Our beloved Zen Master Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz, III
flaming bug
guru, Zen Master Rama:
"He considered his sperm to be liquid enlightenment and we should be
very honored to have it in our bodies," says Nancy (not her real name).
"I'm embarrassed to admit that I fell to that. I sure thought highly of
myself until I began meeting all of the other women whom he had sex
with." Nancy, who says the sex was "not very good," recalls one time
when Lenz summoned three of his girlfriends together late one night.
"He told us that we had psychically approached him with an interesting
proposition, although none of us could successfully guess what it was.
He told us that we all wanted to have sex with him together, but he
wanted to do it one at a time. So two of us would clean his house while
one of us would `do' him. We all took turns."
"...Then, in one of the guest bedrooms, police spied a fully dressed
woman lying on a bed, unconscious. Police tried to rouse her, but she
was incoherent. By her side was a picture of a man and another of a
dog. In another room were two dogs, stiff but breathing.
...Police called in divers who, 10 hours later, pulled a man's body
from the water. He was dressed in a suit and tie. Around his neck was a
dog collar with a dangling rabies vaccination tag....
...The man was Frederick Lenz III, better known to the world as the New
Age guru Zen Master Rama; the woman, Brinn Lacey, one of his devoted
followers. Two nights before, in a suicide pact, the pair had drugged
the dogs with phenobarbital, downed fistfuls of Valium (at least 150
pills by Lenz alone) and stepped off the pier. By some miracle, Lacey
and the dogs survived; Lenz did not. Lacey wrote in a note the police
found by her side: "We all tried police go too the other woorld last
night, anti only Rama made it..."
=======
We'll miss old Fred, he really was an amazing charismatic character,
like Chogyam Trungpa.
calde...@yahoo.com
Common Lies of the Phony World of Mystics
"There is no one there to tell you you are enlightened." U.G.
Krishnamurti
The ancient religions of Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism,
Christianity, and Islam, all started as campfire religions. The
initial spark of the religion may have been a remarkable human being
having an insight or a vision, but the religions themselves were formed
much later by unenlightened disciples of the original teacher. All of
the ancient religious myths, which strict fundamentalists accept as
fact, began with disciples sitting around a fire at night and telling
stories about the glory days of their long dead spiritual heroes.
Imagine the world before the printing press and electricity. In
ancient times nights were long, dark, and potentially very scary, with
no television or radio for entertainment. Huddled around a fire,
afraid of thieves, wild animals, disease, or starvation, story tellers
would gain recognition by fabricating heroic tales of perfect saintly
beings in order to entertain and comfort. Over the centuries religious
myths became wildly grandiose and fact was lost in a sea of invention.
Modern day gurus often try to market themselves as being
reincarnations of ancient religious super-heroes, or at least being in
a direct lineage of some infallible ancient knowledge. As in The
Wizard of Oz, if you pull away the curtain of falsehood surrounding
many gurus you will find an ordinary human being trying to make a
dishonest living off the sincere spiritual aspirations of their
followers. Below are some of the common big lies told by religious
mystics to watch out for. Hold on to your wallet and your sanity and
be aware that it is easiest to pick your pocket as you are being hugged
by a guru selling cosmic love and compassion.
Lie #1) "Surrender to me because I am enlightened and thus more
intelligent and wiser than you."
The Eastern esoteric definition of 'enlightenment' has nothing to
do with intelligence or wisdom. The Western definition of
'enlightenment' is intellectual and artistic, as in the "enlightened
age" of the great artists and thinkers. The Eastern esoteric meaning
of the word has nothing to do with mind, talent, art, or wisdom. The
true occult definition means to have no boundaries, thus you feel the
infinite emptiness of the cosmic Void.
There is no wisdom in the Void: no art, no love, no hate, no
compassion, and no good or evil. The Void simply is! All of the
emotional and intellectual content is in the mind, and the
enlightenment is far beyond the ordinary mental level. Enlightenment
is the consciousness of raw nature, formless and empty of definable
content.
Superconsciousness has subjective experiential benefit in that it
makes you feel truly magnificent. Unfortunately, cosmic consciousness
has no functional benefit and does not increase IQ or practical wisdom
(see The Ridiculous Teachings of Wrong Way Rajneesh). Intelligence and
pragmatic wisdom come from a complex interaction of genetics,
education, and life experience. The opinion of the "enlightened ones"
on politics, science, or economics is of no inherently greater value
than the opinion of an unenlightened person of equal education and
genetically derived higher brain function. Thus, the undemocratic
theocracies of the enlightened elite have always failed disastrously in
the past and will always fail in the future. The violent history of
planet earth proves beyond doubt that religion and politics should
never be mixed.
People who reach the Void can become corrupt, but the corruption
is in their human minds and brains, not in the total Void itself. The
total Void is not human and thus has no mind or potential for
corruption. That is why Zen Buddhists say you should live in a state
of "no-mind." A more accurate term would be no-thought, as the human
mind-brain has other basic autonomic survival functions that continue
even if the conscious thought process stops. Interrupting the constant
stream of thoughts is enough, however, to allow cosmic consciousness to
enter your body. You do not enter it. It is more accurate to say that
the ultimate consciousness, the Atman, enters you. You can never own
the Atman or put your personal brand on it, but it can save you from
the pettiness and misery inherent to the limited human mind.
The world of gurus and religion is a world of big business,
politics, and lust for power. The more disciples a guru attracts, the
more power and income they can generate. Teachers often say "stick
with one guru" (themselves) because when a guru loses a disciple he
loses a potential source of power and income. As the dishonest
propaganda surrounding the teacher grows more fantastic, the quality of
the guru's disciples always becomes more and more immature and corrupt.
People who grow up mentally know there are no perfect human beings.
Children can be fooled by incredible claims of divine infallibility.
Adults who have lived a long life with alertness cannot be hoodwinked
by such old tricks.
Lie #2) "I am enlightened and I have no ego."
Some humans do become 'enlightened,' but no living human being is
without ego. If you lost your ego you would physically die within two
weeks, because you could not eat, drink, or have any activity other
than basic involuntary movements, such as breathing and heart beat. It
is the same neurological mechanism that talks, walks, eats, and
accomplishes tasks that we also call the 'ego.' You can have a
centralized ego, as most people do, or you can have a decentralized
ego, as enlightened people attain. In the end, as far as behavior is
concerned, it makes little difference.
We feel a centralized ego vividly, so its suffering becomes a
tremendous burden to us. Some may go on a spiritual path to get rid of
ego, but in truth we can only push ego to the periphery of the mind.
The human brain is vast, with many hiding places in its neural web
where the ego function can hide without notice.
21st century science knows that the brain is highly adaptive. If
one portion of the brain is damaged, it is often possible for another
area of the brain to adapt itself to take over the lost function. If a
centralized ego comes under fire from the brilliant light of
meditation, it can simply shift its location to an area of the brain
unaffected by the torch of consciousness. In fact, a hidden back-up
peripheral ego center already exists, and this is because the ego
function is essential to human survival. There is no such thing as
total self-knowledge of the human brain. Even fully enlightened human
beings have blind spots where they cannot see.
Just because you do not feel an ego does not mean that you do not
have an ego! The East deluded itself into thinking ego could be
destroyed, but the entire East was wrong. The East has never been good
at combining subjective feeling with objective provable fact, and thus
the East was not the birthplace of real science and the scientific
method.
"Part of the guru is "enlightened," wise, knowledgeable, and he's
mentally living in this enlightened part of himself. He believes that
he *is* that part exclusively, ignoring the other parts which have been
cut off and dissociated from his conscious awareness. He becomes
identified with the guru aspect of himself exclusively. The other
parts, however, do not disappear. They still exist, but are simply
disowned and regulated to the unconscious." - Charles Morrison
Objectively, by any measurement, enlightened people are as
egocentric as anyone else. Quite often they become even more egoistic
if they allow themselves to be put on a pedestal. Totally enlightened
humans have become corrupt, self-indulgent liars, murders, and thieves.
Do not accept the big lie of the egoless master. They do not exist
now and they have never existed in the past. There was no "Lord
Buddha," only an enlightened Siddhartha Gautama. There was no "Lord
Jesus," only a carpenter who made extravagant claims. The only way to
be egoless is to physically die and not come back into this world. If
you are here, you have an ego. Do not fool yourself or allow yourself
to be fooled by others.
Lie/scam #3) "Do not judge the great masters. They are on such a high
level of consciousness that they cannot be measured by normal standards
of good behavior."
