the work they have done (DBA, excavation, whatever), and then submitted that to the relevant SMR and OASIS, surely that is job done from their point of view. I mean, nobody should expect to have to ask OA what excavations have been undertaken in East Borsetshire in the last 5 years - they will ask the SMR who also know about the digs done by all the other contractors. I'm not criticising what you have done, because it is a very useful stimulant!
And Steve - I'm thinking it should be possible to get WFS onto Google maps - your post suggested maybe not - have you investigated this?? Perhaps performance would just be much worse than WMS?
cheers Crispin
________________________________
From: antiquist@googlegroups.com [mailto:antiquist@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Leif Isaksen Sent: 27 February 2007 21:46 To: antiquist@googlegroups.com Subject: [Antiquist] Re: Oxford Archaeology WFS Server
On 27/02/07, Crispin Flower <Crisp...@esdm.co.uk> wrote:
looks like Mapserver shooting 832 points with not much information attached :-(
:-D If I can take the liberty of speaking of Jo/OA's behalf, we thought it was best to get something out there, and only then worry about getting more data attached, rather then ponder about it for too long and never get started! It is admittedly a little skimpy tho, so we're intending to attach more data to the points (as well as add other layers) presently.
seriously - congrats on this; I failed miserably to get a WFS going last time I tried (about a year ago) - can you post your LAYER definition (or whole .map file) ?
re the comment about not knowing what has been dug and where, well most of the SMRs are pretty up-to-date with this info - would it be helpful to you antics if all that data was available as WMS/WFS ?? And for what purposes, and thus what level of detail?
Now that really would be cool. Just thinking aloud here but, if I recall, councils have an obligation to make their SMR data available, but they charge for admin each and every time it's requested (which is every time someone does a Desk-Based Assessment). Oh, and they give to you in all kinds of crazy formats so then you've got a bunch of postprocessing to sort out too. Now if they were able to provide data in WMS/WFS so folks could just access it as needed in a single, standard, format then I, for one, would be a very happy puppy indeed. The obvious use is for DBAs - so the usual level of detail I guess - site, location, NGR, parish, county, description, category, etc.
But here's the 64 million dollar question: I know a lot of arch techies who'd be delighted to see, say, Exegesis provide WFS/WMS functionality out of the box. But will the councils use it? Or, to put it bluntly, is it going to mess with their revenue stream? Any council folk out there (in particular) care to comment?
here's hoping ;-)
L.
cheers Crispin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Crispin Flower exeGesIS SDM Ltd. Great House Barn Talgarth Powys LD3 0AH tel: 01874 713072/711145 fax: 01874 711156 email: Crisp...@esdm.co.uk URL: www.esdm.co.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This email and any files transmitted with it are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, the email and any files have been transmitted to you in error and any copying, distribution or other use of the information contained in them is strictly prohibited. Nothing in this email message amounts to a contractual or other legal commitment on the part of exeGesIS SDM Ltd unless confirmed by a signed communication. exeGesIS SDM Ltd will make every effort to keep its network free of viruses. However, the recipient of this message will need to scan this message, and any attachments, for viruses, as exeGesIS SDM Ltd can take no responsibility for any computer virus that might be transferred by this email.
Registered in England and Wales : Great House Barn, New Street, Talgarth, Brecon, Powys, LD3 0AH Company Number : 3743089 VAT number : 736473122
________________________________
From: antiquist@googlegroups.com [mailto:antiquist@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Leif Isaksen Sent: 27 February 2007 18:31 To: antiquist@googlegroups.com Subject: [Antiquist] Re: Oxford Archaeology WFS Server
Hey Steve,
what about having it as a layer at Online Archeology? If everyone else joined in we might even get an inkling of what's been dug in the UK in the past 20 years! (or is that just crazy talk?)
There's a guide to converting e.g. NMR data kicking around in the files section of Antiquist. Any chance of a handy pointers list for setting up a WFS server, Jo? (i.e. what platform/mapping server/analgesic to use ;-) )
L.
On 27/02/07, jo.k.c...@googlemail.com <jo.k.c...@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Just to let you all know that OA now have their site database online as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the moment (I'm working on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS client. Here's the GetCapabilities request:
This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of issues relating to problems of combining data from two separate databases with few common fields, whether or not we should put live data on, and whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, it's there, so do with it as you wish.
Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm short of spare time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you posted.
