Yoga, war and/or God.
omjaroo
process regarding war and other un-God-like (fearful) human behaviors.
Principal:
God is everywhere. There is no space or place where God is not.
Everything that exists as well as everything that does not, does so in
and of and as God. God is first cause. The nature of everything must be
(is) in the nature of God.
Principle:
People always have and do exactly what they need and they always do the
best they can with what they have. When they can do better they will do
better.
Principle:
Thought is t he only cause.
Integration:
War is what the people waging it, need and want to do. Thatąs why they
are doing it. If we support it or oppose it, we become a part of it.
Spiritually speaking we make it our war when we take sides. Karmic law
recognizes thought as action and in this sense we become every bit as
responsible for the conflict (and its consequences) as the combatants.
We feel sad (we fear there is such a thing as death; and that death will
come to us.) so we try to change our internal feeling state by
attempting to change or stop something someone else is doing) We think
it is wrong (we fear there is no God and that there could possibly be
such a thing as something wrong) so we desire to make it right. The fact
is there isnąt much most of us can do and what we can do most of us are
unwilling to give up our other desires to do. So we suffer emotionally
or even get sick to our stomachs with disgust. Then we look for someone
or something to fight, to criticize, to oppose, to judge, to condemn, to
complain about, to hate, to change. In other words we resist, we
fight, we go to war inside ourselves and with others. Now we are fully
engaged in the very war we fear. What we fear always comes to us because
we call it with the full weight of our mentality and we become war.
God or war?
When I live my present moment with thoughts of war, then it becomes my
war and I am just as responsible for its consequences as those who
fight.
When I support or oppose others as they act out their fears, then their
fate is mine and I must suffer each cry, each wound and each death.
When I let go of the desires that fuel my fear; when my mind is still;
when there is no war in my heart; when my present moment is Love, then I
live in awareness of the Truth;
There is no misery, death or warŠ There is only God.
Namaste
Bee
> ...People always...do exactly what they need...
> Thought is t he only cause.
> most of us can do...So we suffer emotionally...we go to war
> inside ourselves and with others...I am just as responsible
> for its consequences as those who fight.
> awareness of the Truth;...
Thank you for sharing the rationalization of your pacifist stance.
There is one practical problem: what would you do, emotionally and
physically, when those around you -- and there are more of those than the
ones with your view point -- want to 'run you down', deceive you, harm you,
emotionally and physically, for reasons you don't even know why? Worse;
often times, they'll redouble their effort if you show no response,
emotionally or physically.
My name for Truth/God you referred to is Cosmic Will.
Bee.
--
[I have found my Shangri-La in ntlworld.]
--
omjaroo
>
> My name for Truth/God you referred to is Cosmic Will.
>
> Bee.
Bee,
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it.
Cosmic Will works for me. After all, a rose by any other name smells
just as sweet
> Thank you for sharing the rationalization of your pacifist stance.
Rationalization is not a good word in the psychological sense but I
think I understand what you mean ;-).
I donšt think of myself as a pacifist. I can and will fight if I deem it
appropriate. Then again I may not, if I think that is a better choice,
all things considered. Best to cross that bridge when I come to it. For
me it is paralyzing to play łwhat ifs˛ before I am faced with the need
to make that decision.
What I work hard at is changing the habit of defining myself as
łopposed˛ to something outside of myself. My opinions, ideas and
feelings about current (or even historical) events are not who I am. I
am an expression of the Cosmic Will. That is what is true. If I try to
define myself in terms of what I believe someone else isnšt then I am
lying because everyone and everything is an expression of Cosmic Will.
We all know what happens when we lie; we get spanked by the laws of the
universe. How? Well a lie is bad information. It isnšt true. No decision
based on bad information can be a good one no matter how well thought
out or reasoned. Ergo, any decision I make, based on a lie will be a bad
one and me and/others will be hurt (spanked). When I stop lying the
spanking stops and so does the pain.
