So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't like
the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a while.
First, wait til an organic community developer group forms around your
product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS, let them
hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until they all go
tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a boneheaded
business decision.
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
> response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't like
> the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
> takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
> are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
> pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
> marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
> suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
> for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
> that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
> you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
This isn't too complicated.
Just because an organization has open source software doesn't mean
that their software is *ALL* open source or freely redistributable.
Inclusion of the closed source google apps in these hacker roms is
PIRACY, plain and simple, and Google *does* have the right to protect
their property.
The simple solution is to just NOT INCLUDE the google apps for which
the rom maker doesn't have a redistribution license.
Is there any particular reason why these roms MUST contain all those
closed source apps? Nope. If a user really wants them, nothing to stop
them from adding them in. As I understand it, htc's license (in
distributing official ADP1 system images with google apps) allows them
to license those google apps for installation to official ADP1 devices
regardless of the source of the overall system image, so owners of
ADP1 devices can LEGALLY use a mod rom and install the closed-source
google apps.
As for Google's motives here, It doesn't appear to be just the
redistribution of their closed source apps. It appears to be more
specifically related to the distribution of the PRERELEASE DONUT
MARKET APPLICATION.
In other words, if this cyanogen character didn't (a) somehow steal
the prerelease donut market app, and (b) include it with cyanogenmod
roms, it is most likely that Google would have simply IGNORED HIM as
has been their (apparent) policy in the past.
On Sep 24, 7:03 pm, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
> response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't like
> the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
> takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
> are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
> pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
> marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
> suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
> for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
> that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
> you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
Yes and no - fwiw I got a polite "heads up" way back when I was
distributing hardware-runnable versions of AOSP because of the various
proprietary bins. (No google -apps-, but the horrid mix of google and
HTC bits you need to get it to boot, make calls, etc.)
It isn't (directly) why I stopped, but I was basically told "btw, we
see this and yes it sucks that you can't do dev, but we may have to do
something about it at some future point."
That sort of bullshit is why I stopped taking an active role in
android dev - once the n900 comes out, I'm gonna give maemo another
try. (Remember way back when googs claimed nobody could make an OSS
phone? Before they changed to "well, WE won't make an OSS phone..")
I'm thinking it could be fun to port dalvik to run android apps as
native-ish (wine-style) maemo apps.
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:16 AM, lbcoder <lbco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Geeze,
> This isn't too complicated.
> Just because an organization has open source software doesn't mean
> that their software is *ALL* open source or freely redistributable.
> Inclusion of the closed source google apps in these hacker roms is
> PIRACY, plain and simple, and Google *does* have the right to protect
> their property.
> The simple solution is to just NOT INCLUDE the google apps for which
> the rom maker doesn't have a redistribution license.
> Is there any particular reason why these roms MUST contain all those
> closed source apps? Nope. If a user really wants them, nothing to stop
> them from adding them in. As I understand it, htc's license (in
> distributing official ADP1 system images with google apps) allows them
> to license those google apps for installation to official ADP1 devices
> regardless of the source of the overall system image, so owners of
> ADP1 devices can LEGALLY use a mod rom and install the closed-source
> google apps.
> As for Google's motives here, It doesn't appear to be just the
> redistribution of their closed source apps. It appears to be more
> specifically related to the distribution of the PRERELEASE DONUT
> MARKET APPLICATION.
> In other words, if this cyanogen character didn't (a) somehow steal
> the prerelease donut market app, and (b) include it with cyanogenmod
> roms, it is most likely that Google would have simply IGNORED HIM as
> has been their (apparent) policy in the past.
> On Sep 24, 7:03 pm, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
>> response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't like
>> the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
>> takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
>> are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
>> pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
>> marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
>> suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
>> for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
>> that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
>> entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
>> you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
Perhaps the issue is with Google's legal/corporate team having
contradicting views with Google's engineering team. I'm sure many
Google employees appreciate Cyanogen's work - BFS was integrated into
the kernel, for example, after Cyanogen implemented it himself.
On Sep 24, 11:08 pm, Josh Steiner <vitrio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a while.
> First, wait til an organic community developer group forms around your
> product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS, let them
> hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until they all go
> tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
> It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a boneheaded
> business decision.
> -Josh
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
> > response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't like
> > the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
> > takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
> > are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
> > pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
> > marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
> > suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
> > for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
> > that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> > entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
> > you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
your absolutely right, Google will give new meaning to "OPEN"
source...
feels good to see the recipe to this wonderful software..... would be
a shame if no one else can enjoy the food ...lol
On Sep 24, 10:08 pm, Josh Steiner <vitrio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a while.
> First, wait til an organic community developer group forms around your
> product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS, let them
> hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until they all go
> tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
> It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a boneheaded
> business decision.
