AOSP anniversary: express yourself, tell us what you think

[Jean-Baptiste Queru]

A year ago, AOSP turned to life with a set of initial contributions
from Google and its partners, with millions of line of previously
unreleased code suddenly becoming available for the world to use and
enjoy.

Since then, there've been highs, lows, successes, failures, and just
about everything in between.

I'd like to use this milestone to ask you what you think about AOSP:
tell us what you've liked for the entire year, what you've disliked
for the entire year, what used to be bad but has improved, what used
to be good but has regressed, what you'd like to see continue, what
you'd like to see change, how AOSP compares to other open-source
projects, how AOSP compares to other phone platforms.

Also, feel free to tell us more about you. Are you working with AOSP
as a hobby or as part of your job? Are you mostly interested in the
system-level aspects (kernel, C library), dalvik, the core Android
framework, the applications? Are you working for an OEM or an ODM,
directly or as a contractor/partner? Are you mostly interested in AOSP
on phones, or on other hardware?

I understand that some people might want to keep their replies
private. In that case, feel free to send them to me directly, I won't
share them in public.

Express yourselves!

JBQ

--
Jean-Baptiste M. "JBQ" Queru
Software Engineer, Android Open-Source Project, Google.

[Aleksey Vlasov]

I just love android and everything related to it. But there is one
thing everyone just hated - Cyanogen C&D.

[jfey]

AOSP will change the rules of the industry - it already did.

Congrats to the team :-)

cheers

Juergen

[Thomas Riley]

Hello fellow Android users, developers and maybe even the odd
engineer!

The thing that has impresses me most about the AOSP is how quickly it
has evolved. It has been just over a year since the announcement of
the G1 (sep 23rd 08 right?) and looking back I find it quite amazing
how things have changed from 1.0 > 1.6 however, I do believe Android
has much more to come if it’s to compete with the iPhone platform. I
guess we will have to see what happens with the “Droid” announcement
on the 28th!

I develop Android apps purely as a hobby. My latest app is based
around the TTS engine that is in 1.6 and I was quite happy that the
app was fairly successful on the Android Market :)

Finally, while the Google engineers and OHA partners are the key
element of the AOSP I would also like to say a big thanks to the guys
who run sites such as androidandme.com and androidguys.com for keeping
us all up to date on Android happenings and keeping the Android
community buzzing!

Good work everyone!

[Disconnect]

Where's the 2.0 source? Rumours have a final retail device arriving in
as little as 2 weeks (and tv ads say within November) but the only
answer on source has been "I dunno, maybe later, maybe never". (I've
even heard complaining from OHA members about not having access to
it..)

Progress is great, but its still one-step-forward two-steps-back
punch-the-guy-next-to-you-in-the-face.

From the outside (and you know I've been following this :) ..) a lot
of strides were made. Source came out a whole 12 hours before devices
at one point (instead of weeks later). Community developers were able
to make preview/beta SDK releases (and get actual fixes into the
platform/sdk.) Even got a couple of sdk prerelease versions, although
they could have been earlier. The last few gpl violations are being
cleaned up now (or so I expect) and the "don't ask me, ask him" game
has mostly stopped. That is great. We even have a dedicated overworked
engineer trying to make AOSP actually run instead of just shrugging
and saying "ohwell, sorry, closed-source guys said no". Thats supurb.

What we don't have is up to date source, 2 major releases after "the
release that will be created mostly in the public tree". (Not even "up
to date" source, but ANY.) And instead of defragmenting trees, where
proprietary bits are overlayed on the AOSP and most android-general
work is done in public, it is entirely the opposite - 2.0 is 100%
closed source, 1.6 is still code-dumps-over-the-wall and code
submissions routinely languish 6+ months before being rejected without
explanation or discussion.

Google's credibility is still reeling from the community C&D
(regardless of their legal position) and the constant late (or never)
code releases - droid only makes it worse. (And now its advertised
with "open development" rather than "open source". Red flags.. source
isn't released, and they failed to wave the open-source flag to make
sales. Anyone else worried?)

Its beyond time for google to decide if android is going to be open or
not. Will 2.0 source arrive before 2.1, 2.5 or 3.0 ships? (EG will we
have it in hand before minor, major or huge updates are going out to
devices..)

[Al Sutton]

Blimey, was it only a year ago :).

To me it's showed great promise recently, but it's under-delivered on
*my personal* expectations. I'd hoped to have a mobile device/phone
that was affordable, the Android distribution could be built from
scratch (without extracting proprietary binaries from another build),
and would be usable in a day-to-day context, but it seems we're still
a bit off that.