Like most human beings I canšt stand a feeling of fear and helplessness.
I will do whatever I can to stop it. Usually this involves making some
decision (judgment) about the nature of what I am scared over, as if I
knew what was actually happening. Most of the time I donšt have anything
like all the information I need to make that determination. Whatever I
donšt know I just fill in the blanks. Then I take some action to protect
myself or attack that which I blame for scaring me. Well guess what?
Itšs the lies again. Bad information (I made it up) and whatever I do is
probably going to be out of balance and/or inappropriate.
I have a lot of education, experience and a huge frame of reference. The
more I know the less sure I am that I know whatšs going on. Išve been in
enough real life news situations to know that anything you hear over TV,
Radio or the News Papers, is mostly regurgitated lies, manufactured for
mass consumption and designed to ignite the emotions (fear) of ignorant
people and sell advertising. Any information provided by a government
of any sort, large or small, is at best highly suspect and usually
without merit and at worst is complete fabrication and disinformation.
If I read the papers and listen to CNN and think I know what is going
on, then I am deluding myself.
So I minimize fabrication and focus on what I know to be true. Like a
scientist I take a known quantity or fact and compare everything against
it. In my case that known quantity is God. That is the only think I know
for certain. There is God. God is everywhere. Everything, everywhere
must be whatever God is. God is Love. Everything, everywhere must be
Love. So whatever the appearance, whatever my fear (fabrication) I must
remind myself that the only thing I know to exist is God. Itšs all God.
So life, death, peace, war, these things have no meaning in themselves,
apart from God. My only problem is seeing the Truth that this is God in
all these things. This is why and how I practice yoga.
> There is one practical problem: what would you do, emotionally and
> physically, when those around you -- and there are more of those than the
> ones with your view point -- want to 'run you down', deceive you, harm you,
> emotionally and physically, for reasons you don't even know why?
The reason is fear. There is no other. Most who act like this are
terrified beyond their ability to express or control it. Compassion,
acceptance, empathy, understanding, Love, Truth. These sooth and heal
fear.
> often times, they'll redouble their effort if you show no response, emotionally or physically.
That being said, I was once in a domestic relationship like you
describe. I was compelled to stay for very serious and complicated
reasons. But I would not suggest staying if one is in a violent or
abusive situation. It is best to bless those who torment you and remove
yourself anyway you have to. It is not loving to allow someone to abuse
us and one can not help anyone in anyway by allowing them to hurt you.
No room for pacifism here. Cast their fear and our fate onto the Cosmic
Will and leave.
If its just a social situation, work or usenet then come or go as you
please. Remember no one needs to attack or hurt anyone unless they are
afraid. Remember this and you will understand virtually all human
behavior. If the results are loving, kind, positive and good then the
actions were motivated by an absence of fear. If the results are
negative, hurtful, dishonest or damaging in any way then the actions
were motivated by fear.
Jared
Namaste
Hari Har Singh
"Bee" <in.my....@Shangri-La.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:cOeoc.432$I51...@newsfe3-win.server.ntli.net...
> omjaroo wrote:
> > ...People always...do exactly what they need...
> > Thought is t he only cause.
> > War is what the people ...want to do....there isnšt much
> > most of us can do...So we suffer emotionally...we go to war
> > inside ourselves and with others...I am just as responsible
> > for its consequences as those who fight.
> > When I let go of the desires that fuel my fear...then I live in
> > awareness of the Truth;...
>
>
> Thank you for sharing the rationalization of your pacifist stance.
It's an description of experiences one can make who has the guts to face his
fears.
> There is one practical problem: what would you do, emotionally and
> physically, when those around you -- and there are more of those than the
> ones with your view point -- want to 'run you down', deceive you, harm
you,
> emotionally and physically, for reasons you don't even know why?
That is an interesting experience you can make... often they won't.
Do you know those people who allways get caught in a fight and trouble?