This is a convenient old lie used by gurus to cover up lie #1 and
lie #2 and to turn naive disciples into mental eunuchs, thus making
them more useful as slaves. Of course gurus do not want to be judged
by normal standards, because that will destroy their business. The
corrupt spiritual teacher always wants a blank check. If he seduces
your wife, it is for your own spiritual benefit. If he robs your bank
account, it is a test of your state of spiritual surrender. If the
guru murders someone, it is for the victim's own good and the guru
should not be prosecuted. When spiritual teachers start acting like
pharaohs, "enlightened" or not, they have crossed a line into the world
of criminals.
Lie #4) "Read my new book and it will help you find enlightenment."
The German and Austrian Nazis of the 1930s were wrong to burn
books. Books are a great way to learn about history, science, and art.
Unfortunately books can also be an obstacle when it comes to matters
of existential truth. Books often turn the search for truth into dogma
and give people the false impression that by reading them you can know
something about meditation without actually meditating yourself. In my
opinion, the world would be better off if most of the books written by
the famous mystics were used for fuel to keep us all warm at night.
Meditation is basic good-clean-fun. It can make you feel filled
with light and highly euphoric, but it will never turn you into a
pedantic reservoir of borrowed intellectual knowledge. Reading and
religion are both polar opposites of meditation. In meditation you
clear yourself of thoughts and become more detached. Reading and
religion fill your head with other people's thoughts, which are often
more idiotic than your own thoughts, and you become attached to dead
teachers, dead philosophies, dead shrines, and dead rituals.
Meditation, by contrast, is thrilling real life, right here and right
now.
Meditation, like gardening, is a relatively simple affair that
requires honest effort and patience. It is not a highly complex
intellectual task, as the study of DNA or astrophysics. You can read
all you need to know about meditation in just one hour. A few simple
pointers are enough to get students meditating and on a path to growing
awareness. You cannot read your way to enlightenment, but you can read
your way to the loony-bin. Books stimulate the thinking function of
the brain, making your mind spew out more thoughts at an even faster
pace. Meditation means transcending the conflict and limitations of
the world of thought and entering the naturally serene state of
no-thought.
Christopher Calder
http://home.att.net/~meditation/ - home page
Julian
flaming bug wrote:
> I thought you'd be interested in reading some quotes about our beloved
> guru, Zen Master Rama:
With all due respect mate, but you're wrong.
I think, speaking for my self at least, we've heard just
about enough, maybe more, about that particular corpse.
Put it this way, I've been loitering on usenet on and off
for about 10 years and I have yet to notice anyone seeking
knowledge of him and what with the www it's not exactly
a struggle to suss him out.
I can't imagine anything sufficiently heinous to make any odds
to his present inmates and I wouldn't like to suggest that newbies
aren't capable of making their own investigations,
let the bugger RIP.
Never forget there is something worse than being dissed
and slandered and that is to be ignored entirely.
ramaq...@yahoo.com
media story on the internet is dharma. I don't remember the buddha
telling his students to follow rumor as a guide for the spiritual
truth.
The communist chinese used this tactic against the dali lama and
Tibetan Buddhism...simply use rumor and gossip to trash a religious
group. Just as the communist
chinese won't tolerate tibetan buddhism, flaming bug won't tolerate my
Zen Master.
Flaming bug must beleive the media about the iraq war, about anything
the media or the internet tell him. He must watch FOX News. I guess
he/she/it knows all about Rama also...just from his divine vision.
Flaming bug is like a hollywood groupie that reads rumor magazines and
thinks he personally knows the movie stars. He "knows" my teacher is
"bad". What an asshole! He/she/it/flaming bug has never met my
teacher! And the funny thing is that this behavior being passed off as
Buddhist!
Padme Sambahava had sex with a princess in a graveyard, killed a man
with a rock. Naropa tackled a bride at a wedding procession...Flaming
is really anti-enlightenment and probably has attacked tantric teachers
in other lives. What an adharmic pathetic fool. I feel sorry for
he/she/it.
Flaming bug is one of those westerners that think buddhism is about
attacking othe spiritual paths you don't agree with.
Om Mani Padme Hum
Have a good day flaming!
ramaq...@yahoo.com
about Judiasm, that's why he killed the jews.
Julian, you are a poser...Zen Master Rama sold millions of books. He
made number 11 on the NY Times Best Seller List...OK...so if we go by
who people care about, which is unamerican, you would be removed from
the internet not Zen Master Rama.
Julian is another regular Troll who just exolts his own ego and attacks
anyone that is new or upstages him. What an attention-needing baby!
ramaq...@yahoo.com
have a list of good and bad buddhists. It seems Calderh is just
another Nazi that wants a list of people to censor. Calderth thinks
that this longer abstract formula is more valid, thus him/her/it's list
of valid buddhist teachers is the truth.
It is Calderh who is faith-based and fanatical...
Read the Bill of Rights Calderh; you can't prove that someone else's
spiritual beleifs are wrong; that is nazi-like and theocratic.
"Hiel Calderh"
S.o.B.
Lee Dillion
Dan Aykroyd: Hello. I'm "Weekend Update" Station Manager Dan Aykroyd.
This week, the Shah of Iran declared martial law, in an attempt to put
a stop to the violent rioting which has paralyzed his country. The Shah
is the subject of tonight's "Point/Counterpoint". Jane will take the
Anti-Shah Point, and I will take the Pro-Shah Counterpoint. Jane?
Jane Curtin: Dan, I know exactly what you're going to say: "Jane, you
ignorant slut! The Shah is our friend, he sent us oil during the 70's
re-embargo. He's a fighter against Communism." Maybe so, Dan, but what
happened to the human rights you scream about every time a Saranski
gets sentenced to some Soviet jail? Why is it wrong to torture a
dissident and freezing Siberian Gulag, but okay to wire a leftist
student's genitals in a baking Tehran dungeon? I only hope that someday
someone wires your genitals, Dan. Then you'll be singing a different
tune!
Dan Aykroyd: Jane, you poor, misguided scrag! Sure, the Shah's a jerk,
but he's all we've got! Just look at the map. To the north, the Soviet
Union; to the east and west, Afghanistan and Iraq. Both leftist radical
states; and in the south, the Persian Gulf. Any idiot can see that Iran
would be a prized stepping stone in an eventual Soviet takeover of the
world. And when that happens, Jane, those Cossacks will be coming over
here with their broom handle, and we'll see how you'll feel then! Of
course, you'd probably love it, you ignorant slut!
Jane Curtin: That's the news. Good night, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
jazzym...@yahoo.com
don't have even a basic understanding of Buddhism or Enlightenment.
You have twisted the words of the Buddha to say "No one can be more
Enlightened than me". You are scared of Enlightenment, scared of your
own Power, scared of Truth, and scared of anything that rocks your
little boat. Instead of crapping on the authentic teachings of the
Buddhas, you should learn a little humility. Why don't you read The
Dhammapada and learn a little about "real" Buddhism, before you open
your mouth and the doorways to lower-worlds, which is all you seem
interested in.
S.o.B.
heads & shitting down throats for something so mild as "I don't care."
So I returned in kind.
I'm plonking them now, but so long as they keep posting I'll keep
reposting the cultwatch links.
Y'know? Fair & balanced.... :-)
--S.o.B.
S.o.B.
Either these guys are really alt.syntax.tactical trolls or they are
psychotically in dire need of a backdoor fix of liquid enlightenment.
They should go fuck his corpse.
--S.o.B.
jazzym...@yahoo.com
all you have done is vomited all over yourself and the pristine
lineages of the dharma. You are only too happy to quote from a slimy,
malignant, magazine article as if it was Truth, but you have nothing to
say about www.ramaquotes.com. You seem to be very jealous that Rama
had sex with women, which points to your own repressed homosexual
tendencies. Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz, like Chogyam Trungpa, taught the
holy Kagyu lineages of Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa and Milarepa. This
lineage has brought many sincere seekers to Enlightenment. You may do
better to spend your time with a psychotherapist rather than on a chat
room.
Scion of Bitch
ramaq...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Julian, you stupid asshole, I guess Hitler could say that no one cared
> about Judiasm, that's why he killed the jews.
>
> Julian, you are a poser...Zen Master Rama sold millions of books. He
> made number 11 on the NY Times Best Seller List...
Why does he need more cash then?
"Follow the money."
Deep Throat.
Messer Xin
(in message <1130538899....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):
> You seem to be very jealous that Rama
> had sex with women, which points to your own repressed homosexual
> tendencies.
I'm really trying hard to see how being jealous of someone having sex with
women indicates repressed homosexual tendencies -- unless you're female, of
course.
---Messer Xin
--
"The Bible is pretty straightforward and easy to understand,
so long as you go into it knowing what you want it to say.