Jo - thanks I look forward to the WMS and will rig up some test pages
Crispin - yes, it's possible to load data onto Gmaps via a WFS call. You just need to parse the GML. But there are performance implications you need to consider with Gmaps. Loading > 200 markers in one viewport starts to degrade performance. You can use some clustering code to help this though. From my tests, I prefer to overlay opaque layers of PNG tiles from a WMS AJAX call. The user can toggle these layers on/ off on the client. You can then capture an onlick event per layer and send the x,y back to a WFS call and populate the InfoWindow this way with a single item. This reduces the load on the client considerably and means you are actually targetting your data calls rather that trying to parse too much at once.
Given this model and hopefully the introduction of more WMS/WFS services from separate sources, it opens up some great opportunities to present archaeological data to the end user at very low cost.
cheers,
Steve
On Feb 28, 9:44 am, "Crispin Flower" <Crisp...@esdm.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi all > Most SMRs/HERs are now looking to put their data on-line, and the delays > in doing so are mainly financial hurdles (most do not have any > uncomitted budget at all) and the time it takes to do things like this > (given that they are very small cogs in very big wheels). But believe me > it is happening and will advance rapidly in the next couple of years.
> Loss of revenue stream is not really a factor here. More of factor is > their well-founded concern that contractors will (understandably) want > to save money/time/effort by using just the data that may be available > on-line, in preference to discussing the area/site/contract with the SMR > staff and getting all the info (often paper). This is a well-observed > phenomenon, and the quality of DBAs can plummet where the researcher > relies on e.g. Canmore or whatever. This situation should mature - as > people learn what info is appropriate for what purposes, and learn to > serve up fit-for-purpose datasets. > WFS/WMS alone is only a small part of the answer here. > So in answer to Leif's question, yes local authorities will use these > technologies in the near future, but we all need to think carefully > about what is served up for what purposes, and to use that data > responsibly. An interesting problem here is that these initiatives are > often HLF-funded and have to be aimed at the public, but actually I > suspect that contractors and academics are the more significant > audience, so it is important that their needs are understood. > In a nut shell, archaeological info on the web will generally give you > an index to stuff that you are usually going to have to research in more > detail by other means.
> re Jo's comment about the need to adopt standards for describing events > - is that comment aimed at contractors/academics? > The primary records of event data are the SMRs, with additional national > inventories like the AIP and now OASIS, and all of these use reasonably > well-developed standards for structure and terminology (not enough yet, > but they are not bad). > I'm puzzled why OA are seeing themselves as curators of a dataset that > anyone would want to look at, apart from for their own internal purposes > and/or publicity. Once OA have adequately described the work they have > done (DBA, excavation, whatever), and then submitted that to the > relevant SMR and OASIS, surely that is job done from their point of > view. I mean, nobody should expect to have to ask OA what excavations > have been undertaken in East Borsetshire in the last 5 years - they will > ask the SMR who also know about the digs done by all the other > contractors. I'm not criticising what you have done, because it is a > very useful stimulant!
> And Steve - I'm thinking it should be possible to get WFS onto Google > maps - your post suggested maybe not - have you investigated this?? > Perhaps performance would just be much worse than WMS?
> cheers > Crispin
> ________________________________
> From: antiquist@googlegroups.com [mailto:antiquist@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Leif Isaksen > Sent: 27 February 2007 21:46 > To: antiquist@googlegroups.com > Subject: [Antiquist] Re: Oxford Archaeology WFS Server
> On 27/02/07, Crispin Flower <Crisp...@esdm.co.uk> wrote:
> looks like Mapserver shooting 832 points with not much > information attached :-(
> :-D > If I can take the liberty of speaking of Jo/OA's behalf, we thought it > was best to get something out there, and only then worry about getting > more data attached, rather then ponder about it for too long and never > get started! It is admittedly a little skimpy tho, so we're intending to > attach more data to the points (as well as add other layers) presently.
> seriously - congrats on this; I failed miserably to get a WFS > going last time I tried (about a year ago) - can you post your LAYER > definition (or whole .map file) ?
> re the comment about not knowing what has been dug and where, > well most of the SMRs are pretty up-to-date with this info - would it be > helpful to you antics if all that data was available as WMS/WFS ?? And > for what purposes, and thus what level of detail?
