Magic Realism
wolfe...@uswest.net
Latin American authors? Borges, Allende, de Berneires(however its spelled)
Marquez, and so many others, often use fable-like descriptions, or non-
realistic settings to explain a story or scene. I love it. Im very impressed
by the creativity. But what i keep wondering is why has this style developed
there more than in the U.S.? Or anywhere else for that matter? Im not saying
fantastical stories dont get written here, but it isnt at all the same kind
of thing. in general, American fiction requires rational explanations for
everything. If the fable Tom Thumb were a contemporary american story, we'd
see poor Tom as a victim of radiation or genetic experamentation or
something. Not just he was born small, so there. In the Latin American
stories though, the explanation isnt as critical as the event. For example,
theres a scene in "like Water for Chocolate" where one woman can no longer
fight the sexuality growing in her, and as she's taking a shower, she gets so
hot that the water turns to steam as it hits her, and the wooden walls of the
shower burst into flames because of the heat of her sexual need. Finally, as
the shower burns, she runs off to the hills and jumps the first bandito she
finds(and sort of becomes the bandito queen). It was a fantastic scene. i
really liked it..very free, and very effective. so my questions, once again,
are why is it prominant there and not here, and how did it become a popular
style? id also like to hear comments on any english language writers like
that.
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Camille E Kea
> are why is it prominant there and not here, and how did it become a
popular
because we Americans tend to be too literal. If it's not etched in stone we
don't want to hear about it. I use the collective "we." Personally, I am
fond of magical realism. In my own writing I tend to exaggerate and nothing
is ever black or white. I like to have fun with fantastical imagery and
myth but this is something not easily stomached. We're just different here.
It makes me ill.
<wolfe...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:7fkte3$9rn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> style?
Michael Lennox
I wonder how much of the different mindset can be linked (no causation, but a
parallel) to the religious differences. The sense of the mystical is alive and
well in Catholicism, while Protestants tend to look at everything more
rationally. Fatima probably couldn't happen in Minnesota. Look at the
perspectives on the sacrament of Communion. For Catholics, the bread and wine are
mystically transformed into the body and blood of Christ. Protestants, with their
firm basis in reality, reject this idea and Communion becomes a ceremony of
remembrance. This shift in belief probably also leads more readily toward
agnosticism and atheism (and a general sense of doubt and intellectual
uneasiness), but that's another post.
Michael
wolfe...@uswest.net wrote:
> Why is there such a strong sence of fables, and absurdity, and so forth in
> Latin American authors? Borges, Allende, de Berneires(however its spelled)
> Marquez, and so many others, often use fable-like descriptions, or non-
> realistic settings to explain a story or scene. I love it. Im very impressed
> by the creativity. But what i keep wondering is why has this style developed
> there more than in the U.S.? Or anywhere else for that matter? Im not saying
> fantastical stories dont get written here, but it isnt at all the same kind
> of thing. in general, American fiction requires rational explanations for
> everything. If the fable Tom Thumb were a contemporary american story, we'd
> see poor Tom as a victim of radiation or genetic experamentation or
> something. Not just he was born small, so there. In the Latin American
> stories though, the explanation isnt as critical as the event. For example,
> theres a scene in "like Water for Chocolate" where one woman can no longer
> fight the sexuality growing in her, and as she's taking a shower, she gets so
> hot that the water turns to steam as it hits her, and the wooden walls of the
> shower burst into flames because of the heat of her sexual need. Finally, as
> the shower burns, she runs off to the hills and jumps the first bandito she
> finds(and sort of becomes the bandito queen). It was a fantastic scene. i
> really liked it..very free, and very effective. so my questions, once again,
> are why is it prominant there and not here, and how did it become a popular
> style? id also like to hear comments on any english language writers like
> that.
>
Alan Hope
wolfe...@uswest.net wrote in article
<7fkte3$9rn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> Why is there such a strong sence of fables, and absurdity, and so
forth in
> Latin American authors? Borges, Allende, de Berneires(however its
spelled)
Louis De Bernières is English.