---Daryl the Canuckistani
Messer Xin
(in message <1130538899....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):
> Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz, like Chogyam Trungpa, taught the
> holy Kagyu lineages of Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa and Milarepa. This
> lineage has brought many sincere seekers to Enlightenment.
So who was Lenz's guru?
For that matter, which Zen teacher in which lineage gave him premission to
teach as a Zen teacher?
Julian
Messer Xin wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:02:04 -0400, jazzym...@yahoo.com wrote
> (in message <1130538899....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):
>
> > Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz, like Chogyam Trungpa, taught the
> > holy Kagyu lineages of Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa and Milarepa. This
> > lineage has brought many sincere seekers to Enlightenment.
>
> So who was Lenz's guru?
>
> For that matter, which Zen teacher in which lineage gave him premission to
> teach as a Zen teacher?
Dharmatup©.
http://order.tupperware.com/coe/app/tup_party.consultant_finder
Evelyn Ruut
news:1130539355....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bashing the regulars here is a sure way to gain friends and influence
people.....NOT!
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
ramaq...@yahoo.com
teachers, his critique above is foolish...for he has no buddhist
authority to trash American buddhists....what a Nazi, he should be
waving Mao's red book.
ramaq...@yahoo.com
new ideas and new posters. Throwing stones at spiritual groups you
don't like makes you an ugly animal.
Go away regular; I have the freedom of religion and speech. Cry in a
corner, this is a Buddhist group and my teacher is a best-selling
Buddhist author.
You remind me of a Nazi Propagandist.
ramaq...@yahoo.com
Another tip for you. When you call someone else's spiritual teacher a
nutt, you might not get a good reaction. So if you attack jews
tommorow, don't pay victim like you have with me.
"Hiel Evelyn!"
Lee Dillion
The Buddh-Lite Lineage of Universal KindaZen Harmony granted Xin just
such authority last year in a ceremony attended by All Who Matter.
Julian
Messer Xin
(in message <11m5q6c...@corp.supernews.com>):
Boy, I held that lineage so lightly I didn't know I had it! I especially
didn't know I needed any authority to ask:
So who was Lenz's guru?
For that matter, which Zen teacher in which lineage gave him permission to
teach as a Zen teacher?
Every evasion, every bit of name-calling, every taunt confirms a little more
for me that Lenz was an outright spiritual fraud. It's a matter of record
that he was a disciple of Sri Chinmoy's, but his knowledge of Buddhism, as
displayed by his quotes, is quite distorted.
---Messer Xin
--
What I love about Buddhism is the way in which flippant, banal
responses may contain so much value if I take them at the experiential
and not at the philosophical level. ---Lee Dillion
Tang Huyen
Messer Xin wrote:
> Lee Dillion:
>
> > The Buddh-Lite Lineage of Universal KindaZen
> > Harmony granted Xin just such authority last
> > year in a ceremony attended by All Who Matter.
>
> Boy, I held that lineage so lightly I didn't know I
> had it! I especially didn't know I needed any
> authority to ask:
>
> So who was Lenz's guru?
>
> For that matter, which Zen teacher in which lineage
> gave him permission to teach as a Zen teacher?
>
> Every evasion, every bit of name-calling, every
> taunt confirms a little more for me that Lenz was an
> outright spiritual fraud. It's a matter of record that
> he was a disciple of Sri Chinmoy's, but his
> knowledge of Buddhism, as displayed by his quotes,
> is quite distorted.
So who was the Buddha's gurus?
For that matter, which teacher in which lineage
gave him permission to teach as a Buddhist teacher?
It's a matter of record that he was a failed Jaina monk
who when on the verge of Jaina sainthood by means
of death by self-starvation and self-mortification
chickened out and took milk and food. When after
his awakening he approached his five former Jaina
fellow monks (who would become his first disciples
and together with him the first six Buddhist monks) to
try to win them over to his newly-found message,
their first reaction (presumaby in horror) was that he
had fallen from grace by taking food.
Chinese Chan invented a lineage of transmission
from the Buddha on down, patched together from
different transliterations of mostly similar lists of
Indian Buddhism, where the same Indian monks
showed up multiple times under different
transliterations (which looked like different names
and therefore different people to the Chinese). Was
that (basically a big lie) authoritative authorisation?
To the present day Zen priests in Japan still recite \
by rote that list, as proof of the authorisation for
their version of Buddhism.
Glorious, all of it, eh?
Tang Huyen
Ned Ludd
<ramaq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1130554984.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
OK, Doofus, none of the quotes you have listed in your "koans"
link are koans. Not one. Not even close. In fact the closest
thing to a koan that has come up here - and it's only a fair to
middling one - is:
Why did master Rama die wearing a dog collar?
Ned
Hollywood Lee
I'm guessing because the cat collar was too small.
Auntie Meridian
> Evelyn regulars like you are just Nazi trolls; you people discourage
> new ideas and new posters. Throwing stones at spiritual groups you
> don't like makes you an ugly animal.
Yes, the regulars here are imbeciles who derail serious threads with
joking whenever they get a chance (when they're not too busy sniping at
each other). The most beneficial thing they could do for Buddhism would
be to leave the internet and all other public forums forever.
Messer Xin
(in message <1130555165.0...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>):
> Go away regular;
Eat oatmeal!
> I have the freedom of religion and speech.
Wonderful! So do we!
> Cry in a
> corner,
and pray in a closet!
> this is a Buddhist group and my teacher is a best-selling
> Buddhist author.
Actually, he's a best-selling New Age author.
> You remind me of a Nazi Propagandist.
Bet you don't know many real nazis.
---Messer Xin
--
Yer just tryin ta get into sig lines yu little weasel.
-- cryptocupcake, South Ninavut
Lazarhat
news:11m709c...@corp.supernews.com:
> Ned Ludd wrote:
>> <ramaq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1130554984.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>Since no Buddhist linage has given Xin the authority to judge
>>>american teachers, his critique above is foolish...for he has
>>>no buddhist authority to trash American buddhists....what a
>>>Nazi, he should be waving Mao's red book.
>>>
How about 'Xin' gives himself the authority to discern snake oil salesmen
when he sees 'em. And then to take right action to run 'em out of town,
like all the others who have come before.
>>
>>
>> OK, Doofus, none of the quotes you have listed in your "koans"
>> link are koans. Not one. Not even close. In fact the closest
>> thing to a koan that has come up here - and it's only a fair to
>> middling one - is:
>>
>> Why did master Rama die wearing a dog collar?
>
> I'm guessing because the cat collar was too small.
Because Rama's master was a St. Bernard?
Ole front!
stumper
Good point.
That's why peer review is more reliable.
Do you do any koan practices?
--
~Stumper
stumper
Due to its degenerative nature,
it should be treated as a "private case"
instead of a public case.
How about this "private case" of his:
"Everything I do is a koan"?
BTW,
Private cases are short self-serving statements
used by charismatic cult leaders
to confuse their followers
into blind idolization of themselves.
[impromptu dictionary of stumper]
--
~Stumper
stumper
Not bad.
But, the answer should be more graphic.
Hint: think licking.
Do not reply to this, please.
BTW,
It's a private case; not a public case.
Private cases are not for public consumption.
--
~Stumper
stumper
You got it.
But, not in public, please.
--
~Stumper
Ned Ludd
"stumper" <stumper@new%vessel.com> wrote in message
news:5vKdnT63K-C...@ptd.net...
>
>> OK, Doofus, none of the quotes you have listed in your "koans"
>> link are koans. Not one. Not even close. In fact the closest
>> thing to a koan that has come up here - and it's only a fair to
>> middling one - is:
>>
>> Why did master Rama die wearing a dog collar?
>>
>> Ned
>
> Due to its degenerative nature,
> it should be treated as a "private case"
> instead of a public case.
> How about this "private case" of his:
> "Everything I do is a koan"?
> BTW,
> Private cases are short self-serving statements
> used by charismatic cult leaders
> to confuse their followers
> into blind idolization of themselves.
> [impromptu dictionary of stumper]
>
But then, why DID master Rama die wearing a dog collar?
I'm at a complete loss here - the only thing that comes to
mind are two lines of Alexander Pope, which were inscribed
on the collar of the pet dog of the King of England:
I am his Highness' dog at Kew;
Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?
- A. Pope
ramaq...@yahoo.com
read the middle length discourses when the Buddha approved of disciples
commiting suicide.
You have a brain-washed western view of suicide. My teacher was very
sick, and you are a sick man for attacking him.
Here is a link discussing suicide, since you don't know Buddhism:
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma/suicide.html
Learn some religious tolerance Ned Ludd. Do you attack Moses and
Christ in other newsgroups?