> -Josh
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
> > response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't like
> > the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
> > takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
> > are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
> > pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
> > marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
> > suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
> > for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
> > that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> > entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
> > you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
you couldn't be more right, this is insane, the easy solution to this
would be to have all the apps on the market, then the CM builds can be
google app free, and we just go and DL them from the market, problem
solved...just add all the google apps to your market google, then no
need for nasty letters for no good reason....your suppose to be the
anti apple that doesn't hide behind the curtain and let's ppl do what
they do best, work as a community to make things better...but this is
not that idea...so yeah, i hope to see all the google apps on the
market so you can still have a biz becuase those 30,000 ppl on CM and
a lot of other on diff roms...they help spread buzz about upcoming
stuff...aka..new market...so, stop...collaborate and listen...to your
user base...
This is really just wrong. If you are that concerned about your image
and trade mark, open source the closed bits and let others
redistribute it under another name. There are other ways to go about
this, and this should not have been your first step.
On Sep 24, 10:08 pm, Josh Steiner <vitrio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a while.
> First, wait til an organic community developer group forms around your
> product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS, let them
> hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until they all go
> tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
> It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a boneheaded
> business decision.
> -Josh
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
> > response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't like
> > the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
> > takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
> > are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
> > pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
> > marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
> > suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
> > for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
> > that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> > entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
> > you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
They can't open source the market app due to the $$ nature of it. Sure
the transactions could be handled safely by an open source app, but
enforcing that they are installed to app-private cant be done.
On Sep 25, 12:17 am, williamthrilliam <will.e.carl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> This is really just wrong. If you are that concerned about your image
> and trade mark, open source the closed bits and let others
> redistribute it under another name. There are other ways to go about
> this, and this should not have been your first step.
> On Sep 24, 10:08 pm, Josh Steiner <vitrio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a while.
> > First, wait til an organic community developer group forms around your
> > product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS, let them
> > hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until they all go
> > tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
> > It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a boneheaded
> > business decision.
> > -Josh
> > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
> > > response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't like
> > > the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
> > > takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
> > > are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
> > > pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
> > > marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
> > > suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
> > > for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
> > > that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> > > entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
> > > you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
They don't have to open source it. All they have to do is extend a "not for
profit" right to distribute the binaries, like Adobe does with Acrobat. If
a handset manufacturer wants to distribute the apps, they still have to go
through the screening/certification process that Google rightly wants in
place, but community moders like Cyanogen would get a free license to
distribute, as long as they weren't charging for their mods.
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:52 AM, lbcoder <lbco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> They can't open source the market app due to the $$ nature of it. Sure
> the transactions could be handled safely by an open source app, but
> enforcing that they are installed to app-private cant be done.
> On Sep 25, 12:17 am, williamthrilliam <will.e.carl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > This is really just wrong. If you are that concerned about your image
> > and trade mark, open source the closed bits and let others
> > redistribute it under another name. There are other ways to go about
> > this, and this should not have been your first step.
> > > This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a while.
> > > First, wait til an organic community developer group forms around your
> > > product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS, let
> them
> > > hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until they
> all go
> > > tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
> > > It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a
> boneheaded
> > > business decision.
> > > -Josh
> > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
> > > > response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't
> like
> > > > the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
> > > > takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
> > > > are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
> > > > pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
> > > > marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
> > > > suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
> > > > for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
> > > > that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> > > > entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
> > > > you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
Are you certain that Google has the *legal right* to do that? Could
very well be some non-google components in it which come with a
license that google has to bend to.
For that matter, this whole thing could stem from this kind of IP
issue....
Google app contains X corp code under license terms restricting
redistribution and NDA agreement between google and X corp preventing
google from disclosing the nature of the license and the name of X
corp.... have you considered that? The assumption of evil has no
merit. And who knows where in the system the problem exists... might
it be within the payment processing system? Or could it be some
convoluted chunk of code?
On Sep 25, 3:20 pm, Josh Steiner <vitrio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> They don't have to open source it. All they have to do is extend a "not for
> profit" right to distribute the binaries, like Adobe does with Acrobat. If
> a handset manufacturer wants to distribute the apps, they still have to go
> through the screening/certification process that Google rightly wants in
> place, but community moders like Cyanogen would get a free license to
> distribute, as long as they weren't charging for their mods.
> -Josh
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:52 AM, lbcoder <lbco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > They can't open source the market app due to the $$ nature of it. Sure
> > the transactions could be handled safely by an open source app, but
> > enforcing that they are installed to app-private cant be done.
> > On Sep 25, 12:17 am, williamthrilliam <will.e.carl...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > This is really just wrong. If you are that concerned about your image
> > > and trade mark, open source the closed bits and let others
> > > redistribute it under another name. There are other ways to go about
> > > this, and this should not have been your first step.