Why do they?
I myself have never been attacked in a Disco or had a beating or was part of
a shooting... but there are people who allways get caught in that and they
say "Honorable judge, I did nothing!" "They started the trouble..." And then
you maybe spend an evening with them and you realize that they "radiate" "I
want to have trouble" - un-consciously to them but very much recognicable to
their environment.
Spoken in political terms and about "war on terror":
Making a war on terror means to feed the terror.
Yes, we had in Europe terroist attacks too. Horrible and crual actions. 200
people dead in a bombing in spain.
People who did that had to be caught and arrested and put in jail.
But starting a war because of that?
Every year 6000 people do die in car accidents on german streets.
1500 people die because of illegal drug abuse and 100.000 do die every year
because of legal alcohol abuse.
40.000 die because of smoking every year. Some 10thousands die because of
influenca - and we get affraid some people dying on SARS in China...
Terrorism is a symbol that our societys still are not "perfect". There is
still conflict in people and some see no other way than hating and
destroying.
There is no 100% protection against these people, we do have to carry that
risk living in this society and compared to other countrys this is a fairly
minimal risk to be victim of a terrorist attack. Even in the USA it is
rather more possible to be killed by a mad redneck then by an arab terrorist
bombing.
And here it is rather more possible to die of alcohol abuse then on
el-kaida...
Our minister of internal-affairs once said that there is no need to panic
and that we need in europe to develope a kind of "heroic calmness" facing
these terrorist acts.
We had those terrorist attacks in the 70s and 80s here in germany too.
And in those days there was a discussion in the gouvernment too how to face
these attacks - to become a policestate and even use military force to
"fight" terrorists or do it in a more silent way, with no military and not
much visible police and this more "heroic calmness". Fortnunately the
gouvernment decided to go the more peacefull way - looking back it was the
right way.
The terrorists did not reached their goal to destabelize the german society.
Some have been caught and put in jail, some have been "killed in action".
most of them do left the jail after 15-25 years (that is the avarage
lifelong jail in germany) and are remarkebly re-integrated in the society.
At least they have loaded up a lot of Karma on themselfs and their victims
and they have to life with it. But there is no need to victimize a whole
society through declaring a war and sending thousands of young people into
death and a life as a criple as the USA do it now with their soldiers...
(and Iraq never has been an terror issue either...now it is because of the
USA. But, that is another discussion).
> Worse;
> often times, they'll redouble their effort if you show no response,
> emotionally or physically.
Yes, they do.
Not responding - ignoring - can be recogniced as aggrressive act.
Especially if there is someone who wants your attention / attacks you ;o)
But nobody says that you should not self-defend yourself if you get attackt.
That is the key missunderstanding "militarists" have about so called
"pacifists".
The key question is HOW to self-defend/protect?
Sat Nam - Hari Har Singh
Bee
> ...What I work hard at is changing the habit of defining myself as
> łopposed˛ to something outside of myself....
I am in harmony with your analysis. I, too, have come to the same
realization: 'be honest with myself' and 'be myself'. It is a constant
battle. Maybe this is the way, as you seem to be saying, to approach
'enlightenment', to come close to being filled with the cosmic will ( in
lower case ) / the Force -- as in "May the Force be with you?" ( Lucas'
films ) /the ( Wallace's/ Darwin's ) evolutionary engine/ the Dao/ the
chi -- as in the Chinese martial exercises, medicine including acupuncture,
and feng-shui.
Wade Humeniuk
>
> The key question is HOW to self-defend/protect?
>
Goto
http://www.humankindness.org/winter96.html
Scroll down to
PRACTICE: KINDNESS AS A MARTIAL ART
Wade
omjaroo
"Bee" <in.my....@Shangri-La.com> wrote:
Ah... the nuance of capitalization :-)
Yes, the force and all the other flowers. Or my favorite anology, ice
cream. Lots of flavors to choose from: Pick which ever you like, they
are all good!