What an asshole.
ramaq...@yahoo.com
a snake-oil salesman. I am sure Mao would have used that on the Dali
Lama to justify his invasion of Tibet. I am sure the Roman and Jews
used that logic against Jesus to justify killing him.
You're in good company, asshole.
Here is quote on religious tolerance. These people below would not
reccomend you calling other spiritual teachers "snake-oil"salesman:
Tolerance implies no lack of commitment to one's own beliefs. Rather
it condemns the oppression or persecution of others. - John F. Kennedy
Laws alone cannot secure freedom of expression; in order that every man
present his views without penalty there must be a spirit of tolerance
in the entire population. - Albert Einstein
Lee=Intolerant Nazi Room Troll
Julian
ramaquo...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Ned you don't know anything about Buddhism. If you did you would have
> read the middle length discourses when the Buddha approved of disciples
> commiting suicide.
Fukkin' get on with it then.
Ned Ludd
<ramaq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1130609209.3...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Hey you hydrophobia-slobbering mad dog, I didn't say anything
about suicide, yea or nay.
But I strongly doubt Buddha told any disciples to kill themselves,
for the simple reason that Buddha never recommended the destruction
of any dharma. (It being unnecessary once the fundamental nature
of the dharma is seen.)
Now answer the goddamned question, you fat-mouthed troll!:
stumper
Lighten up.
Even the greatest can die comically.
The Buddha died from food poisoning.
Shouldn't he know better than that?
I suspect being so defensive is not the way
your teacher would have handled the situation.
He would have seduced the wives of critics.
Am I right?
Then, the real question is
how you do that on the Usenet.
--
~Stumper
Julian
ps. Did the Buddha approve of recruiting suicide surrogates?
Daryl
>
>I suspect being so defensive is not the way
>your teacher would have handled the situation.
>He would have seduced the wives of critics.
>Am I right?
>
>Then, the real question is
>how you do that on the Usenet.
I've got my notepad ready...
--
Daryl
stumper
Lighten up.
He could have wanted to see how it feels
to be choked by the collar.
He also could have wanted to know
what will happen to his followers
if he dies comically.
If that's sick,
just remember that
even the greatest can get sick.
What bothers me that
he seems to have failed to teach that
anger cannot conquer anger.
--
~Stumper
curl...@yahoo.com
best-selling author. You are the intolerant room troll. How dare you
demand anything, of me! You're attacking me is simply hate-filled
intolerance; its not worth my time.
Ned, you ignorant slut, this is your strategy. To attack new ideas and
posters in this room so you can look intelligent. Well sorry asshole,
I'm going to post quotations of one of the most famous american
buddhist teachers around...
I am sure I upset your little crib baby. So hold on to your rattle and
study Buddhism and Suicide....you obviously don't know buddhism at all.
Well asshole, I'm going to be posting quotes of a best-selling Buddhist
author. Keep attacking him. I could show you Jewish newsgroups that
get hate-filled Nazi posts. Your not new Ned, you are just a
frightened controlled human with a failed life.
Its funny asshole, Ned - when Rama students go to Tibet or India and
show monks his material, they are excited, or at least have the
etiquette to not trash our beleifs.
All of you room trolls of ABSFG could learn something from real
Buddhist monks. They realize the danger of violently attacking someone
else's religion....Room trolls like Ned the Nazi don't realize
this...he must have a low IQ.
Ned is contributing to facsism and the mood of fear that Bush and
Cheney also thrive on, that Hitler and the McCarthists also loved.
I encourage new people to post in this room and ignore the Troll Nazi's
like Ned the Intolerant.
Go to hell asshole, I will never discuss my teacher with you. It would
be like a Rabbi talking about judaism to Hitler.
"Hiel Ned!"
Too bad we have freedom of religion in this country Neddy boy...eat it
up! I can follow any teacher I want!
You are like a wanta-be grand iquisitor, so shove your hate-filled
questions up your ass; this is America not a theorcratic state run by
Ned.
Julian
No one believes you, further, you are dragging
your master into deeper disrepute.
Out of gratitude to your master
and to salvage his reputation,
you'd be far better off acting
admirably.
Hollywood Lee
2 or 3 at a time, from what I hear. Truly a guru. Truly a teacher.
--
Lee, your name is trendy, go to Hollywood and be a phony there.
Hollywood Lee
> I am here to post Buddhist quotes of my Zen Master. My Zen Master is a
> best-selling author. You are the intolerant room troll. How dare you
> demand anything, of me! You're attacking me is simply hate-filled
> intolerance; its not worth my time.
>
> Ned, you ignorant slut, this is your strategy. To attack new ideas and
> posters in this room so you can look intelligent. Well sorry asshole,
> I'm going to post quotations of one of the most famous american
> buddhist teachers around...
We hope you do. And the ignorant sluts that populate these parts will
put you and your master through the wringer of Buddhist usenet. For if
you cannot survive here, what will the world do to you but grind you up
and spit you out into a river, dead, wearing your dog's collar as a
symbol of your skill as a Buddhist?
Tough, even mean-spirited, perhaps. But as true as anything I know to
be true.
curl...@yahoo.com
room trolls in ABSFG to be called what you are:
intolerant and nazi-like.
You morons play the victim game. You violently attack other spiritual
beleifs, claim that a best selling buddhist author's quotes in a
buddhist room is spam, and then complain when his students fight back.
You are like four-year olds in sandbox who are under the delusion that
they "own" the sandbox. You all want to punch out new posters and
then complain if they fight back...Julian you define wimp.
You are the one insulting yourself "Julian Love God". Don't pretend to
be nice. Ive read your posts; you are a nasty hate-filled being that
hides his hate with poor humor.
There is only one possible outcome of this. You assholes are going to
learn religious tolerance. you are also going to learn that your
victim game is getting old....
I am content to post links to my Zen Master...thats it. You guys
opened up the discussion. So don' t complain it Julian...when the
debate doesn't go your way. I would be just as happy if no threads
appeared to a simple USEFUL link that i provided. Look in the miror
nazi.
Your're the room troll Julian; you guys just won't let me post quotes
of a best-selling author. You have to control everything in ABSFG...
I know you can't get laid, Julian Love God, but don't take out your
sexual frustrations on me or groups you don't agree with. You remind
me of J Edgar Hoover. Do you wear a dress after you throw your stones?
S.o.B.
Actually he's serving his master as best he can, which is AFAIAC just
fine by me.
ZMR's reputation preceded these various (and quite obvious) sockpuppets
of churlishwade / jizzymic / ramanoodle, and - giving him the benefit
of the doubt - this sad sack for a troll has done nothing to dispel or
explain the sullied reputation his group suffers.
I'm still trying to decide whether he is brazenly trolling the reef for
slow fish who can be pulled into his net, using some kind of flamewar
recruiting method as a crucible (sorry for the mixed metaphors).
I mean, hell, I could make a better propagandist for the extant
Rama-groups, as in fact the current Rama groups do - keeping
appearances normal and low-key, pulling in the tantric / ecstatic
traffic.
IMO our nemesis of the moment is just a perfect reflection of what ZMR
wrought upon himself and others.
--S.o.B.
curl...@yahoo.com
I am fighting as an American, not a student of any teacher, who wants
to maintan free speech, assembly and religion in the anti-free speech,
intolerant climate of ABSFG.
Last spring I went the Buddhist route and ignored the Nazi-like hatred.
But now I want to teach the ABSFG room trolls that attacking others
beleifs sometimes leads to arguments....the assholes in this room are
too stupid to realize that religious intolerance and hatred is a major
cause of wars.
Thank god the room-trolls here have no real power to start a war!
They are wose than Bush. At least Bush fights for oil, these room
trolls fight for hatred. I love how the ABSFG room trolls play victim
when someone DARES to fight back....what un-American scum.
Here is the quote of Rama's I follow regarding the room trolls of
ABSFG:
"Turning the other cheek is not always the answer. In a certain
situation on a certain day for a certain person, it's correct.
Sometimes a good roundhouse kick on a certain day in a certain
situation for a certain person is correct." - Zen Master Rama
This is all the nazi-like intollerant trolls of this room deserve.
Long live the bill of rights!
S.o.B.
Ned Ludd wrote:
> Now answer the goddamned question, you fat-mouthed troll!:
>
> Why did master Rama die wearing a dog collar?
Ooh! Ooh! I know!
His leash broke!
No... wait... gimme a minute...
To get to the other side?
Hmm... Damn... it's right at the tip of my tongue!
--S.o.B.
S.o.B.
Hollywood Lee wrote:
> We hope you do. And the ignorant sluts
Well, this ng does inslut the bubbha
> that populate these parts will
> put you and your master through the wringer of Buddhist usenet. For if
> you cannot survive here, what will the world do to you but grind you up
> and spit you out into a river, dead, wearing your dog's collar as a
> symbol of your skill as a Buddhist?