> > > > This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a while.
> > > > First, wait til an organic community developer group forms around your
> > > > product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS, let
> > them
> > > > hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until they
> > all go
> > > > tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
> > > > It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a
> > boneheaded
> > > > business decision.
> > > > -Josh
> > > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
> > > > > response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't
> > like
> > > > > the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
> > > > > takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
> > > > > are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
> > > > > pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
> > > > > marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
> > > > > suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
> > > > > for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
> > > > > that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> > > > > entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
> > > > > you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
You are right, we can only really go on assumptions. They could be bound by
some other obligation to not make their binaries freely redistributable, but
seeing as how we can neither prove nor disprove that, I'm going to stick
with my assumptions and you can stick with yours.
This is evil, there is no other way to look at it. For over a year now
Google have been reaping the positive press of claiming Android to be an
Open Source platform, which it is demonstrably not. If you cannot build the
source and run it on any of the hardware that its intended to run on, the
platform is not open source. Android is officially as open source as the
iPhone OS, ie, it has major chunks of open source code in it, but the whole
is closed.
Many people have been willing to look the other way, because until last
night you could build the AOSP sources, roll it up with some binary blobs
and get a running distribution. It sure felt open source. This is now
dead.
With one single C&D they killed Android as a community open source
project. If they don't realize this, and rectify it quick, kiss the good
will good bye. As I'm sure Google, Inc. is aware, good will is a commodity
that can not easily be gained back once lost.
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:32 PM, lbcoder <lbco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you certain that Google has the *legal right* to do that? Could
> very well be some non-google components in it which come with a
> license that google has to bend to.
> For that matter, this whole thing could stem from this kind of IP
> issue....
> Google app contains X corp code under license terms restricting
> redistribution and NDA agreement between google and X corp preventing
> google from disclosing the nature of the license and the name of X
> corp.... have you considered that? The assumption of evil has no
> merit. And who knows where in the system the problem exists... might
> it be within the payment processing system? Or could it be some
> convoluted chunk of code?
> On Sep 25, 3:20 pm, Josh Steiner <vitrio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > They don't have to open source it. All they have to do is extend a "not
> for
> > profit" right to distribute the binaries, like Adobe does with Acrobat.
> If
> > a handset manufacturer wants to distribute the apps, they still have to
> go
> > through the screening/certification process that Google rightly wants in
> > place, but community moders like Cyanogen would get a free license to
> > distribute, as long as they weren't charging for their mods.
> > -Josh
> > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:52 AM, lbcoder <lbco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > They can't open source the market app due to the $$ nature of it. Sure
> > > the transactions could be handled safely by an open source app, but
> > > enforcing that they are installed to app-private cant be done.
> > > On Sep 25, 12:17 am, williamthrilliam <will.e.carl...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > This is really just wrong. If you are that concerned about your
> image
> > > > and trade mark, open source the closed bits and let others
> > > > redistribute it under another name. There are other ways to go about
> > > > this, and this should not have been your first step.
> > > > > This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a
> while.
> > > > > First, wait til an organic community developer group forms around
> your
> > > > > product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS,
> let
> > > them
> > > > > hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until
> they
> > > all go
> > > > > tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
> > > > > It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a
> > > boneheaded
> > > > > business decision.
> > > > > -Josh
> > > > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android,
> the
> > > > > > response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't
> > > like
> > > > > > the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy'
> Someone
> > > > > > takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users
> who
> > > > > > are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we
> have to
> > > > > > pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having
> the
> > > > > > marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I
> highly
> > > > > > suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have
> PAID
> > > > > > for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google
> apps
> > > > > > that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> > > > > > entitled to use it with any build of android we choose.
> Otherwise,
> > > > > > you might want to try taking user requests a little more
> seriously.
> You are right, we can only really go on assumptions. They could be bound by
> some other obligation to not make their binaries freely redistributable, but
> seeing as how we can neither prove nor disprove that, I'm going to stick
> with my assumptions and you can stick with yours.
> This is evil, there is no other way to look at it. For over a year now
> Google have been reaping the positive press of claiming Android to be an
> Open Source platform, which it is demonstrably not. If you cannot build the
> source and run it on any of the hardware that its intended to run on, the
> platform is not open source. Android is officially as open source as the
> iPhone OS, ie, it has major chunks of open source code in it, but the whole
> is closed.
> Many people have been willing to look the other way, because until last
> night you could build the AOSP sources, roll it up with some binary blobs
> and get a running distribution. It sure felt open source. This is now
> dead.
> With one single C&D they killed Android as a community open source
> project. If they don't realize this, and rectify it quick, kiss the good
> will good bye. As I'm sure Google, Inc. is aware, good will is a commodity
> that can not easily be gained back once lost.