I think Android has done fantastically, and apart from the odd quick
with missing bluetooth features (namely DUN & file transfer), its'
been an exciting OS to be involved with, but I feel that Google hasn't
got fully behind AOSP, but hopefully that can change in the next 12
months.

Here's to the next year....

Al.

--

* Looking for Android Apps? - Try http://andappstore.com/ *

======
Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the
company number 6741909.

The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's
subsidiaries.

[Adam Vollmer]

On the whole, I'm pretty happy about the AOSP. I'm tremendously happy
about the ability to actually look at a method's source code and thus
figure out exactly what's going on when I'm having trouble getting
some framework stuff to work.

Given the huge reliance on native code in my application, it's
important that my app compiles nicely against whatever version is out
there. Unfortunately, I'd still like to have the ability to actually
know that it will work on the next version before a phone comes out
with the new version and we're broken. I'm glad that we were given a
heads up by a google engineer that we may not work in Eclair, but
without the source to actually resolve the problem in making a new
build, we're a little stuck. I know that we're being "bad" by linking
against things that are not marked "stable" and thus not future-proof,
but framework limitations means that either we cheat or we don't work
at all. As such, it'd be nice to have source code for upcoming
versions available before that version is already out.

This is, of course, still a tremendous leap ahead of other vendors
whose support ranges from "We'll get back to you" to "Buy a support
package and maybe we'll get back to you"

[Armando Ceniceros]

For me it's about getting back into programming. I had some basic programming experience but never really dove deep into a single language or discipline. Now I use any chance I get to tinker and learn at any level; apps, framework, Linux undersystem. I could care less about where the platform goes from here on or about legal issues, etc, because just a single branch clone is enough to put a lot of work into and we all know there's plenty of room for improvement.
As for the future, it's not really up to Android, but I'd like it if the platform eventually gave birth to an open device that's a multi-communication device with support for hardware upgrades (down to the processor) and powered by Android,  ofcourse. Just imagine, community created and supported drivers for everything...

[bnovc]

I work for an OEM on mainly things under Apps (framework down).

As Disconnect noted, I think the AOSP lag behind is really
frustrating, especially that certain companies are privileged over
others.

The other main problem is documentation. There is almost no
information for OEMs except occasional source comments.

Beside that, I think AOSP is doing wonderfully and will only grow in
success.

[jpustin]

Gday Droiders!

I want to preface this post with the statement that I have never been
so excited to be semi apart of something that has to potential to
penetrate the mass market in such a positive way. The ideas and aims
of this platform is something to be truely excited about because it
marks an entirely way of developing things to a mass market and Google
definitely deserves the big claps for providing the platform and
framework for developers.

On a personal use of the platform I have been both pleased and
disappointment, mainly disappointment but I am so interested by the
whole thing I am going to stick with it and experience first hand it
meet its potential.

I'm mainly just a user/consumer with a slightly tech savvy attitude
and I have come from using the business nokia mobiles which although
had a bulky and highly inefficient interface, they WORKED extremely
solidly and I guess that has been the main source of the user
experience disappointment. Waiting minutes for simple tasks to happen
just needs to end, even on the omnia I did not have this issue (i had
the omnia for 3 days).

Even though at the moment Android kinda feels like a giant BETA test,
there is frekin amazing things happening in the community and that
alone is a phenomenal thing happening and I can't deny who I am and
that is a big nerd and I am addicted to following the android platform
and everything associated with it so for me that is where my
satisfaction is coming from, not nescessarily from the actual using of
it yet but dreaming of the possibilities.

As far as what I would like to see, I would love to get my hands on
some new handsets with better hardware and also see if the big
companies pull they're finger out and realise just like the developer
community that they can do some awesome customisations to make a user
experience great, but for now HTC and Motorola with they're blur
version seem to be the only two that are visible at the moment.

Anyway I am very excited to be apart of this even in just a tiny way.