I wish. But looks what 2 tin cans does for the CoS.
--S.o.B.
Nichiren
curl...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Jullian shut up...You have also trashed my teacher. Its time for you
> room trolls in ABSFG to be called what you are:
>
> intolerant and nazi-like.
>
> You morons play the victim game. You violently attack other spiritual
> beleifs, claim that a best selling buddhist author's quotes in a
> buddhist room is spam, and then complain when his students fight back.
> You are like four-year olds in sandbox who are under the delusion that
> they "own" the sandbox. You all want to punch out new posters and
> then complain if they fight back...Julian you define wimp.
>
> You are the one insulting yourself "Julian Love God". Don't pretend to
> be nice. Ive read your posts; you are a nasty hate-filled being that
> hides his hate with poor humor.
>
> There is only one possible outcome of this. You assholes are going to
> learn religious tolerance. you are also going to learn that your
> victim game is getting old....
>
> I am content to post links to my Zen Master...thats it. You guys
> opened up the discussion. So don' t complain it Julian...when the
> debate doesn't go your way. I would be just as happy if no threads
> appeared to a simple USEFUL link that i provided. Look in the miror
> nazi.
>
> Your're the room troll Julian; you guys just won't let me post quotes
> of a best-selling author.
Wow! Julian edits USENET.
I'm glad to hear that my teachings confer such powers. Thanks.
>You have to control everything in ABSFG...
Not so, it still has vermin issues.
> I know you can't get laid, Julian Love God, but don't take out your
> sexual frustrations on me or groups you don't agree with. You remind
> me of J Edgar Hoover. Do you wear a dress after you throw your stones?
Jeez, what a 'Tard! Everyone knows Julian is a TRB inmate.
S.o.B.
curl...@yahoo.com wrote:
> the assholes in this room
Just a simple point... nobody here has even yet called you an asshole.
I did say you suck, and I did suggest you bend over. But never an
asshole.
IAC, you started waggin' your pecker around first. Simple statements of
"Not interested" were enuf to provoke you.
I'm here to throw your mud back in your face.
You are a blustering, vituperating, ill-mannered, foul-mouthed, craven
poltroon who is as intolerant, unregenerate, belligerent, vitriolic as
you have accused everyone else here of being (excluding myself because
I have intentionally jumped into the gutter with you - that's my
special purpose).
Everyone has shown an amazing amount of forebearance on your behalf. I
think it's because they actually give you the benefit of the doubt that
you aren't in fact an insidiously crafty cult-leader. I, myself, have
my doubts. Your methods are nakedly aggressive and I can see where this
kind of tradecraft can lead.
So I'm calling your bluff, bubbah.
> are
> too stupid to realize that religious intolerance and hatred is a major
> cause of wars.
Yes, cloak yourself in some modicum of piety. That's very convincing.
To fools.
> Thank god the room-trolls here have no real power to start a war!
> They are wose than Bush. At least Bush fights for oil, these room
> trolls fight for hatred. I love how the ABSFG room trolls play victim
> when someone DARES to fight back....what un-American scum.
Ahh, playing the leftist newage card. Good ploy. Doesn't work here.
> Here is the quote of Rama's I follow regarding the room trolls of
> ABSFG:
>
> "Turning the other cheek is not always the answer. In a certain
> situation on a certain day for a certain person, it's correct.
> Sometimes a good roundhouse kick on a certain day in a certain
> situation for a certain person is correct." - Zen Master Rama
On that count I'd agree with the bastid. WHich is why I'm here pounding
on you some more.
> This is all the nazi-like intollerant trolls of this room deserve.
Seems a fitting comment coming from you.
> Long live the bill of rights!
Here we are, practicing what we preach.
--S.o.B.
Wilson
"S.o.B." <sciono...@yahoo.com> wrote ...
As far as what curly and company are attempting to accomplish, I
may not be a Buddhist, but I know a troll when I see one.
Make sure you bite down hard when you take that hook ;-)
Tom K
<curl...@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1130611719.3...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
spamnuts like this. If the above is supposed to show the posters highly
entlightend state, resulting from the teachings of a zenmaster, I for one
can do without. Why waste anymore time on this fire 'n' brimstone simpelton?
A day or two just for the exercise must be enough.
So I suggest the good old fashioned collective killfiling of the source.
That'll clear the air in this ng of all this nonsens, that really is beneath
the regulars here, that I, as mostly just lurking, have come to appriciate
as goodhumored observers of the absurdities of life as we know it, and then
some.
Hollywood Lee
Good advice. But the yard work is done and the movie doesn't start for
another hour. Besides, we haven't had this good of a "frick and frack"
routine since Ardie and BuddhistMonk (Kennie Wheeler) were spammin with
their Dark Zen stuff. Notice how CurlySue is the abusive one, while
JizzyMike and other lenzites are the oh so reasonable ones. Believe me,
it will get better.
Ch'an Fu
"Hang out with those wierdos, and
you'll get to be just like them!"
-- mom
Daryl
>
>Ned Ludd wrote:
>> <ramaq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1130609209.3...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>Ned you don't know anything about Buddhism. If you did you would
>>>have read the middle length discourses when the Buddha approved
>>>of disciples commiting suicide.
>>>You have a brain-washed western view of suicide. My teacher was
>>>very sick, and you are a sick man for attacking him.
>>>Here is a link discussing suicide, since you don't know Buddhism:
>>>http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma/suicide.html
>>>Learn some religious tolerance Ned Ludd. Do you attack Moses and
>>>Christ in other newsgroups?
>>>What an asshole.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hey you hydrophobia-slobbering mad dog, I didn't say anything
>> about suicide, yea or nay.
>>
>> But I strongly doubt Buddha told any disciples to kill themselves,
>> for the simple reason that Buddha never recommended the destruction
>> of any dharma. (It being unnecessary once the fundamental nature
>> of the dharma is seen.)
>>
>> Now answer the goddamned question, you fat-mouthed troll!:
>>
>> Why did master Rama die wearing a dog collar?
>>
>> Ned
>>
>>
>
>
>Lighten up.
Yeah Ned, after 11 years of you being heavy, I have had
enough. Lighten up or I'll be forced to do something
we're both going to regret.
--
Daryl
jazzym...@yahoo.com
committing suicide in spiritual literature. In the Middle Length
Discourses, a very sick monk commits suicide with the Buddha's
blessings. In another case (I forget the source) a monk had completely
finished his earthly karma and wanted to move to a higher birth. In
most cases, suicide is deplorable, however, it a few cases, it follows
the dharma and allows the practitioner to move on in the direction they
need to. In Rama's case, he had been very sick for many years.
Ch'an Fu
Oh, sweet jesus, PLEASE don't
ressurrect that goddam dog!
Ch'an Fu
Daryl
wrote:
>
>You are like a wanta-be grand iquisitor, so shove your hate-filled
>questions up your ass; this is America not a theorcratic state run by
>Ned.
America....hah!
--
Daryl
Ch'an Fu
>
> Messer Xin wrote:
>
>
>>Lee Dillion:
>>
>>
>>>The Buddh-Lite Lineage of Universal KindaZen
>>>Harmony granted Xin just such authority last
>>>year in a ceremony attended by All Who Matter.
>>
>>Boy, I held that lineage so lightly I didn't know I
>>had it! I especially didn't know I needed any
>>authority to ask:
>>
>>So who was Lenz's guru?
>>
>>For that matter, which Zen teacher in which lineage
>>gave him permission to teach as a Zen teacher?
>>
>>Every evasion, every bit of name-calling, every
>>taunt confirms a little more for me that Lenz was an
>>outright spiritual fraud. It's a matter of record that
>>he was a disciple of Sri Chinmoy's, but his
>>knowledge of Buddhism, as displayed by his quotes,
>>is quite distorted.
>
>
> So who was the Buddha's gurus?
>
> For that matter, which teacher in which lineage
> gave him permission to teach as a Buddhist teacher?
>
> It's a matter of record that he was a failed Jaina monk
> who when on the verge of Jaina sainthood by means
> of death by self-starvation and self-mortification
> chickened out and took milk and food. When after
> his awakening he approached his five former Jaina
> fellow monks (who would become his first disciples
> and together with him the first six Buddhist monks) to
> try to win them over to his newly-found message,
> their first reaction (presumaby in horror) was that he
> had fallen from grace by taking food.