Namaste
Bee
> Bee wrote:
> > omjaroo wrote:
> > > ...War is what the people ...want to do....there isnšt
> > > much most of us can do...So we suffer emotionally...
> > > we go to war inside ourselves and with others...I am
> > > just as responsible for its consequences as those who
> > > I live in awareness of the Truth;...
> ..nobody says that you should not self-defend yourself..
To "live in awareness of the Truth", the argument of "let[ting] go of the
desires that fuel my fear", i.e. the forsaking of desires, has to be applied
across the board, without exceptions, without any excuse of mitigating
circumstance, for, assessing the justification of such excuses is subjective
and arbitrary, i.e. never devoid of contentions -- otherwise there would be
no objection -- and therefore never entirely satisfactory. Being
unsatisfactory, and the lingering doubt therefrom, is hardly condusive to
"letting go of the desires".
I have no quarrel with evading/avoiding the aggressor/abuser -- some would
say, this is the same as running away from the issue. Certainly, I would
defend myself. But, to maintain the internal consistency of the argument, I
cannot attack my aggressor/abuser. I can put up my arm to fend off the
blows but I cannot raise my arm to strike.
Another dilemma is that I must not be the aggressor/abuser myself. To
extend the argument a little further, I must not harm animals, let alone
consume them, e.g. chicken.
Yet another dilemma is that I have to be truthful at all times, i.e.
absolutely no white lies.
These are just some of the obstacles.
omjaroo
"Bee" <in.my....@Shangri-La.com> wrote:
> Hari Har Singh wrote:
> > Bee wrote:
> > > omjaroo wrote:
> > > > ...War is what the people ...want to do....there isnąt
> > > > much most of us can do...So we suffer emotionally...
> > > > we go to war inside ourselves and with others...I am
> > > > just as responsible for its consequences as those who
> > > > fight. When I let go of the desires that fuel my fear..then
> > > > I live in awareness of the Truth;...
> > > ..they'll redouble their effort if you show no response..
> > ..nobody says that you should not self-defend yourself..
>
>
>
> To "live in awareness of the Truth", the argument of "let[ting] go of the
> desires that fuel my fear", i.e. the forsaking of desires, has to be applied
> across the board, without exceptions,
Absolutely. There are no exceptions.
> I have no quarrel with evading/avoiding the aggressor/abuser -- some would
> say, this is the same as running away from the issue. Certainly, I would
> defend myself. But, to maintain the internal consistency of the argument, I
> cannot attack my aggressor/abuser. I can put up my arm to fend off the
> blows but I cannot raise my arm to strike.
> Another dilemma is that I must not be the aggressor/abuser myself. To
> extend the argument a little further, I must not harm animals, let alone
> consume them, e.g. chicken.
Actions have no meaning. Live, die, kill, be killed, rape, murder,
torture, save, heal, nurture; all of these things can be done with
desire for the fruit of the outcome or without. It is the desire which
engenders the fear and the fear that brings evil into the meaning of the
action. Not the action itself. The action has only the meaning we give
to it. No external moral code can have any meaning or effect. We are the
only ones who can create good or evil.
Love is the nature of the Universe. Fear is a fabrication. We can kill
with Love, we can eat animals with love, we can steal with Love.
Likewise we can heal with fear, protect with fear, feed with fear and
cause hate, discontent and unhappiness (how do you spell Iraq and
AfghanistanŠ?)
> Yet another dilemma is that I have to be truthful at all times, i.e.
> absolutely no white lies.
Absolutely
> These are just some of the obstacles.
I think yoga the most difficult of all human endeavors, with the
greatest possible reward (as long as you don't desire it :-)
Namaste
BeCompassionate
wrote:
>
>Spoken in political terms and about "war on terror":
>Making a war on terror means to feed the terror.