> -Josh
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:32 PM, lbcoder <lbco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Are you certain that Google has the *legal right* to do that? Could
> > very well be some non-google components in it which come with a
> > license that google has to bend to.
> > For that matter, this whole thing could stem from this kind of IP
> > issue....
> > Google app contains X corp code under license terms restricting
> > redistribution and NDA agreement between google and X corp preventing
> > google from disclosing the nature of the license and the name of X
> > corp.... have you considered that? The assumption of evil has no
> > merit. And who knows where in the system the problem exists... might
> > it be within the payment processing system? Or could it be some
> > convoluted chunk of code?
> > On Sep 25, 3:20 pm, Josh Steiner <vitrio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > They don't have to open source it. All they have to do is extend a "not
> > for
> > > profit" right to distribute the binaries, like Adobe does with Acrobat.
> > If
> > > a handset manufacturer wants to distribute the apps, they still have to
> > go
> > > through the screening/certification process that Google rightly wants in
> > > place, but community moders like Cyanogen would get a free license to
> > > distribute, as long as they weren't charging for their mods.
> > > -Josh
> > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:52 AM, lbcoder <lbco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > They can't open source the market app due to the $$ nature of it. Sure
> > > > the transactions could be handled safely by an open source app, but
> > > > enforcing that they are installed to app-private cant be done.
> > > > On Sep 25, 12:17 am, williamthrilliam <will.e.carl...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > This is really just wrong. If you are that concerned about your
> > image
> > > > > and trade mark, open source the closed bits and let others
> > > > > redistribute it under another name. There are other ways to go about
> > > > > this, and this should not have been your first step.
> > > > > > This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a
> > while.
> > > > > > First, wait til an organic community developer group forms around
> > your
> > > > > > product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS,
> > let
> > > > them
> > > > > > hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until
> > they
> > > > all go
> > > > > > tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
> > > > > > It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a
> > > > boneheaded
> > > > > > business decision.
> > > > > > -Josh
> > > > > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android,
> > the
> > > > > > > response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't
> > > > like
> > > > > > > the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy'
> > Someone
> > > > > > > takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users
> > who
> > > > > > > are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we
> > have to
> > > > > > > pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having
> > the
> > > > > > > marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I
> > highly
> > > > > > > suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have
> > PAID
> > > > > > > for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google
> > apps
> > > > > > > that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> > > > > > > entitled to use it with any build of android we choose.
> > Otherwise,
> > > > > > > you might want to try taking user requests a little more
> > seriously.- Hide quoted text -
One of the reasons we allow the AndAppStore client to be freely
distributed is that its' not the distribution that pays for the
servers, etc. it's the on-site and in-app advertising, so free
distribution is an option. We haven't open sourced the app because it
would allow developers to produce an app which uses our services but
generates no revenue for us, and hence we'd not cover our running costs.
The decision to relicenses will probably be significantly affected by
the business model used to cover the costs of servers and not just by
a desire to do so.
======
Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the
company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House,
152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK.
The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's
subsidiaries.
> They don't have to open source it. All they have to do is extend a
> "not for profit" right to distribute the binaries, like Adobe does
> with Acrobat. If a handset manufacturer wants to distribute the
> apps, they still have to go through the screening/certification
> process that Google rightly wants in place, but community moders
> like Cyanogen would get a free license to distribute, as long as
> they weren't charging for their mods.
> -Josh
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:52 AM, lbcoder <lbco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> They can't open source the market app due to the $$ nature of it. Sure
> the transactions could be handled safely by an open source app, but
> enforcing that they are installed to app-private cant be done.
> On Sep 25, 12:17 am, williamthrilliam <will.e.carl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > This is really just wrong. If you are that concerned about your
> image
> > and trade mark, open source the closed bits and let others
> > redistribute it under another name. There are other ways to go
> about
> > this, and this should not have been your first step.
> > > This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a
> while.
> > > First, wait til an organic community developer group forms
> around your
> > > product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS,
> let them
> > > hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until
> they all go
> > > tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
> > > It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a
> boneheaded
> > > business decision.
> > > -Josh
> > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for
> android, the
> > > > response has been something along the lines of 'well if you
> don't like
> > > > the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' > Someone
> > > > takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of
> users who
> > > > are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we
> have to
> > > > pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not
> having the
> > > > marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I
> highly
> > > > suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who
> have PAID
> > > > for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their
> google apps
> > > > that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> > > > entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. > Otherwise,
> > > > you might want to try taking user requests a little more
> seriously.
the decision to stop cyano is the worst decision google can take. Her
own developers cant get android so fast and smooth as the xda-devs can
do - and what did google? They stop it.