>
> Chinese Chan invented a lineage of transmission
> from the Buddha on down, patched together from
> different transliterations of mostly similar lists of
> Indian Buddhism, where the same Indian monks
> showed up multiple times under different
> transliterations (which looked like different names
> and therefore different people to the Chinese). Was
> that (basically a big lie) authoritative authorisation?
> To the present day Zen priests in Japan still recite
> by rote that list, as proof of the authorisation for
> their version of Buddhism.
>
> Glorious, all of it, eh?
Silly, all of it, eh?
Do we have any examples of so-called
"awakening" as a result of sniffing
farts in temples? It seems the east coast
is wondering about the scents of maple
sugar mysteriously wafting around.
curl...@yahoo.com
So says the nazi to the jew expressing his religion or so says
Hollywood Ned. Ned you are stupid Nazi, we have freedom of speech,
religion and assembly in this country.
I think your new screen name should be "Munich Lee".
Ch'an Fu
Canada....hah!
Ch'an Fu
> "grind you up and spit you out into a river, dead"
>
> So says the nazi to the jew expressing his religion or so says
> Hollywood Ned. Ned you are stupid Nazi, we have freedom of speech,
> religion and assembly in this country.
So you (whatshisname - lenz?)
guys are all really jewish?
Munich Lee
Don't say I'm not cooperative
jazzym...@yahoo.com
other people - which is itself ad-dharmic. People who piss on other
teachers they know nothing about should be exposed for the phonies they
are, especially in a Buddhist chat room. I have publicly taught
Buddhism for about 10 years and have never, ever, experienced the
hatred, snobbishness, and brazen stupidity that I have witnessed in
ABSFG. If you derive benefit from the teachings you should support
them. All real practioners support the teachings of other authentic
teachers. In addition, real practitioners don't attack other
traditions - that is the etiquette.
ramaq...@yahoo.com
All I have done is post a Buddhist link on a buddhist newsgroup. Its
funny how I would love to post a simple link without these nasty
responses yet the room trolls call me a troll. That is absurd since I
would prefer no nasty comments posted below my link suggestion. Yet
the poser "victims" here want to attack my teacher yet refuse me the
right to respond in kind.
This is nazi-ism folks...just look at the Hollywood Lee's of this room,
and you can see how nazi-ism starts. Munich Lee has rewritten history.
It was the room trolls that attacked a link to a best-selling Buddhist
author. I am content to post links with no responses but the room
trolls won't have that. They want to attack my spiritual teacher and
want me to sit there and smile...as if they were nazi storm-troopers
going into a helpless village.
Well that isn't going to happen you babies...grow up. When you attack
someone else's religion, the response isn't always pleasent.
"Hiel Hollywood Lee"
Julian
ramaq...@yahoo.com
get a negative response. I am proud to call you what you are, an
asshole.
Just another point, all i want to do is post links; these little
sandbox fights that you trolls love are simply your idea, your
creation. I'm not going to smile anymore when you trash my teacher.
You are an asshole...live with it. Real Buddhist monks wouldn't
respond with this kind of hatred. You people are poser Buddhist room
trolls that hate new ideas you don't agree with.
I will leave you with another religious tolerance quote since all I
want to do here is post links:
I have always strenuously supported the right of every man to his own
opinion, however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies
another this right makes a slave of himself to his present opinion,
because he precludes himself the right of changing it. - Thomas Paine
ramaq...@yahoo.com
Is this Daryl or Matt Druge? Daryl is acting like the Fringe Right did
towards Clinton. They are angry Clinton got laid...and Daryl I guess
is angry about Rama.
Boo Hoo
jazzym...@yahoo.com
meditation and Buddhism to tens of thousands of people all over the
world for nearly 28 years. Your hate-filled remarks only show that you
would love to be a Nazi overlord and kill or imprison anyone who did
not "fit in" with your idea of religion. There are thousands of
Buddhists websites on the net, and www.ramaquotes.com is just another
one. The site is free and there is no group to join or benefits to
anyone involved on that project. You have attacked not only Rama, Dr.
Frederick Lenz, but all Buddhist traditions and all spiritual teachers.
www.ramaquotes.com is dedicated to all the people who would like to
learn about Buddhism from a reliable source. As a practioner who has
studied many spiritual traditions with many teachers, I can attest to
the fact that this site has posted many beautiful and helpful quotes
that will help countless spiritual seekers.
Ch'an Fu
> I have publicly taught
> Buddhism for about 10 years and have never, ever, experienced the
> hatred, snobbishness, and brazen stupidity that I have witnessed in
> ABSFG.
WE WIN!!!!
Ch'an Fu
Julian
Thank you. God, my head is totally empty. I had a thing I was going to
say and I forgot it because I had given up so long ago. Well the first
thing is thank you and to the other members of my category, my friends
Jack and James and Barlett, I guess you were thinking, age before
beauty. Me too. My congratulations to the winners. My love to those who
have not won tonight and I just want to remind you of my motto: 'Cheer
up, life isn't everything!' It always stands me in good stead. I'm up
here for many brilliant people. I have to thank the most amazing
company, in which every single member is a great performer. I have to
thank an incredible group of stagehands who literally do magic every
night. I have to thank Casey Nicholaw, a brilliant choreographer, who
did so much more of my job then you would ever believe. He's great and
I'm deeply grateful to him. To Tim Hatley, for magical sets and
costumes. And to two great producers, Bill Haber and Bob Boyett who are
supportive, creative and I know you won't believe this, but I swear
it's true... generous. I have to thank my gorgeous, amazing wife. And I
agree with you, she could have done a lot better, but she is my luck.
And Max and Jenny, you don't have to go to bed. Thank you.
Daryl
com> wrote:
>
>Everyone has shown an amazing amount of forebearance on your behalf. I
Forebearance, yawn, yeah that's what we've shown...
--
Daryl
Ch'an Fu
> As a practioner who has
> studied many spiritual traditions with many teachers, I can attest to
> the fact that this site has posted many beautiful and helpful quotes
> that will help countless spiritual seekers.
"Help, I'm drowning!"
"Here - this is a float quote - save yourself!"
jazzym...@yahoo.com
"comic" in those deaths. The hate-filled fools on ABSFG would have
gladly hammered the nails on Jesus' cross because he was a "dangerous
cult leader". There is no excuse for the trashing and hectoring of the
www.ramaquotes.com site. Further, your slimy remarks regarding Rama
seducing women only shows your jealously towards Rama and inadequacy
towards women. Rama had the highest respect and regard for women and
men, and all sentient beings.
Julian
Ch'an Fu
Ch'an Fu
stumper
> Stump i ignored the hate last spring when i posted a few Rama quotes.
>
> I am fighting as an American, not a student of any teacher, who wants
> to maintan free speech, assembly and religion in the anti-free speech,
> intolerant climate of ABSFG.
>
> Last spring I went the Buddhist route and ignored the Nazi-like hatred.
> But now I want to teach the ABSFG room trolls that attacking others
> beleifs sometimes leads to arguments....the assholes in this room are
> too stupid to realize that religious intolerance and hatred is a major
> cause of wars.
>
> Thank god the room-trolls here have no real power to start a war!
> They are wose than Bush. At least Bush fights for oil, these room
> trolls fight for hatred. I love how the ABSFG room trolls play victim
> when someone DARES to fight back....what un-American scum.
>
> Here is the quote of Rama's I follow regarding the room trolls of
> ABSFG:
>
> "Turning the other cheek is not always the answer. In a certain
> situation on a certain day for a certain person, it's correct.
> Sometimes a good roundhouse kick on a certain day in a certain
> situation for a certain person is correct." - Zen Master Rama
>
> This is all the nazi-like intollerant trolls of this room deserve.
>
> Long live the bill of rights!
>
Calm down, please.
I do try to practice radical tolerance
in a way I understand it.
I can understand why you are getting upset
at the teasing of some regulars here (TRB)
and at the confrontational taunting at ABSFG.
But, you harsh rhetoric will only justify their intolerance.
I am not sure why you wanna post your links here.
I'm not saying you have to justify your action,
but, you can at least tell others why you wanna do so.
If you are seeking their acceptance,
you need to do a lot better than calling them names.
--
~Stumper
Ch'an Fu
> Calm down, please.
> I do try to practice radical intolerance
> in a way I understand it.
"Don't get a head of yourself."
-- Lu-Tze
Nichiren
curl...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Jullian shut up...You have also trashed my teacher. Its time for you
> room trolls in ABSFG to be called what you are:
>
> intolerant and nazi-like.
Dear Yahoo,
You may find your world rather more acceptable if you came to
terms with a few home-truths. Julian is one of mine.
Sticks and stones may break our bones but words will never harm.
At worst it is water off a ducks back but far more likely is
that he will simply use you as fuel for his fire.