> Now that really would be cool. > Just thinking aloud here but, if I recall, councils have an obligation > to make their SMR data available, but they charge for admin each and > every time it's requested (which is every time someone does a Desk-Based > Assessment). Oh, and they give to you in all kinds of crazy formats so > then you've got a bunch of postprocessing to sort out too. Now if they > were able to provide data in WMS/WFS so folks could just access it as > needed in a single, standard, format then I, for one, would be a very > happy puppy indeed. The obvious use is for DBAs - so the usual level of > detail I guess - site, location, NGR, parish, county, description, > category, etc.
> But here's the 64 million dollar question: I know a lot of arch techies > who'd be delighted to see, say, Exegesis provide WFS/WMS functionality > out of the box. But will the councils use it? Or, to put it bluntly, is > it going to mess with their revenue stream? Any council folk out there > (in particular) care to comment?
> here's hoping ;-)
> L.
> cheers > Crispin
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Crispin Flower > exeGesIS SDM Ltd. > Great House Barn > Talgarth > Powys > LD3 0AH > tel: 01874 713072/711145 > fax: 01874 711156 > email: Crisp...@esdm.co.uk > URL:www.esdm.co.uk > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This email and any files transmitted with it are private and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are > addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, the email and any > files have been transmitted to you in error and any copying, > distribution or other use of the information contained in them is > strictly prohibited. > Nothing in this email message amounts to a contractual or other > legal commitment on the part of exeGesIS SDM Ltd unless confirmed by a > signed communication. > exeGesIS SDM Ltd will make every effort to keep its network free > of viruses. However, the recipient of this message will need to scan > this message, and any attachments, for viruses, as exeGesIS SDM Ltd can > take no responsibility for any computer virus that might be transferred > by this email.
> Registered in England and Wales : Great House Barn, New Street, > Talgarth, Brecon, Powys, LD3 0AH Company Number : 3743089 > VAT number : 736473122
> ________________________________
> From: antiquist@googlegroups.com > [mailto:antiquist@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Leif Isaksen > Sent: 27 February 2007 18:31 > To: antiquist@googlegroups.com > Subject: [Antiquist] Re: Oxford Archaeology WFS Server
> Hey Steve,
> what about having it as a layer at Online Archeology? If > everyone else joined in we might even get an inkling of what's been dug > in the UK in the past 20 years! (or is that just crazy talk?)
> There's a guide to converting e.g. NMR data kicking around in > the files section of Antiquist. Any chance of a handy pointers list for > setting up a WFS server, Jo? (i.e. what platform/mapping > server/analgesic to use ;-) )
> L.
> On 27/02/07, jo.k.c...@googlemail.com <jo.k.c...@googlemail.com> > wrote:
> Hi All,
> Just to let you all know that OA now have their site > database online > as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the > moment (I'm working > on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS > client. Here's > the GetCapabilities request:
> This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of > issues > relating to problems of combining data from two separate > databases > with few common fields, whether or not we should put > live data on, and > whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, > it's there, > so do with it as you wish.
> Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm > short of spare > time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you > posted.
Because we wanted to. Why shouldn't we? This has both internal and external uses, and all the while we are waiting for curators to put their datasets on line and make them more available, this is one way of getting our data out and about. We subscribe to the philosophy of open data, which means we are open with our own datasets, and this was a proof of concept experiment that we could do this easily. It's not meant as a criticism or subversion of the standard curatorial process, it's just a way of sharing data.
My comment about standards was not meant as a dig, but in fact a wry remark that even in one organisation it's not possible to amalgamate two datasets that do the same job without a lot of work sorting out the consistency. That is partly an issue of training staff, and building databases that don't allow inconsistency but we're talking about 30 years of data and hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Jo
On Feb 28, 9:44 am, "Crispin Flower" <Crisp...@esdm.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi all > Most SMRs/HERs are now looking to put their data on-line, and the delays > in doing so are mainly financial hurdles (most do not have any > uncomitted budget at all) and the time it takes to do things like this > (given that they are very small cogs in very big wheels). But believe me > it is happening and will advance rapidly in the next couple of years.
> Loss of revenue stream is not really a factor here. More of factor is > their well-founded concern that contractors will (understandably) want > to save money/time/effort by using just the data that may be available > on-line, in preference to discussing the area/site/contract with the SMR > staff and getting all the info (often paper). This is a well-observed > phenomenon, and the quality of DBAs can plummet where the researcher > relies on e.g. Canmore or whatever. This situation should mature - as > people learn what info is appropriate for what purposes, and learn to > serve up fit-for-purpose datasets. > WFS/WMS alone is only a small part of the answer here. > So in answer to Leif's question, yes local authorities will use these > technologies in the near future, but we all need to think carefully > about what is served up for what purposes, and to use that data > responsibly. An interesting problem here is that these initiatives are > often HLF-funded and have to be aimed at the public, but actually I > suspect that contractors and academics are the more significant > audience, so it is important that their needs are understood. > In a nut shell, archaeological info on the web will generally give you > an index to stuff that you are usually going to have to research in more > detail by other means.