Then all the way down to:
> id also like to hear comments on any english language writers like
> that.
Salman Rushdie. He comes, of course, from an entirely different
tradition, but that reminds us that the use of fable and (apparent)
absurd situations goes back to Greek and Roman myths, religious texts
like the Bible (dare I say it), Norse sagas and ancient epics like
Gilgamesh and the Hindu legends. Perhaps some admixture of
Catholicism and native Indian legend gave rise to the South American
taste for magic realism, but I'd defer to more knowledgable opinion
on that.
AH
jhenn...@my-dejanews.com
Michael Lennox <mle...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Just a thought I had as I read your post . . .
> I wonder how much of the different mindset can be linked (no causation, but a
> parallel) to the religious differences. The sense of the mystical is alive and
> well in Catholicism, while Protestants tend to look at everything more
> rationally. Fatima probably couldn't happen in Minnesota. Look at the
> perspectives on the sacrament of Communion. For Catholics, the bread and wine
are
> mystically transformed into the body and blood of Christ. Protestants, with
their
> firm basis in reality, reject this idea and Communion becomes a ceremony of
> remembrance. This shift in belief probably also leads more readily toward
> agnosticism and atheism (and a general sense of doubt and intellectual
> uneasiness), but that's another post.
>
> Michael
>
>
stories of the Lotus Sutra, so its not wierd to think that may be why i love
parables and fables so much, since parables are an important part of Buddhism.
The mysticism of Catholics im only sort of familliar with..more by hollywood
than by reality. I wonder what Marquez and the rest think of Catholicism? I
wonder to what extent the Bible influences them on a strictly literary sense.
Michael Lennox
folklore, is lacking. What role do parables and stories play for the Buddhist? How
do they compare to the parables of Jesus?
As far as Marquez and the rest, I'm sure some clever graduate student has done a
paper on how Catholic mysticism informs magical realism. Now to find it . . .
I think that we often forget how deeply religion is woven into the fabric that is a
social psyche. If you want to understand why things are the way they are in the
United States, you only need to look at the Puritan influence, even in a largely
secular nation.
Michael
wolfe...@uswest.net
Michael Lennox <mle...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> I must confess, that my knowledge of Buddhism, particularly as it relates to
> folklore, is lacking. What role do parables and stories play for the
Buddhist? How
> do they compare to the parables of Jesus?
>
> As far as Marquez and the rest, I'm sure some clever graduate student has
done a
> paper on how Catholic mysticism informs magical realism. Now to find it . . .
>
> I think that we often forget how deeply religion is woven into the fabric
that is a
> social psyche. If you want to understand why things are the way they are in
the
> United States, you only need to look at the Puritan influence, even in a
largely
> secular nation.
>
> Michael
>
Indian society at the time of Shakyamuni (or Siddartha or what ever you want
to call him) was primarily oral-tradition based, so parables were a very
memorable teaching method. Also since the parable doesnt really require a
great deal of education to understand, it allowed Buddhist thought to be
taught to a wide variety of classes. Lateron, the use of parables in the
various sects of Buddhism remained ( to this day, in fact) an essential
method of teaching. how they compare to Biblical parables is difficult to say
because my knowledge of the Bible is weak. But I have heard, several times
that the parable of the prodigal son is very similar to one in the Lotus
Sutra. I cant say for sure if that is a direct relation or just a
synchronicity of ideas. Anyway, ill tell you one breif Buddhist parable to
give an example of what theyre like (and by the way im not positive what the
origin of the story is, but here goes)
a traveler goes to hell, and sees horrific suffering. all around the people
there are tons and tons of food, but everyone is starving because the
chopsticks are all five feet long and no one can reach their own mouths.
later the same traveler went to heaven, and just like hell, theres a ton of
food,and five foot chopsticks as well, but here every one is well fed because
they feed each other.
cool story eh? you could get technical and say it refers to the state of
bodisatva as superior to the world of hunger, but basicly, its like hell is
isolation and heaven is cooperation. anyway, pardon my preaching.