Justin

[tauntz]

First off, let me say that all the engineers working on AOSP have done
a great job, so please don't take my following rant personally :)

AFAIK the definition of AOSP is "Android Open Source Project", right?
There's just one problem with it - it's not a project. It's just a
million lines of source code dropped over the fence when Google feels
it's time to do so.
AOSP is open-source - and that's it - the source is open but
everything else is managed in the dark by somebody (who actually
manages this? Google? some OHA members?) and the public and the
community have NO visibility over it. We just get access to the source
code (occasionally) and that's all.
Is there a roadmap for AOSP? No
Is it visible what features will be added to next versions? No
Is it visible when next versions are planned to be complete? No
Are there public discussion about what should be in android in future
versions? No, basically not (there was a discussion about how the
bluetooth API should look like but that's basically it, isn't it?)
Are there public UI/UE guidelines on how platform apps should look
like so people could actually contribute in this part? No
Is there any info about the development cycle (when's feature
complete, when does testing start, who tests, for how long, etc)? No
and so on and so on.. everything except the source files is totally
closed as far as I can tell.

Then there come news like this
http://androidandme.com/2009/10/news/google-hand-picks-developers-for-android-2-0/
- I have nothing against the fact that some people get access to some
Google Android releases (not AOSP) but do we really have to find out
about it from some third party website? I don't see it mentioned in
the blog @ d.android.com - why does this have to happen again
secretly? Why not openly announce that "Hey, we are giving some app
developers early access to some future software that even the AOSP and
OHA members don't have yet"?
Why are we learning about planned future Android changes from some
blogs where people post leaked screenshots? That's not an operating
system that I would call "open".

All that AOSP is is a dumping-ground for sourcecode. From one side
it's Google who has been dumping something after they have released
Google Android versions to manufacturers. From the other side it's the
community who dumps some small pieces of code now and then but the
point is that these won't make it to actual devices right now they
just sit in Master and that's it.
There have been no releases from the AOSP - all actual releases have
been: Google plans something -> Google develops something (1.0..2.0)
-> Google releases something to device manufacturers (let's call it
Google Android) -> Device manufacturers put it on devices -> Google
dumps some of the source code of Google Android to AOSP.

I'm sure I'm wrong in many aspects but that's just how AOSP looks to
me (a small end-user app developer), personally a bunch of source
files and nothing more - everything around Android is managed outside
of AOSP anyway so all AOSP is is just a git repo.

Tauno

[cdt...@gmail.com]

Definitely a ballsy move to ask for feedback. :)

So, yeah, having been a member of the Eclipse community for many
years, AOSP isn't really an open source project. I have no qualms with
that. Closed open source projects are quite common, even with GNU. But
it would be nice of the Android guys came clean on that and set
expectations. Mind you I like reading the comments here. If anything,
it's bringing out the passion people have for Android in the
community.

Personally, AOSP is a bit more than an git repo. I've been following
android-x86.org and without AOSP, that project wouldn't exist and we
wouldn't have the ability to experiment with Android on x86 platforms.
So there is good here.

Doug.

On Oct 27, 1:46 pm, tauntz <tau...@gmail.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that all the engineers working on AOSP have done
> a great job, so please don't take my following rant personally :)
>
> AFAIK the definition of AOSP is "Android Open Source Project", right?
> There's just one problem with it - it's not a project. It's just a
> million lines of source code dropped over the fence when Google feels
> it's time to do so.
> AOSP is open-source - and that's it - the source is open but
> everything else is managed in the dark by somebody (who actually
> manages this? Google? some OHA members?) and the public and the
> community have NO visibility over it. We just get access to the source
> code (occasionally) and that's all.
> Is there a roadmap for AOSP? No
> Is it visible what features will be added to next versions? No
> Is it visible when next versions are planned to be complete? No
> Are there public discussion about what should be in android in future
> versions? No, basically not (there was a discussion about how the
> bluetooth API should look like but that's basically it, isn't it?)
> Are there public UI/UE guidelines on how platform apps should look
> like so people could actually contribute in this part? No
> Is there any info about the development cycle (when's feature
> complete, when does testing start, who tests, for how long, etc)? No
> and so on and so on.. everything except the source files is totally
> closed as far as I can tell.
>

> Then there come news like thishttp://androidandme.com/2009/10/news/google-hand-picks-developers-for...

[Tom Gibara]

Okay, I know this is a bit late, but I haven't had time to respond until now.

First, I'd like to extend thanks to everyone who has contributed to the AOSP, and to you Jean-Baptiste in particular for your unstinting effort. It's really appreciated.

What attracted me to the AOSP was that, from its first public release, it evidently provided a well designed platform that enabled new classes of application to be developed. As a proponent of Free and Open Source software I was excited that the software would be open too.

I also think that Android's development has been well engineered (making capable and extensible software with what appear to be limited resources relative to the size of the task) and well strategized (as far as I can tell, supporting manufacturers to grow the market but keeping them "in line" with the Market has worked well).