> re Jo's comment about the need to adopt standards for describing events > - is that comment aimed at contractors/academics? > The primary records of event data are the SMRs, with additional national > inventories like the AIP and now OASIS, and all of these use reasonably > well-developed standards for structure and terminology (not enough yet, > but they are not bad). > I'm puzzled why OA are seeing themselves as curators of a dataset that > anyone would want to look at, apart from for their own internal purposes > and/or publicity. Once OA have adequately described the work they have > done (DBA, excavation, whatever), and then submitted that to the > relevant SMR and OASIS, surely that is job done from their point of > view. I mean, nobody should expect to have to ask OA what excavations > have been undertaken in East Borsetshire in the last 5 years - they will > ask the SMR who also know about the digs done by all the other > contractors. I'm not criticising what you have done, because it is a > very useful stimulant!
> And Steve - I'm thinking it should be possible to get WFS onto Google > maps - your post suggested maybe not - have you investigated this?? > Perhaps performance would just be much worse than WMS?
> cheers > Crispin
> ________________________________
> From: antiquist@googlegroups.com [mailto:antiquist@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Leif Isaksen > Sent: 27 February 2007 21:46 > To: antiquist@googlegroups.com > Subject: [Antiquist] Re: Oxford Archaeology WFS Server
> On 27/02/07, Crispin Flower <Crisp...@esdm.co.uk> wrote:
> looks like Mapserver shooting 832 points with not much > information attached :-(
> :-D > If I can take the liberty of speaking of Jo/OA's behalf, we thought it > was best to get something out there, and only then worry about getting > more data attached, rather then ponder about it for too long and never > get started! It is admittedly a little skimpy tho, so we're intending to > attach more data to the points (as well as add other layers) presently.
> seriously - congrats on this; I failed miserably to get a WFS > going last time I tried (about a year ago) - can you post your LAYER > definition (or whole .map file) ?
> re the comment about not knowing what has been dug and where, > well most of the SMRs are pretty up-to-date with this info - would it be > helpful to you antics if all that data was available as WMS/WFS ?? And > for what purposes, and thus what level of detail?
> Now that really would be cool. > Just thinking aloud here but, if I recall, councils have an obligation > to make their SMR data available, but they charge for admin each and > every time it's requested (which is every time someone does a Desk-Based > Assessment). Oh, and they give to you in all kinds of crazy formats so > then you've got a bunch of postprocessing to sort out too. Now if they > were able to provide data in WMS/WFS so folks could just access it as > needed in a single, standard, format then I, for one, would be a very > happy puppy indeed. The obvious use is for DBAs - so the usual level of > detail I guess - site, location, NGR, parish, county, description, > category, etc.
> But here's the 64 million dollar question: I know a lot of arch techies > who'd be delighted to see, say, Exegesis provide WFS/WMS functionality > out of the box. But will the councils use it? Or, to put it bluntly, is > it going to mess with their revenue stream? Any council folk out there > (in particular) care to comment?
> here's hoping ;-)
> L.
> cheers > Crispin
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Crispin Flower > exeGesIS SDM Ltd. > Great House Barn > Talgarth > Powys > LD3 0AH > tel: 01874 713072/711145 > fax: 01874 711156 > email: Crisp...@esdm.co.uk > URL:www.esdm.co.uk > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This email and any files transmitted with it are private and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are > addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, the email and any > files have been transmitted to you in error and any copying, > distribution or other use of the information contained in them is > strictly prohibited. > Nothing in this email message amounts to a contractual or other > legal commitment on the part of exeGesIS SDM Ltd unless confirmed by a > signed communication. > exeGesIS SDM Ltd will make every effort to keep its network free > of viruses. However, the recipient of this message will need to scan > this message, and any attachments, for viruses, as exeGesIS SDM Ltd can > take no responsibility for any computer virus that might be transferred > by this email.