If you really want to cut him down to size you have to
do it by focusing on his weakness, his only vulnerabilty.
Bash him with the Lotus Sutra or forget it.
Daryl
>
>Good advice. But the yard work is done and the movie doesn't start for
>another hour. Besides, we haven't had this good of a "frick and frack"
>routine since Ardie and BuddhistMonk (Kennie Wheeler) were spammin with
>their Dark Zen stuff. Notice how CurlySue is the abusive one, while
>JizzyMike and other lenzites are the oh so reasonable ones. Believe me,
>it will get better.
Gawd I hope so because so far it's pretty boring.
--
Daryl
Ch'an Fu
Air-drop or just the
"butterfly between pages" bit?
Nichiren
Actually, come to think of it, that happened to me and
it didn't make a blind bit of difference.
Bash him with the Gohonzon, to which he has no defence.
Nichiren
Subscription expired. 404 - purchase realease 2.oh, of this teaching.
Daryl
Stumper, the typical answer from trolls as to why they post
is to benefit the lurkers, who are presumed to vastly outnumber
the "regulars".
What do you suppose the "intolerance" is for? Do you suppose
it's religious intolerance, or mere prejudice, or a basic
meanness of spirit?
(Those are rhetorical questions.)
--
Daryl
Julian
It could be that there are actually less
readers of newsgroupst than writers.
People have imaginary friends
and there's the schizos and
split-brain operands
to consider.
Julian
stumper
Lighten up.
I even joke about the Buddha sometimes.
Q1: What is your evidence for the assassination of the Buddha?
Q2: What is the Rama's position on "free sex"?
Q3: What kind of practice do you do?
--
~Stumper
Nichiren
Rajneesh-Osho claimed to be a great soul who
remembered all his past lives. Rajneesh-Osho came up with grand
heroic tails of his past lives to impress his followers. In truth he
was a compulsive pathalogical liar and almost everything the man ever
said was false. You could call him "wrong-way Rajneesh."
See my Web page "Do you have a soul?" at:
http://home.att.net/~meditation/soul.html
Christopher Calder
http://home.att.net/~meditation/ - home page
Nichiren
calde...@yahoo.com wrote:
> http://home.att.net/~meditation/CommonLies.html
>
> Common Lies of the Phony World of Mystics
>
> "There is no one there to tell you you are enlightened." U.G.
> Krishnamurti
>
> The ancient religions of Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism,
> Christianity, and Islam, all started as campfire religions. The
> initial spark of the religion may have been a remarkable human being
> having an insight or a vision, but the religions themselves were formed
> much later by unenlightened disciples of the original teacher. All of
> the ancient religious myths, which strict fundamentalists accept as
> fact, began with disciples sitting around a fire at night and telling
> stories about the glory days of their long dead spiritual heroes.
>
> Imagine the world before the printing press and electricity. In
> ancient times nights were long, dark, and potentially very scary, with
> no television or radio for entertainment. Huddled around a fire,
> afraid of thieves, wild animals, disease, or starvation, story tellers
> would gain recognition by fabricating heroic tales of perfect saintly
> beings in order to entertain and comfort. Over the centuries religious
> myths became wildly grandiose and fact was lost in a sea of invention.
>
> Modern day gurus often try to market themselves as being
> reincarnations of ancient religious super-heroes, or at least being in
> a direct lineage of some infallible ancient knowledge. As in The
> Wizard of Oz, if you pull away the curtain of falsehood surrounding
> many gurus you will find an ordinary human being trying to make a
> dishonest living off the sincere spiritual aspirations of their
> followers. Below are some of the common big lies told by religious
> mystics to watch out for. Hold on to your wallet and your sanity and
> be aware that it is easiest to pick your pocket as you are being hugged
> by a guru selling cosmic love and compassion.
>
> Lie #1) "Surrender to me because I am enlightened and thus more
> intelligent and wiser than you."
>
> The Eastern esoteric definition of 'enlightenment' has nothing to
> do with intelligence or wisdom. The Western definition of
> 'enlightenment' is intellectual and artistic, as in the "enlightened
> age" of the great artists and thinkers. The Eastern esoteric meaning
> of the word has nothing to do with mind, talent, art, or wisdom. The
> true occult definition means to have no boundaries, thus you feel the
> infinite emptiness of the cosmic Void.
>
> There is no wisdom in the Void: no art, no love, no hate, no
> compassion, and no good or evil. The Void simply is! All of the
> emotional and intellectual content is in the mind, and the
> enlightenment is far beyond the ordinary mental level. Enlightenment
> is the consciousness of raw nature, formless and empty of definable
> content.
>
> Superconsciousness has subjective experiential benefit in that it
> makes you feel truly magnificent. Unfortunately, cosmic consciousness
> has no functional benefit and does not increase IQ or practical wisdom
> (see The Ridiculous Teachings of Wrong Way Rajneesh). Intelligence and
> pragmatic wisdom come from a complex interaction of genetics,
> education, and life experience. The opinion of the "enlightened ones"
> on politics, science, or economics is of no inherently greater value
> than the opinion of an unenlightened person of equal education and
> genetically derived higher brain function. Thus, the undemocratic
> theocracies of the enlightened elite have always failed disastrously in
> the past and will always fail in the future. The violent history of
> planet earth proves beyond doubt that religion and politics should
> never be mixed.
>
> People who reach the Void can become corrupt, but the corruption
> is in their human minds and brains, not in the total Void itself. The
> total Void is not human and thus has no mind or potential for
> corruption. That is why Zen Buddhists say you should live in a state
> of "no-mind." A more accurate term would be no-thought, as the human
> mind-brain has other basic autonomic survival functions that continue
> even if the conscious thought process stops. Interrupting the constant
> stream of thoughts is enough, however, to allow cosmic consciousness to
> enter your body. You do not enter it. It is more accurate to say that
> the ultimate consciousness, the Atman, enters you. You can never own
> the Atman or put your personal brand on it, but it can save you from
> the pettiness and misery inherent to the limited human mind.
>
> The world of gurus and religion is a world of big business,
> politics, and lust for power. The more disciples a guru attracts, the
> more power and income they can generate. Teachers often say "stick
> with one guru" (themselves) because when a guru loses a disciple he
> loses a potential source of power and income. As the dishonest
> propaganda surrounding the teacher grows more fantastic, the quality of
> the guru's disciples always becomes more and more immature and corrupt.
> People who grow up mentally know there are no perfect human beings.
> Children can be fooled by incredible claims of divine infallibility.
> Adults who have lived a long life with alertness cannot be hoodwinked
> by such old tricks.
>
> Lie #2) "I am enlightened and I have no ego."
>
> Some humans do become 'enlightened,' but no living human being is
> without ego. If you lost your ego you would physically die within two
> weeks, because you could not eat, drink, or have any activity other
> than basic involuntary movements, such as breathing and heart beat. It
> is the same neurological mechanism that talks, walks, eats, and
> accomplishes tasks that we also call the 'ego.' You can have a
> centralized ego, as most people do, or you can have a decentralized
> ego, as enlightened people attain. In the end, as far as behavior is
> concerned, it makes little difference.
>
> We feel a centralized ego vividly, so its suffering becomes a
> tremendous burden to us. Some may go on a spiritual path to get rid of
> ego, but in truth we can only push ego to the periphery of the mind.
> The human brain is vast, with many hiding places in its neural web
> where the ego function can hide without notice.
>
> 21st century science knows that the brain is highly adaptive. If
> one portion of the brain is damaged, it is often possible for another
> area of the brain to adapt itself to take over the lost function. If a
> centralized ego comes under fire from the brilliant light of
> meditation, it can simply shift its location to an area of the brain
> unaffected by the torch of consciousness. In fact, a hidden back-up
> peripheral ego center already exists, and this is because the ego
> function is essential to human survival. There is no such thing as
> total self-knowledge of the human brain. Even fully enlightened human
> beings have blind spots where they cannot see.
>
> Just because you do not feel an ego does not mean that you do not
> have an ego! The East deluded itself into thinking ego could be
> destroyed, but the entire East was wrong. The East has never been good
> at combining subjective feeling with objective provable fact, and thus
> the East was not the birthplace of real science and the scientific
> method.
>
> "Part of the guru is "enlightened," wise, knowledgeable, and he's
> mentally living in this enlightened part of himself. He believes that
> he *is* that part exclusively, ignoring the other parts which have been
> cut off and dissociated from his conscious awareness. He becomes
> identified with the guru aspect of himself exclusively. The other
> parts, however, do not disappear. They still exist, but are simply
> disowned and regulated to the unconscious." - Charles Morrison
>
> Objectively, by any measurement, enlightened people are as
> egocentric as anyone else. Quite often they become even more egoistic
> if they allow themselves to be put on a pedestal. Totally enlightened
> humans have become corrupt, self-indulgent liars, murders, and thieves.