The open source side of things has been less smooth, but has actually exceeded my expectations which were set low because of the obvious complexity involved. The code base is large and much of it is quite involved (but well written which helps a lot), this combined with the necessary quality controls, will naturally deter casual contributions. And the mobile telecoms industry seems labyrinthine to me so I'm not surprised that commitments to support collaboration (as successful open source project naturally require) appear to have been slow coming from other OHA members.

The Cyanogen 'incident' and the intermittent use of NDAs has not agitated me at all. Google is obviously managing a number of complex corporate relationships as it steers the project and I think open source contributors must make allowances for that. Though I do empathize and the wider open source community, and regard their attitudes as important, because Android won't establish itself as a viable open source platform.

In particular, I think that the opacity over forthcoming developments seriously reduces the comfort with I can sit down and spend time writing code for AOSP. I always have in the back of my mind "what if some Google engineer has already done this?". No one want to waste effort like that so I wonder if it puts-off anyone else*.

My biggest personal disappointment with AOSP has been not having (or making?) time to contribute to the project in any significant way, but I remain buoyed by the great progress the project appears to have made and am sanguine about 2010.

Tom.

* A thought occured to me as I typed that: if new features need to be secret, what about a public wishlist of things Google engineers want to see but haven't done yet and don't expect to have time for. Someone in the community might see an opportunity to contribute that they didn't know existed. Just a random thought.

2009/10/22 Jean-Baptiste Queru <j...@android.com>

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[Håkan Berg]

2009/11/5 Tom Gibara m...@tomgibara.com

... 

* A thought occured to me as I typed that: if new features need to be secret, what about a public wishlist of things Google engineers want to see but haven't done yet and don't expect to have time for. Someone in the community might see an opportunity to contribute that they didn't know existed. Just a random thought.

...

 

Hi Tom!

 

Your thought is not that random. In fact it describes my situation exactly. I wanted to participate, and have spent a lot of time trying to 'get in' to the 'project'. Reading blogs, docs, sourcecode, building different versions and made minor changes just to get the hang of it.

 

Now, even if I am experienced in both hw and sw and have spent many years in developing both, I am new to open source. So, I thought my lack of success in finding out what needed to be done, and how to do it right, was just because I was too ignorant in the open source area. But in act, it seems, I've been looking for a buglist etcetra that is actually not available, is that really so?

 

I have followed this mailing list for some time now, and it has been very informing, but still I do not know what to do.

 

I am very passionate about AOSP, and really want to start contributing. But if I do not know what needs to be done...

 

And I am talking about working in the platform. There are so many great application developers out there, that I gladly leave that job to them. I will stay in the platform.

 

Thank you all, this thread has made me feel that it is not just me being too stupid to find the structures. ;-)

Hakan Berg

 

[Chih-Wei]

Thank you for your honor of Android-x86.org.

As a creator of the Android-x86 project,
I really agree almost all points of tauntz.
Actually that's why we forked and created Android-x86.org.

We really hope to push the changes of x86 platform
into AOSP, but we can't (tried, but failed).

--
Chih-Wei
Android-x86 project
http://www.android-x86.org

[Disconnect]

..and a year later, its back to being closed source?

[Armando Ceniceros]

Is it? Last time i checked you could still repo sync and the code you downloaded was still free. That the code Google has in their servers hasn't been released under a free licence (and that's up to them,  since they really don't owe it to anybody to release their improvements), but that doesn't change that the code that currently constitutes aosp is still indeed free and open source.

On Nov 12, 2009 1:47 PM, "Disconnect" <dc.dis...@gmail.com> wrote:

..and a year later, its back to being closed source?

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Jean-Baptiste Queru <j...@android.com> wrote: > > A year ago, AOSP...

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[Disconnect]

Recently the Android project page at http://source.android.com/project was updated. Here's a nice diff (bold green lines were added, strikeout-red lines were removed.)  http://g1files.webs.com/AndroidProjectDiff.html is a lot of progress in a year.

And you left out the beginning of his post, so I'll re-quote it here:

A year ago, AOSP turned to life with a set of initial contributions
from Google and its partners, with millions of line of previously
unreleased code suddenly becoming available for the world to use and
enjoy.

So sure, you could say that that 1.0 code is AOSP and it will never be closed or changed (since it was publically released) but I don't think the question was "how did you feel a year ago".  Around 1.5, it was said that "most google android engineers" will be working in public whenever possible. (And it started to happen, in the brief interval between 1.5 and 1.6.) How'd that work out moving from 1.6 to 2.0?

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