Cyanogen is over. Google should give him a crontract that he can do
his mod but he have to take the original apks without change it (maps,
mail and so on) - but no, why should google be so clever.
My privat decision is to let my old G1 die and that will be my last
android platform.
Google steal all the news (much of them), steal boosk (scanning
without permissions) and so on and so on but now they have her pants
full of something because there is a developer and he is so much
better as her own developers - for free. Google, think about what you
will be.
I see the money aspect of it as you need to cover costs, but when the
ROM does not deter $ from Google or generate $ for the person making
it then I see no right to fight this.
Google will still make its money on browsing clicks.
The Gmail app is just a widget like interface in a way. I get no adds
through it.
It seems like a dumb move to tell the whole world, "Hey we made this
completely open source software," then turn around threaten someone
who has made your "open source" a bit more efficient.
Lets be honest.
The hardware SUCKS on these phone. They are running on limited RAM and
2 yr old cpus.
Their design....well the Cliq n Hero seem to be best, but myTouch and
G1 are not pretty.
And up to now, most if not all lag.
The only reason people have and will shell out $200+ for these phones
is on the promise that it is open sourced.
The promise that you as the buyer of hardware and software could do
what you will and make the phone operate the way you want.
Is Cyanogen's ROM cutting into your profits?
If it is...please state how. (Facts and figures) Since it seems the
money will be made in the clicks and market.
Secondly, not every phone can use Android. Since the drivers are
limited, and that's where you guys come in.
People shell out $200+ to buy your software, "with Google."
Manufacturers and Providers have seen the impact of your software and
will pay manufacturers to implement your software on phones and your
networks.
The thing is, if Cyanogen can produce a better ROM than you guys why
not offer him a job?
His ROM allows you to do two things you guys can't seem to make
happen.
1. Make the system more responsive and lag free.
2. One is able to store programs in an SD card and not be limited BY
THE 1980's 188mb (after ROM) drive space.
Which by the way, MS Mobile 6.0 can let the user do.
I'm a Google fan and have written articles giving props to Docs and
Google Voice, but this cease notice is really dumb and in a way going
against the rebel reputation Google has carved for itself.
On Sep 26, 2:20 am, Al Sutton <a...@funkyandroid.com> wrote:
> One of the reasons we allow the AndAppStore client to be freely
> distributed is that its' not the distribution that pays for the
> servers, etc. it's the on-site and in-app advertising, so free
> distribution is an option. We haven't open sourced the app because it
> would allow developers to produce an app which uses our services but
> generates no revenue for us, and hence we'd not cover our running costs.
> The decision to relicenses will probably be significantly affected by
> the business model used to cover the costs of servers and not just by
> a desire to do so.
> ======
> Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the
> company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House,
> 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK.
> The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not
> necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's
> subsidiaries.
> On 25 Sep 2009, at 20:20, Josh Steiner wrote:
> > They don't have to open source it. All they have to do is extend a
> > "not for profit" right to distribute the binaries, like Adobe does
> > with Acrobat. If a handset manufacturer wants to distribute the
> > apps, they still have to go through the screening/certification
> > process that Google rightly wants in place, but community moders
> > like Cyanogen would get a free license to distribute, as long as
> > they weren't charging for their mods.
> > -Josh
> > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:52 AM, lbcoder <lbco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > They can't open source the market app due to the $$ nature of it. Sure
> > the transactions could be handled safely by an open source app, but
> > enforcing that they are installed to app-private cant be done.
> > On Sep 25, 12:17 am, williamthrilliam <will.e.carl...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > This is really just wrong. If you are that concerned about your
> > image
> > > and trade mark, open source the closed bits and let others
> > > redistribute it under another name. There are other ways to go
> > about
> > > this, and this should not have been your first step.
> > > > This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a
> > while.
> > > > First, wait til an organic community developer group forms
> > around your
> > > > product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS,
> > let them
> > > > hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until
> > they all go
> > > > tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
> > > > It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a
> > boneheaded
> > > > business decision.
> > > > -Josh
> > > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for
> > android, the
> > > > > response has been something along the lines of 'well if you
> > don't like
> > > > > the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy'
> > Someone
> > > > > takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of
> > users who
> > > > > are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we
> > have to
> > > > > pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not
> > having the
> > > > > marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I
> > highly
> > > > > suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who
> > have PAID
> > > > > for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their
> > google apps
> > > > > that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> > > > > entitled to use it with any build of android we choose.
> > Otherwise,
> > > > > you might want to try taking user requests a little more
> > seriously.
This user is very, very correct, everyone I know with an Android
device is planning to get rid of it asap and get an iPhone or WinMo
phone because of this, this isn't Open Source google, this is "It's
open.. as long as it suits our profit margins", you're turning into
Apple and I can guarantee I'll be telling each and every person I know
how hypocritical you are about being the good company who isn't evil,
unlike MS, at least they let us put custom roms on phones with WinMo.