> Do not accept the big lie of the egoless master. They do not exist
> now and they have never existed in the past. There was no "Lord
> Buddha," only an enlightened Siddhartha Gautama. There was no "Lord
> Jesus," only a carpenter who made extravagant claims. The only way to
> be egoless is to physically die and not come back into this world. If
> you are here, you have an ego. Do not fool yourself or allow yourself
> to be fooled by others.
>
> Lie/scam #3) "Do not judge the great masters. They are on such a high
> level of consciousness that they cannot be measured by normal standards
> of good behavior."
>
> This is a convenient old lie used by gurus to cover up lie #1 and
> lie #2 and to turn naive disciples into mental eunuchs, thus making
> them more useful as slaves. Of course gurus do not want to be judged
> by normal standards, because that will destroy their business. The
> corrupt spiritual teacher always wants a blank check. If he seduces
> your wife, it is for your own spiritual benefit. If he robs your bank
> account, it is a test of your state of spiritual surrender. If the
> guru murders someone, it is for the victim's own good and the guru
> should not be prosecuted. When spiritual teachers start acting like
> pharaohs, "enlightened" or not, they have crossed a line into the world
> of criminals.
>
> Lie #4) "Read my new book and it will help you find enlightenment."
>
> The German and Austrian Nazis of the 1930s were wrong to burn
> books. Books are a great way to learn about history, science, and art.
> Unfortunately books can also be an obstacle when it comes to matters
> of existential truth. Books often turn the search for truth into dogma
> and give people the false impression that by reading them you can know
> something about meditation without actually meditating yourself. In my
> opinion, the world would be better off if most of the books written by
> the famous mystics were used for fuel to keep us all warm at night.
>
> Meditation is basic good-clean-fun. It can make you feel filled
> with light and highly euphoric, but it will never turn you into a
> pedantic reservoir of borrowed intellectual knowledge. Reading and
> religion are both polar opposites of meditation. In meditation you
> clear yourself of thoughts and become more detached. Reading and
> religion fill your head with other people's thoughts, which are often
> more idiotic than your own thoughts, and you become attached to dead
> teachers, dead philosophies, dead shrines, and dead rituals.
> Meditation, by contrast, is thrilling real life, right here and right
> now.
>
> Meditation, like gardening, is a relatively simple affair that
> requires honest effort and patience. It is not a highly complex
> intellectual task, as the study of DNA or astrophysics. You can read
> all you need to know about meditation in just one hour. A few simple
> pointers are enough to get students meditating and on a path to growing
> awareness. You cannot read your way to enlightenment, but you can read
> your way to the loony-bin. Books stimulate the thinking function of
> the brain, making your mind spew out more thoughts at an even faster
> pace. Meditation means transcending the conflict and limitations of
> the world of thought and entering the naturally serene state of
> no-thought.
Nichiren
Messer Xin
(in message <1130614077....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):
> Jullian shut up...You have also trashed my teacher. Its time for you
> room trolls in ABSFG to be called what you are:
>
> intolerant and nazi-like.
Actually, what Julian said was:
> No one believes you, further, you are dragging
> your master into deeper disrepute.
>
> Out of gratitude to your master
> and to salvage his reputation,
> you'd be far better off acting
> admirably.
Curly goes on:
> You morons play the victim game. You violently attack other spiritual
> beleifs, claim that a best selling buddhist author's quotes in a
> buddhist room is spam, and then complain when his students fight back.
Xin:
Uh, no, we don't.
Although your postings do amount to spam, we are quite pleased to have you
post in these places. Please don't stop!
Btw, Julian is not an absfg'er, though he drops by often enough.
> You are like four-year olds in sandbox who are under the delusion that
> they "own" the sandbox. You all want to punch out new posters and
> then complain if they fight back...Julian you define wimp.
Why are you fighting back?
> You are the one insulting yourself "Julian Love God". Don't pretend to
> be nice. Ive read your posts; you are a nasty hate-filled being that
> hides his hate with poor humor.
Well, maybe so. But he does have a certain panache. Julian actually is being
quite nice in the post you are, uh, "responding" to.
> There is only one possible outcome of this.
Uh, no. There are several. I think it most likely that you will see you are
getting little bang for the buck and will soon disappear.
> You assholes are going to
> learn religious tolerance. you are also going to learn that your
> victim game is getting old....
It seems like you folks are the ones whining.
> I am content to post links to my Zen Master...thats it.
And that's false on the face of it.
---Messer Xin
--
Life is eternal while it lasts. .. Ape;)
Messer Xin
(in message <1130614486.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>):
> Actually he's serving his master as best he can, which is AFAIAC just
> fine by me.
>
> ZMR's reputation preceded these various (and quite obvious) sockpuppets
> of churlishwade / jizzymic / ramanoodle, and - giving him the benefit
> of the doubt - this sad sack for a troll has done nothing to dispel or
> explain the sullied reputation his group suffers.
>
> I'm still trying to decide whether he is brazenly trolling the reef for
> slow fish who can be pulled into his net, using some kind of flamewar
> recruiting method as a crucible (sorry for the mixed metaphors).
>
> I mean, hell, I could make a better propagandist for the extant
> Rama-groups, as in fact the current Rama groups do - keeping
> appearances normal and low-key, pulling in the tantric / ecstatic
> traffic.
>
> IMO our nemesis of the moment is just a perfect reflection of what ZMR
> wrought upon himself and others.
My thoughts have run the same circles.
Took a long time for me to realize that Ardent was really just wanting to
make people angry. I'm glad to see that the folks of Buddhist usenet are
handling this with humor and calmness, without letting the Ramaists off
irresponsibilities.
---Messer Xin
--
as for makin him a god
well he didnt have much use for gods
cuz all they do is stare in a mirror
marvelling at their own creation
kinda hard to strike up a conversation with people like that ya know
---dar
Messer Xin
(in message <4363e907$0$126$edfa...@dread16.news.tele.dk>):
>> You are like a wanta-be grand iquisitor, so shove your hate-filled
>> questions up your ass; this is America not a theorcratic state run by
>> Ned.
>>
> This is a very good example of the futillity of trying to argue with
> spamnuts like this. If the above is supposed to show the posters highly
> entlightend state, resulting from the teachings of a zenmaster, I for one
> can do without. Why waste anymore time on this fire 'n' brimstone simpelton?
> A day or two just for the exercise must be enough.
> So I suggest the good old fashioned collective killfiling of the source.
> That'll clear the air in this ng of all this nonsens, that really is beneath
> the regulars here, that I, as mostly just lurking, have come to appriciate
> as goodhumored observers of the absurdities of life as we know it, and then
> some.
I see it as more like deep sea fishing. We have some really vigorous
specimens on the hook. Let's play 'em until they tire, so we can get a real
good look at 'em.
---Messer Xin
--
Yer just tryin ta get into sig lines yu little weasel.
-- cryptocupcake, South Ninavut
Messer Xin
(in message <1130614586.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):
> Stump i ignored the hate last spring when i posted a few Rama quotes.
>
> I am fighting as an American,
Whoa! Is that cool or what!
> not a student of any teacher, who wants
> to maintan free speech, assembly and religion in the anti-free speech,
> intolerant climate of ABSFG.
Why absfg?
People in other newsgroups are much better at calling you assholes.
> Last spring I went the Buddhist route and ignored the Nazi-like hatred.
> But now I want to teach the ABSFG room trolls that attacking others
> beleifs sometimes leads to arguments....the assholes in this room are
> too stupid to realize that religious intolerance and hatred is a major
> cause of wars.
Why not trb?
> Thank god the room-trolls here have no real power to start a war!
> They are wose than Bush. At least Bush fights for oil, these room
> trolls fight for hatred. I love how the ABSFG room trolls play victim
> when someone DARES to fight back....what un-American scum.
Why not <shudder> . . . alt.zen!?
> Here is the quote of Rama's I follow regarding the room trolls of
> ABSFG:
>
> "Turning the other cheek is not always the answer. In a certain
> situation on a certain day for a certain person, it's correct.
> Sometimes a good roundhouse kick on a certain day in a certain
> situation for a certain person is correct." - Zen Master Rama
>
> This is all the nazi-like intollerant trolls of this room deserve.
Why not arbt, with lots of people of the Vajra order who are going astray?
> Long live the bill of rights!
Quote me the First Amendment!
---Messer Xin
--
I'll stop suffering when they pry the
expectations from my cold, dead, brain.
- Sanford M. Manley