> Registered in England and Wales : Great House Barn, New Street, > Talgarth, Brecon, Powys, LD3 0AH Company Number : 3743089 > VAT number : 736473122
> ________________________________
> From: antiquist@googlegroups.com > [mailto:antiquist@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Leif Isaksen > Sent: 27 February 2007 18:31 > To: antiquist@googlegroups.com > Subject: [Antiquist] Re: Oxford Archaeology WFS Server
> Hey Steve,
> what about having it as a layer at Online Archeology? If > everyone else joined in we might even get an inkling of what's been dug > in the UK in the past 20 years! (or is that just crazy talk?)
> There's a guide to converting e.g. NMR data kicking around in > the files section of Antiquist. Any chance of a handy pointers list for > setting up a WFS server, Jo? (i.e. what platform/mapping > server/analgesic to use ;-) )
> L.
> On 27/02/07, jo.k.c...@googlemail.com <jo.k.c...@googlemail.com> > wrote:
> Hi All,
> Just to let you all know that OA now have their site > database online > as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the > moment (I'm working > on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS > client. Here's > the GetCapabilities request:
> This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of > issues > relating to problems of combining data from two separate > databases > with few common fields, whether or not we should put > live data on, and > whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, > it's there, > so do with it as you wish.
> Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm > short of spare > time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you > posted.
> Just to let you all know that OA now have their site database online > as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the moment (I'm working > on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS client. Here's > the GetCapabilities request:
> This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of issues > relating to problems of combining data from two separate databases > with few common fields, whether or not we should put live data on, and > whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, it's there, > so do with it as you wish.
> Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm short of spare > time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you posted.
This is the OA WFS displayed on google maps via my server side proxy which handles the clustering, minimizing stress on the client's browser. Contra Steve (sorry) I think that this is a better approach than serving up the data via WMS, mainly because you're separating out presentation from content. Yes, you can style WMS layers using SLD, but it is a real PITA, especially if you want to have dynamically generated SLDs.
Anyhow the above page is a bit rough and ready. A diamond with a '+1' in its centre is a cluster of sites that can't be resolved at the present zoom level. Click on the diamond to zoom in. A diamond with a dot in its centre is a site. Click on it to display a popup window with the OA project code and the site's code. Ideally there would be a link to further information about the site, but I guess that might be for the future...hint, hint ;)
Thanks to OA for making this available to the community.
Cheers,
Andrew
-- Andrew Larcombe Freelance Geospatial, Database & Web Programming
Leif Isaksen wrote: > Now that really would be cool. > Just thinking aloud here but, if I recall, councils have an obligation > to make their SMR data available, but they charge for admin each and > every time it's requested (which is every time someone does a Desk-Based > Assessment). Oh, and they give to you in all kinds of crazy formats so > then you've got a bunch of postprocessing to sort out too. Now if they > were able to provide data in WMS/WFS so folks could just access it as > needed in a single, standard, format then I, for one, would be a very > happy puppy indeed. The obvious use is for DBAs - so the usual level of > detail I guess - site, location, NGR, parish, county, description, > category, etc.
> But here's the 64 million dollar question: I know a lot of arch techies > who'd be delighted to see, say, Exegesis provide WFS/WMS functionality > out of the box. But will the councils use it? Or, to put it bluntly, is > it going to mess with their revenue stream? Any council folk out there > (in particular) care to comment?
All of OAD's upcoming online HERs - SMR is soo 90's ;) - have WMS functionality out-of-the-box. However the councils we've dealt with have all specified this as a requirement for use internally, either for linking with existing desktop GISs and/or WMS servers.
Cheers,
Andrew
-- Andrew Larcombe Freelance Geospatial, Database & Web Programming
No apologies needed, WMS is my personal preference as I said. The reason is because if the user wants an holistic view of 1000s of points across a wide area, the best method is using WMS and PNG layers, not clustered points. Also if you want to show polygons on Gmaps I think the best approach is clickable PNG layers rather than processing all polygon co-ordinates.
cheers,
Steve
On Mar 1, 12:42 am, Andrew Larcombe <and...@andrewlarcombe.co.uk> wrote:
> > Just to let you all know that OA now have their site database online > > as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the moment (I'm working > > on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS client. Here's > > the GetCapabilities request:
> > This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of issues > > relating to problems of combining data from two separate databases > > with few common fields, whether or not we should put live data on, and > > whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, it's there, > > so do with it as you wish.
> > Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm short of spare > > time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you posted.
> This is the OA WFS displayed on google maps via my server side proxy > which handles the clustering, minimizing stress on the client's browser. > Contra Steve (sorry) I think that this is a better approach than serving > up the data via WMS, mainly because you're separating out presentation > from content. Yes, you can style WMS layers using SLD, but it is a real > PITA, especially if you want to have dynamically generated SLDs.