>Yes, we had in Europe terroist attacks too. Horrible and crual actions. 200
>people dead in a bombing in spain.
>People who did that had to be caught and arrested and put in jail.
>But starting a war because of that?
There cannot be a void after such a terrorist action - there has to be
some kind of response to it. So in Spain 2 million people marched
with banners that said "Freedom" and "Democracy". That was their
action, and their future will be the result of that action.
In america if 2 million people had marched in New York on 9/12 then
there would have been no war no Iraq, no war on Afghanistan. I am
tempted to ask, why did 2 million people NOT march in america on 9/12?
BeCompassionate
It would be good if in future americans take their cue from these
events and STRONGLY express their support of freedom and democracy,
for themselves as well as for others.
>
>
blacknblue
> For anyone that may be interested, here is my (Jaredšs jnana) internal
>
> Principal:
> God is everywhere. There is no space or place where God is not.
> Everything that exists as well as everything that does not, does so in
> and of and as God. God is first cause. The nature of everything must be
> (is) in the nature of God.
>
> Principle:
> People always have and do exactly what they need and they always do the
> best they can with what they have. When they can do better they will do
> better.
>
> Principle:
> Thought is t he only cause.
>
> Integration:
> Spiritually speaking we make it our war when we take sides. Karmic law
> recognizes thought as action and in this sense we become every bit as
> responsible for the conflict (and its consequences) as the combatants.
> We feel sad (we fear there is such a thing as death; and that death will
> come to us.) so we try to change our internal feeling state by
> attempting to change or stop something someone else is doing) We think
> it is wrong (we fear there is no God and that there could possibly be
> such a thing as something wrong) so we desire to make it right. The fact
> or even get sick to our stomachs with disgust. Then we look for someone
> or something to fight, to criticize, to oppose, to judge, to condemn, to
> complain about, to hate, to change. In other words we resist, we
> fight, we go to war inside ourselves and with others. Now we are fully
> engaged in the very war we fear. What we fear always comes to us because
> we call it with the full weight of our mentality and we become war.
>
> God or war?
> When I live my present moment with thoughts of war, then it becomes my
> war and I am just as responsible for its consequences as those who
> fight.
>
> When I support or oppose others as they act out their fears, then their
> fate is mine and I must suffer each cry, each wound and each death.
>
> When I let go of the desires that fuel my fear; when my mind is still;
> when there is no war in my heart; when my present moment is Love, then I
> live in awareness of the Truth;
>
And when there is only God there is only wars over differences in
opinion of who or what that God is. This idea of God was meant for
good purposes, but instead it has caused people to become low
self-esteemed, brainwashed by ideologies, separate from their fellow
brothers.
God may be so, but I don't wish to live for a God in the sense of
religion...its only wars that these Gods caused.
Having that said. IMOLO Yoga should be used for personal impowerment
so that one has the strength to serve selflessly. A weak person can
only throw in a couple cents here and there...nothing wrong with that.
But there needs to be great men/yogis who are willing to fight the
good fight. The selfless fight. If yoga is just concerned with ones
personal enlightenment and power then there is no selflessness in
that. We can come up with all the rationalizations our minds want us
to come up with, but it never works. The proper motivation should be
always kept in mind when practicing yoga. That is that "Starting with
me becoming more and more compassionate daily, may this compassion
spread to the entire human hearts and minds" Constantly think virtue,
justice, and on the less fortunate...and your heart will automatically
have the proper motivation. Practicing yoga is important, but the
right motivation must be there as well in order for us to become
One---
peace out:)
Hari Har Singh
"BeCompassionate" <PeaceWithinBri...@sify.com> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:40a2e9b9...@130.133.1.4...
Yes, that's what I meant with a shift of consciousness in the people.
People display that they are aware what these terrorist actions are about
but they are not willing to give in and show what their convictions are - in
a peacefull way.
I recall the big demonstration with "we are the people" calls in eastern
germany in the 80s that finally made - peacefully - collaps the whole
dictatory system.