On Sep 25, 9:03 am, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
> response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't like
> the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
> takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
> are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
> pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
> marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
> suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
> for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
> that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
> you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
Well said. This is firing a bullet right into your own toes. No one
is disputing Google's legal right to do this. It's about how
fundamentally stupid it is to piss off your most ardent and
technically savvy supporters. Unless Google reverses course here, the
next few plays are pretty straightforward-- (1) cyanogen and other
developers move to another platform (sucking air, advocacy, and
momentum from Android's adoption) or (2) a serious effort gets
underway to replace the proprietary .apks/apis with true open-source
replacements-- a map app that uses openstreetmap (with turn-by-turn),
a better IMAP client for gmail, an alternative market app like
andappstore, etc. Eventually the IP-unencumbered alternatives will be
as good or better than Google's offerings, and what will Google have
gained? This is how it's worked with open-source since the beginning
of time.
It is strategically unwise for Google to publicly advocate FOSS
development, build an entire platform on FOSS codebase, promote FOSS
philosophy to win market share and mindshare, then take a massive dump
all over their burgeoning development community and fan base. (and if
you don't think that's what's happened, read the comments on xda-
developers, android blogs, or most of the Google apps in the Market)
W
On Sep 24, 8:08 pm, Josh Steiner <vitrio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is one of the stupidest moves I've seen a company do in a while.
> First, wait til an organic community developer group forms around your
> product, wait til they release improved version of your free OS, let them
> hype it to death for you... then C&D them out of existence until they all go
> tinker with Maemo or Linmo (or iPhone or Web OS) devices.
> It doesn't matter if Google, Inc are legally correct, this is a boneheaded
> business decision.
> -Josh
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
> > response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't like
> > the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
> > takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
> > are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
> > pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
> > marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
> > suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
> > for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
> > that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
> > entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
> > you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
Unfortunately, Market app is closed source and can't be distributed.
Most of the core google apps that ship on a stock G1 or part of 3rd
party roms aren't on the market. Basically you could compile the rom
image, ship the rom image, install the rom image and be left with a
very basic, but working, phone. No Gmail, no Search, no apps from
the market, no market itself in fact and no Gmaps either. They're not
just apk files either from what I hear, they're quite involved little
beasties to compile and need to be thunked in to a rom to fire up.
Yes, Cynogen could keep releasing without the Google apps as could
anyone else, but honestly, would anyone want to use those ROM's and
not be able to have the apps and functionality they got the phone for
in the first place? Some yes. But most probably not and yeah, I'm in
the no group.
Google just obliterated the current rom scene.
On Sep 25, 9:31 am, Giantcandy <pychobj2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> you couldn't be more right, this is insane, the easy solution to this
> would be to have all the apps on the market, then the CM builds can be
> google app free, and we just go and DL them from the market, problem
> solved...just add all the google apps to your market google, then no
> need for nasty letters for no good reason....your suppose to be the
> anti apple that doesn't hide behind the curtain and let's ppl do what
> they do best, work as a community to make things better...but this is
> not that idea...so yeah, i hope to see all the google apps on the
> market so you can still have a biz becuase those 30,000 ppl on CM and
> a lot of other on diff roms...they help spread buzz about upcoming
> stuff...aka..new market...so, stop...collaborate and listen...to your
> user base...
No good can come from this. Was it really necessary to go to a C&D
letter as a first move? I thought it was Apple that treated its users
with contempt and didn't communicate with them. Talk to the guy,
hammer out some sort of agreement that would allow him to distribute
the apps or at worst keep doing what he is but with a caveat against
including the apps and encouraging users to download them from the
Market.
I can't fully see Google's point of view on this. I can appreciate
they want to protect their property and rights but as far as I'm
aware, no current developer of custom ROMs attempts to charge for
their work nor do they try to claim the apps as their work. They're
included because it's an expected part of the Android experience and
in some cases (Google Mail, YouTube) aren't available as a download
via the Market.
If it's purely these apps then say so. I dare say that many people
would be unhappy but if they can obtain them legally from Google it's
just a slight inconvenience rather than a road block. If it's a lot
of background stuff too such as the ability to sign in to sync with
Google services and the Market app itself then it's effectively
killing the modding scene and all the work it's done.
I really, really hope it isn't that and is about the main apps because
I doubt I'm the only one that would seriously consider dropping
Android as soon as my contract ends. I got my G1 for the integration
with online stuff, the ability to customise and mod it but I couldn't
do it without the help of the many developers. I don't care how hard
it is or what needs to be done, Google you need to find a way to
resolve this that won't kill the modding scene and seriously tarnish
your reputation. Do no harm? This is a case of do MOST harm because
it will kill a huge portion of the hard work done for free to help
improve Android by enthusiast developers.