> Anyhow the above page is a bit rough and ready. A diamond with a '+1' in > its centre is a cluster of sites that can't be resolved at the present > zoom level. Click on the diamond to zoom in. A diamond with a dot in its > centre is a site. Click on it to display a popup window with the OA > project code and the site's code. Ideally there would be a link to > further information about the site, but I guess that might be for the > future...hint, hint ;)
> Thanks to OA for making this available to the community.
> Cheers,
> Andrew
> -- > Andrew Larcombe > Freelance Geospatial, Database & Web Programming
Thanks for putting a nice little map up Andrew, you've beaten me to it! We will have an interface on our website soon though.
My colleagues in Oxford have asked me to point out that the dataset isn't exactly complete. There are a lot of old sites that we simply don't have grid references for yet, but hopefully we should be able to resolve this and get a more representative dataset up. Ho Hum
Jo
On Mar 1, 10:32 am, s...@online-archaeology.co.uk wrote:
> No apologies needed, WMS is my personal preference as I said. The > reason is because if the user wants an holistic view of 1000s of > points across a wide area, the best method is using WMS and PNG > layers, not clustered points. Also if you want to show polygons on > Gmaps I think the best approach is clickable PNG layers rather than > processing all polygon co-ordinates.
> cheers,
> Steve
> On Mar 1, 12:42 am, Andrew Larcombe <and...@andrewlarcombe.co.uk> > wrote:
> > > Just to let you all know that OA now have their site database online > > > as a WFS server. There's no fancy interface at the moment (I'm working > > > on that), but you can connect with your favourite WFS client. Here's > > > the GetCapabilities request:
> > > This is just a work in progress, with a whole series of issues > > > relating to problems of combining data from two separate databases > > > with few common fields, whether or not we should put live data on, and > > > whether there's any other data we could include. Anyhow, it's there, > > > so do with it as you wish.
> > > Plans for a shiny web-interface are afoot, though I'm short of spare > > > time and having a few compilation issues. I'll keep you posted.
> > This is the OA WFS displayed on google maps via my server side proxy > > which handles the clustering, minimizing stress on the client's browser. > > Contra Steve (sorry) I think that this is a better approach than serving > > up the data via WMS, mainly because you're separating out presentation > > from content. Yes, you can style WMS layers using SLD, but it is a real > > PITA, especially if you want to have dynamically generated SLDs.
> > Anyhow the above page is a bit rough and ready. A diamond with a '+1' in > > its centre is a cluster of sites that can't be resolved at the present > > zoom level. Click on the diamond to zoom in. A diamond with a dot in its > > centre is a site. Click on it to display a popup window with the OA > > project code and the site's code. Ideally there would be a link to > > further information about the site, but I guess that might be for the > > future...hint, hint ;)
> > Thanks to OA for making this available to the community.
> > Cheers,
> > Andrew
> > -- > > Andrew Larcombe > > Freelance Geospatial, Database & Web Programming
> No apologies needed, WMS is my personal preference as I said. The > reason is because if the user wants an holistic view of 1000s of > points across a wide area, the best method is using WMS and PNG > layers, not clustered points. Also if you want to show polygons on > Gmaps I think the best approach is clickable PNG layers rather than > processing all polygon co-ordinates.
Yes, there's more that one way to skin a cat. What you say about polygons is true - this is how we implemented a recent HER at OAD. At high level points are drawn as javascript clickable objects on a map, when zooming in beyond a certain level the sites polygons are drawn using a wms layer.
Cheers,
Andrew
-- Andrew Larcombe Freelance Geospatial, Database & Web Programming
jo.k.c...@googlemail.com wrote: > Thanks for putting a nice little map up Andrew, you've beaten me to > it! We will have an interface on our website soon though.
> My colleagues in Oxford have asked me to point out that the dataset > isn't exactly complete. There are a lot of old sites that we simply > don't have grid references for yet, but hopefully we should be able to > resolve this and get a more representative dataset up. Ho Hum
No probs. I was stuck for 4 hours on the A34 towards Oxford yesterday morning, then in meetings during the afternoon - felt I had to do something productive that day!
Was hoping to add a dialog box to show site information, so let me know as and when you get it!
Cheers,
Andrew
-- Andrew Larcombe Freelance Geospatial, Database & Web Programming