I wish too that people in USA would have and still would raise to make big
demonstrations of the peoples will.
I recall that there have been big demonstrations with Martin Luther King or
against the Vietnam war.
And it would be good to have these demonstrations in the Arab world and
Israel too... That's what I miss too.
And have anybody heard a strong statement of muslim spiritual leaders
against the terrorist violence? Unfortunately I have to say that I miss that
too...
blacknblue
maybe this will enlighten you a bit on why the zest of American protests is gone.
Bee
> http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000655.php
I have just sent in my e-mail address to become its newest subscriber. :-)
Bee
> Bee wrote:
> > Hari Har Singh wrote:
> > > Bee wrote:
> > > > omjaroo wrote:
> > > > > much most of us can do...So we suffer emotionally...
> > > > > we go to war inside ourselves and with others...I am
> > > > > just as responsible for its consequences as those who
> > > > > fight. When I let go of the desires that fuel my fear..then
> > > > > I live in awareness of the Truth;...
> > > > ..they'll redouble their effort if you show no response..
> > > ..nobody says that you should not self-defend yourself..
> Actions have no meaning...We are the only ones who can
> create good or evil....we can eat animals with love, we can...feed
> with fear and cause...unhappiness...
Point taken. I can understand all pictures have no colour, only
reflected light of different wave lengths. The colours in any picture
are created in our mind's eye. This creation can be faulty so that we
get colour blindness. All of that is explained in (scientific) facts.
When we come to assess whether the picture is 'good' or 'bad', however,
a completely different mechanism is used. The conclusion ("beautiful",
"a load of rubbish",...etc.) depends on our understanding, knowledge and
experience of looking at pictures. I can see there is no meaning in a
piece of action, say, eating chicken; it can be dissected and analyzed
in our minds. But, whether it is a 'good' or 'evil' practice really
depends on our experience, which includes culture/dogma. As there is a
wide spectrum of experience, all of us have different answers (i.e. the
many gradations between 'good' and 'evil'). The actual process of
evaluation is arbitrary, and the experience on which the evaluation is
based is not fixed either.
Now you say PUT ALL THAT EVALUATION ASIDE, just execute the action with
'love', then the action is 'OK'. Conversely, if the execution is done
with 'fear', then the 'action' is not 'OK'. This cannot be right, for
putting this to test an extreme case -- to demonstrate the breakdown of
the argument, not to ridicule, absolutely -- cannibalism if executed
with 'love' is 'OK'.
omjaroo
> Now you say PUT ALL THAT EVALUATION ASIDE, just execute the action with
> 'love', then the action is 'OK'. Conversely, if the execution is done
> with 'fear', then the 'action' is not 'OK'. This cannot be right, for
> putting this to test an extreme case -- to demonstrate the breakdown of
> the argument, not to ridicule, absolutely -- cannibalism if executed
> with 'love' is 'OK'.
>
> Bee.
That's correct.
Did we not agree that all desires must be let go? That reservations of
any kind can't work?
You are correct this is where logic and the brain scream to a halt. But
then Truth and Love exist at the level of the Spirit (absolute) and the
brain can't countenance this. Knowing and/or intuition is required here,
both of these require significant vulnerability. Only the courageous
tread here.
Namaste
BeCompassionate
>But
>then Truth and Love exist at the level of the Spirit (absolute) and the
>brain can't countenance this. Knowing and/or intuition is required here,
>both of these require significant vulnerability.
But beyond that vulnerability is invulnerability.
One who has the goodwill of all beings at heart, is free from the
enmity of all. And without enmity, there is no-one to fear.
omjaroo
PeaceWithinBringsPea...@sify.com (BeCompassionate)
wrote:
Thanks. Of course you are right. The vulnerablity is only percieved it
doesn't really exist. But that is not what it feels like when you are
there, which is why courage is needed.
Namaste