(by the way, wolfelounge and jhenninger are both me. i try to keep it all
wolfelounge but i forget sometimes.)
Samantha
religion, but there are definitely elements of magical realism in her
works. Read _The Passion_ and _Sexing the Cherry_.
Samantha
Alan Hope
Samantha <wick...@idmail.com> wrote in article
<371FA295...@idmail.com>...
> Check out some Jeanette Winterson. Not really sure how she relates
to
> religion, but there are definitely elements of magical realism in
her
> works. Read _The Passion_ and _Sexing the Cherry_.
If you read Oranges Are not the Only Fruit you'll find out how she
relates to religion.
AH
Camille E Kea
Michael Lennox <mle...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:371E3FE2...@mindspring.com...
>Look at the
> perspectives on the sacrament of Communion. For Catholics, the bread and
wine are
> mystically transformed into the body and blood of Christ. Protestants,
with their
> firm basis in reality, reject this idea and Communion becomes a ceremony
of
> remembrance.
>
so much adoration of Christ through statues and, more importantly, the
Crucifix, is because Christ is "still on the cross," whereas in other
Christian faiths, he has definately died, been risen, and is waiting to
welcome the faithful into Heaven. Has anyone elese heard this?
I'm Catholic/Christian and have never connsidered the Catholic Crucifix as
anything more than a lasting reminder...oh. Nevermind.
Camille
Michael Lennox
<snip>
>
> Indian society at the time of Shakyamuni (or Siddartha or what ever you want
> to call him) was primarily oral-tradition based, so parables were a very
> memorable teaching method. Also since the parable doesnt really require a
> great deal of education to understand, it allowed Buddhist thought to be
> taught to a wide variety of classes. Lateron, the use of parables in the
> various sects of Buddhism remained ( to this day, in fact) an essential
> method of teaching. how they compare to Biblical parables is difficult to say
> because my knowledge of the Bible is weak. But I have heard, several times
> that the parable of the prodigal son is very similar to one in the Lotus
> Sutra. I cant say for sure if that is a direct relation or just a
> synchronicity of ideas.
I've heard some scholarly speculation that Jesus got many of his ideas while
travelling through the east, perhaps venturing into the edges of India. That makes
Christianity a weirdcool blend of Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism teachings. But
we'll never know.
> Anyway, ill tell you one breif Buddhist parable to
> give an example of what theyre like (and by the way im not positive what the
> origin of the story is, but here goes)
>
> a traveler goes to hell, and sees horrific suffering. all around the people
> there are tons and tons of food, but everyone is starving because the
> chopsticks are all five feet long and no one can reach their own mouths.
> later the same traveler went to heaven, and just like hell, theres a ton of
> food,and five foot chopsticks as well, but here every one is well fed because
> they feed each other.
Very cool. I don't know of any parables from the Nazarene that explicitly emphasize
cooperation, or I'd sum one up here.
m.
Michael Lennox
Catholics emphasize the dying part of the story and display the crucifix, while
Protestant churches display empty crosses to emphasize the 'He is risen' part
of the story.
Eastern Orthodox belief has a further, cool twist to the story involving the
Virgin Mary. She didn't die. She is sleeping and awakes at the Final Judgement.
Hmm. It would be quite interesing to find a comparable genre to magical realism
among the Eastern Orthodox cultures. Gogol's "The Nose" immediately leaps to
mind (not quite the same, but it leaps to mind).
m.
wolfe...@uswest.net
Michael Lennox <mle...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> It would be quite interesing to find a comparable genre to magical realism
> among the Eastern Orthodox cultures. Gogol's "The Nose" immediately leaps to
> mind (not quite the same, but it leaps to mind).
>
> m.
>
promise. Anyway, He was Russian, but i dont know his religious background.
Maybe Eastern Orthodox originaly. Anybody know?
>
--
Jason Henninger
"You're free to come and go, or talk like Curtis Blow."
Michael Lennox
I'm not overly concerned about his actual beliefs, more in the tenor of belief in
the cultural surroundings. Magical realism as a parallel to specific social
influences, that sort of thing. I smell research.
m.