Its useless to build a cool house (android) and give permission for
others to freely copy and improve the house and give it to others, but
then say "you can't give away the furnace (gmail), plumbing (market),
or electric system (gmaps) with this house because its our personal
cool furnace, plumbing, and electric, or we'll stomp on you".
Sure the "community" could come up with replacements for Gmail,
Market, and GMaps, but I bet the Google lawyers would figure out how
to stomp on those as well, probably from an intellectual property,
look-and-feel, or other angle.
You know, if its "open source" then it should all be open source.
I am extremely disappointed with Google's handling of this. Of course
I agree with them that someone not Google shouldn't be able to give
away those apps for free, but who's paying for them here? Aren't they
already distributed with android? How can something "open" contain
"proprietary" stuff that can't be distributed? Then the whole thing
isn't open, period. If one thing has this legal anchor, the whole
thing does.
Then Google should stop pimping it as "open", "freely distributed",
etc. Even if they're not actually saying that, that's sure the
perception "out there", and perception is fact. Google got all the
good PR from being behind android, making it sound like a fresh new
thing that's better than the iPod OS or Windows cause "anyone can do
anything with android, look how cool Google is".
What cracks me up is that from 10000 feet up the solution to this
whole thing seems so damn simple. Make GMail, GMaps, an upgraded
Market (sorry the one that's part of the original distro and up to
4.0.4 of CyanogenMod is a sad excuse of an app for even an entry level
coder, much sadder for a giant "innovator" such as Google. My 11 year
old daughter even laughs at it.), and whatever else app that Google
has its corporate panties in such a bunch about such a fit about, and
make them separately installable from the "open source" part of
android. Then its up to ROM devs such as Cyanogen to make sure their
ROM can run the latest version of these apps, and Google can keep
their precious proprietary apps tightly hidden away in their ivory
towers, and the community can modify the operating system itself to
make it actually good above and beyond the version that Google
released.
Shoot, me myself only have use for Google Maps and the Market (and
only for those apps that I can only get via the market, other than
that I stay away from that "thing"), so Cyanogen and those that think
outside of the Google box, please continue to give me a highly
optimized, fast, capable, root-accessible, save-apps-to-SD-built-in,
tetherable, and most of all, actually-usable-above-and-beyond-the-base-
android-that-almost-made-me-punt-and-go-iPhone-that-came-with-my-G1.
That's open source. Use the brains, ingenuity, and skills of the
community to make what you did better.
Don't do this stupid.
All I know is if I have to go back to my old ROM I'll drop android
cause in its former guise it's not a viable OS for anything remotely
device-challenging.
> PIRACY, plain and simple, and Google *does* have the right to protect
> their property.
Since everyone using cyanogenmod has legally obtained an android
phone, I don't see how google loses out letting the binaries be
included. They already got the money for them. However they lose out
on customers if they keep at this. Seems pretty backwards to me.
> The simple solution is to just NOT INCLUDE the google apps for which
> the rom maker doesn't have a redistribution license.
> Is there any particular reason why these roms MUST contain all those
> closed source apps? Nope.
Actually yeah, the phone can't even boot without proprietary code.
> As for Google's motives here, It doesn't appear to be just the
> redistribution of their closed source apps.
Well, that's what the official statement google released says the
motive is.. and the reason why was 'it hurts us,' a re-statement of
the position, not an explanation. Then they had the nerve to say 'i
hope this clears things up' which it of course doesn't. So far it
appears they're doing it because they can.
> It appears to be more
> specifically related to the distribution of the PRERELEASE DONUT
> MARKET APPLICATION.
Which again, will be an update provided to people who've already paid
for an android phone. Who loses out?
> roms, it is most likely that Google would have simply IGNORED HIM as
> has been their (apparent) policy in the past.
Actually this was in the works at google even before the donut market
app was used.
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Cap'n'Crunk <capncr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> PIRACY, plain and simple, and Google *does* have the right to protect >> their property.
> Since everyone using cyanogenmod has legally obtained an android > phone, I don't see how google loses out letting the binaries be > included. They already got the money for them. However they lose out > on customers if they keep at this. Seems pretty backwards to me.
Er, you can prove that nobody bought a non-google-experience htc magic and installed cyanongen onto it..?
Right.
>> The simple solution is to just NOT INCLUDE the google apps for which >> the rom maker doesn't have a redistribution license. >> Is there any particular reason why these roms MUST contain all those >> closed source apps? Nope.
> Actually yeah, the phone can't even boot without proprietary code.
The bad news is, thats htc's code and they aren't part of all this work to make it better.
>> As for Google's motives here, It doesn't appear to be just the >> redistribution of their closed source apps.
> Well, that's what the official statement google released says the > motive is.. and the reason why was 'it hurts us,' a re-statement of > the position, not an explanation. Then they had the nerve to say 'i > hope this clears things up' which it of course doesn't. So far it > appears they're doing it because they can.
They were pretty clear, if a little wordy and soft. (Dianne later said much more about it.) They need "incentive" to get carriers to pay for the google experience. That incentive is android market. (Which should correspondingly be called "Google market" or "Google Android market" .. but meh.)
Lets compare the stock adp1 image with iphone + free google apps: - gmail, with push. (oops, iphone/bb/etc can do multiple accounts. Advantage: iphone) - android market (well, each vendor has 1 or more markets these days. call it even, for this comparison) - google maps with gps (identical, slight advnatage android due to mapview) - google calander integration (identical) - google talk (identical except you have to run it on android periodically to fix market bugs)
Did I miss anything? The "google platform" at its maximum google-ness does less than the 3rd party devices with freely-downloadable apps. (Even most j2me phones!) They need all the help they can get to force the device vendors to build devices.
>> It appears to be more >> specifically related to the distribution of the PRERELEASE DONUT >> MARKET APPLICATION.
> Which again, will be an update provided to people who've already paid > for an android phone. Who loses out?
Straw, meet camel. And that -particular- client will not be an update. Nor is it released. ("Someday" your daughter will be an adult in college. That doesn't mean you want her chugging beer at 6 years old.)
>> roms, it is most likely that Google would have simply IGNORED HIM as >> has been their (apparent) policy in the past.
> Actually this was in the works at google even before the donut market > app was used.
So you think Apple is better? On Sep 26, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Joe Greene <joeg...@gmail.com> wrote:
This user is very, very correct, everyone I know with an Android
device is planning to get rid of it asap and get an iPhone or WinMo
phone because of this, this isn't Open Source google, this is "It's
open.. as long as it suits our profit margins", you're turning into
Apple and I can guarantee I'll be telling each and every person I know
how hypocritical you are about being the good company who isn't evil,
unlike MS, at least they let us put custom roms on phones withPeri Gilpin WinMo.
On Sep 25, 9:03 am, schwiz <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
So everytime I have seen someone ask about apps2sd for android, the
response has been something along the lines of 'well if you don't like
the space on the phone modify it yourself if its that easy' Someone
takes this to heart and does it for free for thousands of users who
are already supporting google and you shut them down? Now we have to
pick between having space for apps on our phone -OR- not having the
marketplace on our phone anymore so it doesn't even matter? I highly
suggest if you are going to C&D cyanogen to give users who have PAID
for a 'powered by google' android device to backup their google apps
that they paid for. We have paid for the software we should be
entitled to use it with any build of android we choose. Otherwise,
you might want to try taking user requests a little more seriously.
Do you even know what a C&D is? It is a letter that google's lawyers
wrote to cyanogen asking him politely to stop distributing their
closed source apps. It is not a court order! It is just a letter
asking for compliance. They have NOT taken legal action against
anyone.
How would YOU start if not by writing a letter to ask? Telepathy?
On Sep 25, 10:25 pm, PaulR <kitteh....@gmail.com> wrote:
> No good can come from this. Was it really necessary to go to a C&D
> letter as a first move? I thought it was Apple that treated its users
> with contempt and didn't communicate with them. Talk to the guy,
> hammer out some sort of agreement that would allow him to distribute
> the apps or at worst keep doing what he is but with a caveat against
> including the apps and encouraging users to download them from the
> Market.
> I can't fully see Google's point of view on this. I can appreciate
> they want to protect their property and rights but as far as I'm
> aware, no current developer of custom ROMs attempts to charge for
> their work nor do they try to claim the apps as their work. They're
> included because it's an expected part of the Android experience and
> in some cases (Google Mail, YouTube) aren't available as a download
> via the Market.
> If it's purely these apps then say so. I dare say that many people
> would be unhappy but if they can obtain them legally from Google it's
> just a slight inconvenience rather than a road block. If it's a lot
> of background stuff too such as the ability to sign in to sync with
> Google services and the Market app itself then it's effectively
> killing the modding scene and all the work it's done.
> I really, really hope it isn't that and is about the main apps because
> I doubt I'm the only one that would seriously consider dropping
> Android as soon as my contract ends. I got my G1 for the integration
> with online stuff, the ability to customise and mod it but I couldn't
> do it without the help of the many developers. I don't care how hard
> it is or what needs to be done, Google you need to find a way to
> resolve this that won't kill the modding scene and seriously tarnish
> your reputation. Do no harm? This is a case of do MOST harm because
> it will kill a huge portion of the hard work done for free to help
> improve Android by enthusiast developers.
